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Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 24th February 2018, 05:00 PM

Can we PLEASE talk aboot this album??

It has some rnb elements like the first album, such as Full Stop and Generate The Flow, which sound like natural progress from the first album, and could even be on VB. There are also rnb tracks This Groove/ The Hustler, which are two absolutely stellar tracks. These rnb elements are from the other proposed album, the rnb one with Damen Dash.


However, the dance tracks are AMAZING. Of course, the single mix of the first track is MUCH better, just like I Turn To You.

This album is much better than the first one. Its genre is rnb/ dance, with only one pseudo-ballad.

I think this album is just more proof of the importance of self-belief. She lost belief in her music, and so, when the record label closed down, she didn't release the album or try to find more backing/ self-fund it. I think this album would have done wonders for her, in terms of Spice fans. We all know the press was brainwashing people, with the media joining in. Jonathan Ross was extremely rude to her.

I'm not even sure what singles I would go for. The songs are all great. I actually think that maaaybe I'd go for:

1. LYHG/ This Groove
2. Open Your Eyes (with single production like LYHG)
3. The Hustler
4. Should Have Known Better if there was a fourth


The Hustler is such a different sound for the Spice Girls.

In fact, I don't think they even needed the debate between Damen Dash/ the better pop song. They could have easily done a dual album release: pushed her in the US, where she was/ is far more popular with the rnb album, Come Together, and in Europe/ Australia/ Japan with the pop album.

If she released in the US, the single order would have to be:

1. That Simple or Come Together (With Damen Dash feature)
2. This Groove (Jay Z feature??)
3. The Hustler (another feature)
4. Freedom (another feature)

What do you think of this album? Whilst nothing can touch Northern Star/ most of Mel C's albums, I'd actually put this album a solid 2nd after Northern Star 25 Minutes/ Me Without You are probably my least favourites on it. They sound like the filler.

I think the pop album was definitely the right choice. I don't rate the full-rnb one. This one is such a good progression from the mid-tempo first album/ dance songs.

Here is the playlist of the rnb album, Come Together:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzST0neMmqQ&list=PLFh0qiFaijIYSibaT9p1y6SpUr_ecuCsV

I still like it, but the pop album was much better for me.

At least this way we basically have THREE albums by VB. I'm considering burning two CDs (blast from the past right??) with those two 'demo' albums, printing cover art, then having three VB albums physically, seeing as you can't get them anywhere/ and she has moved to fashion. She should have believed in herself.

I'd have put these on the album too:

Posted by: Jay ☆ 24th February 2018, 09:40 PM

The 2007 demo tracks being referred to as a "second album" is a misnomer, because they're just demos. A group of fans bought the demo disc in 2006 or 2007. They picked 12 of the tracks, edited them, gave some of them different titles, and then compiled them together as an "album", calling it 'Open Your Eyes' - leaking it in 2007.

Then in 2016 another set of demos leaked from a different CD-R, with the tracks on that being more hip-hop/urban leaning.

As a matter of interest, here are the track lists for the two CD-Rs:



1 Open Your Eyes
2 Hustler
3 Flow
4 I'd Give It All Away
5 Be With You
6 Can't Get Enough - 07
7 Can't Get Enough - DJ
8 Can't Get Enough - Vox Up
9 Me Without You - Soulpower
10 25 Minutes
11 Me Without You - Rob Davis
12 Let Your Head Go
13 Obsession
14 Time
15 Shake It
16 Full Stop
17 Back To You
18 Every Little Thing
19 I Should Have Known Better
20 Bitter Sweet

^ As far as I can remember, 'Obsession' and 'Time' feature session singer vocals, not Victoria's.



1 DAT Simple
2 Baby Boy (Hard Version)
3 Baby Boy (Soft Version)
4 Let Your Head Go
5 He's My Lover
6 That Dude
7 Valentine
8 Resentment (Elvis Song)
9 I'll Take You There
10 Freedom
11 Me and You This Time
12 Come Together
13 Spell on Me
14 Jealous Ones
15 So Cold

I assume all of the tracks from the first list (bar Let Your Head Go) were scrapped within the first half of 2003, and were no longer being considered for her second album. The second list represents her change of direction during the recording process, after meeting Damon Dash. Four of the above songs were released as audio tracks on her "The Real Beckhams" DVD (That Dude, Valentine, Resentment and Me and You This Time), so maybe these were not destined to be included on an album. It seems Victoria/the label still weren't fully satisfied that they had recorded enough songs they were happy to put on an album, because she returned to the studio in 2004.

My Love Is For Real was recorded in 2004, and was rumoured for a summer 2004 release. Sadly it must have been around this time that she lost interest in continuing to pursue her solo career, probably not helped by the fact that the Telstar label went bankrupt. (I do wonder whether 'My Love Is For Real' would have been a hit. In the low selling summer months, I reckon it would have been another easy Top 10 hit for her.)

Anyway, there was never a situation of her having different finalised albums featuring different sounds, for her to choose between. Unfortunately she never progressed further than the demos stage!

Victoria supposedly started working on material towards the end of 2002, and then abandoned the project in mid-2004. So she certainly dedicated a lot of her time towards trying to make a second album happen, and it's definitely a shame that it didn't materialise. The fans are very lucky that so many tracks from these sessions ultimately leaked.

Posted by: Lukuzz 24th February 2018, 10:32 PM

I need to get my hands on all of these songs again. I remember having and loving them years back but don’t have them currently. Really wish she had at least released one more album.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 24th February 2018, 10:37 PM

So what do you think the second album would have been like, Jay??

My Love Is For Real would have been a good second single. It sounds like a summer/ summer radio hit.

Posted by: Blond 2.0 24th February 2018, 10:50 PM

I still like most of these tracks

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 24th February 2018, 10:52 PM

Shame the fans can put together a better album than the producers could!!

Also, glad Open Your Eyes wasn't the actual title

Posted by: tommie 25th February 2018, 05:58 AM

DAT Simple was a jam x

Posted by: Eduardo 25th February 2018, 01:31 PM

I think "Open Your Eyes" is one of the most "official" unofficial things I've seen.

And I had no idea that the first set of leaked tracks were fan-edits of the original ones

Posted by: Spiceboy 25th February 2018, 04:39 PM

I have to say the guys that worked on OYE did an amazing job I rate it as one of my top solo Spice albums!

1. Northern Star
2. Free Me
3. Schizophonic
4. Open Your Eyes
5. The Sea / LA State Of Mind (these swap places depending on my mood at the time)

Posted by: Bitch 25th February 2018, 04:47 PM

Omg not stans buying the demo's lmaooooo

Posted by: tommie 25th February 2018, 05:11 PM

at least they didn't get a hold of the sensual ballad she did with the cheeky girls xoxo

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 25th February 2018, 06:55 PM

Um is that an actual thing??

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 1st March 2018, 05:03 PM

Was anyone else here for the DenDen-era rumours of Victoria Beckham's next single? I think it was before LYHG and DDTG. It was #MadonnaGate

There was a grainy clip going around the Victoria Beckham pages.

'Bad girl, drunk by 6, kissin someone else's liiips, had too many cigarettes today, not happy when you act this way.' Then the next bit was, 'I'm not happy, not happy, not happpeeeyyyy'

And I'd listen over and over and ask others if they thought it was VB

Our answer was always ... could be, kinda sounds like her.

The grainy quality added to it, as VB/ Madonna's vocals are sometimes similar.

Can't believe I just didn't google the lyrics!

Madonna - Bad Girl

Posted by: vibe 1st March 2018, 08:57 PM

Hmmm they sound nothing alike

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 1st March 2018, 11:42 PM

Imagine it on a purposefully grainy, low q, before broadband quicktime compressed clip

Then the vocals were very similar.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 1st March 2018, 11:49 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=672cZ7_R5IM

Listen to the chorus - it was just that part on a grainy clip

The clip was 1:08 - 1:55ish, then a repeat of the chorus.

Posted by: tommie 2nd March 2018, 08:52 PM

She was going to add her vocals to this before she bankrupted Telstar:

Posted by: Mr.X 3rd March 2018, 12:21 AM

That's quite amazing and insane! I mean, it is pish but I could totally see it happening back then.

If this is true, my hunch is that she wasnt keen on doing it and Telstar wanted her to do it, so she spent shit loads on her album and backrupted the company on purpose to get away from recording this pish

VB (kind of) knows her shit

Posted by: tommie 3rd March 2018, 03:52 AM

I'm genuinely surprised that no one actually called me out on my blatant lies so far.

WTF Jay

Posted by: Jay ☆ 3rd March 2018, 04:08 AM

You’d totally be nearing a third warning on DenDen by this stage, hen!

Posted by: tommie 3rd March 2018, 04:15 AM

I was actually half-way about to write up a proposed rap that Victoria was going to add, but I had to stop myself.

Posted by: Spiceboy 3rd March 2018, 12:27 PM

Posted by: tommie 3rd March 2018, 07:06 PM

And you know it would be absolutely fabulous!

Posted by: tommie 3rd March 2018, 07:08 PM

Ei me Sticky Vicky
I licky licky
Me so hawt
Don't try to tell me what you gott!!!1

Posted by: Piers 25th March 2018, 06:18 PM

I actually really like the Open Your Eyes album with one exception...Let Your Head Go. I know. Unpopular opinion. It's kinda fun in a guilty pleasure sort of way...but I find the lyrics to be clunky and awkward. But. The rest of the album? I think she cracked the code on what a Victoria Beckham album should be. Her first album is okay...but I think it's a bit too obsessed with the "I'm just a normal girl...honest!...SEE!" stuff. The Open Your Eyes album fully embraces the Posh Spice ice queen image. Her team got it right.

I'm a lot more conflicted about the Damon Dash album. I like This Groove...and even though it was intended to be dumped, I find myself humming So Cold a lot. I think a lot of the rest of the album is all wrong for her, though...and could've been really embarrassing had it been given an official release. That Dude and Take You There emphasize her voice at its least flattering. I'm glad to see some people like Dat Simple...because I think it's a total trainwreck.

All that said...I'm not sure how many big hits she would've gotten out of either album. I think the likes of Should've Known Better and Generate the Flow could have been further top 5 or top 10 contenders...but to me, the only unreleased song of hers that could've landed a #1 was My Love is For Real.

Posted by: -Jay- 31st January 2022, 03:58 AM

Bumping this thread because this era was touched upon in Geri's general discussion: http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=6580&view=findpost&p=7046583


From what I remember, the admins on DenDen managed to win a CD-R of the unreleased Victoria Beckham demos on eBay (or perhaps they offered the seller a figure they couldn't refuse). This is the CD-R: http://ultimatespice.online.fr/victoriabeckham/pics/2ndalbumproject/telstar.jpg - it didn't have a title. Almost all of those songs have Victoria's vocals on them, apart from Me Without You - Soulpower and Obsession.

I think this happened in 2006, so I was 18 then. I was a mod at the time, but I definitely wasn't deeply involved in the process of went on - I think a lot of it was discussed privately in the admin only forum.

I do recall the legality of leaking this music being discussed, the admins didn't want it to be pinpointed to DenDen or anybody specific.

I'm not sure why this was decided, but one of the admins edited a selection of the songs (it's been so long since I listened to the edited versions, but I think some of them were shortened, maybe some songs had their structures changed slightly? I don't know if they were remixed though. Maybe someone here is more familiar with the differences between the edited versions and what was on the CD-R). Anyway, after the editing was finished, I'm pretty sure that the admins decided to call this edited version 'Open Your Eyes'. Then it was leaked.

The fact the music was put out in the public domain with that as its title, is certainly why that title stuck. With DenDen's team not publicly admitting involvement, I think initially the fans - and then the general public who read about it in news articles - just took it for granted that this was supposedly an unreleased album in its final form, with that as its title... so it stuck. I'm going to assume that some fans were more analytical about it, given that this "album" didn't have Let Your Head Go in its single version, This Groove, or the songs from The Real Beckhams DVD.

In 2016, another CD-R leaked, with a lot of Damon Dash songs on it. Interestingly this CD-R had more information, with a specific date on it: 3rd September 2003. For some reason this also ended up being regarded as a separate "scrapped album". I'm pretty sure the previous CD-R was from a few months earlier.

The recording process of this era is quite fascinating to me, in regards to how she was initially going in a pop/dance direction, before she pivoted to R&B and Hip-Hop. Which as we know resulted in the Double A Side single which provided a taster of both sounds.

2004 is an interesting but kind of vague year in this story too. 'My Love Is for Real' was recorded in this year, and it was supposed to be a single, before everything went off the rails. A really bad quality file of a remix of the song (Armand Van Helden Mix) leaked in the mid 2000s, I think? A version which really didn't give much of an indication of what the song was like. I can't remember when the Lenny B remix leaked, and then eventually the actual single version leaked. I'm not at all sure how any of these mixes were discovered and leaked. Like I said in the Geri topic, I assume DenDen forum would have had the answers to how it happened.

Anyway, what could have been! Based on these leaks, there was great potential for a strong second album. Who knows which songs would have made the cut, and what it really would have been called. I assume that behind the scenes, they never got that far to make those decisions, before the label folded? It's quite lucky that all those songs leaked. I believe they only survived being binned (imagine!) because somebody thought to hold onto them, before making the decision to sell them.

If anyone remembers anything more specific that I've forgotten, let us know!

Posted by: Babyboy 31st January 2022, 08:15 AM

I remember My Love Is For Real was announced as a second single by her during a Marie Claire interview

Posted by: spiceboy 31st January 2022, 01:56 PM

I also remember my love is for real being announced as the second single, always assumed the version I had was the only one and that was the single one. Shame it didn’t get a release in that form I think it could have been a hit for her, obviously Telstar went bust though 🤷‍♂️.

Whoever put Open your eyes together (whether they edited it, remixed or whatever) did a great job it’s actually a fab album. I could have seen Victoria having an era similar to Emma’s Free Me era had she released that and promoted it well. However I think we would have got something with more RnB on it as the Damon Dash stuff which would have bombed, she was never and will never be RnB “cool” that she was trying to be.

Posted by: Sideout 31st January 2022, 10:41 PM

All of the Biff songs from these sessions are A+

Hustler
Flow
Be With You
I Should've Known Better
Bittersweet
Give It All Away

All of these tracks are much better than Headlines and Voodoo. It's a shame none of these songs were repurposed into Spice Girls songs for the greatest hits.

Posted by: Equinox8 3rd February 2022, 09:07 PM

The Lenny B Remix of that song is what got my attention, to be honest. Shame the full length club mix hasn't surfaced; it's in the hands of a few "special people" though.

Posted by: Piers 6th February 2022, 02:22 AM

A few thoughts about the scrapped material.

So, we know My Love Is For Real is from a third set of recordings for Victoria's album. A third change of direction? I've heard fans claim over the years that Shake It was also from the third sessions...but beats me if we know that for sure. Do we know if the intent was to start completely fresh with recordings a third time?

I'm not sure I follow why she was trying to entirely dump all her pop material in 2003 in favor of the Damon Dash stuff. The pop recordings are so obviously stronger than, say, It's That Simple, That Dude, and Valentine. Was it out of the question to just combine the best of all the sessions? To me, the thing to do by 2004 would be to take the best pop tracks (especially the five Biff songs), pair them with This Groove, Resentment, and So Cold from the Damon Dash material, and lastly add My Love Is For Real and Shake It. It would have made a rather strong solo Spice album, I think. Better than the VB album, for sure.

Last thought. I admittedly don't know enough about releasing music to gather when payment for a song sample takes place...but I've wondered if the samples Damon Dash used contributed the most to what bankrupted Telstar. A lot of Victoria's recordings with Dash rely heavily on famous song samples...the most prominent cases being The Beatles' Come Together and George Michael's Freedom. There's no way those rights came cheap...especially for what was supposed to be a smaller record label. Granted, the fact Victoria recorded A LOT of material with several high profile collaborators could have played the bigger role in Telstar's demise.

Posted by: Piers 6th February 2022, 02:41 AM

I know I just said 'last thought'. But here's another last thought.

Though it defies logic from a music quality standpoint, I do get her thinking on going solely with the Damon Dash material if her sole intent was to break the US.

And I might get some debate on this, but my interpretation is that with a decent song, Victoria would have the best chance of the five girls to make an impact on the US charts...AND a better chance at chart success than even a Spice Girls comeback would have had by the early 2000s. The Spices were perceived as yesterday's news by that point, but there was a very real fascination with the Beckhams. Victoria definitely wasn't viewed as an annoyance in the way the British tabloids were playing her. She and David were seen as a beautiful power couple...and I do think around 2001-2007, she could have struck and capitalized on it.

Could any of the Damon Dash material have taken her there? My thought is This Groove was too subtle to launch her in a new market. Resentment might have played out okay as a follow-up single to something. Going outside the Dash stuff, I think My Love Is For Real might have stood a chance at getting a respectable spot on a chart.

Posted by: tommie 6th February 2022, 06:10 AM

I don't think Victoria stood a chance to break the US market - first of all it's a huge market that requires a lot of the ground work and I don't see Victoria (just like the other girls) sticking to it since it would mean travel all over to small and obscure stations. Second of all, when the US does tend to pick up a foreign artist it tends to be because it's something different than the US artists provide; when UK artists tend to try to hard to fit into the market they, well, flop (see: Spice Girls, Kylie et al). So I don't think Damon Dash would've helped her break the market, if anything it might've worked against her since why would they play Victoria Beckham when they could play Beyoncé?

Also, I think samples are cleared and paid if they end up using them. Most of the Damon Dash tracks ended up on the floor so they probably didn't have to bother.

Posted by: Piers 6th February 2022, 03:43 PM

I should reword what I said because...no, I don't think the Damon Dash stuff would have charted well either...though there may have been an interest in what Resentment was about. My thought was more...could My Love Is For Real have gotten her a bit of traction?

I just base that on how I remember people reacting to her during that time. A lot of people in the US were talking about the Beckhams...and it was the sort of people who wouldn't know the real names of the other four Spices...and wouldn't even recognize the other four walking down the street. For them...the Beckhams were relationship goals. Victoria's face was all over Times Square. The late night shows talked about them. The fascination was there...even without the Beckhams trying especially hard (there was something of a push for exposure in 2007).

Would that have translated into music sales? Maybe not. But I'm thinking if she'd released My Love Is For Real...accompanied with a sexy video featuring David (think the 2007 W magazine shoot in video form)...maybe? She did have Simon Fuller on her side at the time...