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 University course funding |
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 Nov 9 2019, 11:39 PM
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#41
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 21 November 2009
Posts: 8,541 User: 10,030 
  
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University funding should be free. Especially for the future as there will likely be a lot more high-skilled jobs as automation wipes out a lot of low paid labour-based work. Heck even now there are huge amounts of high skilled jobs that are vacant, which is why immigration is so high. It would pay off big time in the long term, as university being free would encourage more to go. There are a lot of valuable skills you can gain which are universal amongst degrees. Critical thinking, time management, working in teams, working independently, adhering to deadlines etc. Unforutnately most governments prioritse the short-term and their party, which usually costs money over the long-term.
This post has been edited by Envoirment: Nov 9 2019, 11:39 PM |
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Nov 9 2019, 11:42 PM
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#42
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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We can't afford for it to be free though. We've elderly people and mentally ill teenagers in hospitals and mental hospitals as there are no places for them in the community. Plus sick and disabled are being found fit for work and having their benefits stopped due to cutbacks. The country has to tighten it's belt. Student loans are fine. If they want further education after 18 then lend them the money and let them pay it back. It's common sense.
This post has been edited by Freddie Kruger: Nov 9 2019, 11:44 PM |
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Nov 10 2019, 02:22 AM
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#43
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 21 November 2009
Posts: 8,541 User: 10,030
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Nov 9 2019, 11:42 PM)  We can't afford for it to be free though. We've elderly people and mentally ill teenagers in hospitals and mental hospitals as there are no places for them in the community. Plus sick and disabled are being found fit for work and having their benefits stopped due to cutbacks. The country has to tighten it's belt. Student loans are fine. If they want further education after 18 then lend them the money and let them pay it back. It's common sense. We can afford it quite easily if the government wants to. Not to mention in the long-term it would be beneficial as you'd have more people in higher paid, higher skilled jobs which would increase tax revenue. The cutbacks to public services are due to the Conservatives' austerity over the last decade which hasn't worked out very well. One thing future governments are going to need to do is raise taxes regardless, likely both income tax, national insurance and stop the freeze on fuel duty. The Brexit mess isn't making things any better either and Brexit itself, regardless of its form, will leave the government with less money for vital services/education etc. They've already spent £billions on no deal preparations and the uncertainty has caused growth to by lower than it otherwise would be. There's no financial reason the government can't make university education free. I mean if they closed off shore tax loopholes and taxed the large corperations properly, particularly large digital companies (Amazon/Facebook/Google etc), that would more than pay for free university education. |
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Nov 10 2019, 02:50 AM
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#44
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 there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,130 User: 22,895 
       
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This is the same country that just spent 100 million pounds on an ad campaign that said 'Get ready for Brexit! Check this website!' which sent anyone who followed the link to an empty website that was under construction.
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Nov 10 2019, 08:36 AM
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#45
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(Envoirment @ Nov 10 2019, 02:22 AM) There's no financial reason the government can't make university education free. I mean if they closed off shore tax loopholes and taxed the large corperations properly, particularly large digital companies (Amazon/Facebook/Google etc), that would more than pay for free university education. Why should it be free though? Why shouldn't students have loans and pay back for their education when they start work? There choice to stay on in to further education. Seems fine to me. There's nothing for nothing in this world. That money can be used for other better services or housing or NHS. This post has been edited by Freddie Kruger: Nov 10 2019, 08:37 AM |
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Nov 10 2019, 09:56 AM
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#46
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,599 User: 177
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Nov 10 2019, 08:36 AM) Why should it be free though? Why shouldn't students have loans and pay back for their education when they start work? There choice to stay on in to further education. Seems fine to me. There's nothing for nothing in this world. That money can be used for other better services or housing or NHS. That’s awfully rich considering that’s exactly what you’ve had for the past 40 years. You’re lacking empathy because you were never a student yourself (which actually, studying is something you could have been doing the last few decades considering you’re apparently unable to work) and besides even if your had gone to university at age 18, you wouldn’t have had tuition fees and your would have received a maintenance GRANT not loan which wouldn’t have had to have been paid back. But I guess you’re right. Young people who have the audacity to want to better themselves should be in debt for years on end. Especially if they’re cheeky enough to want a further education when they don’t have the funds for it. 
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Nov 10 2019, 10:50 AM
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#47
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Nov 10 2019, 09:56 AM) But I guess you’re right. Young people who have the audacity to want to better themselves should be in debt for years on end. Especially if they’re cheeky enough to want a further education when they don’t have the funds for it. It's not a huge debt though, a few thousand. Many people owe that much to loan sharks and the amount students will pay back will only be a tiny fraction of what they earn over a few years. I had this argument with Rachel's friends last time they came as one's started on a fairly high income for a new graduate so has to start paying back straight away. This post has been edited by Freddie Kruger: Nov 10 2019, 10:53 AM |
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Nov 10 2019, 10:57 AM
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#48
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 1 June 2013
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Nov 9 2019, 11:34 PM) Are you a psychiatrist? If not then maybe don't try to diagnose someone you don't even know in real life. Do not get sh*tty with me. It was a genuine attempt to be nice. I know everybodys situation is different, but keeping myself busy and keeping my mind occupied helped me through the darkest period of my depression. No, I'm not a psychiatrist but the above was on the advice of MY Physciatrist and MY doctor, thank you very much. This post has been edited by mald487: Nov 10 2019, 10:58 AM |
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Nov 10 2019, 10:58 AM
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#49
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IncredibleSquirrel
Joined: 8 March 2006
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So many student debts must never get close to being repaid given the size of them, amount earning before starting being paid and interest, that they do seem pointless. I probably won't pay mine off and I graduated before the tuition fee hike so my debt is significantly smaller than people younger than me.
I was happy going to uni knowing it would cost be and aren't bothered by the money that leaves my salary each month, I'd be all for replacing them with a Graduate Tax - just seems to make far more sense to me. |
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Nov 10 2019, 10:59 AM
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#50
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,409 User: 12,929           
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Nov 10 2019, 10:50 AM) It's not a huge debt though, a few thousand. Many people owe that much to loan sharks and the amount students will pay back will only be a tiny fraction of what they earn over a few years. I had this argument with Rachel's friends last time they came as one's started on a fairly high income for a new graduate so has to start paying back straight away. it is a huge debt. They will technically be in debt for the majority of their adult life. A debt they had to take on if they wanted to improve themselves and they were born past a certain cutoff point. I used to be okay with it as 'just another tax' but the truth is it's a social mobility tax, that only the poorer will keep paying if they end up middingly successful. It is wrong and it should be wiped. If society is going to make degrees a necessity for jobs then there needs to be a system by which all can access that. |
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Nov 10 2019, 11:07 AM
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#51
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 1 June 2013
Posts: 527 User: 19,091
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Nov 10 2019, 08:36 AM) Why should it be free though? Why shouldn't students have loans and pay back for their education when they start work? There choice to stay on in to further education. Seems fine to me. There's nothing for nothing in this world. That money can be used for other better services or housing or NHS. Dedicating 3/4 years of your life to study is not something for nothing. We need people in higher education, doctors, lawyers, accountants.....various other degrees also that teach skills that can be applied to numerous jobs which are vital to society. Its very easy and dare I say rich for you of all people to sit there and go on about "someehing for nothing". |
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Nov 10 2019, 11:14 AM
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#52
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(mald487 @ Nov 10 2019, 10:57 AM) Do not get sh*tty with me. It was a genuine attempt to be nice. I know everybodys situation is different, but keeping myself busy and keeping my mind occupied helped me through the darkest period of my depression. No, I'm not a psychiatrist but the above was on the advice of MY Physciatrist and MY doctor, thank you very much. Okay fine but everyone's different. |
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Nov 10 2019, 01:49 PM
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#53
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,599 User: 177
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Nov 10 2019, 10:50 AM) It's not a huge debt though, a few thousand. Many people owe that much to loan sharks and the amount students will pay back will only be a tiny fraction of what they earn over a few years. I had this argument with Rachel's friends last time they came as one's started on a fairly high income for a new graduate so has to start paying back straight away. It’s a very substantial debt. In order to work in the job I wanted and am working in, I needed to do a degree and a PGCE so that was four years of fees and three of a maintenance loan (I was lucky to get a grant for my PGCE year and also lucky to have attended before the tuition fee hike and that I attended in Wales so the fees were subsidised by the Welsh government) and I have been working for over 8 years and am now earning over 40k a year but still, at 31, am a long way from clearing the debt. And I’ve even stated how lucky I was with a lot of it. Others, particularly those who have begun further education this decade, will have it much far worse than me and a lot are still waiting for a job that pays them enough to start paying it back. I found a job fairly quickly but that is not the norm. There’ll be a lot of people who will never pay it back. My friend’s husband is in his mid 70s and actually began a masters because he knew he’d be dead before it all got paid back so who cares? So the whole thing as it is seems pretty pointless. I know I’ll pay mine off eventually but why should I have to when so many won’t? I don’t even think that the quality of the university experience is even worth all that money. But since you don’t contribute ANYTHING AT ALL to the country, I’ll take whatever you say on this with a pinch of salt. Maybe if you one day decide to better yourself with further education, I might consider your opinion valid but you’ve done bugger all and paid nothing into our society for decades on end so I don’t see that happening any time soon. |
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Nov 10 2019, 01:55 PM
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#54
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there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,130 User: 22,895
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Nov 10 2019, 10:50 AM) It's not a huge debt though, a few thousand. Many people owe that much to loan sharks and the amount students will pay back will only be a tiny fraction of what they earn over a few years. I had this argument with Rachel's friends last time they came as one's started on a fairly high income for a new graduate so has to start paying back straight away. Its 50k. |
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Nov 10 2019, 02:07 PM
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#55
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 Buzzjack's Finest Alcoholic.
Joined: 19 November 2011
Posts: 10,365 User: 15,367
 
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University fees are completely pointless when barely anyone actually pays them back. I graduated 2012 with debts of £18,000; because of how much I earn and the disgusting interest rate on university loans I actually now owe closer to £19,000.
Fortunately after 25 years whatever I've not paid back will be wiped, but then it makes me think what the point of me paying £2 a month back is if it doesn't matter after 25 years? It doesn't effect my credit score in any way. |
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Nov 10 2019, 02:22 PM
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#56
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 21 November 2009
Posts: 8,541 User: 10,030
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Nov 10 2019, 10:50 AM) It's not a huge debt though, a few thousand. Many people owe that much to loan sharks and the amount students will pay back will only be a tiny fraction of what they earn over a few years. I had this argument with Rachel's friends last time they came as one's started on a fairly high income for a new graduate so has to start paying back straight away. Well that shows how much you pay attention to student loans. £9,000+/year for a minimum of 3 years (4 if you do a foundation year or a 4 year masters course). That's £27,000 minimum. Add on the ridiculous interest rates of 6.6%/month or whatever it is now and the debt easily increases into £40,000+. That's only the base student loan, not taking into account the extra money you can get loaned to help with living costs. My student loan ended up being almost £50,000 once I got a job and started working. They charged ridiculous interest rates on it, so unless I'm earning huge amounts of money I will never pay it off. In fact most people will never pay off their student loan and the government will end up writing it off. So it begs the question, why charge for it in the first place if billions on student loans will get wiped? Plus when the loans get written off, it costs the government more due to the extremely high interest rates charged. So instead of them writing off £27,000 of my tuition fees, in 25 years when it comes to write it off that's going to end up being in the 6 figures quite easily I'd imagine unless things change. If it was free, people would also have more disposable income to spend as they wouldn't have to pay anything back, which in turn would help the economy. |
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Nov 10 2019, 02:50 PM
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#57
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 1 June 2013
Posts: 527 User: 19,091
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It´s a huge debt Chris. I was lucky to go to Uni the year before they tripled the fees, but both my sisters loans were in excess of 30,000. It will take them forever to pay it off and they are hard workers who do a lot of hours. One is a teacher and head of her department and the other is a midwife.
Once again, ranting on about something that you have no experience of based on something you´ve seen in the news or heard in the street. |
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Nov 10 2019, 05:12 PM
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#58
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Nov 10 2019, 01:49 PM) But since you don’t contribute ANYTHING AT ALL to the country, I’ll take whatever you say on this with a pinch of salt. Maybe if you one day decide to better yourself with further education, I might consider your opinion valid but you’ve done bugger all and paid nothing into our society for decades on end so I don’t see that happening any time soon. I'll be 60 in January so I think further education for me would be a bit of a waste of time don't you? |
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Nov 10 2019, 05:14 PM
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#59
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(mald487 @ Nov 10 2019, 02:50 PM) Once again, ranting on about something that you have no experience of based on something you´ve seen in the news or heard in the street. I'm hardly ranting on as you put it. If people only discussed stuff that they have experience of there'd hardly be any discussion in this world. What about all the pub conversations going on every night? Not everyone has to experience something to discuss it. This post has been edited by Freddie Kruger: Nov 10 2019, 05:15 PM |
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Nov 10 2019, 05:49 PM
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#60
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,599 User: 177
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Nov 10 2019, 05:12 PM) I'll be 60 in January so I think further education for me would be a bit of a waste of time don't you? Education is never a waste of time. In fact, people look forward to reaching retirement age because they will have more time to follow these interests. Like I said, I know a man in his 70s that has begun because why not? Learning shouldn’t just be about getting a job at the end of it, that’s such a misconception we have in this country. |
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