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 The Official Labour Foot-Shoot Thread, Mk II |
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 14th July 2016, 07:58 PM
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#61
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 DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480 
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QUOTE(#BJSCSLAYERRRRRR @ Jul 14 2016, 08:40 PM)  Corbyn is a man of the people, and changing the rules like the DNC to win, when they know HE is who WE want, then this is a disgrace and a mockery of democracy. If the rules were changed by the NEC to 'stop Corbyn winning' they would have made him need nominations rather than be on the ballot automatically. |
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14th July 2016, 10:41 PM
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#62
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 11 April 2006
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QUOTE They can say that all they like. There is scarce evidence that Trident renewal will lead to another arms race (after all, we've had it for 60 years without it doing so). There is plenty of evidence or already existing proof that the first paragraph of my post will lead to its consequences. I am not willing to compromise on something that was both a. eminently winnable and b. had firm and solid evidence for its permanence in making pretty much everyone but the most well-off worse off for the next ten years, no. Everyone thinks their own ideology has "firm and solid evidence" supporting it. That is the nature of ideologies: subjective opinions are blown up in the person's mind to certainties, the ideology become self-evidently true to the person even while it looks completely irrational to other people. After all, if people didn't think there was plenty of evidence to support their own beliefs, then by their very nature they wouldn't have those beliefs anymore. This post has been edited by Danny: 14th July 2016, 10:43 PM |
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15th July 2016, 12:16 AM
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#63
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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The difference being that NUCLEAR WAR ISN'T HAPPENING AS WE SPEAK!
And there is no firm and solid evidence of the permanence of being on low welfare. I can testify to it not being an enjoyable existence at all, but it's not something that lasts forever once you're off it. Leaving the EU, with all the economic knock-on effects, is something that is going to last years. Not every bad thing automatically becomes equal just because they're all 'ideologies' - it's a little like saying 'okay, so you've got no money for healthcare in the US, but have you considered that someone else feels really strongly about KFC? The death of all those chickens is permanent'. You measure - funny this - on the basis of things like how many people something affects. How strongly affected those people are. How avoidable a given scenario is. How reversible it is. What the benefits of it in exchange for the downsides are. I consider campaigning to remain in the EU on a totally different level to something like workfare because I think in terms of sum losses to society (at *all* class levels), one is infinitely more damaging than the other. If you're at the bottom, paying a sizeable chunk more on literally anything that's imported as soon as the food futures supermarkets bought current products on expires is going to be far, far more damaging to everyone on the bottom and more acute in its severity for them than some people on long-term JSA working in a charity shop for notionally less than the minimum wage. You can't just dismiss that as 'ideology' or 'subjectivity' - it's something that *is* going to happen unless the pound rockets back up. You're not going to like it when it does, and you're definitely not going to like what the government would have done to make the pound rocket back up if it doesn't. And at that point when you consider 'what have we actually gained for all of this?', you'll understand why I consider this to be one of the most seismic events that we should have done everything in our power to prevent. And I don't even bloody LIKE the European Union all that much! |
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17th July 2016, 08:21 PM
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#64
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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For anyone interested in corbyns leadership ability...
https://m.facebook.com/thangam.debbonaire/p...157204442320083 |
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18th July 2016, 06:46 PM
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#65
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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18th July 2016, 08:44 PM
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#66
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,173 User: 7,561
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Labour is just a car crash at the moment - I don't particularly feel like this leadership challenge is going to improve things either as the two challengers would make equally weak leaders IMO. Jeremy clearly has insurmountable issues with communication, particularly engaging with those who disagree with him. Although I agree and support a lot of the issues he is raising, and there clearly is a groundswell of support behind him - he is definitely not the best person to lead the party.
I don't know what the solution is either, except going back in time and replacing him with Yvette Cooper. |
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19th July 2016, 12:22 PM
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#67
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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my solution would be to get Labour to return to collective responsibility for policy, not one central figure making it up as he goes along. In that respect Corbyn is like a mirror-image of Blair (albeit much more disorganised, but just as pig-headed that he is right and everyone else is wrong). It's an impasse, Corbyn can't govern, in any sense of the word, and will destroy the Labour Party if he stays. That means it's up to the MP's to decide whether it's worse for the party and country to follow him blindly into self-destruction, or whether they keep the stress up till he has a heart attack one day at the allotments, or else they start a new centre-left party and risk both failing.
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19th July 2016, 04:30 PM
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#68
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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Angela Eagle drops out of the leadership race.
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20th July 2016, 08:01 AM
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#69
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
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A shame, although I was backing Smith anyway. A wider debate would have been good but you can understand why the PLP only wanted two candidates.
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20th July 2016, 09:59 AM
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#70
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
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It also would have been ridiculous for them to field a right wing candidate like Eagle against Corbyn - there would have only been one winner - at least Smith (although being two faced on alot of issues) sides himself with the left of the party like Dugher, Nandy and the like.
Although it would have been good to have a woman leader for a change. |
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20th July 2016, 04:51 PM
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#71
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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The actual right of the party would have been mortified if you'd told them a year ago that we'd be having a leadership contest between Corbyn and Eagle. They'll like Smith even less.
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20th July 2016, 04:54 PM
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#72
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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A reminder also that Angela Eagle was the left's candidate in the deputy leadership election. Soft left =/= 'right wing' unless words have no meaning anymore.
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20th July 2016, 08:44 PM
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#73
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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183,541 people paid £25 to become registered supporters and qualify for a vote in the contest between existing leader Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Smith
Source: BBC News. A quick calculation reveals a revenue of £4,588,525 raised in the past 48 hours for Labour |
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20th July 2016, 08:46 PM
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#74
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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Say what you want about Corbyn but that's one hell of a war chest the party is building up.
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21st July 2016, 07:56 AM
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#75
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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QUOTE(Silas @ Jul 20 2016, 09:46 PM) Say what you want about Corbyn but that's one hell of a war chest the party is building up. Apparently it cost more than £3 per head to vet the registered supporters last summer, so possibly not. |
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22nd July 2016, 07:28 AM
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#76
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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Q) How does the Labour Party leader, in 2016, intend to bring about discipline among an unruly MP?
If you answered "phone up the MP's dad in order to get him to emotionally blackmail his son into Jeremy's way of thinking", then well done! |
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22nd July 2016, 11:57 AM
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#77
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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coulda been worse. At least they've dropped the knee-capping and worse these days...
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23rd July 2016, 07:12 PM
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#78
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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The Ever-Happy-To-Demo-Hypocrisy Private Eye has done a fab series of quotes from Corbyn, Abbott & co dating back to Kinnock and every Labour Leader: the gist is, it became a running joke that "if it's August it must be Corbyn plotting/pushing/demanding a leadership campaign" (because he has been doing for 25 years at least), while Abbott was supportive of "Going For The Kill" leadership qualities in the world of Labour Party politics during Brown's tenure.
Funny how they have both changed their minds, even though any MP of substance thinks they are utterly useless and about to cast the Labour Party into irrelevance. Loved the Eye cartoon, explaining how the brick went through the window of Angela's office. Apparently it was physics, using Momentum. PS Diane made a horrific racist comment about blue-eyed blonde Scandinavians not long back working in black communities in the NHS. Apparently (I assume) black people have totally different biology to white people, and the black patients will be scared, or the white nurses must be racist as there are no black people in their country. She did apologise for the comment so that makes it all OK. |
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4th August 2016, 06:19 PM
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#79
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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Corbyn vs Smith is on BBC News at the moment. Anyone watching it?
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4th August 2016, 07:33 PM
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#80
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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Only if it's in a boxing ring....
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