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Posted by: Spiceboy Jul 1 2020, 10:57 AM

'Victoria Beckham'
1st October 2001

1. Not Such an Innocent Girl
2. A Mind of Its Own
3. That Kind of Girl
4. Like That
5. Girlfriend
6. Midnight Fantasy
7. I.O.U.
8. No Trix No Games
9. I Wish
10. Watcha Talkin' Bout
11. Unconditional Love
12. Every Part of Me

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A thread dedicated to discussion about Victoria Beckhams first (and only officially released) album 'Victoria Beckham'!

This release followed the #6 charting Not Such an Innocent Girl, a departure in sound from the garage style she did so well with in Out of Your Mind. Touted as a huge battle between Kylie's Can't Get You Out of My Head and Victoria... the reality was a stark difference, with Victoria not troubling Kylie for #1 at all. One more single followed - A Mind of Its Own (also #6). A third release of I Wish was planned, but nothing came of it and Victoria was subsequently dropped from her record label. The album sold 53,938 copies, frustratingly close to a silver certification - sadly I don't see it ever achieving that.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this album? Which tracks do you like, love, hate? What's your favourite? Were the singles the correct choices? Rate the tracks in order of favourite to least favourite.

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https://steveyb.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/Victoria-Beckham/VictoriaBeckham-Sing02NotSuchAnInnocentGirl.jpghttps://steveyb.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/Victoria-Beckham/VictoriaBeckham-Sing03AMindOfItsOwn.jpg

Posted by: Mr.X Jul 1 2020, 11:17 AM

Most underrated Solo Spice record EVER!

When it comes to debuts, I think VB is second only to Northern Star from the girls. It's a class album, with a lot of really good songs! Overall it is a well produced album, with tracks such as Like That, Girlfriend, Not That Kind of Girl, No Trix, No Games being the best ones for me.

A shame about the awful singles. She literally chose the worse two tracks as singles. I will never understand that.

I THINK WE SHOULD DO A VB RATE

Posted by: isanka Jul 1 2020, 11:56 AM

Some good songs, but i don't like her voice. And it's too much RnB oriented.
Tracks 6,8 and 9 are my favorite.
Her second single is really bad.
Back in the days i Bought the French Version from someone who work in music industry in France and i shared the files to everyone. I gave the CD to one of the biggest Spice Girls CD collectioner).

Posted by: vibe Jul 1 2020, 11:59 AM

I have never listened to this all the way through.

Posted by: tommie Jul 1 2020, 12:14 PM

The video budget for A Mind Of Its Own is hilariously abysmal - I mean, I don't blame the record company for not spending money, but it's just about a step above Mel B's Today video

Posted by: vibe Jul 1 2020, 12:29 PM

First listen
All the songs are very similar.

No stand out tracks tbh.

Midnight Fantasy is kind of catchy.
I Wish certainly should have led the album.


It’s quite tacky rnb that she really can’t pull off. Probably left over tracks from bigger artists ? She dissent sound convincing at all throughout the album. The songs needed more attitude.

The rumours that this album cost 5 million to make I don’t believe. What record company would do that ?

Why was Out Of Your Mind left of the album ?

Posted by: Jay* Jul 1 2020, 12:42 PM

Firstly: Like That and I Wish are amongst the very best solo Spice album tracks! They would have been great singles! I think I.O.U. is really underrated as well, it's an incredibly good ballad.

I don't think there's a single bad track on there, but a few of them are just "okay". Overall it's a competent album, and the right musical direction for her in 2001. I don't think there's really any other genre she could have done a better job of at that time than pop with a slight R&B influence. It's completely an album of its time, but that's okay. I think it does a good job of showcasing Victoria's abilities, whereas I don't think the same could be said of Mel B's debut album Hot, most of the tracks were the wrong fit for Mel and didn't demonstrate what she was actually capable of.

I can see the logic with both singles that were chosen from VB. Not Such an Innocent Girl is probably the most attention grabbing/instant track... yet it's not the best song that the album has to offer. I think A Mind of Its Own is a lovely song, one which I feel is a bit unfairly disregarded by some of the fan base... it's really pretty. I think it was worthy of being a single, but probably not as early as being the second single. I suppose the intention was to portray Victoria as down-to-earth/natural/relatable after the high budget/glossy affair of Not Such an Innocent Girl wasn't terribly well received, but that was at odds with the impression the album artwork gives you.

Regarding that artwork - it's eye catching for sure, but I'm not sure what the panther imagery (including in the logo) really says about this album.

Posted by: JosephStyles Jul 1 2020, 01:07 PM

It's a decent album for sure, the quality is consistent throughout but on a first listen nothing much stood out. It's very listenable but mostly unremarkable! I'll have to give it a second play at some point to pick out some favourites.

Posted by: Spiceboy Jul 1 2020, 01:11 PM

I need to re-listen to this before writing up because I haven't listened to it since it was originally released. I remember being bored listening to the album, I thought a few tracks were OK but nothing really excited me. Will see if my opinion has changed when I re-listen.

Posted by: Mr.X Jul 1 2020, 02:18 PM

We should totally do a listening party!!

Posted by: sammy01 Jul 1 2020, 02:35 PM

My least favourite solo spice girls album along with Stages and This Time.

It is 3 decent tracks and the rest filler.

Posted by: Feel_The_Fever Jul 1 2020, 03:12 PM

Its not a great album by any stretch of the imagination but its not horrific either and i think it gets a harder time than it deserves.

Posted by: schizo_spice Jul 1 2020, 03:53 PM

I wasnt keen on it at the time but it grew on me over the years.

Not Such An Innocent Girl was a terrible representation of this album, Midnight Fantasy should've been the lead single.

The middle part of the album is really stellar one great upbeat song after another.
P
The album really ends on a damp squib though as those final ballads just didn't do anything for me at all.

I quite like the artwork it was interesting/out of the box.

Posted by: Mr.X Jul 1 2020, 08:20 PM

A BOP!



ANOTHER BOP!



EVEN MORE BOPPAGE!!



CAN YOU HANDLE ANOTHER BOP!!?!?!



ONE LAST ONE FOR THE ROAD



I'm boping!!

Posted by: Jay* Jul 1 2020, 08:25 PM

I think I'll have a listen of it tomorrow, it's been a lonnnnng time tbh

Posted by: Spice Girls Net Jul 1 2020, 08:46 PM

Ironically I've been streaming all of their solo albums recently and I listened to the VB album in full which I haven't done in many years.

As a 10 year old at the time I thought this was a great album, and of course it was a solo Spice album so I was very supportive.

However listening back I don't think it's a very strong album. I would say half of the album is good, those songs being -

Not Such An Innocent Girl
Like That
Girlfriend
Midnight Fantasy
I.O.U

I think the second half of the album was weaker.

I much preferred the direction Victoria went in with songs like Out of Your Mind and the Double A Side This Groove/Let Your Head Go

In 2001 my favourite VB song was Midnight Fantasy. I always loved that song. So memories from that poptastic era

Posted by: Piers Jul 4 2020, 07:58 PM

I've never understood the disdain for it, really. It's a perfectly solid pop album in the context of 2001. In fact, I think VB is more consistent than several hit pop albums that year (that I won't name to avoid controversy in here...). It's just...VB had the misfortune of being the fifth Spice-related album released in a year. The quality of the album was nearly irrelevant with that level of over saturation.

For me, the album's totally solid from tracks 1-10. Unconditional Love is meandering...and I flat out don't like Every Part of Me. So. A bit unfortunate the album goes out on a whimper, but I won't take away what comes before those two.

Not Such An Innocent Girl is much like Geri's Calling to me...in that they're both songs I remember the fanbase really liking...until they both charted below expectations. Nearly 20 years later, I still think both are good tracks...that just got cursed by the barrage of Spice releases that year.

Both NSAIG and A Mind of its Own were worthy singles...though I think I Wish and IOU are actually the best songs on the album. I Wish, in particular, I think deserved to get a release. I think it's probably the single best thing she did solo. I also really like Like That.

Few more quick thoughts. Girlfriend probably deserved a singer with punchier vocals ("oh no, now you didn't say...that I need to back away" needs someone with more attitude). But I like the song otherwise.

I've always thought it was a little funny that she sings about not caring about the car her man drives in That Kind of Girl...only for her to sing about the car her man drives in I Wish.

While I'm a defender of this album, I think she was on a better path as an artist with the pop material for her second album. There was less of the "I'm just a normal girl! Honest!" stuff. She seemed to instead just be embracing the posh Spice ice queen persona...and I think she was better for it.

Posted by: Jay* Oct 1 2020, 04:08 AM

Released 19 years ago - 1st October 2001!

Posted by: Mr.X Oct 1 2020, 08:25 AM

Not That Kind of Girl and Like That still slap! A+ songs

Posted by: sammy01 Oct 1 2020, 10:42 AM

Victoria was always going to be a difficult sell as a solo artist. I think the best option would have been dance pop more in the lines of Let your head go than the slick R&B Lane they went down.

Funnily enough I think Kylie's modern (for the time) dance pop was the perfect blue print for Victoria.

Posted by: Sideout Oct 1 2020, 04:56 PM

Like That is my favorite song on the album. What a bop! Victoria should have played into her posh, rich lifestyle persona instead of marketing herself as a down to Earth woman with a naughty side.

Not Such An Innocent Girl was a terrible single choice. Victoria was 27 years old and married with a child. Did anyone really believe Victoria was an innocent girl? Come on......

Posted by: Mr.X Dec 5 2020, 01:56 PM

I'm on a remix mood today and been BOPING to the Not Such An Innocent Girl (Sunship Mix Radio Edit) featuring M.C. RB who is a garage MC quite popular at the time.



It's quite the bop to be honest, and very much of the Year 2000 type of music, but I like it and could image some fun performances to it on tour or a special remix video being made for it to promo the album

It could have easily gone into a special edition of the album too, in a beautiful, more just world where the solo spices would sell enough to do such a thing!...

What do you think?

Posted by: Nina West Dec 5 2020, 02:25 PM

Posted by: Piers Dec 5 2020, 03:57 PM

I think part of the issue with their early solo works' perception is the total beating they took at the hands of British music publication reviews. And those reviews honestly weren't rational. NME's review of Northern Star suggested someone should just shoot Melanie C to death...and that no court would try them of the crime because the album was so bad.

Most of Victoria's reviews just accused her of being attention seeking and critique her as a media figure. There's hardly any mention of the music. And when there is a mention of the music (one review accuses A Mind Of Its Own of ripping off J Lo...huh?...), I'm not convinced the reviewer actually listened to anything.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I genuinely do think VB is a solid album for tracks 1-10 (and it loses me a bit with those last two songs). It's a perfectly likable album. Reviews of the time acting like it's an affront to the eardrums are absurd. And I never totally understood why Victoria was so hated by so many publications of the time. She was hardly outrageous. I remember the scandal over her wearing a lip ring in a Not Such An Innocent Girl performance...which seems so downright...quaint...by today's standards.

Posted by: Blond 2.0 Dec 5 2020, 04:26 PM

Like That & Midnight Fantasy are bops

Posted by: Mr.X Dec 5 2020, 07:39 PM

Oh I wasnt aware. Personally I am content that I didnt live in the UK during the Spicemania specially towards the end of it as the press are so vile now, I can only imagine how they were back then. WILD about suggesting Mel C being shot. That wouldnt fly today at all, and no wonder with that level of 'criticism' that people moved on from this type of reviews. The press in the UK really is vile, abhorrent and often incites violence.

It is no secret to anyone who actually listened, that the solo albums werent perfect but had A LOT to give, only to be shunned by the press at all times. This was no surprise to me at all, and yes mostly they read like reviews that arent actually about the music at all but about how much the reviewer hates the artist. A shame though. Albums like Northern Star and VB deserved much better critical reception (and public buy-in) for sure.

Im glad that Flawless and Mel C both eventually managed to turn it around for themselves, but by then the damage was very much done to their careers (and to the delight of so many horrible men) and albums like Free Me and Melanie C deserved much more success than they got even if they got good reviews in the end.

On VB, I do think that there is a gorgeous album in there and it is a stunning debut that any other artist of the time would be proud of. Like That, I Wish, No Trix, No Games and That Kind of Girl ARE AMAZING SONGS, some of the best Spice-related album tracks and some deserved to be singles.

If she had better singles, I do think she could have done a bit better comercially. Will never understand why she released those two tracks as singles. They are great album tracks but no single material, in my opion..

Posted by: Piers Dec 5 2020, 09:04 PM

To my ears, all of their solo albums had songs worthy of being hits up until LA State of Mind (...which just isn't a commercial album by design).

There may be other artists who got attacked by UK publications about as much. I'm guessing people like Michael Jackson and Madonna probably did. But. I do quite seriously think no other artists in history were analyzed so much for their chart performances as the Spices. I was looking through the old Spicenews archives the other day...and it's bizarre reading articles from late 2000. They claim that solo success has alluded Emma and Victoria...when both of them had #2 singles by that point. Victoria's was even the 21st best selling single of the year in the UK. And yet...it was still a disaster? What other artist has been held to this standard? You look at the chart placings for major pop acts that followed; Girls Aloud, One Direction, Little Mix. They, of course, had big hits...but their chartings are kinda all over the place. One single does well. One does less well. It continues. A song charting outside the top ten doesn't spell near-certain doom for a career in the way it did for the solo Spices in the early days.

Anyway. All that is to say there was a bit of an uncommon harshness in the write-ups for the Spices' music that, I think, inevitably impacted their longterm music careers.

Posted by: Mr.X Dec 5 2020, 09:53 PM

Totally agree. I cant really point towards another girl band - or even band - that all solo efforts did well commercially at their level, probably apart from the members of the Beatles and Destiny's Child. Them being British women, specially some of them from working class backgrounds, they get held to much higher standards. Their solo records had half the budgets but twice the expectations of the Group put onto them. As a group they never went below Top2 so anything lower than that from them as solo artists was seen as a failure, as if you expect each of them to sell 20million records per album internationally and tour to Stadiums two years into their solo careers.

It's jokes. And it did hurt them. It's sad really. As you say, some of those songs really deserved better and their treatment was bad from the industry and the press. They really had it for them.

Just glad we got some bops along the way

Posted by: tommie Dec 5 2020, 10:03 PM

I don't think it has to do with them being "women" or "working class" - they just set such an incredibly high bar for themselves with their six singles going to number one and 9 out of 10 singles going hitting the top spot. They ended up being held to ridiculously high standards that no one could live up to - H and Claire experienced sort of the same thing with their first single "only" going to number three and then the follow ups "only" hitting 8 and 10. Poor Lisa got dropped for having an #11 charting single and didn't get to properly release her album! I guess at least the Spices were able to get their albums out, even if they underperformed.

Posted by: Mr.X Dec 5 2020, 11:06 PM

The Spice Girls released 18 solo albums to date, with four members releasing multiple albums each, all managing to achieve success in some form. That's quite an achivement in itself.

I do think that it was unfair to hold them to the same standard as the group.

Posted by: Jay* Dec 6 2020, 03:49 AM

It's quite fascinating, but also shocking, to look back on what the media perception of the girls was like back in the 2000s - and you're right that they were held to a ridiculously high standard, while being regularly attacked.

All four of Victoria's singles were dismissed as flops/failures, which is crazy - in reality, they were hits. Particularly Out of Your Mind. By no stretch of the imagination would Out of Your Mind have been deemed a flop by anyone else's standards... but it simply not reaching #1 is all it took to push the narrative that her solo career was off to a rocky start.

Victoria, as much as she more than likely courted a lot of her press attention deliberately, really never did anything that warranted the way she was treated by the media and written about. I believe the papers and websites definitely caused a shift in the public's mood towards Victoria. It felt like so many people hated her for the sake of hating her. The other girls of course all faced pressures and bad press, but I feel like Victoria got the brunt of it.

I was so disappointed when it eventually became apparent that her solo career was over and done with, but now, I'm actually quite surprised she persevered for as long as she did. She could have very easily thrown in the towel after the debut album.

Posted by: tommie Dec 6 2020, 01:23 PM

Oh, don't get me wrong - I think it's unrealistic to assume they'd achieve anywhere near the success that Spice Girls did during those two years when they were at their biggest, I was just disagreeing that it was because they were working class women. Gary Barlow also got bashed when he released his first two albums, especially once Robbie eclipsed him popularitywise. It wasn't until the successful Take That reunion and his X-Factor stint that they started being kinder towards him. I guess for Melanie C it does seem like the press has turned again in her favour as Mel C got good reviews for a solo Spice album.

In general it seems very hard for artists that come from a pop group to be taken seriously as a solo artist by the press. I guess the mentality is that people are put in a group for a reason (and to be honest, they're usually right).

Posted by: sammy01 Dec 6 2020, 01:38 PM

Mel C changed the narrative herself by being great on the SW19 tour and being very pro Spice Girls again. Nobody wants Melanie to make being a Spice Girl feel like being a chore or curse and once she just truly embraced it she got people back on side.
Imagine a pre-2019 Mel talking about a spice girls tour inspiring her new album and embracing her inner sporty spice. Melanie C the album is much closer to the fun, colourful, interesting Sporty Spice side to her and it's no coincidence it's more liked and we'll recieived. It felt for years like she was fighting to prove she wasn't sporty spice with her solo music and it just resulted in a lot of drab and uninspired music that didn't really feel authentic.

The girls have taken a while but all but Geri seem to realise those characters are actually their strengths. Sporty is best when doing energetic, pop music, that's more fun and more care free. Mel B is best being a loud mouth, opinionated but endearing personality which is why she continues to get good TV work. Emma is that sweet, making nice music and doing things like Kit and Kin stuff. Victoria has finally realised that she was 'posh' in the Spice Girls because the rest were common not because she was that Posh. Her latest make up has played on Posh and her being more fun and playful, her nickname was posh not sophisticated which she misread I feel.

Geri is the misnomer, I guess her main selling point was being ballsy and she just doesn't seem to have that anymore. She has tried to rebrand herself several times lately but non of them feel authentic. I hope she finds her inner ginger somehow, it doesn't need to be boobs out but for sure needs you be something more than these YouTube videos and dressing in white.

Posted by: Mr.X Dec 6 2020, 06:10 PM

I did say working class women for a reason. The British press always has an agenda towards women and specially black, trans and/or working class women at that. Often the press likes to bring them up and then, once they get huge success, bring them down. Its the modem operandum by the British press specifically and the Spice Girls as a group and as solo artists are a clear example of that.

That is not to say that other artists of other genders didnt get treated like that too, but you have to contextualize this case in point. There was a really interesting study not long ago about British female solo artists and the way the industry and press treats them, and I will try and hunt it down again as it was very interesting.

Like, besides Melanie C, how many British solo pop artists have managed to release 8 solo albums whilst facing relentless criticism? Not many. Most dont go beyond album #2 or #3 because of the way that the industry and press treat them. Melanie is a resilient person and a multi-millionaire so she can do better than most in that regards, and doesnt need 'the industry' money to support her releases. But most in her position cant say the same.

Posted by: tommie Dec 6 2020, 07:19 PM

Well, as you said - most artists don't make it past the second album because they can't find funding. Melanie obviously don't have to worry about that since she's a multi-millionaire and can afford to make music at a loss. Not saying she's making it with the intention to make a loss (obviously she's trying to at least break even), but she's also not risking ending up in the poor house. Part of that is down to the girls being smart enough to make good deals for themselves from the start as most people who've been in pop groups usually don't end up earning a lot from it (ask S Club 7 or Pussycat Dolls not named Nicole Scherzinger!).

Posted by: Jay❄ Feb 11 2021, 07:10 AM

A Mind of Its Own was released as a single 19 years ago today!



I know this song has its haters here... honestly, I have a soft spot for this song! It's really sweet.

With hindsight I find it interesting that Victoria took quite a long time to release her follow up single. A Mind of Its Own's single release came 21 weeks after Not Such an Innocent Girl and 19 weeks after the album. Considering that both of those releases left the Top 40 quickly, it was quite a gap. Kind of strange to let the album die in Q4. I think it was remiss of her to have not had another single ready to release by late November or early December.

This was the only music release from any Spice Girl in 2002 - it was such a quiet year!

Posted by: tommie Feb 11 2021, 07:29 AM

I don't think it's that odd to be honest when you consider how important it was to get top ten back then - they were probably legitimitely scared of any release they did was going to miss the top ten so they might've viewed releasing A Mind Of It's Own as a way to try and "re-launch" the album in the new year. I guess they could've released it in early January instead and had the promotion of it going on in December though, but I imagine they were afraid she'd have a hard time to get promo slots and garner radio airplay with all the tracks competing for attention.

Posted by: vibe Feb 11 2021, 09:18 AM

The video / styling to AMOIO was so odd!!

Sometimes i enjoy the song and other times i dont.

Posted by: Mr.X Feb 11 2021, 09:35 AM

Never really cared much for A Mind of It's Own. It's a nice chorus but it is vastly and completely let down by the spoken verses, they just dont work imo

Plus, the chorus is a bit out of Victoria's range You can tell that they wanted to go with a single which had a big chorus to catch attention, but this wasnt a good idea at all, in my opinion.

Her worst single, really wished she would have gone with another song like I Wish or NTNG. A Mind of It's Own is a great album track, but that's all...

Posted by: Spice Girls Net Feb 11 2021, 12:40 PM

2002 was quite a depressing year in Spiceworld. There was no group activity and apart from Victoria’s one release, there was no other music from any of them. Between 1996-2001 we were spoiled really with group and solo releases.

It’s mad to think how busy 2001 was in comparison to 2002 which was just....

Posted by: spiceboy Feb 11 2021, 05:04 PM

I find this an interesting post because while I agree there is a lot of sexism towards women in general and working class women even more so from the press, I don't necessarily feel that female band members have worse luck when it comes to solo careers. There's the obvious Beyonce, Diana Ross, Cher and Tina Turner who went on to have huge solo careers worldwide, but then the likes of Belinda Carlisle, Kelly Rowland, Louise, Camila Cabello, Cheryl Cole, Geri, Melanie C, Rachel Stevens and Siobhan Fahey who went on to have success after their bands with at least one platinum album and there a whole host of other female artists who had solo hit singles or released solo album to differeing degrees of success Emma Bunton, Victoria Beckham, Melanie B, Lisa Scott Lee, Claire Richards, Jo O Mera, Liz McClarnon, Kimberley Walsh, Nicola Scherzinger, Nadine Coyle, Nicola Roberts, Una Healy...

If anything when you look at mixed pop bands it's the female artists that have had the opportunity of solo success Rachel Stevens was the one who released 2 albums and had some hits singles in S Club 7, Jo might have flopped but she put an album out, Hannah went into acting quite successfully, the boys didn't get anything. Same for Steps Faye released a single, Lisa got a record deal and released a few singles, Claire teamed up with H but got a record deal on her own years later, H and Lee got nothing.

I totally agree about the press being disgusting though.

Posted by: schizo_spice Feb 12 2021, 12:31 AM

Geri on Popstars the Rivals

Its a pity she didn’t release a new single around that time but I do respect her for not making her judging role about her and the show got all her focus. I still feel so proud of Geri for being involved in the creation of Girls Aloud. I feel many forget she was.

As for AMOIO I dont mind it, it just wasn't the right choice for second single.

Posted by: Piers Feb 13 2021, 04:40 PM

Had the album sold better, I always thought a singles run of NSAIG - Mind Of Its Own - I Wish - IOU made the most sense. Maybe an IOU/Like That double single for the fourth and final release.

But because the album and NSAIG performed below exceptionally high expectations, I do think the wisest course of action would have been to launch the album's best song as the second single...I Wish. If you've seemingly got just one more chance, go for broke, right?

I do like Mind Of Its Own, though. I think the chorus is rather strong. People tend to be split over the spoken word bits...but I actually like that. To me, it not only works, it separates this single from the other more adult contemporary solo Spice singles of the time. Makes it unique.

And even though I'd rather she released I Wish, I do understand the logic of going for Mind Of Its Own. The Spices were very good at releasing singles that showed the different sides of the group. Mind Of Its Own successfully showed us a different side of Victoria from the previous two singles. It was also the song she would be able to perform live the best. And after the intense choreography of the previous singles, maybe some live performances was the right way to go.

Posted by: Piers Feb 13 2021, 04:56 PM

Side note. While I consider I Wish the best thing Victoria recorded solo...and think it's criminal she never released it, I do think that duet version (which was supposedly going to be the single) was a total disaster. Her duet partner (can't remember the name...) is singing circles around her, using this opportunity as a vocal showcase...seemingly unaware that Victoria's cool, straightforward delivery is a large part of the song's appeal. His vocals could not sound more obviously tacked on. The added production elements are beyond unnecessary and are too quirky...interrupting the song's groove and making it very start-stop and awkward.

Had they released this duet, it would have been the worst solo Spice single to that point by far. Actually, with the exception of Cosmic Shower (if that counts), I'm not sure there's a solo Spice single just in general that's worse than the I Wish duet...

Posted by: tommie Feb 13 2021, 06:00 PM

Robbie Craig... for whatever reason they pushed him on there and I have no idea why? He was an unknown and if they actually had gone ahead with the single release it was her make-or-break single, so it was odd that they'd potentially waste it on him. He's apparently in East 17 these days though.

Posted by: Piers Feb 13 2021, 06:31 PM

Yeah. Agreed.

I do see the logic of the duet on paper. I'm sure the powers-that-be were very well aware that Mel C had completely turned her album's fortunes around...releasing a single version of her 3rd release off Northern Star that was a bit different than what was on the album (and then a fourth release that completely transformed the album version of the song). I'm sure that also played a role in the remix given to Emma's We're Not Gonna Sleep Tonight...which I think is 'fine'...but I find the album version to have more punch.

Anyway. I think the inherent problem is...if there were ever a song that fit Victoria to a T, it was I Wish. It's perhaps a bit surprising that it's one of that album's tracks that she didn't have a hand in writing. I honestly can't imagine that song fitting anyone else better. And because of that, I don't think a duet with someone else was ever going to work.

Posted by: Mr.X Feb 14 2021, 12:00 AM

Oh Gosh I had forgotten about Robbie Craig. When it was announced and leaked, it was so dissapointing. Her best song released. Yes, I totally see why they wanted a duet but that was a terrible pairing. He was completely unknown and a total mismatch, no wonder they decided to can it. Plus that performance of it they did was just awful.

Never cared for A Mind of It's Own. I appreciate how you refer to it is as quite original - and it is - but for me it doesnt sound very good at all. I sounds expensive but not totally 'there' for me.

For me, a perfect singles run would have been I Wish followed by Midnight Fantasy, then IOU and finish with Like That. And Out of Your Mind should have been on the album, maybe as a bonus track? Sonically it would suit it specially with MF and Girlfriend in there too...

Posted by: vibe Feb 14 2021, 06:42 AM

Robbie Craig was known for being the male vocalist on a few Artful Dodger songs. Woman Trouble was the biggest i think.

Posted by: Dill Doe Feb 17 2021, 01:42 PM

I listened to this album again last night. The last time I did, I cpuldn't get through it as it was so dated, and it had that early 2000 wannabe-futuristic vocalisers. However, I enjoyed the retro stuff last night, backnto music when people didn't know how to twerk, ans it was a good album!

I was getting minor no.1 vibes from Like That and I Wish!! She should have kept NSAIG for a second or third POP album maybe making the second the rnb one with Damon Dash, and gone full trap pop hop for this one.

As for the singles run:

1. OOYM - released 3 or 4 weeks earlier or 2 weeks later. If they really wanted to stop Madonna from a no.1, then one week later. Imagine her starting out seen as a winner over the queen of pop, rsther than seen as uncool and killing her album stone dead.

2. Like That - it's really catchy!

3. I Wish - as a duet with Dane Bowers, but with FAR better vocal mixing to combine them both.

4. WYTA - just to further establish herself as rnb Spice. I would add a feature, like a Missy Elliot rap, or even a Mel B rap, etc.

5. IOU - finish with a ballad in winter.

Second album:

1. Love Is For Real
2. This Groove
3. Another rnb/ hip pop/ hip hop song

Third album:

1. Not Such An Innocent Girl
2. Let Your Head Go
3. Another pop song.

3 albums, probably 2 or 3 no.1s - OOYM, Like That, I Wish, Love Is For Real - and a successful solo career up there with Geri or Mel C. She had the most potential - look at OOYM's sales. People weren't snappin it up for Dane Bowers! She just needed better material and a better run of singles.

Posted by: spiceboy Feb 17 2021, 01:59 PM

Love these ideas apart from Not such an innocent girl, just forget about that song it's an album track at best. However unless she released the album in 1999 I don't think her success would have been up there with Geri and Melanie, part of the reason they did so well is they struck when the iron was hot, Emma and Victoria waited too long. I mean What took you so long would have rivalled I turn to you sales in 1999 I'm sure (although IRM did surpass all but one solo single in 2001 I guess...)

Posted by: -Jay- Sep 17 2021, 07:58 PM

Not Such an Innocent Girl was released 20 years ago today

Posted by: Joshnat192 Sep 17 2021, 08:52 PM

Love this song , and back in the day I was amazed by the video.

Posted by: schizo_spice Sep 17 2021, 09:08 PM

I never gelled with this song.

I have always thought Midnight Fantasy was the one.

Posted by: spiceboy Sep 17 2021, 09:39 PM

Truly the wrong single to launch her solo album with! Listening to it now it's actually not that bad, has a good melody but the lyrics are cringe... if it had different lyrics / theme I think it could have been bigger.

Midnight fantasy should have opened the album followed by Like that.

Posted by: Dill Doe Sep 18 2021, 07:29 AM

TWENTY f***ING YEARS!!!! :,O

Always loved this song and the video. I've got a secret rose tattoo I'm dying just to show you...

She should have got a nom1 with OOYM and then all pressure would have been off. We need ro get OOFYM to no.1 with q campaign!!! It truly deserves it.

Posted by: Spice Girls Net Oct 1 2021, 07:39 PM

20 years since the release of VB

View this post on Instagram

Posted by: Mr.X Oct 1 2021, 08:25 PM

A fantastic debut

Posted by: sammy01 Oct 2 2021, 02:22 PM

It's just a terrible album tbh. The ballads are just rubbish, I think I like 3 songs from it.

Posted by: dancinqueen Oct 2 2021, 02:48 PM

This, A Girl Like Me, This Time / Stages, and LA State Of Mind never happened. I always pretend they never happened. What a pity she didn’t get to release her next album, it was going to be good.

Posted by: Mr.X Oct 2 2021, 08:30 PM

I think the album isn't perfect but it is great! Songs like Not That Kind of Girl, Girlfriend, Whatchu Talkin Bout?, Like That, I Wish and No Trix, No Games are pure class.

Yeah the ballads drag it down, but honestly? That is pretty much where they always mostly failed at solo music (bar a few Mel C and Emma ballads, obvs).

Vic should have focused on the r'n'b tone of the album and leave pish like I.O.U and Every Little Part of Me out of this album. They are too soppy and uninteresting.

Beyond that, the cover was terrible - WHY THE PANTHER, WHY?!??! - and the singles ruined it's potential, sadly...

Posted by: -Jay- Oct 2 2021, 09:09 PM

I.O.U is one of my faves on it

Posted by: Mr.X Oct 2 2021, 09:54 PM

Posted by: -Jay- Oct 3 2021, 05:19 AM

And I never could repay that look that's in your eyes

Posted by: dancinqueen Oct 3 2021, 08:07 AM

I.O.U > Stages

It’s a bit cheesy, like Lullaby. But I see why it was a single. She needed a song to showcase her real vocals (and show people she can carry a tune). Oh, Victoria...

Posted by: spiceboy Oct 3 2021, 08:23 AM

I agree with Jay IOU is one of my favourites on the album too. I think I Wish is my favourite track on there.

Posted by: Mr.X Oct 3 2021, 10:23 AM

Wait. IOU was never a single?... (thank god!)

Posted by: spiceboy Oct 3 2021, 10:37 AM

I think they meant Lullaby, then went back to talking about IOU (since Mel B did not need to prove her vocals!)

Posted by: Mr.X Oct 3 2021, 10:40 AM

Fair dues!

BOP!




SUPER BOP!

Posted by: spiceboy Oct 3 2021, 11:01 AM

She definitely made a huge mistake releasing NSAIG first for sure, I don't know why anybody thought it was strong enough for first single (or a single at all).

Posted by: dancinqueen Oct 3 2021, 11:19 AM

My bad. Mel B is my fave with Melanie C. Mel B is and will always be a great dancer and an interesting singer.

As for Victoria, she also didn’t need to prove anything, but I guess IOU was the song to shut Daily Mail & co. In fact, she sang it live in multiple occasions.

No one needs to prove anything, they’re the effing Spice Girls, but considering how bad was the press, I understand why they tried hard to show their skills.

Posted by: lovekeiko19 Oct 17 2021, 04:40 PM

I love IOU! It’s my favorite track. It’s super sappy but I don’t mind it, I think it’s cute as hell and I love her vocals in it…

Posted by: Nina West Oct 24 2021, 11:31 PM

Posted by: -Jay- Oct 25 2021, 04:12 PM

Nice to see that you generally enjoyed the album! I agree that Like That is a highlight, I wish it could have been a single!

Posted by: dancinqueen Nov 20 2021, 12:52 PM

Melanie C and Emma are great live, but none of their acoustic stuff is good enough to top this masterpiece.

I’ll never understand why she gave up singing.

Posted by: Babyboy Dec 11 2021, 10:56 AM

Track by Track - Victoria/The Sun

1. NOT SUCH AN INNOCENT GIRL
Victoria: "It was the last track I recorded and I didn't write this one but the record company loved it so much they wanted it on the album."
Bizarre verdict: A strange choice for the first single release - there are much better songs on this album.
7/10

2. A MIND OF ITS OWN
Victoria: "This is one of my favourites on the record - it's got a classic structure with a big chorus."
Bizarre verdict: Great pop song that will go down well with kids.
8/10

3. THAT KIND OF GIRL
Victoria: "This is my absolute favourite on the album. I think it sums me and David up perfectly. One of the lines in the song is about sipping champagne out of paper cups - and that's what I do. We're both just like that."
Bizarre verdict: A slow one which is not so catchy but one for the romantics out there.
6/10

4. LIKE THAT
Victoria: "I wrote and recorded this in London. It's basically got a different angle to it. I'm singing about a relationship that my friend is having, it's not about me."
Bizarre verdict: A funky, hip tune that reflects the music scene in the UK at the moment.
7/10

5. GIRLFRIEND
Victoria: "I wrote this song with Dane Bowers on the train on the way back from Brighton. We literally wrote the lyrics on the backs of our train tickets. It isn't autobiographical, it's about a girl telling her friend not to trust her man because he is cheating on her. It's something that I think a lot of people can relate to."
Bizarre verdict: It has a two-step feel to it and a lot of attitude.
8/10

6. MIDNIGHT FANTASY
Victoria: "This is a great pop song, very catchy, quite light and it goes along like a Janet Jackson track. I did this one in Stockholm."
Bizarre verdict: The synth sounds in this make it sound pure pop. Good single potential.
7/10

7. I.O.U.
Victoria: "This song is all about David. I just felt that I wouldn't be where I am today without him and this track is dedicated to him. Like the song says, I owe him everything. I would be nothing without him."
Bizarre verdict: Great ballad.
7/10

8. NO TRIX, NO GAMES
Victoria: "Everyone thinks they know me but they don't. This isn't Posh 'n' Becks, this isn't the Spice Girls, this is Victoria Beckham, what do you think? That's what I'm saying here."
Bizarre verdict: One of the best tracks on the album. Its funky, cool and catchy. Could be a chart hit.
8/10

9. I WISH
Victoria: "This is quite a cool dancey track. When I went to the recording studios in LA I told the guys I was working with that while I wanted a big American sound, I also wanted to make a pop record."
Bizarre verdict: This is the track that leaked out early on to the internet. Will do well as a single.
8/10

10. WHATCHA TALKIN BOUT
Victoria: "I think this is a great blend of American R&B with British pop. It's exactly the type of sound I wanted to create and I think my vocals really come through on this track."
Bizarre verdict: Without a doubt the best track on the album. It's cool, dancey and very much of today, with the same vocal sound Victoria had on the Truesteppers track. Should have been the first single released from the album.
10/10

11. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE
Victoria: "This is a lovely ballad - another one I wrote for David. It's all about us and our relationship."
Bizarre verdict: This would make a perfect Christmas single, it's spine-tingling and very romantic.
9/10

12. EVERY PART OF ME

Victoria: "This song is all about Brooklyn, about how he makes me feel and how I see lots of me in him. He was with me the whole time while I was recording the album and his giggles are on the beginning of the track."
Bizarre verdict: Could make another single release - but don't expect to see Brooklyn in the video!
8/10

Posted by: CJK Dec 17 2021, 05:54 PM

I've never listened to this album (I think the only solo-Spice album I ever bought was Northern Star) but I did buy the two singles from it.

A Mind Of It's Own is my favourite. I really loved that song when it was released... and she looked great in the video.

I wanted Victoria to be a success as a solo artist, but I don't think she ever stood a chance to be honest.

Posted by: Mr.X May 10 2022, 11:23 AM

So the album came on whilst I was working this morning and let me tell you that basically, I need to revise my opinion on this...

I still think it is a solid debut with some of the best solo Spice tunes in it. Certainly, it is better than Hot, A Girl Like Me and Schizo. I would say that it is placed in #5 in the best overall solo.Spice discography:

#1 Free Me
#2 Life in Mono
#3 Northern Star
#4 Melanie C
#5 Victoria Beckham

BUT I am now of the opinion that it should have been no more than a 10 Track EP based on the songs we know from that era... The opening songs and the final two songs really drag it down...

Here is what I would have release it as:

1. Not Such An Innocent Girl (it's a cute opener)
2. Out of Your Mind (feat Dane Bowers & The Truesteppers)
3. Not That Kind of Girl
4. Like That
5. Feels So Good
6. Midnight Fantasy
7. In Your Dreams
8. No Trix, No Games
9. I Wish
10. Watcha Talkin Bout

Singles:

1. Like That
2. I Wish
3. Not That Kind of Girl
4. Midnight Fantasy

That would be really great as an album and flow well. I will never understand the decisions to release NSAIG and AMOIO as lead singles, wtf!! And not including Out of Your Mind was also very stupid!

IOU and the final two tracks are too sloppy for me, and her vocals really strain across them which really isnt a good show on a ballad lol... IOU in particular is grating and she sounds a bit of key

Posted by: sammy01 May 10 2022, 03:47 PM

If we look at true lead singles from their debut albums, GD, TM, NSAIG, WTYSL and LAM. WTYSL and LAM did best as they were just good songs that played to Emma and Geri's strength.

Victoria and Mel B released lead singles that were more about tabloid stories and forgot about just releasing a good song. Mel C tried to release something completely left field probably again that was to show people she isn't what the press has her pinned as.

Those 3 were basically the sort of songs I'd expect insta influencers to release these days where it is more about the celebrity than the actual substance of making a great song.

Posted by: Mr.X May 10 2022, 07:33 PM

Yeah specially with Victoria, it felt really pointed to release Not Such An Innocent Girl first! Like, it is a good song, just not single material at all...

Posted by: tommie May 10 2022, 07:50 PM

I mean, it was essentially bought as the lead single because they felt they didn't have a strong enough song to lead with...

Posted by: sammy01 May 10 2022, 09:35 PM

I don't think NSAIG was picked as it was felt it was the best song but the one that would get her the most headlines. The one to make a point even if there were better songs on the album.

Posted by: -Jay- May 10 2022, 09:58 PM

A Mind of Its Own and IOU are the two of the strongest & memorable songs on this album for me lol.

Posted by: spiceboy May 11 2022, 07:27 PM

Shows how rubbish the album is...

Posted by: Mr.X May 11 2022, 08:28 PM

Posted by: Mr.X May 11 2022, 08:29 PM

For sure. It just backfired...

If it had been released today, I would see it as a promo song/instant grat only rather than a full single though

Posted by: Piers May 27 2022, 03:43 PM

This will be an unpopular opinion, but knowing the songs she had available...I still would have picked Not Such An Innocent Girl as the lead single. Do I consider it the best song on the album? No. I think that's I Wish. And Like That is the song I revisit the most off the album. But my general feeling is Like That plays a bit more like a fan favorite...than a guaranteed hit. And I Wish sounds like a second/third single.

Not Such An Innocent Girl (to me) just sounds like an album launcher. It's immediately catchy in a way a lead single needs to be...and I think we would have seen it perform very differently if it was released in the first half of 2000...or at least in a year when a barrage of solo Spice releases weren't cancelling out each other's chances of success.

I think releasing A Mind Of Its Own as the follow-up was probably a mistake, though. I do actually think the song's single worthy...and I could see a NSAIG - AMOIO - I Wish - IOU singles run making the most sense on paper. But when the album underperformed, they needed to realize that AMOIO wasn't a song that could reverse the project's fortunes. They should have gone for broke at that point and gone with their best bet...I Wish.

Posted by: schizo_spice May 27 2022, 08:42 PM

Midnight Fantasy felt like the no brainer launch song to me then and I still think the same now.

Posted by: tommie May 28 2022, 07:13 AM

Midnight Fantasy is definitively one of the catchiest tracks on the album, but I think they might've felt it was too "poppy" for her.

Posted by: pippa May 28 2022, 09:53 AM

A Mind if Its Own and IOU are the most memorable songs but both lacked the ingrediant that was needed to make them big hits in an era when the turnaround in the charts was at high pace.

Posted by: McAndrew May 28 2022, 10:40 AM

Shame VB didn't realise she was never going to be a successful r'n'b singer. Pop suited her voice so much more. MF was such an album stand out

But then why she gave us the mum pop of IOU and AMOIO is another quandary. Her fan base were teenagers.

But at least we got LYHG eventually.

Posted by: Mr.X May 28 2022, 11:07 AM

Personally I think NSAIG was *fine* as an album opening track, but not as a single to launch the whole era. At best it should have been a promo song only, sent to radios but not a single.

She should have led with I Wish or Like That in my opinion.

A Mind of Its Own and IOU were never going to set the charts alight or give her much attention. The spoken verses in AMOIO really kill the track and her vocal on IOU is terrible (sorry)...

Posted by: Jessie Where May 31 2022, 10:50 PM

'I Wish' really should have been released over both of those singles.

Posted by: Mr.X May 31 2022, 11:03 PM

This

PLUS I LOVE YOUR USERNAME!!

Posted by: -Jay- Oct 1 2022, 09:41 PM

21 years ago today, Victoria released her debut album!

Posted by: -Jay- Oct 25 2022, 04:23 PM

Matttttt brought it to my attention that Willa Ford's original recording of Not Such an Innocent Girl has recently leaked!




To my ears this sounds very close to what Victoria ended up releasing as her own version. Victoria's version had some more production details added to it for sure, but the bare bones of it is essentially the same song. Seems to me like Victoria's version retained backing vocals from this original version. Victoria essentially copied the original track's vocals, right down to various ad-libs.

Posted by: tommie Oct 25 2022, 04:39 PM

Ford actually wrote her own music so she wouldn't have wanted it anyway x

Posted by: Sideout Oct 25 2022, 04:47 PM

OMG. How awful. Hearing Willa Ford's studio version of the track makes things worse. I feel so bad for Victoria. Having a Willa Ford reject as your lead single is embarrassing. Not to mention both versions of the track sound identical.

Virgin Records did Victoria so dirty. #JusticeForVB

Posted by: tommie Oct 25 2022, 05:12 PM

I still don't get what's so special about the track that would make them hunt it down as a lead single to the point of stealing it from poor innocent sweetie baby Willa Ford (but I Wanna Be Bad is the better jam anyway).

Posted by: Mr.X Oct 25 2022, 08:17 PM

OMG that is tragic that it is basically the same song, inc the ad libs, damn...

She was done dirty with those singles, honestly.... I kind of see where Virgin might have wanted to go with the whole 'lets make a statement that Victoria is not the innocent girl the public thinks she is' but damn, you need a good song for that... this is, at best, an album track or a b-side...

Posted by: Equinox8 Oct 25 2022, 08:20 PM

Oooof.

That's sad.

Posted by: sammy01 Oct 25 2022, 08:25 PM

Why is that Willa Ford woman parodying Britney Spears voice? Having Britney sing like a toddler is bad enough.

I wouldn't be shocked if Victoria heard it and decided she wanted that 'statement' song that she was more than just the quiet posh one.

Posted by: -Jay- Oct 25 2022, 08:40 PM

I do wonder if the song even worked on that level. This has likely been raised before but would anyone have considered the 27 year old married mum-of-one Victoria to be innocent? The song seemed juvenile for her.

If Willa Ford recorded it before 22nd Jan 2001 she would have been 19, after she’d have been 20. The song feels like it makes more sense for someone at the beginning of her womanhood.

Posted by: Scary Spiceboy Oct 25 2022, 09:10 PM

Totally this. It was just a stupid choice all round, can you imagine if she recorded something like Love don't cost a thing by J Lo which was released around the same time, her career could have been so different.

Did Victoria not have a writing credit on this song? If so it was clearly an "I'll record this if you put my name on it" Then again she is nowhere to be seen on the Beyonce recording of Resentment which she had a writing credit on did she not?

Posted by: -Jay- Oct 25 2022, 10:13 PM

Victoria didn't have a writing credit for Not Such an Innocent Girl! She also didn't have any writing credits on the songs that were included on the 'The Réal Beckhams' DVD.

It's been so long since I heard either Victoria's or Beyoncé's version of Resentment but according to Wikipedia Beyoncé's version features additional lyrics and "an arrangement composed by the singer herself" (although Beyoncé is definitely guilty of adding her name to other songs she had no part in, maybe this particular song isn't one of them).

Do we know if Victoria ever acknowledged Beyoncé recording the song? I'm going to assume she didn't!

It would have been a good call for Victoria to have a song with the same vibe as Love Don't Cost a Thing, I like that idea! That Kind of Girl kind of goes in that direction "Don't care bout your money or the car that you drive / Cos' my affection ain't something you can buy". I'm not hugely into that song but maybe if the song had been given a faster tempo it could have worked as a single.

I do think NSAIG is one of the catchiest songs on that album so I see why they chose it, but I think I Wish and Like That are stronger songs!

Posted by: Rodent-boy Oct 25 2022, 10:28 PM

Midnight Fantasy though!!

Posted by: Jessie Where Oct 25 2022, 11:10 PM

Wow, that is really bad! 😳

Posted by: Matttttt Oct 25 2022, 11:35 PM

There's also a video of Willa performing the song on Youtube of Willa performing the song back in 2000... yikes

Posted by: Mr.X Oct 25 2022, 11:42 PM

Victoria also reportedly passed on Umbrella which was a massive hit for Rihanna

But truthfully, NSAIG has grown on me, but it was totally the wrong song to launch her solo career with, when there were so much better songs. Like That is a truly great song, a potential hit right there. Same with Midnight Fantasy and No Trix, No Games...

Don't think Beyonce ever mentioned Victoria in relation to that song though, but it will forever be the case that Beyonce recorded a cover of what is technically a Victoria Beckham song

Posted by: Scary Spiceboy Oct 26 2022, 01:04 AM

Wait, what? Wasn't Umbrella in 2007 or something? I seem to remember it being out same year as Spice Girls reunion? She had given up on solo music by that point hadn't she?

Posted by: tommie Oct 26 2022, 04:42 AM

It's a joke since Umbrella was passed around to half the industry before landing with Rihanna.

Posted by: Scary Spiceboy Oct 26 2022, 08:39 AM

I didn’t know that, who else was offered it? Bet they were all sick watching it stay at number one forever!

Posted by: Matttttt Oct 26 2022, 10:38 AM

https://youtu.be/ArdnsUApOzQ

Willa was performing the song back in 2000 apparently lol

Posted by: dancinqueen Oct 27 2022, 08:06 AM

How lazy of her

Posted by: sammy01 Oct 27 2022, 10:41 AM

Britney was defo offered it.

Posted by: tommie Oct 27 2022, 11:44 AM

Mary J Blige and Taio Cruz were also sent it.

Ultimately, I think we all can agree it went to the best artist to properly bring it to life. Britney was a mess at the time, can't imagine it as a male vocal track and who knows what Mary J would've done with it? Rihanna properly brought the pop factor to it and could also handle promoting it properly.

Posted by: Scary Spiceboy Oct 27 2022, 02:27 PM

I could see Britney sounding great on it and it suiting her to a tee to be fair.

Posted by: Jessie Where Oct 27 2022, 02:59 PM

I think also sometimes, these tracks in demo/embryonic form can sound vastly different to the versions we come to know.

Posted by: tommie Oct 27 2022, 03:36 PM

Yeah absolutely. Dannii had an early version of Believe played to her, but it was without the vocoder effects and different from what became Cher's version, so she passed it over. Mary J Blige definitively pulled Umbrella into a more R&B/soul direction.

Then again you also have the Willa/Victoria situation where it's the same track down to adlibs.

Posted by: vibe Oct 27 2022, 03:46 PM

^ that is a rumour about Believe and totally not true!

She also denied being given Lola’s Theme!

Dannii confirmed herself in a podcast!