Turkish Referendum |
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16th April 2017, 07:19 PM
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#1
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455 |
With 99% of the votes cast, it looks as if Turkey has voted "Yes" to a referendum that will give more power to President Erdogan. From the BBC -
QUOTE The Turkish prime minister has claimed victory in the referendum to grant President Recep Tayyip Erdogan new powers, based on unofficial results. Binali Yildirim was speaking as the count neared completion. With about 99% of ballots counted, "Yes" was on about 51.3% and "No" on about 48.7%. Erdogan supporters say replacing the parliamentary system with an executive presidency would modernise the country. The two main opposition parties are challenging the results. The Republican People's Party (CHP) demanded a recount of 60% of the votes. A "Yes" vote could also see Mr Erdogan remain in office until 2029. The president earlier called the head of the AK Party (AKP) he co-founded and other party leaders to congratulate them on the victory, the Anadolu news agency said. But Deputy Prime Minister Veysi Kaynak admitted the "Yes" votes were lower than expected. About 55 million people were eligible to vote across 167,000 polling stations, and turnout was said to have been high. Three people were shot dead near a polling station in the south-eastern province of Diyarbakir, reportedly during a dispute over how they were voting. How significant are the changes? They would represent the most sweeping programme of constitutional changes since Turkey became a republic almost a century ago. The president would be given vastly enhanced powers to appoint cabinet ministers, issue decrees, choose senior judges and dissolve parliament. The new system would scrap the role of prime minister and concentrate power in the hands of the president, placing all state bureaucracy under his control. What is the case for 'Yes'? A man shows a voting ballot with the words in Turkish that read, 'Evet' or Yes and 'Hayir' or No as people vote in the referendum on expanding the powers of the Turkish president on April 16, 2017 in There is just a simple "Yes" or "No" choice on the ballot Mr Erdogan says the changes are needed to address Turkey's security challenges nine months after an attempted coup, and to avoid the fragile coalition governments of the past. "This public vote is [about]a new governing system in Turkey, a choice about change and transition," he said after casting his vote in Istanbul. The new system, he argues, will resemble those in France and the US and will bring calm in a time of turmoil marked by a Kurdish insurgency, Islamist militancy and conflict in neighbouring Syria, which has led to a huge refugee influx. The referendum, the BBC's Mark Lowen reports, is effectively one on Mr Erdogan and the Turkey he has moulded in his image: fiercely nationalist and conservative. And what about for 'No'? Critics of the proposed changes fear the move would make the president's position too powerful, arguing that it would amount to one-man rule, without the checks and balances of other presidential systems. They say his ability to retain ties to a political party - Mr Erdogan could resume leadership of the AK Party - would end any chance of impartiality. Kemal Kilicdaroglu, leader of the CHP, told a rally in Ankara a "Yes" vote would endanger the country. "We will put 80 million people... on a bus with no brakes," he said. "No" supporters have complained of intimidation during the referendum campaign and that Turkey's highly regulated media has given them little coverage. So, are you excited about President Erdogan consolidating his power over Turkey, or does it represent a new and repressive threat to the stability of Europe? (or some other thoughts - I'm not one to enforce a false dichotomy in this forum). |
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16th April 2017, 08:02 PM
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#2
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,082 User: 3,474 |
Yeah this is really not good. Term limits you'd think will be the next thing to go as Turkey continues to slide into dictatorship.
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17th April 2017, 09:10 AM
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#3
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,151 User: 5,138 |
How is it fair he can appoint judges?!
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17th April 2017, 02:52 PM
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#4
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,832 User: 17,376 |
perfect illustration of how democracies turn into fascist dictatorships at the drop of a hat, people willingly (assuming votes are not wholesale faked) to walk into servitude....
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17th April 2017, 03:38 PM
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#5
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Schlagerdrottningen
Joined: 23 August 2010
Posts: 31,877 User: 11,709 |
This is how Palpatine did it, and we know how THAT ENDED
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17th April 2017, 04:19 PM
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#6
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455 |
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17th April 2017, 04:31 PM
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#7
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,083 User: 18,639 |
What ia up with this trend of referendums passing and making sweeping conatitutional changes even though HALF of the population does not sign up for it??
It should be a 63% - 37% margin minimum for change to be enacted. Forcing these 50-50 referendum razor-thin decisions through is not democracy. It is tryanny by half percents. |
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17th April 2017, 05:16 PM
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#8
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,170 User: 7,561 |
Funny how much changes in just 7 years. |
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17th April 2017, 06:03 PM
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#9
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455 |
What ia up with this trend of referendums passing and making sweeping conatitutional [sic] changes even though HALF of the population does not sign up for it?? It should be a 63% - 37% margin minimum for change to be enacted. Forcing these 50-50 referendum razor-thin decisions through is not democracy. It is tryanny [sic] by half percents. If you enforced a 63% bar on all constitutional referendums, almost no constitutional changes would ever get passed - to quote a more recent example, Ireland's Same-Sex Marriage Referendum would have failed under that as less than 63% voted in favour of it. I didn't particularly like that the EU referendum went the way it did, but that's the way the majority of people voted and I respect that decision. However, in Turkey, there are real questions over whether enough people really did vote in favour, and the result is being challenged by the international community. I don't think this is the last we'll hear of this referendum. |
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17th April 2017, 06:26 PM
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#10
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,083 User: 18,639 |
A majority should not be a percent or two. That disenfranchises HALF the country.
63% and above is way more democratic. Civil rights should not be up for referendums anyway. This post has been edited by RadicalPinkBRÈ!!: 17th April 2017, 06:27 PM |
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17th April 2017, 09:43 PM
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#11
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596 |
Someone's suggestion of 60% being binding and over 50% being advisory for the legislature to examine seems like a fair compromise.
This is bad news, obviously. |
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17th April 2017, 10:07 PM
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#12
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,673 User: 3,272 |
Whether there should be a requirement for more than a simple majority should probably depend on the question being asked. The Irish vote on same sex marriage only directly affected a minority of people whereas the Turkish referendum and our EU vote last year affect the whole population in some way. Therefore, there is a much stronger case for a higher threshold in the latter cases.
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17th April 2017, 10:09 PM
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#13
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,170 User: 7,561 |
Maybe just ditch referendums, because they're awful?
I mean it's not quite as bad as the 50.2/49.8 split when Columbians rejected a landmark peace deal with Farc to end a war that has been ongoing for over half a century, but it is still PRETTY BAD. |
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