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BuzzJack Music Forum _ Eurovision Song Contest _ Russia · Eurovision Song Contest 2017
Posted by: Ryan. Nov 25 2016, 10:19 PM
Russia
Julia Samoylova - Flame Is Burning
Posted by: Ryan. Nov 25 2016, 10:19 PM
We've heard very little from Russia regarding their plans for Eurovision 2017, the first proper rumour only arriving this week. Said rumour surrounds Nargiz Zakirova, who has been rumoured in previous years too, after an Instagram post from her producer teasing something special for 2017. The Russian station in charge of selecting their entrant this year is the one that broadcasts The Voice, and have chosen Dina Garipova and Polina Gagarina in previous years (former winner and current judge respectively) assuming they use the Belgian rotation system - not 100% sure on that.
http://wiwibloggs.com/2016/11/24/russia-will-nargiz-zakirova-sing-eurovision-2017/157559/
There's also rumblings that Aminata Savadogo could be in consideration if her appearance in The Voice Russia continues to go swimmingly and a male artist who I've forgotten the name of is the only other name on the rumour mill so far. I'm sure Russia will want to put up something super competitive in Kyiv, although I imagine the selected artist will need a strong exterior to cope with what is surely going to be quite a negative atmosphere in the IEC during their performance.
Posted by: AdamAloud Nov 25 2016, 11:35 PM
She's been eliminated.
Posted by: Inna Selez Nov 28 2016, 07:43 PM
They need to send some tough band with funny song, somebody who will not care about booing or even some small accidents.
Posted by: LexC Feb 3 2017, 01:54 AM
So the speculation about the Russian entry has centered around this 'shortlist' that seems to have been kinda confirmed but not officially or anything. These be the five names in the mix
Aleksander Panaytov (five time Russian NF entrant back when they used to do NFs and recent runner up in The Voice of Russia)
Elena Temnikova (former lead singer of everyone's favorite Hot Russian Pussy collective, Serebro)
Daria Antonyuk (winner of a different season of The Voice of Russia)
Nyusha (the one who read out the Russian jury votes in ESC 2016 and also quite a big name in the Russian pop scene)
Soprano Turetskogo (some bevvy of Russian operatic whores)
I imagine they'll be focused a lot on 'lets just focus on getting good press and not draw too much attention to the whole Ukraine thing' so my best guess is they'll go with Daria with the regulation Swede-penned peace ballad they do every other year. They've certainly got good options to pick from at the very least.
Posted by: Conderella Feb 3 2017, 07:53 AM
I always wonder when they will send Nyusha. She's been around for ages and is pretty popular here.
Posted by: djgrafdemon Feb 7 2017, 07:58 PM
yeah, I guess this time Russia will try to decrease the pressure and send smb like Darya Antonyuk who's actually a 'no-name star' in relation to other contestants and has no detractive info in mass media.
As for Nyusha, she's just a big name (so-so) in our pop scene and nothing else, doubt she'll be one of the ESC contestants.
Like I remember, she was thumbs down on her joining the ESC team like Sergey Lazarev 3 or 4 years ago.
Posted by: Ryan. Feb 22 2017, 11:31 PM
Looks like only Daria Antonyuk remains from the shortlist, everyone else has ruled themselves out including Panayatov who I think was the clear favourite. Although Nargiz has returned to the rumour list as she has a spare May going.
Daria with a Swedish peace ballad seems about right I think!
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 4 2017, 01:33 AM
There's still ongoing rumours that a withdrawal/boycott could be on the cards for Russia this year, it will apparently be discussed in a TV show next week. I hope they don't withdraw as I assume they have something lined up ready to go if they do continue with participating!
Posted by: Conderella Mar 4 2017, 09:07 AM
The broadcaster actually hasn't commented on this yet. It's the initiative of some politicians (yes, they don't really have anything to do but shove their fat noses into other people's business in areas that shouldn't concern them whatsoever), the loudest of whom being the same 'person' (i would personally choose 'rotting piece of inhuman garbage') who proposed that gays were burned alive. So go figure. Another person supporting this is Philipp Kirkorov, a producer and former Eurovision representative from the 90s. This one is butthurt by the juries not giving Lazarev the win last year because apparently people were voting for Jamala due to her country's alleged anti-Russian direction in politics. About the same reaction as many brits had when Jade placed 'only' 5th in 2009. Butthurt privileged f***s who don't know how things work. Except this time most of them are actual politicians. Butthurt unsexed stupid old men.
good news is at least so far Kremlin doesn't give a f*** either way so the broadcaster can PROBABLY decide on their own.
P.S.: i used the word butthurt a lot. But it's the closest thing that could describe them so yeah
Posted by: Conderella Mar 4 2017, 09:10 AM
Alexrange can i get a what what
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 6 2017, 03:29 PM
Withdrawal now seems unlikely again, apparently that "debate" has been indefinitely delayed and their 2017 artist could be revealed on the same show this week.
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 7 2017, 11:22 PM
So apparently Channel One now have their representative ready and it is apparently a female!
Posted by: AdamAloud Mar 12 2017, 06:10 PM
Supposedly coming within the hour according to ESCKaz!
Posted by: djgrafdemon Mar 12 2017, 07:32 PM
Yulia Samoylova is confirmed.
The song's called 'Flame Is Burning'.
No other info about the song, same about the singer. Idk who she is actually.
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 12 2017, 07:35 PM
She was apparently the runner-up on X Factor Russia in 2013. I admire what I'm reading of her story but the song was extremely middle of the road, I think Russia are struggling to qualify for the first time with this.
Posted by: Mateja Mar 12 2017, 07:35 PM
She was on Russian X Factor in 2013. She is severely disabled, in a wheelchair.
https://static.life.ru/posts/2016/10/924013/a20128f5bd65142e38e1310b30b89fe1__980x.jpg
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 12 2017, 07:38 PM
Here we are!
Posted by: eurovision4ever Mar 12 2017, 07:43 PM
Absolutely awful.
Posted by: Martyn Mar 12 2017, 07:44 PM
It's hard to not see this as a cynical ploy for votes on Russia's part
Posted by: Martyn Mar 12 2017, 07:44 PM
It's hard to not see this as a cynical ploy for votes on Russia's part
Posted by: eurovision4ever Mar 12 2017, 07:44 PM
Absolutely awful. First time in 5 years I've not liked the Russian entry
Posted by: Mateja Mar 12 2017, 07:51 PM
Yeah, I don't know. It looks like Russia has no intention to win Eurovision this year.
Posted by: Conderella Mar 12 2017, 08:00 PM
Yeah, quite hard to not see the political undertones in this. It's not like she's an incredible vocalist too, from what I know. Hopefully it's not true and she was chosen on her own merit though (or by giving a sum of money needed for participation to the right people - this is still better than the 'please don't boo us, she's in a wheelchair' scenario).
The song is as beige as it can get. Embarrassing even.
Posted by: djgrafdemon Mar 12 2017, 08:03 PM
gosh, my ears are bleeding.
that pronunciation 
okay, there's enough time to improve her skills.
btw, I find this kinda worrying - back vocals often do a disgusting disservice to songs and singers. As for this one, back vocals RUINED all the attempts of charming.
Posted by: ScottyEm Mar 12 2017, 08:03 PM
I indeed hope this was something she wanted to do but it feels sort of cruel to be given such a poor, dated song. They'll still qualify and do ok in the final I think though.
Posted by: J▲hq Mar 12 2017, 08:06 PM
It feels rather uncomfortable to me. Awful
Posted by: Conderella Mar 12 2017, 08:07 PM
At least she's not getting THAT much hate on russian forums. Because pretty much EVERYTHING is hated by internet Russians. Jamala is STILL getting called VERY offensive names to this day quite regularly. :')
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 13 2017, 02:10 PM
Turns out Yulia is on this so-called Russian artist blacklist in Ukraine after performing in Crimea without entering through Ukrainian borders.
Posted by: djgrafdemon Mar 13 2017, 02:20 PM
This is what provocation smells like.
Just let it go, I mean there're obviously a lot of fans of delving into dirty laundry, and it just became a thing - tryna looking for some sh!t to hit the fan.
Posted by: djgrafdemon Mar 13 2017, 02:29 PM
well, according to Channel One who's responsible for all the things related to Eurovision in Russia, they were "looking for the singer with certain biography"
and there's too much ways to treat these words, honestly I can't give any specific comments right now 
Posted by: Qassändra Mar 13 2017, 03:29 PM
Everything about this is OUTRAGEOUS! I LOVE IT, cynical song and ALL! *.*
Posted by: Iz~ Mar 13 2017, 03:54 PM
The AUDACITY of the Russian delegation. It's musically terrible and yet they can't lose, if it bombs, we're awful people.
I feel for her.
Posted by: djgrafdemon Mar 13 2017, 05:46 PM
THIS
p.s. *cough* Poland 2015 *cough*
Posted by: Liаm Mar 13 2017, 06:06 PM
The song for me is just very bland, which suppose does verge on awful 
I feel it's trying to be 100% safe but ending up with a probable DNQ. Of course it is quite awful they are going as far as using a severely handicapped woman for votes regardless of the song's merit, or rather lack thereof :/
Posted by: Umi Mar 13 2017, 06:10 PM
p.s. *cough* Poland 2015 *cough*
I can't figure out if the performance will be more or less geared towards sympathy votes than Poland in 2015. That was... really pushing it.
I've seen quite a few comments about this along the lines of "Who says disabled people can only compete for sympathy?!" and it's like, OK, but if the theme of the performance is literally just "Here is the singer in a wheelchair; nothing else will be happening" then I'm going to question the motivation for that.
Posted by: LexC Mar 13 2017, 06:43 PM
I've seen quite a few comments about this along the lines of "Who says disabled people can only compete for sympathy?!" and it's like, OK, but if the theme of the performance is literally just "Here is the singer in a wheelchair; nothing else will be happening" then I'm going to question the motivation for that.
I don't think it's even just the performance, it seems like it's the entirety of their marketing strategy!
And if the point of comparison is Poland 2015 then that stronger, more melodic and better sung song scored what would have been a paltry 10 jury points under the current system. And that's without all the "no way I'm voting for Russia" nefariousness that this would unfortunately be subject to.
Posted by: Qassändra Mar 13 2017, 06:56 PM
Poland 2015 was not more melodic or stronger. One of the dullest ballads ever sent to the damn contest.
Posted by: Conderella Mar 13 2017, 07:38 PM
Poland 2015 was good in studio form. Live not so much but it's a million times better than this atrocity.
Posted by: Hayzayy Mar 13 2017, 07:44 PM
This is both awful and hypnotizing. I don't know what to make of it.
Posted by: Inna Selez Mar 13 2017, 08:09 PM
Just small reminder with link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monika_Kuszyńska
I hope participation in contest already will be happy time for this girl. But still worried about her. Be strong!
Posted by: AdamAloud Mar 14 2017, 03:30 PM
Jon Ola Sand has said that it is up to the Ukrainian authorities whether Julia can enter the country for Eurovision.
This could get very ugly.
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 14 2017, 03:32 PM
That's a poor stance to take from the EBU, this is a singing competition and any singer that plays by the contest's rules as Julia does should be allowed to enter surely? I doubt Julia is going to be any kind of threat to Ukrainian security.
Posted by: Qassändra Mar 14 2017, 03:44 PM
She's arguably a political choice in and of herself though, given she's a vocal nationalist who's performed in Crimea post-invasion. This is about as close as the EBU surely ever GETS to saying "you know EXACTLY what you're playing at here"?
Posted by: djgrafdemon Mar 14 2017, 03:49 PM
apparently that's not that type of hype we want and expect about Eurovision.
Posted by: LexC Mar 14 2017, 05:55 PM
Jeez, I thought the "I know we just invaded another country and are persecuting gays but omg booing some teenage girls is so mean" strategy was cynically motivated but this is so crystal clear it's almost genius.
In fact I'd wager that they probably want to get kicked out so they have that as the marketing but don't need to bother putting the work in/probably can get away without paying a fine.
Posted by: Umi Mar 14 2017, 06:07 PM
The only other thing they could really advocate for would be moving the contest, though. If Ukraine don't allow her in the country then it's not the EBU's place to force that issue and her selection in the first place is what makes this more than a singing competition so the EBU really can't blame Ukraine for politicising this.
Posted by: Jerick Mar 14 2017, 06:24 PM
Russia made Georgia back down for 'We Don't Wanna Put In', I personally think it's about time they taste their own medicin. Ban her and make them change their entry (and hopefully they will withdrew)
Posted by: Inna Selez Mar 14 2017, 08:49 PM
Oh come on! There is 2 different situation.
Posted by: Hayzayy Mar 14 2017, 09:24 PM
Julia for the win 
I don't endorse Russian politics and her voice is kind of weak but I can't get that melody out of my head since yesterday She reminds me of that Austrian entry from last year (Zoe or something).
Posted by: Jerick Mar 14 2017, 09:43 PM
Maybe, but not entirely diffrent. Both situations were done with the sole purpose to provoke and make conflict. Political actions should be punished, with either a fine or a ban.
In this case I think the EBU should ask Russia to change their artist to avoid political situations with the Ukrainians, like the EBU asked the Georgians to change their entry in 2009. If they don't want to, they should withdrew, just like Georgia ended up doing.
Posted by: Conderella Mar 14 2017, 09:46 PM
Thing is, the Georgian entry broke the Eurovision rules while this crapfest of a song didn't. So two completely different situations. Therefore, on what grounds will they ask Russia to change the entry?
Posted by: Jerick Mar 14 2017, 09:57 PM
I know, two very diffrent situations done with the same intention! One broke the rules, the other didn't and that's not fair. Therefore the EBU should ask Russia to change artist to avoid problems with Ukrainian law.
Posted by: Conderella Mar 15 2017, 05:46 AM
I'm afraid the 'that's not fair!1' argument can't stand on its own and isn't reason enough.
Yes this is very cynical and they may be using Julia to make people feel sorry for her and therefore avoid boos and stuff but will that change anything on the whole? I don't think so. The situation with the list is a bit iffy but hell when have Russia been transparent and a team player?
Posted by: Jerick Mar 15 2017, 05:36 PM
It's the EBU, I think they can do whatever they want. They are after all the producer of this show. If EBU will allow an artist that clearly accept the invasion of Crimea to perform in Eurovision, that will make them look like they accept it aswell.
When thst's said, Julia will have problems entering Ukraine anyway with the ban list.
Posted by: Inna Selez Mar 15 2017, 08:03 PM
When thst's said, Julia will have problems entering Ukraine anyway with the ban list.
Ban list in 21 century? She is just a singer! Where is european tolerance and freedom?
Posted by: djgrafdemon Mar 15 2017, 08:33 PM
Oh hello, it's Double Standards calling.
Btw I can understand the situation with "breaking some Ukrainian laws" but come on - what laws are you talkin about when your country is so unstable? Which areas do you pay attention for when some shit's going on inside?
This controversy should end up ASAP.
Posted by: Jerick Mar 15 2017, 08:38 PM
Singers and artists have an huge influence on people, so she isn't just a singer. And until she publicly take a distance from the invasion of Crimea, she shouldn't be a part of a contest that is ment to unite Europeans.
Russia is the biggest threat to European tolerance and freedom.
Posted by: Conderella Mar 15 2017, 10:13 PM
All I am saying is that she isn't singing about how good it is Crimea is now part of Russia once again. I am sure at least SOME artists participating this year have publicly stated their stance on some controversial political issue. It's got nothing to do with Eurovision.
Posted by: Hayzayy Mar 16 2017, 01:39 PM
True! But I guess the problem is that she positioned herself on a controversial issue concerning the invasion of the hosting country
Then again, the song has nothing to do with it, but I feel like the problem is more about Ukranian authorities not accepting her to get into the country, it's not a matter of the Eurovision council banning her song whatsoever. That's two different subjects.
Posted by: AdamAloud Mar 19 2017, 07:58 PM
ESCKaz reporting that Julia will not be banned from entering Ukraine.
Posted by: LexC Mar 20 2017, 04:41 PM
And now they're reporting that the final decision hasn't been made but that the document that would ban her from entering has been drafted and that the head of the SSU (Ukrainian Security Service) believes that she should not be allowed to enter the country.
FUN FUN FUN!
Posted by: Martyn Mar 22 2017, 01:19 PM
Breaking news she is banned from entering the Ukraine.
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 22 2017, 01:30 PM
It has a full breaking news red banner on BBC, Russia have played this perfectly if this was their aim.
Posted by: gooddelta Mar 22 2017, 01:30 PM
Now what? A replacement entry or a withdrawal from Russia?
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 22 2017, 01:34 PM
I imagine definitely a withdrawal!
Posted by: Alex! Mar 22 2017, 01:36 PM
Ohmy. Wonder what they'll do.
Posted by: J▲hq Mar 22 2017, 01:39 PM
Ukraine saving our ears 
(And assuming they don't submit a replacement, even semi-finals *.)
Posted by: djgrafdemon Mar 22 2017, 02:28 PM
they just can't replace Julia cuz, lemme repeat it, "they were looking for the singer with specific life story" (c.)
well played, well played...
Posted by: AdamAloud Mar 22 2017, 02:32 PM
Not surprised by the ban at all, they knew what was going to happen when they picked her.
Posted by: Iz~ Mar 22 2017, 02:33 PM
They knew exactly what they were doing. Good riddance (and if it saves a country with a worse qualification record in semi 2, all the better).
Posted by: Liаm Mar 22 2017, 02:37 PM
Yeah I think it's what they wanted, I just feel sorry for Yulia being used in it all but then if she was chucked for being political she was probably happy to be part of the plan
Posted by: J▲hq Mar 22 2017, 04:00 PM
Yeah I knew there were doubts about whether they'd qualify anyway but at least this s*** definitely won't block something good anymore. Come through Switzerland!
Posted by: djgrafdemon Mar 22 2017, 07:15 PM
well, seems like Russia has withdrawn and even cancelled the live stream of EU2017 so it means total defeat...it's time to improve my English 
cuz I WILL watch it in spite of everything.
Posted by: Inna Selez Mar 22 2017, 07:39 PM
Shame... I heard she will represent Russia Eurovision 2018.
Posted by: Casahovah Mar 22 2017, 07:45 PM
All the more reason to vote for somewhere that hates Russia to win this year. TRIANA PARK COME THROUGH!
Posted by: djgrafdemon Mar 22 2017, 07:46 PM
Yep, she's promised to represent Russia next year according to First Channel and VGTRK who switch every year to arrange it all.
Posted by: gooddelta Mar 22 2017, 07:49 PM
*unless Ukraine do the double
(Which they won't)
It's a sucky situation, but Russia knew exactly what had the potential to happen here...
Posted by: Conderella Mar 22 2017, 08:05 PM
Ukraine COME THROUGH
just to see Russia being banned foreverrrr
HA at this entire thing. Circus in town *.*
Posted by: Hayzayy Mar 22 2017, 08:21 PM
Feel sorry for the poor girl, and her song was good.
Posted by: djgrafdemon Mar 22 2017, 08:48 PM
...she won't because Ukrainian autorities banned her for 3 years.
Ok, let's forget about it like it was scary dream or so. Don't wanna see any news related to my country and ESC anymore.
Posted by: AdamAloud Mar 23 2017, 02:18 PM
It's not over for Julia!
Eurovision Song Contest Executive Supervisor, Jon Ola Sand said: "We are continuing our dialogue with the Ukrainian authorities with the ambition to have all artists present to perform in host city, Kyiv, which is, of course, our preferred option. It is imperative that the Eurovision Song Contest remains free from politics and as such, due to the circumstances surrounding Julia’s travel ban, we have felt it important to propose a solution that transcends such issues. We have offered Channel One Russia the opportunity for Julia to perform live via satellite as it is the EBU’s intention that every broadcaster that has chosen to take part in the Eurovision Song Contest does so, as has been the case for all previous events in the contest’s history."
Frank-Dieter Freiling, Chairman of the Reference Group, the governing body of the Eurovision Song Contest, expressed his hope though, that the political leadership of Ukraine will not implement the travel ban and find a solution in line with the contest's slogan, Celebrate Diversity.
Posted by: Iz~ Mar 23 2017, 02:47 PM
Oh COME ON. They're just enabling Russia by doing that. And drawing more attention to the conflict in the actual show.
Posted by: Casahovah Mar 23 2017, 02:55 PM
So that blatant posturing means that they then get to compete at virtually zero expense?
lol piss off
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 23 2017, 04:29 PM
Ukraine's vice Prime Minster is now telling the EBU to consider that them even broadcasting Julia's performance would be illegal according to Ukrainian law.
I'm torn about the whole situation, for me it comes down to why did the EBU not ensure that all member countries would be able to send any artist prior to handing over hosting rights. Azerbaijan had agreed to lift their Armenian ban prior to their withdrawal so the EBU obviously did so that time, why not this time - unless they did get an agreement from all parties that Russia wouldn't send a blacklisted artist. But even then Julia wasn't on the so-called blacklist until these last few days.
Posted by: SevenSeize Mar 23 2017, 04:40 PM
just tell russia to get fucked so basically everything goes to plan for them + the mass sympathy vote they'll proabably get from it
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 23 2017, 04:43 PM
Am I right in thinking Russia pay more to enter this contest than some of the "big 5", if so that will be why the EBU are team Russia.
Posted by: danG Mar 23 2017, 04:52 PM
In which case why aren't Russia in the big five?
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 23 2017, 04:55 PM
I think Turkey were the same when they participated too, after all one of their stated reasons for withdrawal after 2012 was because of the "big 5" rule. I'm not quite sure the reasoning behind it, perhaps the EBU membership prices and Eurovision participation fees are two different things and the "big 5" are chosen from the former rather than the latter.
Posted by: *Tim Mar 23 2017, 04:56 PM
I'm torn about the whole situation, for me it comes down to why did the EBU not ensure that all member countries would be able to send any artist prior to handing over hosting rights. Azerbaijan had agreed to lift their Armenian ban prior to their withdrawal so the EBU obviously did so that time, why not this time - unless they did get an agreement from all parties that Russia wouldn't send a blacklisted artist. But even then Julia wasn't on the so-called blacklist until these last few days.
I don't think these situations are the same tho. Isn't Armenia completely banned in Azerbaijan? Not all Russian are banned in Ukraine as far as I know
Posted by: J▲hq Mar 23 2017, 04:56 PM
Backlash from giving a country such as Russia that privilege?
But I hadn't thought of it that way, even if they're the sixth biggest contributor behind the big 5, Ryan's theory sounds plausible
Posted by: Casahovah Mar 23 2017, 05:04 PM
I don't know if it's ever been confirmed but...potentially? (depends how much the Spanish economy might have bounced back over the last few years/if the Russian economy's taken a hit from the Obama administration's sanctions).
The main thing that I have an objection to though is that it means Russia then get to compete and spend virtually no money on flights/accomodation costs and that's grossly unfair on countries like Bulgaria who have to scrape enough money together just to be able to compete in the first place let alone spend while they're there.
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 23 2017, 05:04 PM
Yeah you are right in both cases, it's just the EBU had obviously talked with Azerbaijan early in that Eurovision season to ensure any Armenians would be able to enter the country to perform and Azerbaijan agreed they would be able to hence Armenia staying on the participation list until March where they pulled out following petitions in Armenia, citing safety worries as their reason (but they weren't banned).
The EBU haven't sorted out a similar agreement early in this Eurovision season to either ensure that a) any Russians would be able to enter the country to perform or b) to ensure that the Russian broadcaster wouldn't choose anyone that would break Ukrainian laws. It seems the EBU didn't sort out either of these possible two agreements and now this is the result!
Posted by: AdamAloud Mar 23 2017, 06:47 PM
Russia have rejected the EBU's proposal of a satellite link.
Thus, Yulia Samoylova's ban to enter the territory of Ukraine violates the rules of the contest. We consider the proposal of remote participation strange and reject it, since it, of course, contradicts the very meaning of the event, the strict rule of which is the live performance on the stage of the "Eurovision".
We believe that the European Broadcasting Union should not invent new rules for the Russian participant in 2017 and is able to hold a competition in accordance with its own rules, "the statement said.
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 23 2017, 07:05 PM
That will surely be it now, Russia will withdraw and throw a big strop but will return in 2018 - they value Eurovision too much unlike Turkey.
Posted by: J▲hq Mar 23 2017, 07:32 PM
I am living for that rejection and them ripping into the EBU
Will they still have a place on the CD do we reckon? It's a different type of situation to both Romania last year and Georgia in 2009
Posted by: Casahovah Mar 23 2017, 07:40 PM
It's for the best really. Means one of Denmark/Austria/Croatia/The Netherlands gets to have a slot in the final that they might not have got otherwise.
Posted by: gooddelta Mar 23 2017, 07:43 PM
I'm glad they rejected it, somebody performing via satellite would have opened up such a can of worms for future contests and hardly promotes the unity that the contest is supposed to represent.
Yulia would have had a completely different experience to the other contestants and a number of unfair advantages and disadvantages - hardly would have made for a level playing field.
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 23 2017, 08:01 PM
Will they still have a place on the CD do we reckon? It's a different type of situation to both Romania last year and Georgia in 2009
It all depends on whether they've started making the CDs or not, same with the programme. I presume as the running order isn't out yet, they won't have started printing the programme so they won't be in that. I'm not sure if they'll have started making the CDs yet. The artwork was released saying "43 entries..." but as long as they haven't start being produced yet they will edit and leave them out.
Posted by: Cody Viall Mar 23 2017, 08:01 PM
"Celebrate Diversity" my ass
Posted by: popchartfreak Mar 23 2017, 08:10 PM
In the spirit of a fair and independent democratic process I'm sure we can expect wikipedia to release dirt on the other singers, some vote rigging from "sources unknown", followed by a long list of jury voters being assassinated one by one 
If people didn't want Russia to be humiliated they wouldnt have voted for Ukraine to win - well, technically, they didn't vote for Ukraine to win, if the phone vote is accurate....
Posted by: J▲hq Mar 23 2017, 09:05 PM
Yulia would have had a completely different experience to the other contestants and a number of unfair advantages and disadvantages - hardly would have made for a level playing field.
Satellite link for the qualifiers press conference too if they managed that? Jon Ola to draw a first half/second half slip on their behalf?
Posted by: Ryan. Mar 23 2017, 09:13 PM
Laptop sitting in Russia's part of the press conference table with Julia on Skype with her cup of tea and cookies?
Posted by: NicM82 Apr 1 2017, 12:21 AM
I hope very much that they can resolve this mess before May, however, if they can't, I hope Yulia rocks it next year with a totally awesome song. I will be keeping my fingers crossed and look forward to whatever they decide to do given that Russia always send a strong entry. I quite liked the song, though it wasn't my favourite and I don't think it was going to actually win, I was really intrigued to see what they would do with the staging and I admire her guts - given the state of relations between the two countries, volunteering to go is a big statement about how you feel and your hopes for the future which in this case have sadly not lived up to our dreams. I respect Yulia for wanting to go. I do totally feel sympathy with her, she's been given a raw deal out of what is really geopolitics - alas, I'm not in the least surprised.
Ukraine is to put it mildly, traumatised by the last few years. They have gone through two revolutions in ten years, the political system is riven with corruption and there are thousands still internally displaced by conflict. Added to the fact that thousands of their civil servants and military personnel changed sides instantly and they lost a substantial amount of their Navy and other military and security assets in the annexation. The Ukrainian Government has been on a war-footing since about March 2014 with all that entails, it was simply not consistent with human nature to expect them to be particularly rational about this. I am sure that NTU sought a work-around - which is what that satellite performance idea was about even though it was a completely preposterous idea and I am delighted that Russia told them to stuff it given the onerous precedents it establishes for future Contests. I can understand both sides, in the end a country has the right to decide who it chooses to have within its borders - particularly given the fact that Russia is not particularly democratic and might actually constitute a threat to the state's continued existence. Given these facts and the artist who is at the centre of this, it certainly doesn't make it at all right, but it does make it sadly predictable. It just underlines how desperately the two countries need a deal on where their borders actually are they can live with and make peace even if it is what will surely be an unsatisfactory peace to both sides.
Politics has always been a spectre in the Contest - it's absolutely wrong but it is human. I'll give a couple of examples, the Irish-UK bollocks through the '70s (look at the score-cards) and Armenia and Azerbaijan , their juries are permitted to blank each other every year no matter what is sent and it is very difficult to contend that Iveta was crap last year - unusual yes, crap no. Kicking Ukraine out of the Contest only rewards Russia and makes Ukraine feel more victimised and excluded than it already does - and it feels plenty victimised as it stands - and it is arguable how much Russia, at least at a state level, actually buys into the liberal values of the rest of Europe as a whole which are embodied by this Contest. Loosing chunks of your territory, fighting a war and getting kicked out of international cultural festivals is a heavy price to pay for simply wanting your state to run better, which is basically what Maidan was about. A solution would be a temporary wave of the visa rule for a fortnight for 'exceptional circumstances' so Yulia can enter Kyiv at lunchtime Friday 28th April, rehearse the song, perform and then leave at lunchtime on Sunday 14th so long as she doesn't leave the Kyiv city limits and has an escort, its not a good compromise, but its a compromise that I'm sure that both the organisers (rather than the Government and Russia's delegation are prepared to live with to get this thing done). Hell, make Jamala escort her - she caused the mess, make her fix it.
I do find '1944' a very moving entry and I do think its important to include songs which are of a variety of genres and reflect the experience of different groups, of whatever sort in the Contest. It is a tremendous shame that it happens to be a disabled woman who has come out the victim of this affair. There is good evidence to suggest that internet searches on forced deportations in the Soviet Union increased dramatically at the time of the Contest last year and it's worth mentioning that Russia did grant Ukraine 10-points in its public vote - clearly the Russian people understood what the song was about and accepted it on its own terms, as part of their history too, just as the UK would accept a song about the Potato Famine or the Easter Rising or Spain on the Reconquista. It would be uncomfortable but necessary listening. We learn and grow as a society and a continent by facing up to our failings as well as our triumphs and hopefully it got people talking - I know it did amongst some acquaintances of mine in the UK.
This is in the hands of politicians ultimately - it is for politicians, not the artists themselves, to fix this mess before it becomes a permanent festering sore - which might be precisely the point, given that Yulia is the perfect potential victim if you wanted to claim Ukraine was full of fascists which pretty much sums up Putin's arguments since Maidan. Wave the bloody travel ban and pretend that this is not a problem for a fortnight, because let's face it, Ukraine is not going to back-down to threats, they are ex-Soviet and made of sterner stuff, much of the Second World War was fought over their territory, they endured some of the worst of the Civil War and Stalin, they are the heir to the Cossacks, to suggest they'd back down over a threat to exclude them is silly - they'll call that threat, they are just that pissed off. Both Governments are clearly exploiting this situation for their own game of petty point-scoring, at the expense firstly of Yulia which is inexcusable, which will then end up turning a further bucket of poo on Jamala's head, who had been bad-mouthed quite enough - she won under the rules, tough if you don't like it, I absolutely detest Rybak's winner, we invalidate or diminish one winner, we diminish them all and we have no Contest, we don't get to pick and choose which results count after a winner is announced. All of this screams slippery slopes to me. Given the divisions in the Continent, involving everybody becomes more important, not excluding countries.
Looking at the thing quite calmly, probably without intending, Jamala has opened up a fascinating discussion on the role of free-speech in the Contest and just what constitutes 'politics', as well as acknowledging that reducing the song to just a statement would sell it short. We do not want a situation that we are sending bland and anodyne songs to the Contest just to avoid the risk of trouble - that only preferences countries that do IKEA pop particularly well. Conceivable the UK is allowed next year to sing a song about why we chose Brexit or Ireland about the Potato Famine, Armenia about their Genocide (presumably fine now Turkey is gone) and Israel about the Holocaust. This is a discussion we need to have if the Contest is to remain both viable without tit-for-tats between countries that don't like each other and to maintain artistic integrity. From the point of view of artistic merit, this might be good, the problem is whether it becomes about airing Europe's dirty laundry. We need to be honest and upfront with that problem and review the rules on free expression. It's also possible a total review of the rules might now be called for given that the competition is changing out of all recognition from the one originally conceived by Marcel Bezençon (I know that Poli Genova has suggested they look at the number of bodies on the stage rule). Weirdly, this whole nasty affair might have done us a favour by pushing the rules as far as they would go without buckling completely and showing just how elastic the structures are. Perhaps NTU assumed that The Hardkiss would win selection, I think most people probably did until Jamala opened her mouth and sang on Semi 1 of Ukraine's NF. The results issue is a non-sequitur really, EBU agreed to change the rules on how the points are generated and counted, they should be prepared for a situation where somebody wins on points total and not winning a category and I suspect that won't turn out to be a one-time event and frankly, I can't see given that the most of the Big Five are reliant on jury votes for points and they pay for the Contest, the Reference Group choosing to preference public votes or downgrade juries by some other way. In a weird way, though this does force us to ask a lot of difficult and delicate questions and though Yulia might be disadvantaged this time, we should at least, with a bit of luck, end up with a fairer system in the long-run and I'm sure that Russia would be keen on anything that ensures the Contest strengthens, not weakens.
Additionally, it also opens out questions of financial contributions as Russia has become a major power in this competition and has influence. Is it now allowed to leverage that influence to have rules changed in its favour? We can assume that the next time Russia wins, which is only a matter of time given the calibre of entries they consistently send, that Ukraine will drop out? Sad, but probably for the best - these two countries don't even exchange Ambassadors anymore, Switzerland does a lot of diplomacy on their behalf which is just something they do.
In the end, it all depends on Russia - does it believe in the concept of a Contest driven by a combination of hedged-bets - a jury system and public votes at all and how comfortable is it really with the idea of a competition where one of the main demographics is gay men? Leaving aside the lady and song in-question, Russia has a decision ahead of it, does it see itself as part of the Contest when the Contest's values are moving beyond how far it is prepared to go internally? I would say the same question is true of Belarus and to a lesser extent Azerbaijan which is also quite authoritarian. Decisions need to be made - the future of the Contest might rely on it, especially if the concept of the Big Five begins to recede into the past.
All that we can be sure off is that there are absolutely no easy solutions in what is really just a symptom of a far bigger problem which desperately has to be solved - quickly....
Posted by: Hayzayy Apr 1 2017, 02:11 PM
As much as I kind of like her song, I hope she doesn't make it to the show this year or the public vote is going to be so biased, everyone is going to vote for her being banned in the first place. And the song don't deserve the win really.
Posted by: LexC♀ Apr 13 2017, 04:04 PM
Channel One are saying they won't be broadcasting the contest, which seems like as much confirmation as any that they're withdrawing.
Posted by: AdamAloud Apr 13 2017, 04:19 PM
LASHA TUMBAI
Posted by: Umi Apr 13 2017, 05:07 PM
I'm OK with this.
Posted by: Ryan. Apr 13 2017, 05:13 PM
Now official:
https://eurovision.tv/story/russia-unable-to-participate-2017-ebu-statement
Posted by: Umi Apr 13 2017, 05:18 PM
How much does this hurt countries like Belarus in the semi?
Posted by: ScottyEm Apr 13 2017, 05:24 PM
Isn't Belarus dead on arrival already? Can't see it coming even close to qualifying.
Posted by: Ryan. Apr 13 2017, 05:27 PM
I imagine it only hurts Belarus massively. All the Caucasus countries are in semi 1, Moldova are in semi 1, Ukraine are in the final and Estonia have distanced themselves from Russia. Bulgaria would've been on for big points but they were sailing through anyway. Lithuania and Israel may have been on for some minor points based on their voting histories but can't imagine they would be getting 10s or 12s.
Do I think Belarus could miss out on qualifying by less than 24 points? Very possible But I maintain hope they will capture the audience like a Flor-de-lis did. Lithuania were never making it even with their diaspora vote and Bulgaria will be safe.
Posted by: LexC♀ Apr 13 2017, 05:28 PM
Depends which theorem you buy. Either they just lost out on 24 points or there's a whole heap of "missing" Russian diasporic votes in countries like Ukraine, Israel and the Baltic states that can very easily make Belarus their new home (like how some people argue that it was Turkey not qualifying that gave Azerbaijan the televote win in 2011).
Posted by: LexC♀ Apr 13 2017, 05:31 PM
That said, Belarus is going to pick up a metric tonne of televotes from all over the map on the same basis that Loin D'ici did last year of being charming and adorable (plus I've heard rumors that their staging involves FLYING which I cannot wait to see if that's the case) so I still think they'll qualify with relative ease.
Posted by: Ryan. Apr 13 2017, 05:31 PM
Indeed a good point that very much plays to Bulgaria's strength in particular you would think, particularly once we are in the final!
Posted by: LexC♀ Apr 13 2017, 05:36 PM
I mean it depends on how much Bulgaria play up the marketing to Russian speakers in the East between now and the final but it's certainly possible (and if they do I reckon that's a sign that they're prepared to really challenge for the victory).
Posted by: Catderella Apr 13 2017, 07:25 PM
The song is catchy and should have a good response from the viewers unless they get the staging completely wrong which i doubt.
Posted by: ScottyEm Apr 13 2017, 08:04 PM
I've anticipated Belarus in bottom three in the final. It's messy and dirgey with no major hook to latch on to, I don't know what you guys are hearing that I'm not! Not singing in English isnt an advantage either (I'm aware Italy will likely win, btw, so. Slight contradiction but still...).
Posted by: Ryan. Apr 13 2017, 08:12 PM
Surely Belarus has arguably the biggest hook amongst all 42 entries? Yes it's short and it's repetitive but if there's anything you are going to remember song-wise after all 18 performances it will be "HEY HEY HAYAYAYAYO"
Posted by: Iz♀ Apr 13 2017, 08:17 PM
Belarus will surely be rousing and I'm going to buy that Russian diaspora line latching on to it because that would be just perfect.
Bye bye Russia, see you in 2018... apparently with Julia back. Not sure I buy that.
Posted by: Catderella Apr 13 2017, 08:44 PM
And this logic is why we are losing soul and traditional elements in Eurovision more each year.
Singing in the native language makes it so much more likeable and likely to succeed really since, believe it or not, the majority of people watching the contest don't speak English. At least not well enough to get the meaning of the song. Also sometimes you can tell if someone's performance feels forced because of the difficulty to tell the story using translated lyrics.
There's no contradiction at all there btw because the language isn't a make or break factor in the slightest.
MAKE EUROVISION MULTILINGUAL AGAIN~
Posted by: ScottyEm Apr 13 2017, 09:04 PM
Singing in the native language makes it so much more likeable and likely to succeed really since, believe it or not, the majority of people watching the contest don't speak English. At least not well enough to get the meaning of the song. Also sometimes you can tell if someone's performance feels forced because of the difficulty to tell the story using translated lyrics.
There's no contradiction at all there btw because the language isn't a make or break factor in the slightest.
MAKE EUROVISION MULTILINGUAL AGAIN~
I'm putting my opinions about the song to one side on this. I don't see how singing in a language which is only fully or partially recognised in 4 other countries makes it likeable? English is a second language in the majority of EU countries. I agree you could argue that is may seem the contest is becoming homogenised, but the bottom line is that entries want to win (I don't put the UK in this category, we just want to yield sufficient to viewers) so why not sing in a universally understood language.
If it qualifies, then egg on my face. But I don't see it even coming close.
Posted by: LexC♀ Apr 13 2017, 09:05 PM
Just the idea that the song with the highest tempo of all this year's songs is 'dirgey' and that it doesn't have a hook when I'm struggling to think of a song this year with a hook that is more catchy or universal.
I literally can't even.
Posted by: Catderella Apr 13 2017, 09:46 PM
If it qualifies, then egg on my face. But I don't see it even coming close.
I am not saying it's likeable because being Russian and all I can understand some of the lyrics, but it has special charm to it in this form which I am very much attributing to the language among other things.
Of course entries want to win. But how hard is it to try to appeal to the lowest common denominator yet still bringing something special to the entry which no other country or person can? How many people like or even remember Believe from 2008? Or that Azerbaijan song that won? (I genuinely can't recall the name)
Posted by: ScottyEm Apr 13 2017, 09:57 PM
I've heard the Belarus song on several occasions and can't recite the melody. Anyway it's an opinion, happy to be surprised and see how it translates on the night. It just feels very niche and not in a way that will resonate (like potentially Portugal).
Posted by: J▲hq Apr 13 2017, 10:21 PM
I think Belarus could sadly miss, but I'd have them as pretty borderline, 11th or 12th if the do DNQ. Malta, Ireland, San Marino, Croatia, Lithuania and Austria are the six I think will do worse than Belarus, could perhaps add Switzerland and then it depends how remembered Serbia and Macedonia are from the early draws
Whatever happened to that rule where you had to broadcast the contest, to be able to participate the following year? I'm sure it used to be a rule but I'm also not convinced it's been stuck to. Good riddance for this year at least
Has anyone worked out the song with the highest tempo of every Eurovision of the past few years (and what kind of record they have when it comes to qualification)??
Posted by: Ryan. Apr 13 2017, 10:58 PM
That broadcast to participate next year rule was scrapped a few years ago I believe although not sure if it was to allow a certain broadcaster in or what
Posted by: Jerick Apr 14 2017, 12:22 AM
Wasn't it scrapped so that Italy could return?
Posted by: Jerick Apr 14 2017, 12:22 AM
le double post
Posted by: Ryan. Apr 14 2017, 12:33 AM
Yes that would make sense! Apparently they didn't broadcast it in 2010 so I imagine the EBU would have bended over backwards to make sure a little rule like that wouldn't prevent an Italian comeback.
Posted by: Iz♀ Apr 14 2017, 12:12 PM
And, well, have you seen that ridiculous language where the EBU are condemning Ukraine for making a big deal out of this? They're going to want Russia back for sure in a similar way, no matter the 'rules'.
Posted by: ♀Cody Viall♀ Apr 14 2017, 07:20 PM
Ukraine2017: Celebrate Russia's Withdrawal
oops can't say you can celebrate diversity anymore
Posted by: Catderella Apr 14 2017, 09:13 PM
Oh there are plenty of russians living in ukraine
They will do
Posted by: Inna Selez Apr 19 2017, 06:52 PM
So next year if EBU will allow Russia to participate, Julia need to represent new song. Maybe try to sing in russian language?
Posted by: djgrafdemon Apr 19 2017, 09:02 PM
no way, it won't even sound attractive to English-speaking people. Russian language already was the object of ridicule, so why one needs to show it off again?
anyway, i'm 95% sure next year participant will be changed cuz O.Torvald's chances to win are kinda miserable probably? (despite their song sounds very refreshing and bracing compared to other contestants)
Posted by: Ryan. Apr 26 2017, 01:34 PM
Julia will perform at the Victory Day concert in Crimea on the evening of the first Eurovision semi-final, I think that may lose Russia some of the sympathy it may have had (although wiwibloggs are certainly still complete pro-Russia in their article).
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