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| OCC: "We will look into the way charts are compiled" |
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 11th March 2017, 01:13 PM
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#41
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,420 User: 12,929                 |
QUOTE(Mateja @ Mar 11 2017, 12:41 AM)  The OCC is supposed to track the methods of music consumption that make the music industry money. If the younger demographic outstreams and completely dwarfs the impact of sales, that's not really a problem for them. Sales are still included in the chart - but as streaming grows, their impact is getting smaller. Trying to protect the representation of older music consumers in the chart at all costs is not going to provide the real picture of the music consumption. Mind you, some older music consumers switched to streaming, too. Isn't streaming 97% or so of Sweden's singles' chart? Well, prepare for that in a few years. If you just want a diverse chart, perhaps it's time for the OCC to stop collecting the sales and streaming data and start doing surveys of chart fans on forums like this one so the OCC can compile charts that the chart fans will enjoy. It doesn't track airplay though. That makes the music industry money. And as people have said, there are good arguments to not do that, because it's not in the hands of the consumer. Spotify company-sponsored playlists are barely in the hands of the consumer, on the face of it they are but they really aren't, so that's manipulation, and underhanded manipulation at that. In fact, what's more in the hands of the consumer is gigs and concerts, also something that makes the music industry money. And honestly, now we're adding full albums to the singles chart, it'd probably be far more satisfying to add in the set-list times ticket sales of every concert in the UK this week (weighted by audience cheers of course), and it'd be better for the active consumer. You can't call it an accurate chart if demographics are underrepresented because of the way you've chosen to present the chart. A diverse chart is more important, but it's not the driving factor, overall there needs to be something that makes the chart of interest to those beyond the chart nerds and the minority rule that likes the current chart 'genre'. I'm only in here because of the ridiculous Ed situation this week, like T Boy said, but it should be something that captures attention for the right reasons and not for the wrong reasons like this week was. Like, I couldn't give a shit what percentage comes from where, sales, streaming, whatever as long as it comes together to make a chart that's as close a representation as possible as to what new tracks are receiving current hype from active music fans. Honestly, my solution, and it's a serious one - they need to stop counting streams from non-usermade playlists, particularly, if any of them, the ones based on the current charts as that just creates a ridiculous feedback loop. Active clicks of a song, count, user-created playlists count, don't count passive playlists going for hours and hours. I assume they can track the difference. |
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11th March 2017, 01:27 PM
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#42
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 there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,144 User: 22,895 
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I wasn't actually aware streaming by non-paying members 'counted'. I think the easiest rule change would be to limit streams that are counted only to paid members. This would also be a better equivalent to past circumstances; at the minute, non-paying Spotify listeners are effectively listening to the radio, and airplay has never counted on the official singles chart.
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11th March 2017, 01:30 PM
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#43
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,693 User: 13,530 
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Differentiating between paid and non-paid users of streaming will not really change listening habits I expect, the main draw of paying for Spotify is to get rid of adverts more than anything I expect (and offline listening). It would be pointless to stop non-paid listeners' streams from counting, and would just remove a chunk of people's chart contributions.
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11th March 2017, 01:33 PM
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#44
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there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,144 User: 22,895
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Isn't that the point though? There's no point including them for including them's sake.
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11th March 2017, 02:19 PM
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#45
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 BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 24 March 2013
Posts: 2,134 User: 18,521 
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QUOTE(JosephSharman @ Mar 11 2017, 01:30 PM) Differentiating between paid and non-paid users of streaming will not really change listening habits I expect, the main draw of paying for Spotify is to get rid of adverts more than anything I expect (and offline listening). It would be pointless to stop non-paid listeners' streams from counting, and would just remove a chunk of people's chart contributions. And whilst I've never seen any figures on this (indeed I don't know whether there are any), I suspect that for that reason, people with paid accounts are more likely to use generic playlists for background music. I'm sure they're more likely to listen to complete albums, which is what really seems to be annoying everyone this week. |
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11th March 2017, 05:06 PM
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#46
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 12 September 2010
Posts: 452 User: 11,831
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QUOTE(GTH @ Mar 10 2017, 09:49 PM) The issue in this case is nothing to do with the streaming ratio I don't think. It is more to do with what defines a stream single sale and a stream album sale. In this case, it is clear that many people listened to the whole album on repeat (or at least a large group of songs from it). In this case, those plays should be exclusively classed as an album stream. There is quite evidently a large amount of crossover of stream sales covering both charts which should not happen. Unless each of the 16 tracks has been excessively listened to individually then fair enough, but I highly doubt that is the case here. For example if someone has listened to shape of you 15 times and all the others only 5 times, then this should count as 5 album streams and 10 shape of you single streams. I figure from this chart, that instead of this scenario each of the album tracks has been given the single streams too on top of the album streams. Yeah I was just saying thats one of the actions I can see them doing to change things. I agree though they should have counted more of those streams towards the album sales than they did. The whole streaming interaction with the chart needs a serious revision. Firstly, only songs from paid for subscriptions should be counted I'm sure its easy for Spotify to do with an algorithm. Secondly, only songs that are played in full should be counted, not this 30 second rubbish. Finally, as i've banged on about before, streaming ratio increased to 1:200 to reflect the average revenue made from streaming and reduce the inflation of chart units. In regards to albums I'm not sure what the answer is, songs only being allowed to chart if they are an official single could be one way forward but then again it's never been such a problem with most artists. Perhaps a restriction should be placed during the first few weeks, before being allowed to enter once the hype dies down. |
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11th March 2017, 09:18 PM
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#47
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,693 User: 13,530
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QUOTE(360Jupiter @ Mar 11 2017, 01:33 PM) Isn't that the point though? There's no point including them for including them's sake. Well that kinda defeats the point of an accurate chart though, right, if some people's streams count and some people's don't? The only benefit I can see from removing free users' streams is.... well, a smaller impact from streaming. Nothing more or nothing less. The trends likely won't be different. |
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11th March 2017, 09:29 PM
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#48
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,603 User: 177
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Can people stop playing the 'accurate chart' card? The chart still isn't anywhere near accurate to people's listening habits.
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11th March 2017, 09:34 PM
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#49
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Bitch of t seet
Joined: 2 April 2012
Posts: 27,395 User: 16,660
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Wait, idg how this is even a bad thing? I mean Ed sold the amount of copies needed to bag those top 20's, why exclude him? (Or any future chart saviours)
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11th March 2017, 09:34 PM
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#50
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 is my brain across your walls?
Joined: 14 February 2009
Posts: 115,078 User: 8,300
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But it's closer than it used to be.
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11th March 2017, 09:40 PM
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#51
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,693 User: 13,530
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Mar 11 2017, 09:29 PM) Can people stop playing the 'accurate chart' card? The chart still isn't anywhere near accurate to people's listening habits. What Bray said is right, it's closer than it's ever been to being accurate, and I really don't see how excluding some users' streams would be beneficial other than giving more favour to sales. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the sales chart and its pace, but I realise streaming is how many people consume music now and the difference between those that pay for streaming and those that don't is basically just adverts, the songs are played the same way. |
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11th March 2017, 10:42 PM
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#52
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,603 User: 177
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I'm not saying anything should be excluded. Just that the chart isn't half as accurate as people say it is.
Tbh the concept of the chart has run its course. It can't decide what it's supposed to be measuring and music consumption clearly can't be measure in a fair way. |
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12th March 2017, 09:35 AM
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#53
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 November 2015
Posts: 33,254 User: 22,665
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The problem is that his singles got so high and so many cos of double counting
He would not have had 16 tracks in the top 19 If album streams had been properly allocated Free streams should count Basically the ads you are forced to listen pay for you So you generate the same revenue Than a subscribed user |
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12th March 2017, 09:58 AM
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#54
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You don't have to be fabulous to be good
Joined: 10 March 2008
Posts: 9,915 User: 5,591
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QUOTE(ankietarrr @ Mar 12 2017, 10:47 AM) Why do you want OCC deviate to show real and original trends? If Ed is popular he deserves all that places, if you want him down the charts find better, more popular artists and buy their tracks so they sell/stream more What's the problem? But it's not a real trend. Right now songs which are listened as an album are counted to the singles chart. It's like if you bought an album in iTunes all of the songs would get the "singles" sales. People listen to the album as a package, and these streams are counted to the albums AND to the singles, which is far from "original" and "real" trend. |
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12th March 2017, 10:41 AM
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#55
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 21 November 2015
Posts: 4,471 User: 22,687
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Maybe they should just go back to the pre streaming chart and keep the streaming chart separate
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12th March 2017, 11:28 AM
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#56
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You don't have to be fabulous to be good
Joined: 10 March 2008
Posts: 9,915 User: 5,591
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That's a bad idea, as digital sales will die out sooner or later and will not represent anything what people like out here. They don't represent it already, they only represent only part of people's musical habits these days.
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12th March 2017, 12:57 PM
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#57
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 22 December 2009
Posts: 30,355 User: 10,275
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Mar 12 2017, 12:42 AM) I'm not saying anything should be excluded. Just that the chart isn't half as accurate as people say it is. Tbh the concept of the chart has run its course. It can't decide what it's supposed to be measuring and music consumption clearly can't be measure in a fair way. What's fair then? Exclude all Ed Sheeran tracks that are less popular than Chainsmokers'? Doesn't this show the power of being successful in all demographics and not just among grime fans? This post has been edited by SKOB: 12th March 2017, 12:59 PM |
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12th March 2017, 02:04 PM
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#58
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,603 User: 177
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QUOTE(SKOB @ Mar 12 2017, 12:57 PM) What's fair then? Exclude all Ed Sheeran tracks that are less popular than Chainsmokers'? Doesn't this show the power of being successful in all demographics and not just among grime fans? But are the individual tracks popular or is it the album? This is why people have a problem with it. And as pointed out, all demographics aren't being represented fully. Some demographics are having their listening habits recorded but lots aren't. I'm not asking anyone to find a solution. I'm just expressing my dissatisfaction with the charts. |
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12th March 2017, 02:18 PM
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#59
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,083 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Mar 11 2017, 11:42 PM) I'm not saying anything should be excluded. Just that the chart isn't half as accurate as people say it is. Tbh the concept of the chart has run its course. It can't decide what it's supposed to be measuring and music consumption clearly can't be measure in a fair way. I agree. Used to love the chart but now it is boring, lumpy and stale. |
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13th March 2017, 08:08 AM
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#60
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Infamy Infamy they all got it in for me
Joined: 5 March 2006
Posts: 129,134 User: 2
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Ed Sheeran's Singles Chart domination a one-off, insists OCC boss
by Daniel Gumble March 13th 2017 at 6:00AM Ed Sheeran's Singles Chart domination a one-off, insists OCC boss Last week, Ed Sheeran unleashed one of the biggest albums in living memory in the form of ÷, shifting 671,542 copies in its first week and becoming the fastest selling record by a male solo artist of all time. Yet in spite of those head spinning figures, a quick glance at the singles chart is possibly even more telling of Divide’s impact on the market. When Friday’s official singles chart was revealed, Sheeran occupied 16 of the Top 19. That’s 16 of the Top 19 – a figure that has prompted some commentators to question the rules around the compilation of the chart. Of course, no one would dispute that ÷ is something of a special case. But with the albums market increasingly moving towards the streaming model, there is concern from certain quarters that, with each big album release, the singles chart will ultimately be taken over by the tracks belonging to said record, thereby denying other artists a place in the rundown. Just over a week ago, the singles chart saw all 16 tracks from Stormzy’s Gang Signs & Prayer feature in the Top 100 singles after the album topped the albums chart and broke the then streaming record. However, speaking to Music Week, Official Charts Company chief executive Martin Talbot was quick to quash any concerns that the singles chart model may be broken. “[÷] is a massive record,” he said. “There’s only been two albums in recent years that have been anywhere near this, Adele’s 25 and Oasis’ Be Here Now. There are so few records that have been of this scale that what we are seeing isn’t typical. We should be celebrating the fact that Ed Sheeran has followed Stormzy and Rag’N’Bone Man in doing so well on the chart. This time last year we were bemoaning the fact it was so difficult to break British talent, but we are having a bit of a purple patch at the moment.” While ÷ may well be a one-off, it’s likely that this trend will continue to develop with every album release from a superstar artist. Still, Talbot insists that the company will not rush into taking any drastic measures, but will continue to monitor the evolution of the charts and the impact of streaming upon them. “We’ll review the methodology and discuss it internally and with the industry as we always do," he said. "We are constantly evolving the chart rules because the industry is constantly evolving.” Talbot also addressed any concerns that streams that appeared on both charts were being ‘double counted’. “The two charts reflect different things,” he said. “The fact Ed Sheeran has got so many singles in the Top 20 is a reflection of the fact that people are listening to those singles, and they are also buying those singles. If none of these singles were being downloaded you could argue that this is just a reflection of album consumption, but clearly people are buying these tracks as well. [The tracks] are not getting twice the number of sales.” At present, it looks like little will change in the way that the singles chart is compiled, and few could argue that Sheeran’s ÷ is anything but highly unusual. But with huge album releases expected later this year from the likes of Katy Perry, Sam Smith, Harry Styles and Taylor Swift, it’s unlikely this issue is going to disappear… Article from MW |
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