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Posted by: tombliboo 12th April 2009, 03:41 PM

Welcome all BuzzJack nations to the OFFICIAL vote on Eurovision National Finalists and whether they shouldl be allowed to be enterred into the BJSC from XVI. As a result of this vote, BJSC XVI's confirmation and reservation threads shall be temporarily delayed until further notice, we would appreciate if the host of this contest could co-operate with us on this to ensure there is not confusion over this matter. We would like every single nation to have a vote on this matter to ensure any rule changes/enforcments are done so democratically, as a result this thread shall remain open for several days (Tuesday evening is the earliest it shall close, Sunday the latest) so feel free to consider your vote carefully before responding. Finally before we get down to the matter in hand, this thread shall be watched closely by all three mods to ensure there are no irresponsible responses which may break BuzzJack rules. ATTACKS ON INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

Ok, this vote is taking place to decide whether or not we should allow songs which take part in Eurovision NATIONAL finals/semi-finals should be allowed to be enterred in the BJSC. At present the rules state they may NOT be enterred. This means for example that a participator in the BJSC could not enter Big Brovaz - 'Big Bro Thang' as it took part in 'Making Your Mind Up' the UK's Eurovision selection contest. It is being proposed that we drop this rule. All Eurovision Song Contest finalists/semi-finalists shall continue to be disallowed in the BJSC for the time being.

To enable you to make your mind up we have compiled a possible arguement for and against this rule change below. This is just to give people a basic idea of the issues being discussed and I'm sure many more will arise as this discussion continues.

Arguement FOR the rule change

Eurovision Song Contest National Finalists are generally not as well known as many other songs which are allowed to be enterred into the contest and so it is not as much of an advantage as it had previously been to enter one. This is especially the case since the BJSC forum was detached from the Eurovision forum.

Arguement AGAINST the rule change

The BuzzJack Eurovision forum is followed very closely by many contestants in the BJSC, as a result Eurovision Song Contest National Finalists will be well known to many especially tracks from the UK's NFs and the infamous Melodifestivalen. As a result these potentially 'cheap' songs may have an advantage over many other entries and create a greater scope for cheap songs in the contest.

These are only potential arguements and do not represent both sides of the debate fully

So, do YOU think Eurovision National Final entries should be allowed in the BJSC? DISCUSS

Please keep all discussions on this in this topic so that we can monitor everything more easily and let's start the debate!

Posted by: nickthenoodle 12th April 2009, 03:43 PM

Personally I think yes, very few members actually follow Eurovision avidly so NF songs would be great discoveries for several members.

Posted by: James. 12th April 2009, 03:48 PM

I'm going to vote No on this one - mainly after the kerfuffle it caused before and i also think it would lead to unfair bias from certain members

Posted by: Pavel 12th April 2009, 03:54 PM

Of course - yes! Only a small number of Eurovision obsessives actually follow MF/etc. Plus each year the number of people seriously liking Eurovision decreases. All because of the 'it's all political' stereotype. PLUS (again) Eurovision season is quite short so 3 (at a hard) months is tolerable :/

Yeah.

Posted by: nickthenoodle 12th April 2009, 03:57 PM

Oh I must add that I respect whatever the result of the vote is

Posted by: Mikey-Mac! 12th April 2009, 03:57 PM

YES! BJ is completely different to ESC... so not many follow it... so it's still new discoveries... I'd ban cheap entries before I banned NF entries!

Posted by: Pavel 12th April 2009, 03:58 PM

Unlike me

Posted by: gooddelta 12th April 2009, 03:59 PM

FSR Rontvia votes yes, for many reasons I have gone into before but won't reiterate at length again...

I don't see a problem with it as only a tiny handful of us follow these songs anyway, and it's not like us Euroloons like every single song in every single national final if this years 32 Melodifestivalen entries all appeared in a BJSC context, I would only consider voting for about 7 of them, which is hardly a lot out of that amount is it!?!

Posted by: gooddelta 12th April 2009, 04:03 PM

except 'cheap songs' would be a lot harder to bundle into groups to be able to ban than the dreaded lergy of the Eurovision rejects group so banning 'cheap' songs would probably not be feasible at all...

Posted by: Sabrewulf238 12th April 2009, 04:05 PM

I'm voting yes, I don't see how the "cheap" advantage of a eurovision national final song could be any worse then the "cheap" advantage of a song like Womanizer for example which isn't banned. (although I doubt anyone would send it )

Posted by: nickthenoodle 12th April 2009, 04:09 PM

Damn there goes my XVI entry

Posted by: Robot 12th April 2009, 04:18 PM

*prays this doesn't turn into an argument* I say no.

Posted by: Jester 12th April 2009, 04:21 PM

PRJ votes yes.

There are so few songs that would appeal anyway, and it is a shame to not let people discover some gems through this medium. I can understand banning Final songs, but NF songs is taking it a bit far.

Of course, as others have said, I will respect the majority decision.

Posted by: Jonjo 12th April 2009, 04:23 PM

What's the point? It's lasted 15 contests without this vote.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" IMO.

Posted by: thisispop 12th April 2009, 04:27 PM

Yes.

But to be awkward I propose having a rule that no NF songs from that year can be entered into the BJSC until after that year's ESC has finished in May.

I.E. In this example 2009 NF songs should not be eligible for nomination until the June BJSC (XVII).

Posted by: Simon. 12th April 2009, 04:28 PM

Yes then I can send Cara Mia

Posted by: Pavel 12th April 2009, 04:29 PM

But implementing this rule may make the contest more interesting/better/etc. Didn't you think about it?

Serfdom lasted several thousand of years: if it ain't broken don't fix it?! :/

Posted by: Pavel 12th April 2009, 04:30 PM

Good point actually imo! I'm for it as well!

Posted by: gooddelta 12th April 2009, 04:34 PM

I was considering at least 3 songs from MF 2007 although that wasn't one of them...I do love it though

Posted by: CremeEgg 12th April 2009, 05:05 PM

Yes, I really don't see why they shouldn't be allowed.
Songs are songs. Simple as.

Posted by: gooddelta 12th April 2009, 05:13 PM

a convincing argument but hits the nail on the head perfectly

Posted by: pyryniemi 12th April 2009, 05:16 PM

If this gets allowed, I will withdraw and I will never come back.

Posted by: JackJones 12th April 2009, 05:19 PM

Certainly 100% yes. I mean songs like Jai Ho! in this competition and Love Story in last are allowed but not some pretty random tracks from national finals that are known here by like maybe 5 people who follow those finals. That's just silly....there are so many songs to be discovered by most in this competition from national finals but now those are not allowed but world-wide no 1 hits that basically everyone knows can be entered.

Posted by: LiamOrrico 12th April 2009, 05:27 PM

Have you even been around lately?

Posted by: Jester 12th April 2009, 05:29 PM

Why? Is that not a bit childish?

Posted by: Cal 12th April 2009, 05:33 PM

I vote Yes.

• There are many NF songs that aren't that well known to a lot of people.
• I see no difference in sending an NF song when somebody sends a song that has been a famous chart topper in 20 countries. It doesn't make sense.
• If you are all killed telling people it's "all about the song" then NF songs shouldn't be excluded as they are songs.
• There are hundreds of NF songs that even I don't know about, so I wouldn't be biased when voting. If I like it, I'll vote for it, if I hate it, I won't vote for it.
• If NF entries are banned because "they are already popular" then we should ban "cheap" entries because they are already popular.
• The "allowing NF songs is making this into a Eurovision contest" argument is null and void. This is based on the Eurovision. You use the same voting structure, ffs.

There are many more but they are branch arguments to the ones above.

Posted by: gooddelta 12th April 2009, 05:36 PM

I agree with all of these points

Posted by: CremeEasterEgg 12th April 2009, 05:44 PM

I know that's it's a pretty simple argument, but I'm pleased you agree with it!

Posted by: tombliboo 12th April 2009, 06:38 PM

I'm sure many would like to know why you feel this way and I certainly hope you won't withdraw

Posted by: LiamOrrico 12th April 2009, 06:44 PM

The childish person threatening to withdraw... how many NF sound haven't you heard? Including Romania, Albania, Bulgaria, and others which aren't really public with their NFs like MF?

Posted by: gooddelta 12th April 2009, 06:46 PM

without wishing to answer on anyone's behalf, Fervorosia are also in ESCToday's 'Nation Song Contest', where sending an ESC National Final song would be the equivalent of somebody here sending Poker Face to XVI...so I can see Pyryniemi's reservations about the idea

although obviously both contests are completely different and what works in one may not work so well in the other

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 12th April 2009, 06:46 PM

I voted yes. Pop songs are pop songs... what does it matter where they came from? Someone may easily find an NF song and fall in love with it even if they never watched Eurovision...

Posted by: Medicated Soap 12th April 2009, 06:52 PM

No from me for reasons I've mentioned before, but I'm not overly fussed how this ends up.

Posted by: Pavel 12th April 2009, 06:55 PM

I'm sure MF isn't public either. It just gets much more audience.

Posted by: gooddelta 12th April 2009, 06:56 PM

indeed, apart from a few random fanboys (myself included), it doesn't particularly generate any extra media coverage outside of Sweden

Posted by: tombliboo 12th April 2009, 07:24 PM

None of that please, you may insult the arguement but not the person saying it

Posted by: gooddelta 12th April 2009, 07:51 PM

wasn't there something else we were supposed to vote on too before the next contest!?! something Tron proposed that I don't recall currently

*searches* oh yes, the teaming up with people to vote in both semi-finals idea

Posted by: tombliboo 12th April 2009, 08:00 PM

Did we not dismiss this as really very stupid?

Posted by: gooddelta 12th April 2009, 08:01 PM

I know I did by saying something along the lines of 'let's leave this discussion until later and sweep it under the carpet'

Posted by: tombliboo 12th April 2009, 08:11 PM

We modders are very willing to take suggestions/rule changes through PMs if people want to suggest them. If they are reasonable and have good support we have agreed we will put them to the vote

Posted by: Jerick 12th April 2009, 09:42 PM

Tinnmark had a national poll first, were 88.42:% voted YES and 12.58% voted NO

Posted by: The Fear 12th April 2009, 09:56 PM

Republique d'Ashton votes YES.

We find the rule to be discriminatory, and in our modern culture discrimination = bad

Posted by: Ms Keri's Baby 12th April 2009, 10:43 PM

Why on EARTH shouldn't they be? BJSC is entirely seperate from the real Eurovision. This being, y'know... a game. On the internet.

Posted by: LiamOrrico 12th April 2009, 10:47 PM

I think yes is the answer, if no was to win, it would be winning now... so END THE POLL SO PEOPLE CAN RESERVE PLEASE

(I wasn't shouting, I was talking... with a microphone)

Posted by: pyryniemi 12th April 2009, 11:01 PM

I think this is a very stupid idea. I don't know how to put it into the words, but these songs are made for Eurovision and only for Eurovision.
In the next edition, most people start sending big favourites from such crappy pre-selections like Melodifestivalen and others with not-so-known songs will be disadvantaged.
+, have you ever thought, why BJSC is on the same forum as Eurovision?
Anyway, I'M STRONGLY AGAINST.

Posted by: RabbitFurCoat 12th April 2009, 11:02 PM

I null voted. On one hand they should probably be in there, but on the other, purely selfish hand, I won't be able to stand 95% of the songs it makes eligible and there's already enough dross in BJSC anyway!

Posted by: The Fear 12th April 2009, 11:02 PM

we've been a stand alone forum for months

Posted by: pyryniemi 12th April 2009, 11:04 PM

???

Your Choice -> Retro + Eurovision Forum + Buzzjack Song Contest

Posted by: The Fear 12th April 2009, 11:07 PM

we were a ESC sub forum,

now we are a stand alone forum. I.E. cutting our last strong link to ESC other than common posters

Posted by: Jerick 12th April 2009, 11:08 PM

Why wasnt this poll made when comformation thread closed?

Posted by: Mart!n 12th April 2009, 11:10 PM

I voted No, some members would rather send some decent music rather dross from actual Eurovision countries, what's the point. Mind you there was some dross in BJSC15, which I was amazed that got thru to the final.

Posted by: Jonny 12th April 2009, 11:15 PM

101% of people voted then?

I'm not too bothered about this. I think people should be allowed to enter any song they want. At the end of the day if people are apposed to allowing NF songs they just don't vote for them?

Posted by: Addy Petros 13th April 2009, 08:10 AM

Posted by: Robot 13th April 2009, 09:17 AM

I can just imagine a few people favouring the ESC songs because they love ESC, I may be wrong, but that's just my personal opinion.

And, I'm dreading looking through 10 incredibly cheesy songs.

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 13th April 2009, 10:45 AM

I know what you're saying, but yours wasn't really the height of cred either (Gaga-esque glasses or no)...

Posted by: nickthenoodle 13th April 2009, 10:54 AM

That just shows how much people in Tinnmark care

Posted by: AlCALzar. 13th April 2009, 11:44 AM

What's the difference between a NF song which about 10 people know, and a song everybody knows that has been a top ten hit in 15 countries? The top ten hit is guaranteed to get high points and has a 99.9% of getting into the final, whilst the relatively unknown NF failure could go either way. I might want to enter a song that came 16th in the Yugoslavian NF back in 1988, but I can't, but you can enter a current #1 hit? And many songs that have been entered here were pure dirge, so I think the "NF songs are cheesy" debate really goes out the window.

If it's "all about the song" (which many if you stated during the "cheap" debate) then surely it can be applied to songs that took part in a National Final?

I don't mind the outcome of this at all. But if the majority of the people want NF songs banned then I want "cheap" songs banned because, quite frankly, it's unfair, hypocritical, not to mention cherry picking.

Now I'm going to take some happy pills because I'm in dire need of them.

Posted by: The Fear 13th April 2009, 12:08 PM

I agree it is completely hypocritical to sit and argue against restrictions on cheap songs and then say we shouldn't allow NF songs

Posted by: Pavel 13th April 2009, 12:17 PM

It's pretty close atm

Posted by: The Fear 13th April 2009, 12:18 PM

i know.

i'm hoping it'll go to the yes's we never should have had the rule in the first place

Posted by: Sabrewulf238 13th April 2009, 12:25 PM

I really hope yes wins as a song is a song at the end of the day and the arguement that nf songs will have an advantage is absolutly ridiculous, most of them are known by very few that take part in BJSC.

A rule like this banning nf songs might hold water at Esctoday forums (where the original rules came from) since the whole reason (more or less) people are there is because of Eurovision but here things are different and I truly believe a song should be allowed enter and be judged fairly without disaproving comments being made everywhere.

In fact I think the entire paranoia about cheap songs/Esc songs being unfair entries as they have an advantage is a whole lot a hooey. :/

For Example, I can't Say I liked Love Story overly (it was a nice enough song) but I feel a song like this should be allowed entry without people making jokes about how cheap it is and there being a "I'm so disapointed in you for sending this song" feeling going around. Because it does happen to some degree and I feel it's horrid that any song can be automatically judged like this just because it's already popular.

Imo if a song is truly amazing it will beat a song like "Womanizer", "Love Story" or "Just Dance" any day of the week...........in fact this gives me an idea....

Posted by: RabbitFurCoat 13th April 2009, 12:27 PM

I would LOVE restrictions against cheap entries, but considering almost every single person who enters this has a different view of what 'cheap' is it would be almost impossible. A ban Eurovision entries is far, far easier to implement.

Posted by: Jonjo 13th April 2009, 12:31 PM

You have just worded that TEN TIMES better than what I could! LOL I've been sat here trying to think up something so similar (Maybe I was thinking TOO hard??) but you've just made it... simple LOL

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 13th April 2009, 12:32 PM

Yes, but just because you can, doesn't mean you should. The way I see it, is that this is a way of promoting new music, and letting people hear your favourite songs, which they might not know. With ESC NF songs that's possible, but it's very unlikely that someone would be new to Jai Ho or Love Story.

Oh and no-one wants to enter ACTUAL Eurovision entries

Posted by: Jerick 13th April 2009, 12:47 PM

Wow, very many people are going to get pissed off, it's a so close battle!

Posted by: Harve 13th April 2009, 01:38 PM

Even if Yes voters lose then they won't get AS pissed because the rule's been there for ages.

Posted by: Addy Petros 13th April 2009, 01:38 PM

*opens the other 5 accounts*

LOL just playin...anyway I hope this wont go...I just cant stand all these NF crap...Tone,Velvet Inc etc etc.

Posted by: Pavel 13th April 2009, 01:42 PM

LOL. Just LOL.

Posted by: James. 13th April 2009, 01:43 PM

How long is this vote open for?

Posted by: Addy Petros 13th April 2009, 01:43 PM

are u attacking me

Posted by: Jonjo 13th April 2009, 01:45 PM

Why has it just become such a big deal now anyway?

Posted by: Pavel 13th April 2009, 01:47 PM

Read first post plsthxbai


I don't 'attack' anyone. I just don't understand how any can call it so without actually listening to the songs. This arguement isn't counted for explanation.

Posted by: thisispop 13th April 2009, 01:59 PM

To be honest if you (& others) feel that way about NF songs, then all you need to do is not award them any points in the Contests.

The only reason I voted Yes, is that I think it is ridiculous how songs that are in the UK Top 10 chart can be nominated; yet you cannot nominate a song that 90% of the players had not previously heard.

Posted by: RabbitFurCoat 13th April 2009, 02:11 PM

Well quite. I never said the rule should be in place, I was just answering his question. NF songs are banned because they always have been and it's only now people have bothered to question it, whilst cheap songs aren't banned because it would be virtually impossible to do so as everyone will have a different determination of what is cheap.

Posted by: Addy Petros 13th April 2009, 04:03 PM

but why u think I never listened to those songs...mostly they are rubbish in big capitals

Posted by: Mart!n 13th April 2009, 04:21 PM

What gets me the most is why have existing singles that are in the chart for example Love Story, Jai Ho in the competition as most voters don't vote for them, I didn't even vote for Jai Ho in the final, on the sheer basis of it, you would think members would learn by now, they simply don't work once you are in the final, I can't wait for someone to pick Ercola now with Every Word or Love Sex and Magic, they just simply fail.

Posted by: Aaron* 13th April 2009, 05:52 PM

No, they want to enter songs that weren't good enough for Eurovision, even better eh?

I know the main argument for adding NF songs is "people have sent 'Love Story' and 'Jai Ho', how are these more cheap?!". I'm not saying they are more cheap, they're not, but they are still fairly cheap in a different dimension. They're songs aimed at the Eurovision crowd. A crowd this contest was initially aimed at, it's the fact that the roots of this contest are quite Eurovision based. Just like if this contest was launched on a Britney forum I would expect a ban on Britney songs or if Buzzjack was an X Factor fansite, I would think a ban on X Factor contestants to be in place.

Things have changed and the contest is much less Eurovision based but we still have Rich, Pavel, Tyron, David, Sabrewulf, Peter, Cal and Jerick at least as regulars (or on/off) entrants to the contest. It doesn't mean that they're going to automaticaly like every NF song (of course they wont) but no one is going to be sending the awful entries, probably the ones you all love.

Are these artists so bad that they can only be defined by their one or two entries to a past NF? The answer is no. Sanna, Maria HS, Sibel, Haffi Haff, Dima Bilan, Alcazar, Ani Lorak etc. have all been used in NFs or actual Eurovision and have made the BJSC with alternate songs. I don't see the issue in downloading raiding their albums to see if they have an equally 'amazing' track if they're so good.

I think Mark put it best really...

I'm surprised how close this, it's certainly no landslide. Even if yes wins, it's been quite close and it's much easier to vote yes than no. If you vote yes it could be "yes, but I'm really not bothered" and the no voters would generally disagree, rather than voting to be a bitch.

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 13th April 2009, 06:24 PM

Same question, names reversed

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 13th April 2009, 07:10 PM

Bit personal isn't it! I don't think Ercola is cheap, because it flopped and not that many have heard it. I don't know if I will choose it in the end though.

As foe the not-good-enough-for-Eurovision argument, I think people are following the blinkered BBC view of ESC, that it's just a joke and full of trash. But in Europe, it's something of great importance and pride, and that great songwriters and artists try to enter in, and sometimes fail. Basically were arguing here over whether or not we can enter pop songs which are among the best in Europe. To me, it makes no sense to vote no.

Posted by: Angelic Shine 13th April 2009, 07:11 PM

It's a no from me because of the selfish view that I follow the main countries that are likely to have songs entered. I'm not overly bothered if they are allowed though, there's probably some that I would considered entering. I can only imagine NF songs being used in the next contest and possibly the two before Eurovision each year so it doesn't make much difference whether they are allowed or not.

Posted by: gooddelta 13th April 2009, 07:17 PM

good point just because a song doesn't win the national final doesn't instantly make it awful...only 1 song can win in Melodifestivalen out of 32, that doesn't mean by default the other 31 are bad on the contrary, the winner Malena Ernman has had nowhere near the biggest selling MF related single in Sweden this year. E.M.D.'s Baby Goodbye was No.1 for 3 weeks despite only coming 3rd in the contest, I don't think anyone in Sweden views it as 'a Eurovision loser'

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 13th April 2009, 07:23 PM

Thanks. Sorry for my spelling, using web on phone

Posted by: Medicated Soap 13th April 2009, 07:24 PM

I agree with this, pretty much.

Again, I'm not overly fussed is they get unbanned, but I'd be a bit apprehensive about the next contest. Obviously with the rule unbanned there will be a flood of NF entries and maybe in the next contest none, but I'd hate to see the same people voting for the same songs. :/ And like Aaron said, while I don't think people will automatically vote for NF songs, they're going to send the ones they know other people already like. I can't really imagine that the people who don't already like Eurovision will suddenly fall in love with these songs. Like I said, out of all the songs I've ever heard entered into the competition, Divine is the only one I've ever liked. The rest of them sound cheesy and ridiculous honestly. And I already liked Sebastien Tellier. It's nothing against foreign songs / different languages whatsoever (some of my favorite artists are foreign: Bjork, Shugo Tokumaru, Sigur Ros, etc.) I just honestly doubt that a song that didn't even make the competition will change my mind.

I understand that cheap entries are allowed which can be unfortunate, but usually in each contest only one does well. Yes, we had Jai Ho but other than that nearly the entire final was cheap free. Love Story bombed in the last competition. There's always going to be a 'cheap' entry, but the more unknown songs tend to pull through in the end. I don't really think it's an issue. None have won, which is a good thing (yes Love Story and I Kissed a Girl have won, but those won weeks before they were hits).

Posted by: gooddelta 13th April 2009, 07:32 PM

Love Song I should have sent that way earlier too, it was in the top 3 of my chart in November 2007 before I even knew it would be a hit in the US so I don't know why I didn't send it to BJSCI in all honesty

Posted by: Cál 13th April 2009, 07:55 PM

I don't think voting Yes is easier. It's just making the contest more open.

I do understand how annoying it would be to have a contest with 15 NF songs in it. However, I don't think it would get that bad. I'd only enter an NF entry when I feel it's the right time. I know for a fact I'm not going to jump in and send one immediately. There are many more entries I'd like to send first that are totally Eurovision unrelated.

As for NF songs appealing to one particular bunch of people, I don't think that's really how it is. That's like saying only Britney songs would appeal to Britney fans. I'm no Brit fan, but some songs are listenable.

And who cares if people vote for it? What's wrong with voting for a song you like? You vote for "cheap" songs and then complain about how cheap they are, so meh to that. And the NF songs I like rarely appeal to larger crowds, so I wouldn't be submitting a song on the basis of everybody will love it. I adore two NF songs, but I don't think anybody here actually liked them, so my entry would be purely because I like it.

Posted by: gooddelta 13th April 2009, 08:06 PM

good point of course it's easy to argue 'oh well Pavel and Rich will vote for it just because it's Eurovision and they're Eurovision fans'. At the same time, artists like Robyn, Pussycat Dolls, Girls Aloud etc...already have established fanbases on BJ so are obviously going to have an instant advantage over a completely unknown act...

I can apprecitate that entering a widely liked ESC NF song would be another way to potentially gain an advantage in the contest, but how is this different to the obvious advantage gained by sending a highly anticipated leaked new single by a superstar or Buzzjack favourite

and whatever advantage it had would most certainly be outweighed by the disadvantage of having the 18 no voters in this poll boycotting the songs at the voting stage anyway

Posted by: martyn 13th April 2009, 08:13 PM

Farahtyn votes yes, a bet the fact we actualy voted shocked most of u

Posted by: Aaron* 13th April 2009, 11:39 PM

I suppose you have a point. I don't think Eurovision is trash but they kinda have to be listened to in context. Sweden's entry, "Hero", last year was typical schlager. In terms of Eurovision entries it was quite fun and rather epic. But a year later, listening to it out of context makes it feel a bit trashy. I'll still listen to some of last years Eurovision entries but it's not the sort of thing I'd vote for in the BJSC.

As a Eurovision song Sanna's "Nobody Without You" would be a great entry, but in the BJSC I don't find it exciting. I think I have it a couple of points in the semi, but there was more worthy songs in the final. I guess that does make me sound a bit of a snob. Basically my expectations in the BJSC are much higher than they are in Eurovision, I expect a different kind of song here.


But it is. Obviously people who vote yes will feel strongly about it, but it's also quite easy to say yes if you're in the middle. Maybe there should have been a middle ground option - it would probably win.

Well obviously they have the possibility of branching out to other people, but Eurovision is quite a specific thing with a big fanbase. It's not quite like sending Britney, but it's fairly similar. Artists with big fanbases rarely do well anyway. The most recent entries by Britney, Rihanna and Girls Aloud all 'flopped'. Sure, Britney won the first contest and Girls Aloud have finished 3rd, but I doubt anyone will send them. It's almost an unwritten rule, the second someone goes to reserve Britney, Rihanna, Leona etc. they received pleas to send something else...

Perhaps you wouldn't send NF songs everyone liked. But while they were briefly allowed, people rushed to reserve very well respected NF songs by Cyndi, Leona Daly and Tone. Even I know people kicked up a bit of a fuss at the first two missing out. (I know people basically love Alexander anyway)


The thing is with these 'unknown acts' is that Eurovision has a big following here, it's unlikely that people wouldn't have at least heard of them. It's not quite like PCD having a fanbase though. I think people still need to send GOOD songs by these artists. As I said Girls Aloud, Rihanna, Britney (arguably the three biggest artists on Buzzjack) have had their fair share of flops recently.

It's no different to sending a newly leaked single by a Buzzjack favourite, but why would you want to add more advantages? Especially when it's getting harder to qualify recently. If people can have more advantages, they'll start getting more desperate and start sending even MORE cheap entries. Hey, if you can finish 7th with a current top 3 hit, why should we worry trying to find something more obscure? Let's just send "Love Sex Magic" and be done with.

Anyway, we haven't really had an anticipated new leak sent for some time. "So What" was the last one I can remember. Jonjo's entry prevented "Womanizer", MLWSWY leaked too late and "Forgive Me", "The Promise" and "Keeps Gettin' Better" had others pleading that people didn't send them.

I really fail to understand why people want them suddenly? I know they've been pined for in the past, but they've found album tracks and done really well with them. It seems like a lot more people than expected (I thought there would be about 3 no voters) object to this, yet nearly no one has problems with people sending "Nobody Without You" etc. I don't know why people would be so desperate to send these sorts of songs with 18 people already thinking it's a bad idea and that's before you consider that the yes voters wont necessarily like your song.

OH and in the likely event that yes ends up winning. I urge the moderators to ban entries from the last three years. I know this is just another stipulation, but at least it's long enough for people to be less crazed about them.

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 14th April 2009, 06:27 AM

When was the ban repealed originally? I know that there was a possibility to enter NF songs except those from the UK, Ireland and Sweden during the buildup to BJSCXV - was it true for BJSCXIV too?

Posted by: tombliboo 14th April 2009, 06:58 AM

The rule has always been in place but I believe has gone relatively unchallenged until the last couple of contests.

Posted by: gooddelta 14th April 2009, 07:07 AM

there was one occasion that a Melodifestivalen song 'somehow' slipped through the net (when I was hosting no less in V) and BWO's Temple Of Love came in an impressive 2nd place instantly proving the validity of these tacky low budget Eurovision motivated productions

Posted by: The Fear 14th April 2009, 07:44 AM

I can't remember when but it was recently scaled down to be just the UK, Ireland and Sweden banned. an then the attempt to remove it fully did not go well.

Yes has it at 23-18 right now, with 42 votes in total.

I must say everyone's done pretty well not to let it descend into nasty arguments!

Posted by: gooddelta 14th April 2009, 07:46 AM

I have decided that I won't be using or considering any ESC National Final songs this month now

Posted by: Cál 14th April 2009, 08:49 AM

Yeah, but if I'm going to be picky, voting Yes if you're in the middle is fairer. Keeping a ban on these songs will most likely strengthen the opposition to the ban. You're being told you can't enter X, but somebody can send Y which was a top 10 hit in numerous countries. Lifting this rule would be lifting restrictions on some good songs (There are some truly awful NF songs which deserve to come last, imo).

This is for everybody in favor of the ban: I don't see something here, and maybe I'm blind, but how exactly is it fair to ban NF songs and allow other songs which could possibly have a huge fan base on this forum? I've seen some godawful chart songs get into the final, and a few really good songs lose out because of them. I find the mentality a bit hypocritical. One reason for disallowing NF songs is because they could potentially have a fanbase, but chart toppers which already have a large fanbase are allowed. Surely if it's "all about the song", which a lot of you stood by during the "cheap" debate, then you should apply that to NF songs too?

I really don't mind the outcome. But if "cheap" songs are allowed, then I'd like restrictions. We are all quite capable of putting restrictions on NF songs, I'm sure we could find a way to put restrictions on "cheap" songs. Restricting that type of song isn't difficult.

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 14th April 2009, 09:51 AM

Me too tbh. except Snalla Snalla. The MF/etc obsession is starting to get down to zero, being replaced by the actual eurovision one

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 10:09 AM

What the hell are you on about? Have you even HEARD some of the stuff in Melodifestivalen? I can guarantee that you'd like at least a few of the songs, and to my mind you have definitely liked Eurovision songs before...

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 10:20 AM

I can, to a degree, see what you mean, but don't necessarily see it as an argument against banning these songs - in some cases the song submitted to Eurovision is one of the best on the album, and as Rich has said before, ones that have been sent (Nobody Without You etc.) were probably in contention for entry along with Empty Room et al. Would you have banned Will You Remember Me Tomorrow? on the basis that it could have been a potential entry, or Agnes' Release Me? (Yes, I know they weren't but bear with me ) These are songs that are amongst the defining ones of the competition, yet had they been in contention for a separate contest, and not even gone through, they wouldn't have been allowed.

And by the way, the argument that if it doesn't get sent to Eurovision it must be worse is a load of crap. Are we now saying that Scooch/Dustin had inherently better songs than Cyndi/Leona just because they were sent? Let's have it done with and just go argumentum ad populum with it all and proclaim Crazy Frog superior to Coldplay!

I think a post-Eurovision clause would be enough - by the same token, we would ban anything from the past three years in case people were crazed about them Having it so that the entries can't be sent until after the Eurovision of that year would be enough, no?

And looking at half the arguments of the no-voters, they're arguing from a rather blinkered base of 'if it didn't make Eurovision it must be $h!t. BAN IT.' - hardly a credible argument when we allow pretty much anything non-Eurovision in

Posted by: Robot 14th April 2009, 11:22 AM

I don't really care. Like, I said before, I voted no. I was just thinking to myself, people are moaning about cheap songs all the time, and saying how you think it's annoying that they do well, and you may aswell just enter a chart song, etc etc.

But, from my view, Eurovision songs are fairly cheap also, but yet, it seems as if, if its Eurovision cheap then its alright. It's nowhere near chart-cheap, I understand this, but it is cheap to an extent.

I can just see loads of people wanting to send Eurovision entries now, which to me seems a shame. But, that's speaking on behalf of myself only.

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 14th April 2009, 11:29 AM

Who are these 'loads'? Already me and Rich NOT wanting to send anything means something

Posted by: Cál 14th April 2009, 11:52 AM

But if we're willing to disallow Eurovision failures because they're "cheap to an extent", then how can we allow songs that are just plain "cheap"? It just seems unfair and a load of empty talk, tbh.

Like I said before, I'm not fussed, and I probably won't use one, but I just think it's unfair that those types of entries are blacklisted for flawed reasons.

Posted by: LiamOrrico 14th April 2009, 12:42 PM

What's going on now? Is this poll still open? *shocked*

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 14th April 2009, 12:58 PM

I think not everyone has voted. Hence it's 'still open' :/

Posted by: Jonjo 14th April 2009, 01:21 PM

There isn't an exact definition of "Cheap". If we all had the same idea about what "cheap" songs were then sure, I'll be all for banning it, but people view it differently, so it's quite hard to pin-point what is exactly cheap. Whereas NF/Eurovision related songs all fit into one category so it's easier to enforce the ban.

If there was a go ahead to ban present Top 75 UK Hits and US Billboard Hot 100 Top 20, and UK Top 40 hits of the past year or something, then I'll be up for that ban. (I said Top 25 because when 'Jai Ho' and 'Love Story' were confirmed as participants, they were currently charting at 20 & 22 in the UK Charts)

(I hope the above made sense )

Posted by: Mart!n 14th April 2009, 01:24 PM

Calm down... I do like some of them but why use a Eurovsion song in a BJSC comp surely it defeats the purpose of having a BJSC, I thought its meant to be different and discovering new music and new talent. I have discovered 2 new tracks from Rivandia this week, and I totally love, but not everyone is going to vote for them.

Posted by: Addy Petros 14th April 2009, 01:25 PM

but how many people we are expecting to vote???

Posted by: Cál 14th April 2009, 01:57 PM

I get what you're saying. But I'd like to see the ban lifted because it's only fair. People shouldn't have the entrenched view of NF songs as "popular, cheesy, and will automatically win" because that's far from the truth. My favourite NF song wouldn't even get passed the Semi Final because it's not in English and it's an acquired taste (like mustard ). And there is NO WAY I'm entering crap like Amy Diamond or E.M.D

If people are ready to brand NF failures cheap (which they aren't because they don't even chart in the UK or US), then surely they should come up with a definition as to what is cheap in terms on normal entries? Whatever way this poll goes, can we please have another vote for "cheap" songs because we are never going to come up with a popular definition by sitting around. A poll with 6 popular "cheap" definitions and we all vote? And if we do come up with a official definition then we can have a thread called "Is your song cheap?", so if people are unsure they could just ask?

I'm waffling.

Posted by: Medicated Soap 14th April 2009, 01:59 PM

But like you said, they weren't LOL. That's like saying 'Would you have banned Los Campesinos! if they were sent to Eurovision?' They never would be lawlz.

To me, all of these Eurovision songs and potential Eurovision songs all have the exact same formula to me. They just SOUND Eurovision. They were all written with the song contest in mind, so they all come off like incredibly cheesy Europop.

I guess I just feel that the people who don't already like Eurovision won't like the NF songs entered, and the people who do like Eurovision will have already heard them. So it just all feels a bit pointless in the end. And the fact that a NF song was entered once and finished 2nd place worries me. In the end, I suppose it really doesn't matter, and I'm not really fussed how it ends up. This is just how I feel as of now, and the next contest could completely disprove my worries for all I know.

I just really hate Eurovision LOL. But I will judge all songs fairly obviously when they do get unbanned (which is what it looks like will happen).

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 14th April 2009, 03:18 PM

There have been 51 entries this time = 51 countries = 51 persons. I reckon this will be closed as soon as we reach the closer number to 51 than we have now. I don't know though, of course, it's our mods' decision.

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 03:43 PM

Yes, but tell me this. Have you ever heard Leona Daly - Not Crazy After All? Mans Zelmerlow - Cara Mia? Maria Haukaas Storeng & Sahlene - Killing Me Tenderly? No? Then, if they're entered, you'll be discovering something!

Eurovision NF songs are only cheap in the sense that new R&B songs are - we have a fairly strong R&B bloc (MKL, JRK-off, Lorikeet, Quotosibb, Torchwood to an extent, amongst others), yet we don't ever decry any R&B entries such as Shontelle as being 'cheap'. Would we ban them because they have likely support and have been heard before? No. Would we claim them to be cheap? No! So why, just because ESC NF entries have potential support, do we claim them to be cheap? It's a nonsense...


Yes, but Agnes has entered Melodifestivalen with similar songs - Release Me would likely have been considered were it not too long I'm not sure if Margaret has ever entered MGP, but it wouldn't surprise me.


Granted, a lot of the Melodifestivalen fare is quite generic, but this would widen the spectrum to allow anything from Portugal to Israel. Does the following sound like typical ESC fare to you?



Potential Irish entry there - hardly the generic sort of thing you're fearing, no? (Marmite vocal in the chorus aside ) Or even this, from France, which has been entered for this year's contest, but likely has other similar songs from Patricia:



NF entries aren't all schlager!

Posted by: James. 14th April 2009, 03:44 PM

How exactly am I in an RnB block?! Last time I checked not one of my entries went in that category... maybe BoA..

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 03:45 PM

I meant the sort of country that would vote for an RnB entry

Posted by: Ms Keri's Baby 14th April 2009, 03:47 PM

Shontelle wasn't really cheap at the time. Slightly strange dig.

Posted by: James. 14th April 2009, 03:48 PM

Oh OK

To be honest, I really resent people saying (I know you aren't saying it, I'm just bringing up the point in general) that Me, Mikal, Jark, Jon etc. all vote for each other when we just have a similar taste in music.. Like we're all likely to vote for an RnB entry as you point out, or a poppy entry.. NOT OUR FAULT.

I know that wasn't really relevant, you just reminded me

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 14th April 2009, 03:49 PM

Surely Janet Jackson is not rnb

*stays calm not to argue about the topic of the thread*

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 03:51 PM

That was the point I was making, ugh! It wasn't cheap just because it appealed to a certain bloc of countries who would likely have heard it; as Eurovision NF entries wouldn't be cheap just because they appeal to a certain bloc of countries who would likely have heard it...

Posted by: Sabrewulf238 14th April 2009, 03:58 PM

I think it's wrong to try and ban any song from being entered in this contest period!

Why should anyone have the right to dictate what should and shouldn't be entered?

Of Course we'd all love people to choose unknown songs but they shouldn't be forced into picking unknown songs.

The same goes for NF songs, some people might prefer if others didn't enter them but those people shouldn't be forcing the other people not to send them

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 04:04 PM

I appreciate that it would probably be a bridge too far to propose the debanning of Eurovision songs as well, hence why I don't Plus, that's a potential spin-off, so...

Posted by: Robot 14th April 2009, 04:13 PM

Not being funny, but nobody makes a problem when they vote yes, but as soon as someone votes no, you get 6 people quoting you and saying why you are wrong to say this.

Posted by: Sabrewulf238 14th April 2009, 04:14 PM

I don't think it would.

In fact This rule, banning Eurovision songs in General is an awful Rule. It forces people into not picking a eurovision song even if they love it to bits.

If Someone wants to send Serebro with thier eurovision song to the contest, why shouldn't they be allowed? I mean why really shouldn't they be allowed?

A person should have the right to send ANY song they want to the contest and it is not for the Mods or The participants to decide but is a right in itself to have free choice!

Who are we to say this can be entered and this can't be entered?

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 04:15 PM

Because the yes camp are the ones with the imperative, seeing as the no camp are the ones saying the rule shouldn't be changed...

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 14th April 2009, 04:17 PM

... provided that the 'no' voter actually expresses their opinion in this thread.

Plus you don't HAVE TO reply anything on that :/

Posted by: David 14th April 2009, 04:19 PM

I'd like it if NF songs were allowed in it tbh, but so many arguments are going to appear if they are allowed, so I just voted no to save all the $h!t.

Posted by: Robot 14th April 2009, 04:20 PM

But, there's always a reason why the no camps reasons aren't good enough. It should be just accepted that we think differently rather than point out why we were wrong to make our opinion. It's just as valid as all the people saying yes.

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 04:21 PM

Then we would reach no conclusion whatsoever if neither camp tried to persuade the other and show them why their points were wrong

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 04:22 PM

That's what this thread is for David What arguments would there be once they were allowed?

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 14th April 2009, 04:23 PM

Good point! Surprisingly, people react on this topic as if they are being stabbed or something (i.e. I'd withdraw if this is allowed, I'd start sending Umbrella's,...) :/

Posted by: Sabrewulf238 14th April 2009, 04:24 PM

I never really paid attention before, but now I'm finally realizing how despicable a rule this entire Eurovision banning is.........it's a Dictatorship rule.

Is BJSC a Dictatorship? In that it's members are telling a person, you can't enter this song because we said so. Is that really mature?

I hope one day the entire rule will be dropped as it isn't fair.

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 04:26 PM

It's only ever been in place because it was in the rules at the Nation Song Contest - where ESC songs are about as cheap as you can get, as I reckon you probably know

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 14th April 2009, 04:26 PM

You'll see the reaction when the rule will be (more likely) implemented.

Posted by: Mart!n 14th April 2009, 04:26 PM

This is pretty bland, I wouldn't even consider it BJSC

Posted by: David 14th April 2009, 04:30 PM

I know from real life experience people will like a song when they hear it for the first time, realise it's a Eurovision song and then find all sorts of ridiculous 'faults' with it. I've managed to stamp many people out of that attitude now, but that's with constantly making them listen to Eurovision songs! I just fear people on here who don't like Eurovision songs (in general) or just dismiss them all as "camp Europop" are just going to listen to them with a negative point of view already implemented...


And really Mikey, that is FAR from bland. Typical example of the above reason I just gave...

Posted by: Sabrewulf238 14th April 2009, 04:31 PM

One other thing I've noticed alot of people saying that they don't want to have to listen to about ten different typical eurovision songs.

Isn't that a little bit selfish?

That people are voting with themselves in mind and not for the greater community? Not to help make BJSC a better community?

This is just how it looks to me anyway from alot of the comments so excuse me if I'm completly wrong with this.

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 04:35 PM

Yes, that's a very big point...but even so, it's not really a reason to ban them. I had been considering a secret organisation of sorts so that if a song is Eurovision-related people who know won't say a thing

Posted by: Jonjo 14th April 2009, 04:40 PM

I haven't read anyone say anything like the above...


Oh and just so everyone knows, I won't be against it if it actually wins this poll and ARE allowed. At least you've let the people who are slightly against it have their say. I am just against it as there was nothing wrong with the contests before all this emerged, and I'm just finding it weird how it's just all of a sudden become of an importance

But whatever. C'est La Vie etc... etc...

Posted by: Sabrewulf238 14th April 2009, 04:43 PM

That's very interesting actually......I wonder if that had never been implemented at the start of the contest, would people be so angry about Eurovision songs being entered?

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 14th April 2009, 04:50 PM

Jonjo, one person, pyrynemi (sp? ), stated that he would withdraw if the rule would be introduced. And i just PREDICT some people saying 'if they are able to send cheap ESC NF entries i'll go cheaper HAHA'. But that's only my opinion. I don't want to start a big argue on that point.

And overally, i just think that this thread's discussions wouldn't change anything globally. Aaron will still have his opinion, I will have mine. All about the poll.

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 14th April 2009, 04:51 PM

Eurovision season, if you haven't noticed

Posted by: Tron 14th April 2009, 04:52 PM

I think also it's more to do with the fact that the contest has gravitated away from Eurovision - most of the entrants before were very familiar with Eurovision, whereas a year on the contest has moved strongly away. We just want to introduce some of our favourite songs to an audience that won't have heard it before - after all, the contest is about introducing people to new music...

Posted by: Aaron* 14th April 2009, 04:57 PM

I think the ban was first taken away for XIV but no one decided to take advantage of it. I wasn't pleased that it was removed, but apparently I wasn't vocal enough about it the first time. This is kinda why I made more of a fuss about it when they decided to unban the last three.


Well it's not really, but it's much easier to ban these sorts of entries than 'cheap' songs. No one has worked out a black and white definition of what cheap is, so it's harder to target. Yes, Lady GaGa is cheap if someone sent "Poker Face" but it's not really cheap if someone sent a pre-GaGa track of hers like "No Floods" imo. You can't really make restrictions without causing confusion. Banning NF songs, that would also have a pre-fanbase, is much easier. The people that send 'cheap' songs are always sniped at anyway, you're kinda made to feel bad for sending them.


Thank goodness we have that block, BJSC is quite anti R&B. Keri Hilson may have finished 10th but it only received points from 16 of the 46 voters. I thought it was one of the best R&B songs sent so far and it didn't do quite as well as it should. Things like Brandy and Shontelle did well but they're very watered down and quite Pop sounding. Most proper R&B songs sturggle to get past the semis.

I'm sorry I haven't argued properly today, but I feel like I've had all these arguments before, in the original threads but I'm clearly not convincing anyone. I'm rather pleased to see there are more than 2 or 3 no votes though, there's clearly more of an objection than I thought.

No one seems to want to send them any more anyway. It's a shame the ban is set to be lifted, we could be missing Fervorosia and Kylienips by the next contest if we life the ban. How many people are going to withdraw if the ban stays?

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 14th April 2009, 04:57 PM

Leona's mine beeyatch

Posted by: Harve 14th April 2009, 04:57 PM

I think 'Yes' has got this

Posted by: Sabrewulf238 14th April 2009, 04:58 PM

I agree,

This contest doesn't need to be associated with the eurovision song contest anymore. It can stand on it's on two feet.

and I don't see why a person should not have absolute free choice when picking a song. It's great when someone picks a song we love but we shouldn't take precautions so songs we don't want to listen to won't appear.

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 14th April 2009, 05:04 PM

Well, this probably will not be a popular idea then, but I thought about this at work today:

Ban ALL songs from NFs, but only from the current year, and likewise all songs that have been top 40 UK hits in the last year. This would mean that the contest was fair and that people had to be original in their choice of entries. Then again, it might mean both camps were equally unhappy...

Posted by: Robot 14th April 2009, 05:04 PM

Firstly, that Leona Daly song is bad, but that's got nothing to do with it

And, secondly, I will not be bitter about this or start changing my entries to try and rebel against it, if we do get Eurovision songs allowed. I just personally don't see why we should change the contest at all, there's nothing wrong with it now, infact its perfect now and I just don't see why we need to change. I hope people don't turn against me or anything to that extent because I have had my say on why not. I just gave my opinion. I just watch Eurovision every year, and I like a maximum of 6/7 every year, which isn't great.

Posted by: Sabrewulf238 14th April 2009, 05:06 PM

But if this contest is so perfect, then why do these arguements and disagreements keep popping up?

At the very least we should try and find some middle ground between both opinions

Posted by: Aaron* 14th April 2009, 05:06 PM

I think the likeliness of this happening is fairly great. If we're opening the rules to another spectrum of cheapness in addition to the contest getting 50 participants with only 26 or so places in the final I can only see this applying more pressure on people to find an entry that can make the final. If "Jai Ho" can finish 7th, why should the rest strive to find a song that no one else has heard only to finish 18th in the semi final? :/


I think it briefly moved away from it but now we're back 'in season' it seems to have swayed back to being Eurovision obsessed - maybe you all show it less away from Eurovision time? The fact that Agnes and Margaret are contest greats must say that people still gravitate towards European pop more than any other type of music?!


Unfortunately it has. But 57-43 isn't a very glorious victory anyway, I'd be hesitant now if I was someone planning to send a NF song.

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 14th April 2009, 05:10 PM

Question is, why the hell should it matter? If I was to enter and NF song, but use a music video, and not say it was an NF song, people wouldn't neccessarily know. Isn't it kind of crazy to boycott a song just because you know where it comes from? Say I decided to boycott all RnB - what would be the point?

Posted by: Sabrewulf238 14th April 2009, 05:13 PM

When disagreements like this are happening, change is needed. You can't expect to do nothing and just let it calm down because it won't.

I can see there are alot of people against it............so maybe instead of deciding "yes" or "no" we should be trying to come up with ideas that people of both opinion can be happy?

If some sort of agreement isn't chosen this will pop up next year at eurovision time too and the next year and the next year.

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 14th April 2009, 05:14 PM

So, entering a song to this contest you wish to get to the final in the first place? :/ :/ I thought it's all about introducing people to music you like.

I wouldn't just CARE now if i DNQ'd 583 times in a row counting from this contest.

Posted by: Mart!n 14th April 2009, 05:20 PM

idea... Maybe grouped them all in one semi final and the others in the other semi final, than you get an even balance of what can get in the final, it will please some people, but not many.

Posted by: RabbitFurCoat 14th April 2009, 05:21 PM

It's not bad. It's horrendous. If that's the type of song that will be entered if yes wins then... well, at least voting will be easier!

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 14th April 2009, 05:23 PM

Fine, more generic europop it is then. We are TRYING, you know...

Posted by: Mart!n 14th April 2009, 05:31 PM

Another idea, is let members PM their entries to the host country, than no one knows who is sending what, but don't create a topic of what you are sending.

These are only suggestions and ideas, I'm trying to draw the line somewhere.

Posted by: thisispop 14th April 2009, 05:34 PM

... And in directly you've hit the nail on the head.

The ONLY reason I voted Yes; was because I think it is ridiculous how losing Eurovision NFs songs are not allowed (that maybe a maximum of 7 or 8 players have heard) yet you are perfectly allowed to enter a song from the Top 40 that becomes a Top 5 hit by the time the final voting is over. The same would apply with a song that was a major hit single in the last 12/24 months. (For crying out loud I changed entering Ladyhawke - My Delirium in one contest at the last minute because it surprisingly became a Top 40 hit after her previous 3 singles failed to go close to the top 40; now looking back I wonder why I bothered).

With more and more contestants taking part I've got rather depressed by how well the likes of Love Story & J'ai Ho have done in the last 2 contests. As I feel the spirit of this contest = Finding songs that few people know for others to appreciate (ie. Songs not being shoved down our throats by Radio 1 / Music video channels), has been lost.

Therefore I bet if a rule change was implemented to ban these type of songs from being allowed to be entered then I suspect about half of us who voted Yes for this rule change would change our votes to No. If obvious cheap songs were banned from the contest.

Posted by: Robot 14th April 2009, 05:41 PM

That is changing the contest a hell of a lot, but I actually love that idea!! That is actually great...but I doubt others would go with that

Posted by: Sabrewulf238 14th April 2009, 05:45 PM

I love this idea! We need to do it soon!

It would be so tense waiting to find out which country was the one that sent the winner!

Posted by: Mart!n 14th April 2009, 06:01 PM

Obviously the contestants will have to remain stumm in the semis during the revealing, not going "ooh thanks for voting for my song"

Posted by: Cal 14th April 2009, 06:08 PM

But it is. Arguments I've seen are "NF songs are cheap", but then you can be guaranteed that person will be the first to defend their entry if it's regarded as "cheap".

It's either lift the ban of NF "cheap" songs or ban all "cheap" songs. The only reason why we don't have a definition of "cheap" is because we haven't bothered to get a common one that suits everybody. I think we really need to have a number of "cheap" definitions and put them to vote.

There's no point cherry picking what we want and not accepting the things we don't want.

Posted by: thisispop 14th April 2009, 06:21 PM

Now this is a genius idea.

If I was hosting then I would love to use this format. Although the only way this could properly work would be if no one got a bye/Pre-qualified to the Final.

Posted by: RabbitFurCoat 14th April 2009, 06:26 PM

I've done song contests similar to this on three other sites before (Moopy, CHC and Haven) and they've all been anonymous. I have to say I do prefer it not knowing who's sent what (although you can always guess some from knowing the person) but I think BJSC is too evolved for that to ever happen here. It's a huge thing and part of the fun is the buildup to the contest.

I was going to suggest 'Anonymous' as a spin-off theme for when the next one is due.

Posted by: OrgasmicLust 14th April 2009, 06:43 PM

I honestly do not like the sound of anoymous AT ALL.

And I don't get why people are so uppity about cheap songs. If people want to send a cheap song like Jai Ho or Love Story. It's up to them really. If you don't like the song or think its' too cheap then don't vote for it. The reason why they do well is because people prefer it to whatever other song.

Posted by: gooddelta 14th April 2009, 07:21 PM

great idea for a spin off (yes it works well on CHC which I've partaken in along with Mark) but I agree that this contest is far too involved in the build up to properly change it...plus it would be really obvious to work out who was sending what by looking in people's personal charts etc...

Posted by: LiamOrrico 15th April 2009, 02:18 AM

When is the reservation thread? This poll had been going on for too long!

Posted by: Jerick 15th April 2009, 02:22 AM

It should been a deadline and not between thursday and sunday..

Posted by: LiamOrrico 15th April 2009, 02:25 AM

I agree. If the poll was showing any signs of turning around, we would've already saw them!

Posted by: Jerick 15th April 2009, 02:36 AM

Yeah, and at the most here have only been 51 entring in the contest, so if the 6 missing vote NO, YES will still win

Posted by: LiamOrrico 15th April 2009, 02:37 AM

Exactly!

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 15th April 2009, 03:14 AM

Moopy I've registered there a few weeks ago.

I DO like that idea Martin suggested.

Posted by: The Fear 15th April 2009, 07:04 AM

There are more things to consider than your impatience.

were still discussing things behind the scenes.

Posted by: RabbitFurCoat 15th April 2009, 10:45 AM

I haven't even been there for about 3 years now!

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 15th April 2009, 10:48 AM

but i've not been visiting it lately too

Posted by: The Fear 15th April 2009, 10:54 AM

I reckon the Yes's have it.

25 of 49 [one null voter, no Lorikeet] Gives us a majority vote for Yes.

I'll wait and see what Tom and Trash say before we close this.

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 15th April 2009, 11:04 AM

...and the Booty Luv race begins.

Posted by: OrgasmicLust 15th April 2009, 11:08 AM

I voted yes, btw.

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 15th April 2009, 11:13 AM

Now I need to work out how many acts I'm reserving if I take Six4One...

Posted by: The Fear 15th April 2009, 11:17 AM

i have 6 acts in my NF's.

But i know which 3 to reserve

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 15th April 2009, 11:22 AM

I know ONE artist i will be reserving

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 15th April 2009, 11:58 AM

Thought you could reserve upto six?

Posted by: The Fear 15th April 2009, 11:59 AM

depends on the host.

some do 3, some do 5

Posted by: LiamOrrico 15th April 2009, 01:29 PM

Phil, what are we waiting for now? The poll can't possibly change if that's what your waiting for!

Posted by: Maxïmo Pavel 15th April 2009, 01:35 PM

There're 3 moderators of this forum, not 1. Rules changes don't take 11 minutes to be discussed and implemented.

Posted by: gooddelta 15th April 2009, 02:19 PM

unless they are run by gooddelta[/awfulmod]

wait for Tom and Tron to come on before concluding this vote...the most more votes we could get I should think it s 5 or 6, and even if they were all no's, the yes's would still have it

Posted by: Aaron* 15th April 2009, 07:10 PM

You all suck. D:

Oh well, makes voting easier I guess.

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 15th April 2009, 08:03 PM

Heh. But seriously, do you mean to say that you will deliberately not vote for something, even if you love it, because it was entered in a Eurovision NF?

Posted by: gooddelta 15th April 2009, 08:09 PM

just a thought, if the other 17 'no's' all also plan to boycott any NF songs sent (even if they like them) then it will be a completely irrelevant excercise sending one in the first place

so a question to all of the other people who voted no ---> even though you dislike the idea of these songs being sent, if you do actually turn out to like one that gets sent, will you still give it a chance or not?

I'm definitely 100% not sending one this month, it's more so a pondering for the future just in case I might want to send one (particularly this time next year for example)

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 15th April 2009, 08:19 PM

I am thinking about sending one myself. But probably not one from this season.

Posted by: Mart!n 15th April 2009, 08:24 PM

I bet after all this majority of the members won't bother sending NF's, and gone through this all for nothing...

Posted by: gooddelta 15th April 2009, 08:33 PM

it's nice to have the option available though I know I was strongly considering sending one last month...

Posted by: Robot 15th April 2009, 08:34 PM

Just for the record, I voted no, but I won't boycott a song if I love it.

Posted by: Mart!n 15th April 2009, 08:55 PM

Might have to do a poll check some one could have set up a few alias accounts to prop up the yes vote

Posted by: NexxTom Kay 15th April 2009, 08:59 PM

Hardly

Anyway, what I still don't get is, if a country sends a music video, or still picture video how would you know it was an Nf song?

Posted by: RabbitFurCoat 15th April 2009, 09:04 PM

Of course I'll give it a chance but given that in a typical contest if I think 3 songs are worth another listen then the chances are that it will make voting easier for me. Especially if the songs posted earlier in this thread are prime examples of the songs which will be sent.

Posted by: Cal 15th April 2009, 09:14 PM

You PM everybody who posts in the Eurovision forum to keep their mouths shut so they don't say anything.

[/totally not my plan]

No seriously, it's not.

Posted by: tombliboo 15th April 2009, 09:45 PM

**VOTE CLOSED**

Result:

25 - Yes (allow NF songs)
18 - No (disallow NF songs)

It's fair to say that despite this being a very close vote, the 'Yes' vote has it and so we shall be allowing Eurovision National Final songs to be enterred into BJSC XVI.

On behalf of all of us mods, thank you all for keeping this a clean and productive discussion, it has made it clear that votes can be implemented easily to give everyone a say on how contest is run and hopefully keep everyone happy. We are always open to suggestions as to how the contest can be improved so please keep your ideas coming.

The reservation thread may be opened as and when the host feels it is appropriate.