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 UBI (Universal Basic Income) |
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 7th May 2020, 02:22 PM
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#1
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 BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
Posts: 4,365 User: 23,471 
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The Universal Basic Income debate has obviously increased this year and seems more plausible than ever. The Spanish government said last month it aimed to roll out UBI as soon as possible, and the Finnish government just completed an experiment to see what would happen with it. The results were very promising. You can read the full study here. How do you feel about it? Do you support it? Has your opinion changed since COVID19? Is there potential for it to work in the UK? |
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7th May 2020, 03:05 PM
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,426 User: 12,929               |
Held to the idea for a while that UBI in some form is inevitable and the right thing for society to work towards, even if you're not a simpering socialist softie there's a good economic argument for it allowing more money to move around the economy.
The current situation has proven that there are times where it becomes necessary to pause the economy (which can never be a thing that must keep going at the expense of human lives, no matter what The way we're developing is that we have more people in our society than there are jobs that need doing, so not everyone is needed to work. But they must be kept alive. Now, the implementation of it needs to be handled correctly, there must be regulations against capitalist opportunists bleeding normal people dry of the income, so necessity prices might need to be looked at, for economic feasibility, there should be incentives for higher earners to 'donate' their income back towards the scheme, but the basic principle must be put through in some form or there will eventually be immense poverty in the developed world. So in summary, always been for it, plenty of details that need to be ironed out, but there will be more people than jobs in the future and we need to come up with a comprehensive way of dealing with that - and it would be way more efficient than the current British welfare system which seems to spend more money on denying vulnerable people money than it does paying welfare checks out. |
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7th May 2020, 03:09 PM
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#3
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,426 User: 12,929 |
and that's not even touching on the mental health benefits which I think are a serious problem that UBI would do some good at fixing
for generations we've been told that our entire life's worth is based around what job we get and that's been shown to be pretty damn unhealthy, if jobs are an option rather than an obligation, then they become a way to improve yourself, and that's far more inspiring and indicative of a healthy society than 'work to pay your rent to the landlord class, wage slave'. |
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8th May 2020, 10:14 PM
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 #38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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There was an interesting debate about it on the Ed Miliband Reasons to be Cheerful podcast a few years ago. I feel like the recent pandemic should focus more attention and discussions on it, along with moving to a 4-day week, and what work we should really value (should it be contribution to GDP or to the overall 'wealth' of society?).
I am broadly supportive of the idea, though I accept there are a large number of negatives that would probably dissaude most governments from ever introducing it sadly, not least the cost.. I'd heard that some local scale trials of it had run successfully. I wonder though moving it to a national scale may be difficult, as well as the inevitable anger/protesting against the super rich also getting a monthly UBI. However, in prinicpal, it could have huge implications for mental health and it would still incentivise people to go out and look for work, after all it is only a basic income, and put more power in the hands of the workers once more. People would value their free time more and be in a stronger bargaining position, I think it would also allow more time for people to volunteer and help in their local community, or perhaps I've had too much to drink and am thinking far too much of humanity! Anyway the 2020s will see a huge change in the workplace through rising automation so we'll have to breach this subject sometime this decade.. |
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23rd September 2020, 09:31 PM
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#5
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
Posts: 4,365 User: 23,471
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Well well |
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24th September 2020, 06:56 AM
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#6
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,127 User: 3,474
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Bring on indyref2 |
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24th September 2020, 03:33 PM
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#7
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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Interesting - a pilot UBI scheme (in Sheffield and Liverpool) was proposed in Labour's 2019 manifesto. I wonder if it'll start to get wider consensus between the major political parties as we go through the 2020s.
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25th September 2020, 09:29 PM
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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The Lib Dem (virtual) conference voted in favour of UBI this evening.
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26th September 2020, 05:24 PM
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#9
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 21 November 2009
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I think a UBI would work really well. It would have positive effects for millions of people, particularly those who live on the breadline. It would likely help to reduce wealth inequality to a certain extent. It could potentially encourage people to save as well, as it would supplement income from their job and give more people the oppotunity to save for a car/house etc.
Considering the trillions of dollars pumped into stock markets/hands of the rich through QE, I'm sure a UBI could be funded quite easily for a fraction of the cost. |
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14th October 2020, 09:34 PM
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#10
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
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South Korea has implented a form of UBI in a province of 13 million people — with the caveat that it must be spent locally. Seems like it has the potential to go national in the near future, especially with how much automation there is in South Korea. |
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15th October 2020, 06:53 AM
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
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I'd support it as it would mean an end to my yearly assessments for ESA Support Group.
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6th June 2023, 06:32 PM
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#12
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/ju...lled-in-england
They are going to be trialling it in Jarrow and East Finchley for 2 years, at £1600/month, will be very interesting to see what the results are from this at the end of the trial. The results from the nationwide trial in Finland were mixed but pretty encouraging on improving people's general mental health and wellbeing. QUOTE People receiving the basic income reported better health and lower levels of stress, depression, sadness, and loneliness—all major determinants of happiness—than people in the control group. Recipients of the basic income also demonstrated more confidence in their cognitive skills, assessing their ability to remember, learn, and concentrate at higher levels than the control group did. And the basic income enabled people to perceive their financial situation as more secure and manageable, even though their incomes were no higher than those of people in the control group.
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6th June 2023, 07:38 PM
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Buzzjack's Finest Alcoholic.
Joined: 19 November 2011
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Is that £1600 before or after tax?
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9th June 2023, 07:58 AM
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#14
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 637 User: 18,962 
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I support a UBI in principle, but momentum seems to have stalled and fizzled out since 2020.
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15th June 2023, 09:26 AM
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 6 September 2017
Posts: 11,852 User: 39,568
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I think it's actually a great idea, and I personally wouldn't stop working if I got UBI. I am lucky that I do my job through the love of it rather than for the money. I however probably would go part time, which would open up more jobs for others and also improve my work life balance.
I fear that it wouldn't work simply because of greed and those companies who don't need to, would increase the cost of food, clothes, etc etc meaning that we would just end up in the same cycle of rich and poor, yet again. It would only truly work if there was a firm grasp on cost of living expenses. |
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5th September 2023, 08:04 AM
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#16
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New Entry
Joined: 25 March 2021
Posts: 39 User: 126,407
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UBI offers many benefits like ending poverty, discouraging low wages, redistributing wealth and fighting technological unemployment.
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5th September 2023, 07:08 PM
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#17
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 21 February 2021
Posts: 3,580 User: 124,514
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Which is why the Tories will never touch it in a million years as that kind of world is completely alien to them. Its all about divide and rule.
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