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French Presidential Election 2022

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Steve201 View member profile	14th May 2022, 03:45 PM Post #41
Shakin Stevens Joined: 29 December 2007 Posts: 46,168 User: 5,138	I don’t follow the French system much is it just like America so the elections in June will be like voting in the Senate?


Iz 🌟 View member profile	20th June 2022, 09:32 AM Post #42
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,426 User: 12,929	Melenchon and his left alliance makes huge gains in the French parliamentary election Up to 131 seats and causes Macron's party to lose their majority. And as usual the 'left-wing' Guardian is focused on how this puts Macron's right-wing government on the ropes and calls the biggest surprise of the night Le Pen's RN gaining 89 seats. Wouldn't matter if you go into coalition with the left and actually DO THINGS FOR ONCE would it. most likely conclusion is Macron will have to give concessions to the right-leaning Republicains to pass legislation (that's what the parliament of France is for, the legislation, it's probably more important than the presidential race overall for France's domestic future). anyway 2027 will be a very interesting year for France also this is a fun piece of data regarding centrists demanding moral votes from the left in every election ever:


Harve View member profile	20th June 2022, 03:53 PM Post #43
Cœur poids plume Joined: 3 November 2007 Posts: 18,132 User: 4,718	Honestly the far right doing so well is probably the biggest story - and surprise - of this so I think it's legitimate to focus on it. Even if it doesn't affect the parliamentary arithmetic so much, it has worrying implications for the next elections as it seems that the 'republican front' (partisans ranging from the hard left to the centre right going out of their way to vote anyone to block the far right) has fallen apart. For voters, today's polls show that every part of the political spectrum is responsible for abstaining where the FN reached the second round - or a minority voting for the FN - but for politicians it's certainly Macron's party that I blame for the most egregious cases of equating the hard left with the far right and refusing to endorse the former. Also NUPES is an electoral alliance but not a parliamentary grouping and haven't really committed to working together once in parliament, so if the prime minister chose to lean left to pass legislation, then she could pick off the smaller, more moderate groupings such as the Greens and the Socialists. This post has been edited by Harve: 20th June 2022, 03:59 PM


Doctor Blind View member profile	20th June 2022, 04:06 PM Post #44
#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue' Joined: 27 October 2008 Posts: 16,173 User: 7,561	Isn't part of the reason that the far right ended up doing anomalously well was because of Macron asking supporters to abstain in NUPES v National Rally runoffs. Centrism= useful idiots A similar example from UK politics is the Lib Dems and 'The Independent Group' voting against compromise proposals for Brexit that would have passed a much softer Brexit deal.


Smint View member profile	20th June 2022, 10:37 PM Post #45
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 21 February 2021 Posts: 3,578 User: 124,514	To be fair, if you are talking about those indicative votes boycotted by the Cabinet, they had no standing whatsoever and there wasn't a snowflakes chance in hell that Teresa May would have allowed anything less than an exit from Single Market and Customs Union. That said I was disgusted with Jo Swinson for refusing to work with Corbyn when he finally came around to a second referendum. I'd like to think the Lib Dems would never team up with the Tories (well especially the ones we have now). This post has been edited by Smint: 20th June 2022, 10:43 PM


Iz 🌟 View member profile	21st June 2022, 08:15 AM Post #46
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,426 User: 12,929	QUOTE(Harve @ Jun 20 2022, 03:53 PM) Honestly the far right doing so well is probably the biggest story - and surprise - of this so I think it's legitimate to focus on it. Even if it doesn't affect the parliamentary arithmetic so much, it has worrying implications for the next elections as it seems that the 'republican front' (partisans ranging from the hard left to the centre right going out of their way to vote anyone to block the far right) has fallen apart. For voters, today's polls show that every part of the political spectrum is responsible for abstaining where the FN reached the second round - or a minority voting for the FN - but for politicians it's certainly Macron's party that I blame for the most egregious cases of equating the hard left with the far right and refusing to endorse the former. Also NUPES is an electoral alliance but not a parliamentary grouping and haven't really committed to working together once in parliament, so if the prime minister chose to lean left to pass legislation, then she could pick off the smaller, more moderate groupings such as the Greens and the Socialists. Quite worrying, for sure. I hope that it's the case that the RN politicians will now make fools of themselves, but unless Macron's PM can get a decent deal with parts of NUPES, then they'll probably be even stronger in the next election. I didn't see those stats, that's unfortunate, but there's not much love lost either way.


Harve View member profile	21st June 2022, 08:28 AM Post #47
Cœur poids plume Joined: 3 November 2007 Posts: 18,132 User: 4,718	QUOTE(Smint @ Jun 21 2022, 12:37 AM) To be fair, if you are talking about those indicative votes boycotted by the Cabinet, they had no standing whatsoever and there wasn't a snowflakes chance in hell that Teresa May would have allowed anything less than an exit from Single Market and Customs Union. That said I was disgusted with Jo Swinson for refusing to work with Corbyn when he finally came around to a second referendum. I'd like to think the Lib Dems would never team up with the Tories (well especially the ones we have now). I know this isn't the place to relitigate 2019 but even if any kind of softer Brexit was provisionally agreed with the help of a united, compromising opposition, and the May government agreed to it, it would have been immediately followed by the current Tory establishment removing the 2016-2019 government from power before it would have been able to have been enacted. Forget the divisions that the opposition had in 2019 - only the Tory party's views mattered as they were ready and able to tank the government any time they liked, ultimately. This post has been edited by Harve: 21st June 2022, 08:30 AM


Smint View member profile	21st June 2022, 12:06 PM Post #48
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 21 February 2021 Posts: 3,578 User: 124,514	Exactly - so whatever we think of Lib Dems and TIG or Change or whatever they called themselves, it was the Tory party arrogance which for such a major change refusing to work with opposition and devolved leaders that lead to this shitshow we are in with regard to Brexit. Re the broader point of centrists not helping out the left, that is depressing but unfortunately the left needs centrists far mroe than centrists need the left as generally centrists can cope better with the damage that the right cause than the left can. Darwinism in action sadly.


Suedehead2 View member profile	22nd June 2022, 07:05 PM Post #49
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,683 User: 3,272	QUOTE(Smint @ Jun 20 2022, 11:37 PM) To be fair, if you are talking about those indicative votes boycotted by the Cabinet, they had no standing whatsoever and there wasn't a snowflakes chance in hell that Teresa May would have allowed anything less than an exit from Single Market and Customs Union. That said I was disgusted with Jo Swinson for refusing to work with Corbyn when he finally came around to a second referendum. I'd like to think the Lib Dems would never team up with the Tories (well especially the ones we have now). The Lib Dems cannot enter a coalition without the consent of party members. The chances of that happening with the current Tory party are roughly the same as the chances of Gary Glitter launching a successful comeback.