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BuzzJack Music Forum _ News and Politics _ Formerly Forthcoming Tory leadership race

Posted by: Common Sense May 16 2019, 09:11 PM

So, May is on notice now and been told to go by the 1922 Committee after she tries MV4 again, whether it's passed or not. Speculation is that she'll leave No.10 immediately and that David Liddington will be Acting PM whilst a leadership election is held.

So, two confirmed candidates so far. Boris Johnson and Esther McVey.

Who would you like to see as leader and who do you think has a good chance of actually getting it and becoming the next PM? Can Boris get enough MP support to put him through to the membership ballot?

I'd like to see Boris win but have a hunch Gove will actually get it. Think Hunt will stand too.

Posted by: Brett-Butler May 16 2019, 09:17 PM

The smart money for me would be Home Secretary Sajid Javid. It's not going to be Boris, and it's not going to be Jacob Rees-Mogg - they are much less popular amongst their fellow MPs than they are amongst Conservative voters, and the way the Tory leadership contest means that neither are likely to make it to the final two for the wider party run-off, unless they are the only two people that put themselves forward, or are two of only three that do so.

Posted by: Harve May 16 2019, 09:18 PM

I really don't care about this much as it won't change the parliamentary arithmetic (unless Phillip Lee, Justine Greening etc. want to defect and vote no confidence upon an ERG PM I know you want to pls that would be really really exciting). In reality it's just gonna embarrass the UK on the international stage even further when the Tories choose a zoomer to represent their zoomer membership.

But Rory Stewart, Matt Hancock, Gove, Penny Mordaunt or Amber Rudd would be some of the less terrible candidates.

Posted by: Common Sense May 16 2019, 09:27 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ May 16 2019, 10:17 PM) *
The smart money for me would be Home Secretary Sajid Javid. It's not going to be Boris, and it's not going to be Jacob Rees-Mogg - they are much less popular amongst their fellow MPs than they are amongst Conservative voters, and the way the Tory leadership contest means that neither are likely to make it to the final two for the wider party run-off, unless they are the only two people that put themselves forward, or are two of only three that do so.



I don't think JRM will stand to be honest. I can see Javid and Gove going to the party membership.

Some newspaper political editors are saying that Boris wouldn't be standing if he didn't think he could get enough MP's to see him through to the run off with the membership.

Posted by: Doctor Blind May 16 2019, 09:42 PM

After his disgraceful behaviour over the past year Boris is very much out of favour with the majority of Conservative MPs, so I really do not see him making the final two. He is the favourite at the moment and we all know the favourite never wins a leadership election in the Conservative Party.

Further to this, he is on track to lose his seat in the next General Election at the moment (on current polling).

I picked Amber Rudd in the 2019 Predictions thread and for now I stand by that prediction. I think the Tories will want to put two moderates up for leadership, however if any Brexit favouring candidates make it to the final two (Dominic Raab, Michael Gove) then they will easily win.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 16 2019, 09:55 PM

QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ May 16 2019, 10:42 PM) *
After his disgraceful behaviour over the past year Boris is very much out of favour with the majority of Conservative MPs, so I really do not see him making the final two. He is the favourite at the moment and we all know the favourite never wins a leadership election in the Conservative Party.

Further to this, he is on track to lose his seat in the next General Election at the moment (on current polling).

I picked Amber Rudd in the 2019 Predictions thread and for now I stand by that prediction. I think the Tories will want to put two moderates up for leadership, however if any Brexit favouring candidates make it to the final two (Dominic Raab, Michael Gove) then they will easily win.

Amber Rudd's majority is far more precarious than Johnson's.

Posted by: Steve201 May 16 2019, 10:58 PM

Amber Rudd is desperate to be PM!!

I think Sajid Javid has a good chance, he's fairly hardline on social issues, has a good background story being the son of a migrant and working his way up and he fairly inocuous when it comes to Brexit - a brexiteer but not overly loud about it!

Posted by: vidcapper May 17 2019, 05:06 AM

QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ May 16 2019, 10:42 PM) *
After his disgraceful behaviour over the past year Boris is very much out of favour with the majority of Conservative MPs, so I really do not see him making the final two. He is the favourite at the moment and we all know the favourite never wins a leadership election in the Conservative Party.

Further to this, he is on track to lose his seat in the next General Election at the moment (on current polling).


I don't put too much stock in current polling though, it is all over the place! tongue.gif

Posted by: Popchartfreak May 17 2019, 07:10 AM

Thatcher.

A zombie leader for an Undead political party.

Posted by: Common Sense May 17 2019, 07:51 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ May 16 2019, 11:58 PM) *
Amber Rudd is desperate to be PM!!



Rudd is very likely to lose her seat at the next election if there's a big swing to Labour and Corbyn's elected. Anyway don't think they'll go for another woman.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn May 17 2019, 08:49 AM

All my instincts point towards Michael Gove being the next PM.

Whatever way you look at it though, it's so bloody bleak. Much as I solemnly detest Madame Mayhem, the thought of what could happen after this terrifies me.

Posted by: vidcapper May 17 2019, 08:59 AM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ May 17 2019, 09:49 AM) *
All my instincts point towards Michael Gove being the next PM.

Whatever way you look at it though, it's so bloody bleak. Much as I solemnly detest Madame Mayhem, the thought of what could happen after this terrifies me.


If you're referring to Brexit, I think you are over-egging the pudding a bit. unsure.gif

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn May 17 2019, 10:17 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 17 2019, 09:59 AM) *
If you're referring to Brexit, I think you are over-egging the pudding a bit. unsure.gif


I'm talking specifically about who could potentially end up at the helm after she's gone.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 17 2019, 11:52 AM

Just about the only positive thing that can be said about May is that the likely alternatives on the Tory benches are even worse.

Posted by: Liаm May 17 2019, 12:07 PM

I'm thinking Gove too, as said most of the realisitc options are far worse than even Theresa so it's hardly the good thing we want it to be that she's off drama.gif

QUOTE(Steve201 @ May 16 2019, 11:58 PM) *
Amber Rudd is desperate to be PM!!

She's desperate enough just to stay as an MP!! Queen of recounts.

Posted by: LexC May 17 2019, 12:09 PM

Penny Mordaunt’s constituency is 30 seconds away from my house and can I just say ANYBODY but her!

Posted by: LexC May 17 2019, 12:10 PM

Gut instinct is it’ll be Jeremy Hunt and Dominic Raab that make it to the membership vote and Raab will win it.

Posted by: Iz~ May 17 2019, 12:59 PM

I'm thinking similar Lex, but Hunt against Gove, with Gove then winning. Picking ones ideal leader out of the bunch is not a pleasant process but I might be inclined to say Hunt... very reservedly.

There are surprisingly a lot of names that have maneuvered themselves well. This will be chaotic (as if it were going to be anything but).

Posted by: Common Sense May 17 2019, 01:47 PM

According to some posters on DS, if Boris gets through to the last two then he'll win, simply because he's the likeliest to beat Corbyn in a general election. Polls have shown that and the Tories want to stay in power at any cost. His problem is getting past the MP's though so he'll be promising Cabinet and Ministerial posts right left and centre. Such as McVey may drop out if promised a cabinet post and get behind Boris. That's the thinking anyway.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 17 2019, 01:52 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 17 2019, 02:47 PM) *
According to some posters on DS, if Boris gets through to the last two then he'll win, simply because he's the likeliest to beat Corbyn in a general election. Polls have shown that and the Tories want to stay in power at any cost. His problem is getting past the MP's though so he'll be promising Cabinet and Ministerial posts right left and centre. Such as McVey may drop out if promised a cabinet post and get behind Boris. That's the thinking anyway.

So DS posters agree with just about every political commentator in the country. Wow.

Any MP who believes a promise of a Cabinet seat from Johnson should be automatically disqualified from public office on the grounds of showing dangerous naivety. Why would anyone believe a man who has been sacked from two jobs and two marriages for lying?

Posted by: Popchartfreak May 18 2019, 09:03 AM

The Tories are going to be shit-scared of being wiped out and a left-wing Labour gov getting in, they will always look after number one regardless of the consequences. That means jolly old uncle Boris, or some hot new candidate with no baggage that might attract voters. Not seeing the latter at the mo.....

Gove would be like giving power to Golom. Though it would be fun to see Gove vs Johnson stabbing each other in the back and letting a dark horse through. (Cos that turned out so well last time)

Posted by: Harve May 18 2019, 09:10 AM

QUOTE(LexC @ May 17 2019, 01:09 PM) *
Penny Mordaunt’s constituency is 30 seconds away from my house and can I just say ANYBODY but her!

I listed her as one of the less-bad options not because she's done anything good, but because she's managed to be in the cabinet for nearly 2 years without saying or doing anything repulsive, unless I've not been paying attention. That's quite a feat for a Tory and even more impressive given that she's a Brexiteer.

Posted by: Brett-Butler May 18 2019, 02:23 PM

QUOTE(Harve @ May 18 2019, 10:10 AM) *
I listed her as one of the less-bad options not because she's done anything good, but because she's managed to be in the cabinet for nearly 2 years without saying or doing anything repulsive, unless I've not been paying attention. That's quite a feat for a Tory and even more impressive given that she's a Brexiteer.


She's caused some controversy over here in certain parts of the community recently due to her pledge to grant amnesty to British soldiers facing charges in Northern Ireland, including those involved in Bloody Sunday.

Posted by: Common Sense May 18 2019, 02:41 PM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ May 18 2019, 10:03 AM) *
The Tories are going to be shit-scared of being wiped out and a left-wing Labour gov getting in, they will always look after number one regardless of the consequences. That means jolly old uncle Boris, or some hot new candidate with no baggage that might attract voters. Not seeing the latter at the mo.....



Boris will win in a landslide if he gets to the last two.

There needs to be a proper contest this time and not just a coronation like last time.

Posted by: Rooney May 18 2019, 03:47 PM

I think Gove would be the best of a bad bunch. Boris Johnson is clearly popular with the Tory membership but I think almongst MPs he's genuinely disliked. Mainly because he suit what is best for himself. He would be a very populist choice of Leader and I'm sure many people who vote for him at any General Election in the same way people vote for Corbyn.

Doesn't matter who they get, I can't see them winning any majority at a General Election. Someone like Javid or Raab would be a horrible choice.

Posted by: Common Sense May 18 2019, 04:14 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ May 18 2019, 04:47 PM) *
Doesn't matter who they get, I can't see them winning any majority at a General Election. Someone like Javid or Raab would be a horrible choice.



I can see Boris getting a small working majority if the election's not until 2022.

Posted by: Rooney May 18 2019, 04:48 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 18 2019, 05:14 PM) *
I can see Boris getting a small working majority if the election's not until 2022.


I can't see that if Brexit happens, especially a harder version. No party will be able to command a majority.

Posted by: Harve May 18 2019, 06:27 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ May 18 2019, 03:23 PM) *
She's caused some controversy over here in certain parts of the community recently due to her pledge to grant amnesty to British soldiers facing charges in Northern Ireland, including those involved in Bloody Sunday.

She's been defence secretary for barely a few weeks and she's already taken the opportunity to double-down on Gavin Williamson's bellicose tenure as defence secretary?? Christ.

Yeah let's actually not play the Let's Find The Least Problematic Tory game cuz unsurprisingly they've all done something awful. x Even with the outriders like Anna Soubry who might stick up for some things we care about.

Posted by: Steve201 May 19 2019, 12:32 AM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ May 18 2019, 03:23 PM) *
She's caused some controversy over here in certain parts of the community recently due to her pledge to grant amnesty to British soldiers facing charges in Northern Ireland, including those involved in Bloody Sunday.


Most tories such as Johnny Mercer have been falling over themselves to align themselves with right wing loyalism since the new generation came to power in 2010 totally stompin all over the great legacy of the GFA, of which the foundations were created by John Major in the early 90s.

Posted by: Common Sense May 21 2019, 09:16 PM

It's emerged tonight that FOUR Tory leadership challengers could go forward to the ballot of party members.

That would be very good news for Boris.

Boris Johnson is favourite to be the next Prime Minister.
At the moment, only two contenders are allowed through to the final run-off, with a ballot of party members deciding which of them is the winner.

But it has emerged that the executive of the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers and the party's ruling board are to consider calls to double that number to four.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 21 2019, 09:22 PM

Yeah, just make up the rules as you go along. And this bunch of clueless numpties are supposed to be running the country.

Posted by: Common Sense May 21 2019, 09:24 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 21 2019, 10:22 PM) *
Yeah, just make up the rules as you go along. And this bunch of clueless numpties are supposed to be running the country.



The 1922 committee is said to be virtually split on the issue but has to consider it as a lot of the membership apparently thinks just two candidates is rather archaic.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 21 2019, 09:58 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 21 2019, 10:24 PM) *
The 1922 committee is said to be virtually split on the issue but has to consider it as a lot of the membership apparently thinks just two candidates is rather archaic.

The 1922 committee is split on most things.

If they allow four candidates to go through, that would mean that they could end up with a leader who is only third or fourth choice among MPs. We all saw how Ed Miliband was treated by the press when he wasn’t the MPs’ preferred leader. Of course, the same press will conveniently forget how unpopular the serial liar is with his MPs if he gets the job.

Posted by: Common Sense May 23 2019, 09:50 PM

So May will make a live televised statement to the nation tomorrow lunchtime outside No.10 if it's fine, inside if not, after meeting the 1922 Committee again. She's expected to say she'll resign on Monday 10th June so will stay on for Trump's visit on 3rd and D-Day events. The Tory leadership race will start officially on 10th too but it's not clear yet if she'll stay on as caretaker PM until a new one's elected, maybe in late July, or ask The Queen to appoint David Liddington as Acting PM. She may clarify this tomorrow.

She's apparently decided to go rather than wait to be forced out but wants to host Trump's visit as PM and the 1922 seems to have agreed to this.

Posted by: Rooney May 23 2019, 10:45 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 23 2019, 10:50 PM) *
So May will make a live televised statement to the nation tomorrow lunchtime outside No.10 if it's fine, inside if not, after meeting the 1922 Committee again. She's expected to say she'll resign on Monday 10th June so will stay on for Trump's visit on 3rd and D-Day events. The Tory leadership race will start officially on 10th too but it's not clear yet if she'll stay on as caretaker PM until a new one's elected, maybe in late July, or ask The Queen to appoint David Liddington as Acting PM. She may clarify this tomorrow.

She's apparently decided to go rather than wait to be forced out but wants to host Trump's visit as PM and the 1922 seems to have agreed to this.


The 1922 committee obviously fearful Brexit won’t happen now. Only way I can see this going is a new leader forces No Deal which ensures chaos inside Westminster or we are in for another large Brexit delay.

Posted by: Steve201 May 24 2019, 01:40 AM

The new leader will have to have a general election for two fold reasons - legitimacy and to break the parliamentary dead lock!

Posted by: Klaus May 24 2019, 07:04 AM

Imagine a Trump state visit being the last thing you do as Prime Minister. I’d want to make sure I got out beforehand

Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 07:14 AM

QUOTE(Rooney @ May 23 2019, 11:45 PM) *
The 1922 committee obviously fearful Brexit won’t happen now. Only way I can see this going is a new leader forces No Deal which ensures chaos inside Westminster or we are in for another large Brexit delay.



I hope Boris gets in and is brave and forces no deal.

Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 07:15 AM

QUOTE(Klaus @ May 24 2019, 08:04 AM) *
Imagine a Trump state visit being the last thing you do as Prime Minister. I’d want to make sure I got out beforehand



Why? As I said on DS, I'd want to stay on too as it's a great honour to host the POTUS as PM.

Posted by: vidcapper May 24 2019, 08:41 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 08:15 AM) *
Why? As I said on DS, I'd want to stay on too as it's a great honour to host the POTUS as PM.


Although less so, this one... wink.gif

Posted by: Jester May 24 2019, 08:59 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 08:14 AM) *
I hope Boris gets in and is brave and forces no deal.

'Brave' for no deal? How can you even think that a no deal is an honourable or good thing?!

Madness. Utter madness and sheer selfishness that will bring the rest of us down with you.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner May 24 2019, 09:09 AM

May quits on June 7th

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn May 24 2019, 09:10 AM

QUOTE(Jester @ May 24 2019, 09:59 AM) *
'Brave' for no deal? How can you even think that a no deal is an honourable or good thing?!

Madness. Utter madness and sheer selfishness that will bring the rest of us down with you.


You unfortunately won't ever get him to see that, sadly.

Posted by: Rooney May 24 2019, 09:10 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 08:14 AM) *
I hope Boris gets in and is brave and forces no deal.


I couldn’t see Boris doing that. Boris does what’s best for Boris. If No Deal gets enforced, I think it breaks up the Conservative Party, the Union and probably kills off the party for a generation. There’s no majority for No Deal in Parliament.

Posted by: Liаm May 24 2019, 09:11 AM

YAAAAS SHE'S GONE

As we've said, the alternatives will probably be as bad if not worse, but hey let's be positive about her going for a second.

Posted by: Klaus May 24 2019, 09:12 AM

This is the moment in history where it’s a case of ‘you though THIS was bad, you ain’t seen nothing yet!’

Posted by: Iz~ May 24 2019, 09:14 AM

YAY

and shit, whatever’s coming is about to be actively terrible instead of a can-kicking charisma void.

Posted by: Rooney May 24 2019, 09:25 AM

QUOTE(Klaus @ May 24 2019, 10:12 AM) *
This is the moment in history where it’s a case of ‘you though THIS was bad, you ain’t seen nothing yet!’


Agreed. The vocal elements of the Tory Party clearly want a more Conservative leader. May was useless but at least she had half a brain. Will now be interesting to see whether the Pro-EU Tories and May’s allies who supported leaving through gritted teeth decide between the good of the country or the Conservative Party.

Posted by: Popchartfreak May 24 2019, 09:26 AM

May Day. Now it gets vicious as chaos ensues whoever gets in, and the EU gets pissed at another 3 months wasted. I can see the EU forcing a showdown: either retract article 50 until you sort yourselves out or leave with no deal October. At which point if that happens without a referendum society in the UK gets massively divided for the forseeable future and everyone who didn't vote for a No Deal Brexit hates everyone who forced it on the country, blames them for their declining standards of living and opportunities, and bitterness lasts a generation. Tories will be wrecked, and Labour blamed for doing nothing to stop it.

I've seen it first hand in the closure of the pits and Thatcher in the 80's. Hate is for life....

Still, happy Bank Holiday! laugh.gif

Posted by: Jester May 24 2019, 09:40 AM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ May 24 2019, 10:26 AM) *
May Day. Now it gets vicious as chaos ensues whoever gets in, and the EU gets pissed at another 3 months wasted. I can see the EU forcing a showdown: either retract article 50 until you sort yourselves out or leave with no deal October. At which point if that happens without a referendum society in the UK gets massively divided for the forseeable future and everyone who didn't vote for a No Deal Brexit hates everyone who forced it on the country, blames them for their declining standards of living and opportunities, and bitterness lasts a generation. Tories will be wrecked, and Labour blamed for doing nothing to stop it.

I've seen it first hand in the closure of the pits and Thatcher in the 80's. Hate is for life....

Still, happy Bank Holiday! laugh.gif

I agree with this. What a shambles we are as a country. I always feared a no deal (and this will be bad for all of us) and this is practically guaranteed now sad.gif

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn May 24 2019, 09:48 AM

She's literally clung on so she can beat Gordon Brown's tenure.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner May 24 2019, 10:07 AM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ May 24 2019, 10:26 AM) *
May Day. Now it gets vicious as chaos ensues whoever gets in, and the EU gets pissed at another 3 months wasted. I can see the EU forcing a showdown: either retract article 50 until you sort yourselves out or leave with no deal October. At which point if that happens without a referendum society in the UK gets massively divided for the forseeable future and everyone who didn't vote for a No Deal Brexit hates everyone who forced it on the country, blames them for their declining standards of living and opportunities, and bitterness lasts a generation. Tories will be wrecked, and Labour blamed for doing nothing to stop it.

I've seen it first hand in the closure of the pits and Thatcher in the 80's. Hate is for life....

Still, happy Bank Holiday! laugh.gif

This really makes me nervous. I am going to move to Germany at the end of my lease, so the 30th of November but I’m contemplating moving out a month and a half early so I can get into the country and register before Scheißetag at the end of October. I hate the uncertainty of all this. I just want to know what my legal status will be. I can’t even contemplate how it is for those currently in limbo like Harve

Posted by: Chez Wombat May 24 2019, 10:25 AM

Surely one of the least effective prime ministers in history? Granted no one could really succeed in this mess right now, but if there’s anything worthwhile she’s done I’ve missed it.

That said, a hard brexiteer taking the seat looks increasingly likely now and shit will hit the fan even more. Yay...:/

Posted by: Mart!n May 24 2019, 10:26 AM

This is the moment where I say GOOD RIDDANCE

Posted by: Rooney May 24 2019, 10:30 AM

QUOTE(Jester @ May 24 2019, 10:40 AM) *
I agree with this. What a shambles we are as a country. I always feared a no deal (and this will be bad for all of us) and this is practically guaranteed now sad.gif


No Deal could happen, but it treads a very fine line as the people who think No Deal is a good idea now in the General Public will soon change their minds when they understand the reality. No idea what is going to happen, but suspect it’s going to tear the country apart for a lifetime. No going back if No Deal gets pushed through by default

Posted by: coi May 24 2019, 10:34 AM

QUOTE(Chez Wombat @ May 24 2019, 11:25 AM) *
Surely one of the least ineffective prime ministers in history? Granted no one could really succeed in this mess right now, but if there’s anything worthwhile she’s done I’ve missed it.

laugh.gif that's a double negative

Posted by: Chez Wombat May 24 2019, 11:50 AM

I was on my phone ok x

Posted by: TheJüpreme May 24 2019, 11:56 AM

Good riddance to the evil old bat. If only we could strip her of her gold-plated PM's pension too.

Whoever gets in next I hope they destroy the Tory party and split the vote. Leadsom looks awful so lets go for her.

So much for conservative values anyway to any who support adulterer and thief Boris Johnson. Less the cream rising to the top than a floating turd that won't flush.

Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 01:39 PM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 24 2019, 09:41 AM) *
Although less so, this one... wink.gif



It's the Office and not the person who holds it that's important here. The US is our great friend and ally.

Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 01:42 PM

QUOTE(TheJüpreme @ May 24 2019, 12:56 PM) *
Good riddance to the evil old bat. If only we could strip her of her gold-plated PM's pension too.

Whoever gets in next I hope they destroy the Tory party and split the vote. Leadsom looks awful so lets go for her.

So much for conservative values anyway to any who support adulterer and thief Boris Johnson. Less the cream rising to the top than a floating turd that won't flush.



I hope the Tory MP's and then party members do the right thing this time and elect Boris as PM. He'll trounce Corbyn in the next election by getting out there and bring his great personality, fun and quips to the whole country.

Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 01:51 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ May 24 2019, 10:10 AM) *
You unfortunately won't ever get him to see that, sadly.



I don't particularly WANT no deal but just want us out at any cost ASAP as I know many other Brexiteers do too. We feel we've been lied to and shafted big time.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner May 24 2019, 02:06 PM

A Boris PM will bring about independence for Scotland. That is literally the only non-depressing thing about it

Posted by: Klaus May 24 2019, 02:08 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 02:42 PM) *
I hope the Tory MP's and then party members do the right thing this time and elect Boris as PM. He'll trounce Corbyn in the next election by getting out there and bring his great personality, fun and quips to the whole country.

Yes, what I look for in a Prime Minister is fun and quips

Posted by: Jester May 24 2019, 02:09 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 02:51 PM) *
I don't particularly WANT no deal but just want us out at any cost ASAP as I know many other Brexiteers do too. We feel we've been lied to and shafted big time.

At any cost? Selfish selfish selfish.

Posted by: Rooney May 24 2019, 02:42 PM

QUOTE(Jester @ May 24 2019, 03:09 PM) *
At any cost? Selfish selfish selfish.


There’s no point arguing with Chris. Unfortunately like many people they just want Brexit done at any cost. Many people don’t realise what that cost is actually going to be to them until it happens. It’s also why an elected democracy does not want us to leave without no deal.

Posted by: mald487 May 24 2019, 02:55 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ May 24 2019, 02:42 PM) *
There’s no point arguing with Chris. Unfortunately like many people they just want Brexit done at any cost. Many people don’t realise what that cost is actually going to be to them until it happens. It’s also why an elected democracy does not want us to leave without no deal.




I think at this point it's unfortunately a realistic possibility. I agree with what's been said above that it will literally tear this country apart from years. The only small silver lining will be seeing those who were wetting their knickers over a no-deal Brexit have to live with the consequences. Hopefully they suffer and their lives are permenantly disrupted to a certain extent.

Posted by: blacksquare May 24 2019, 02:55 PM

I don't think I have mentally prepared myself for Boris as PM.


Posted by: blacksquare May 24 2019, 02:57 PM

QUOTE(mald487 @ May 24 2019, 03:55 PM) *
I think at this point it's unfortunately a realistic possibility. I agree with what's been said above that it will literally tear this country apart from years. The only small silver lining will be seeing those who were wetting their knickers over a no-deal Brexit have to live with the consequences. Hopefully they suffer and their lives are permenantly disrupted to a certain extent.


There will always be something else to blame, and it won't be No Deal Brexit.

Posted by: Envoirment May 24 2019, 04:45 PM

Am I the only one who doesn't necessarily like that May's resigned? Don't get me wrong, I don't like her and she was completely incompetent. But the replacements for her are far worse and her can-kicking made the prospect of a people's vote or another referendum more likely.

I feel the EU will get fed up and pretty much give us an ultimatum come October if nothing is still agreed - either leave with no deal or retract Article 50 and remain part of the EU. If we get a PM that's more for a hard brexit, I fear we'll be looking at a no deal come October.


Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 05:16 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ May 24 2019, 03:42 PM) *
There’s no point arguing with Chris. Unfortunately like many people they just want Brexit done at any cost. Many people don’t realise what that cost is actually going to be to them until it happens. It’s also why an elected democracy does not want us to leave without no deal.



Look we just want the referendum result to be honoured. The EU gave us a reasonable deal. Out of boredom late one night I researched the small print and it's far from perfect but would be acceptable and MP's should have voted for it. Serves them right if we do crash out with No Deal.

The EU will surely lose patience with us soon and refuse any more extensions. They'll say revoke or no deal.

Boris is reported as saying today that he's quite prepared for us to leave with no deal.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 24 2019, 05:24 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 02:42 PM) *
I hope the Tory MP's and then party members do the right thing this time and elect Boris as PM. He'll trounce Corbyn in the next election by getting out there and bring his great personality, fun and quips to the whole country.

How does being a serial liar count as having a great personality? How does being supremely lazy qualify someone for the office of Prime Minister at any time, let alone now? I want a PM who is competent, not fun.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 24 2019, 05:25 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 02:51 PM) *
I don't particularly WANT no deal but just want us out at any cost ASAP as I know many other Brexiteers do too. We feel we've been lied to and shafted big time.

But most of the lies came from Johnson and Farage.

Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 05:25 PM

Most political commentators today and in fact many Tory MP's that I've heard on the new channels seem to think Boris will be the next PM.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 24 2019, 05:27 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 06:16 PM) *
Look we just want the referendum result to be honoured. The EU gave us a reasonable deal. Out of boredom late one night I researched the small print and it's far from perfect but would be acceptable and MP's should have voted for it. Serves them right if we do crash out with No Deal.

The EU will surely lose patience with us soon and refuse any more extensions. They'll say revoke or no deal.

Boris is reported as saying today that he's quite prepared for us to leave with no deal.

An advisory referendum cannot be honoured. A referendum won by fraud should not be honoured.

Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 05:27 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 24 2019, 06:24 PM) *
How does being a serial liar count as having a great personality? How does being supremely lazy qualify someone for the office of Prime Minister at any time, let alone now? I want a PM who is competent, not fun.


How is he lazy? He's held down the job of London Mayor and turned up to grillings and meetings. He served as Foreign Secretary which is a strenuous job with lots of foreign travel.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 24 2019, 05:33 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 06:27 PM) *
How is he lazy? He's held down the job of London Mayor and turned up to grillings and meetings. He served as Foreign Secretary which is a strenuous job with lots of foreign travel.

As Foreign Secretary he was too lazy to bother reading the briefings prepared for him. That's how he made so many gaffes.

What did he actually achieve as London Mayor? What are these "grillings" to which he was subjected. Do you mean the occasions when he just insulted anyone who asked a vaguely difficult question?

He was sacked from one job because he was too lazy to get some genuine quotes for an article and just made them up.

Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 05:37 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 24 2019, 06:33 PM) *
What did he actually achieve as London Mayor? What are these "grillings" to which he was subjected. Do you mean the occasions when he just insulted anyone who asked a vaguely difficult question?


The regular grillings of the Mayor. Used to watch them live on BBC Parliament and he came across very informed and knowledgeable about all the subjects.

Posted by: Doctor Blind May 24 2019, 05:43 PM



"...making up quotes, lying to your party leader, wanting to be part of someone being physically assaulted - you’re a nasty piece of work aren’t you?"

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 24 2019, 05:44 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 06:37 PM) *
The regular grillings of the Mayor. Used to watch them live on BBC Parliament and he came across very informed and knowledgeable about all the subjects.

So you do mean the "grillings" where he answere4d difficult questions with insults.

I'm still waiting for an example of anything he actually achieved as mayor.

Of course, it would be wrong to overlook some of his other pronouncements. Like, for example, his description of an investigation into alleged child abuse that resulted in no prosecutions as "spaffing money up the wall".

Posted by: Brett-Butler May 24 2019, 05:51 PM

People who know my moral persuasion will be able to pinpoint exactly why I dislike Boris Johnson.

As I've said before, I can't see him being PM, as I can't see him being voted into the final two by his fellow Conservative MPs, regardless of who puts themselves forward for the leadership. I can't make a prediction as two which two they will be until we see who is running, but I think one of them will be someone none of us would have initially expected (no-one would've predicted Andrea Leadsom would have made the final two last time, mainly because no-one had heard of her until that point).

Posted by: TheJüpreme May 24 2019, 05:52 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 06:27 PM) *
How is he lazy? He's held down the job of London Mayor and turned up to grillings and meetings. He served as Foreign Secretary which is a strenuous job with lots of foreign travel.


And was paid through the nose for it! Not much I wouldn't do for that kind of money never mind sitting in on a few meetings a week and every now and then giving a speech!

Posted by: Rooney May 24 2019, 06:03 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 06:16 PM) *
Look we just want the referendum result to be honoured. The EU gave us a reasonable deal. Out of boredom late one night I researched the small print and it's far from perfect but would be acceptable and MP's should have voted for it. Serves them right if we do crash out with No Deal.

The EU will surely lose patience with us soon and refuse any more extensions. They'll say revoke or no deal.

Boris is reported as saying today that he's quite prepared for us to leave with no deal.


The thing is though Chris, the Backbenchers that orchestrated May's departure are the ones that voted against her deal. If all her party support (including DUP) voted for it, it would pass, we would have Brexit. But they have not. This is for me why it is unacceptable to have No Deal, it is not what the people voted for in the Referendum.

Everybody is going to say they favour No Deal because they need to say the right things to get elected. I still can't see No Deal happening and if it happens through default then it's going to cause carnage both socially and politically.

Posted by: Popchartfreak May 24 2019, 07:06 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 02:42 PM) *
I hope the Tory MP's and then party members do the right thing this time and elect Boris as PM. He'll trounce Corbyn in the next election by getting out there and bring his great personality, fun and quips to the whole country.


well if we're going for unscrupulous lying comedians with great personalities who cheat on their wives and waste 100's of millions of pounds of tax payers money on failed projects when in power, and are useless in their most-recent jobs (I speak on behalf of his fellow-Tories and staff, not my opinion) who couldn't even vote for the Brexit deal that he promised and had dangled in front of him, comprising pretty much what he claimed during the referendum - then yes he would be perfect to tear the UK apart.

Posted by: Popchartfreak May 24 2019, 07:10 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 06:16 PM) *
Look we just want the referendum result to be honoured. The EU gave us a reasonable deal. Out of boredom late one night I researched the small print and it's far from perfect but would be acceptable and MP's should have voted for it. Serves them right if we do crash out with No Deal.

The EU will surely lose patience with us soon and refuse any more extensions. They'll say revoke or no deal.

Boris is reported as saying today that he's quite prepared for us to leave with no deal.


I agree they gave us a reasonable deal. Boris, though, didn't vote for it and has slagged it off throughout. He just wants to be PM at any cost, even if it tears the UK apart. Don't take my word for it though, one of my Tory friends has worked for him in his last job (and his successors and predecessors) and nobody who really knows him well thinks he's any good at anything except promoting Boris Johnson.

Posted by: Popchartfreak May 24 2019, 07:30 PM

Here's a nice fact: in the last 23 years the Tories have had a majority for only 2 years. In that 2 years they managed to f*** up the country big time and most of the perpetrators all f***ed off, resigned and turned away from their promises.

You'd have to be insane to believe anything they ever say again.....

Posted by: Steve201 May 24 2019, 09:41 PM

It is a good fact.

They have rarely had a true majority since 2010 even which shows the consequences of Thatcherism.

Graham Brady & Steve Baker are said to be thinking of standing.

Posted by: Steve201 May 24 2019, 10:08 PM

Good quote on newsnight about May: 'A Dutiful person in an age of fundamentalists'

Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 10:18 PM

Amber Rudd hints she could work with Boris and support him.

From The Telegraph. There's more but it's behind a paywall.

"Amber Rudd hints she would work with Boris Johnson as she rules herself out of Tory leadership race

Amber Rudd has signalled she could work with Boris Johnson if he becomes Prime Minister as she formally rules herself out of the Tory leadership race.

The Work and Pensions secretary left the door open to the creation of a ‘Bamber’ joint leadership ticket in next month’s battle to succeed Theresa May.

Amid speculation she could become Mr Johnson’s Chancellor, she said "would like to lower taxes – we have to be the low tax party because people have certain expectations and they need to be able to look after their own money"

Ms Rudd also waded into the row over the UK’s new mobile 5G network, saying “we should be able to do business with China and Huawei”.

Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 10:19 PM

First female Chancellor. Bamber - bring it on!

Posted by: TheJüpreme May 24 2019, 10:21 PM

No doubt she would lower taxes on the rich.

Posted by: Common Sense May 24 2019, 10:22 PM

QUOTE(TheJüpreme @ May 24 2019, 11:21 PM) *
No doubt she would lower taxes on the rich.



She has reportedly said that taxes need lowering.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 24 2019, 10:27 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 11:18 PM) *
Amber Rudd hints she could work with Boris and support him.

From The Telegraph. There's more but it's behind a paywall.

"Amber Rudd hints she would work with Boris Johnson as she rules herself out of Tory leadership race

Amber Rudd has signalled she could work with Boris Johnson if he becomes Prime Minister as she formally rules herself out of the Tory leadership race.

The Work and Pensions secretary left the door open to the creation of a ‘Bamber’ joint leadership ticket in next month’s battle to succeed Theresa May.

Amid speculation she could become Mr Johnson’s Chancellor, she said "would like to lower taxes – we have to be the low tax party because people have certain expectations and they need to be able to look after their own money"

Ms Rudd also waded into the row over the UK’s new mobile 5G network, saying “we should be able to do business with China and Huawei”.

Maybe it's time to go back to what she said about Johnson in the referendum campaign. Of course, there is no such thing as a joint ticket. There is one vacancy. Any talk of a joint ticket is complete nonsense.

Posted by: TheJüpreme May 24 2019, 11:52 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 11:22 PM) *
She has reportedly said that taxes need lowering.


Aye, but no doubt that will mean lowering them for those that are already loaded, and keeping them as they are for those of us with no money.

I don't understand why people with less money vote for someone like that.

Posted by: Common Sense May 25 2019, 08:35 AM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 24 2019, 11:27 PM) *
Maybe it's time to go back to what she said about Johnson in the referendum campaign. Of course, there is no such thing as a joint ticket. There is one vacancy. Any talk of a joint ticket is complete nonsense.



Yes but she fancies herself as the first female Chancellor apparently but only if Boris categorically rules out NO DEAL but he won't.

Posted by: Rooney May 25 2019, 09:13 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 25 2019, 09:35 AM) *
Yes but she fancies herself as the first female Chancellor apparently but only if Boris categorically rules out NO DEAL but he won't.


But this is what I can't get, it's OK saying he won't rule out No Deal, but how are they going to get it through Parliment? They're not without a 2nd Referendum or a General Election.

Posted by: Iz~ May 25 2019, 12:52 PM

No Deal under Johnson I reckon will happen but by there being less of a resistance to do anything else once time runs out - the only way it can happen.

QUOTE(TheJüpreme @ May 24 2019, 11:52 PM) *
Aye, but no doubt that will mean lowering them for those that are already loaded, and keeping them as they are for those of us with no money.

I don't understand why people with less money vote for someone like that.


I believe it's important to understand why people against me hold the views they do and from what I can understand, the legit ones fall into one of two camps, they're a) considering that a policy of lower taxes will affect them positively when their tax breaks come, not liking the idea of higher taxes at all because of a general distrust of government spending, or b) beholden to a philosophy where since the rich have mostly earned their money, they should get benefits and incentives for contributing positively to the economy.

I consider this misguided, with too much trust placed in the capitalist market to distribute funds fairly, and I would prefer money for public services to be seen by an authority (the government) that doesn't have its number 1 goal profit motive, but there is a little bit of logic to it.

Posted by: Steve201 May 25 2019, 01:00 PM

Amber Rudd is desperate to be PM, she knows she can't now because of Brexit but wants to hang in there!

No Deal will never get through Parliament, there'd be a constitutional crisis if a PM tried to put t through.

Posted by: Popchartfreak May 25 2019, 01:45 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 24 2019, 11:22 PM) *
She has reportedly said that taxes need lowering.


which means cuts cuts cuts, to pensions, to dole claimers, to the NHS, to Council services. Just when you think they can't cut any more.....They promise they can.

Still, it'll get rid of shit-loads of old people, people in care and need, and mean the healthy young and fit wont have to pay for the elderly. Just like America then. Get ill, die.

Posted by: Popchartfreak May 25 2019, 02:08 PM

QUOTE(Iz~ @ May 25 2019, 01:52 PM) *
No Deal under Johnson I reckon will happen but by there being less of a resistance to do anything else once time runs out - the only way it can happen.
I believe it's important to understand why people against me hold the views they do and from what I can understand, the legit ones fall into one of two camps, they're a) considering that a policy of lower taxes will affect them positively when their tax breaks come, not liking the idea of higher taxes at all because of a general distrust of government spending, or b) beholden to a philosophy where since the rich have mostly earned their money, they should get benefits and incentives for contributing positively to the economy.

I consider this misguided, with too much trust placed in the capitalist market to distribute funds fairly, and I would prefer money for public services to be seen by an authority (the government) that doesn't have its number 1 goal profit motive, but there is a little bit of logic to it.


If Boris tried to go against Parliament and bring in No Deal, that may lead to No Confidence vote he will lose, which means a General Election, which means Tories will probably get slaughtered even with BoJo, given all the lies he's told previous about Brexit, and the way he voted against the deal he was responsible for in the first place - he said NOTHING about leaving with NO Deal in the referendum and not everyone who voted Leave may be persuaded that that is what they voted for and were promised.

Tax: Everyone hates paying it and people never think logically about it. When people see their family dying from NHS slashing, their kids getting shit education, their state benefits cut, in order to pay for it, then anyone who is a net benefitter (ie someone who pays no tax, is on poor wages, has lots of kids, has elderly relatives who aren't well-off) would have to be insane to vote for it.

When the well-off decide they want to pay less tax, but keep the taxes on the poorer parts of society, then what they are doing is increasing instability in a country where they benefit from having cushy jobs and businesses. That can also change very quickly if society becomes unfair. The more unhappy people there are, the more unstable it gets, and the more likely the cushy jobs end up not so cushy until the poor outnumber the well-off and vote for a party that will change that.

After 10 years of austerity, any party saying "that went well, everyone got pissed off royally and blamed immigrants. Let's see if we can keep blaming immigrants once we're out of Europe and opt for another decade or two of austerity" is going to be seen through fairly quickly, especially if other parties are saying "let's tax the selfish rich who have had more than enough for the last 10 years". The rich depend on the poor agreeing to the system that keeps them rich. Either pay a fair share or piss off along with all the tax-dodging corporations who have relocated abroad to tax havens, and we'll see about taxing the goods and services as they enter the country instead since the jobs have already gone and someone else might wish to set up a UK based competitor so the more expensive now-foreign goods can go whistle.



Posted by: Popchartfreak May 25 2019, 02:23 PM

To all the 2-faced liars paying lip-service tribute to T. May (failed) and her crocodile tears (aka feeling sorry for her own self-imposed sacking) this thread is a good reminder of the real sort of person she is:

https://twitter.com/MuldoonBarbara/status/1131912846433017856

Someone who has no sympathy for the misfortunes of others doesn't deserve sympathy for losing a job (with bags of cash stashed away and a whole world of opportunities open to her) just cos she was crap....

Posted by: TheJüpreme May 25 2019, 02:35 PM

Yeah, you're right Iz.

People who believe in the just world fallacy. (correlating with the religious and, ironically, selfish, considering the charitable basis of many world religions)

Posted by: Rooney May 25 2019, 05:00 PM

QUOTE(Iz~ @ May 25 2019, 01:52 PM) *
No Deal under Johnson I reckon will happen but by there being less of a resistance to do anything else once time runs out - the only way it can happen.


I can't see that though, I think there is still too much against No Deal. Will be interesting to see the stance of May's Cabinet once the majority are inevitably sacked. Guess we'll see if they change their stance slightly.

Crucially I don't think the EU want us to have No Deal either, but I think it's right that something is going to have to break the deadlock be it a GE and a potential long extension or a 2nd Referendum.

Posted by: LexC May 25 2019, 05:13 PM

I mean Bamber would be a laugh only to see both a sitting chancellor AND prime minister lose their seats in 2022 (cause no way would a Tory association in this current state select Amber Rudd for a different safe seat)

Posted by: Common Sense May 25 2019, 06:03 PM

QUOTE(LexC @ May 25 2019, 06:13 PM) *
I mean Bamber would be a laugh only to see both a sitting chancellor AND prime minister lose their seats in 2022 (cause no way would a Tory association in this current state select Amber Rudd for a different safe seat)



Speculation that May might just step down before the next election and Rudd changes to try for her seat. Maidenhead is staunch left and they'd vote for a cat if it was dressed in blue.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 25 2019, 06:35 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if May follows Blair and Cameron by resigning her seat.

Posted by: Iz~ May 26 2019, 02:37 AM

I would be. Far too much risk of a national embarrassment for the Conservatives even in the once safe seat of Maidenhead right now. And she’s a career politician, I think she’ll retreat to the backbenches and do nothing until standing down at the next GE. It’s not like Cameron or Blair where they were rising stars for so long that they’d inevitably cast a shadow from the backbench.

Posted by: Common Sense May 26 2019, 08:06 AM

I'll make an early prediction here that Esther McVey will be the first to be voted out of the contest.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 26 2019, 08:21 AM

If the number of candidates is in double figures, I can see several dropping out after the first round. That’s assuming some don’t drop out before the first votes are cast.

Posted by: Common Sense May 26 2019, 09:03 AM

Gove, Leadsome and Rabb join Boris and McVey in the contest.

Posted by: Rooney May 26 2019, 10:07 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 26 2019, 10:03 AM) *
Gove, Leadsome and Rabb join Boris and McVey in the contest.


Gosh what an odious list of shite politicians.

Posted by: Common Sense May 26 2019, 12:59 PM

I can see Boris and Gove being the last two with Boris winning. Think MP's and a lot of the membership recognise that he can win elections despite his tomfoolery so is probably more likely to beat Corbyn than Gove is. They want to win the next election and that's all that really matters to them as someone said on Sky News earlier. That's far more important even than Brexit. If they were sitting on a huge majority maybe they wouldn't need Boris but they do now.

Posted by: Rooney May 26 2019, 01:10 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 26 2019, 01:59 PM) *
I can see Boris and Gove being the last two with Boris winning. Think MP's and a lot of the membership recognise that he can win elections despite his tomfoolery so is probably more likely to beat Corbyn than Gove is. They want to win the next election and that's all that really matters to them as someone said on Sky News earlier. That's far more important even than Brexit. If they were sitting on a huge majority maybe they wouldn't need Boris but they do now.


I don't think Boris would unite the Party as much in an election as the members may think. He's got a pretty bad reputation and that's even before he enters office. Of course there's always the Trump effect. The only leader that could potentially unite the party and win a majority in an election imo is Gove. He's clearly the most capable on paper. If Boris gets to the final 2 he wins hands down, but think he'll probably get stitched up by MPs.

Posted by: Steve201 May 26 2019, 06:02 PM

I'm not sure Gove is overly appealing to the general public especially after the shit storm the tories will make of Brexit. Boris although less capable would appeal beyond the base.

Also not sure the tories at present care about a GE win given they are all fighting over Brexit!

Posted by: Iz~ May 30 2019, 08:57 AM

So in recent days Rory Stewart has been performing a pretty excellent social media campaign and tour of the UK placing himself as a somewhat eccentric but approachable character who’s willing to compromise, listen and fix. Now this is casting him as the Tory for people who don’t vote Tory, unsurprisingly, and he has very little support from MPs but I do think he’d be a pretty savvy pick. And at least one of the candidates isn’t terrible in how they are presenting themselves even if his vote record is typical Tory whip-mandated.

Meanwhile Sajid Javid is busy being the most popular man in Scotland.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner May 30 2019, 01:45 PM

Did you get #PermissionFromSajid for that post Iz?

Posted by: Common Sense May 30 2019, 06:01 PM

I think Boris's forthcoming court appearance doesn't look good for him at all and his odds are drifting slightly now with the bookies. sad.gif Gove's odds are shortening and so are Hunt's and Leadsom's although can't see she has any chance. They won't go for any woman this time. As much as I'd love Boris as PM I can see Gove or even Hunt pipping him now. Gove the more likely though.

In other Boris news, Trump has said he hopes he can fit in a meeting with him and Farage next week, either individually if time allows, or even together,his two "good friends" as he calls them. biggrin.gif No prizes for guessing as to who he'd support for next PM then. wink.gif

Posted by: Klaus May 30 2019, 06:21 PM

Considering Boris has apparently previously had meetings with Trump’s aides and those who ran his campaign, I’m not shocked in the slightest.

So funny the anti-establishment vote couldn’t be any more for the establishment

Posted by: Brett-Butler May 30 2019, 06:34 PM

QUOTE(Iz~ @ May 30 2019, 09:57 AM) *
So in recent days Rory Stewart has been performing a pretty excellent social media campaign and tour of the UK placing himself as a somewhat eccentric but approachable character who’s willing to compromise, listen and fix. Now this is casting him as the Tory for people who don’t vote Tory, unsurprisingly, and he has very little support from MPs but I do think he’d be a pretty savvy pick. And at least one of the candidates isn’t terrible in how they are presenting themselves even if his vote record is typical Tory whip-mandated.


Brett-Butler has looked into his marvellous crystal ball (and it is a marvellous ball indeed, it's glittery and all), and can predict that on Question Time tonight, Rory will say something that will get him "cancelled" faster than you can say "Milkshake Duck".

Posted by: Steve201 May 30 2019, 06:40 PM

Haha was gonna say that - he's on QT tonight which has become a terrible watch since the referendum!

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 30 2019, 06:40 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ May 30 2019, 07:34 PM) *
Brett-Butler has looked into his marvellous crystal ball (and it is a marvellous ball indeed, it's glittery and all), and can predict that on Question Time tonight, Rory will say something that will get him "cancelled" faster than you can say "Milkshake Duck".

With Barry Gardiner on for Labour, it looks like one of those rare occasions when the Tory isn't the dimmest member of the panel. Interesting that Jo Swinson is also on, so that's two people with their minds on a leadership election.

Posted by: Common Sense May 30 2019, 06:44 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 30 2019, 07:40 PM) *
With Barry Gardiner on for Labour, it looks like one of those rare occasions when the Tory isn't the dimmest member of the panel. Interesting that Jo Swinson is also on, so that's two people with their minds on a leadership election.



Should be an interesting watch. Think I'll stay up. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Steve201 May 30 2019, 06:50 PM

Is Lyla Moran not fav for the Liberals? She seems very intelligent. Lovely too.

I like Gardiner for some reason!


Posted by: Suedehead2 May 30 2019, 06:51 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ May 30 2019, 07:50 PM) *
Is Lyla Moran not fav for the Liberals? She seems very intelligent. Lovely too.

I like Gardiner for some reason!

Layla Moran has said she won't be standing.

Posted by: Steve201 May 30 2019, 07:19 PM

Disappointing.

Posted by: Rooney May 30 2019, 07:44 PM

QUOTE(Iz~ @ May 30 2019, 09:57 AM) *
So in recent days Rory Stewart has been performing a pretty excellent social media campaign and tour of the UK placing himself as a somewhat eccentric but approachable character who’s willing to compromise, listen and fix. Now this is casting him as the Tory for people who don’t vote Tory, unsurprisingly, and he has very little support from MPs but I do think he’d be a pretty savvy pick. And at least one of the candidates isn’t terrible in how they are presenting themselves even if his vote record is typical Tory whip-mandated.

Meanwhile Sajid Javid is busy being the most popular man in Scotland.


Whoever his team are, they are doing a really good job imo. Before a week ago people had barely heard of him compared to a lot of the Leadership candidates. His issue will of course be he supports a soft Brexit which is MPs are not keen on. But he's doing a good job at de-Toryising himself, can't see him being elected but he's doing a better job than I thought he would.

Think Boris is finished now. Serves him right. I'm surprised Gove gets away with it though...

Posted by: Klaus May 30 2019, 07:50 PM

I saw the video with him speaking about why a No Deal Brexit will be disastrous and why WTO is not something to aim for. Whilst a no deal is clearly bad, his argument is one of the most articulate and strongly put and helped provide some form of sanity to this whole thing.

Of course you do then have the video of him pretending to be holding the camera and I think his voting history isn’t too impressive, but then which Tory’s is?

Posted by: Botchia May 30 2019, 08:13 PM

Rory is definitely the least problematic of the candidates...but can we just have a general election lmao

Posted by: Rooney May 30 2019, 08:19 PM

QUOTE(Botchia @ May 30 2019, 09:13 PM) *
Rory is definitely the least problematic of the candidates...but can we just have a general election lmao


It's interesting with his voting record though. He's clearly a eurosceptic, but maybe like Boris he's realised that sometimes you can do against your idelogies to get to the greater good. I am OK with a softer Brexit as I thought this would be the sensible decision rather than some wacko-WTO shizzle. Of course right now our democracy seems to be it's either all or nothing in terms of the electorate, so going for the middle option doesn't seem to be appealing.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 30 2019, 08:20 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ May 30 2019, 08:19 PM) *
Disappointing.

She's still young, so she may well stand in a future election.

Going back to the Tory contest, if Johnson doesn't make it, I can see him stepping down at the next election. That would be a pity as it would be far more entertaining to see him lose his seat.

Posted by: Common Sense May 30 2019, 09:03 PM

Do we all agree that if Boris doesn't make it this time then this is his last shot at becoming leader/PM?

Posted by: Common Sense May 30 2019, 09:04 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 30 2019, 09:20 PM) *
She's still young, so she may well stand in a future election.

Going back to the Tory contest, if Johnson doesn't make it, I can see him stepping down at the next election. That would be a pity as it would be far more entertaining to see him lose his seat.



ohmy.gif What will he do for an income though? You can't just leave a job unless you have another. tongue.gif

Posted by: Brett-Butler May 30 2019, 09:07 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 30 2019, 10:04 PM) *
ohmy.gif What will he do for an income though? You can't just leave a job unless you have another. tongue.gif


He makes considerable money from his books and Daily Telegraph column, if my last inquisitive look at the Register of Interests serves me correctly.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 30 2019, 09:08 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 30 2019, 10:04 PM) *
ohmy.gif What will he do for an income though? You can't just leave a job unless you have another. tongue.gif

He gets more from his job with the Telegraph than he gets as an MP. I think he'll muddle along somehow.

Posted by: Brett-Butler May 30 2019, 09:11 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ May 30 2019, 10:07 PM) *
He makes considerable money from his books and Daily Telegraph column, if my last inquisitive look at the Register of Interests serves me correctly.


It somewhat did - in the last two weeks alone, he earned £30k - £25,000 from giving a 2 1/2 speech to a private bank, and the rest are book royalties.

Posted by: Klaus May 30 2019, 09:11 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ May 30 2019, 10:04 PM) *
ohmy.gif What will he do for an income though? You can't just leave a job unless you have another. tongue.gif

He earns £275,000 a year for a weekly column in The Telegraph, a lot of money from talks and I’m sure he has investments etc and someone will easily snap him up for some top job. I don’t think he has anything to worry about. Most MPs have fingers in other pies, Boris has a lot of pies.

Posted by: Steve201 May 30 2019, 09:12 PM

People thought that about Churchill in 1929!

Posted by: Common Sense May 30 2019, 09:14 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ May 30 2019, 10:11 PM) *
He earns £275,000 a year for a weekly column in The Telegraph, a lot of money from talks and I’m sure he has investments etc and someone will easily snap him up for some top job. I don’t think he has anything to worry about. Most MPs have fingers in other pies, Boris has a lot of pies.



Well he is selling one house so cash in the bank for that but also has a divorce settlement to come.

Posted by: Suedehead2 May 30 2019, 09:26 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ May 30 2019, 10:11 PM) *
He earns £275,000 a year for a weekly column in The Telegraph, a lot of money from talks and I’m sure he has investments etc and someone will easily snap him up for some top job. I don’t think he has anything to worry about. Most MPs have fingers in other pies, Boris has a lot of pies.

I think you mean "He is paid £275,000..."

Posted by: Rooney May 30 2019, 09:43 PM

Lol people don't become MPs for the salary, it is about the prestige, power and opportunities that come with it. I'm sure Johnson has some money tied up in gold somewhere that will become a lot more profitable if the UK leave the EU with No Deal, same as the majority of the ERG.

Posted by: Common Sense May 30 2019, 10:05 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ May 30 2019, 10:43 PM) *
Lol people don't become MPs for the salary, it is about the prestige, power and opportunities that come with it. I'm sure Johnson has some money tied up in gold somewhere that will become a lot more profitable if the UK leave the EU with No Deal, same as the majority of the ERG.



I will ask him next time I see him shopping in Oxford Street and report back to you.

Posted by: Popchartfreak May 31 2019, 01:28 PM

Mark Harper is apparently the new underdog. A former Chief Whip. The last time I saw an underdog with a whip it was during Fetish Week in the Canaries.

Posted by: Common Sense May 31 2019, 04:06 PM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ May 31 2019, 02:28 PM) *
Mark Harper is apparently the new underdog. A former Chief Whip. The last time I saw an underdog with a whip it was during Fetish Week in the Canaries.



rotf.gif

Posted by: Baytree May 31 2019, 04:22 PM

Just wondering when he'll tell us Scots that He won't ALLOW another indyref.

Maybe he needs #permissionfromSajid first.


Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 1 2019, 11:25 AM

There's still a lot of activity surrounding Rory Stewart. Before people get too excited, perhaps it's worth reminding them of the last two major party leaders to have started as an underdog with little chance of winning - Cameron and Corbyn.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 1 2019, 03:06 PM

QUOTE(Baytree @ May 31 2019, 05:22 PM) *
Just wondering when he'll tell us Scots that He won't ALLOW another indyref.

Maybe he needs #permissionfromSajid first.

Quite.

Thankfully that hashtag is a masterpiece in Scottish humour. Daft git has just given the union more rope with which to hang itself.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 2 2019, 09:09 AM

Okay No. of Tory MP's pledged so far now exceeds 100:

Hunt - 30

Boris - 29

Gove -27

Raab - 22

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 2 2019, 07:03 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 2 2019, 10:09 AM) *
Okay No. of Tory MP's pledged so far now exceeds 100:

Hunt - 30

Boris - 29

Gove -27

Raab - 22


are you sure it's not the number of Tory leadership candidates? I think it must be up to 100 by now.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 3 2019, 12:14 AM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jun 2 2019, 08:03 PM) *
are you sure it's not the number of Tory leadership candidates? I think it must be up to 100 by now.


LOL. No. 13 I think still.

Posted by: Baytree Jun 3 2019, 12:49 PM

QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jun 1 2019, 04:06 PM) *
Quite.

Thankfully that hashtag is a masterpiece in Scottish humour. Daft git has just given the union more rope with which to hang itself.


Our esteemed Foreign Secretary, Mr Hunt, payed out more rope by using Canary Wharf and Culloden for alliteration.

He couldn't even pronounce the latter's name far less understand how that name and the aftermath of what happened there have resonated down through the centuries throughout Scotland and its diaspora.

There are many places in Scotland beginning with C. Only an idiot with no understanding of Scotland/Scots would choose Culloden's name as indicative of a UNITED Kingdom.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 4 2019, 03:17 PM

NEW RULES TO BE INTRODUCED TO ELECT NEXT LEADER.

1922 Committee put the following proposals to the party's Board which they're expected to approve later this week.

To be nominated by one MP, one seconder and 6 other MP'S.

8% of votes needed to progress to next round and then 10% to reach 3rd round.


Senior party members are said to be having "quiet words in ears" to get some candidates to withdraw to bring the number down to 6 or 7 going to MP's vote.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 4 2019, 03:38 PM

It doesn't take a genius to guess what sort of headlines tomorrow's papers would carry if Labour changed the rules part way through a leadership contest. Yes, I know it hasn't formally started yet, but it is effectively under way.

Posted by: Iz~ Jun 4 2019, 03:43 PM

Well given every junior minister with vague designs on power was starting to throw their name in, any more and the divided Tory house becomes too obviously apparent.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 4 2019, 04:10 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 4 2019, 04:38 PM) *
It doesn't take a genius to guess what sort of headlines tomorrow's papers would carry if Labour changed the rules part way through a leadership contest. Yes, I know it hasn't formally started yet, but it is effectively under way.



Those headlines will be kind of overshadowed though tomorrow! May get a small mention on about page 10 in some papers.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 4 2019, 04:21 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 4 2019, 05:10 PM) *
Those headlines will be kind of overshadowed though tomorrow! May get a small mention on about page 10 in some papers.

Well done on missing the point as ever.

Posted by: mald487 Jun 4 2019, 04:28 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 4 2019, 04:10 PM) *
Those headlines will be kind of overshadowed though tomorrow! May get a small mention on about page 10 in some papers.


You completely missed the point.

Posted by: TheSnake Jun 4 2019, 04:50 PM

QUOTE
LOL. No. 13 I think still.


Interesting that there finally is one candidate who is a current remainer, Sam Gyimah, in the list, but I don't think he has much of a chance in the leadership contest.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jun 4 2019, 05:01 PM

QUOTE(TheSnake @ Jun 4 2019, 05:50 PM) *
Interesting that there finally is one candidate who is a current remainer, Sam Gyimah, in the list, but I don't think he has much of a chance in the leadership contest.


Given the winner is decided by the Tory party membership, whose average age is 70 and unanimously voted FOR Brexit and would support no deal I'd say you could be right there, his percentage chance of winning starts with a Z.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 5 2019, 07:42 AM

It will be interesting to see how much support Gyimah gets. If his vote is derisory then he could see that as a sign that he has no future in the party. His supporters could reach the same conclusion. OTOH, if he gets a decent vote that could encourage Remainers in the party to step up the fight.

Posted by: Harve Jun 5 2019, 09:51 AM

Could we please just skip to September. I can't be bothered with any of this. It hasn't even been good for memes.

Posted by: Iz~ Jun 5 2019, 11:47 AM

There’s an underlying expectation that the premiership will be short and disastrous which does make me pretty unengaged. They’re all Tories obviously and Leadsom hasn’t even had the decency to do an ‘as a mother’ scandal yet.

Cleverly and Walthouse dropping out is so uneventful no one has even mentioned it in this thread.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 5 2019, 11:55 AM

Has Alan B'Stard thrown his hat in the ring yet? Or am I confusing fiction with reality.....

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 5 2019, 03:42 PM

So we'll see next Tuesday what the votes are like and whether Boris has, as I hope, a good lead amongst MP's and who's dropped out.

Boris now 11/10 to become next PM.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 5 2019, 04:12 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 5 2019, 04:42 PM) *
So we'll see next Tuesday what the votes are like and whether Boris has, as I hope, a good lead amongst MP's and who's dropped out.

Boris now 11/10 to become next PM.

Why indulge the arrogant narcissist by using his second forename?

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 5 2019, 05:09 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 5 2019, 05:12 PM) *
Why indulge the arrogant narcissist by using his second forename?




Everybody knows him as Boris!

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 5 2019, 05:48 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 5 2019, 06:09 PM) *
Everybody knows him as Boris!

No they don't. I always call him Johnson, Boris Johnson or. occasionally, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.

Posted by: mald487 Jun 5 2019, 07:34 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 5 2019, 05:09 PM) *
Everybody knows him as Boris!


Good old Boris and Donald eh? laugh.gif laugh.gif

How do you feel about their pending talks to privatise the NHS?

Still waiting on a response.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jun 5 2019, 08:00 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 5 2019, 06:48 PM) *
No they don't. I always call him Johnson, Boris Johnson or. occasionally, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.


I call him Johnson too, because he really is a JOHNSON.

Posted by: mald487 Jun 5 2019, 09:04 PM

I prefer bumbling Tw#t

Posted by: Botchia Jun 5 2019, 09:15 PM

QUOTE(Harve @ Jun 5 2019, 10:51 AM) *
Could we please just skip to September. I can't be bothered with any of this. It hasn't even been good for memes.


Rory the social media icon says hi

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 7 2019, 02:55 PM

In what may be a first, May has stuck to her word and has officially resigned as Tory leader.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 7 2019, 03:04 PM

Excellent news from BBC News.


The High Court has thrown out an attempt to prosecute Boris Johnson over claims he lied during the 2016 referendum campaign by saying the UK gave the EU £350m a week.

The Tory leadership candidate challenged a summons for him to attend court on three claims of misconduct in public office.

His lawyers said he denied acting improperly or dishonestly.

Campaigner Marcus Ball launched the private prosecution.

This happened after he crowdfunded more than £300,000 for the case.

Mr Johnson, a former Foreign Secretary, was handed a summons to attend Westminster Magistrates' Court on 29 May.


Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 7 2019, 03:16 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 7 2019, 04:04 PM) *
Excellent news from BBC News.
The High Court has thrown out an attempt to prosecute Boris Johnson over claims he lied during the 2016 referendum campaign by saying the UK gave the EU £350m a week.

The Tory leadership candidate challenged a summons for him to attend court on three claims of misconduct in public office.

His lawyers said he denied acting improperly or dishonestly.

Campaigner Marcus Ball launched the private prosecution.

This happened after he crowdfunded more than £300,000 for the case.

Mr Johnson, a former Foreign Secretary, was handed a summons to attend Westminster Magistrates' Court on 29 May.

Why is it excellent news? The court has ruled that politicians can tell blatant lies with impunity. How does that improve democracy?

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 7 2019, 05:42 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 7 2019, 04:16 PM) *
Why is it excellent news? The court has ruled that politicians can tell blatant lies with impunity. How does that improve democracy?




Well it was going to cast a shadow over the leadership contest and cause some to think that maybe one candidate was dishonest and a liar. He must be hugely relieved tonight.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 7 2019, 05:49 PM

He is dishonest you weapon

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 7 2019, 06:01 PM

QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jun 7 2019, 06:49 PM) *
He is dishonest you weapon



That's libellous as it has never been proved in a court of law.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 7 2019, 06:03 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 7 2019, 07:01 PM) *
That's libellous as it has never been proved in a court of law.

He’s been sacked from two jobs and two marriages for his dishonesty. He is a serial liar.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 7 2019, 06:04 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 7 2019, 06:42 PM) *
Well it was going to cast a shadow over the leadership contest and cause some to think that maybe one candidate was dishonest and a liar. He must be hugely relieved tonight.

So the interests of one B Johnson are more important than democracy? I disagree.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 7 2019, 06:07 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 7 2019, 07:01 PM) *
That's libellous as it has never been proved in a court of law.

He has been prove to be dishonest time and time and time again. Don’t need to take someone to court to prove they’re a liar.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jun 7 2019, 06:50 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 7 2019, 07:01 PM) *
That's libellous as it has never been proved in a court of law.


You are literally beyond hope. Christ almighty.

Posted by: mald487 Jun 7 2019, 10:04 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 7 2019, 06:01 PM) *
That's libellous as it has never been proved in a court of law.


I'm not going to engage anymore. It's like a broken record.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 8 2019, 11:34 AM

Just being practical - if every politician who lied in a campaign was prosecuted every government on the planet would grind to a halt. That said Johnson is a serial liar and anyone who chooses to believe anything serial liars tell them deserves the personal embarrassment they will get when everyone screams I told you so!

Posted by: Iz~ Jun 9 2019, 05:28 AM

What is it with half the field suddenly admitting to taking drugs years ago? Even ‘as a mother’ has joined in with a weed habit.

Like yes, Gove took cocaine when he was a young journalist... never saw that coming. Someone has dirt, and at least it’s rather funny, and obviously they’re going to support lifting prohibition now, aren’t they.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 9 2019, 12:30 PM

Gove cannot win. He's blabbering about scrapping VAT and replacing it with a "simple sales tax" and OMG what a useless c**t. He wades in on things he's absolutely nae clue about.

VAT is a simple tax ffs. If a business is fully taxable, they don't pay VAT. The end consumer pays the full weight of VAT because it's a consumption tax. A pure sales tax is in operation in the US (and basically no where else) and the US has more than 8,000 tax jurisdictions. Simple my arse. I work in VAT Compliance Technology and every single bit of tech we have built is for VAT/GST systems. Not one of them (or our primary competitors) touches the "simple" sales tax system of the US because it's mind-bogglingly complex, far more so than VAT.



VAT isn't perfect, but there's a damn good reason that countries looking to implement a consumption tax are selecting a VAT/GST and not a "Simple Sales Tax" (See the UAE, India and Saudi Arabia. The rest of the GCC has plans to bring in VAT). I'm open to reforming VAT if we leave the EU, and think it should be reformed even if we stay. We need to zero rate essential items like tampons and take another look at how 8th directive claims work and replacing Intrastat and the ECSL/PL system with something more akin to the Control Statements in CZ/SK or the SAF-T in PL. Scrapping it though? Absolutely not.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 9 2019, 01:18 PM

The Quitters are, of course, describing VAT as an EU-imposed tax. I'm sure Gove's announcement is aimed at these people.

In a sense, it is an EU tax. However, when we joined the Common Market, VAT replaced the old Purchase Tax. Gove is simply exploiting the fact that most people have no idea how the tax system works.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 9 2019, 01:19 PM

Of course, Gove's announcement might also have more than a little to do with distracting attention from his cocaine-fuelled past. It is interesting to note that anyone with a conviction for possession of cocaine is barred from being a teacher. No prizes for guessing who introduced that regulation.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 9 2019, 04:03 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 9 2019, 02:18 PM) *
The Quitters are, of course, describing VAT as an EU-imposed tax. I'm sure Gove's announcement is aimed at these people.

In a sense, it is an EU tax. However, when we joined the Common Market, VAT replaced the old Purchase Tax. Gove is simply exploiting the fact that most people have no idea how the tax system works.

Indeed, it is very much an EU tax as it underpins the principles of the Common Market and introduces some necessary requirements (Reverse Charge) that actually prevents a race to the bottom on tax rates and ensure that there is no distortion of tax collection.

Up/Downside is that every single change has to agreed to unanimously. Good when it means we get to cling onto our Zero Rate. (VAT is actually charged but just at a rate of 0% as opposed to something being exempt or outside of the scope of VAT like University Tuition Fees and a Parking Fine respectively) Bad when it means that we can't make a reform that we would like to such as adding sanitary products to the Zero Rating list.


I am biased, as it's literally my life, but the EU VAT Directive is really an excellent bit of supra-national legislation.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 9 2019, 04:04 PM

According to Sky News Gove's campaign is in trouble after his cocaine admission and more MP's including contender James Cleverley are said to be backing Boris. Seems like this is Boris's to lose now.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 9 2019, 04:11 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 9 2019, 05:04 PM) *
According to Sky News Gove's campaign is in trouble after his cocaine admission and more MP's including contender James Cleverley are said to be backing Boris. Seems like this is Boris's to lose now.


Boris also has the most friends in the media and the most contacts. It's always going to draw this picture. Imo the interesting part will be who the likes of Raab, Leadsome, Javid etc. throw their weight behind if don't muster enough votes.

Just goes to show what types of people are voting for the country when an admission of someone taking Cocaine once means they won't vote for them as Party Leader.

Personally I think the Tories are in a lose-lose situation. Clear they are losing a lot of their swing voters to the Brexit Party at the moment. But the Tory Party associating themselves woth the Brexit Party is just not going to happen, at least if it did I think it's probably the end of the Conversatives as we know today.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 9 2019, 04:16 PM

Javid has the endorsement, currently, from Davidson.

He'd be daft to count on that beyond the end of her sentence though, she pulls so many u-turns she ends up spinning faster than a washing machine.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 9 2019, 04:17 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 9 2019, 05:04 PM) *
According to Sky News Gove's campaign is in trouble after his cocaine admission and more MP's including contender James Cleverley are said to be backing Boris. Seems like this is Boris's to lose now.

Notso Cleverley is not a contender. He has withdrawn.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 9 2019, 04:20 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 9 2019, 05:17 PM) *
Notso Cleverley is not a contender. He has withdrawn.



Who would you like to see as leader and new PM then Suedy?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 9 2019, 04:34 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 9 2019, 05:20 PM) *
Who would you like to see as leader and new PM then Suedy?

Nobody from the rogues gallery of liars, incompetents, charlatans, narcissists, cokeheads, expenses cheats and amnesiacs (capable of forgetting buying seven flats) on offer.

Posted by: blacksquare Jun 9 2019, 04:35 PM



No thanks

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 9 2019, 04:52 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Jun 9 2019, 05:11 PM) *
Just goes to show what types of people are voting for the country when an admission of someone taking Cocaine once means they won't vote for them as Party Leader.



Several times actually. He admitted it on Marr this morning.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 9 2019, 06:07 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 9 2019, 05:52 PM) *
Several times actually. He admitted it on Marr this morning.


Might as well send him to rehab then. Classic case of being an addict right there.

McVey admitted she'd ask The Queen to make sure No Deal goes through. I mean to even suggest such a thing is horrendous. The Queen would rightly tell her to do one.


Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 9 2019, 06:44 PM

Yes, suspending Parliament for purely political motives would be anti-democratic and effectively one person taking power for their own ends (regardless of whether they claim it's what people voted for - there was no mention of leaving without a deal in the referendum and none of the campaigners said that is what they were aiming for at the time). For The Queen to even hypothetically get involved in anything that destroys the sovereignty of Parliament would be the first step towards the end of the Monarchy as soon as a Labour government got power. The Queen knows this. Her position is based on keeping Parliament democratic, not based on keeping some jumped-up lying power-mad Tory tosspot who's too scared to put it back the citizens (either by a referendum or a General Election) from having to do just that.

The Queen has to be above politics, that's her role, and she won't take kindly towards any git that tried to drag her into politics, even if she secretly agrees with their intended aim. Neither would voters take kindly to it either, except for the blind Brexit Farage Fan Club.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 9 2019, 07:12 PM

I agree with what a DS poster says, that Boris is likeable, popular and basically quite harmless whereas we've no idea what other skeletons Gove has in his closet.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 9 2019, 07:27 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 9 2019, 08:12 PM) *
I agree with what a DS poster says, that Boris is likeable, popular and basically quite harmless whereas we've no idea what other skeletons Gove has in his closet.


I heard he once stole some loose onions from Sainsburys. It's a surprise he's allowed on the streets.

Posted by: Kath Jun 9 2019, 07:50 PM

Gove can't possibly win as he looks like Mr Bean's younger, less intelligent brother!

Boris is a serial liar and cheat - he'll go far!

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 9 2019, 08:11 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 9 2019, 08:12 PM) *
I agree with what a DS poster says, that Boris is likeable, popular and basically quite harmless whereas we've no idea what other skeletons Gove has in his closet.

Quite harmless?!?!? You’re an actual disgrace

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 9 2019, 08:13 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 9 2019, 08:12 PM) *
I agree with what a DS poster says, that Boris is likeable, popular and basically quite harmless whereas we've no idea what other skeletons Gove has in his closet.

He's nowhere near as popular as he used to be - or as popular as he thinks he is. A comfortable majority of people think he will be a bad PM. On this occasion - as long as "bad" also covers "catastrophically dreadful" - I agree with the majority. As for harmless, I assume you mean that in the same way that Putin is harmless.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 9 2019, 09:24 PM

DELETED

Posted by: Rooney Jun 9 2019, 09:40 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 9 2019, 09:13 PM) *
He's nowhere near as popular as he used to be - or as popular as he thinks he is. A comfortable majority of people think he will be a bad PM. On this occasion - as long as "bad" also covers "catastrophically dreadful" - I agree with the majority. As for harmless, I assume you mean that in the same way that Putin is harmless.


Yeah agreed there. I'm sure he'll pick up many votes for 'bantz' but he's nowhere near as popular as he once was a few years ago. He's certainly not this populist leader a lot of the members think he could be.

Posted by: Iz~ Jun 10 2019, 05:01 AM

Johnson could potentially win one election against Corbyn but it would not be a large victory and will probably put him in charge of a minority government that would be forced to call another or rely on whoever he can scrape together for confidence and supply, even more unsteady than May has been.

Only Stewart and possibly Gove show any hope of reaching across the aisle and getting votes outside of typical Tories back. But with the likely choice of Johnson, the Tories are going to implode.

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jun 9 2019, 06:44 PM) *
Yes, suspending Parliament for purely political motives would be anti-democratic and effectively one person taking power for their own ends (regardless of whether they claim it's what people voted for - there was no mention of leaving without a deal in the referendum and none of the campaigners said that is what they were aiming for at the time). For The Queen to even hypothetically get involved in anything that destroys the sovereignty of Parliament would be the first step towards the end of the Monarchy as soon as a Labour government got power. The Queen knows this. Her position is based on keeping Parliament democratic, not based on keeping some jumped-up lying power-mad Tory tosspot who's too scared to put it back the citizens (either by a referendum or a General Election) from having to do just that.

The Queen has to be above politics, that's her role, and she won't take kindly towards any git that tried to drag her into politics, even if she secretly agrees with their intended aim. Neither would voters take kindly to it either, except for the blind Brexit Farage Fan Club.


McVey, and before her, Raab, bandying this idea about is one of the most worrying things I've seen. Parliament is sovereign, we are representative, not direct, and we elected MPs to not destroy the country. If they think this course of action would be bad for the country, and it absolutely will be, then there should be no getting it through. Proroguing even coming into the debate is disgraceful.

Thankfully Bercow has nixed it from what I've seen but it's alarming that these people are even in contention for our top job.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 10 2019, 06:45 AM

The most worrying part of the argument about proroguing parliament is that I'm not sure how much the Speaker can do to prevent it. Normally there is a short gap between the PM asking for a prorogation and the event itself. That could be used for o vote of confidence. However, I suspect that is convention rather than a hard-and-fast rule That leaves the monarch as the only person who can stop it, thereby dragging the monarch into politics.

This whole mess helps to demonstrate the problems that can be caused when a country doesn't have a written constitution.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 10 2019, 06:49 AM

So, according to an ITV snap phone poll done by GMB, 86% of viewers think Gove's not fit to be PM due to his drug use 20 years ago.That's a lot. Hopefully his candidacy will be over soon and he withdraws as some MP's say he should.

Esther McVey had just admitted to trying cannabis. Seems everyone has taken that....except me. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 10 2019, 08:03 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 10 2019, 07:49 AM) *
So, according to an ITV snap phone poll done by GMB, 86% of viewers think Gove's not fit to be PM due to his drug use 20 years ago.That's a lot. Hopefully his candidacy will be over soon and he withdraws as some MP's say he should.

Esther McVey had just admitted to trying cannabis. Seems everyone has taken that....except me. biggrin.gif


As long as cheating on your wives is also seen as a bannable offence. And wasting 50m of taxpayer cash on a bridge that never happened. And getting a British citizen jailed because you're an idiot who knows nothing about his job. And giving your mates tax-free building permissions in London while everyone else has to pay. And promising the well-off tax breaks using cash set aside to ease damage to everyone for policies you are supporting.

He's not doing a thing for poor people you realise?

I've also never done drugs. But I think Gove should be banned for being a former journalist rather than something he did in his younger days, no different from being a reformed alcoholic. In fact I'd ban any MP writing columns and abusing their position by getting paid spreading propaganda, but that's me....

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 10 2019, 09:13 AM

PS this writer and former Madam just tweeted this interesting accusation:



Natalie Rowe
@RealNatalieRowe
·
16h
HOLD ON A SEC
@BorisJohnson
there is NO WAY that your ‘ encounter ‘ with Cocaine was in your University days, you were snorting the stuff up like Nobodies business at the Party in Knightsbridge where you racially abused me and that was early 90’s you absolute LIAR
280
5.8K
11.9K


So, either Boris Johnson takes her to court for libel or it's true. Presumably there were lots of other witnesses, so should be easy to sort out quickly. If he takes her to court, with witnesses to swear he never did it was never at that "party", he didn't do it. If he doesn't....it's true. Watch this space.

So, presumably everyone calling for Gove to resign will now switch to Boris to resign too? The only difference I see is that someone tries to sabotage Gove so he came out ahead of the accusations, and Boris didn't cos he'd rather deny and laugh it off with his jolly old buffoon persona, if they are true. Personally I dont see any difference when you did the cocaine, Uni days or journalist days, all the same to me. You don't suddenly become a moral beacon at 40 after not being one at 21 or 22. The word I'm thinking of starts with H and ends with "ite".

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 10 2019, 10:52 AM

Doesn't really surprise me they've all tried drugs with the circles they hang about in. Not something I do myself(I don't even drink) but I wouldn't pass judgement although it's not great they damage the drug trafficking does for people.

Raabs leadership campaign started there on BBC - prob the most charasmatic ive ever seen him, not that that says much though.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 10 2019, 01:22 PM

Gove’s use of cocaine stems from his late 20s / early 30s, so it’s not really a youthful indiscretion. One of the incidents was in December 1999, less than 20 years ago. Therefore, his claim that it was all over 20 years ago is a lie.

How do you think this all plays with anyone who was sent to jail for possessing a small amount of cocaine? They will have had their life chances seriously damaged. Gove, OTOH, might get to be PM or hold a senior ministerial post.

Still, nice to see one Tory say that people should be allowed a private life before entering politics. I look forward to the first person charged with cocaine using “I deserve a private life” as their defence.

Posted by: mald487 Jun 10 2019, 02:52 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 9 2019, 07:12 PM) *
I agree with what a DS poster says, that Boris is likeable, popular and basically quite harmless whereas we've no idea what other skeletons Gove has in his closet.


I feel so sorry for you if this a genuine post.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 10 2019, 03:20 PM

QUOTE(mald487 @ Jun 10 2019, 03:52 PM) *
I feel so sorry for you if this a genuine post.




Well the way some people on other forums are talking, the UK is doomed and life won't be worth living if Boris becomes the PM in July. What nonsense. If he gets in let's give the guy a chance. smile.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 10 2019, 03:52 PM

Johnson was given a chance as Foreign Secretary. He proved to be an unmitigated disaster, partly because of his unwillingness to bother reading his briefs. That makes me pretty certain that he would be a catastrophically bad PM. If I'm wrong and he only proves to be diabolical, I will admit my mistake.

Posted by: Bré Jun 10 2019, 04:24 PM

QUOTE(Iz~ @ Jun 10 2019, 06:01 AM) *
Johnson could potentially win one election against Corbyn but it would not be a large victory and will probably put him in charge of a minority government that would be forced to call another or rely on whoever he can scrape together for confidence and supply, even more unsteady than May has been.

Only Stewart and possibly Gove show any hope of reaching across the aisle and getting votes outside of typical Tories back. But with the likely choice of Johnson, the Tories are going to implode.


Not sure about this tbh, I have a bad feeling that Boris could attract back a lot of the voters who are currently defecting from the Tories for the Brexit Party in the opinion polls and potentially do very well in a general election due to having most of the Leave voters while the Remainers are more split.

Posted by: Kath Jun 10 2019, 04:25 PM

QUOTE(mald487 @ Jun 10 2019, 03:52 PM) *
I feel so sorry for you if this a genuine post.

It isn't - he's a troll! Don't feed him!

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 10 2019, 04:54 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 5 2019, 08:42 AM) *
It will be interesting to see how much support Gyimah gets. If his vote is derisory then he could see that as a sign that he has no future in the party. His supporters could reach the same conclusion. OTOH, if he gets a decent vote that could encourage Remainers in the party to step up the fight.

Gyimah's support has proved to be so minimal that he has withdrawn from the contest. He really ought to be asking himself what that says about today's Conservative party.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 10 2019, 06:04 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 10 2019, 02:22 PM) *
Gove’s use of cocaine stems from his late 20s / early 30s, so it’s not really a youthful indiscretion. One of the incidents was in December 1999, less than 20 years ago. Therefore, his claim that it was all over 20 years ago is a lie.

How do you think this all plays with anyone who was sent to jail for possessing a small amount of cocaine? They will have had their life chances seriously damaged. Gove, OTOH, might get to be PM or hold a senior ministerial post.

Still, nice to see one Tory say that people should be allowed a private life before entering politics. I look forward to the first person charged with cocaine using “I deserve a private life” as their defence.

This all really reinforces the view that certain drugs are effectively legal as long as you’re white or white and wealthy.

The same really as Cynitha Nixon pointed out in her NY Governor campaign - Weed is basically legal for white people. When you examine the crime stats for the state of NY you see huge variations in the rates that whites are charged with drug possession in comparison to people of colour.

It would be nice if out of this came either some prosecutions for drugs offences for half the Tory party or, and more preferably, we actually have a proper grown up conversation as a country about drug offences and de-criminalisation of possession (as well as properly classifying addiction as a medical condition and the home office allowing clean rooms)

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jun 10 2019, 07:11 PM

QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jun 10 2019, 07:04 PM) *
This all really reinforces the view that certain drugs are effectively legal as long as you’re white or white and wealthy.

The same really has Cynitha Nixon pointed out in her NY Governor campaign - Weed is basically legal for white people. When you examine the crime stats for the state of NY you see huge variations in the rates that whites are charged with drug possession in comparison to people of colour.

It would be nice if out of this came either some prosecutions for drugs offences for half the Tory party or, and more preferably, we actually have a proper grown up conversation as a country about drug offences and de-criminalisation of possession (as well as properly classifying addiction as a medical condition and the home office allowing clean rooms)


Hear hear.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 11 2019, 06:16 AM

Always good to have a "thought for the day":



James O'Brien
@mrjamesob
If only these leadership contenders had been able to do something to stop Brexit becoming the mess they describe. If only they’d had votes at various stages of the process or been in the Cabinet or been Foreign Secretary or Secretary of State for Brexit. I really feel for them.

Posted by: ScottyEm Jun 11 2019, 07:02 PM

I’m somewhat alarmed that Johnson (I refuse to refer to him by first name), is a runaway favourite. I’m still not convinced. My only conclusion that he gets the backing is because he basically won’t do his job, will spend most of his time swanning about doing PR and any other self-serving narcissistic activities. Meanwhile, the leg work will be done without him by all other MPs will continue to play tug of war thus carving a road to a second ref.

On a side note, is Johnson really a Brexiter?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 11 2019, 07:21 PM

QUOTE(ScottyEm @ Jun 11 2019, 08:02 PM) *
I’m somewhat alarmed that Johnson (I refuse to refer to him by first name), is a runaway favourite. I’m still not convinced. My only conclusion that he gets the backing is because he basically won’t do his job, will spend most of his time swanning about doing PR and any other self-serving narcissistic activities. Meanwhile, the leg work will be done without him by all other MPs will continue to play tug of war thus carving a road to a second ref.

On a side note, is Johnson really a Brexiter?

He's a Quitter for as long as it helps him get to be PM. If he gets the job his focus will switch to keeping it. If that means abandoning this whole nonsense and revoking Article 50, that's what he will do.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Jun 11 2019, 07:38 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 11 2019, 08:21 PM) *
He's a Quitter for as long as it helps him get to be PM. If he gets the job his focus will switch to keeping it. If that means abandoning this whole nonsense and revoking Article 50, that's what he will do.


There was also the business of him apparently writing two different articles about his decision on the EU Referendum - one where he sets out his intention to campaign for Leave, and one for Remain, and in the end he plumped for Leave. I think his "Remain" article did leak out a few years back.

There was an article today about his lack of moral and political compass, and quite surprisingly it was in https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-everything-about-you-is-phoney/, particularly when you remember who its editor was from 1999-2005.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 11 2019, 07:53 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jun 11 2019, 08:38 PM) *
There was also the business of him apparently writing two different articles about his decision on the EU Referendum - one where he sets out his intention to campaign for Leave, and one for Remain, and in the end he plumped for Leave. I think his "Remain" article did leak out a few years back.

There was an article today about his lack of moral and political compass, and quite surprisingly it was in https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-everything-about-you-is-phoney/, particularly when you remember who its editor was from 1999-2005.

I used to know Neil Sherlock (the man mentioned in the article for beating Johnson at Oxford) very well. He and his father were in Woking Lib Dems in my time there.

Posted by: Mack. Jun 11 2019, 08:26 PM

Just not Gove please for leadership.

Posted by: vidcapper Jun 12 2019, 05:01 AM

QUOTE(Mack. @ Jun 11 2019, 09:26 PM) *
Just not Gove please for leadership.


You'd prefer even Boris?? tongue.gif

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 12 2019, 12:03 PM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 12 2019, 06:01 AM) *
You'd prefer even Boris?? tongue.gif


I think a carrot with a spray cheese-cream hairdo could do a better job than Johnson.

Notice how he's avoiding all questions today, ESPECIALLY those related to how he is going to achieve a deal by October when the EU has disbanded the teams following the elections and he won't be in post till ooh at least 8 weeks before Halloween after theyve all been on their summer hols in france. Nor how he proposes to convince the same MP's not to be against No Deal that May was. Nor how trying to get a deal once youve left and are desperate for any crumbs is better than being a member and having power of disruption. Nor what about all those 90's coke revelations. Lies? Hasn't denied them.

Carrot.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 12 2019, 03:47 PM

A Comres poll asked how people would vote if Boris was PM and Corbyn still led Labour. Interesting. An overall majority of 140 for Boris. ohmy.gif

Con: 37%
Lab: 22%
Lib Dems: 20%
Brexit: 14%



Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 12 2019, 05:05 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 12 2019, 04:47 PM) *
A Comres poll asked how people would vote if Boris was PM and Corbyn still led Labour. Interesting. An overall majority of 140 for Boris. ohmy.gif

Con: 37%
Lab: 22%
Lib Dems: 20%
Brexit: 14%

That is so out of kilter with other polls that it has to be taken with a whole mine of salt.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 12 2019, 05:12 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 12 2019, 06:05 PM) *
That is so out of kilter with other polls that it has to be taken with a whole mine of salt.



He's obviously their best chance of winning the next election and they know that.

Someone was wondering on DS today if they may all withdraw to give it to Boris without a membership vote like in 2016 if he has a large first vote from MP's. I'd wondered that too.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 12 2019, 05:28 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 12 2019, 06:12 PM) *
He's obviously their best chance of winning the next election and they know that.

Someone was wondering on DS today if they may all withdraw to give it to Boris without a membership vote like in 2016 if he has a large first vote from MP's. I'd wondered that too.

They'll live to regret it. Trouble is, the rest of us will suffer far more.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 12 2019, 09:25 PM

Result of first round of MP's voting expected about 1pm tomorrow.

Posted by: ScottyEm Jun 12 2019, 10:36 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jun 11 2019, 08:38 PM) *
There was also the business of him apparently writing two different articles about his decision on the EU Referendum - one where he sets out his intention to campaign for Leave, and one for Remain, and in the end he plumped for Leave. I think his "Remain" article did leak out a few years back.

There was an article today about his lack of moral and political compass, and quite surprisingly it was in https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-everything-about-you-is-phoney/, particularly when you remember who its editor was from 1999-2005.


I’ve seen this before. My theory is that Brexit is pass the parcel, but with a ticking clock. May avoided the explosion. I agree Johnson is all mouth. People are worried he will push his no deal through but there is a whole host of hurdles to get over for that to happen, not to mention over eventualities we haven’t necessarily thought of at this stage.

I think Johnson is very weak, politically.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 13 2019, 10:40 AM

Further evidence of the calibre of leadership candidates...

Ester McVey defended her aim to cut spending on overseas aid by claiming that money was mis-spent. When asked for an example she cited an airport where the runway was built in the wrong direction, facing the wind. She was asked where this airport was and replied "It's in... one of the continents,,, abroad".

Alan Duncan (a Tory MP) believes she is referring to an airport in St Helena. This is a UK Overseas Territory and, therefore, our responsibility. The spending does not count as overseas aid. As for the direction of the runway, there is nothing wrong with it. It is built, as with all runways, to avoid cross-winds most of the time.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 13 2019, 10:41 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 12 2019, 10:25 PM) *
Result of first round of MP's voting expected about 1pm tomorrow.

Voting closes at mid-day. Only the Tories could take a whole hour to count 300 votes.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 13 2019, 11:29 AM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 13 2019, 11:40 AM) *
Further evidence of the calibre of leadership candidates...

Ester McVey defended her aim to cut spending on overseas aid by claiming that money was mis-spent. When asked for an example she cited an airport where the runway was built in the wrong direction, facing the wind. She was asked where this airport was and replied "It's in... one of the continents,,, abroad".

Alan Duncan (a Tory MP) believes she is referring to an airport in St Helena. This is a UK Overseas Territory and, therefore, our responsibility. The spending does not count as overseas aid. As for the direction of the runway, there is nothing wrong with it. It is built, as with all runways, to avoid cross-winds most of the time.


So McVey literally a Blowhard full of wind. It's a very windy mountain top, and planes struggle to land commercially. It's a UK project. So a UK cock-up then. Quel suprise! laugh.gif

She's another carrot. Most of the candidates are morons or radicals making half-remembered-stuff up when they havent got a prompt in front of them and a script to stick to.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 13 2019, 11:35 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 12 2019, 06:12 PM) *
He's obviously their best chance of winning the next election and they know that.

Someone was wondering on DS today if they may all withdraw to give it to Boris without a membership vote like in 2016 if he has a large first vote from MP's. I'd wondered that too.


Yes, Boris is nothing to be sniffed at. Funny how Gove is answering questions and Johnson isn't about being a bit sniffy in the past. That could get right up one's nose. Double-standards in the Tory Party? Heaven forbid!

Posted by: danG Jun 13 2019, 12:11 PM

Results are in:

QUOTE
Michael Gove: 37

Matt Hancock: 20

Mark Harper: 10

Jeremy Hunt: 43

Sajid Javid: 23

Boris Johnson: 114

Andrea Leadsom: 11

Esther McVey: 9

Dominic Raab: 27

Rory Stewart: 19


Boris Johnson's massive lead mellow.gif He's almost certainly our next PM then isn't he?

McVey, Harper and Leadsom have been kicked out of the race.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Jun 13 2019, 12:15 PM

I’m pretty sure that unless he loses supporters in subsequent ballots, then that would be enough to comfortably see Boris into the run-off. But Tory supporters could surprise us if they prefer the other candidate, who’s either going to be Gove or Hunt.

Posted by: Bré Jun 13 2019, 12:22 PM

PM Boris it is. Darkest timeline.

Posted by: Iz~ Jun 13 2019, 12:24 PM

Stewart surviving until the next ballot is a small victory. He’ll want to be returning in a few years to lead them out of desolaction.

It looks good for Boris but I think Hunt in the final round could run him close.

Posted by: Klaus Jun 13 2019, 12:25 PM

Whilst both useless and horrible people, Theresa has clearly paved the way for another female Prime Minister.....

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 13 2019, 01:18 PM

Embarrassing for Loathsome to go from the final two last time to just eleven votes this time.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 13 2019, 01:47 PM

Go Boris. Our next PM. cheer.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 13 2019, 01:54 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 13 2019, 02:47 PM) *
Go Boris. Our next PM. cheer.gif

As his parliamentary supporters have been so quiet on the matter, perhaps you could help. What were Johnson's main achievements as Foreign Secretary?

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 13 2019, 02:38 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 13 2019, 02:54 PM) *
As his parliamentary supporters have been so quiet on the matter, perhaps you could help. What were Johnson's main achievements as Foreign Secretary?



Let's just let the past be and look to the future shall we?

Posted by: mald487 Jun 13 2019, 03:46 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 13 2019, 01:47 PM) *
Go Boris. Our next PM. cheer.gif


Do you need some tissues?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 13 2019, 04:10 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 13 2019, 03:38 PM) *
Let's just let the past be and look to the future shall we?

No. Most people who had been Foreign Secretary would expect to be able to boast of some achievements in the role when aiming to be PM. The fact that Johnson and his supporters have said nothing about it tells us a lot. I assume you also think everything Jeremy Corbyn has said and done in the past should also be disregarded.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 13 2019, 05:00 PM

It is being reported that mobile phones were banned from the voting room. The reason given is that it is alleged that MPs promising their support yo Johnson were asked by his team to take a photograph of their ballot paper to prove they had voted for him. This report comes from the political editor of Sky News, so it can't be dismissed as just mischief-making.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 13 2019, 05:13 PM

QUOTE(mald487 @ Jun 13 2019, 04:46 PM) *
Do you need some tissues?



No thanks. Am smiling not crying. smile.gif


Just ordered my Boris t-shirt and 2 mugs. Selling out fast.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 13 2019, 05:15 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 13 2019, 05:10 PM) *
No. Most people who had been Foreign Secretary would expect to be able to boast of some achievements in the role when aiming to be PM. The fact that Johnson and his supporters have said nothing about it tells us a lot. I assume you also think everything Jeremy Corbyn has said and done in the past should also be disregarded.



No of course not. Corbyn's a disgrace for meeting Hamas and the IRA yet not attending State Banquet for Mr. Trump. Hope Boris trounces him in the next election.

Posted by: T Boy Jun 13 2019, 05:24 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 13 2019, 06:15 PM) *
No of course not. Corbyn's a disgrace for meeting Hamas and the IRA yet not attending State Banquet for Mr. Trump. Hope Boris trounces him in the next election.


We’ve had almost 10 years of Tory prime ministers, to want another one you must be trolling again.

Posted by: Klaus Jun 13 2019, 05:30 PM

So interesting that the buffoon act has suddenly disappeared for a Mr Johnson... for now

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 13 2019, 05:33 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 13 2019, 06:15 PM) *
No of course not. Corbyn's a disgrace for meeting Hamas and the IRA yet not attending State Banquet for Mr. Trump. Hope Boris trounces him in the next election.

So why do you think Johnson's abysmal record as Foreign Secretary is irrelevant?

I hope you won't be moaning when Johnson slashes benefits.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 13 2019, 05:36 PM

One of the best jokes of the campaign comes from Hugo Rifkind, son of former Tory Foreign Secretary (at a time when that position went to politicians of substance) Malcolm Rifkind...

QUOTE
The fact that the world contains nine whole people who think Esther McVey should be Prime Minister is obviously shocking enough, but the coincidence of them all already being Tory MPs is little short of remarkable.

Posted by: Envoirment Jun 13 2019, 05:38 PM

Hopefully Tory members will surprise and Johnson will lose in the run-off.

Posted by: Bré Jun 13 2019, 05:57 PM

The only chance Boris had of not winning this was if MPs were able to rally enough around 2 other candidates to prevent Boris reaching the top 2, he'll surely trounce any of the alternatives with a vote among the Tory membership. As it is, Boris already has enough votes to mathematically prevent that from happening, unless he somehow loses votes in the later rounds.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 13 2019, 06:58 PM

Not going to happen sadly. Most Tories at this stage would vote for Satan if they thought it would save their own necks from electoral extinction. That he's a useless, selfish, lying, self-serving, buffoon with a massive ego and complete lack of moral backbone is irrelevant to them.

Birds of a feather.....

The ones that describe him as the aforementioned are in the minority, and getting more minority as time passes and extreme memberships choose extreme candidates determined to drag us all down so the rich can have their wicked way with us, egged on by people who don't understand what is going on and those that do and want it anyway.



Posted by: Steve201 Jun 13 2019, 07:38 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 13 2019, 06:15 PM) *
No of course not. Corbyn's a disgrace for meeting Hamas and the IRA yet not attending State Banquet for Mr. Trump. Hope Boris trounces him in the next election.


Yes he is a disgrace for meeting members of SF and trying to bring them into a peace process while the British government only met them in secret. If JC and others didn't talk to them we wouldn't be enjoying peace in NI for the past 25 years. But hey ho the right wingers were clearly right in the long term!!

Our boys good their lads bad!


Posted by: Common Sense Jun 13 2019, 08:54 PM

Rumours that Whitehall civil servants are desperately trying to dig up something really big tonight to sink Boris as him becoming PM really scares the Establishment. Hope he doesn't drive through any tunnels in the near future.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 13 2019, 08:56 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 13 2019, 09:54 PM) *
Rumours that Whitehall civil servants are desperately trying to dig up something really big tonight to sink Boris as him becoming PM really scares the Establishment. Hope he doesn't drive through any tunnels in the near future.

I don't think they'd need to look very hard. Perhaps you could explain how someone who went to Eton, edited the Spectator and writes for the Telegraph counts as not being part of the establishment.

Posted by: Klaus Jun 13 2019, 08:58 PM

Damn those tax breaks for those earning over £55,000 are terrifying the establishment!!!

Posted by: Harve Jun 13 2019, 09:15 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 13 2019, 09:54 PM) *
Rumours that Whitehall civil servants are desperately trying to dig up something really big tonight to sink Boris as him becoming PM really scares the Establishment. Hope he doesn't drive through any tunnels in the near future.

There are https://bylinetimes.com/2019/06/12/the-boris-johnson-show-part-1-a-role-on-which-the-curtain-never-falls/ of https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XzAujyzN9JxpUl9rN7EIIX0AlgaXL8rE/view?usp=sharing that are 'really big' already out in the open but nobody cares because Tory MPs and members, as well as the right wing in general, have no integrity.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 13 2019, 09:28 PM

If Labour had a competent leader the Tories would be getting beaten to a pulp in the next General Election. I think Boris is such a divise character he's going to have a lot, he was quite well liked when he was Mayor of London but his credibility has massively downturned since then. I still say Gove is the only one who would be able to survive a General Election and navigate Brexit.

Posted by: mald487 Jun 14 2019, 07:28 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 13 2019, 05:13 PM) *
No thanks. Am smiling not crying. smile.gif
Just ordered my Boris t-shirt and 2 mugs. Selling out fast.


Well that one went totally over your head laugh.gif

Posted by: Wall Jun 14 2019, 08:13 AM

roll on Scottish independence

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 14 2019, 08:49 AM

QUOTE(mald487 @ Jun 14 2019, 08:28 AM) *
Well that one went totally over your head laugh.gif



No it didn't actually. wink.gif

Posted by: ElectroBoy Jun 14 2019, 01:55 PM

Down to 6 now with Hancock withdrawing from the competition.

The next round then has about 50 votes up for grabs (the total of people who voted for the 4 that've gone) and any people deciding to swap allegiances.




Posted by: Common Sense Jun 14 2019, 07:24 PM

They should all withdraw now and let PM Boris start his new job.

Posted by: Harve Jun 14 2019, 08:24 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 14 2019, 08:24 PM) *
They should all withdraw now and let PM Boris start his new job.

Are you sure this is wise for your own cause? Look at what happened in spring 2017 with May and her hilariously disastrous election campaign, after having been parachuted in by her party a year previously without a real campaign to put her under the spotlight.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 14 2019, 08:54 PM

QUOTE(Harve @ Jun 14 2019, 09:24 PM) *
Are you sure this is wise for your own cause? Look at what happened in spring 2017 with May and her hilariously disastrous election campaign, after having been parachuted in by her party a year previously without a real campaign to put her under the spotlight.

I was going to make exactly the same point. A proper campaign should mean Johnson gets subjected to at least some scrutiny, however much he may try to wriggle out of as many encounters as he can.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 14 2019, 11:16 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 14 2019, 08:24 PM) *
They should all withdraw now and let PM Boris start his new job.


Chris I know you want Brexit, but his only policy stated so far is a tax cut for 40% tax payers. Honestly baffles me why someone like yourself would want this.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 15 2019, 08:01 AM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Jun 15 2019, 12:16 AM) *
Chris I know you want Brexit, but his only policy stated so far is a tax cut for 40% tax payers. Honestly baffles me why someone like yourself would want this.


which as The Last Leg pointed out - puts MP's into the tax-cut bracket. A bit like a bribe to vote for him then. I mean why 80k, why not with inflation and just say 55k? Hard to see it as anything else but a bribe.

More baffled why people who slag off Gove for doing coke snorting and think he should leave the race...but not Johnson for doing the same thing. It's almost like people will vote for anything if they have one single blinkered aim in mind, supporting corruption and lies even if it leaves them worse off. Which it will.

I have very intelligent friends who do the same, and try and defend the indefensible when I state facts, getting angry at me for stating facts, and refusing to listen because the slightest acknowledgement that people they wildly support aren't perfect in every way is an admission of weakness in their overall arguments. So they ignore reality rather than face up to it. A bit like Johnson, then.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 16 2019, 07:21 PM

Thought from what I've seen Stewart was by far the best in the debate. Hunt and Gove way too staged with their answers - obviously got some great PR support. Couldn't make this up could you, he's probably the only one out of the candidates that could unite the middle voters while appealing to the core members. And of course with this fact he'll get kicked out of the race tomorrow.

They all made a bit of a fool out of Raab.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 16 2019, 07:26 PM

Raab doesn't normally need any help in looking a fool.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 16 2019, 07:37 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 16 2019, 08:26 PM) *
Raab doesn't normally need any help in looking a fool.


Interestingly they all said No Deal would be really shit for the country (although dressed up in different ways). Massive surprise to no-one there.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 16 2019, 08:46 PM

Rory Stewart clearly knows he hasn't got any hope of winning. I suspect he is putting his marker down for when this far-right project goes pear-shaped. He will be able to point to his warnings and claim to have been right. Part of his strategy appears to be to make sure he is out of the Cabinet when the new PM takes over, thereby distancing himself even more from the shambles that is to come.

Posted by: Harve Jun 17 2019, 12:56 AM

Two of explicitly mentioned putting a time limit on the backstop and all but Stewart made references to renegotiating with the EU. I'm not sure if any showed that they've been thinking about what was compatible with the EU as I couldn't bear to watch all the way through, but they haven't learnt anything over the last three years, have they? The Tory party is too insular and blinkered to be in government.


Posted by: Common Sense Jun 17 2019, 04:18 PM

Rory Stewart now second favourite with the bookies after last night's debate but will probably out tomorrow lunchtime. I'd say him or Rabb next to go.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 17 2019, 06:17 PM

Leadership contests tend to attract very little money at the bookies. Therefore, it takes relatively few bets to influence the odds. That's partly how Cameron suddenly became the favourite after starting as an outsider in 2005.

Posted by: vidcapper Jun 18 2019, 04:56 AM

Does everyone hear think that Boris will be our version of Trump?

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 18 2019, 07:04 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 18 2019, 05:56 AM) *
Does everyone hear think that Boris will be our version of Trump?


He already is in many ways. Rich. Wife-cheater. habitual liar. useless at his jobs. supports the rich does nothing for the poor. Fools people into thinking he's on their side when he isn't. Lies all the time. Can't be let loose with journalists cos he'll just cock it up when someone asks a question he can't answer. Only cares about himself. Wants power and money. Unscrupulous. Lies.

Only difference is he's not aggressive, mentally unstable, deliberately hateful, nor anywhere near as dumb, so yay for Johnson.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 18 2019, 07:17 AM

Front page of a rag trying to undermine Rory Stewart:

He may have worked for MI5!

In other words, risking your life spying for your country makes you a danger, while getting British citizens bunged in prison abroad and habitually lying and causing the national crisis that no-one has any idea how to sort out makes you suitable to run the country.

What a world, what a world...[melts into a heap].

Posted by: Iz~ Jun 18 2019, 07:19 AM

He’s certainly in the same archetype of politician, a bullish populist that is always playing a zero-sum game to get ahead of everyone else no matter the cost to the country. Just look at how he takes credit for his mayoral tenure, very style over substance with policies from the previous mayor taken credit for, making it all about him. He’s a brand, an egotistical brand and he’s very much what a British version of Trump would look like.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 18 2019, 07:43 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 18 2019, 05:56 AM) *
Does everyone hear think that Boris will be our version of Trump?




If you mean a great leader, then yes I certainly do. He'll bring as breath of fresh air and humor and personality in to No.10 as Donald's done to the White House.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 18 2019, 08:08 AM

In a shocking new poll of Tory members who all get a vote for the next PM, a majority want Brexit delivered even if it causes a Scottish independence, Irish reunification, severe damage to the economy and the Tories being destroyed.

Only at the risk of Corbyn becoming PM, would they be willing to lose Brexit.


YouGuv poll June 11-14

Posted by: *Tim Jun 18 2019, 08:22 AM

Y'all have truly lost it as a country lmaooo
I hope the Scottish get their independence, you're welcome back Scots x

Posted by: Harve Jun 18 2019, 09:58 AM

QUOTE(*Tim @ Jun 18 2019, 09:22 AM) *
I hope the Scottish get their independence, you're welcome back Scots x

Please save us, we have done nothing wrong.

Think Raab will be lent votes from Johnson supporters to keep him in over the others, as well as other BJ supporters giving their votes to Hunt as he's the easiest candidate to beat. He has enough support for there to be dirty tricks like that.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 18 2019, 11:05 AM

By hook or by crook we will be a full blooded EU member state one day soon. Keep the UK's empty seat warm for us x

Posted by: Iz~ Jun 18 2019, 01:20 PM

And whatever's left of England and Wales, one day, eventually. This will never be a permanent decision, the demographics alone should tell you that.

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 18 2019, 08:08 AM) *
In a shocking new poll of Tory members who all get a vote for the next PM, a majority want Brexit delivered even if it causes a Scottish independence, Irish reunification, severe damage to the economy and the Tories being destroyed.

Only at the risk of Corbyn becoming PM, would they be willing to lose Brexit.
YouGuv poll June 11-14


This hilariously divorced from reality leaflet was sent to party members:

https://i.imgur.com/VlENLQV.jpg

The debate opened with it too. The most important thing on the minds of the Tory party is not the impending crisis that they themselves caused, it's that they must cover up their inability to offer anything concrete by pointing at a bogeyman who in a time of non-Brexit would quite plausibly have been the prime minister this country desperately needed. Corbyn is just like Brexit but on a different axis (and not doing so well currently though I bet on a campaign trail he'd redeem himself), he's a rallying cry to half of society and the devil to the other half.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 18 2019, 05:22 PM

Johnson 126
Hunt 46
Gove 41
Stewart 37
Javid 33

Raab Out

Next vote tomorrow and then Thursday then last MP's vote next Tuesday if required.

Debate 8pm tonight BBC1. Will Boris turn up. News is he's going to be there!!! ohmy.gif

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 18 2019, 05:26 PM

Can Stewart overtake Hunt and Gove to go up against Boris in the last two membership run-off? Getting a bit exciting now.

Hunt not doing as well as some thought.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Jun 18 2019, 07:02 PM

Is Rory Stewart really, really tall, or are the rest just very small? I have a feeling that there'll be complaints that the BBC have purposely chosen chairs that are too big for the guys sitting on them to make Rory look more "statesmanlike".

Posted by: Klaus Jun 18 2019, 07:04 PM

I've been spending all day wondering why Rory Stewart potentially being a spy is a bad thing and have come up with nothing

really confused

Posted by: Bré Jun 18 2019, 07:06 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ Jun 18 2019, 08:04 PM) *
I've been spending all day wondering why Rory Stewart potentially being a spy is a bad thing and have come up with nothing

really confused


He's sort of sane by Tory standards so everything he does is unacceptable. Obvz.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 18 2019, 07:17 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 18 2019, 08:43 AM) *
If you mean a great leader, then yes I certainly do. He'll bring as breath of fresh air and humor and personality in to No.10 as Donald's done to the White House.

When did trustworthiness get deleted from the list of attributes required of a great leader?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 18 2019, 07:23 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 18 2019, 09:08 AM) *
In a shocking new poll of Tory members who all get a vote for the next PM, a majority want Brexit delivered even if it causes a Scottish independence, Irish reunification, severe damage to the economy and the Tories being destroyed.

Only at the risk of Corbyn becoming PM, would they be willing to lose Brexit.
YouGuv poll June 11-14

Can you imagine the headlines of there was a Labour government and a poll that showed members to be in favour of a policy even if it meant the break-up of the country and severe damage to the economy? The calls for them to be charged with treason would be deafening. This promotion of ideology over the national interest sums up today's Tory party very well.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 18 2019, 07:29 PM

Never heard so much shite spewed in my life. None of these guys have a clue how to deliver Brexit

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 18 2019, 07:47 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Jun 18 2019, 08:29 PM) *
Never heard so much shite spewed in my life. None of these guys have a clue how to deliver Brexit


Thanks, that saves me having to torturously plough through it when I'd rather twiddle my thumbs staring at rusty door hinges for 6 weeks than put myself through it, knowing my head would explode in despair at some point laugh.gif

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 18 2019, 07:49 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 18 2019, 08:17 PM) *
When did trustworthiness get deleted from the list of attributes required of a great leader?



Well this is not maybe what you want to hear but he wants us to trust him that we'll leave the EU on 31st October whatever happens. That's music to my ears.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 18 2019, 07:52 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Jun 18 2019, 08:29 PM) *
Never heard so much shite spewed in my life. None of these guys have a clue how to deliver Brexit



I don't think it can be delivered so we need to just come out with no deal, as Boris said.

Posted by: T Boy Jun 18 2019, 07:54 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 18 2019, 08:52 PM) *
I don't think it can be delivered so we need to just come out with no deal, as Boris said.


Or just not leave at all, like all the rational people are saying.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 18 2019, 07:55 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 18 2019, 08:52 PM) *
I don't think it can be delivered so we need to just come out with no deal, as Boris said.


So the Tories are the party of tax cuts and business prosperity. A No Deal Brexit kills our economy. There is a reason none of the 5 candidates have said we must have No Deal, because they all know how shite it will be. Leaving with No Deal doesn't solve the problem that we need a Deal at some point. We have zero negotiating tactic, so we're always going to get a shite deal.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 18 2019, 07:58 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 18 2019, 08:49 PM) *
Well this is not maybe what you want to hear but he wants us to trust him that we'll leave the EU on 31st October whatever happens. That's music to my ears.

And how does his past record encourage anyone to believe the liar?

BTW, we're still waiting to hear why leaving is such a good idea. Given that, according to a lot of Tory members, the benefits are so fantastic that it is worth seeing the break=up of the country and severe economic damage, I'm surprised they are so reluctant to tell us what those benefits are.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 18 2019, 07:59 PM

best quote of the night "we're a great country, we can get through it" RE No Deal.

rotf.gif absolute melt

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 18 2019, 08:03 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Jun 18 2019, 08:55 PM) *
So the Tories are the party of tax cuts and business prosperity. A No Deal Brexit kills our economy. There is a reason none of the 5 candidates have said we must have No Deal, because they all know how shite it will be. Leaving with No Deal doesn't solve the problem that we need a Deal at some point. We have zero negotiating tactic, so we're always going to get a shite deal.

I don't suppose they've been asked how they would pay for those tax cuts? Any other party is expected to explain how they would pay for every minor promise in their manifesto, Tories, by contrast, are never asked how they would pay for their promised tax cuts.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 18 2019, 08:06 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Jun 18 2019, 08:59 PM) *
best quote of the night "we're a great country, we can get through it" RE No Deal.

rotf.gif absolute melt

They keep repeating that idiotic line, but they are never challenged on it. They are never asked how the "great deal" and "sunlit uplands" have become "We can get through it".

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 18 2019, 09:15 PM

QUOTE(T Boy @ Jun 18 2019, 08:54 PM) *
Or just not leave at all, like all the rational people are saying.



Except that would be a kick in the teeth to all those like myself who vote LEAVE.

Posted by: T Boy Jun 18 2019, 09:20 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 18 2019, 10:15 PM) *
Except that would be a kick in the teeth to all those like myself who vote LEAVE.


And?

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 18 2019, 09:38 PM

Democracy my dear Watson...

Posted by: T Boy Jun 18 2019, 09:47 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 18 2019, 10:38 PM) *
Democracy my dear Watson...


The democratic thing to do would be to allow another vote now that we have actual facts to deal with.

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 18 2019, 09:49 PM

These arguement go round in circles and have done for three years now. We are leaving and that's that. People voted to remain or leave and they did just that. Now let's just do what the people asked.

Posted by: T Boy Jun 18 2019, 09:57 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 18 2019, 10:49 PM) *
These arguement go round in circles and have done for three years now. We are leaving and that's that. People voted to remain or leave and they did just that. Now let's just do what the people asked.


But what the ‘people’ ‘asked’ for seems to be unrealistic, otherwise we’d have left already. It seems the ‘people’ can’t have their cake and eat it.

If it came down to no deal or no leave, what would you choose?

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 18 2019, 09:59 PM

I would chose a no deal or a general election.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 18 2019, 10:01 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 18 2019, 10:49 PM) *
These arguement go round in circles and have done for three years now. We are leaving and that's that. People voted to remain or leave and they did just that. Now let's just do what the people asked.

We had an advisory referendum. One side cheated.

If you thought leaving was a stupid idea three years ago, what has happened to make you think it is a good idea now?

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 18 2019, 10:06 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 18 2019, 11:01 PM) *
We had an advisory referendum. One side cheated.

If you thought leaving was a stupid idea three years ago, what has happened to make you think it is a good idea now?


Because I am a democrat and believe that things could get a lot worse if democracy doesn't prevail.

Advisory or not and whether you believe one side cheated these arguement s aren't relevant to the current debate.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 18 2019, 10:13 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 18 2019, 11:06 PM) *
Because I am a democrat and believe that things could get a lot worse if democracy doesn't prevail.

Advisory or not and whether you believe one side cheated these arguement s aren't relevant to the current debate.

It's not just me who believes one side cheated, They have been fined for doing so.

You still haven't explained how something becomes a good idea simply because people voted for it (in an advisory, fraudulent referendum). How do you thjink people will react when they find that all those things that were blamed on the EU had nothing to do with the EU after all?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 18 2019, 10:15 PM

The BBC have done some fact-checking on some of the claims made in tonight's debate. They have selected one inaccurate statement per candidate. Some of them are blatant untruths (making the candidate either a liar or incompetent) while others are not quite as serious.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48685344

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 18 2019, 10:46 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 18 2019, 11:13 PM) *
It's not just me who believes one side cheated, They have been fined for doing so.

You still haven't explained how something becomes a good idea simply because people voted for it (in an advisory, fraudulent referendum). How do you thjink people will react when they find that all those things that were blamed on the EU had nothing to do with the EU after all?


It's not really for me to explain how it becomes a good idea because people voted for it but they did and that should be respected imho. That doesn't mean it'll be easy and it'll be difficult at first but it doesn't mean it shouldnt happen because certain groups disagree. The UK is t a technocracy where people are put in place to push through policies against what the people voted for. In fact in the past that has only happened within the Eu in italy and Ireland.

Michael Gove really was awful in tonight's debate - must have mentioned Jeremy Corbyn in every answer.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 18 2019, 11:15 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 18 2019, 11:46 PM) *
It's not really for me to explain how it becomes a good idea because people voted for it but they did and that should be respected imho. That doesn't mean it'll be easy and it'll be difficult at first but it doesn't mean it shouldnt happen because certain groups disagree. The UK is t a technocracy where people are put in place to push through policies against what the people voted for. In fact in the past that has only happened within the Eu in italy and Ireland.

Michael Gove really was awful in tonight's debate - must have mentioned Jeremy Corbyn in every answer.

So if there had been an advisory referendum 30 years ago on whether homosexual acts should be a criminal offence, you would have supported a government that acted on the result? Governments are supposed to act in the interests of the country, whether that is popular or not.

Posted by: mald487 Jun 19 2019, 01:04 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 18 2019, 09:15 PM) *
Except that would be a kick in the teeth to all those like myself who vote LEAVE.


Yep smile.gif

Although a lot of people who voted leave are already dead , or not contributing anything to society in the way of work or taxes, but still taking advantage of.the benefits that their EU membership has given them by having a foreign spouse wink.gif

Posted by: Iz~ Jun 19 2019, 01:04 AM

If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy... and the further away we get from the vote without there being a solution by which to implement it, the more correct that becomes. If you are to pick one democratic decision as the hill to die on, why not anything else. The interests of the country must always be kept in mind. Sometimes I wish we were a technocracy, because this then wouldn't happen.

The candidates for Prime Minister are all (bar Stewart) apparently under the delusion that they can go back and renegotiate with the EU, when the EU have said that that's impossible. No Deal was certainly not what was voted for, so going for that is less democratic than stopping Brexit altogether. As much as I don't want it to be, because of how problematic referendums are, the only democratic way forward is another one.

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 18 2019, 10:15 PM) *
The BBC have done some fact-checking on some of the claims made in tonight's debate. They have selected one inaccurate statement per candidate. Some of them are blatant untruths (making the candidate either a liar or incompetent) while others are not quite as serious.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48685344


Love that.
Boris: We can invoke Article 24 and it will be fine.
BBC: Not applicable to this situation because we won't have a trade agreement even agreed upon in place.

Hunt: A quarter of children are unable to read!
BBC: Just because they don't pass our test doesn't mean they're illiterate.

Stewart: The target of 2050 for zero-carbon is the most ambitious for top countries!
BBC: Well ACKTUALLY, depending on your definition of top countries, some countries have set their targets before that.

The environment is in reality the most important issue there is but I can't imagine that does anything other than make Stewart look the best of them. Relative of course disclaimer.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 19 2019, 06:58 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 18 2019, 10:15 PM) *
Except that would be a kick in the teeth to all those like myself who vote LEAVE.


Based on lies told by Boris Johnson, the man you still trust despite his ongoing lies. I mean talk about naive! Chris, when the economy tanks, people on benefits and low wages are going to suffer worse than anyone. Just like they have over the last 10 years, only worse. I don't understand how you can place your trust in liars like that - note NONE of them talked about immigration because they know that any future deals will have immigration written into the deals for EVERY COUNTRY WITH ANY POLITICAL POWER OVER US. And we'll be desperate forced to take shit deals, not like now, part of a strong bloc with negotiating power over less strong countries and equal to the USA and China.

So, the cornerstone of Brexit, not even mentioned cos they are desperate not to kill themselves off having promised The Earth and delivered NOTHING. The ones who lied the most are the ones who wont vote for the deal that has been agreed. That's Johnson. He's a liar, don't believe a word he says, he won't deliver a Hard Brexit in October cos he's a liar and he can't deliver it. He just wants to be Prime Minister. Always has.


Posted by: Common Sense Jun 19 2019, 07:04 AM

So who will leave the race today then? I'd guess at Javid and then tomorrow is anyone's guess.


Oh there are two votes tomorrow, 12pm and 5pm so we'll know the final two by tomorrow evening.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 19 2019, 07:07 AM

we had a referendum in 1975, why do we need another one? The people spoke.

"yes but no but some are dead and circumstances have changed, it wasnt what the dead people voted for, trust me I know, yes but no but"

OK, let's have another referendum.





we had a referendum in 2016, why do we need another one? The people spoke.

"yes but no but some are dead and circumstances have changed, it wasnt what the dead people voted for, yes but no but"

OK, let's have another referendum.


No difference.


It's called democracy, the right to change your mind, just like Johnson and Farage have, over and over again when it suits them.


Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jun 19 2019, 08:46 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 18 2019, 10:38 PM) *
Democracy my dear Watson...


"If a democracy cannot change its mind, then it ceases to be a democracy"

- David Davis (former Brexit Secretary), 2012

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 19 2019, 03:04 PM

There was uproar amongst Tory MP's in the Commons earlier when the SNP's Ian Blackford called Boris a "racist" during PMQ's. Bercow just told him to weigh his words

Posted by: T Boy Jun 19 2019, 03:44 PM

I love it when people are all ‘but democracy!!!!1!2!!2’ when they can’t think of a proper reason to leave.

Say it’s my birthday next week and I invite four friends out for a meal. We have the choice of restaurant A and restaurant B. We have a democratic vote and 3 of us pick restaurant A over 2 for B so we decide we’ll go to restaurant A.

Closer to the date, we discover that’s restaurant A has been serving actual dog shit as meals. Now aware of the facts and not wanting to eat dog shit, are we now not allowed to change our minds and go to the good restaurant? Do we have to eat dog shit because we voted for it first and we must respect that vote? Or does democracy allow us to change our minds?

Basically, the UK is going to be having dog shit for dinner for some time.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 19 2019, 04:08 PM

Just one leaves tonight. There's no minimum threshold to satisfy from what Sky News are saying, so just the one with the lowest vote to leave. Then another out around 1pm tomorrow and the last about 6pm. So we'll know the final two going to the country early tomorrow evening. If the other one dropped out, as some of the party hierarchy would like, as Leadsom did in 2016, Boris could be PM by Friday morning. Some would like to see him get on with the job straight away rather than waiting 5 weeks for it to go to the full membership. Others think they need a say as they haven't had one since Cameron was elected in 2015.


Can't see past Javid leaving today.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 19 2019, 05:06 PM

Stewart gone.

Posted by: coi Jun 19 2019, 05:14 PM

Boris Johnson - 143
Jeremy Hunt - 54
Michael Gove - 51
Sajid Javid - 38

Rory Stewart - 27

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 19 2019, 05:16 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 04:04 PM) *
There was uproar amongst Tory MP's in the Commons earlier when the SNP's Ian Blackford called Boris a "racist" during PMQ's. Bercow just told him to weigh his words

No, Bercow asked him to withdraw and instead, like the hero he is, he doubled down and provided receipts.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 19 2019, 05:21 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 05:08 PM) *
Just one leaves tonight. There's no minimum threshold to satisfy from what Sky News are saying, so just the one with the lowest vote to leave. Then another out around 1pm tomorrow and the last about 6pm. So we'll know the final two going to the country early tomorrow evening. If the other one dropped out, as some of the party hierarchy would like, as Leadsom did in 2016, Boris could be PM by Friday morning. Some would like to see him get on with the job straight away rather than waiting 5 weeks for it to go to the full membership. Others think they need a say as they haven't had one since Cameron was elected in 2015.
Can't see past Javid leaving today.

The country? I think you mean about 120,000 mostly old, mostly male and overwhelmingly white people. The people who voted in large numbers against their own party last month. People who are prepared to see the break-up of their country and serious economic damage for some ideological aim they cannot defend.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 19 2019, 06:00 PM

Here's a question for all you Boris haters. If he's so bad then why did May appoint him Foreign Secretary?

Posted by: T Boy Jun 19 2019, 06:08 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 07:00 PM) *
Here's a question for all you Boris haters. If he's so bad then why did May appoint him Foreign Secretary?


Omg did you say that with a straight face?

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 19 2019, 06:09 PM

QUOTE(T Boy @ Jun 19 2019, 07:08 PM) *
Omg did you say that with a straight face?



I'm not asking what sort of FS he was but why did she appoint him in the first place if he's such a waste of space as most of you here and on other forums claim?

Posted by: T Boy Jun 19 2019, 06:10 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 07:09 PM) *
I'm not asking what sort of FS he was but why did she appoint him in the first place if he's such a waste of space as most of you here and on other forums claim?


You think May had any sensible judgement at all???

Posted by: Klaus Jun 19 2019, 06:53 PM

Well Rory Stewart did very well and I’ll be following his career with interest as to how he know progresses and if he was as refreshingly honest as I hope he is. Very eloquent and reasonable politician.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jun 19 2019, 06:54 PM

Really quite saddened about Rory Stewart, he was easily the best (well, least bad/least deranged) option.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 19 2019, 07:47 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 07:09 PM) *
I'm not asking what sort of FS he was but why did she appoint him in the first place if he's such a waste of space as most of you here and on other forums claim?


Cos he was the architect of the Brexit result and May, as a Remainer, had to have those that had visibly advocated Brexit in all the key posts to avoid being criticised for not respecting the result. That they were useless was neither here nor there, as we saw when they all quit the Cabinet and sat grumbling and stabbing May in the back, and bringing down the Brexit deal everyone claims they wanted in the first place.

She tolerated his uselessness until he couldn't bear having to toe the party line if he wasn't in charge and just threw his toys out the pram, while causing a UK citizen to end up in prison and to go on hunger strike as a result. He took credit for someone else's idea as Mayor, wasted tens of millions on projects that were supposed to cost the taxpayer nothing, and never happened anyway cos they were shit ideas, and gave his rich pals planning permission 106 contribution-free deals that others had to pay. Oh and he got to lord it up at the Olympics on the back of other people's work.


Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 19 2019, 07:48 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jun 19 2019, 07:54 PM) *
Really quite saddened about Rory Stewart, he was easily the best (well, least bad/least deranged) option.


Yes, inevitable he would be dropped. His supporters will be of the saner kind, so it will be interesting to see which of the remaining extremists they consider the least deranged.....

Tough choice!

I'm guessing Gove. Hunt is useless and is there as cannon-fodder for Johnson, Javid is a no-hoper. Despite being a hypocrite and liar, Give is less dumb than the opposition.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 19 2019, 07:53 PM

I think this sums up the situation nicely from a supporter of BJ. Can I call him BJ? BoJob?

Nick Cohen
@NickCohen4
·
7h
Talked to a Tory MP last night who was backing Johnson
"Do you think he'd be any good as PM"
"No"
"What on earth will he do about Brexit"?
"No one knows"
"Why do you want him, then?"
"He's the best hope we've got"
"By 'we" you don't mean Britain do you?"
"No the party, of course"

Posted by: Rooney Jun 19 2019, 07:54 PM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jun 19 2019, 08:48 PM) *
Yes, inevitable he would be dropped. His supporters will be of the saner kind, so it will be interesting to see which of the remaining extremists they consider the least deranged.....

Tough choice!


No surprise really, he didn't do that well on the debate last night, which was largely down to the fact the others ganged up on him and targeted him quite clearly to enable themselves to be in the race against Boris.

The problem we are going to have (again) is none of these guys are going to be able to get their Brexit through. And I still refuse to believe we will leave with No Deal. I couldn't give a fuk what people voted in a referendum, leaving with a No Deal is going to be catastrophic for the economy and will quite rightly be the end of the Tory Party for a generation if it happens. Nobody seems to remember the 16m that didn't vote leave and certainly didn't vote to be poorer.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 19 2019, 09:13 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 05:08 PM) *
Just one leaves tonight. There's no minimum threshold to satisfy from what Sky News are saying, so just the one with the lowest vote to leave. Then another out around 1pm tomorrow and the last about 6pm. So we'll know the final two going to the country early tomorrow evening. If the other one dropped out, as some of the party hierarchy would like, as Leadsom did in 2016, Boris could be PM by Friday morning. Some would like to see him get on with the job straight away rather than waiting 5 weeks for it to go to the full membership. Others think they need a say as they haven't had one since Cameron was elected in 2015.
Can't see past Javid leaving today.

Let's look at the leadership contests since the members were supposedly given a say..

2001 - the members elected Iain Duncan Smith. He was so useless that the MPs got rid of him a couple years later, before he had a chance to screw up a general election/
2003 - Michael Howard was the only candidate, so the members didn't get a vote.
2005 - the members voted for David Cameron because he looked good on the telly. Mind you, most people look good on telly when compared with David Davis.
2016 - Theresa May was elected without a vote of the membership after Andrea Leadsom self-destructed.

The Tories' claim to be a democratic party wouldn't look great if they had yet another leader elected without a proper vote.


Posted by: Steve201 Jun 19 2019, 09:32 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 19 2019, 12:15 AM) *
So if there had been an advisory referendum 30 years ago on whether homosexual acts should be a criminal offence, you would have supported a government that acted on the result? Governments are supposed to act in the interests of the country, whether that is popular or not.


I get the point your making but comparing discrimation against a group of people about what they can and can't do in private or in the bigger picture who they are isn't really an honest and fair comparison imo.

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 19 2019, 09:53 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ Jun 19 2019, 07:53 PM) *
Well Rory Stewart did very well and I’ll be following his career with interest as to how he know progresses and if he was as refreshingly honest as I hope he is. Very eloquent and reasonable politician.


His voting record shows otherwise, but amongst even more extreme right wingers he sounded sane. Think he knew he wouldn't win so was laying the ground for future attempts to lead.

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 19 2019, 09:57 PM

QUOTE(T Boy @ Jun 19 2019, 04:44 PM) *
I love it when people are all ‘but democracy!!!!1!2!!2’ when they can’t think of a proper reason to leave.

Say it’s my birthday next week and I invite four friends out for a meal. We have the choice of restaurant A and restaurant B. We have a democratic vote and 3 of us pick restaurant A over 2 for B so we decide we’ll go to restaurant A.

Closer to the date, we discover that’s restaurant A has been serving actual dog shit as meals. Now aware of the facts and not wanting to eat dog shit, are we now not allowed to change our minds and go to the good restaurant? Do we have to eat dog shit because we voted for it first and we must respect that vote? Or does democracy allow us to change our minds?

Basically, the UK is going to be having dog shit for dinner for some time.


It's a good comparison but it fits your view of Brexit once again making democracy seem irrelevant.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 19 2019, 09:59 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ Jun 19 2019, 07:53 PM) *
Well Rory Stewart did very well and I’ll be following his career with interest as to how he know progresses and if he was as refreshingly honest as I hope he is. Very eloquent and reasonable politician.



Who refuses to serve his country under Boris if asked to.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jun 19 2019, 10:17 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ Jun 19 2019, 07:53 PM) *
Well Rory Stewart did very well and I’ll be following his career with interest as to how he know progresses and if he was as refreshingly honest as I hope he is. Very eloquent and reasonable politician.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/22/way-dealing-british-islamic-state-fighters-kill-almost-every/

Posted by: Bré Jun 19 2019, 10:22 PM

Rory Stewart is still a Tory. It's not hard for him to make himself appear a little more palatable/reasonable compared to the other lunatics who were running but that doesn't make him a good candidate.

It's interesting that he actually lost 10 votes in the third round. Looks like his big boost in the second round may have been down to people tactically voting for him either to get him to the debate or to eliminate Raab, or both.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jun 19 2019, 10:30 PM

It's all relative isn't it? Still a complete LOON, otherwise he wouldn't stand for the Conservative Party.

The hype from the media was predictable (after all they got in a massive froth about 3.3% polling 'Change UK'), as was his failure to make any kind of progress in a party that is being destroyed irrevocably by Brexit.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 19 2019, 10:32 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 10:59 PM) *
Who refuses to serve his country under Boris if asked to.

Anyone with a conscience. That, of course, doesn't apply to 99% of the Tory party.

Posted by: Iz~ Jun 20 2019, 02:02 AM

While Stewart would have been the only one offering anything not completely insane and I liked him for at least bringing to the conversation the fact that compromise and talking to all people (not just the white men in their 60s of the Tory Party) is needed and necessary in politics, his ideas I think would have been only a slightly more palatable version of what May's been doing, trying to break the Withdrawal Agreement through and creating this vague Brexit Assembly to sort out the matter otherwise. The other candidates don't have anything better, and at least he had a plan, but it did feel like a weak plan. Better for him that he isn't tied to this dumpster fire and can 'rescue' the Tories later down the line.

This will go to a vote, it will be Hunt led to the slaughter for Johnson's ego to triumph, and then it begins.

Posted by: T Boy Jun 20 2019, 05:02 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 19 2019, 10:57 PM) *
It's a good comparison but it fits your view of Brexit once again making democracy seem irrelevant.


It’s an analogy that’s based upon the democratic right to change your mind. How does it make democracy seem irrelevant?

If we were given another referendum, now that we have a clearer idea of what Brexit means, and people still vote leave in a majority then so be it. But until we get that chance there’s no way I’ll be giving up this argument.

The more you post, the more it looks like you don’t actually understand democracy yourself.

The vote has already been respected. Wasting over 3 years and getting nowhere when the government could have been focusing on solving the country’s actual problems instead surely proves that the first vote wasn’t ignored.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 20 2019, 07:00 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 10:59 PM) *
Who refuses to serve his country under Boris if asked to.


yes but Boris resigned from serving his country because he didnt get the top job he wanted and saw an opportunity to slag off May and bring her down.

Job done.

PS Rory Stewart also DID serve his country in the military and beyond, and if the rags are to be believed, in MI5. He knows an unprincipled egotist when he sees one.....

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 20 2019, 07:23 AM

QUOTE(T Boy @ Jun 20 2019, 06:02 AM) *
It’s an analogy that’s based upon the democratic right to change your mind. How does it make democracy seem irrelevant?

If we were given another referendum, now that we have a clearer idea of what Brexit means, and people still vote leave in a majority then so be it. But until we get that chance there’s no way I’ll be giving up this argument.

The more you post, the more it looks like you don’t actually understand democracy yourself.

The vote has already been respected. Wasting over 3 years and getting nowhere when the government could have been focusing on solving the country’s actual problems instead surely proves that the first vote wasn’t ignored.


Because the original referendum was never enacted.

You don't have to give into your arguement your entitled to argue it out. I don't believe another referendum would resolve the issues imho it would do what the first one did and polarise the country further. There are all sorts of results too. A close remain victory and the other side would argue for a third poll, we could go on and on.

Why the more I post do you think I don't 'understand democracy'? Why do you have to get personal?

The original vote was never respected it was undone and stopped by MPs in every possible way they could have.


Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jun 20 2019, 08:16 AM

I feel like this needs to be reiterated:

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jun 19 2019, 09:46 AM) *
"If a democracy cannot change its mind, then it ceases to be a democracy"

- David Davis (former Brexit Secretary), 2012


Words from the actual former Brexit Secretary in 2012.

Democracy isn't a static thing, otherwise we wouldn't have general elections and changes in governing parties.

Posted by: Iz~ Jun 20 2019, 08:29 AM

Also, the referendum as voted for can’t be enacted. It’s done, negotiations are over, the result wouldn’t be good for the country so MPs rejected it. They spent 3 years with this project as their primary focus. Over and above all the far more important issues we need to face. It most certainly has been respected.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jun 20 2019, 08:42 AM

Can we please stick to the topic of the Conservative party leadership race please?

I know Brexit is relevant to it, but there are http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=218394&st=1280&start=1280 to discuss the neverendum.

Thanks.

Posted by: T Boy Jun 20 2019, 11:04 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 20 2019, 08:23 AM) *
Because the original referendum was never enacted.

You don't have to give into your arguement your entitled to argue it out. I don't believe another referendum would resolve the issues imho it would do what the first one did and polarise the country further. There are all sorts of results too. A close remain victory and the other side would argue for a third poll, we could go on and on.

Why the more I post do you think I don't 'understand democracy'? Why do you have to get personal?

The original vote was never respected it was undone and stopped by MPs in every possible way they could have.


It’s not personal, it’s just that you keep ignoring the posts where everyone explains why a second vote would be democratic.

Posted by: coi Jun 20 2019, 12:22 PM

Not exactly a surprise but Sajid Javid is the latest to be knocked out.

Boris Johnson - 157 (+14)
Michael Gove - 61 (+10)
Jeremy Hunt - 59 (+5)

Sajid Javid - 34 (-4)

The other two were spoilt ballot papers.

Posted by: Bré Jun 20 2019, 12:42 PM

I'd bet one of the two spoilt ballots is Rory Stewart himself.

Posted by: Klaus Jun 20 2019, 12:49 PM

It is like deciding which cup of sick you want to drink

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jun 20 2019, 01:00 PM

I wish there was something somebody could do to stop Boris. The thought of him at the helm makes me feel actual pain.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 20 2019, 01:24 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jun 20 2019, 02:00 PM) *
I wish there was something somebody could do to stop Boris. The thought of him at the helm makes me feel actual pain.



Oh please relax. Everything will be fine. He's not the devil everyone makes him out to be. smile.gif

Posted by: PeaceMob Jun 20 2019, 01:48 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jun 20 2019, 02:00 PM) *
I wish there was something somebody could do to stop Boris. The thought of him at the helm makes me feel actual pain.


I shouldn't laugh at this comment really.

Posted by: PeaceMob Jun 20 2019, 01:52 PM

Trump wants Boris as Prime Minister so hopefully it will happen. The UK/US relationship could then be about to go next level. EU who?

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jun 20 2019, 02:08 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 20 2019, 02:24 PM) *
Oh please relax. Everything will be fine. He's not the devil everyone makes him out to be. smile.gif



Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 20 2019, 02:37 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Jun 20 2019, 02:52 PM) *
Trump wants Boris as Prime Minister so hopefully it will happen. The UK/US relationship could then be about to go next level. EU who?

Oh I see, so now we are supposed to choose our PM according to what the US president wants. Whatever happened to sovvrintee?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 20 2019, 02:38 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 20 2019, 02:24 PM) *
Oh please relax. Everything will be fine. He's not the devil everyone makes him out to be. smile.gif

No, he's worse.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 20 2019, 04:18 PM

Is it too much to hope that Johnson's supporters will switch en masse to Hunt and Gove so that the liar can find out what it is like to be lied to?

Posted by: coi Jun 20 2019, 05:19 PM

Boris Johnson - 160 (+3)
Jeremy Hunt - 77 (+18)

Michael Gove - 75 (+14)

The new PM will be either Boris Johnson or Jeremy Hunt.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 20 2019, 05:20 PM

So it's an Old Etonian against an Old Carthusian. Two people really in touch with most voters.

Posted by: Klaus Jun 20 2019, 05:22 PM

Somehow I think I’d actually rather have Boris than Mr NHS Privatisation, especially when it will be under great threat from Brexit (and particularly if the worst comes to the absolute worst and a No Deal occurs)

what a terrible choice between the two though, where’s the reset button

Posted by: T Boy Jun 20 2019, 05:24 PM

The apocalypse is coming either way.

Posted by: PeaceMob Jun 20 2019, 05:26 PM

So it's between the guy that compared the EU to the Soviet Union and the guy that led the Leave campaign to leave the EU.

Good times! cool.gif

Posted by: Chez Wombat Jun 20 2019, 05:32 PM

We are truly Homer between Scylla and Charybdis here. I can't recall a time our leadership was as bleak as this...

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 20 2019, 05:35 PM

QUOTE(T Boy @ Jun 20 2019, 12:04 PM) *
It’s not personal, it’s just that you keep ignoring the posts where everyone explains why a second vote would be democratic.


I felt by your post you were trying to belittle my understanding of democracy which is the way it sounded. But sure anyway no point in arguing about it here.

The reason a deal can't get through is because MPs won't agree to Mrs Mays deal but the reality is there are MPs (on both sides) who have their own agenda and will never agree to any deal. It's a remain parliament and always was.

Anyway let's move on, I'm kind of glad that we didn't end up with a Gove vs Johnson vote off. Although both a terrible options. There's a great article by Martin kettle in today's Guardian summing up perfectly how the Tory party have become a party of faith today compared to pre thatcher when they were much more reasonable or what we would now call One Nation.

Either way I hope we get a GE after this!

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 20 2019, 05:41 PM

QUOTE(Chez Wombat @ Jun 20 2019, 06:32 PM) *
We are truly Homer between Scylla and Charybdis here. I can't recall a time our leadership was as bleak as this...


Someone's bound to find evidence linkin Putin to steering the result his way 😂

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 20 2019, 06:43 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Jun 20 2019, 02:52 PM) *
Trump wants Boris as Prime Minister so hopefully it will happen. The UK/US relationship could then be about to go next level. EU who?


Next Level being selling off parts of the NHS, cheap battery farmed meat imports, huge drug price hikes, and we'll get in return, errr, errr, errr shorter lives.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 20 2019, 06:47 PM

Prime Minister Rhyming Slang? Never gonna happen. They made sure they got someone no-one would vote for up against The huge BJ.

Pair of Jeremy Hunts.

Posted by: Bré Jun 20 2019, 07:05 PM

It's a good thing Boris is going to win tbh. Everyone might be a bit confused if both the Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition were named Jeremy C.

(not my joke)

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 21 2019, 12:46 AM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jun 20 2019, 09:16 AM) *
I feel like this needs to be reiterated:
Words from the actual former Brexit Secretary in 2012.

Democracy isn't a static thing, otherwise we wouldn't have general elections and changes in governing parties.


It's one of my three favourite quotes - the other two are:

Churchill 'Democracy is the worst type of government, apart from all the rest'
Nye Bevan 'If You Stand in the Middle of the Road you will get knocked over'

Posted by: Brett-Butler Jun 21 2019, 07:59 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 21 2019, 01:46 AM) *
Nye Bevan 'If You Stand in the Middle of the Road you will get knocked over'


"Not if you're on a bridge".

- Brett-Butler.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 21 2019, 08:05 AM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jun 21 2019, 08:59 AM) *
"Not if you're on a bridge".

- Brett-Butler.


Bridges down this part of the country are often single-track. You still get run over, you just have no idea from which direction you're going to get knocked down laugh.gif

Posted by: blacksquare Jun 21 2019, 11:22 AM



What a time to be alive

Posted by: Steve201 Jun 21 2019, 04:29 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jun 21 2019, 08:59 AM) *
"Not if you're on a bridge".

- Brett-Butler.


laugh.gif

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jun 21 2019, 08:00 PM

Police called to loud altercation at Boris Johnson's home:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/21/police-called-to-loud-altercation-at-boris-johnsons-home?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR1bu3d5DdBm2vlBm4lSnzQdDsDx3GuFXpQj0ZGyqSvaIVLzxqh0j-FlfNQ

How the fuck can we trust him to manage the economy if his own partner says he's no good with money?

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jun 21 2019, 08:02 PM

Actually, I should have just left that at "How the fuck can we trust him?"

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 21 2019, 08:21 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jun 21 2019, 09:00 PM) *
Police called to loud altercation at Boris Johnson's home:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/21/police-called-to-loud-altercation-at-boris-johnsons-home?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR1bu3d5DdBm2vlBm4lSnzQdDsDx3GuFXpQj0ZGyqSvaIVLzxqh0j-FlfNQ

How the fuck can we trust him to manage the economy if his own partner says he's no good with money?

He's probably chasing Mark Field's vote.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 22 2019, 08:00 AM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jun 21 2019, 09:00 PM) *
Police called to loud altercation at Boris Johnson's home:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/21/police-called-to-loud-altercation-at-boris-johnsons-home?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR1bu3d5DdBm2vlBm4lSnzQdDsDx3GuFXpQj0ZGyqSvaIVLzxqh0j-FlfNQ

How the fuck can we trust him to manage the economy if his own partner says he's no good with money?


It must come as a complete shock to her that the man she's involved with is untrustworthy and flaky, given his habit of cheating on his wives, habitually lying to the entire world, and not doing his homework when he's given a job. Who knew!? It'll take more than a haircut to change him.

But hey, Tories have no option cos they are going to wiped out and he's their last great hope to avoid it. Yes, really. That's how desperate they are.....

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 22 2019, 08:33 AM

Most couples argue at some time or another and occasionally the police get called. A passer-by called the police once when my wife and daughter were having a loud argument. Shows Boris is only human and one of us.

Let's hope this doesn't affect his leadership bid. smile.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 22 2019, 08:42 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 22 2019, 09:33 AM) *
Most couples argue at some time or another and occasionally the police get called. A passer-by called the police once when my wife and daughter were having a loud argument. Shows Boris is only human and one of us.

Let's hope this doesn't affect his leadership bid. smile.gif

So you don’t think this shows a lack of judgment? Yes, we all have rows, but a sane person would avoid doing so in a semi-public place when on the verge of becoming PM.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 23 2019, 12:18 AM

Papers are going hard on Boris at the moment, can only assume Murdoch has decided he wants Hunt as PM. Still Boris is too popular with the members and he will win the race, but I can't see him lasting too long in office.

Posted by: vidcapper Jun 23 2019, 04:52 AM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Jun 23 2019, 01:18 AM) *
Papers are going hard on Boris at the moment, can only assume Murdoch has decided he wants Hunt as PM. Still Boris is too popular with the members and he will win the race, but I can't see him lasting too long in office.


You think him being leader will trigger an early GE then?

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 23 2019, 07:19 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 23 2019, 05:52 AM) *
You think him being leader will trigger an early GE then?


You mean the man who was sacked by The Times in his first job for falsifying a quotation, a man running to be a Prime Minister living in his girlfriends flat cos he cheated on his wife (again) and who still can't avoid annoying her with his behaviour, a man who lost his previous seat in Parliament, a man who doesn;t do his jobs properly when her gets them, cos he's too flaky and lazy (this is what people who know him say - nobody says he's a hard worker with a grasp on issues), a man who has claimed without the "elite" we'd still be living in caves? The man who has just won the party nomination pretty much and still cocks it up? A man with a history of failure and lying? A man who claims he has a solution to Brexit that May never thought of, but he can't explain what it is?

What could possibly go wrong!

Still, no-one will want to live at number 11 if his girlfriend moves in with him - they'd never get any sleep.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 23 2019, 09:00 AM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Jun 23 2019, 01:18 AM) *
Papers are going hard on Boris at the moment, can only assume Murdoch has decided he wants Hunt as PM. Still Boris is too popular with the members and he will win the race, but I can't see him lasting too long in office.

Hunt’s first Cabinet job was Minister for Murdoch. Murdich, therefore, knows how co-operative he can be.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 23 2019, 09:04 AM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jun 23 2019, 08:19 AM) *
You mean the man who was sacked by The Times in his first job for falsifying a quotation, a man running to be a Prime Minister living in his girlfriends flat cos he cheated on his wife (again) and who still can't avoid annoying her with his behaviour, a man who lost his previous seat in Parliament, a man who doesn;t do his jobs properly when her gets them, cos he's too flaky and lazy (this is what people who know him say - nobody says he's a hard worker with a grasp on issues), a man who has claimed without the "elite" we'd still be living in caves? The man who has just won the party nomination pretty much and still cocks it up? A man with a history of failure and lying? A man who claims he has a solution to Brexit that May never thought of, but he can't explain what it is?

What could possibly go wrong!

Still, no-one will want to live at number 11 if his girlfriend moves in with him - they'd never get any sleep.

In the interest of accuracy, I should point out that Johnson didn’t lose his previous seat. He resigned from it when he became London mayor. He then got himself selected for another seat while still mayor after promising he wouldn’t.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 23 2019, 09:27 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jun 23 2019, 05:52 AM) *
You think him being leader will trigger an early GE then?


The Tories don't want a General Election. The memberbase probably see Boris as the populist option, which may have been the case 3-4 years ago, but no more. He's lost a lot of his stock with the general public who think he's either a moron or flips his mantro depending on who he is talking to. They are going to lose a lot of their marginal seats to Lib Dems and the Brexit Party also likely to target them as well if we don't leave on 31st October. The only wat a General Election might work for them is if Labour lose a lot of their seats to Lib Dem/Brexit too.

Plus Boris has so many enemies both in his own party and elsewhere. There's bound to be tons of dirt on him people are willing to use.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 23 2019, 09:28 AM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 23 2019, 10:04 AM) *
In the interest of accuracy, I should point out that Johnson didn’t lose his previous seat. He resigned from it when he became London mayor. He then got himself selected for another seat while still mayor after promising he wouldn’t.


Thanks Simon, oops, the memory fades laugh.gif

Worth mentioning all the Mayoral promises he didn't deliver on:

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-boris-johnsons-broken-promises-as-london-mayor

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 23 2019, 11:54 AM



Think Sturg’s very matter of fact answer sums up most of our feelings quite well

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 23 2019, 02:34 PM

Some of the things being said about the alleged incident involving Johnson are positively frightening, for two main reasons. First, there is the suggestion that the neighbour should simply have ignored it, rather than reporting it and making a recording which could potentially have been used as evidence.

Second, the abuse hurled at the neighbour is scar in what is supposed to be a democracy. The Telegraph is leading the way with a front-page article accusing him of the unspeakable crime of being left-wing. Yes, the Telegraph's official line is that left-leaning people should not be allowed to report suspicions of domestic violence and should definitely not be allowed to do anything that might damage the career of a Telegraph employee. If this is a sign of things to come in the event of a Johnson victory, the UK is about to go through a very dark period in its history.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 23 2019, 04:38 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 23 2019, 03:34 PM) *
Some of the things being said about the alleged incident involving Johnson are positively frightening, for two main reasons. First, there is the suggestion that the neighbour should simply have ignored it, rather than reporting it and making a recording which could potentially have been used as evidence.

Second, the abuse hurled at the neighbour is scar in what is supposed to be a democracy. The Telegraph is leading the way with a front-page article accusing him of the unspeakable crime of being left-wing. Yes, the Telegraph's official line is that left-leaning people should not be allowed to report suspicions of domestic violence and should definitely not be allowed to do anything that might damage the career of a Telegraph employee. If this is a sign of things to come in the event of a Johnson victory, the UK is about to go through a very dark period in its history.


1. He is likely to be PM so it's in the public interest to know what the the Steve Bannon-collaborating hypocrite is up to in his dealings with his own "family"

2. Telegraph is hugely hypocritical, happy to publish any anti-left BS pushed by people such as their paid lapdog Johnson, for example Diana Abbot having a quick drink on the Tube - which is also in the public interest cos she's an MP. The main difference is they didn't have an investigation into the members of the public who person tattle-tailed on Abbot, or Corbyn, or anyone they don't like. Nothing they did was illegal. It's just a way of trying to make the story seem unfair on poor ol Boris and his inability to keep women on his side as he sloshes wine all over the furniture and the old bag moans and whinges loudly, how very dare she say anything about the future saviour of the Telegr... I mean Brexit! And also to warn anyone else off doing that, or they'll also get the heavy mob treatment, because that is what UK politics is now: threats to shut up and mind yer place or else.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jun 23 2019, 06:40 PM

Speaking of the Telegraph, Allison Pearson (a journalist from that rag) who had been fiercely criticising Boris Johnson's neighbours tweeted this in 2011:



A contemptible, duplicitous hypocrite. A prime example of why people perceive journalists as being scum.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 23 2019, 07:43 PM

[quote name='Suedehead2' date='Jun 22 2019, 09:42 AM' post='6262718']
So you don’t think this shows a lack of judgment? /quote]


Not really. It shows he's a true man of the people and just like the ordinary working man, warts and all. According to The Met, nobody was harmed and no charges will follow it seems. A load of fuss over nothing. Seems that If Boris farts tomorrow it'll be world news. biggrin.gif No wonder he's refusing to discuss this. Nothing to see here folks and time to move on.

Posted by: Rooney Jun 23 2019, 07:56 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 23 2019, 08:43 PM) *
So you don’t think this shows a lack of judgment? /quote]
Not really. It shows he's a true man of the people and just like the ordinary working man, warts and all. According to The Met, nobody was harmed and no charges will follow it seems. A load of fuss over nothing. Seems that If Boris farts tomorrow it'll be world news. biggrin.gif No wonder he's refusing to discuss this. Nothing to see here folks and time to move on.


Chris, Boris Johnson is about about a far away from "man of the people" as you can get. He is refusing to discuss because he is being advised not to and he has been this way for some time. The Guardian have not released the tape which means 1) there is nothing juicy on it 2) there is some injuction imposed on them or 3) they will use it later down the line. I reckon it's probably number 3.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 24 2019, 08:38 AM

to add to Rooney's spot-on assessment

Facts from Wikipedia:

"Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson (born 19 June 1964. Born in New York to wealthy upper-middle class English parents, Johnson was educated at the European School of Brussels, Ashdown House, and Eton College. He read Classics at Balliol College, Oxford, where he was elected President of the Oxford Union in 1986. He began his career in journalism at The Times but was sacked for falsifying a quotation. He later became The Daily Telegraph's Brussels correspondent, with his articles exerting a strong influence on growing Eurosceptic sentiment among the British right wing. He was assistant editor of the Telegraph from 1994 to 1999 and edited The Spectator from 1999 to 2005. He was elected MP for Henley in 2001, and served in the Shadow Cabinet under Conservative leaders Michael Howard and David Cameron. "

Don;t know about anyone else on Buzzjack, but I went to a Comprehensive, worked in factories, went to a teacher-training college, and have had low-paid jobs in Local Government most of my life. Johnson has NOTHING to do with being a Man Of The People, he serves the rich and powerful cronies he hangs around with. Now if he popped down my local for the pub quiz (like our current LibDem Leader of the Council did 2 weeks ago) I might agree there is some truth in it. He knows nothing about ordinary people, and has defended the elite as progressing human society and being necessary. Note, not the geeks and nerds who come up with life-changing inventions, the smart people, the innovators, but the "elite" (which to me means those who inherited wealth and power, just like him).

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jun 24 2019, 09:12 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 23 2019, 08:43 PM) *
Not really. It shows he's a true man of the people and just like the ordinary working man, warts and all. According to The Met, nobody was harmed and no charges will follow it seems. A load of fuss over nothing. Seems that If Boris farts tomorrow it'll be world news. biggrin.gif No wonder he's refusing to discuss this. Nothing to see here folks and time to move on.


Urgh, good grief. Why are you like this?

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 24 2019, 09:14 AM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jun 24 2019, 10:12 AM) *
Urgh, good grief. Why are you like this?



Like what exactly? Am just a massive Boris fan and have been for years. He's the best man out of the two for the job by far.

Posted by: Iz~ Jun 24 2019, 09:35 AM

In politics, being a 'fan' of anyone is dangerous (this is not sports) and at its worst leads to 'cults of personality' like the one that's currently surrounding the American President. If you are not critical of your leaders when they do something morally abhorrent, then everyone else must assume that you support such morally abhorrent acts.

Like, say, for example, domestic violence from a man on the cusp of becoming PM of this country.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 24 2019, 12:36 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 23 2019, 08:43 PM) *
Not really. It shows he's a true man of the people and just like the ordinary working man, warts and all. According to The Met, nobody was harmed and no charges will follow it seems. A load of fuss over nothing. Seems that If Boris farts tomorrow it'll be world news. biggrin.gif No wonder he's refusing to discuss this. Nothing to see here folks and time to move on.

This oaf described the £275,000 per year he receives from the Telegraph as “chicken feed”. How does that make him a man of the people?

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jun 24 2019, 01:34 PM

Indeed... he is pretty shameless about it too - at the first Hustings he said ‘from the Crash of 2008 onward... can you think of anybody who stuck up for the bankers as much as I did?’

Chris, you are being exploited...

Disgusting the way that some of the media have treated that member of the public over this, and hypocritical given the whole Leveson enquiry and the underhand tactics that they used routinely to extort information that wasn't in the national interest. Anyway, seems odd that Boris has had nothing to say on this matter as couples arguing is perfectly normal and it almost leads me to think that there is something to hide here.

‘get off my fucking laptop’
‘Fuck business’

The man is a clear liability.

Posted by: blacksquare Jun 24 2019, 02:05 PM



The hypocrisy continues

Posted by: mald487 Jun 24 2019, 02:58 PM

QUOTE(Iz~ @ Jun 24 2019, 09:35 AM) *
In politics, being a 'fan' of anyone is dangerous (this is not sports) and at its worst leads to 'cults of personality' like the one that's currently surrounding the American President. If you are not critical of your leaders when they do something morally abhorrent, then everyone else must assume that you support such morally abhorrent acts.

Like, say, for example, domestic violence from a man on the cusp of becoming PM of this country.


Absolutely. This isn't Celebrity Big Brother. Once you become a 'fan' of somebody you lose all objectivity.

Posted by: Klaus Jun 24 2019, 04:46 PM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Jun 24 2019, 03:05 PM) *
The hypocrisy continues

Probably hired to save face and show everythings fine

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 24 2019, 06:03 PM

Johnson has continued his policy of avoiding any potentially awkward questions by declining an invitation to a Sky News debate. I assume Chris will now withdraw his support as Johnson has snubbed his favourite channel.

Posted by: Common Sense Jun 24 2019, 07:08 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 24 2019, 07:03 PM) *
Johnson has continued his policy of avoiding any potentially awkward questions by declining an invitation to a Sky News debate. I assume Chris will now withdraw his support as Johnson has snubbed his favourite channel.



He has nothing to really gain by doing a debate and everything to lose. He's already miles ahead with the Tory membership and one slip and the press and Twitter will jump on him like a pack of rabid dogs.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 24 2019, 07:26 PM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 24 2019, 08:08 PM) *
He has nothing to really gain by doing a debate and everything to lose. He's already miles ahead with the Tory membership and one slip and the press and Twitter will jump on him like a pack of rabid dogs.

If he’s afraid of a cock up, how does that make him fit to be PM?

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 25 2019, 07:07 AM

QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 24 2019, 08:08 PM) *
He has nothing to really gain by doing a debate and everything to lose. He's already miles ahead with the Tory membership and one slip and the press and Twitter will jump on him like a pack of rabid dogs.


The press are making his lovey-dovey set-up photo-op the front page. How's that thing about the "Press" rabidly attacking him going? You mean the press that PAY HIM TO WRITE FOR THEM?

Just imagine Corbyn had had an argument with his latest girlfriend, and that was recorded. Now THAT is when you'd see rabid dogs.....

It's the hypocrisy I can't stand. Twitter jumps on everyone like a pack of dogs BTW. You could be Jesus reborn preaching love and tolerance and twitter would still slag you off mercilessly because people with problems and hate and bitterness love to slag off other people who don't. Culprit number 1: see Mr Trump still slagging off a dead war hero from his own party, when he, a draft dodger, didn't get invited to the funeral cos he'd been slagging him off while he was battling cancer - so he had a baby strop about it and can't let it go even when he died.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jun 25 2019, 07:53 AM

Best thing about that photo is that it’s already been demonstrated that it’s not even a f***ing recent photo laugh.gif he must think we zip up the back!!

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jun 25 2019, 04:19 PM


Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 3 2019, 07:48 AM

OK Johnson has annoyed me. Again. The pig-shit thicko has just announced he will look into seeing whether taxes on fags, sugar and other health-harming things are "unfair on the poor". What he is proposing is actually giving his cancer-promoting friends in government tax breaks to let them get even richer selling crap that kills (stand up Rees-Mogg and take a bow you cancer-promoting Dublin-based hypocritical Brexit-supporting tax avoider), with the useful by-product that it sends poorer people to an earlier grave and costs the rich folk a bit less in tax.

Just to point out the bleeding obvious - removing tax on unhealthy products helps the rich, it doesn't help the poor. If you want to help the poor, you keep the taxes on unhealthy products to encourage people to buy healthy products and THEN YOU GIVE THE LOW-PAID TAX BREAKS TO COMPENSATE FOR THE EXTRA TAX. That way the rich don't benefit and the poor do benefit.

f***ing liars trying to sound as though they are in it for the poor when they aren't. I can't stand hypocrisy and lies. I've probably mentioned that before.....

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 3 2019, 02:36 PM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jul 3 2019, 08:48 AM) *
OK Johnson has annoyed me. Again. The pig-shit thicko has just announced he will look into seeing whether taxes on fags, sugar and other health-harming things are "unfair on the poor". What he is proposing is actually giving his cancer-promoting friends in government tax breaks to let them get even richer selling crap that kills (stand up Rees-Mogg and take a bow you cancer-promoting Dublin-based hypocritical Brexit-supporting tax avoider), with the useful by-product that it sends poorer people to an earlier grave and costs the rich folk a bit less in tax.

Just to point out the bleeding obvious - removing tax on unhealthy products helps the rich, it doesn't help the poor. If you want to help the poor, you keep the taxes on unhealthy products to encourage people to buy healthy products and THEN YOU GIVE THE LOW-PAID TAX BREAKS TO COMPENSATE FOR THE EXTRA TAX. That way the rich don't benefit and the poor do benefit.

f***ing liars trying to sound as though they are in it for the poor when they aren't. I can't stand hypocrisy and lies. I've probably mentioned that before.....

Oops...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-imposes-sugar-tax-at-city-hall-a3156431.html

Posted by: Gay Rights Jul 5 2019, 05:16 PM

The election papers were posted out to Tory members the other day so voting has commenced. I hope the party membership just do the right thing...



.....And elect Boris! My champagne is on ice for when he enters No.10.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jul 5 2019, 05:54 PM

QUOTE(Gay Rights @ Jul 5 2019, 06:16 PM) *
The election papers were posted out to Tory members the other day so voting has commenced. I hope the party membership just do the right thing...
.....And elect Boris! My champagne is on ice for when he enters No.10.


You won't be able to afford champagne when he strips you of your benefits.

Posted by: *Tim Jul 5 2019, 06:25 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jul 5 2019, 05:54 PM) *
You won't be able to afford champagne when he strips you of your benefits.

!!!!!

Posted by: Calum Jul 5 2019, 06:38 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jul 5 2019, 06:54 PM) *
You won't be able to afford champagne when he strips you of your benefits.

Excuse you, he works very hard for those benefits feeding a dog, hoovering and dusting occasionally

Posted by: T Boy Jul 5 2019, 07:58 PM

QUOTE(Calum @ Jul 5 2019, 07:38 PM) *
Excuse you, he works very hard for those benefits feeding a dog, hoovering and dusting occasionally


He may have to resort to stealing more than just the plastic fruit bags from the supermarket.

Posted by: Gay Rights Jul 6 2019, 09:24 AM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jul 5 2019, 06:54 PM) *
You won't be able to afford champagne when he strips you of your benefits.



Oh I should be okay. Just 6 years to go until I reach retirement age. That's probably three more re-assessments.

Posted by: Gay Rights Jul 6 2019, 09:25 AM

QUOTE(Calum @ Jul 5 2019, 07:38 PM) *
Excuse you, he works very hard for those benefits feeding a dog, hoovering and dusting occasionally



Too right. I hoover every week and dust every month too. Also laundry and a little cooking.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 9 2019, 07:45 PM

Jack Mogg has tweeted (ot got his butler to tweet) in support of Johnson, saying that only he can reunite the Quitters (I refuse to use his word). That tells us two things. First, Mogg doesn't seem to think Johnson can reunite the country he did so much to divide in the first place. Second, we finally have ab admission that the Quitters are not united on what sort of withdrawal they want. I think the Mogg has inadvertently let the moggy out of the bag.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 10 2019, 07:05 AM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 9 2019, 08:45 PM) *
Jack Mogg has tweeted (ot got his butler to tweet) in support of Johnson, saying that only he can reunite the Quitters (I refuse to use his word). That tells us two things. First, Mogg doesn't seem to think Johnson can reunite the country he did so much to divide in the first place. Second, we finally have ab admission that the Quitters are not united on what sort of withdrawal they want. I think the Mogg has inadvertently let the moggy out of the bag.


miaowww!

If Reeks-mogg were a cat he'd be a pampered cat on a country estate, idly slowly torturing passing butterflies and small birds for hours on end till he got bored with 'em and then leave them to suffer rather than put them out of their misery. Then go back to eating expensive kittty food out of his gold-plated bowl then get the servants to clean-up his poop which he did on the best carpet cos he's too lazy to go outside and dig his own hole in the soil and cover it up. It's called paying others to clean up mess you created cos you literally only give a shit about yourself.

Posted by: Gay Rights Jul 11 2019, 09:33 PM

Heard on the 10pm radio news that police are searching for graffiti artists who daubed "BORIS IS A COKE-HEADED PERVERT" on a bridge overlooking the M4. The local council called out specialist contractors and are hurriedly trying to remove this. biggrin.gif

Hope they catch them and throw the book at them for those horrible lies. mad.gif

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jul 11 2019, 09:56 PM

You're gonna love the graffiti that the weegies write about him

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 12 2019, 07:31 AM

QUOTE(Gay Rights @ Jul 11 2019, 10:33 PM) *
Heard on the 10pm radio news that police are searching for graffiti artists who daubed "BORIS IS A COKE-HEADED PERVERT" on a bridge overlooking the M4. The local council called out specialist contractors and are hurriedly trying to remove this. biggrin.gif

Hope they catch them and throw the book at them for those horrible lies. mad.gif


Well, the last word is incorrect, so I agree about removing it. They should have said "Boris has been a coke-snorting serial adulterer". He will never deny that statement. With a bit of luck when voters see what he fails to deliver on his promises we can edit it down to "Boris has been" and just leave it at that..... laugh.gif

Posted by: Gay Rights Jul 12 2019, 09:37 AM

Another poll of Tory members, taken this last week, after ballot papers were sent out and received, has Boris on 72% and Hunt on 28%. So if that's the way they vote it's looking like a landslide for Boris our next PM.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 12 2019, 10:07 AM

Colour-me-shocked: middle-aged-rich-man says he can save the Tory Party, cough, I mean UNITED Kingdom (even though he contributed to the current crisis and split) by lying about Brexit to Brexit-loving well-off middle-aged men and they love him.

Who'd a thunk it!!!

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 12 2019, 02:20 PM

QUOTE(Gay Rights @ Jul 12 2019, 10:37 AM) *
Another poll of Tory members, taken this last week, after ballot papers were sent out and received, has Boris on 72% and Hunt on 28%. So if that's the way they vote it's looking like a landslide for Boris our next PM.

Ah yes, that would be the same poll as the one that said 70% of their sample claimed to have voted already whereas only around 30% of ballot papers have been received back so far.

Posted by: Gay Rights Jul 12 2019, 02:37 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 12 2019, 03:20 PM) *
Ah yes, that would be the same poll as the one that said 70% of their sample claimed to have voted already whereas only around 30% of ballot papers have been received back so far.


Are you saying that Hunt has a chance then Suedy? smile.gif

Have they said when the result will be announced yet? I know it's w/c 22nd.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 12 2019, 02:59 PM

QUOTE(Gay Rights @ Jul 12 2019, 03:37 PM) *
Are you saying that Hunt has a chance then Suedy? smile.gif

Have they said when the result will be announced yet? I know it's w/c 22nd.

They have given the date, but I can’t remember when it is. In their usual fashion, repeating what they did with their election manifesto, they broke with convention and planned to announce it on the same day that the Lib Dems announce their new leader. The Lib Dem date has been changed.

Posted by: Gay Rights Jul 12 2019, 03:14 PM

Okay they'll announce it Tuesday 23rd with May speaking in her last PMQ's at noon on 24th before she heads off to the Palace around 2pm to see The Queen followed by the new Tory leader. So in place by Wednesday tea-time.

I notice you didn't answer my first question Suedy.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 12 2019, 04:11 PM

QUOTE(Gay Rights @ Jul 12 2019, 04:14 PM) *
Okay they'll announce it Tuesday 23rd with May speaking in her last PMQ's at noon on 24th before she heads off to the Palace around 2pm to see The Queen followed by the new Tory leader. So in place by Wednesday tea-time.

I notice you didn't answer my first question Suedy.

I was following your example. I thought you'd approve.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jul 12 2019, 05:34 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 12 2019, 03:20 PM) *
Ah yes, that would be the same poll as the one that said 70% of their sample claimed to have voted already whereas only around 30% of ballot papers have been received back so far.

Well it is the Royal Mail....

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jul 12 2019, 09:09 PM

QUOTE(Gay Rights @ Jul 11 2019, 10:33 PM) *
Heard on the 10pm radio news that police are searching for graffiti artists who daubed "BORIS IS A COKE-HEADED PERVERT" on a bridge overlooking the M4. The local council called out specialist contractors and are hurriedly trying to remove this. biggrin.gif

Hope they catch them and throw the book at them for those horrible lies. mad.gif




and my personal favourite:


Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 13 2019, 08:33 AM

Hah! There's a great one going round of an 18th century mock-up letter using Trump's July 4th Troops inspection speech about airports being involved in the fighting during the Revolutionary War Of Independence. laugh.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 13 2019, 11:32 AM

It was always only going to be a matter of time, but now Johnson has gone the full Trump He is denying failing to backs Kim Darroch despite very clear evidence to prove him wrong. I really cannot understand how anyone thinks this serial liar is a suitable person to run a bath, let alone a country.

Posted by: Gay Rights Jul 13 2019, 04:53 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 13 2019, 12:32 PM) *
It was always only going to be a matter of time, but now Johnson has gone the full Trump He is denying failing to backs Kim Darroch despite very clear evidence to prove him wrong. I really cannot understand how anyone thinks this serial liar is a suitable person to run a bath, let alone a country.



I feel very sorry for Boris. Since the leadership election started he's had people mud-slinging and criticising non-stop yet he's still there doing his best. Well I hope he wins big against Hunt and proves to be a great PM. You'll all eat your words then. smile.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 13 2019, 05:02 PM

QUOTE(Gay Rights @ Jul 13 2019, 05:53 PM) *
I feel very sorry for Boris. Since the leadership election started he's had people mud-slinging and criticising non-stop yet he's still there doing his best. Well I hope he wins big against Hunt and proves to be a great PM. You'll all eat your words then. smile.gif

If he didn’t lie so much, he wouldn’t leave himself open to attack.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 13 2019, 07:09 PM

QUOTE(Gay Rights @ Jul 13 2019, 05:53 PM) *
I feel very sorry for Boris. Since the leadership election started he's had people mud-slinging and criticising non-stop yet he's still there doing his best. Well I hope he wins big against Hunt and proves to be a great PM. You'll all eat your words then. smile.gif


Feel sorry for his wives and his illegitimate children that he ignores. not BJ. He doesn't feel sorry for them, so I don't feel sorry for him remotely, he wanted the job more than anything in his life and is prepared to do and say anything to get it..

People can't change who they are, all they can do is try and hide it for a while if they fail to learn from their mistakes. The man's a serial liar, a serial adulterer, a journalist who made stuff up and got sacked for it, a man who hasn't read his briefs in any of the jobs he does, he's just lazy and uses "humour" to avoid answering any questions on why he lies all the time. He's not funny and his laidback amiable persona has never fooled me for a second. A fart in a spacesuit, now that's funny. Him being PM is going to be a bit like like a 5-year fart in a spacesuit with no fresh oxygen in the tank. Or 5 weeks. Could go either way.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 16 2019, 06:50 AM

Our next PM has criticised Trump saying you can't talk about sending people "back to where you came from".

No, what you do is say nothing while your previous PM actually rounds them up and send British Empire citizens who have paid tax and rightfully lived in the UK for 50 years "back where they came from".

So, yes, you don't say that at all, you just instead say these sort of things:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

Kettle. Frying Pan. Black arse.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 16 2019, 03:36 PM

QUOTE(Gay Rights @ Jul 13 2019, 05:53 PM) *
I feel very sorry for Boris. Since the leadership election started he's had people mud-slinging and criticising non-stop yet he's still there doing his best. Well I hope he wins big against Hunt and proves to be a great PM. You'll all eat your words then. smile.gif

In his latest article for his fan club's official publication (previously known as the Daily Telegraph), Johnson has said that the best cure for mental health problems is work. Do you still support him?

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jul 16 2019, 03:51 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 16 2019, 04:36 PM) *
In his latest article for his fan club's official publication (previously known as the Daily Telegraph), Johnson has said that the best cure for mental health problems is work. Do you still support him?


Excellent. See you at work Chris! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Brett-Butler Jul 16 2019, 05:15 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 16 2019, 04:36 PM) *
In his latest article for his fan club's official publication (previously known as the Daily Telegraph), Johnson has said that the best cure for mental health problems is work. Do you still support him?


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/19/working-one-day-week-improves-mental-health-study-suggests.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 16 2019, 05:23 PM

In another development, the Fat Lying Blond Thing has indicated that he wants to meet the Fat Lying Orange Thing asap if he becomes PM. I assume that Johnson's team's efforts to cut out the middle man and go straight to boss-man Putin were rebuffed by the Kremlin.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 16 2019, 08:07 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jul 16 2019, 06:15 PM) *
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/19/working-one-day-week-improves-mental-health-study-suggests.


involvement in any social activity, including work, is good for mental health and happiness across the board. The Guardian uses the correct terminology though - "improves" - as opposed to his Royal Ego's professional psychiatric opinion that mental health can be cured by a quick dollop of stuffing people into factories (those that are left) or making them work from home on laptops sat on their own. The Blonde Blob, of course, could do with a couple of years in the military to cure him of his obsessive infidelity, his compulsive lying, his inability to hold a glass of win without spilling, and getting into a roudy loud argument about it with his latest mistress. Sets such a good example for us all.....

PS The suicide rate is high and increasing due to Tory cuts in social services, not due to people not working due to mental illness when they are capable of working. My sister-in-law committed suicide due to severe mental illness, so bad she couldn't bring up her kids, or live on her own. Working as a lollipop lady gave her some degree of self-esteem and happiness in the long medicated battle, but it wasn't a f***ing cure, so Johnson can go f*** himself with his attitude when he is a major contributory factor as soon-to-be-leader of the cutback services Tories. What a complete f***er.

I feel quite strongly about this.

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 16 2019, 10:49 PM

QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jul 16 2019, 04:51 PM) *
Excellent. See you at work Chris! biggrin.gif



Doubt I'll get a job at the Met office so you won't.

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 16 2019, 10:50 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 16 2019, 04:36 PM) *
In his latest article for his fan club's official publication (previously known as the Daily Telegraph), Johnson has said that the best cure for mental health problems is work. Do you still support him?



Yes as in some cases it may be helpful. Each case needs judging on individually.

My GP states that I am a suicide risk so that satisfied my appeal before and hopefully will mean I don't need to go to appeal at next review, maybe next year.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 18 2019, 05:13 PM

To the surprise of nobody with an active brain cell, Johnson has been caught lying again. At a leadership hustings last night, he railed against the rules relating to sending kippers through the post and blamed EU regulations. The rules he referred to were set by the UK government, not the EU.

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 18 2019, 06:24 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 18 2019, 06:13 PM) *
To the surprise of nobody with an active brain cell, Johnson has been caught lying again. At a leadership hustings last night, he railed against the rules relating to sending kippers through the post and blamed EU regulations. The rules he referred to were set by the UK government, not the EU.



Kippers, as in the smoked herring fishy variety that I love and are very good for you, oily fish and Omega 3? Or UKippers? biggrin.gif

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jul 18 2019, 07:39 PM

Former.

He was railing against a regulation set by the Food Standards Agency that says that food products sent by mail should (shockingly) arrive fit for consumption

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 18 2019, 07:43 PM

QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jul 18 2019, 08:39 PM) *
Former.

He was railing against a regulation set by the Food Standards Agency that says that food products sent by mail should (shockingly) arrive fit for consumption



Well they should but as they're smoked they'll be fine as they keep well. Anything smoked does.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jul 18 2019, 07:48 PM

That’s not the thing being debated here tho is it?

Boris Lied. Boris Said that a Regulation regarding the shipment of kippers was “inflicted” upon the UK by the EU when the truth is that the standards in question are UK standards.

That’s before you get to the second element of this not in Suedeys post, the example he was giving was relating to a company on the IoM which applies neither the UK or the EU law because it’s not actually in either of them!!!! And then the third and final thing is that even if it was an EU rule, anyone wanting to export to the EU post-Brexit would still have to comply as good imported for free circulation within the single market have to meet the minimum standards set by the EU. It’s why the nasty meat products from the US aren’t sold anywhere in the EU. They fail to meet basic food standards

Posted by: TheJüpreme Jul 19 2019, 03:00 PM

The last 3 years has just shown that England is a nation with a larger proportion of gullibles & masochists than previously imagined just desperate for someone, anyone, especially someone who sounds powerful and who is white and pompous to tell them what to do.

Authoritarianism...they seem to love it. Even when they're at the bottom! The mind just boggles.

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 19 2019, 09:21 PM

David Davis is in talks with Boris Johnson over a Cabinet comeback, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.

The former Brexit secretary is understood to be in line for either Chancellor or Foreign Secretary after telling Mr Johnson he would not settle for a lesser Cabinet role. The Telegraph understands the pair have been in contact in recent days.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 19 2019, 09:24 PM

QUOTE(Trump2020 @ Jul 19 2019, 10:21 PM) *
David Davis is in talks with Boris Johnson over a Cabinet comeback, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.

The former Brexit secretary is understood to be in line for either Chancellor or Foreign Secretary after telling Mr Johnson he would not settle for a lesser Cabinet role. The Telegraph understands the pair have been in contact in recent days.

Yes, but it is likely that the number of people Johnson has promised the Foreign Office of Number 11 is significantly greater than two. By this time next week, there will probably be a lot of Tory MPs who feel let down by the fat, lying blond thing.

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 19 2019, 09:25 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 19 2019, 10:24 PM) *
Yes, but it is likely that the number of people Johnson has promised the Foreign Office of Number 11 is significantly greater than two. By this time next week, there will probably be a lot of Tory MPs who feel let down by the fat, lying blond thing.



You certainly don't like him do you? sad.gif

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 19 2019, 09:25 PM

From The Telegraph:

Mr Davis, 70, who was the first leaver to quit the government last summer in protest at Theresa May’s Chequers deal, has emerged as a late contender for one of the top jobs in the new administration being assembled this weekend in the hope Mr Johnson will be announced as the next Prime Minister on Tuesday.

The former Brexit secretary is understood to be in line for either Chancellor or Foreign Secretary after telling Mr Johnson he would not settle for a lesser Cabinet role. The Telegraph understands the pair have been in contact in recent days.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid had been regarded as the front-runner for the top Treasury job but insiders say the remainer “has not done enough” to support Mr Johnson’s campaign. There is also rising speculation around a ‘dream team’ appointment of Health Secretary Matt Hancock as Chancellor, with leading Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg as his sidekick in the role of Chief Secretary to the Treasury.

Jeremy Hunt, the Foreign Secretary, is expected to be badly defeated by Mr Johnson when the result of the Conservative leadership election is announced in three day’s time. Mr Hunt is expected to stay in the Cabinet but might lose his plum Foreign Office job. He had been tipped for deputy Prime Minister but Brexiteers are pushing for former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith to take on that role.

Posted by: TheJüpreme Jul 19 2019, 10:26 PM

Does it matter which of them takes which job? They're all the same model with different faces - rich, wrinkly, heartless and selfish to the point of no return, and pompous and lazy to boot.

Kick them all out or cut their wages down to nothing please. They don't do jack shit but make people miserable.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 20 2019, 09:12 AM

Wow! What could go wrong - promoting all the morons to the top jobs. Those who insisted a Brexit would be the easiest deal in history - and then failed to provide it, and all bailed out so they can prove it was the hardest trade deal in history (due to them being thick as two planks, and lying reality-deniers). Dumbing down, to the dumbest motherloving dumb motherlovers who constantly prove how dumb the lying two-faced hypocrites are. I mean, you'd have to be dumb to believe a word the dumb lying fools say.

Just when I think the Tory Party couldn't sink any lower they see it as a challenge to prove me wrong, and lower the bar until only a slithering snake could possibly get under the bar - and even then it would have to be a snake that hadn't eaten for a year and had it's eyes removed so it had no idea of what was ahead, and undergone a lobotomy so it couldn't understand a thing about what or why it was doing what it was doing.

The 2020's will make the austerity 2010's look like the good old days at this rate, bar a general election that wipes the Tory Party from the face of the political planet.

Still, have a nice day everyone!


Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 20 2019, 12:31 PM

QUOTE(Trump2020 @ Jul 19 2019, 10:25 PM) *
You certainly don't like him do you? sad.gif

I don't like liars. I certainly don't like people who lie to further their own career. I like them even less when I know that their decisions, having lied their way to the top, will affect my life. Given that, why would I like Boris Johnson?

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 21 2019, 03:01 PM

Chancellor Philip Hammond confirmed to Andrew Marr on BBC1 this morning that he will be tender his resignation to PM Theresa May before the new PM is named on Tuesday. Several others including the Justice secretary are expected to do the same either tomorrow or early Tuesday.

Jumping before he's pushed by Boris then!

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 21 2019, 03:10 PM

The winner of the Tory leadership contest will be named at tea-time on Tuesday but unusually won't take over as PM until Wednesday afternoon. This is to allow PM Theresa May to do her last PMQ's on Wednesday lunchtime then go to see The Queen to offer her resignation formally, followed by the winner of the Tory leadership. The new PM will address the nation from outside 10, Downing St, weather permitting, at 5pm on Wednesday. No doubt we'll all be watching on TV or listening on radio.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 21 2019, 03:11 PM

Or cos he can now organise MP's to stop a massive catastrophe to the nation. Blojo reportedly went white as a sheet when the behind the scenes folk told him to expect civil unrest in the event of a No Deal - priorities in order: vital medicine/NHS emergency equipment/fresh food, then everything else.

These are the people in government, not the non-opposition, not Remainers being gloomy.

Still, civil unrest should get rid of the Tories forever if it happens.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 21 2019, 05:13 PM

QUOTE(Trump2020 @ Jul 21 2019, 04:10 PM) *
The winner of the Tory leadership contest will be named at tea-time on Tuesday but unusually won't take over as PM until Wednesday afternoon. This is to allow PM Theresa May to do her last PMQ's on Wednesday lunchtime then go to see The Queen to offer her resignation formally, followed by the winner of the Tory leadership. The new PM will address the nation from outside 10, Downing St, weather permitting, at 5pm on Wednesday. No doubt we'll all be watching on TV or listening on radio.

May had to wait a day or two before taking over as well, as did Gordon Brown.

As for the statement outside No 10, I can name at least one person who won't be watching.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jul 21 2019, 05:44 PM

I’d rather claw my eyes out with a rusty fork than watch his press conference

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 21 2019, 06:36 PM

QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jul 21 2019, 06:44 PM) *
I’d rather claw my eyes out with a rusty fork than watch his press conference



I hope he promises again that we leave the EU for certain on 31st October.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 21 2019, 07:38 PM

How quaint, there's someone who still believes a Johnson promise is actually worth something.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 22 2019, 07:11 AM

just a reminder of the major promises Blojo and his forthcoming cabinet made 3 years ago:

https://infacts.org/cut-keep-list-top-19-brexiteer-promises/

Actual promises kept?

None. They now try to make it clear that everyone knew they were lying about their promises and so they must deliver on the lies that everyone knew they were lying about.

Why on Earth would anyone believe anything any of them claim? Liars gotta lie, it's what they do.

Posted by: Rooney Jul 22 2019, 04:49 PM

QUOTE(Trump2020 @ Jul 21 2019, 04:10 PM) *
The winner of the Tory leadership contest will be named at tea-time on Tuesday but unusually won't take over as PM until Wednesday afternoon. This is to allow PM Theresa May to do her last PMQ's on Wednesday lunchtime then go to see The Queen to offer her resignation formally, followed by the winner of the Tory leadership. The new PM will address the nation from outside 10, Downing St, weather permitting, at 5pm on Wednesday. No doubt we'll all be watching on TV or listening on radio.


And another Minister resigned today.

All we're going to see happening is exactly what happened with the ERG. There's going to be a group of about 10-15 backbenchers who can rebel against any whips Boris may try and put in place. There's going to be a very slim majority soon and I've no doubt someone might try and force a General Election. Of course Boris could get in to bed with The Brexit Party and probably win a majority, but then you basically kill the Tory Party by doing that.

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 23 2019, 07:45 AM

BBC1 from 11am for the result live.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jul 23 2019, 11:12 AM

Well, the inevitable has happened.

I feel like one of my worst nightmares has been realised.

Posted by: Iz~ Jul 23 2019, 11:14 AM

I have hoped for years that we would never have had to see Prime Minister Johnson. The worst of lazy arrogant posh incompetence is now leading our country. May it not be for long.

and of course, please dig out this quote at every opportunity:

QUOTE
They voted for Tony, and yet they now get Gordon, and a transition about as democratically proper as the transition from Claudius to Nero. It is a scandal. Why are we all conniving in this stitch-up?

Posted by: coi Jul 23 2019, 11:16 AM

Predictably it wasn't even close, Boris finished with 92,153 votes and Jeremy Hunt with 46,656.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 23 2019, 11:22 AM

I’m so glad I’m on holiday and can distract myself from this horror.

Posted by: blacksquare Jul 23 2019, 11:24 AM

QUOTE(Iz~ @ Jul 23 2019, 12:14 PM) *
I have hoped for years that we would never have had to see Prime Minister Johnson. The worst of lazy arrogant posh incompetence is now leading our country. May it not be for long.


More confirmation that we live in a world where continued incompetence is rewarded. Hellish.

I dread to think of Boris and Trump together. I dread to think about Boris and a No Deal UK being dependent on the US — especially with Trump doubling down on racism and lunacy for his reelection campaign.


Posted by: Chez Wombat Jul 23 2019, 11:26 AM



Yay our prime minister!


Can't wait to be embarrassed on a worldwide scale from him representing us, I don't believe for a second he'll do anything of worth in regards to Brexit or otherwise except divide the country further, but doesn't matter cos he's so funneh and kewl right?

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 23 2019, 12:15 PM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Jul 23 2019, 12:24 PM) *
More confirmation that we live in a world where continued incompetence is rewarded. Hellish.

I dread to think of Boris and Trump together. I dread to think about Boris and a No Deal UK being dependent on the US — especially with Trump doubling down on racism and lunacy for his reelection campaign.


Two power-mad selfish twats. What could go wrong?

At least Hunt decided we do need naval support from Europe, as opposed to being the cannon-fodder for Trump's navy, re Iran. Wonder how long Hunt will last...

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 23 2019, 01:01 PM

Up and down the country, teachers and parents are in despair. How do you tell children that lying is wrong when they can just point to the fact that two of the biggest liars around are in No. 10 and the White House?

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jul 23 2019, 01:12 PM

We could have avoided what happened today, if only somebody had thought to cut that zip wire when he was on it - sending him crashing face first into a tree at high velocity.

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 23 2019, 01:44 PM

Go Boris. cheer.gif

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 23 2019, 01:46 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jul 23 2019, 02:12 PM) *
We could have avoided what happened today, if only somebody had thought to cut that zip wire when he was on it - sending him crashing face first into a tree at high velocity.



That was all set-up. Someone on it was told so by one of the operators. All a publicity stunt but a good fun one. Shows our new PM is game for a laugh.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 23 2019, 02:03 PM

Yeah, the most important thing right now is that our prime minister is game for a laugh.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jul 23 2019, 02:08 PM

QUOTE(Trump2020 @ Jul 23 2019, 02:46 PM) *
That was all set-up. Someone on it was told so by one of the operators. All a publicity stunt but a good fun one. Shows our new PM is game for a laugh.


Like I said, it'd have been more of a laugh if someone had cut the zip wire.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 23 2019, 02:18 PM

QUOTE(Trump2020 @ Jul 23 2019, 02:44 PM) *
Go Boris. cheer.gif

Yes, go. The sooner the better.

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 23 2019, 02:57 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 23 2019, 03:18 PM) *
Yes, go. The sooner the better.



LOL. rotf.gif

Posted by: Bré Jul 23 2019, 03:00 PM

That vote was actually closer than I assumed it would be. Both options were horrendous though so even if Hunt had somehow won it'd hardly be worth celebrating.

Posted by: Trump2020 Jul 23 2019, 03:19 PM

Boris is meeting the 1922 Committee right now and got a rapturous welcome from Tory MP's. What's all this about a mass rebellion then?

Donald Trump's said he'll be a great PM.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jul 23 2019, 03:23 PM

QUOTE(Trump2020 @ Jul 23 2019, 04:19 PM) *
Donald Trump's said he'll be a great PM.


Well of f***ing COURSE he would say that, wouldn't he? That's very much in Captain Obvious territory. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: mald487 Jul 23 2019, 03:27 PM

QUOTE(Trump2020)
Donald Trump's said he'll be a great PM.


laugh.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 23 2019, 03:37 PM

QUOTE(Trump2020 @ Jul 23 2019, 04:19 PM) *
Boris is meeting the 1922 Committee right now and got a rapturous welcome from Tory MP's. What's all this about a mass rebellion then?

Donald Trump's said he'll be a great PM.

Every new leader gets a rapturous response, This is a non-story.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 23 2019, 03:45 PM

Yeah, rapturous applause means we’ll be ok. Definitely no kind of rebellion. Reminds me of something...

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