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> Music Week confirm YouTube streams will count to chart, + new ratios to split paid-for and free audio streams
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TheSnake
post Jun 23 2018, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE
I'd be OK with just Youtube music views counting as it is pretty much a streaming service just like Spotify


Well Soundcloud is also a streaming service essentially and its not being added..... But then I don't know if artists make any money from Soundcloud streams.... unsure.gif
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Brightest Blue
post Jun 23 2018, 11:27 PM
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QUOTE(The Snake @ Jun 24 2018, 12:24 AM) *
Well Soundcloud is also a streaming service essentially and its not being added..... But then I don't know if artists make any money from Soundcloud streams.... unsure.gif

That’s a good point actually
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Dexton
post Jun 24 2018, 05:21 AM
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People can make money from SoundCloud the same as YouTube - via ad revenue. Although beyond that I have no idea
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AcerBen
post Jun 24 2018, 08:54 AM
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QUOTE(Robbie @ Jun 23 2018, 11:42 PM) *
Maybe it's time to start kicking out old hits once they drop below a certain position. Years ago there was a rule in place that removed records from below the top 75 when the record had recorded two weeks of falling sales and sales in the second week had fallen by at least 20%. Then this was extended in about 2002 to records outside of the top 40 which were adjudged to be "sell off singles" (i.e. were selling from the bargain bin). And when the Singles chart was a top 50 records that would have been placed between 41 to 50 were removed from the chart when sales had fallen for two consecutive weeks and where in the second week the record had also fallen down the chart.

While lots of old singles don't really record falling sales of 20% these days because they just tend to slowly drift down the chart (unless it's the week they hit ACR) one solution would be to remove streaming sales from an ex-top 40 hit once it falls below, say, number 50 and sales continue to fall (with the 10 place cushion below number 40 to enable records with rising sales which were previously top 40 the ability to get back into the top 40). Streaming sales would then only be added back in once the record passed certain criteria, perhaps similar to now when the track would move back from ACR to SCR.

The above would enable fresher tracks to get a toehold in the lower reaches of the chart and the Hot Hits UK type playlists could do the rest to help push the single into the top 40.

The staticness of the chart is a problem, even with ACR in place. From Polyhex, here are some graphs which show the worrying trend of the chart grinding to a halt:

https://www.polyhex.me.uk/uksingles/new-ent...n-chart-uks.cfm

https://www.polyhex.me.uk/uksingles/new-ent...top-ten-uks.cfm

https://www.polyhex.me.uk/uksingles/average...n-chart-uks.cfm

I'm not really a fan of artificial rules that force older hits down the chart but as we already have them in place the OCC may as well go the whole way and do something to breath some new life into the chart.


I think they should do something to get old hits out of the way, but it'd have to be a permanent solution. Removing streams isn't, because we don't know what's going to happen to the download market - possibly shrink to almost nothing.
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Robbie
post Jun 24 2018, 10:03 AM
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QUOTE(AcerBen @ Jun 24 2018, 09:54 AM) *
I think they should do something to get old hits out of the way, but it'd have to be a permanent solution. Removing streams isn't, because we don't know what's going to happen to the download market - possibly shrink to almost nothing.
Good point. It would only be a temporary solution if download sales continue to shrink to almost nothing. The alternative is to adopt what Billboard does (or at least did do. I don't know if they still do) which is when a record falls below number 50 and has been on the chart for 20 weeks it is removed from the chart.
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Grandwicky
post Jun 24 2018, 10:07 AM
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QUOTE(Robbie @ Jun 23 2018, 11:42 PM) *
Maybe it's time to start kicking out old hits once they drop below a certain position. Years ago there was a rule in place that removed records from below the top 75 when the record had recorded two weeks of falling sales and sales in the second week had fallen by at least 20%. Then this was extended in about 2002 to records outside of the top 40 which were adjudged to be "sell off singles" (i.e. were selling from the bargain bin). And when the Singles chart was a top 50 records that would have been placed between 41 to 50 were removed from the chart when sales had fallen for two consecutive weeks and where in the second week the record had also fallen down the chart.

While lots of old singles don't really record falling sales of 20% these days because they just tend to slowly drift down the chart (unless it's the week they hit ACR) one solution would be to remove streaming sales from an ex-top 40 hit once it falls below, say, number 50 and sales continue to fall (with the 10 place cushion below number 40 to enable records with rising sales which were previously top 40 the ability to get back into the top 40). Streaming sales would then only be added back in once the record passed certain criteria, perhaps similar to now when the track would move back from ACR to SCR.

The above would enable fresher tracks to get a toehold in the lower reaches of the chart and the Hot Hits UK type playlists could do the rest to help push the single into the top 40.

The staticness of the chart is a problem, even with ACR in place. From Polyhex, here are some graphs which show the worrying trend of the chart grinding to a halt:

https://www.polyhex.me.uk/uksingles/new-ent...n-chart-uks.cfm

https://www.polyhex.me.uk/uksingles/new-ent...top-ten-uks.cfm

https://www.polyhex.me.uk/uksingles/average...n-chart-uks.cfm

I'm not really a fan of artificial rules that force older hits down the chart but as we already have them in place the OCC may as well go the whole way and do something to breath some new life into the chart.

With streams still increasing I wonder if maybe they're trying to do something to stop things like the Christmas chart being dominated by old Christmas songs, as much as some people here would be delighted with Mariah at Christmas #1 that is a case when those playlists can be argued as being background music. Of course when downloads dominated we had the old Christmas songs but they didn't take over as much they did now.

When it was a sales chart we didn't have the problems we had now as once people bought a song that was it! They bought a song it counted as one sale but now one person could do that but someone else might play it ten times a week for 3 months and those plays will all count. I do wonder if maybe they might some other rules like premium users streams count more, playlist streams less or maybe even once a single user streams a song a certain amount of times that's counts and that either counts as a 'sale' and any further plays are not counted or just a general limit on how many times one user streams a song before no further plays are counted.

Yes it needs to represent what people listen to but it's also got to keep people interested and keep it current rather than the same songs from six months ago.
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danG
post Jun 24 2018, 10:29 AM
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Personally I think the OCC should adopt the Billboard recurrent rule. I'm sure I've said this before but it would really help to freshen the lower end of the chart.

For example, this week the following songs would be excluded from the chart, making way for 12 fresher songs:

53 53 58 Ed Sheeran ~ Perfect
58 51 22 Drake ~ God's Plan
65 58 21 Zedd, Maren Morris and Grey ~ The Middle
70 59 47 Portugal. The Man ~ Feel It Still
71 63 21 Bebe Rexha ~ Meant To Be (feat. Florida Georgia Line)
72 RE 58 Baddiel, Skinner and The Lightning Seeds ~ Three Lions
76 71 76 Ed Sheeran ~ Shape of You
81 68 25 Dua Lipa ~ IDGAF
84 73 46 Camila Cabello ~ Havana (feat. Young Thug)
85 78 50 Dua Lipa ~ New Rules
98 91 62 Luis Fonsi and Daddy Yankee ~ Despacito (feat. Justin Bieber)
100 86 24 B Young ~ Jumanji

The rule would also apply to old Christmas songs, so we'd still get the Whams, Mariahs and Pogues in the top end of the chart (excluding them entirely from the chart would be a step too far as they are clearly still very popular at Christmas time) but positions 51 through 100 would all consist of 'normal' songs (and maybe one or two new Christmas songs). Any song that's spent over 52 weeks in the chart also will only be eligible again once they rack enough sales to re-enter the top 25.
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Jessie Where
post Jun 24 2018, 11:02 AM
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f*** this. I am done.
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Tedward
post Jun 24 2018, 11:07 AM
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Wonder how this will affect albums too

This post has been edited by Tedward: Jun 24 2018, 11:08 AM
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AcerBen
post Jun 24 2018, 07:09 PM
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Music Week have just announced the news

http://www.musicweek.com/labels/read/offic...r-revamp/072926

QUOTE
The Official Singles Chart is changing again, Music Week can reveal. Starting from Friday, video consumption will be included in the chart, while subscription and ad-funded streams will now be weighted at different rates.

The chart dated July 6 will be the first to include streams and downloads of official music videos, from services such as YouTube, Apple Music, Spotify and Tidal. The latter three services have added video streaming in recent months. YouTube, meanwhile, launched its long-awaited audio/video subscription service in the UK last week. Unofficial or user-generated content featuring music will not count towards the chart.

In the other big move, The Official Charts Company will change its sales:streams ratio for subscription and ad-funded streams. Until now, both have counted towards the chart at the rate of one sale equalling 150 streams, but from the July 6 chart, the premium rate will be 1:100, while the free rate will rise to 1:600. Video streams will count towards the chart at the same rates.

The OCC stressed that the new moves have been approved after lengthy consultation with all areas of the industry. It follows several European charts eliminating ad-funded streams from their charts altogether, while the US chart recently downgraded them against premium streams. The moves have also been backed by artists, including Dua Lipa (pictured).

“This is a significant step for the UK and ensures The Official Chart continues to be the most comprehensive and trusted chart in the UK, bar none,” said Official Charts Company chief executive Martin Talbot of the video changes. “In the modern era, artists are increasingly multi-faceted creators, with a highly developed visual sense running in parallel with their music. The addition of video ensures that the Official Singles Chart reflects the creativity of the artist in the broadest way possible – and music fans’ engagement with that vision.”

OCC non-executive chairman and Warner Music UK SVP, commercial, Derek Allen added: “It’s always been important that the Official Charts keep pace with an ever-evolving and dynamic market, while also retaining their integrity, something which has set the UK charts apart from many of those operating elsewhere around the world. These latest changes are just another step down that road.”

It’s the second major chart revamp in the last 12 months, following June 2017’s introduction of a cap on the number of tracks by a lead artist allowed in the chart and an increased sales:streams rate for tracks in long-term decline. Music Week research showed the move had successfully produced more hits and sped up the chart, with the OCC hoping today’s moves will have a similar effect and help further boost new music breakthroughs.

The changes will not affect the Albums Chart. The OCC will also be producing a new Official Video Streaming Chart from now on.

The full story of the chart revamp, including exclusive interviews with Talbot and Allen, plus reaction from across the industry, is only in this week’s new issue of Music Week. Don’t miss your copy, on sale Monday June 25.

The Official Singles and Albums Charts are published every week in Music Week, along with a host of other listings and Alan Jones’ legendary charts analysis. To subscribe, click here.
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AcerBen
post Jun 24 2018, 07:10 PM
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It’s the second major chart revamp in the last 12 months, following June 2017’s introduction of a cap on the number of tracks by a lead artist allowed in the chart and an increased sales:streams rate for tracks in long-term decline. Music Week research showed the move had successfully produced more hits and sped up the chart, with the OCC hoping today’s moves will have a similar effect and help further boost new music breakthroughs.

Why would it do that? Do subscribers listen to more new music than non-subscribers? Perhaps..

I wonder do lyric videos count?


This post has been edited by AcerBen: Jun 24 2018, 07:11 PM
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JosephBoone
post Jun 24 2018, 07:15 PM
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So I assume ACR is still going to work the same as before, doubling the streaming ratios - 1:200 for subscription streams and 1:1200 (!) for free?

I hope this won't turn out into a gigantic mess, I'll wait and see how Friday's chart goes... :')
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danG
post Jun 24 2018, 07:32 PM
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Well at least finally paid streams count more than free streams, yay.

ACR will still be a thing presumably then too.
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Brightest Blue
post Jun 24 2018, 07:34 PM
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Mess

Can’t find a full chart, but Maroon 5 ft. Cardi B - Girls Like You is currently the most viewed YT video in the UK


This post has been edited by Cqmerqn: Jun 24 2018, 07:37 PM
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danG
post Jun 24 2018, 07:37 PM
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I think, without meaning to sound pretentious, that users who pay to stream will be more likely to seek new music whilst the free users just shuffle Hot Hits uk. Which could have the effect of making the chart a bit fresher.

Though I have no way to prove this.
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AcerBen
post Jun 24 2018, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE(Cqmerqn @ Jun 24 2018, 08:34 PM) *
Mess

Can’t find a full chart, but Maroon 5 ft. Cardi B - Girls Like You is currently the most viewed YT video in the UK


https://charts.youtube.com/charts/TopSongs/...180614?hl=en-GB
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AcerBen
post Jun 24 2018, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE(danG @ Jun 24 2018, 08:37 PM) *
I think, without meaning to sound pretentious, that users who pay to stream will be more likely to seek new music whilst the free users just shuffle Hot Hits uk. Which could have the effect of making the chart a bit fresher.

Though I have no way to prove this.


May well be the case. I guess we'll see!
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Brightest Blue
post Jun 24 2018, 07:52 PM
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QUOTE(AcerBen @ Jun 24 2018, 08:49 PM) *

Thanks

Interesting to see Dappy and Big Shaq so high up

New Rules as high as #24 though
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AcerBen
post Jun 24 2018, 07:57 PM
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Still not sure about videos being added.. can't help thinking it makes it even less of level playing field. It should all be about the song, not how much you spend on the video. But meh. I suppose it has to be done.
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Iz 🌟
post Jun 24 2018, 08:24 PM
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GOOD, whether it'd slow down or speed up the chart, Youtube is a major consumable, as long as they put in ACR-like rules that should be fine.

QUOTE
Unofficial or user-generated content featuring music will not count towards the chart.


Not keen on this distinction. At the top level, the standardisation for moving what used to be VEVO to 'official artist channels' seems good, but Youtube still has a long way to go to put every artist on an even playing field and this means (if I understand it right, as otherwise it wouldn't be consistent) that promotion channels and label channels (e.g. Fueled By Ramen's channel, MrSuicideSheep) would not count despite hosting official videos for a variety of artists. Now the songs on here are not often the sorts of artists that are likely to break the chart, sure, but there is no such distinction on Spotify, where the equivalent of these channels is songs being on different playlists.

And if a video that isn't the official version ends up becoming the most viewed through other factors, why should that disqualify it?
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