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 Man, 78, arrested over fatal stabbing of suspected burglar |
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 6th April 2018, 01:55 PM
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#41
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,683 User: 3,272 
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 6 2018, 02:40 PM)  There's a difference between 'fine as it is' and 'popular with people who subscribe to the notion of a person's home being their castle', though. Its yet another of those laws that are on the statute books, but would be unlikely to receive a majority of popular support. I don't care. Laws are made by parliament. That way we avoid mob rule. Perhaps tabloid journalists might change their tune after a few of their number have been killed while out doorstepping. That might make them rethink their support for vigilantism. |
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6th April 2018, 02:05 PM
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#42
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 Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,125 User: 3,474
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Your definition is legal in America. I invite you to travel there and see how long you last against an armed intruder x
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6th April 2018, 02:22 PM
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#43
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Apr 6 2018, 02:55 PM) I don't care. Laws are made by parliament. That way we avoid mob rule. Perhaps tabloid journalists might change their tune after a few of their number have been killed while out doorstepping. That might make them rethink their support for vigilantism. If they were Daily Mail journalists, I'd ask certain members of this group where they were at the time...  QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Apr 6 2018, 03:05 PM) Your definition is legal in America. I invite you to travel there and see how long you last against an armed intruder x I know it is. But that's not how it works - if intruders know they're likely to get the contents of a 12-gauge up the ass, they won't risk it! Re the above : Defensive gun use - USA https://www.reddit.com/r/dgu/ This post has been edited by vidcapper: 6th April 2018, 02:31 PM |
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6th April 2018, 03:38 PM
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#44
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,683 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 6 2018, 03:22 PM) If they were Daily Mail journalists, I'd ask certain members of this group where they were at the time... I know it is. But that's not how it works - if intruders know they're likely to get the contents of a 12-gauge up the ass, they won't risk it! Re the above : Defensive gun use - USA https://www.reddit.com/r/dgu/ And you end up with nut jobs getting away with shooting unarmed black teenagers. |
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6th April 2018, 05:27 PM
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#45
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,683 User: 3,272
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No further action is to be taken against the man in this week's incident. Given what has been reported, that is not exactly a surprise. However, as a believer in justice, I'm glad it went through due process rather than the police believing every word without question.
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6th April 2018, 06:27 PM
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#46
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,865 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 6 2018, 03:22 PM) If they were Daily Mail journalists, I'd ask certain members of this group where they were at the time... I know it is. But that's not how it works - if intruders know they're likely to get the contents of a 12-gauge up the ass, they won't risk it! Re the above : Defensive gun use - USA https://www.reddit.com/r/dgu/ ...and it doesnt work. Still waiting for you to give me evidence supporting your woolly claims. |
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7th April 2018, 05:33 AM
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#47
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Apr 6 2018, 04:38 PM) And you end up with nut jobs getting away with shooting unarmed black teenagers. Are you talking about US police here? QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Apr 6 2018, 06:27 PM) No further action is to be taken against the man in this week's incident. Given what has been reported, that is not exactly a surprise. However, as a believer in justice, I'm glad it went through due process rather than the police believing every word without question. Since we agree on this, why have we been arguing for dyas? QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Apr 6 2018, 07:27 PM) ...and it doesnt work. Still waiting for you to give me evidence supporting your woolly claims. That URL *was* the evidence I presented - if you reject it, that's your prerogative, but in that case there's no point asking for more, which would be very similar. |
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7th April 2018, 09:14 AM
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#48
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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You provided no evidence at all. You provided reports on opinion.
If you can't tell the difference between the two here's a helpful guide: Opinion: 1. a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. "that, in my opinion, is right" synonyms: belief, judgement, thought(s), school of thought, thinking, way of thinking, mind, point of view, view, viewpoint, outlook, angle, slant, side, attitude, stance, perspective, position, standpoint; More Fact: a thing that is known or proved to be true. "the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas" synonyms: reality, actuality, certainty, factuality, certitude; More If you google the meaning of a word you get multiple definitions from lots of sources. Fun fact, not opinion. |
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7th April 2018, 09:43 AM
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#49
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Apr 7 2018, 10:14 AM) You provided no evidence at all. You provided reports on opinion. All I can give you is what I believe supports my position - whether you believe it does or not makes no difference to me.  |
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7th April 2018, 09:47 AM
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#50
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 I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 5 2018, 10:37 AM) Which is why I advocate extending the definition of self-defence to include defence of property as well as person - it would not *be* murder then. Property is not as valuable as life. This is not a difficult concept. |
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7th April 2018, 10:16 AM
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#51
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Apr 7 2018, 10:47 AM) Property is not as valuable as life. This is not a difficult concept. Even the life of a career criminal scumbag? |
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7th April 2018, 10:27 AM
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#52
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 7 2018, 06:33 AM) Are you talking about US police here? Since we agree on this, why have we been arguing for dyas? No, I'm tsalking about this case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trayvon_Martin I refer you to my first comments on the matter. QUOTE That depends on what happens. An arrest in circumstances like this is standard practice, partly because it grants the suspect additional rights. If the burglar was stabbed with the screwdriver, I suspect there will be no charges against the householder. We have to assume that the post-mortem supported the pensioner's story, i.e. presumably his wounds were caused by the screwdriver. The argument seemed to be over whether we should bother with old-fashioned concepts such as evidence or whether the words "self-defence" should be a way of closing an investigation down immediately. I am, of course, still waiting for an example from the last 15 years where you think the current self-defence laws have not worked. |
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7th April 2018, 11:18 AM
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#53
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Apr 7 2018, 11:27 AM) No, I'm tsalking about this case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trayvon_Martin I refer you to my first comments on the matter. That *was* the case I thought you were referring to, only I didn't realise wasn't a cop.  QUOTE We have to assume that the post-mortem supported the pensioner's story, i.e. presumably his wounds were caused by the screwdriver. The argument seemed to be over whether we should bother with old-fashioned concepts such as evidence or whether the words "self-defence" should be a way of closing an investigation down immediately. I am, of course, still waiting for an example from the last 15 years where you think the current self-defence laws have not worked. That seems like a rhetorical question to me, as you wouldn't have picked that 15 year time limit otherwise. The fact that you specifically excluded the Tony Martin case suggests that didn't think the self-defence laws worked in his case? |
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7th April 2018, 11:33 AM
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#54
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,683 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 7 2018, 12:18 PM) That *was* the case I thought you were referring to, only I didn't realise wasn't a cop. That seems like a rhetorical question to me, as you wouldn't have picked that 15 year time limit otherwise. The fact that you specifically excluded the Tony Martin case suggests that didn't think the self-defence laws worked in his case? As I said before, I specifically excluded it on the grounds that, if a near 20-year-old case is the best you can do, the law is generally working well. It should be remembered that, in the Tony Martin case, i) He deliberately withheld some evidence form the original trial. It was only after he disclosed that evidence that he was able to get the verdict changed to one of manslaughter. ii) The jury heard all the evidence rather than just the parts the press chose to report. They convicted him. |
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7th April 2018, 11:35 AM
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#55
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,128 User: 18,639
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What defines a criminal?
Laws are arbitrary. To kill someone based off breaking an arbitrary law is barbaric and alt right. |
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7th April 2018, 11:38 AM
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#56
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 7 2018, 11:16 AM) Even the life of a career criminal scumbag? This is so alt right I can't even. By the wat, it I worked America would have 0 home invasions. Oh wait. It is a deeply insecure county. Does anyone have the ACTUAL % and jot some silly opinion pieces? I bet it is no lower and probably higher. |
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7th April 2018, 12:51 PM
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#57
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,865 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 7 2018, 10:43 AM) All I can give you is what I believe supports my position - whether you believe it does or not makes no difference to me. It just shows your opinion on something that is factually incorrect and has proven to be factually incorrect is worthless... As Ive said before you can believe pink elephants fly if you want to, but that still doesn't make it so. Harsher laws have no bearing on crime rates. Having enough police officers who do their job properly do... |
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7th April 2018, 01:47 PM
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#58
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Apr 7 2018, 01:51 PM) It just shows your opinion on something that is factually incorrect and has proven to be factually incorrect is worthless... Not to me. |
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7th April 2018, 02:31 PM
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#59
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Queef of Peace @ Apr 7 2018, 12:38 PM) This is so alt right I can't even. If only I could render you speechless more often. Seriously though, can you give me *any* reason why the life of a 'career criminal scumbag' should be considered to have the same value as a law-abiding member of the community? [That is intended as a serious question] |
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7th April 2018, 03:04 PM
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#60
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,128 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 7 2018, 03:31 PM) If only I could render you speechless more often. Seriously though, can you give me *any* reason why the life of a 'career criminal scumbag' should be considered to have the same value as a law-abiding member of the community? [That is intended as a serious question] Laws are man-made and arbitrary. We ALL have a UNIVERSAL right to life. That ends the discussion. They are family to someone. We have no right to kill anyone. |
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