The Official Labour Foot-Shoot Thread, Mk II

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The Official Labour Foot-Shoot Thread, Mk II

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Suedehead2 View member profile	16th November 2023, 10:33 PM Post #1781
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,683 User: 3,272	QUOTE(Rooney @ Nov 16 2023, 08:17 PM) It's politics. The story here is the SNP making an amendment that would embarrass Labour. From a political perspective, Labour have adopted the right stance based on their current position imo. Personally, if you believe you are a government in waiting, I think disagreeing with the stance the EU and US hold is the wrong move & there's nothing to be gained politically from this. From an ehtical and moral perspective? Yes, I get that and it is not the right one. There's no perfect position, but Labour have adopted the right one here. Jess Phillps has only resigned because she's been backed in to a corner by the SNP. Yes, it's definitely politics. Starter, understandably, doesn't want to open up a rift with the USA, particularly when he is currently in a position where he has precisely zero influence over what happens in Gaza. At the start of the week, Ed Davey finally spoke out in favour of a ceasefire. I suspect that most Lib Dem members will support that position, but Davey has the luxury of being `able to ay it knowing that, barring a substantial decline in Labour's lead, he won't be in government after the election. It may even persuade some Labour-leaning voters in the so-called blue wall to vote Lib Dem, thereby consigning a few more Tory MPs to oblivion.


Steve201 View member profile	16th November 2023, 11:20 PM Post #1782
Shakin Stevens Joined: 29 December 2007 Posts: 46,168 User: 5,138	It’s always like this when labours close to power. The Lib Dem’s move into the leftward space they leave to get into power - oh god British politics never changes even after a decade of chaos!


Smint View member profile	16th December 2023, 09:30 PM Post #1783
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 21 February 2021 Posts: 3,578 User: 124,514	Oh for once I wish Starmer would give us at least one thing to look forward to: Still dancing to the destructive billionaires tune https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/dec/...hacking-victory This post has been edited by Smint: 16th December 2023, 09:31 PM


Iz 🌟 View member profile	16th December 2023, 10:17 PM Post #1784
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,426 User: 12,929	With a lead in the polls despite the rabid papers still (mostly) doing everything they can to bring the Tory line of making performative cruelty of some description the election issue to fight on too. Every metric of opinion I can see suggests that even if the papers turned against him now he'd still be the man to beat next year. You could say he and his inner circle are perhaps worried about a 1992, but it's not 1992 any more (interesting that they mention 1992 in the article, but not 2017/2019, because then, you see, the wrong sort of Labour were being beaten bloody by the press). Hence, this isn't a 'we are hiding our cards until we're elected' move, it's a 'we have reached a compliance agreement with the true powers' move.


Smint View member profile	18th December 2023, 12:04 AM Post #1785
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 21 February 2021 Posts: 3,578 User: 124,514	Agreed all above. Interesting news coming out that the ex lead singer of indie band Gomez (who had several minor hits including 'Whippin Piccadilly'), Tom Gray, is standing in Caroline Lucas' seat, Brighton Pavilion for Labour. He beat the much more famous Eddie Izzard in the candidate selection. Could he be the first top 40 star to become an MP? This post has been edited by Smint: 18th December 2023, 12:10 AM


Suedehead2 View member profile	18th December 2023, 10:21 AM Post #1786
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,683 User: 3,272	QUOTE(Smint @ Dec 18 2023, 12:04 AM) Agreed all above. Interesting news coming out that the ex lead singer of indie band Gomez (who had several minor hits including 'Whippin Piccadilly'), Tom Gray, is standing in Caroline Lucas' seat, Brighton Pavilion for Labour. He beat the much more famous Eddie Izzard in the candidate selection. Could he be the first top 40 star to become an MP? No. Pete Wishart (Runrig and Big Country) has been an SNP MP since 2001.


Iz 🌟 View member profile	8th February 2024, 06:29 PM Post #1787
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,426 User: 12,929	love that the day after the PM managed to get in hot water in part because of listing off the very valid point that the Labour leader is making a habit of reneging on his policies, the Labour leader officially trashes one of his most noticeable and necessary policies - we all knew he was going to but losing the £28bn climate pledge stings. So actually I mean I don't love that at all. Adherence to "fiscal responsibility" is killing the Labour campaign in its cradle and a lot more than £28bn needs to be spent on green policies and investment. They can go on about irresponsible spending and being shackled to commitments all they want but it'll mean a greater price to pay further down the line if they don't commit more to it now and it really does make them look directionless.


Long Dong Silver View member profile	8th February 2024, 06:30 PM Post #1788
Buffy/Charmed Joined: 18 April 2013 Posts: 44,128 User: 18,639	It's little mroe than a dictatorship, as the elite decide who we can have. We can have evil Tories, or Tories dressed up as Labourites.


Iz 🌟 View member profile	8th February 2024, 06:33 PM Post #1789
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,426 User: 12,929	It's not even just me talking, we have a senior figure under Blair calling it a stupid decision: https://www.politics.co.uk/news/2024/02/08/...ir-era-adviser/ QUOTE The move will be the subject of controversy after John McTernan, who served as Blair’s political secretary, called the planned retreat “very disappointing” in response to reports yesterday. Asked to comment on the reports, which were widespread yesterday, McTernan told the BBC’s Newsnight programme: “It is probably the most stupid decision the Labour Party has made.” “This is a decision that we have to make now to decarbonise our economy and it is one which stands for a purpose, a great purpose, a grand purpose. Great parties have great causes”. He added: “If you don’t have a great cause, you want to change from this Government, sure, but change to what? What is the change Labour now offers? It is very disappointing.” In recent days, the Labour leader had insisted he was committed to meeting the £28 billion pledge, which was first made in 2021. But a public divide between him and the shadow chancellor, Rachel Reeves, had emerged — with Reeves repeatedly refusing to commit to the £28 billion investment target. It's definitely a Reeves and inner party strategists move and it's dumb as rocks, what the country needs and what the country has been desperately missing is long-term thinking.


Rooney View member profile	8th February 2024, 08:12 PM Post #1790
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,605 User: 88	QUOTE(Iz 🧊 @ Feb 8 2024, 06:33 PM) It's not even just me talking, we have a senior figure under Blair calling it a stupid decision: https://www.politics.co.uk/news/2024/02/08/...ir-era-adviser/ It's definitely a Reeves and inner party strategists move and it's dumb as rocks, what the country needs and what the country has been desperately missing is long-term thinking. I am not privvy to all the information Labour have seen - personally I feel this a dumb move too. I think there is an opportunity to be optimistic without being reckless, but seemingly either the public finances are not very healthy at all and we would need tax rises (which I don't think are a bad thing). I think at this point Labour will win the General Election regardless of any handouts the Tories try and deliver, so not really sure what Labour are doing. I do agree this comes from Reeves. I do think an important thing to realise though is this Policy was announced before Truss crashed the economy I think? I can understand the scale back as to not spook the Markets again. But I still think it's a bad look..


Steve201 View member profile	8th February 2024, 10:52 PM Post #1791
Shakin Stevens Joined: 29 December 2007 Posts: 46,168 User: 5,138	QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 18 2023, 10:21 AM) No. Pete Wishart (Runrig and Big Country) has been an SNP MP since 2001. The lead singer of Runrig was also a Labour candidate!


Steve201 View member profile	21st February 2024, 10:18 PM Post #1792
Shakin Stevens Joined: 29 December 2007 Posts: 46,168 User: 5,138	Disgraceful behaviour by the speaker of the commons and Starmer today!


Chez Wombat View member profile	21st February 2024, 10:19 PM Post #1793
The owls are not what they seem Pronouns: He/him Joined: 11 July 2009 Posts: 37,144 User: 9,232	Not sure what thread to put this in, but mad scenes in the Commons today after a breaking of tradition by speaker Lindsay Hoyle allowing both Labour and Conservative amendments to the SNP-led ceasefire in Gaza to a 'humanitarian ceasefire' or 'humanitarian pause' to be voted on, saving Labour a rebellion as it's their own motion given equal priority and completely disregarding the SNP. Mass walkouts from Conservative and SNP MPs resulted in the Labour amendment passed unopposed. Doesn't look good on Hoyle at all however you look at it, essentially disregarding the SNP's own motion and hard to believe it wasn't due to pressure from Labour behind the scenes which is just not how it should be. The whole thing is a bit sad though, really MPs should be united about a ceasefire to stop people dying senselessly and yet it results in all this playing politics, storm in a teacup in the wider scale of things. (edit: beaten to it x)


Rooney View member profile	21st February 2024, 10:38 PM Post #1794
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,605 User: 88	QUOTE(Chez Wombat @ Feb 21 2024, 10:19 PM) Not sure what thread to put this in, but mad scenes in the Commons today after a breaking of tradition by speaker Lindsay Hoyle allowing both Labour and Conservative amendments to the SNP-led ceasefire in Gaza to a 'humanitarian ceasefire' or 'humanitarian pause' to be voted on, saving Labour a rebellion as it's their own motion given equal priority and completely disregarding the SNP. Mass walkouts from Conservative and SNP MPs resulted in the Labour amendment passed unopposed. Doesn't look good on Hoyle at all however you look at it, essentially disregarding the SNP's own motion and hard to believe it wasn't due to pressure from Labour behind the scenes which is just not how it should be. The whole thing is a bit sad though, really MPs should be united about a ceasefire to stop people dying senselessly and yet it results in all this playing politics, storm in a teacup in the wider scale of things. (edit: beaten to it x) The whole thing was politicised though, The SNP knew what they were trying to achieve (make Labour look bad), The Tories knew what they were doing (cause tensions in Labour) and Labour knew what how they might spin this too. I don't think anybody looks good in this, a horrible look for UK politics. I think most of Parliment want some form of ceasefire, the problem is each party wants their version of a ceasefire.


Long Dong Silver View member profile	21st February 2024, 10:39 PM Post #1795
Buffy/Charmed Joined: 18 April 2013 Posts: 44,128 User: 18,639	They're playing politics. They can call for a ceasefirw all they want ans it will make no difference. Israel will ognore the UK, as it has on multiple occasions.


Steve201 View member profile	21st February 2024, 11:54 PM Post #1796
Shakin Stevens Joined: 29 December 2007 Posts: 46,168 User: 5,138	It will def have some sort of effect with a growing number of Eu nations breaking with the EU position on the war and the UK being the partner of the US it can’t not have some effect.


Steve201 View member profile	21st February 2024, 11:56 PM Post #1797
Shakin Stevens Joined: 29 December 2007 Posts: 46,168 User: 5,138	QUOTE(Rooney @ Feb 21 2024, 10:38 PM) The whole thing was politicised though, The SNP knew what they were trying to achieve (make Labour look bad), The Tories knew what they were doing (cause tensions in Labour) and Labour knew what how they might spin this too. I don't think anybody looks good in this, a horrible look for UK politics. I think most of Parliment want some form of ceasefire, the problem is each party wants their version of a ceasefire. War is politics though Rooney! The SNP should do the right thing and just leave Westminster altogether!


Suedehead2 View member profile	22nd February 2024, 12:06 AM Post #1798
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,683 User: 3,272	The SNP put forward a motion for debate. Both Labour and the Tories put forward amendments which basically deleted the SNP motion and replaced it with their own. That is normal procedure when discussing motions. It means that there will be no vote on the original motion if an amendment is passed. That's normal. The SNP motion was designed to expose divisions within Labour. That's why Labour proposed their amendment, an amendment their MPs would happily vote for. The Tories then proposed their own amendment, again designed to expose Labour divisions. If that had been debated, it would have been carried and, again, the original SNP motion would not have been the subject of a vote. The most ridiculous thing about all of this is that it makes no difference whatsoever. The government is not obliged to act on the outcome. Hamas and the Israeli government will take no notice of it. It's all been a waste of time.


Rooney View member profile	22nd February 2024, 12:33 AM Post #1799
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,605 User: 88	QUOTE(Steve201 @ Feb 21 2024, 11:56 PM) War is politics though Rooney! The SNP should do the right thing and just leave Westminster altogether! I'm sure the SNP will do that of their own accord altogether at the next GE.


Steve201 View member profile	22nd February 2024, 08:50 AM Post #1800
Shakin Stevens Joined: 29 December 2007 Posts: 46,168 User: 5,138	Those who write this off as politicking by the snp don’t see the importance of the issue imo!