The Official Labour Foot-Shoot Thread, Mk II

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The Official Labour Foot-Shoot Thread, Mk II

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Danny View member profile	Jul 11 2016, 12:07 AM Post #21
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 11 April 2006 Posts: 4,259 User: 457	Incidentally, the latest bit of evidence that Corbyn has had more of an impact than the "moderates" did when they controlled Labour in the last Parliament: now even THERESA MAY is saying that the big business fat cats need to be brought down a peg or two. QUOTE Theresa May will promise to ensure that workers are represented on company boards and that shareholders get a binding vote on corporate pay as she launches her national campaign to become Conservative leader and prime minister. In an announcement that in some respects outflanks what Labour was offering on corporate governance at the general election, the home secretary will say on Monday that the rules on pay and board membership need to change because big business is too unaccountable. May will say: “I want to see changes in the way that big business is governed. The people who run big businesses are supposed to be accountable to outsiders, to non-executive directors, who are supposed to ask the difficult questions, think about the long term and defend the interests of shareholders. “In practice, they are drawn from the same narrow social and professional circles as the executive team and – as we have seen time and time again – the scrutiny they provide is just not good enough. “So if I’m prime minister, we’re going to change that system – and we’re going to have not just consumers represented on company boards, but workers as well.” Having workers represented on company boards is common practice in mainland Europe, and it is an idea the TUC has advocated for years, but it is a proposal that may be too corporatist for some Tory activists. It appears to go further than Labour’s 2015 manifesto, which did talk about compulsory workers’ representation, but only on remuneration committees. May will also promise to act to end the “anything goes” culture in executive pay. “We’re the Conservative party, and, yes, we’re the party of enterprise, but that does not mean we should be prepared to accept that ‘anything goes’,” she will say. “As part of the changes I want to make to corporate governance, I will make shareholder votes on corporate pay not just advisory but binding.” http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/j...ul-exit-from-eu


Qassändra View member profile	Jul 11 2016, 08:41 AM Post #22
DROTTNING! Joined: 15 April 2006 Posts: 63,953 User: 480	Osborne and Cameron were doing the exact same thing in terms of making Labourish noises before Corbyn was elected. It's called parking your tanks on the opposition's front lawn and obliterating them because you can, not responding to 'pressure from Corbyn' (which would be what exactly? The Tories are in bits and are still ahead of Labour. Do you really think Theresa May's doing this because she's waking up in a cold sweat at the threat from Corbyn?!). Incidentally, both of the things she's suggested were David Miliband policy in his leadership campaign and were mocked as weak beer by Ed supporters at the time, before we end up on a nonsense spiel claiming Theresa May is now more left-wing than Labour was before Corbyn.


Danny View member profile	Jul 11 2016, 07:10 PM Post #23
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 11 April 2006 Posts: 4,259 User: 457	QUOTE(Qassändra @ Jul 11 2016, 09:41 AM) Osborne and Cameron were doing the exact same thing in terms of making Labourish noises before Corbyn was elected. It's called parking your tanks on the opposition's front lawn and obliterating them because you can, not responding to 'pressure from Corbyn' (which would be what exactly? The Tories are in bits and are still ahead of Labour. Do you really think Theresa May's doing this because she's waking up in a cold sweat at the threat from Corbyn?!). No, obviously she doesn't fear Corbyn is going to win the election, but the point is that he has shifted the WHOLE of the political debate to the left. It is now not considered reasonable for mainstream Tories like May to NOT say that the super-rich are out of control, and that big businesses need to start thinking about the country rather than just their own pockets. That's a far cry from before 2015, when Miliband & Balls were endlessly chasing the Tories to the right, thereby making the Tories' ever more extreme spending cuts and fatcat-toadying seem more legitimate by comparison ("we're only a little bit more right-wing than Labour's positions, so we can't be that right-wing can we?") QUOTE Incidentally, both of the things she's suggested were David Miliband policy in his leadership campaign and were mocked as weak beer by Ed supporters at the time, before we end up on a nonsense spiel claiming Theresa May is now more left-wing than Labour was before Corbyn. Eh? Genuinely, when did Ed Miliband ever promise to bring down pay for the top private-sector bosses? Instead all we got from him were idiotic comments like "I'm not only relaxed about people getting filthy rich, I applaud it".


Qassändra View member profile	Jul 11 2016, 08:41 PM Post #24
DROTTNING! Joined: 15 April 2006 Posts: 63,953 User: 480	QUOTE(Danny @ Jul 11 2016, 08:10 PM) No, obviously she doesn't fear Corbyn is going to win the election, but the point is that he has shifted the WHOLE of the political debate to the left. It is now not considered reasonable for mainstream Tories like May to NOT say that the super-rich are out of control, and that big businesses need to start thinking about the country rather than just their own pockets. That's a far cry from before 2015, when Miliband & Balls were endlessly chasing the Tories to the right, thereby making the Tories' ever more extreme spending cuts and fatcat-toadying seem more legitimate by comparison ("we're only a little bit more right-wing than Labour's positions, so we can't be that right-wing can we?") Again, this narrative you've set up doesn't really fit with Cameron and Osborne doing a similar land grab in last year's budget before Corbyn. QUOTE(Danny @ Jul 11 2016, 08:10 PM) Eh? Genuinely, when did Ed Miliband ever promise to bring down pay for the top private-sector bosses? Instead all we got from him were idiotic comments like "I'm not only relaxed about people getting filthy rich, I applaud it". Ed Miliband never promised to 'bring down pay' for the top private-sector bosses, but that isn't what Theresa May is promising either. Shareholders getting to vote on executive pay and workers being on company boards are the policies here - both were proposed by Ed and David respectively during their leadership campaigns, and workers being on remuneration boards was in the Labour manifesto last year! And again, you're seriously cherrypicking if you think 'all' Ed ever had to say about business was 'I applaud people getting filthy rich'. Laughably so.


Doctor Blind View member profile	Jul 11 2016, 09:02 PM Post #25
#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue' Joined: 27 October 2008 Posts: 16,168 User: 7,561	Osborne and Cameron said EXACTLY the same sort of thing back in 2010 - it's all part of their 'move to the centre, then move the centre' shtick and May is no different. Kind of has nothing to do with Corbyn at all IMO.


Danny View member profile	Jul 12 2016, 02:05 PM Post #26
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 11 April 2006 Posts: 4,259 User: 457	When did Cameron or Osborne EVER say that big businesses were acting irresponsibly? All they did was some token talk about how "inequality is bad", before then pushing forward policies that would make inequality worse.


Danny View member profile	Jul 12 2016, 02:06 PM Post #27
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 11 April 2006 Posts: 4,259 User: 457	Rou ReynoldsVerified account ‏@RouReynolds 4h4 hours ago I’m no blinkered Corbynite but how on earth can anyone believe Angela Eagle offers the charisma & leadership panache that Corbyn lacks?!


Botchia View member profile	Jul 12 2016, 08:12 PM Post #28
I Drink Wine Joined: 12 April 2015 Posts: 10,484 User: 21,753	^this. I can't believe Angela Eagle is the only alternative being offered. We're better off with Corbyn


Rooney View member profile	Jul 12 2016, 08:49 PM Post #29
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,594 User: 88	So-long Labour party... Lib Dems and UKIP probably partying right now


Qassändra View member profile	Jul 12 2016, 09:13 PM Post #30
DROTTNING! Joined: 15 April 2006 Posts: 63,953 User: 480	We've still got freedom of movement to Dignitas right?


Doctor Blind View member profile	Jul 12 2016, 09:25 PM Post #31
#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue' Joined: 27 October 2008 Posts: 16,168 User: 7,561	Aw, I was hoping for the even more farcical situation of Angela Eagle being the only name on the ballot paper. : (


Qassändra View member profile	Jul 12 2016, 11:16 PM Post #32
DROTTNING! Joined: 15 April 2006 Posts: 63,953 User: 480	At this point I think the only hope is for a candidate like Keir Starmer to come forward and give a proper plan for what Labour would do to make Brexit work for ordinary people. It's probably the closest thing Corbyn has to a blind spot (I can imagine him just talking in generalities on it) and it's something where there's the room for a proper competing Labour vision against the Tories.


Harve View member profile	Jul 12 2016, 11:22 PM Post #33
Cœur poids plume Joined: 3 November 2007 Posts: 18,129 User: 4,718	It'll get even more farcical once Corbyn gets re-elected right? Like I don't see how the Labour party is going to survive this.


Doctor Blind View member profile	Jul 12 2016, 11:47 PM Post #34
#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue' Joined: 27 October 2008 Posts: 16,168 User: 7,561	Well you are making an assumption that Corbyn has enough support to be re-elected, I don't think that will necessarily be the case should someone (please GOD not just Angela 'Lynn from Alan Partridge' Eagle) come forward with a credible alternative that speaks to, and inspires the membership. Sad to see John McTernan lose it on BBC News this evening ('the Labour party is dead') and Alastair Campbell swear at Paul Mason on that Twitter thing. I think people need to calm down!


Danny View member profile	Jul 13 2016, 02:20 AM Post #35
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 11 April 2006 Posts: 4,259 User: 457	QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jul 13 2016, 12:47 AM) Well you are making an assumption that Corbyn has enough support to be re-elected, I don't think that will necessarily be the case should someone (please GOD not just Angela 'Lynn from Alan Partridge' Eagle) come forward with a credible alternative that speaks to, and inspires the membership. Sad to see John McTernan lose it on BBC News this evening ('the Labour party is dead') and Alastair Campbell swear at Paul Mason on that Twitter thing. I think people need to calm down! We all would ideally want a candidate like that, but the thing is that, if such an alternative candidate existed who could vaguely inspire the membership at the same time as being a plausible election-winner, Corbyn would never have got elected in the first place. Most Labour members are not Trots who think Corbyn is the new messiah. The average Labour activist was well aware of Corbyn's many flaws when they voted for him a year ago, but they just saw him as a lesser evil when compared to a bunch of "career politicians" who didn't even have the spine to stand up to the Tories on something as basic as protecting vulnerable benefit-claimants, and who didn't possess anything like the charisma or gravitas to have a hope of winning a general election. It's hard to see how anything's changed on that front in the past year, especially when the PLP just gave us another look at their dire political judgement by enthusiastically backing the doomed Remain campaign. This post has been edited by Danny: Jul 13 2016, 02:22 AM


Liаm View member profile	Jul 13 2016, 03:07 AM Post #36
Brown cow, stunning! Joined: 7 December 2009 Posts: 67,160 User: 10,139	Angela Eagle, christ no. I just hope a more viable candidate who can unify the party stands before its too low because otherwise we'd just be better staying with Corbyn. Not that Corbyn is going to work as a leader either the way the party is going, god knows what is going to happen, it's a case of just waiting and seeing how much worse it gets atm


Rooney View member profile	Jul 13 2016, 09:31 AM Post #37
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,594 User: 88	The country is at it's strongest with a strong Labour opposition (or vice-versa). I don't think Angela Eagle is the answer, but I think she would steady the ship and stop a lot of pro-EU Labour supporters from jumping away to the Greens/Lib Dems. There are a lot of Labour supporters understandably upset at what Corbyn is doing to the party, but keeping him in charge is just going to do more damage for the longer term.


Iz 🌟 View member profile	Jul 13 2016, 09:47 AM Post #38
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,403 User: 12,929	It's going to take a long time for Labour to come out of this, I'm frustrated because they're all people I'd happily see leading the country over May but they're all lacking in charisma and the drive to actually do anything that isn't fighting each other. If a better option than Eagle exists, I'd take it, but really I just want the leader, whoever it is, Corbyn, Eagle or someone else, to start holding the government to account and get the party acting like a credible opposition. Although I'm wondering at this point whether the only way they'll go back to being stable and not prone to foot shooting is to disastrously lose in an election.


Qassändra View member profile	Jul 13 2016, 10:09 AM Post #39
DROTTNING! Joined: 15 April 2006 Posts: 63,953 User: 480	Danny - what are your thoughts on Owen Smith?


Silas View member profile	Jul 13 2016, 10:17 AM Post #40
Queen of Soon Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 74,051 User: 3,474	This is gifting May the chance to hold an early election and gain a mandate. Labour aren't in a position to boil a kettle right now and the longer this farce continues the more of a gift this gives the Tories.