 |
  |
| Game of Thrones • The Bells, S08E05 | Spoilers inside |
| Track this thread - Email this thread - Print this thread - Download this thread - Subscribe to this forum |
 15th May 2019, 04:13 PM
Post
#61
|
|
 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 13 June 2011
Posts: 19,808 User: 14,043 
    |
"If the city falls, these fine women should be in for a bit of a rape"
Yeah, she's an evil f***er 
|
 |
 
|
|
15th May 2019, 04:29 PM
Post
#62
|
|
 Schlagerdrottningen
Joined: 23 August 2010
Posts: 31,877 User: 11,709
      |
Stating a fact doesn’t make you evil.
|
|
|
|
|
15th May 2019, 04:31 PM
Post
#63
|
|
 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 11 October 2013
Posts: 31,026 User: 19,931
   |
You can still be sympathetic, complex compelling and still be "evil" or a villain. That's why her character was the best of the show.
|
|
|
|
|
15th May 2019, 08:43 PM
Post
#64
|
|
|
Mansonette
Joined: 3 November 2009
Posts: 6,922 User: 9,872
     |
QUOTE(365 @ May 15 2019, 02:01 PM)  Cersei is literally written as the villain. She's done many things out of mere spite and has always shown 0 regard for the people. She's been outwardly homophobic when people like Marj, Tyrion etc have shown Westeros isn't fully homophobic and has enjoyed giving out some of the cruellest and iconic deaths, tortures, kidnappings of the show. If you don't see her as a villain the show has failed you. Lena has played her brilliantly though, the ideal villain will have enough complexities that you understand their motives and still feel sorry for them when they're in any way sad. The whole sept storyline was brilliant for Cersei's character, and gave her so much depth and managing to make us root for Cersei after the unspeakable things she'd done so far, was a testament to the amazing (at the time) writing and Lena's acting... But she's still evil as they come, she just happens to have been one of the best villains TV has ever seen. She hasn't been written specifically as the villain, merely occupied that role on occasion - much like Jaime or Stannis and I have no issue if people wish to take the view she is the main antagonist of the show. But I will argue she is certainly not evil. And being spiteful is far removed from evil. As for her being homophobic, I don't recall anything particularly strong there. If you're referring to her set up of Ser Loras, she used his sexuality as a weapon against him because the Faith Militant outlawed it, purely to defend her son from the Tyrells and prevent her forced marriage to him. She acted in self defence essentially. There may be an odd remark about Renly I don't recall but she never acted against him or any others. Hardly evil. Her kill count? Lady - Killed in lieu of Nymeria for attacking Joffrey. Heartless maybe but in Westerosi terms it's just a pet and a potentially dangerous one at that. Robert Baratheon - Ned Stark tells her he will reveal the secret of her incest and bast*rd children to Robert who will likely execute them all. Reactive self preservation. She even attempts to stop Ned's execution Robert's bast*rd children - No, Tyrion accused her but that was Joffrey's doing. Tyrion - Attempted because she believed he and Sansa murdered Joffrey. Not achieved and not completed despite multiple opportunities Multiples at Sept at Baelor - Protecting her only living child from the clutches of the High Sparrow and the extreme religious fundamentalist Faith Militant, and the Tyrells who were working to usurp the Lannisters and manipulate Tommen. Kevan Lannister was a bonus who had also sided against her. Some collateral damage here but the entire city had laughed, jeered and cheered as she was paraded naked through the street whilst they spat and threw shit at her. Maester Pycelle - Arguable whether she ordered it or not, but he'd been working against her for years. Septa Unella - Yeah she enjoyed that one. Can't say I blame her but it was personal and they struck first. Nymeria Sand - She murdered Myrcella and they were at war, but again this one is personal and they struck first with no justification. Missandei - During war, she gave her enemy an ultimatum that Dany refused. Cersei had to follow through or look weak. Remember the Frey's pathetic attempt. Of the above the only times Cersei acted first was Missandei who was victim of a war. Even with Robert it was because Ned boxed her into a corner where it was her children or Robert. Some were done with some glee but none were without provocation. There are no flat out evil characters in GOT - even the Night King is arguably blameless in his mission - except perhaps The Mountain who took delight in raping and murdering young children where a knight should be above that. That was all for kicks. Melisandre and Stannis did despicable things but she believed it was the Lord of Light's will and he was blinded by her words into believing it. Yet ultimately it appears she was right about her god. It seems he did have a plan and she saved all of Westeros from the dead. Were they evil? Tough call but more so than Cersei. Nobody says Arya is evil because she murdered the entire Frey clan in a revenge attack. And don't try and say she didn't enjoy that. |
|
|
|
|
15th May 2019, 08:54 PM
Post
#65
|
|
|
Mansonette
Joined: 3 November 2009
Posts: 6,922 User: 9,872
|
QUOTE(Jαsє @ May 15 2019, 05:13 PM) "If the city falls, these fine women should be in for a bit of a rape" Yeah, she's an evil f***er Look at it again in context. She's telling a naive child some harsh truths and there's no joy in it |
|
|
|
|
15th May 2019, 09:07 PM
Post
#66
|
|
|
BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 13 June 2011
Posts: 19,808 User: 14,043
|
omg some of these justifications!!!
I've literally just re-watched the clip on Youtube and Cersei took GREAT pleasure in telling Sansa that f***ed up fact. It's not like she sat her down and was all "Sansa...  " And then AFTER the rape comment.."A precious thing like you would look very, very good. A slice of cake just waiting to be eaten" *grins while holding wine* I mean.... ------ https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a2747710...e-scene-report/ A Change.org petition has called on HBO to re-do the entire final season, and has nearly reached its target of 15,000 signatures at the time of writing. 
This post has been edited by Jαsє: 15th May 2019, 09:13 PM |
|
|
|
|
15th May 2019, 09:08 PM
Post
#67
|
|
|
BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 13 June 2011
Posts: 19,808 User: 14,043
|
QUOTE(365 @ May 15 2019, 05:31 PM) You can still be sympathetic, complex compelling and still be "evil" or a villain. That's why her character was the best of the show. *slow clap* |
|
|
|
|
15th May 2019, 09:30 PM
Post
#68
|
|
|
Mansonette
Joined: 3 November 2009
Posts: 6,922 User: 9,872
|
QUOTE(Jαsє @ May 15 2019, 10:07 PM) omg some of these justifications!!! I've literally just re-watched the clip on Youtube and Cersei took GREAT pleasure in telling Sansa that f***ed up fact. It's not like she sat her down and was all "Sansa... " And then AFTER the rape comment.."A precious thing like you would look very, very good. A slice of cake just waiting to be eaten" *grins while holding wine* I mean.... Really think you need to rewatch the episode as a whole then. Like I said there's no joy in it. The wine is to block out the senses, the intonation is to project the soldiers thoughts and of course she's not being sensitive. She's resigning herself to the very real possibility she'll be raped and murdered herself. She's not enjoying it, she's trying to make it seem unreal. Don't look at it so literally. There's far more subtext going here. It's an amazing episode. |
|
|
|
|
15th May 2019, 10:51 PM
Post
#69
|
|
|
BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 13 June 2011
Posts: 19,808 User: 14,043
|
Yeah, we'll agree to disagree
|
|
|
|
|
16th May 2019, 04:05 AM
Post
#70
|
|
 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,419 User: 12,929            |
QUOTE(Severin @ May 15 2019, 08:43 PM) There are no flat out evil characters in GOT - even the Night King is arguably blameless in his mission - except perhaps The Mountain who took delight in raping and murdering young children where a knight should be above that. That was all for kicks. Quite. Joffrey too, but he was only evil through immaturity. The whole show has been about taking the viewpoints of different sides in conflict, and just like real life, no one believes they are evil. It's how you define evil, really and the show has always presented it to be very nuanced. Importantly, there's no moral arbiter in this universe. The High Sparrow tried to be one, and got outplayed, because that objective is just another way of playing the game of thrones and you can get outplayed just like everyone else. Maybe Jon will be more successful. |
|
|
|
|
16th May 2019, 07:04 AM
Post
#71
|
|
|
BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 11 October 2013
Posts: 31,026 User: 19,931
|
Yeah, Cersei has taken a great pleasure in many the pain of other characters, it's hard to not see that. But I do agree they've done a great job of showing her goals and making her motives understandable and at times sympathetic for audiences.
Oh dear at the petition. Even though they missed the opportunity of earning Dany's snap and making it believable, it's still the end game I think I would have wanted - and and exciting conclusion. It's a shame we didn't get there in the way we'd have gotten 4 seasons ago, but I'm still verrrry hyped for the finale either way. I don't see the point of re-shooting the final season. |
|
|
|
|
16th May 2019, 07:19 AM
Post
#72
|
|
 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,821 User: 17,376
  |
Cersi is evil. She has no empathy for non-family (and even some of her own family). Evil isn't "I'm satan", evil is doing evil deeds and feeling no remorse for it. She at no time felt remorse for anything she did. That is the definition of a bad ruler, feeling they are justified in what they do, no matter the consequences. Once you get to the stage of "I'm destined to rule" then you are self-deluding and it's just self-justification for killing people. All of the Throne-wannabees are self-deluded, all playing the game. The only one prepared to put the ordinary folk welfare ahead of their own interests have been Jon Snow, Varys, and later on Tyrrion (and I'm guessing now Arya).
Part of the theme of the show has been redemption: damaged people like The Hound, Theon, who do bad things, feel remorse, and ultimately do the right thing, another has been power-obsessed people making the wrong choices and paying for it, and the other theme of the show has been destiny. Jon Snow wasn't brought back from the dead for lols, he was brought back because it was destiny to save all living things and be a good ruler. As I keep saying, if he isn;t the one to sit on what's left of thrones, then no-one is and the whole narrative of the show. Missandi's final words to Daenrys: "Drakaris!". I mean, what else was she gonna do having felt betrayed and unloved after helping save the world. Pushed her over the edge. She could have stepped back and helped the true heir to the throne. She didn't, it was all about her, it's always been about her. |
|
|
|
|
16th May 2019, 08:56 AM
Post
#73
|
|
|
BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 11 October 2013
Posts: 31,026 User: 19,931
|
QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ May 16 2019, 08:19 AM) Cersi is evil. She has no empathy for non-family (and even some of her own family). Evil isn't "I'm satan", evil is doing evil deeds and feeling no remorse for it. She at no time felt remorse for anything she did. That is the definition of a bad ruler, feeling they are justified in what they do, no matter the consequences. Once you get to the stage of "I'm destined to rule" then you are self-deluding and it's just self-justification for killing people. All of the Throne-wannabees are self-deluded, all playing the game. The only one prepared to put the ordinary folk welfare ahead of their own interests have been Jon Snow, Varys, and later on Tyrrion (and I'm guessing now Arya). Basically, this. She's far from the only person to display these characteristics though. On another note, I find the show's somewhat forceful redemption story for Jaime a bit odd. |
|
|
|
|
16th May 2019, 09:19 AM
Post
#74
|
|
|
❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160
   |
Jaime had the best character arc of the entire show up until the minute he stood up Brienne.
Although, thinking about it, I guess it does kinda work as he’s not going back to King’s Landing to stand with Cersei but more, he recognises how alone she is and whilst he now disagrees with her actions, he still loves her and couldn’t bare to see her be taken down without anyone she loves by her side, whilst the entire of Westeros is against her. |
|
|
|
|
16th May 2019, 01:17 PM
Post
#75
|
|
|
BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 13 June 2011
Posts: 19,808 User: 14,043
|
|
|
|
|
|
16th May 2019, 01:39 PM
Post
#76
|
|
|
I Drink Wine
Joined: 12 April 2015
Posts: 10,485 User: 21,753
   |
QUOTE(Klaus @ May 16 2019, 10:19 AM) Jaime had the best character arc of the entire show up until the minute he stood up Brienne. Arya exists x |
|
|
|
|
4th September 2019, 06:56 PM
Post
#77
|
|
|
Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,070 User: 18,639
    |
Absolute TRAAAASH.
One of the worst things I have eever eeeever seen. These two Hollywoods HACKS said they were perfect!! They literally said it. Oh my GOD. They are completely divorced from reality and good writing. They'd be underqualified to write birthday card rhymes! |
|
|
|
|
| Time is now: 24th April 2024, 01:07 AM |
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 BuzzJack.com
About | Contact | Advertise | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service
