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BuzzJack Music Forum _ News and Politics _ BBTory Bias

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 4 2019, 12:07 PM

A thread for egregious examples of pro government BBTory bias. We can't list every example as it never ends.

This week: Bojo got booed out of a hospital. BBTory buried the story. Corbyn was greeted at a hospital. BBTory: Corbyn is politicising the nhs. Sigh. I guess it's only not politicising it when you're privatising it. Complaining about privatisation is politicisation.

Posted by: Tones and Iz Nov 4 2019, 12:18 PM

Well, I posted this in the Labour thread but to rejoice in this thread let's put it here:

QUOTE

Corbyn hasn’t even been safe from the ‘bastion of independent journalism’ the BBC. The London Economic reported news that one of Britain’s leading barristers has evidence of BBC bias against Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/lawyer-speaks-out-over-bbc-bias-against-corbyn-as-evidence-of-coded-negative-imagery-emerges/12/12/since his election in 2015. Even this week, BBC Panorama produced what is widely regarded as a hatchet job on Jeremy Corbyn and anti-Semitism within the Labour party.


Oh, and by the way: the first person to respond with the 'well if both the right-wing and the left-wing complain about the BBC it must be in the middle' gets a VERY withering look.


Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 4 2019, 12:37 PM

Remember the Russian hat gate? BBTory cleared itself over it, and that is part of the problem! It dismisses criticism.

Posted by: JüpaHulaHula Nov 4 2019, 03:24 PM

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/jeremy-corbyn-is-the-most-smeared-politician-in-history/18/07/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/04/no-10-blocks-russia-eu-referendum-report-until-after-election

Need I say more? 😑

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 8 2019, 08:46 AM

https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyn-proposes-bbc-overhaul-as-part-of-labours-radical-media-plans-11479466?fbclid=IwAR2kp2O-6URs-Po3AvPhYa4isUfMoHfDkfNDyxSanFIaZpQ9JG-6C3fOYX4

Labour wants to completely reform it. BBTory have brought this on themselves!

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 11 2019, 12:52 PM

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-bbc-uses-old-footage-20858947?fbclid=IwAR0twxx7A2a_N3_tdmaGns_68n-xNh5DUXGWIUiKotIA_virpyLxLqwcqes

BbTory protecting Bojo again and also not reporting on the fact that Congress is talking about him as compromised by russian agents.

Posted by: Botchia Nov 11 2019, 10:13 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 8 2019, 08:46 AM) *
https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyn-proposes-bbc-overhaul-as-part-of-labours-radical-media-plans-11479466?fbclid=IwAR2kp2O-6URs-Po3AvPhYa4isUfMoHfDkfNDyxSanFIaZpQ9JG-6C3fOYX4

Labour wants to completely reform it. BBTory have brought this on themselves!


All decent suggestions tbf

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 15 2019, 02:05 PM

Very normal.


Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 15 2019, 02:19 PM

Oh my GOD. The state propaganda news channel has to go.

Posted by: Tones and Iz Nov 16 2019, 08:56 AM

Relevant Guardian opinion article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/15/tories-rightwing-press

QUOTE
It is the challenge of the left not simply to bemoan the power of the rightwing press, but to circumnavigate it. It is a bit like complaining about the right being better funded, or wealthy people buying access. It’s incontestable but it’s not going to change any time soon. It is as baked into the analysis of the system as privilege is baked into the system itself.


Sharing it because it's an interesting read about how devoid of democratic process our press is, but also to make a point that we need to be fighting back rather than just moaning about it. Grassroots campaigning and new media (from online print publications to a rise of video makers, we can share and drown out the noise of the reality-devoid right-wing points.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 16 2019, 11:15 AM

Labour has complained to Ofcom about the pro-Tory bias at Murdoch's Sky News!

It is hard ro fight against the anti-democratic FLOODS of misinformation and propaganda (and their ignoring of Tory gaffes/ problems). It takes over the discourse and brainwashes the simple-minded, thr gullible, and people who don't even have access to the internet to see our videos and left media in the first place! Look at common sense! He's completely far gone. Completely brainwashed.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Nov 16 2019, 11:27 AM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 16 2019, 12:15 PM) *
Labour has complained to Ofcom about the pro-Tory bias at Murdoch's Sky News!


Rupert Murdoch doesn't own Sky News. Fox sold its share in Sky last year.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 16 2019, 11:51 AM

I didn't know that. They haven't changed stance much though!!

https://www.businessinsider.com/former-troll-russia-disinformation-campaign-trump-2017-10?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=topbar&utm_term=desktop&referrer=facebook&fbclid=IwAR05ckABJsAMRkybbbrJz7lPlT9tVnL2WyK_FiPlRqRz9eARhDVN9LjXzvY&r=US&IR=T

This is what a Russian troll revealed about the troll farms. Umm has anyone checked common sense's ip location?? rotf.gif

Posted by: common sense Nov 16 2019, 03:18 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 16 2019, 11:15 AM) *
Labour has complained to Ofcom about the pro-Tory bias at Murdoch's Sky News!

It is hard ro fight against the anti-democratic FLOODS of misinformation and propaganda (and their ignoring of Tory gaffes/ problems). It takes over the discourse and brainwashes the simple-minded, thr gullible, and people who don't even have access to the internet to see our videos and left media in the first place! Look at common sense! He's completely far gone. Completely brainwashed.


Did someone mention me? biggrin.gif

Posted by: common sense Nov 16 2019, 03:19 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 16 2019, 11:51 AM) *
I didn't know that. They haven't changed stance much though!!

https://www.businessinsider.com/former-troll-russia-disinformation-campaign-trump-2017-10?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=topbar&utm_term=desktop&referrer=facebook&fbclid=IwAR05ckABJsAMRkybbbrJz7lPlT9tVnL2WyK_FiPlRqRz9eARhDVN9LjXzvY&r=US&IR=T

This is what a Russian troll revealed about the troll farms. Umm has anyone checked common sense's ip location?? rotf.gif



Okay time to come clean. I'm a RUSSIAN. ohmy.gif

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 18 2019, 12:24 PM




Absolutely no bias in this reporting at all — the tone is completely impartial.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 18 2019, 12:37 PM

The utter bias!! You can tell she's a Tory.

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 18 2019, 12:50 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 18 2019, 12:37 PM) *
The utter bias!! You can tell she's a Tory.




It really is tiring.

Posted by: Doctor Sleep Nov 18 2019, 06:45 PM

I don't watch BBC News anymore - Channel 4 News is a lot better plus they give an hour for the news which means that they can cover it in much more depth/detail.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 18 2019, 07:14 PM

People are asking C4 to investigate BBTory bias. It's bad. We have a state propaganda channel, just likr Russia, Iran and North Korea.

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 19 2019, 09:46 AM



She's not even pretending anymore, and the story linked doesn't actually mention any Tory candidate. He was suspended over alleged anti-semitic comments about the Holocaust. Is that not worth mentioning because it doesn't fit a particular narrative?

This, and the Peter Oborne https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/18/boris-johnson-lying-media?CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1574104702, go hand-in-hand.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Nov 19 2019, 10:48 AM

Bloody hell.

I didn't quite realise just how much of a nasty piece of work Laura Kuennsberg was until recently, but it really has become apparent with such crystal clarity.

She's being paid her £250k salary for what is supposed to be an "impartial" political commentator role, but she's essentially Boris Johnson's mouthpiece and she's ramping it up atm. Grim.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 19 2019, 11:49 AM

100% agreed. Grim is thr word. BBTory news just needs axing at this point. We don't need it, and this vile evil authoritarian proto-fascist Tory gkvernment has shown just how easily an authoritarian government can co-opt it and turn it into pro-government state propaganda. In the sea!

Posted by: TheSnake Nov 19 2019, 02:26 PM

So a lot of us here now prefer ITV equivalent Robert Peston (who a lot of people find annoying, a bit unfairly imo) to the BBC's Laura Kuennsberg. laugh.gif Never would have thought that in a million years!

QUOTE
She's not even pretending anymore, and the story linked doesn't actually mention any Tory candidate.


Where is the link for this story? unsure.gif


Posted by: blacksquare Nov 19 2019, 02:50 PM

QUOTE(TheSnake @ Nov 19 2019, 02:26 PM) *
Where is the link for this story? unsure.gif



Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 19 2019, 03:21 PM

Imagine if that were a Labour candidate!! BbTory would never stop. The Tories under Bojo have lurched so far right, these bnp nutjobs have joined - and their chickens have come home to roost.

Posted by: TheSnake Nov 19 2019, 03:22 PM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Nov 19 2019, 02:50 PM) *


Oh it wasn't showing up on my computer for some reason before...thanks for reposting.

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 19 2019, 03:45 PM

QUOTE(TheSnake @ Nov 19 2019, 03:22 PM) *
Oh it wasn't showing up on my computer for some reason before...thanks for reposting.


Oh, no, you hadn’t missed it.

Laura Kuennsberg didn’t post a story about it, just one about Labour.

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 20 2019, 09:26 AM


Laura Kuenssberg finds it ‘daft’ that people have an issue with the Tories rebranding themselves as ‘FactCheck UK’ during the debate. BBCRealityCheck are the only fact checker that haven’t responded. The other factcheckers condemned it as an attempt to mislead voters.

Fortunately, someone has been doing their job at the BBC.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Nov 20 2019, 06:52 PM

It’s refreshing to see people waking up to the walking propaganda outfit that is BBC News. We’ve been dismissed as being loons or cybernats for years now for correctly pointing out that BBC is a unionist Tory propaganda outfit and nothing more. BBC Scotland especially horrendous to the point that it’s now completely unwatchable. Thank god for STV

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 20 2019, 07:56 PM

QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Nov 20 2019, 06:52 PM) *
It’s refreshing to see people waking up to the walking propaganda outfit that is BBC News. We’ve been dismissed as being loons or cybernats for years now for correctly pointing out that BBC is a unionist Tory propaganda outfit and nothing more. BBC Scotland especially horrendous to the point that it’s now completely unwatchable. Thank god for STV


THIS!! It's state propaganda.

BBTory has been quoting a FAKE YOUTORY POLL THAT WAS RELEASED AN HOUR BEFORE THE DEBATES THAT CLAIMED BOJO WON, WITH A SAMPLE SIZE OF 100!!!!! Every other poll, with samples up to 30k each, have been massive victories for Corbyn, 70%, etc. YouTory published a fake poll and it's the only one BBTory used to inform their 'coverage'. Dystopian nightmare.

Posted by: Doctor Sleep Nov 20 2019, 08:45 PM

Can I just say how much I am enjoying 'Woke Oborne'? His article in the Guardian yesterday was class, and the rant at Kuenssberg's blatant bias on R2 the other week brilliant.



YES to Woke Oborne. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Nov 20 2019, 09:18 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 20 2019, 07:56 PM) *
THIS!! It's state propaganda.

BBTory has been quoting a FAKE YOUTORY POLL THAT WAS RELEASED AN HOUR BEFORE THE DEBATES THAT CLAIMED BOJO WON, WITH A SAMPLE SIZE OF 100!!!!! Every other poll, with samples up to 30k each, have been massive victories for Corbyn, 70%, etc. YouTory published a fake poll and it's the only one BBTory used to inform their 'coverage'. Dystopian nightmare.

Do you have sources for these assertions?

I saw some claims last night about the YouGov poll results supposedly being released before the debate had even started. I saw nothing that convinced me that the alleged tweet was actually put out at the time claimed. Even if it was, it could still have been a cock-up. It is likely that YouGov will have prepared a tweet for at least three possible outcomes of their poll - a near 50-50 split, a clear Corbyn win and a clear Johnson win. You cannot rule out the possibility that one of them was released in error. Similar things have happened before

Where did the sample size of 100 come from? YouGov, along with other major pollsters, are signed up to a code of conduct. Among other things, that should forbid claiming that a reliable result can be obtained from a sample as small as 100. Can you provide links to these other polls?


Posted by: vidcapper Nov 21 2019, 06:30 AM

QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Nov 20 2019, 06:52 PM) *
It’s refreshing to see people waking up to the walking propaganda outfit that is BBC News. We’ve been dismissed as being loons or cybernats for years now for correctly pointing out that BBC is a unionist Tory propaganda outfit and nothing more. BBC Scotland especially horrendous to the point that it’s now completely unwatchable. Thank god for STV


I'm assuming you are not referring to a voting system here? unsure.gif

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Nov 21 2019, 07:37 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STV_(TV_channel)

The independent holder of the ITV franchise in North & Central Scotland (notably not the tory leaning border region which is lumped in with Cumbria in ITV Borders) and is the only part of the Channel 3 network not owned and operated by ITV Plc. It carries a lot of ITV content but the news and current affairs are all programmed locally.

Posted by: vidcapper Nov 21 2019, 08:23 AM

QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Nov 21 2019, 07:37 AM) *
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STV_(TV_channel)

The independent holder of the ITV franchise in North & Central Scotland (notably not the tory leaning border region which is lumped in with Cumbria in ITV Borders) and is the only part of the Channel 3 network not owned and operated by ITV Plc. It carries a lot of ITV content but the news and current affairs are all programmed locally.


OK, thank you for the clarification.

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 22 2019, 10:22 AM



Well, well.

Posted by: Klaus Nov 22 2019, 10:36 AM

Reality Check is good and all but it’s nowhere near as prominent as it needs to be. It was there during the referendum and I’m sure (although don’t want to state this as a fact) that the BBC themselves were critical of the level of exposing false information in the referendum.

Just look at the most recent example with the man saying more than 50% of people in the UK earn more than £80,000 as I put in the other thread. The Reality Check has rightly stated he is in the Top 5%



However, how worthwhile is it posting this information 12 hours after the actual event, which was broadcast to potentially millions of viewers and then the clip was uploaded on their Twitter account without any statement that what he was saying was wrong, on a secondary account that may or may not be retweeted by the BBC News account. Particularly when all the information from reality check appears to be uploaded on social media accounts rather than broadcast on the TV.

There needs to be a reality check team on all political TV shows to immediately call out any false information.

Posted by: Tones and Iz Nov 22 2019, 02:09 PM

It may be a silly thing, but the name of Reality Check itself feels wrong. Too authoritative and paternalistic, which I feel puts people on the defensive when checking it - don't underestimate people's willingness to disagree with reality. They themselves can be okay but as shown today, often too late.

Full Fact is for my money a far superior fact checker.

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Nov 22 2019, 10:22 AM) *


Well, well.


Disturbing. That's the JOB of the supposed neutral news - to correctly say 'this person is lying', when they are - and, when they continually do so, to call them a liar. Indicative in that statement is that they would have to call Johnson at least a liar along with everyone else on the right perpetuating fake news, and they're not willing to do that.

God, imagine a universe where Johnson, or any future chancer, puts out a dodgy claim and in reporting on it, the BBC directly said after it 'Johnson has lied X times about similar subjects, you might find these links relevant'.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Nov 23 2019, 01:13 PM

It is being alleged that the person who asked the first question on Thursday's Question Time (standard edition, not the leaders' show last night) was a Tory councillor. Yet, only the previous week, the chair of Brighton and Hove Lib Dems was told she couldn't be in the audience because local party officers were barred from the show in election campaigns. Of course, the likelihood is that the person involved failed to declare that he was a councillor, in which case this should perhaps be in the Tory lies thread.

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 23 2019, 04:12 PM



Managed to keep the applause, though.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Nov 23 2019, 05:19 PM

There needs to be a root and branch review of the BBC from the top down. This is what I expect from the media in Russia, China and North Korea. Not a functioning democracy

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 23 2019, 05:21 PM

Our democracy has failed. Once you let the Tories in, they'll never get out. They have turned the BBTory into state propaganda.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 23 2019, 05:25 PM

They edited this and they edited the memorial day footage to protect him. Absolutely vile. Axe the BBTory!! Give Doc Who and Esstenders to ITV. They'll do a better job with them anyway.

Posted by: common sense Nov 23 2019, 05:42 PM

Don't see anything wrong with editing booing out. It's disrespectful to boo our newly elected PM so the BBC was right imo to edit it out. Nothing to see here folks.

Posted by: common sense Nov 23 2019, 05:43 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 23 2019, 05:25 PM) *
They edited this and they edited the memorial day footage to protect him. Absolutely vile. Axe the BBTory!! Give Doc Who and Esstenders to ITV. They'll do a better job with them anyway.



The memorial day editing was a genuine mistake and we've moved on since then.

Posted by: coi Nov 23 2019, 05:48 PM

I watched both of these clips again from the programmes where they were broadcast, the BBC News broadcast at 1pm is only a 12 minute programme and they would have only edited it to reduce the length of the clip - they cut out the bit where Johnson was stuttering and repeating himself so they can get straight to his answer, and they would have cut out the applause as well if the applause wasn't still going on when his full sentence started. They did the same for the applause after a question to Jo Swinson (cutting it out to get straight from the question to the answer), so I doubt it's bias but rather just clipping the video to fit in their short broadcast time.

Posted by: Klaus Nov 23 2019, 05:48 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 23 2019, 05:42 PM) *
Don't see anything wrong with editing booing out. It's disrespectful to boo our newly elected PM so the BBC was right imo to edit it out. Nothing to see here folks.

laugh.gif You’re the perfect pawn to live in a dictatorship.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 23 2019, 05:57 PM

An unelected oaf not fit for office who doesn't deserve any respect. At all. Enjoy your dictatorship x The BBTory has shown with this that what happened with the memorial footage was NOT a mistake, not that it ever COULD have been one, seeing as they had to delve deep into the archives for it.

Posted by: common sense Nov 23 2019, 05:58 PM

QUOTE(coi @ Nov 23 2019, 05:48 PM) *
I watched both of these clips again from the programmes where they were broadcast, the BBC News broadcast at 1pm is only a 12 minute programme and they would have only edited it to reduce the length of the clip - they cut out the bit where Johnson was stuttering and repeating himself so they can get straight to his answer, and they would have cut out the applause as well if the applause wasn't still going on when his full sentence started. They did the same for the applause after a question to Jo Swinson (cutting it out to get straight from the question to the answer), so I doubt it's bias but rather just clipping the video to fit in their short broadcast time.



See folks. The real explanation. Have just watched them again too and coi is spot on. The fact Jo was edited too means there was no bias and am sure the BBC will point that out.

Posted by: common sense Nov 23 2019, 05:59 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 23 2019, 05:57 PM) *
An unelected oaf not fit for office who doesn't deserve any respect. At all. Enjoy your dictatorship x The BBTory has shown with this that what happened with the memorial footage was NOT a mistake, not that it ever COULD have been one, seeing as they had to delve deep into the archives for it.



So are you saying the BBC tells lies too? rolleyes.gif

Posted by: common sense Nov 23 2019, 06:44 PM

Union leaders have reacted with dismay to the Conservatives proposing to introduce laws to prevent all-out rail strikes.

The party, which is due to unveil its manifesto on Sunday, has announced plans to legislate for minimum train services to run during industrial action in the event that it secures a majority government in the upcoming election.

Train operators and unions would be required to sign an agreement to run a minimum number of services in the event of strikes.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) trade union has pledged to lobby against any attempt to stop its members from going on strike.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Nov 23 2019, 07:10 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 23 2019, 05:58 PM) *
See folks. The real explanation. Have just watched them again too and coi is spot on. The fact Jo was edited too means there was no bias and am sure the BBC will point that out.

Somehow, I don't think the Daily Mail would have accepted that excuse if they had cut Jeremy Corbyn being booed.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Nov 23 2019, 07:34 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 23 2019, 05:43 PM) *
The memorial day editing was a genuine mistake and we've moved on since then.


Stop using "we" and "our" as if you speak for any of us, because you don't.

Posted by: vidcapper Nov 24 2019, 06:35 AM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 23 2019, 05:25 PM) *
They edited this and they edited the memorial day footage to protect him. Absolutely vile. Axe the BBTory!! Give Doc Who and Esstenders to ITV. They'll do a better job with them anyway.


You do remember that 'no adverts' is one of the BBC's main selling points?

Posted by: coi Nov 25 2019, 02:45 PM

QUOTE(coi @ Nov 23 2019, 05:48 PM) *
I watched both of these clips again from the programmes where they were broadcast, the BBC News broadcast at 1pm is only a 12 minute programme and they would have only edited it to reduce the length of the clip - they cut out the bit where Johnson was stuttering and repeating himself so they can get straight to his answer, and they would have cut out the applause as well if the applause wasn't still going on when his full sentence started. They did the same for the applause after a question to Jo Swinson (cutting it out to get straight from the question to the answer), so I doubt it's bias but rather just clipping the video to fit in their short broadcast time.




The response from the BBC seems to match up with what I said - and I said it first biggrin.gif

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 25 2019, 03:19 PM

Editing out one second of laughter still leaves a lasting impression, especially critical during an election. His response seemed far more confident than the reality. The BBC shouldn’t be making mistakes like this so often, intended or not. I’m unconvinced.



QUOTE
Compared to the Labour manifesto, Boris Johnson's plan for the country is a shopping list of promises, not an encyclopaedia of ambitions.


How is this impartial and balanced? It’s classic spin.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 25 2019, 06:10 PM

QUOTE(coi @ Nov 25 2019, 02:45 PM) *



The response from the BBC seems to match up with what I said - and I said it first biggrin.gif


Sooo why have they now apologised? wink.gif

Posted by: common sense Nov 25 2019, 06:16 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Nov 23 2019, 07:34 PM) *
Stop using "we" and "our" as if you speak for any of us, because you don't.



I mean us the general public and not all you Boris and Tory haters here.

Posted by: mald487 Nov 25 2019, 07:17 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 25 2019, 06:16 PM) *
I mean us the general public and not all you Boris and Tory haters here.


The general public consists of many different people with different opinions, you might speak for some of them but you certainly don't speak for many.

We don't like him because his actions and his party are despicable and he doesn't give a shit about vulnerable people on society.

It's not about "winning" or "losing", this isn't an episode of X Factor.

Stop being so bloody childish. You're what, 65?

Posted by: common sense Nov 25 2019, 07:21 PM

QUOTE(mald487 @ Nov 25 2019, 07:17 PM) *
It's not about "winning" or "losing", this isn't an episode of X Factor.

Stop being so bloody childish. You're what, 65?


mad.gif How rude. I'll be 60 in January and look nowhere near my age. biggrin.gif


Of course it's about winning or losing. All the parties refer to winning the election or winning a majority. No one likes a loser.

Posted by: T Boy Nov 25 2019, 07:25 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 25 2019, 07:21 PM) *
mad.gif How rude. I'll be 60 in January and look nowhere near my age. biggrin.gif
Of course it's about winning or losing. All the parties refer to winning the election or winning a majority. No one likes a loser.


You’d know, I guess.

Jokes aside, people don’t dislike someone just because they didn’t win something. They dislike them because they’re either utterly horrific as people or they will stop you getting what you want.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 25 2019, 07:27 PM

If you care about winning or losing, go watch X Factor. Leave politics to the young who care about FIXING THE COUNTRY, not bragging about "winning" on a few internet forums.

Posted by: mald487 Nov 25 2019, 07:58 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 25 2019, 07:21 PM) *
mad.gif How rude. I'll be 60 in January and look nowhere near my age. biggrin.gif
Of course it's about winning or losing. All the parties refer to winning the election or winning a majority. No one likes a loser.



The parties may "win" or "lose" but this isn´t one big game. A vote for Tory means years more austerity and hardship for many.

I have friends and family(degree educated) who are working harder than ever but are getting POORER. This wasn´t happening to them under Labour.

Of course this is an alien concept to you because you´ve NEVER had to lift a finger on your ADULT life. So forgive us if we take issue when you start to spout nonsense about how people shouldn´t be so greedy and should be happy with their lot when you literally get money for doing SWEET F.A.

Maybe if you had to actually get off the sofa and go and earn your crust for the pittance that many people get in return, then you would have a different view.

Posted by: common sense Nov 25 2019, 08:12 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 25 2019, 07:27 PM) *
If you can about winning or losing, go watch X Factor. Leave politics to the young who care about FIXING THE COUNTRY, not bragging about "winning" on a few internet forums.



Except us oldies have been around a bit longer, have more life experience and may know what's best for the country.

Posted by: T Boy Nov 25 2019, 08:16 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 25 2019, 08:12 PM) *
Except us oldies have been around a bit longer, have more life experience and may know what's best for the country.


Being older doesn’t mean you know any better. Having experience can mean anything and everyone’s experience is different.

I hate being in that in between age where I’m no longer ‘young’ but I still get condescended to by older people, I would have hoped that would have stopped by now.

Posted by: ElectroBoy Nov 25 2019, 08:21 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 25 2019, 08:12 PM) *
Except us oldies have been around a bit longer, have more life experience and may know what's best for the country.


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Never read such shit in my life

Posted by: mald487 Nov 25 2019, 08:28 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 25 2019, 08:12 PM) *
Except us oldies have been around a bit longer, have more life experience and may know what's best for the country.


How do YOU know what´s best for the country?? laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Times change, things move on, work differently.

Not wanting to go all Michael here but there are many young creative minds out there, whose ideas and concepts need a chance to be allowed to shine through.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Nov 25 2019, 08:39 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 25 2019, 08:12 PM) *
Except us oldies have been around a bit longer, have more life experience and may know what's best for the country.


OK boomer.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Nov 25 2019, 08:46 PM

Anyway, you don't even know your arse from a hole in the ground let alone what's best for the country.

Posted by: common sense Nov 25 2019, 08:51 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Nov 25 2019, 08:46 PM) *
Anyway, you don't even know your arse from a hole in the ground let alone what's best for the country.



You don't even know me. All you know is what you see typed on a screen. For all you lot know I may be a 25 year-old woman.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Nov 25 2019, 09:00 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 25 2019, 08:51 PM) *
You don't even know me. All you know is what you see typed on a screen. For all you lot know I may be a 25 year-old woman.


I think when you see thousands upon thousands of somebody's posts on an internet forum you get a pretty good insight into how their mind works, regardless of whether you know them or not.

But just because you're old doesn't automatically mean some of the things you come out with deserve to be given credence or that you have the wisdom of somebody younger than you.

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 27 2019, 03:18 PM



This is ridiculous. They should have had all leaders confirmed before airing any notoriously difficult Andrew Neil interviews. Another potential breach of impartiality.

Corbyn didn't perform well yesterday and he certainly didn't make any new fans. Sturgeon also struggled. I don't particularly enjoy the Neil style of interviewing, he routinely interrupts, but I knew that Johnson would have to deal with the same.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Nov 27 2019, 04:21 PM

I assume the BBC felt they had to go ahead with the earlier Andrew Neil interviews to avoid running out of time. Johnson has already wimped out the seven-way debate on Friday.

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 04:25 PM

My guess is that Boris won't do it which I suppose is his right. They may think he has nothing really to gain and plenty to lose by doing it as Neil can ask some awkward questions as showed with Corbyn. Someone on DS has emailed him daring him to ask Boris about the wrong DWP assessments and why so many appeals succeed.

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 27 2019, 04:29 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 27 2019, 04:21 PM) *
I assume the BBC felt they had to go ahead with the earlier Andrew Neil interviews to avoid running out of time. Johnson has already wimped out the seven-way debate on Friday.




It'll be interesting to see what happens here.

Posted by: mald487 Nov 27 2019, 04:31 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 04:25 PM) *
My guess is that Boris won't do it which I suppose is his right. They may think he has nothing really to gain and plenty to lose by doing it as Neil can ask some awkward questions as showed with Corbyn. Someone on DS has emailed him daring him to ask Boris about the wrong DWP assessments and why so many appeals succeed.




"Daring?" As if that's a naughty question to ask?? Those are the types of questions he SHOULD be being asked. He's Prime Minister FFS!

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 04:34 PM

QUOTE(mald487 @ Nov 27 2019, 04:31 PM) *
"Daring?" As if that's a naughty question to ask?? Those are the types of questions he SHOULD be being asked. He's Prime Minister FFS!



Yes I know he should be asking that. Why millions of taxpayers money are being wasted on appeals which wouldn't be needed if the correct decision had been made in the first place.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Nov 27 2019, 04:35 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 04:25 PM) *
My guess is that Boris won't do it which I suppose is his right. They may think he has nothing really to gain and plenty to lose by doing it as Neil can ask some awkward questions as showed with Corbyn. Someone on DS has emailed him daring him to ask Boris about the wrong DWP assessments and why so many appeals succeed.

Don't you think answering difficult questions should be considered part of the job of being PM?

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 04:37 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 27 2019, 04:35 PM) *
Don't you think answering difficult questions should be considered part of the job of being PM?



Yes of course I do and would like him to ask that myself and see how he answers it.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Nov 27 2019, 04:40 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 04:37 PM) *
Yes of course I do and would like him to ask that myself and see how he answers it.

So the fact that he may manage to duck out of such an interview ought to make him less suitable for the job? Don't try and say he's busy running the country unless you can guarantee there will spend no time electioneering between now and polling day.

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 04:42 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 27 2019, 04:40 PM) *
So the fact that he may manage to duck out of such an interview ought to make him less suitable for the job? Don't try and say he's busy running the country unless you can guarantee there will spend no time electioneering between now and polling day.



I agree he should do the interview and we've yet to learn whether or not he will do.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Nov 27 2019, 05:55 PM

If Boris Johnson chickens out of the Andrew Neil interview, what the BBC should do is give the slot over to Andrew Neil to deliver a 30 minute monologue on Johnson & the Tories' record over the past few years. Anyone who's watched This Week will know just how powerful his 2-minute opening monologues can be (in particular his evisceration of Fidel Castro & his legacy was particularly scathing), so imagine if he was given 30 minutes to do the same, straight to camera, on the Tories legacy since 2010? It would be even more devestating to Boris than any interview with him could ever be.

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 05:58 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Nov 27 2019, 05:55 PM) *
If Boris Johnson chickens out of the Andrew Neil interview, what the BBC should do is give the slot over to Andrew Neil to deliver a 30 minute monologue on Johnson & the Tories' record over the past few years. Anyone who's watched This Week will know just how powerful his 2-minute opening monologues can be (in particular his evisceration of Fidel Castro & his legacy was particularly scathing), so imagine if he was given 30 minutes to do the same, straight to camera, on the Tories legacy since 2010? It would be even more devestating to Boris than any interview with him could ever be.



I think you'd find that would break impartiailty rules and land the BBC in a heap of trouble with Ofcom as the Tories would complain.

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 27 2019, 05:58 PM



Yikes

Posted by: Brett-Butler Nov 27 2019, 05:59 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 06:58 PM) *
I think you'd find that would break impartiailty rules and land the BBC in a heap of trouble with Ofcom as the Tories would complain.


Just stick an "empty chair" in the room with him. Problem solved.

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 06:03 PM

Oh and Labour are just bringing up the NHS document now to deflect from the fact that he won't apologise for anti-semitism. The sooner this election campaign's over and we have a Conservative majority the better.

Posted by: ElectroBoy Nov 27 2019, 06:05 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 06:03 PM) *
Oh and Labour are just bringing up the NHS document now to deflect from the fact that he won't apologise for anti-semitism. The sooner this election campaign's over and we have a Conservative majority the better.


And the Tories and the right wing media are just bringing anti-semitism up in order to cover for Boris' lies, homophobia, sexism, racism and the fact the Tory party have their own anti-semitism and anti-islamic problems.

Why the heck shouldn't Labour bring this document into the public domain? the voters have the right to know what is being discussed and what lies the Tories are getting up to. Or should we just live in blissful ignorance, like yourself

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 06:07 PM

I agree entirely with this excellent DS post.


It may just be me, but I think, we have finally hit 'peak' election time. Red and Blue seem obsessed with destroying each other at the moment.

Who's scandal is bigger, what can do the most damage to the other and how can we try and unleash all hell to the other side.

The problem with all of this ramped up rhetoric is that it's the electorate losing out.

It appears from the outside looking in that the two parties care more about destroying the other than they do actually getting elected. It was alway going to be a dirty election, however this just ramps up the clear disdain that the two parties have for each other and be damned who gets caught up in the collateral as long as the other gets rinsed.

We are at a point now where we are looking at effectively school kids screaming at each other as to who is the worst or less worse than the other and it stinks of desparation.

With the date of the country at hand with Brexit and been paralysed for years by the same thing, no one, neither of Red or Blue are coming out of this with any credit at all.

Looking further afield at the leader polls, none of them whether Red blue yellow etc have any positive outlook and that's as damning as all hell as to where we are at.

Does anyone have ideas as to how we pull ourselves back from the seeming drive to full on catastrophe as the next parliament is likely to be a very short one before it spectacularly implodes?

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 06:09 PM

I think this is the peak time too and if Labour are to start closing the gap in the polls it'll be soon, this weekend maybe.

Posted by: mald487 Nov 27 2019, 06:23 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 06:03 PM) *
Oh and Labour are just bringing up the NHS document now to deflect from the fact that he won't apologise for anti-semitism. The sooner this election campaign's over and we have a Conservative majority the better.


What are your thoughts on that document?

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 27 2019, 06:29 PM

You simple-minded old fool!!

1. JC has nothing to do with antisemitism, except that it is used as a slur by right wing brainwashed dolts like yourself, as you cannot say A THING about his policies or statesmanship.
2. We have EVIDENCE now that the tories want to sell it ro the Americans.
3. They are basically following the blueprint for stealth privatisation point by point, you blinkered old dotard.
4. Antisemitism comes from the right wing. Tories have problems with it and islamophobia, so why the f*** would you want a tory majority if you ACTUALLY care about anti-semitism? Ho hmm. Questions, questions...

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 27 2019, 06:30 PM

QUOTE(ElectroBoy @ Nov 27 2019, 06:05 PM) *
And the Tories and the right wing media are just bringing anti-semitism up in order to cover for Boris' lies, homophobia, sexism, racism and the fact the Tory party have their own anti-semitism and anti-islamic problems.

Why the heck shouldn't Labour bring this document into the public domain? the voters have the right to know what is being discussed and what lies the Tories are getting up to. Or should we just live in blissful ignorance, like yourself



100% THIS. Also agreed r.e Andrew Neil. Empty chair Blojo.

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 06:31 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 27 2019, 06:29 PM) *
You simple-minded old fool!!

1. JC has nothing to do with antisemitism, exceot that it is used as a slur by right wing brainwashed solts like yourself, as you cannot say A THING about his policies or statesmanship.
2. We have EVIDENCE now that the tories want to sell it ro the Americans.
3. They are basically following the blueprint for stealth privatisation point by point, you blinkered old dotard.
4. Antisemitism comes from the righr wing. Tories have problems with it and islamophobia, so why the f*** would you want a tory majority if you ACTUALLY care about anti-semitism? Ho hmm. Questions, questions...



1. He has failed to stamp it out in his party as he should have done as leader. What did the Rabbi say?

His policies would bankrupt the country.

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 06:32 PM

QUOTE(mald487 @ Nov 27 2019, 06:23 PM) *
What are your thoughts on that document?



It doesn't say anywhere that the NHS will not continue to be totally free, as it always has been, at the point of contact.

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 06:33 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 27 2019, 06:30 PM) *
100% THIS. Also agreed r.e Andrew Neil. Empty chair Blojo.



I agree that Boris should face Neil as the others have. Labour are taking legal advice on this as they were told all main leaders were appearing.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 27 2019, 06:34 PM

WROOONG. We would have lower government spending than France and a bunch of other modern countries under Labour's plans. Stop being so thick.

The rabi is a TORY and personal friend of Blojo. Do the f***in maths. Jewish groups have come out and attacked him for his politicisation of the issue.

Posted by: ElectroBoy Nov 27 2019, 06:36 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 06:31 PM) *
1. He has failed to stamp it out in his party as he should have done as leader. What did the Rabbi say?

His policies would bankrupt the country.


Considering both the Lib Dems and Tories are in the same boat, the inference onto Labour is odd. Also another Tory MP has been suspended in Scotland today due to Islamaphobia.

How would his policies bankrupt the country - they've been costed haven't they? or are you taking what Sajid Javid has spun (ie making up numbers to get at Labour) as factor?

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 06:36 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 27 2019, 06:34 PM) *
WROOONG. We would have lower government spending than France and a bunch of other modern countries under Labour's plans. Stop being so thick.

The rabi is a TORY and personal friend of Blojo. Do the f***in maths. Jewish groups have come out and attacked him for his politicisation of the issue.



Glad you've taken me off ignore. Now may I PM you as you keep PM'ing me? smile.gif

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 06:38 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 27 2019, 06:29 PM) *
You simple-minded old fool!!

1. JC has nothing to do with antisemitism, except that it is used as a slur by right wing brainwashed dolts like yourself, as you cannot say A THING about his policies or statesmanship.
2. We have EVIDENCE now that the tories want to sell it ro the Americans.
3. They are basically following the blueprint for stealth privatisation point by point, you blinkered old dotard.
4. Antisemitism comes from the right wing. Tories have problems with it and islamophobia, so why the f*** would you want a tory majority if you ACTUALLY care about anti-semitism? Ho hmm. Questions, questions...



Maybe I am a fool but stop calling me old you young whipper-snapper.

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 06:40 PM

I think Boris will have to appear really now. Labour consulting lawyers as they say they can prove that the BBC told them they were all taking part over 2-3 weeks. They say they'd never have agreed to take part had they known not every party had agreed. Can't see what legal action can do now Corbyn's already been on though.

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 06:42 PM

I'm all for some American investment in the NHS as everyone should be if it means more money, more beds, more nurses trained.

Posted by: ElectroBoy Nov 27 2019, 06:43 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 06:42 PM) *
I'm all for some American investment in the NHS as everyone should be if it means more money, more beds, more nurses trained.


Which off course is not what the document said or what the US intends.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 27 2019, 06:50 PM

Oh my god! It isn't investment.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Nov 27 2019, 07:23 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 06:03 PM) *
Oh and Labour are just bringing up the NHS document now to deflect from the fact that he won't apologise for anti-semitism. The sooner this election campaign's over and we have a Conservative majority the better.


Better for who?

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 07:24 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Nov 27 2019, 07:23 PM) *
Better for who?



For the country. For all of us.

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 27 2019, 07:50 PM

QUOTE(ElectroBoy @ Nov 27 2019, 06:36 PM) *
Considering both the Lib Dems and Tories are in the same boat, the inference onto Labour is odd. Also another Tory MP has been suspended in Scotland today due to Islamaphobia.

How would his policies bankrupt the country - they've been costed haven't they? or are you taking what Sajid Javid has spun (ie making up numbers to get at Labour) as factor?



Didn't even hear about the tory mp which says it all about coordinated media attacks are.

Posted by: ElectroBoy Nov 27 2019, 07:56 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 27 2019, 07:50 PM) *
Didn't even hear about the tory mp which says it all about coordinated media attacks are.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18064079.scottish-tories-suspend-second-election-candidate-alleged-islamophobia/

I have BBC scrolling news on at work, so saw it pop up on there

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 08:06 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 27 2019, 07:50 PM) *
Didn't even hear about the tory mp which says it all about coordinated media attacks are.



Posting 6 times. ohmy.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Nov 27 2019, 08:07 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 06:31 PM) *
1. He has failed to stamp it out in his party as he should have done as leader. What did the Rabbi say?

His policies would bankrupt the country.

The Chief Rabbi should not be assumed to be the leader of all Britain's Jews. He isn't. He has also described Johnson as a personal friend, so he is hardly impartial.

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 08:08 PM

Can you delete all the duplicate posts Suedy. Ta.

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 27 2019, 08:45 PM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Nov 25 2019, 03:19 PM) *
The BBC shouldn’t be making mistakes like this so often, intended or not.




I didn't quite buy the extent of the supposed bias before, but numerous mistakes in one direction, during one still ongoing election campaign, is quite something.

Fortunately, they are reporting even more important stuff.


Posted by: Doctor Bitch Nov 27 2019, 09:10 PM



Well he's really PISSED me off there. It is cream first on a scone, what a complete TWONK. Can't even get that right!

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 09:13 PM

I'd say jam then cream but never eat scones.

Posted by: Doctor Bitch Nov 27 2019, 09:16 PM

Looking forward to tomorrow's in-depth BBC Political report on the Conservatives policy on the best biscuit for dunking.

That licence fee going to exceptional use.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Nov 27 2019, 09:28 PM

You may joke, but I bet there's a lot of so-called "low information" voters for whom the order that one puts jam & cream on a scone could be the difference for voting for a candidate or not. Never make the mistake of thinking that people vote for rational reasons.

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 09:43 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Nov 27 2019, 09:28 PM) *
You may joke, but I bet there's a lot of so-called "low information" voters for whom the order that one puts jam & cream on a scone could be the difference for voting for a candidate or not. Never make the mistake of thinking that people vote for rational reasons.


Yes, the electorate is very unpredictable and who knows what may influence them.

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 27 2019, 10:01 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 08:06 PM) *
Posting 6 times. ohmy.gif


Sorry I was at work and pressed escape and it seemed to post a load of times?! pirate.gif

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 27 2019, 10:02 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 09:43 PM) *
Yes, the electorate is very unpredictable and who knows what may influence them.


Idiots is what I would call them!

Posted by: common sense Nov 27 2019, 10:03 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 27 2019, 10:01 PM) *
Sorry I was at work and pressed escape and it seemed to post a load of times?! pirate.gif



I keep double posting. Gremlins in here.

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 27 2019, 10:05 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 27 2019, 10:03 PM) *
I keep double posting. Gremlins in here.


Well you have been posting the same pro Tory propaganda for months now 😜

Posted by: Tones and Iz Nov 28 2019, 01:32 PM

Corbyn gets a grilling in an interview. Boris Johnson gets to duck out of the interview and spread jam on scones (I mean, at least he got it the right way but that's neither here nor there). Christ this is blatant.



As Twitter thread above shows, the state of Tory control over our media is everywhere, it's beyond the BBC but they are at the centre of it. Kuenssberg just over the last 24 hours has retweeted Piers Morgan saying 'journalists should pummel Corbyn' before uncritically and literally sharing Dominic Cummings' Tory and Leave fanfiction of a blog.

It's becoming so ultimately clear what the Conservatives' plan has been, it's been going on for a while but right now it's mask f***ing off. Control the conversation, control the media, and you get to control democracy in your favour. That's what they have been working towards, and they've done it. Journalists at our state-sponsored media are sharing and amplfiying right-wing talking points while immediately questioning, downplaying and rubbishing any left media.

It's the legitimate way to turn a democracy into a one-party state with a 'natural party of government', propagandise the voters so they vote for you, even better, do it with an institution they have trusted and will accept their lines uncritically. Subtle persuasive language, add in some analysts to give their 'expert opinion', and people who do not question (which is most of the public) will never know.

to finish off, I guess they were having a normal one the other day:



Posted by: blacksquare Nov 28 2019, 03:01 PM

QUOTE(Tones and Iz @ Nov 28 2019, 01:32 PM) *
Corbyn gets a grilling in an interview. Boris Johnson gets to duck out of the interview and spread jam on scones (I mean, at least he got it the right way but that's neither here nor there). Christ this is blatant.



As Twitter thread above shows, the state of Tory control over our media is everywhere, it's beyond the BBC but they are at the centre of it. Kuenssberg just over the last 24 hours has retweeted Piers Morgan saying 'journalists should pummel Corbyn' before uncritically and literally sharing Dominic Cummings' Tory and Leave fanfiction of a blog.

It's becoming so ultimately clear what the Conservatives' plan has been, it's been going on for a while but right now it's mask f***ing off. Control the conversation, control the media, and you get to control democracy in your favour. That's what they have been working towards, and they've done it. Journalists at our state-sponsored media are sharing and amplfiying right-wing talking points while immediately questioning, downplaying and rubbishing any left media.

It's the legitimate way to turn a democracy into a one-party state with a 'natural party of government', propagandise the voters so they vote for you, even better, do it with an institution they have trusted and will accept their lines uncritically. Subtle persuasive language, add in some analysts to give their 'expert opinion', and people who do not question (which is most of the public) will never know.

to finish off, I guess they were having a normal one the other day:



It's working — I just had a conversation with my mother, someone who relies solely on the BBC, about how the US-UK NHS trade documents were 'fake news' because Laura Kuenssberg on BBC News had suggested so. It's hard not to sound like a conspiracy theorist when arguing with anyone who sees the BBC as completely impartial and factual.

Posted by: vidcapper Nov 28 2019, 03:08 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 27 2019, 10:05 PM) *
Well you have been posting the same pro Tory propaganda for months now 😜


Very droll.

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 28 2019, 03:40 PM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Nov 28 2019, 03:08 PM) *
Very droll.


I can't help myself!

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 28 2019, 06:29 PM

That is VILE. That is Putin levels of propaganda and I hope the electoral commission rakes them over the coals over this. They are ACTIVELY trying to get young people not to register to vote. This is obviously done to protect rhe Tories.

We have Tory Laura Nick Robinson whose links to the Tories run DEEEP, to say the least, plants all over ToryTime, and Andrew Neil, before we even mention that hard right old radio presenter who WE ALL KNEW WAS BIASED! He then ran to the Daily Mail after retiring, claiming he COULDN'T reveal his Tory views on the BBTory. Oh, really, then how did we all know? rotf.gif The fact that Andrew Neil, extremely right wing can be on the BBTory, but someone of a similar hardline position but on the LEFT being on the BBTory would be unthinkable, shows how big the problem is with the BBTory. It can't pretend to be neutral with people like him, Laura and Nick running around.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...vOAybvjPphou9Bw

BBTory has had to apologise over cutting out laughter, showing a three year old clip they had to get out the archives to save Bojo embarrassment over his memorial blunder, after first trying to defend both decisions!

Here we have the problems with Tory Time. First up, the Tory plant they keep wheeling out who was chosen to ask Qs to JC:

[Utl]https://dorseteye.com/ryan-jacobz-the-tory-plant-that-bbc-question-time-cannot-get-enough-of/?fbclid=IwAR2EdXKiG4PqFK0T-Aqn24BbWp7SR-aEpYI1LNzKnZT930ahHnaDRSXYsuk[/url]

A lot of Tory councillors are getting chosen, whoch is odd, as that shouldn't be allowed, and all other parties are under the impression that it's not...

Not sure how to embed tweets:

https://mobile.twitter.com/stevebrookstein/status/1198406956286971904?fbclid=IwAR3xnT_gGgdlCwXegMd4nojVA0qu38f-PLfPTSUq_D37Ti3jEFH2gk0CiO0

So the BBTory protected the Tories by searching for a part in the show where he said the same word to use that and to replace the laughter with applause. That should be a massive scandal in and of itself.

Here is the BBTory admitting it was a "mistake"!

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/bbc-admits-to-making-a-mistake-when-it-edited-footage-of-audience-reactions-to-boris-johnson/25/11/?fbclid=IwAR3xsAlxqDcHmWioLK5H0g0X-guUAKq4oUazD04WHr0LdHRY2oCBYc4BjBs[/url

The Canary explains why their excuses are pathetic:


[Url=]https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/bbc-admits-to-making-a-mistake-when-it-edited-footage-of-audience-reactions-to-boris-johnson/25/11/?fbclid=IwAR3xsAlxqDcHmWioLK5H0g0X-guUAKq4oUazD04WHr0LdHRY2oCBYc4BjBs://https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/n...dHRY2oCBYc4BjBs


https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2019/11/2...lD03uvQ2GeG_sYE

Here is Preston claiming that Bojo WAS ALWAYS AGAINST AUSTERITY!! WOW!!

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/boris-joh...tion-500869?amp


Here is Ofcom stating that the BBTory is at risk of destroying trust in it for a generation:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/medi...NTOVMeJP-kQxduA

It won't last. Thanks to all its pro government propaganda, it is finished when the one party state government finally gets the boot.

And here is a great piece on how the BBTory "mistskes" ALWAYS benefit the Tories but are bad for Labour. Funny that.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/25/bbc-admits-mistake-in-editing-out-laughter-at-johnson-in-tv-debate?fbclid=IwAR199K1JNkcpW4A3Mxr1kdHMyVYfOfZbIBqIjv8g4PFFDvvdUYcsOV39FrQ[/url!]

Aaand here's Hugh Edwards RUSHING to the defence of the BBTory and getting absolutely slammed for his ridiculous excuses.

[=url]https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2019/11/25/huw-edwards-slams-crackers-people-who-take-issue-with-the-bbc-editing-audience-reactions/?fbclid=IwAR3Zx97-tH26SUetUgnsCAy4lp_KkPivwFPoNnAtDE3Frs8BbLOlq7uoQS0://https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...rs8BbLOlq7uoQS0


And here are itv and BBTory referencing THE SMALLEST DEBATE POLL to try and say it was a draw, like Tory Laura, or that Bojo won, from a poll THAT WAS RELEASED BEFORE IT EVEN ENDED!!

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/11/20/video-youg...Nz_Kx6NlAeuAEQs

Yougov interview 1.9k people, BritainElects interviewed 39,000, and there were other similar polls showing the same, with Corbyn smashing Bojo in ALLbut that torygov one, and it wasn't close. We were talking about 70% Corbyn victories. Other polls showed him winning with the undecided voters - again, by massive margins. And yet BBTiry and ITV, plus the Tory press, o ly reported the tiny yougov one that was released before the debate ended laugh.gif

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 28 2019, 07:01 PM

LOL!! I got you, beeb!



Thr channel has to go. It has lost all credibility.

Posted by: vidcapper Nov 29 2019, 05:51 AM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 28 2019, 07:01 PM) *
Thr channel has to go. It has lost all credibility.


Never mind everything non-Newsy it does?

Posted by: blacksquare Nov 30 2019, 01:19 PM



Shame on the BBC for using the fatal stabbing of two people as an excuse to let Johnson grandstand without scrutiny.

Posted by: vidcapper Nov 30 2019, 03:06 PM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Nov 30 2019, 01:19 PM) *


Shame on the BBC for using the fatal stabbing of two people as an excuse to let Johnson grandstand without scrutiny.


And if he *hadn't*, you would do doubt accuse him of dodging the cameras... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 30 2019, 03:24 PM

Absolutely dusgraceful. They buckped the SECOND the Tories threatened them. Weak. It has no place as a state broadcaster. Axe.

Morw on that, the BBTory Trust found Tory Laura's latest Corbyn reporting to be "inaccurate". It really shows how the channel leans when someone as biased and as obvious a Tory as her is allowed to run the show.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Nov 30 2019, 04:00 PM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Nov 30 2019, 03:06 PM) *
And if he *hadn't*, you would do doubt accuse him of dodging the cameras... rolleyes.gif

What makes you think that? When will you accept that the incoherent oaf is afraid of anything remotely resembling proper scrutiny?

Posted by: common sense Nov 30 2019, 04:26 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 30 2019, 03:24 PM) *
Absolutely dusgraceful. They buckped the SECOND the Tories threatened them. Weak. It has no place as a state broadcaster. Axe.



AXE THE BBC? You must be joking. It's known worldwide and has an international reutation for fairness. What channel do people turn to in a dire emergency? The BBC.

Posted by: common sense Nov 30 2019, 04:30 PM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Nov 30 2019, 01:19 PM) *
Shame on the BBC for using the fatal stabbing of two people as an excuse to let Johnson grandstand without scrutiny.



What are you on about? He was scheduled to appear on Marr before the stabbings happened and will be scrutinised by him!

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 30 2019, 04:37 PM

Bojo is a WEAK WORM. BBTory is little better for letting him escape scrutiny after LYING to yhe left wing opposition parties by saying Bojo would also face the NOTORIOUSLY RIGHT WING Neil.

Posted by: common sense Nov 30 2019, 04:40 PM

Come On Boris, Get On Neil. You can do it. Silence your critics and sock it to him.


I agree he should go on.

Posted by: common sense Nov 30 2019, 04:42 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 30 2019, 03:24 PM) *
Absolutely dusgraceful. They buckped the SECOND the Tories threatened them. Weak. It has no place as a state broadcaster. Axe.

Morw on that, the BBTory Trust found Tory Laura's latest Corbyn reporting to be "inaccurate". It really shows how the channel leans when someone as biased and as obvious a Tory as her is allowed to run the show.



She's not running the show though Michael. She has bosses. She's only a reporter, the political editor. She has senior editors and the head of news above her.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 30 2019, 04:46 PM

The weak and wobbly etonian SENT HIS DAD AROUND TV TO DEFEND HIM!! He signals for interviewers to stop questions ANGRILY and they comply, as he is their overlord. WEAK.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Nov 30 2019, 04:49 PM

QUOTE(common sense @ Nov 30 2019, 04:30 PM) *
What are you on about? He was scheduled to appear on Marr before the stabbings happened and will be scrutinised by him!

No he wasn't. Johnson wanted to appear on the programme but the BBC said he had to agree to an interview with Andrew Neil first. He refused, so the BBC said he wouldn't be on Marr.

Marr is not as incisive an interviewer as Neil. Why do you think Johnson is so keen to avoid the latter?

Posted by: common sense Nov 30 2019, 04:53 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 30 2019, 04:49 PM) *
No he wasn't. Johnson wanted to appear on the programme but the BBC said he had to agree to an interview with Andrew Neil first. He refused, so the BBC said he wouldn't be on Marr.

Marr is not as incisive an interviewer as Neil. Why do you think Johnson is so keen to avoid the latter?



Oh sorry I hadn't heard that about them keeping him off unless he went on Neil.

Marr can be a bit like a dog with a bone with a question though and keep asking it to try and get an answer.

Posted by: common sense Nov 30 2019, 04:55 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 30 2019, 04:46 PM) *
M!! He signals for interviewers to stop questions ANGRILY and they comply, as he is their overlord. WEAK.



No. Yesterday's LBC incident has been debunked. He was copying the editor who made the mouth sign just before him, to get the producer to get the caller off.

Posted by: Big Boobs Vjay! Nov 30 2019, 05:01 PM

No. The media was protecting him and leapt into action ehen he wanted to ditch a question about the nhs.

Posted by: common sense Nov 30 2019, 05:11 PM

QUOTE(Big Boobs Vjay! @ Nov 30 2019, 05:01 PM) *
No. The media was protecting him and leapt into action ehen he wanted to ditch a question about the nhs.



Oh well if the media is protecting him a bit if it helps us not get Corbyn in No.10 it'll be a job well done. smile.gif

Posted by: ChristmaSteve201 Dec 2 2019, 10:55 PM

So you admit the media are on the tories side to keep the establishment in power?

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 2 2019, 10:59 PM

QUOTE(ChristmaSteve201 @ Dec 2 2019, 10:55 PM) *
So you admit the media are on the tories side to keep the establishment in power?



Maybe a bit but we need a Tory government returned to get Brexit done. Remember it's oven ready.

Posted by: ChristmaSteve201 Dec 2 2019, 11:02 PM

The oven hasn't even been switched on.

At any rate the tories always find a reason to ask you to vote for them - they are addicted to power!

Posted by: Doctor Bitch Dec 3 2019, 01:35 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris-tmas @ Dec 2 2019, 10:59 PM) *
Remember it's oven ready.


I prefer the term 'half baked', or to put it another way - 'this is just the withdrawal agreement that confirms how much we are paying the EU (£39 bn), agrees citizens rights once the UK is outside the EU, both of UK citizens in EU countries and vice-versa, and also border and customs arrangements such as keeping Northern Ireland in the single market/customs union. It speaks nothing to the trade arrangements that will be thrashed out over the (at least) next 3 years, nor the fact that the Tories have thrown away much of their bargaining position by stubbornly refusing to extend the transition period to beyond 31 December 2020 despite the fact that an extension will be required to get something favourable, meaning the EU can do exactly what they did last time and offer whatever terms they want and wait for the UK to be forced into accepting them under time constraints.'

Posted by: vidsanta Dec 3 2019, 05:56 AM

QUOTE(ChristmaSteve201 @ Dec 2 2019, 11:02 PM) *
The oven hasn't even been switched on.

At any rate the tories always find a reason to ask you to vote for them - they are addicted to power!


Are you sure that Corbyn's motives for wanting power are so pure?

Posted by: ChristmaSteve201 Dec 3 2019, 01:32 PM

No but I agree with this economic, foreign policy and social views.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 4 2019, 03:36 PM

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-537890?fbclid=IwAR3mSCDrMg5bhJEcvvdvGzLnYHOjDuKTXjIRKafWaX3AQAnJx9wyq9Y7iWs

Corbyn has officially called out BBTory bias.

Posted by: vidsanta Dec 4 2019, 03:53 PM

QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 4 2019, 03:36 PM) *
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-537890?fbclid=IwAR3mSCDrMg5bhJEcvvdvGzLnYHOjDuKTXjIRKafWaX3AQAnJx9wyq9Y7iWs

Corbyn has officially called out BBTory bias.


Yes, three months ago, in an non-mainstream article... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 4 2019, 04:07 PM

QUOTE(ChristmaSteve201 @ Dec 3 2019, 01:32 PM) *
No but I agree with this economic, foreign policy and social views.



What about the fact that he'd keep a nuclear deterrent but would never use it?

Posted by: blacksquare Dec 4 2019, 04:26 PM

QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 4 2019, 03:53 PM) *
Yes, three months ago, in an non-mainstream article... rolleyes.gif


'i' has won numerous journalism awards (including Newspaper of the Year) and, as of last week, is https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50598506.

Perhaps you'll want to start reading it now.

Michael less so.


Posted by: Suedehead2 Dec 4 2019, 05:00 PM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Dec 4 2019, 04:26 PM) *
'i' has won numerous journalism awards (including Newspaper of the Year) and, as of last week, is https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50598506.

Perhaps you'll want to start reading it now.

Michael less so.


It isn't owned by the Daily Mail yet. It has to be approve by the Competition and Markets Authority.

Posted by: ChristmaSteve201 Dec 5 2019, 12:43 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris-tmas @ Dec 4 2019, 04:07 PM) *
What about the fact that he'd keep a nuclear deterrent but would never use it?


I agree wholeheartedly as I don't want a PM acting like a strongman which could potentially kill millions of people(even though in reality they would have no power as the United States holds all the cards here). One thing I would say is that they shouldn't have it in the first place.

Posted by: vidsanta Dec 5 2019, 06:04 AM

QUOTE(ChristmaSteve201 @ Dec 5 2019, 12:43 AM) *
I agree wholeheartedly as I don't want a PM acting like a strongman which could potentially kill millions of people(even though in reality they would have no power as the United States holds all the cards here). One thing I would say is that they shouldn't have it in the first place.


Now that really would be the ultimate collusion with the Russians.

Posted by: ChristmaSteve201 Dec 5 2019, 01:44 PM

How?

Posted by: December Dong Dec 5 2019, 01:57 PM

QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 5 2019, 06:04 AM) *
Now that really would be the ultimate collusion with the Russians.


We don't need nukes. The end.

Posted by: vidsanta Dec 5 2019, 05:00 PM

QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 5 2019, 01:57 PM) *
We don't need nukes. The end.


The country would be virtually defenceless.

I believe there was a Yes Minister episode on this? unsure.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Dec 5 2019, 05:02 PM

QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 5 2019, 05:00 PM) *
The country would be virtually defenceless.

I believe there was a Yes Minister episode on this? unsure.gif

You mean we would be like almost every other country in the world?

Posted by: December Dong Dec 5 2019, 05:12 PM

QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 5 2019, 05:00 PM) *
The country would be virtually defenceless.

I believe there was a Yes Minister episode on this? unsure.gif


Not so. Europe, working together, is more than capable of defending itself. It's a shame the Aztecs didn't have nukes eh, or the Roman Empire, or the Babylonians. Civilizations have risen and fallen throughout history, and it's good they didn't have nukes. Humanity will continue, but it won't if we keep nuking each other. As far as we k ow we're the only highly evolved intelligence in the universe. We have a duty to preserve the species. That should be our first concern. Therefore, nukes = no no.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Dec 5 2019, 07:30 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Nov 27 2019, 06:55 PM) *
If Boris Johnson chickens out of the Andrew Neil interview, what the BBC should do is give the slot over to Andrew Neil to deliver a 30 minute monologue on Johnson & the Tories' record over the past few years. Anyone who's watched This Week will know just how powerful his 2-minute opening monologues can be (in particular his evisceration of Fidel Castro & his legacy was particularly scathing), so imagine if he was given 30 minutes to do the same, straight to camera, on the Tories legacy since 2010? It would be even more devestating to Boris than any interview with him could ever be.


...and he spent 5 minutes doing just that at the end of his interview with Nigel Farage tonight, and challenged Boris to come and meet him face to face for an interview.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Dec 5 2019, 07:35 PM

QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 5 2019, 06:00 PM) *
The country would be virtually defenceless.

I believe there was a Yes Minister episode on this? unsure.gif


By Buzzjack law, any time Yes (Prime) Minister is mentioned, I am obliged to post the relevant clip -



Although it's worth mentioning that the pro-Trident argument is made by the deceitful, conniving Sir Humphrey.

My own view of Trident - Britain should agree to renew it, and then not do it and not tell anyone. They're secret nukes, who would know they're not even there?

Posted by: ChristmaSteve201 Dec 5 2019, 08:00 PM

The nuke issue always brings out the gammon nut jobs who think it takes a hard man to have a weapon of mass destruction.

Posted by: ChristmaSteve201 Dec 5 2019, 08:00 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Dec 5 2019, 07:30 PM) *
...and he spent 5 minutes doing just that at the end of his interview with Nigel Farage tonight, and challenged Boris to come and meet him face to face for an interview.


Fair play!

Posted by: Brett-Butler Dec 5 2019, 08:07 PM



The gauntlet is laid.

Posted by: ChristmaSteve201 Dec 5 2019, 09:52 PM

Seen the last part of the Farage interview there - he might be a Tory but I found myself cheering at the tv with what he said - he's by far the best interrogator on the tv - he used to make speeches like this on This Week now and again!

Posted by: Suedehead2 Dec 5 2019, 10:07 PM

QUOTE(ChristmaSteve201 @ Dec 5 2019, 09:52 PM) *
Seen the last part of the Farage interview there - he might be a Tory but I found myself cheering at the tv with what he said - he's by far the best interrogator on the tv - he used to make speeches like this on This Week now and again!

I still find it hard to forgive him for what he did to the Sunday Times, at Murdoch's behest.

We have to accept that any political interviewer will have their own views. If they had no real interest in politics, they wouldn't be doing the job. Neil's past means we know that, on economic policy at least, he is a right-wing Tory. If he can put that to one side and demonstrate a commitment to holding politicians to account, that has to be respected - even if I still don't like him.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 5 2019, 10:46 PM

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-complains-bbc-chief-over-21035154?fbclid=IwAR2K8xUTadqL1yiEaraE_LwQ4GO9saagW2veomLGMPLot-7RwJPkN4bBUUc

Labour have officially complained to the BBTory about their bias. They also need to report it to the electoral commission and to Ofcom. In fact this whole election should be re-run due to the vile establishment and pro-gov bias of the media. Let's try again, and this time make it DEMOCRATIC!

Posted by: ChristmaSteve201 Dec 6 2019, 02:01 AM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 5 2019, 10:07 PM) *
I still find it hard to forgive him for what he did to the Sunday Times, at Murdoch's behest.

We have to accept that any political interviewer will have their own views. If they had no real interest in politics, they wouldn't be doing the job. Neil's past means we know that, on economic policy at least, he is a right-wing Tory. If he can put that to one side and demonstrate a commitment to holding politicians to account, that has to be respected - even if I still don't like him.


Did you see what he said? In this interview at least he was brillant!

Posted by: vidsanta Dec 6 2019, 05:44 AM

QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 5 2019, 10:46 PM) *
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-complains-bbc-chief-over-21035154?fbclid=IwAR2K8xUTadqL1yiEaraE_LwQ4GO9saagW2veomLGMPLot-7RwJPkN4bBUUc

Labour have officially complained to the BBTory about their bias. They also need to report it to the electoral commission and to Ofcom. In fact this whole election should be re-run due to the vile establishment and pro-gov bias of the media. Let's try again, and this time make it DEMOCRATIC!


You seriously want to go through another 6 weeks of *this*? blink.gif I was bored stiff after just 2 weeks!

Posted by: Suedehead2 Dec 6 2019, 08:13 AM

QUOTE(ChristmaSteve201 @ Dec 6 2019, 02:01 AM) *
Did you see what he said? In this interview at least he was brillant!

I saw his challenge to Johnson, yes. It was, indeed, brilliant.

Posted by: blacksquare Dec 6 2019, 10:32 AM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Dec 5 2019, 08:07 PM) *


The gauntlet is laid.




Well, that is a no then.


Posted by: OVEN UN-READY. Dec 6 2019, 01:00 PM

It's ridiculous that Johnson has decided to opt-out of the Andrew Neil interviews, obviously a calculated risk which he thinks he will undoubtably benefit from, let's see...

Posted by: Holly and Izzy Dec 6 2019, 01:16 PM

I live in hope that he continually gets asked the question of why he refused to do it over the next week, what he's got to hide.

Conservative sources always sound ridiculously pompous: 'The public are fed up of politicians being held to account'

Posted by: Suedehead2 Dec 6 2019, 03:23 PM

Perhaps, in the interests of balance, the BBC should ask Labour and the Lib Dems whether they think the public has had enough of political interviews.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 6 2019, 03:25 PM

Surely those who have had enough could just um SKIP the interview and watch/ do something else?

Posted by: vidsanta Dec 6 2019, 03:29 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 6 2019, 03:23 PM) *
Perhaps, in the interests of balance, the BBC should ask Labour and the Lib Dems whether they think the public has had enough of political interviews.


Who has actually had their choice of who to vote for altered by such an interview, though?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Dec 6 2019, 04:34 PM

QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 6 2019, 03:29 PM) *
Who has actually had their choice of who to vote for altered by such an interview, though?

That's not the point - and you know it.

Posted by: vidsanta Dec 6 2019, 05:13 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 6 2019, 04:34 PM) *
That's not the point - and you know it.


Than what is the point, to embarrass party leaders? unsure.gif

Posted by: Santa Klaus Dec 6 2019, 05:27 PM

Does it not exhaust you forcing yourself to play devil’s advocate 24/7?

If you don’t want politicians to be held to account, that’s fine. Vote Conservative on 12 December and they can attempt to remove judicial review of their decisions too.

Posted by: vidsanta Dec 6 2019, 05:53 PM

QUOTE(Santa Klaus @ Dec 6 2019, 05:27 PM) *
Does it not exhaust you forcing yourself to play devil’s advocate 24/7?

If you don’t want politicians to be held to account, that’s fine. Vote Conservative on 12 December and they can attempt to remove judicial review of their decisions too.


Their decisions are reviewed by the *electorate*, that's what's gonna happen on Dec 12th.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 6 2019, 05:56 PM

And like I have said, given the deception, lies and one party state-style media, this election is hardly a shining example of democracy. Sorry.

Posted by: Santa Klaus Dec 6 2019, 05:59 PM

QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 6 2019, 05:53 PM) *
Their decisions are reviewed by the *electorate*, that's what's gonna happen on Dec 12th.

Thanks for not understanding the rule of law.

Posted by: vidsanta Dec 6 2019, 06:04 PM

QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 6 2019, 05:56 PM) *
And like I have said, given the deception, lies and one party state-style media, this election is hardly a shining example of democracy. Sorry.


Will that still apply if Labour pull off a shock win? teresa.gif

Posted by: December Dong Dec 6 2019, 07:01 PM

Not as much due to them not being the perpetrators, but yes. The Brexshit Party is running on a platform of: we have a manifesto, but we won't reveal it until after you've voted for us. Farage gets way too much airtime for having 0 seats - the Greens should get more than him. Yhat's bad. The media cheerleading the Tories on and attacking the opposition is even worse. Democracy? Hmm.

Posted by: Santa Klaus Dec 6 2019, 07:45 PM

Not BBC bias but a general state of the media bias. Labour’s 20,000 more teachers/training more teachers pledge was reported by the BBC, Independent, i, Mirror and the Guardian.

I cannot find it in Daily Mail or The Sun. It is only mentioned in the Daily Express as part of reporting a criticism from BBC Breakfast.

Posted by: ChristmaSteve201 Dec 7 2019, 12:02 AM

QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 6 2019, 05:13 PM) *
Than what is the point, to embarrass party leaders? unsure.gif


Did you listen to Neill?

It's democratic to come on and defend your policies and principles against the media.

Posted by: blacksquare Dec 9 2019, 06:00 PM

More great journalism from Laura Kuenssberg this evening:



Posted by: JingleBellJüpes Dec 9 2019, 06:04 PM

The fact that that Kuenssberg gets paid 200k a year to peddle her crap is just heinous.

Ten times the average national yearly salary to speak shite and tell lies for ad clicks, while wearing the mask of an impartial political reporter just telling the truth.

Everyone on all sides should be concerned about that.

Posted by: blacksquare Dec 9 2019, 06:07 PM

QUOTE(JingleBellJüpes @ Dec 9 2019, 06:04 PM) *
The fact that that Kuenssberg gets paid 200k a year to peddle her crap is just heinous.

Ten times the average national yearly salary to speak shite and tell lies for ad clicks, while wearing the mask of an impartial political reporter just telling the truth.

Everyone on all sides should be concerned about that.


Remember when Naga Munchetty broke impartiality rules with her comments regarding Trump and racism... How has Laura Kuenssberg managed to avoid the same? She regularly spreads disinformation, Tory propaganda, and has a clear bias in one direction. Disinformation, directly from a BBC journalist, is the top story on the Mail and Telegraph. It's ridiculous.

Local journalists have been reporting circles around the mainstream journalists this election.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Dec 9 2019, 09:04 PM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Dec 9 2019, 06:00 PM) *
More great journalism from Laura Kuenssberg this evening:



Kuenssberg is now reporting that "Labour say" the Tories are lying. Note that she didn't qualify her report about the alleged assault in the same way. So, a blatant lie is reported as fact and the truth is reported as a Labour claim. She is, of course, not saying where the original claim came from. I'm normally all in favour of journalists being allowed to protect their sources, but not when those sources use the BBC to spread a blatant, potentially defamatory, lie.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 9 2019, 09:09 PM

She needs to go. She should just go work for the tories. At least then she won't have to lie about being impartial.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Dec 9 2019, 09:28 PM

I don't even watch BBC News anymore - no journalism just 'churnalism'. Absolutely awful - IF the Tories end up with a healthy majority I will not be that upset should they decide to scrap the licence fee and cut the whole thing back.

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 9 2019, 09:31 PM

QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Dec 9 2019, 09:28 PM) *
I don't even watch BBC News anymore - no journalism just 'churnalism'. Absolutely awful - IF the Tories end up with a healthy majority I will not be that upset should they decide to scrap the licence fee and cut the whole thing back.



Scrapping the licence fee is needed. It's outdated and the BBC should take advertising like other channels do.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Dec 9 2019, 10:05 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris-tmas @ Dec 9 2019, 09:31 PM) *
Scrapping the licence fee is needed. It's outdated and the BBC should take advertising like other channels do.

And where is all that advertising income going to come from? If the BBC have to take advertising, that won't suddenly increase the amount spent on television advertising, it will just mean it gets spread across more channels. Besides, I'd prefer to be able to watch programmes without five minutes of adverts every ten minutes.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Dec 9 2019, 10:57 PM

If the licence fee is scrapped (which I don't think is immediately forthcoming, regardless of who wins on Friday), I imagine its replacement will be a subscription-based service in order to use the BBC iPlayer. Given that less people are watching the BBC live than in the past, and given that many people already pay the fee monthly a la Netflix, Crunchyroll and the like (as I do), I imagine a significant amount of people would switch over without a fuss.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Dec 9 2019, 11:04 PM

I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about the licence fee but I would welcome its replacement with an iPlayer subscription service.. certainly would be a much more sensible solution than this new 'BritBox' streaming service where you pay for both the TV licence, and then again for this subscription service?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Dec 10 2019, 07:56 AM

QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Dec 9 2019, 11:04 PM) *
I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about the licence fee but I would welcome its replacement with an iPlayer subscription service.. certainly would be a much more sensible solution than this new 'BritBox' streaming service where you pay for both the TV licence, and then again for this subscription service?

So goodbye BBC Introducing and any commitment to promote new music. Goodbye innovations such as Bake Off and Only Connect.

Just because the BBC’s journalism stinks at the moment, that’s no reason to destroy the whole institution.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 10 2019, 06:06 PM

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-chairwoman-tells-muslim-shopper-21055649?fbclid=IwAR0pcUQ18qelWYFQnhRORqzrS01OPg9fpLWhGu__SmrSPvA5I7pPpKPQans

The BBTory isn't screaming outrage over this. Selective media outrage = more bias.

Posted by: blacksquare Dec 11 2019, 11:20 AM



I know I sound like a broken record but seriously — how does she still have a job with the BBC?

Posted by: JingleBellJüpes Dec 11 2019, 11:23 AM

She didn't even spell check it. Wow.

Posted by: Holly and Izzy Dec 11 2019, 11:26 AM

I mean, it’s near enough a modern version of the ‘coalition of chaos’ tweet. Which Johnson should be tweeting, not the BBC political editor.

Posted by: Holly and Izzy Dec 11 2019, 11:42 AM



Inexcusable.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Dec 11 2019, 12:23 PM

QUOTE(Holly and Izzy @ Dec 11 2019, 11:42 AM) *


Inexcusable.


I'm shocked it's only 88%, given that being truthful is such an alien concept to them.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 11 2019, 12:35 PM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Dec 11 2019, 11:20 AM) *


I know I sound like a broken record but seriously — how does she still have a job with the BBC?


She needs to resign. Her bias is so, so blatant. They may as well have me on as the left wing correspondent for balance if they're going to allow these very obvious right wingers to dominate.

Posted by: blacksquare Dec 11 2019, 03:21 PM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Dec 11 2019, 11:20 AM) *


I know I sound like a broken record but seriously — how does she still have a job with the BBC?




Isn't it against electoral law to view postal votes ahead of the election? Isn't it illegal to broadcast details of how people have voted ahead of the election?

Whatever the laws or the rules are — it's incredibly dubious for someone in her position to be acting so carelessly.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 11 2019, 03:27 PM

One of the Tories, Rabb, maybe, they are all the same, blurted out live on air he'd seen postal votes!! He then tried to sidestep it. Apparently Mogg did the same and I just saw that one Tory asked constituents to send postal votes to their office?? If this is true it is DIRE. Has democracy already died?? I'm going to have to switch to the ballot box instead of postal voting. I can't trust it. That is bad when we can't even trust voting in a supposed democracy.

https://www.timesandstar.co.uk/news/18063388.candidate-faces-postal-vote-claim/

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 11 2019, 03:34 PM

QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 11 2019, 03:27 PM) *
One of the Tories, Rabb, maybe, they are all the same, blurted out live on air he'd seen postal votes!! He then tried to sidestep it.



They were discussing postal votes getting looked at beforehand on DS the other day and the general consensus was that some postal votes figures do get leaked. ohmy.gif Didn't Sturgeon say something during the Scottish referendum about it being close but quickly retracted it and then it was? They're not supposed to be opened until after the polls close but they apparently do take the outer part off to check the signature beforehand.

I know a girl who works for Newham council who's been counting votes in our town hall for a few elections now, asked me to do it if she put a word in, and she says they're all piled up on one desk unopened. Then when they start to open them a member from each party witnesses it. Who knows thought what goes on around the country?

Posted by: December Dong Dec 11 2019, 03:38 PM

Right, so imagine if someone filled it in in pencil and someone is coming along looking before the count. This should not be allowed. They need to be opened in a controlled enviornment in the counting. Who knows what could happen to them otherwise - forcibly spoiled ballots, changed ballots, missing ballots, etc. Nornally this would just be conspiracy theory stuff, but apparently we have people viewing postal votes ahead of time!! So basically, who the hell knows? It just casts doubt on the process. There's a reason why it is illegal to look at them before the count. This is incredibly dangerous for democracy. Not only that, but then REPORTING on what they say, which can influence how people vote, not to mention being illegal pre-count anyway, is just unbelievable. I reaally hope it's not true. Well, that's me finished with postal voting then.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 11 2019, 03:40 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris-tmas @ Dec 11 2019, 03:34 PM) *
They were discussing postal votes getting looked at beforehand on DS the other day and the general consensus was that some postal votes figures do get leaked. ohmy.gif Didn't Sturgeon say something during the Scottish referendum about it being close but quickly retracted it and then it was? They're not supposed to be opened until after the polls close but they apparently do take the outer part off to check the signature beforehand.

I know a girl who works for Newham council who's been counting votes in our town hall for a few elections now, asked me to do it if she put a word in, and she says they're all piled up on one desk unopened. Then when they start to open them a member from each party witnesses it. Who knows thought what goes on around the country?


Everywhere should do it like her place does, as it is the law.

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 11 2019, 03:41 PM

According to this lass, they're all in boxes on a seperate table away from the counters and other people and opened with a member of each party present if they want to be. I'll ask her if they check the signatures beforehand next time I see her? What's this outer part that they're talking about on DS that they can remove first to check the signature? I've never seen a postal vote form you see. They say they can check the signature without seeing hoow you've voted.

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 11 2019, 03:42 PM

QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 11 2019, 03:40 PM) *
Everywhere should do it like her place does, as it is the law.




We know that Michael, as J told me, there are strict rules for how it's done but who's to say what happens elsewhere.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 11 2019, 03:43 PM

You fill in one sheet with dob and signature. That goes on the top over the voting envelope. You then fill in your vote, which goes inside a SEPARATE envelope. If they check the signature, they won't see the vote unless they open the second envelope.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Dec 11 2019, 03:45 PM

Yes, the signatures will generally be checked before the count. Otherwise, there would be a long delay. However, the ballot paper itself should remain in its sealed envelope until the count. They will then be opened at the count. As with the rest of the process, parties can have representatives present to observe and ensure it is done properly.

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 11 2019, 03:46 PM

QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 11 2019, 03:43 PM) *
You fill in one sheet with dob and signature. That goes on the top over the voting envelope. You then fill in your vote, which goes inside a SEPARATE envelope. If they check the signature, they won't see the vote unless they open the second envelope.



Right, so they can open the first envelope she says but NOT the second one, as they say on DS. I can't say if anything underhand goes on anywhere else can I but the returning officer should make sure it doesn't.

There have been rumours last week that Labour weren't doing well but how the hell do they know? rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 11 2019, 03:46 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 11 2019, 03:45 PM) *
Yes, the signatures will generally be checked before the count. Otherwise, there would be a long delay. However, the ballot paper itself should remain in its sealed envelope until the count. They will then be opened at the count. As with the rest of the process, parties can have representatives present to observe and ensure it is done properly.



Yes, Suedy we know what SHOULD happen.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 11 2019, 03:47 PM

But let's look at it from another angle. What if the Tory sources just PRETENDED it "looked grim" for Labour to Laura, and rhen she goes and repeats the lie? It's pure propaganda. What was she thinking repeating it!

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 11 2019, 03:48 PM

I could have done it last time, 2015, but then as J said, they may find out and say I'm fit for work so thought it wouldn't be worth it for a few extra quid. She works in Finance and said they were short. She does a polling station all day too but you're not allowed to do your own, has to be further way from where you live. Then is up all night too!

Posted by: blacksquare Dec 11 2019, 04:07 PM

QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 11 2019, 03:47 PM) *
But let's look at it from another angle. What if the Tory sources just PRETENDED it "looked grim" for Labour to Laura, and then she goes and repeats the lie? It's pure propaganda. What was she thinking repeating it!


She's going to be in trouble if this story gains traction. Well, you would think. So, probably not.


Posted by: December Dong Dec 11 2019, 04:17 PM

People reported it to the EC, but it's a matter for Ofcom and the Met!!

It won't gain traction. The Met won't do anything, Ofcom can't, and BBTory and ITV won't mention it.

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 11 2019, 04:19 PM

QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 11 2019, 04:17 PM) *
People reported it to the EC, but it's a matter for Ofcom and the Met!!

It won't gain traction. The Met won't do anything, Ofcom can't, and BBTory and ITV won't mention it.



It'll be on all the new channels tonight. Remember tomorrow they can't discuss the election until 10pm. They'll just show the leaders voting.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Dec 11 2019, 04:34 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris-tmas @ Dec 11 2019, 03:46 PM) *
Yes, Suedy we know what SHOULD happen.

Why did you ask the question then?

Posted by: blacksquare Dec 11 2019, 08:23 PM



And yet, they have removed the episode from iPlayer.

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 11 2019, 08:35 PM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Dec 11 2019, 08:23 PM) *


And yet, they have removed the episode from iPlayer.



Very odd.

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 11 2019, 10:53 PM

By Peter Oborne in The Guardian.

I’ve been a loyal Conservative voter. Until very recently, I’d exclusively worked for Conservative-leaning publications: the Telegraph, Mail, London Evening Standard, Express and Spectator. Most of my friends and relations are Conservative. But I cannot vote Conservative tomorrow.

Something horrible has happened. The Conservative party lies. It cheats. It bullies. It’s not the wise, gentle, decent party of the postwar era.

I wonder whether Boris Johnson and his squalid associates are Conservatives at all. The Conservativism I understand is about public duty, generosity, the instinct to conserve what is good in our society; the importance of the rule of law and of institutions; suspicion of leaps in the dark. I am thinking of the Conservatism of Burke, Lord Salisbury, Oakeshott.

Johnson has become the leader of a project – his adviser Dominic Cummings is an important part of this – to destroy Conservatism. This is why during his brief term as prime minister Boris Johnson has attacked parliament, mocked the rule of law, abused the monarchy, and shown a total disregard for the truth.

He suppressed a report about Russian interference in British politics, then lied about the reasons. In the past few days, the prime minister has resorted to an ugly racism towards EU nationals in a last-ditch attempt to win votes. In a genuflection to Rupert Murdoch, he’s calling the BBC licence fee into question. Johnson’s Conservatives are a revolutionary sect and should be understood as such.

That’s why many traditional Conservatives have left or been driven out of the party, including David Gauke, Rory Stewart, Amber Rudd, Michael Heseltine, Ken Clarke, Matthew Parris and many others. Former prime minister John Major’s public call not to vote for Johnson was particularly powerful.

The media makes little of this. The denunciation of Jeremy Corbyn by Ian Austin, a Labour politician of negligible importance who had already left the party, got far more coverage than the cry of despair from a former Tory prime minister.

In normal circumstances I would never vote for Labour, let alone Corbyn. I still wouldn’t if I believed the terrible charge that he is an antisemite. There is a problem of antisemitism in the Labour party. And Corbyn has handled the problem badly.

I don’t deny the dreadful actions of some members of his party, but I’m not aware of evidence of Corbyn using derogatory language about Jewish people in the way that Boris Johnson routinely has against black people, gay people and Muslims.

Imagine the collective denunciations of Corbyn had he been guilty of the racist and homophobic remarks attributable to Johnson: phrases such as “piccanninies”, “watermelon smiles” and “bumboys”. There’s a double standard here.

Johnson has not shown the slightest appetite to deal with the virulent Islamophobia that poisons the Conservative party. The mainstream press in Britain has practically ignored this issue. That’s because most British newspapers are themselves Islamophobic. Johnson’s claim that his party has “zero tolerance” for Islamophobia is yet another of the cynical lies that have been the defining feature of his political campaign.

The establishment has always hated radicals like Corbyn. And it’s determined to stop him. Hence the repeated attack that Corbyn can’t be trusted on security and foreign policy.

It’s true that he opposed the three great foreign policy catastrophes of the 21st century: Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. The damage done by Iraq to our national security was huge. Corbyn was right, while Johnson and the Tory party were enthusiasts for all three.

What about Yemen? This election campaign has seen no discussion of Britain’s complicity in Saudi Arabia’s foul war. It’s a shaming omission because according to the United Nations, it has created the greatest humanitarian catastrophe of the century.

Johnson was the foreign secretary in the early stages of this conflict. He was uniquely well-placed, given that Britain was penholder at the United Nations and thanks to our alliance with Saudi Arabia, to avert the calamity. He didn’t lift a finger. Corbyn called for an end to arms sales to Saudi Arabia.

Historians will say that this election has only been about one thing: Brexit. Johnson’s election slogan – “get Brexit done” – is another of his lies. He’s a highly intelligent man and knows perfectly well that Brexit will not be solved if we leave the EU on 31 January. Trading relations with Europe will dominate politics for years to come.

Corbyn is offering a wiser solution to the Brexit problem than Boris Johnson: a final-say referendum offering a choice between remaining on existing terms or continued membership of the customs union.

By contrast, Johnson is offering a guarantee that we will leave in January, followed by a transition period lasting implausibly to the end of next year, after which we could find ourselves operating alone on World Trade Organization rules. He’s in open denial about the consequences for trade with Northern Ireland.

There will be no way back from Johnson’s Brexit. Whatever the possible economic damage inflicted by Corbyn and his chancellor John McDonnell, it will last for a maximum of five years before they can be kicked out by the electorate.

We have a strong Conservative candidate here in Brentford and Isleworth, a local woman named Seena Shah. I’ve seen her in action and in normal times I’d vote for her. Shah represents hope for the future. But she is much too good for Boris Johnson and the wrecking crew that surrounds him. I believe they want to destroy the Britain I’ve lived in and loved all my life.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 11 2019, 11:27 PM

Sooo was it reported on the BBTory news, Crazy Xmas?

BBTory have pulled the footage and had a grammatically accurate, typo-free tweet saying they don't believe Tory Laura broke the law. Well, that's for the police to decide. This isn't something the internal BBTory tram can whitewash.

Posted by: ChristmaSteve201 Dec 11 2019, 11:44 PM

That article is brillant agree with it all especially on national security and the antisemitism claims.

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 12 2019, 12:11 AM

QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 11 2019, 11:27 PM) *
Sooo was it reported on the BBTory news, Crazy Xmas?

BBTory have pulled the footage and had a grammatically accurate, typo-free tweet saying they don't believe Tory Laura broke the law. Well, that's for the police to decide. This isn't something the internal BBTory tram can whitewash.



No, not a word but they've issued a statement saying they believe she did nothing wrong.

Posted by: dancember Dec 12 2019, 12:17 AM

I see this one hasn't been posted here yet, another Tory bias report


Posted by: December Dong Dec 12 2019, 12:22 AM

I saw that earlier. VILE. Absolute Ministry of Truth pro-government BULLSHIT. 1984 is here.

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 12 2019, 12:26 AM

Surely her saying the word deserves breaks impartiality rules blatantly.

Posted by: December Dong Dec 12 2019, 12:34 AM

It does!

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Dec 12 2019, 12:36 AM

QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 12 2019, 12:34 AM) *
It does!



Well we'll see what happens then. Have you emailed Ofcom?

Posted by: vidsanta Dec 12 2019, 05:55 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris-tmas @ Dec 11 2019, 10:53 PM) *
By Peter Oborne in The Guardian.

I’ve been a loyal Conservative voter. Until very recently, I’d exclusively worked for Conservative-leaning publications: the Telegraph, Mail, London Evening Standard, Express and Spectator. Most of my friends and relations are Conservative. But I cannot vote Conservative tomorrow.

Something horrible has happened. The Conservative party lies. It cheats. It bullies. It’s not the wise, gentle, decent party of the postwar era.

I wonder whether Boris Johnson and his squalid associates are Conservatives at all. The Conservativism I understand is about public duty, generosity, the instinct to conserve what is good in our society; the importance of the rule of law and of institutions; suspicion of leaps in the dark. I am thinking of the Conservatism of Burke, Lord Salisbury, Oakeshott.


His opinion of what the Tory party was, would be like telling a kid that santa doesn't exist, at least to MM... tongue.gif


QUOTE(December Dong @ Dec 11 2019, 11:27 PM) *
Sooo was it reported on the BBTory news, Crazy Xmas?

BBTory have pulled the footage and had a grammatically accurate, typo-free tweet saying they don't believe Tory Laura broke the law. Well, that's for the police to decide. This isn't something the internal BBTory tram can whitewash.


It's also not something that can be resolved *before* the election. mellow.gif

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