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> The lovely discussion of all things EU and/or Brexit, Part V
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Suedehead2
post Aug 10 2019, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE(TheJŁpreme @ Aug 10 2019, 11:29 AM) *
I don't know if any of you saw this but there was a Sky poll a while back that showed something like 30% of voters think 'No Deal Brexit' means to cancel the whole thing and keep the status quo.

I honestly think these buzzwords are a huge part of the problem. I mean, 'Brexit' itself sounds so much easier than 'the negotiation for the UK to leabe the European Union trading zone and rules', but the second one os what it actually is, while the first is just essentially a catchphrase.

There have been several polls showing a lot of people failing to understand what the term "No deal" means. A lot of people seem to think that it will mean things carry on exactly as before.
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December Dong
post Aug 10 2019, 12:33 PM
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Perhaps a SHORT, a week tops, no deal is exactly what the doctod ordered for Lil Englanders? They'll see precisely why being in the EU is a hood thing from a travel and economic prospective. The £ will crash so much we'd likely just rejoin with the Euro this time!
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Santa Klaus
post Aug 10 2019, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE(dandy* @ Aug 9 2019, 10:57 PM) *
Whilst I do think this is true for some, it saddens me that many people actually think f*** all will happen and everything will magically be okay despite seemingly us being unable to even negotiate an acceptable deal.

Honestly people don't realise how much of our community and services are run by people with talent from outside of the UK. They can blindly think they are stealing their jobs or whatever but from my experience the UK applicants are largely shite by comparison.

oh I certainly agree, but I feel at least part of the belief that all will be completely fine comes from the fact that they voted for it and therefore they couldn't possibly be wrong
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Harve
post Aug 10 2019, 02:17 PM
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We should also remember that a large proportion of Leave voters are comfortably retired people who are shielded from most economic consequences, so it's little wonder they love no deal.

I can't find the poll I originally read explaining this, but I found another:

QUOTE
The survey also questioned respondents about their own personal financial situation, asking them how easy they find to manage financially. Among Leave voters of every type it was noticeable that those with a worse personal financial situation were more likely to be worried about the economic impact of no-deal and less likely to want it. Preference for no-deal is disproportionately favoured by Leave voters best positioned to weather any economic impact.


Those who personally have financially difficulties are much less likely to be enthusiastic about No Deal and less likely to dismiss its economic consequences, but this is only a minority of 2019 Leave voters (many have already switched since 2016 - look at where the biggest swings are) so this does little to shape the views of the cohort overall.

Another recent poll revealed that Tory -> BXP switchers in the May 2019 elections had a higher income than Tory -> LD switchers, which runs contrary to the classic elite, out-of-touch Remain voter narrative.


This post has been edited by Harve: Aug 10 2019, 02:18 PM
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December Dong
post Aug 11 2019, 01:28 PM
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Ah not a sight of a single right wing troll since the socialist of the seet came back! This is like Trump FLEEING from Bernie all over again!

Y'all are welcome x
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blacksquare
post Aug 14 2019, 11:25 AM
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So John Bercow has said he won't allow proroguing parliament to happen, which of course has created a frenzy amongst the Brexiteers. Ironically, he's doing exactly what they're supposedly fighting for and attempting to uphold the principles of democracy and protecting parliamentary sovereignty. It's almost as if they're all giant hypocrites who don't actually care, or even know what they want.

Philip Hammond also coming under fire this morning. Christ.


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Suedehead2
post Aug 14 2019, 01:18 PM
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If only people on both sides of the argument had faced that sort of questioning in the referendum campaign.
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Rooney
post Aug 14 2019, 11:28 PM
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Ah so looks like Jezza will agree to a 2nd Referendum if the other parties put in him to power.

Can't see it happening, but if Corbyn wants to fight for a soft Brexit/ Remain now then he needs to get his act together sharpish. Thing is I feel this could actually work if someone more centric was leading the Labour Party.
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blacksquare
post Aug 15 2019, 08:47 AM
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Aug 15 2019, 12:28 AM) *
Ah so looks like Jezza will agree to a 2nd Referendum if the other parties put in him to power.

Can't see it happening, but if Corbyn wants to fight for a soft Brexit/ Remain now then he needs to get his act together sharpish. Thing is I feel this could actually work if someone more centric was leading the Labour Party.


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Tawdry Hepburn
post Aug 15 2019, 09:48 AM
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That man lives in cloud cuckoo land, still prioritising a general election over the one thing that could really win him favour right now.

It's so frustrating as he is the person in the best position to do something about this. But then when it comes down to it, he actually wants Brexit to happen so...
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Harve
post Aug 15 2019, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Aug 15 2019, 10:48 AM) *
That man lives in cloud cuckoo land, still prioritising a general election over the one thing that could really win him favour right now.

It's so frustrating as he is the person in the best position to do something about this. But then when it comes down to it, he actually wants Brexit to happen so...

There's no majority for a referendum in this parliament so a general election has to come first.


This post has been edited by Harve: Aug 15 2019, 11:10 AM
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December Dong
post Aug 15 2019, 11:20 AM
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The Fib Dems rejecting it proves what I've been saying all along! Yellow Tory CHANCERS. They prefer the neoliberal Tories as they ARE a neoliberal party. They are just paying lib service to stopping a Tory brexshit. If they were serious, they would have supported our man of rhe people.
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Holly and Izzy
post Aug 15 2019, 11:39 AM
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Or maybe they don't want to ruin their base and the vast number of non-lefties they've managed to win over by supporting Corbyn. A caretaker government or a government of national unity shouldn't be led by a partisan figure, particularly not one with such a chequered history on the issue. It'd be (quite rightly) seen as a coup to get Labour in by the back door over and above any aim of stopping Brexit and, well... that's not the Lib Dem agenda and no one should expect it to be.

I don't expect they will ever support Johnson either. They're quite happy at the moment mopping up the saner arm of the Tory Party.
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Holly and Izzy
post Aug 15 2019, 11:42 AM
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With regards to the stop Brexit at any cost line, they'll help bring down the government, they'll fight their issue in a general election and perhaps then, if Labour/Corbyn really are fighting their cause on stopping Brexit and the maths works out okay, they'll do it, but most likely only confidence and supply. Seeing as coalition is a poison word for some godforsaken reason.

which is different to what's being proposed here.
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December Dong
post Aug 15 2019, 11:46 AM
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So it's lip service. The only reason the neolib dems are hoovering up sane Tories is because of Brexshit. If they refuse to help Corbyn stop it, it is lip service.
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Suedehead2
post Aug 15 2019, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE(Algernon Monqueef @ Aug 15 2019, 12:20 PM) *
The Fib Dems rejecting it proves what I've been saying all along! Yellow Tory CHANCERS. They prefer the neoliberal Tories as they ARE a neoliberal party. They are just paying lib service to stopping a Tory brexshit. If they were serious, they would have supported our man of rhe people.

The Lib Dems are simply avoiding wasting time pursuing something that isn't going to happen. An alternative government won't be formed without the support of some Tories. That rules out a Corbyn-led administration. It is far better to spend the limited time available garnering support for a more realistic potential leader.
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December Dong
post Aug 15 2019, 02:17 PM
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And yet the Tory rebels are interested? It's lunacy to reject this and to reject the leader of the opposition as the natural interim leader. Joe Swinson, a full yellow Tory, doesn't choose the Labour leader. That's for the people to decide. And we decided: Corbyn. We decided twice.

So a few months with Corbyn is unacceptable to her, but 5 years ofenabling the Tories and neoliberal austerity was all fine and dandy? Seeing as her price for that was a minister job, I'm sure Corbyn could match the payment
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Suedehead2
post Aug 15 2019, 03:30 PM
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Which potential Tory rebels have given any indication that they would support a short-term Corbyn-led government?
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Rooney
post Aug 15 2019, 04:20 PM
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The Lib Dems just donít like Corbyn and Iím sure the feeling is mutual. Problem is, I can see whatís going to happen a mile off in any general election when Labour donít get a majority. Lib Demís will only agree to a partnership with Labour if Corbyn stands down.
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December Dong
post Aug 15 2019, 05:00 PM
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Lib Dems have been torpedoed tosay, abandoning their flagship policy in favour of the Tories. It's 2010 all over again! Not to be trusted.
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