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 Brexit II: This Time It's Irreversible, All the trade talks and future relationship bits |
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 Jan 25 2021, 06:06 PM
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#1281
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 Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,130 User: 5,138 
  
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Kwasi one of the authors of ‘Britannia Unchained’ so we all know what his intentions are....
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Jan 29 2021, 06:10 PM
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#1282
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,130 User: 5,138
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So who would have thought the EU would be the first to trigger article 16 of the Irish Sea border protocol to stop vaccine entering the ‘UK’ through the back door following arguments about vaccine distribution over the last week.
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Jan 29 2021, 08:49 PM
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#1283
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 #38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,170 User: 7,561
  
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QUOTE(steve201 @ Jan 29 2021, 06:10 PM)  So who would have thought the EU would be the first to trigger article 16 of the Irish Sea border protocol to stop vaccine entering the ‘UK’ through the back door following arguments about vaccine distribution over the last week. Oh no, I definitely did not expect that! The EU haven't exactly covered themselves in glory through this vaccine approval process in taking forever to approve and now this. It pains me to say it, but the UK has definitely played a blinder with regard to the vaccine rollout (mainly of course because the NHS have been in charge of the distribution and implementation rather than private contractors with little/nil experience). |
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Jan 29 2021, 09:17 PM
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#1284
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Say that hiss with your chest, and...
Joined: 24 May 2016
Posts: 18,433 User: 23,308
   
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This is going to make Brexiteers think they were right all along to leave the EU.
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Jan 29 2021, 09:24 PM
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#1285
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(ElevenSnake @ Jan 29 2021, 09:17 PM) This is going to make Brexiteers think they were right all along to leave the EU. Well, totally. But I suspect it's also the EC trying to put pressure on other member states not to leave or get any ideas. It certainly fuels the Brexit narrative noth domestically and internationally. In reality we gambled, risked a large swarm of public money and it came off, rather than it being some strategic masterplan. That said, as I have mentioned in the Coronavirus thread, the EU have handled this awfully. The move on Ireland was absolutely insane unless they were on onboard with it (which I don't believe they were..). |
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Jan 29 2021, 09:49 PM
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#1286
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,650 User: 3,272
     
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Jan 29 2021, 09:24 PM) Well, totally. But I suspect it's also the EC trying to put pressure on other member states not to leave or get any ideas. It certainly fuels the Brexit narrative noth domestically and internationally. In reality we gambled, risked a large swarm of public money and it came off, rather than it being some strategic masterplan. That said, as I have mentioned in the Coronavirus thread, the EU have handled this awfully. The move on Ireland was absolutely insane unless they were on onboard with it (which I don't believe they were..). Yes, the UK's choice of vaccine is largely down to luck. Similarly, it is down to luck that it is the Belgian factory that is struggling to produce the vaccine and not the UK factory. It isn't hard to guess what the tabloid reaction would have been like if it was the UK factory that had failed, thereby ballsing up the supply here. They would have been screaming about the EU "stealing OUR vaccine". If the J&J one is approved with a single dose, the EU have ordered enough (although I don't know the timescale) to vaccinate all their adult population with that vaccine alone. On that vaccine, it looks like it is the EU that has got lucky. |
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Jan 29 2021, 09:51 PM
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#1287
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,170 User: 7,561
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I mean... |
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Jan 29 2021, 10:08 PM
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#1288
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,059 User: 3,474
  
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The EU has 2.3bn dosses spread across about 8 candidates. The UK put all its eggs in the AZ basket and has got extremely lucky that AZ is a British company and thus has factories in the UK. Nothing to do with Brexit.
In fact, without Brexit and the UK had been in the EU then this entire row wouldn’t be happening at all. |
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Jan 29 2021, 10:44 PM
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#1289
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 21 November 2009
Posts: 8,541 User: 10,030
 
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QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Jan 29 2021, 10:08 PM) The EU has 2.3bn dosses spread across about 8 candidates. The UK put all its eggs in the AZ basket and has got extremely lucky that AZ is a British company and thus has factories in the UK. Nothing to do with Brexit. In fact, without Brexit and the UK had been in the EU then this entire row wouldn’t be happening at all. That's not actually true though. The UK vaccine orders are as followed: Oxford/AstraZeneca- 100 million doses ordere Novavax - 60 million doses ordered Valneva - 60 million doses ordered GloSmithKline/Sanofi Pasteur - 60 million doses ordered BiNTech/Pfizer - 40 million doses ordered Janssen/Johnson & Johnson - 30 million doses ordered Moderna - 17 million doses ordered 100/367 million doses are from the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine. 600/2300 million of the EU's vaccine order are from Pfizer. That equates to ~27% and ~26% of their orders respectively. The UK's orders are as spread out as the EU's. The main issue is the manufacturing of the doses. Additionally, the vaccine rollout for the UK got off to a quick start mainly thanks to the Pfizer vaccine. That was approved December 3rd. The Astrazeneca vaccine wasn't approved until December 30th. Whilst without Brexit this row wouldn't be happening, you could argue if we were still part of the EU that the vaccine rollout would be a lot slower. The EU's current handling of the vaccination rollout is quite alarming. Not only for the UK but for the world. |
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Jan 29 2021, 11:00 PM
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#1290
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,130 User: 5,138
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Is there any evidence it’s down to luck though?
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Jan 29 2021, 11:08 PM
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#1291
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Say that hiss with your chest, and...
Joined: 24 May 2016
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QUOTE(Envoirment @ Jan 29 2021, 10:44 PM) Whilst without Brexit this row wouldn't be happening, you could argue if we were still part of the EU that the vaccine rollout would be a lot slower. The EU's current handling of the vaccination rollout is quite alarming. Not only for the UK but for the world. It still might have been fine because the UK vaccine production bases still would have largely supplied the UK I would think? Would Britain have been able to approve the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines early though if they were still part of the EU? 
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Jan 29 2021, 11:08 PM
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#1292
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Say that hiss with your chest, and...
Joined: 24 May 2016
Posts: 18,433 User: 23,308
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QUOTE(Envoirment @ Jan 29 2021, 10:44 PM) Whilst without Brexit this row wouldn't be happening, you could argue if we were still part of the EU that the vaccine rollout would be a lot slower. The EU's current handling of the vaccination rollout is quite alarming. Not only for the UK but for the world. It still might have been fine because the UK vaccine production bases still would have largely supplied the UK I would think? Would Britain have been able to approve the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines earlier than the EU did though if they were still part of the EU?
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Jan 29 2021, 11:09 PM
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#1293
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WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,595 User: 88
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QUOTE(steve201 @ Jan 29 2021, 11:00 PM) Is there any evidence it’s down to luck though? You make your own luck half the time. From reading between the lines we invested and financed near enough the same amount as the entire EU bloc on vaccine production in terms of risk. After reading more about vaccine production, it takes 3 months for it to yield. I think the issue is the plant in Belgium did not yield, but AstraZeneca wouldn't have got up to scratch with vaccine production anywhere near as quickly as it did without the UK financing the project. Even then, I think AZ are down on the initial numbers. I think the US did something similar to BioTech/Pfizer but I could be wrong. The problem is with the EU on this one. I'm a huge fan of the project but they have handled this episode absolutely awfully. |
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Jan 29 2021, 11:12 PM
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#1294
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WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,595 User: 88
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QUOTE(ElevenSnake @ Jan 29 2021, 11:08 PM) It still might have been fine because the UK vaccine production bases still would have largely supplied the UK I would think? Would Britain have been able to approve the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines earlier than the EU did though if they were still part of the EU? Yes! We approved the vaccines when we were part of the EU. Similarly I think it is down to the EU member states if they wish to approve certain aspects of the vaccines, but the EU wanted them all to go as a Bloc rather than individually, which France, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands originally wanted to do. |
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Jan 29 2021, 11:51 PM
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#1295
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,059 User: 3,474
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AZ submitted their paperwork to the EU later than they did to the MHRA. A regulatory body can’t approve a jag theyve no information on from the company 🤷🏼♂️
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Jan 30 2021, 12:34 AM
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#1296
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WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,595 User: 88
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QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Jan 29 2021, 11:51 PM) AZ submitted their paperwork to the EU later than they did to the MHRA. A regulatory body can’t approve a jag theyve no information on from the company 🤷🏼♂️ This isn’t about the approval though, it’s about the upfront financing from Q2 2020. The EU took longer than the U.K. and US to sign deals and finance production (with lots of companies) to help the scale up. And if I’m right, the one the EU did bank on, abandoned ship. The UK put the majority of their eggs in to the AZ project and it paid off, which in turn allowed them to start production months and months ago. |
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Jan 31 2021, 12:23 AM
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#1297
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,130 User: 5,138
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Yeh think we can all agree the EU have acted disgracefullly this weekend....
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Jan 31 2021, 05:46 AM
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#1298
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 there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,130 User: 22,895 
    
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Still don't understand the whole issue.
'AZ is a British company' um no its international pharma. People acting like this is an extension of EU vs independent!UK when it's literally a dispute between a corporation and a nation. People acting like British people inherently deserve to be vaccinated before Europeans. Just utterly bizzare. |
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Jan 31 2021, 10:53 AM
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#1299
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
Posts: 4,364 User: 23,471
  
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QUOTE(J00prstar @ Jan 31 2021, 06:46 AM) Still don't understand the whole issue. 'AZ is a British company' um no its international pharma. People acting like this is an extension of EU vs independent!UK when it's literally a dispute between a corporation and a nation. People acting like British people inherently deserve to be vaccinated before Europeans. Just utterly bizzare. People gloating that the EU were too slow to procure vaccines and how this suddenly makes Brexit worthwhile — when the entire world needs vaccinating and masses are dying — is ugly. It's almost as if a world governing health organisation — during a worldwide pandemic — should oversee fair equal distribution globally rather than corporations selling patented vaccines for different prices to different blocs and nations on a first come first serve basis. |
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Jan 31 2021, 11:51 AM
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#1300
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,597 User: 177
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To be honest since the vaccine rollout started, I have been tiring of how the media push it as some sort of competition. It’s about saving lives, it shouldn’t be about scoring political points.
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