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 China: the long march towards zero COVID |
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 29th November 2022, 01:16 PM
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#1
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929                 |
We don't have a recent China thread so... so uh... THAT is happening (that being major protests against zero COVID). In that it seems like the world has finally noticed all of the bullshit that's been going on here for the past two years.
This has been boiling up for ages and ages, it's no surprise at all. However the extent and brazenness has surprised me, I hope they are safe. I've entered another 'sort of lockdown but not really but really just stay home because there's a covid case round the corner and if you go out it'll get you' time. (I'm safe, and yes I'm planning an exit strategy) |
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30th November 2022, 01:04 AM
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#2
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 BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 21 February 2021
Posts: 3,576 User: 124,514 
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Really interesting insight - and considering size and importance of China think there should be a dedicated thread.
Yes people have to be very brave to go against the Chinese government |
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30th November 2022, 08:57 AM
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#3
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929 |
That is all the push I need
 It seems as though the response from central government is to blame all of the local governments for zealous lockdowns where not necessary, clearly it was only the local government that was at fault. Which might actually be wokring, Guangzhou, it seems like it's just announced a lift of all temporary control areas - even though it has the most cases in the country right now! 
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30th November 2022, 09:47 AM
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#4
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 4 November 2013
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I'm glad to hear the people have finally starting waking up and realising what it's all about. Sad that it took deaths from a fire to finally get through.
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30th November 2022, 10:31 AM
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#5
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 there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,147 User: 22,895 
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Sorry,have I missed something? Are we all trying to avoid saying a certain word? Could you post another word which is similar?
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30th November 2022, 10:37 AM
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#6
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929 |
QUOTE(J00prstar @ Nov 30 2022, 10:31 AM)  Sorry,have I missed something? Are we all trying to avoid saying a certain word? Could you post another word which is similar? Oh, I suppose I should have said it at the start for the future of this topic. There's no particular word I'm avoiding, especially if I say what's been widely reported. There's been a lot of protests across China against the zero-COVID rules (including implicating the party and Xi Jinping), top of all the international news for the last few days. The deaths from a fire that Dobbo is referring to is a building in Urumqi, Xinjiang, where at least 10 people died due to not being able to leave because of zealous reduced movement regulations, which was one of the triggers but the protests have been reported in most major cities. From where I am, it seems as if suddenly, without a big drop in the number of cases (low by international standards, high by Chinese standards), they're suddenly now loosening restrictions rather fast. But this place can change things in either direction very quickly if it wants to. |
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30th November 2022, 10:42 AM
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#7
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929 |
Other relevant information is that this latest round of Omicron has been for the past month making normal life in the city impossible with barriers, lockdowns, schools gone to online and mass testing and code scanning when most of the time, despite the endless tests, it goes on relatively okay. When they actually find cases round here, that's it, life is ruined for the next weeks. So I really hope that era is soon to be at an end.
The central government recently released 20 guidelines that are supposed to guard against excessive regulations on that front. |
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30th November 2022, 11:02 AM
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#8
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there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,147 User: 22,895
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Lockdowns doing more harm than good because nobody thought to plan more than enforcing a blanket policy and not planning at all for knock on effects? Say it ain't so! /s
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30th November 2022, 11:32 AM
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#9
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 Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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One of my coworkers is from Urumqi and was saying that for the very first time her friends had been speaking to her questioning the regime. That’s quite a major moment given that that is the most dangerous region to be expressing any views like that given what they do to people up there.
When the only way to retain power it continually tighten your grip, eventually something will give. What is interesting for me is to think about what happens next. The CCP will do whatever it takes to stay in power but what if they actually fell? You’ve got a country that has spent decades under a regime of censorship and closed off to ideologies that aren’t CCP approved. How do they then build a state from the ashes? Will various regions use the opportunity to break free like the fall of the USSR? |
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30th November 2022, 02:10 PM
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#10
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,122 User: 18,639
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Couldn't it be said the same thing happened with Spain? It modernised incredibly quickly.
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30th November 2022, 02:33 PM
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#11
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,094 User: 3,474
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Not sure they’re entirely comparable given the Spanish population in 1978 at the point of return of democracy was 37m and greater Shanghai alone is pushing 40m. China has 25 times the population!
Spain arguably had already „modernised“ by the time of the death of Franco and as has China. More pertinent I don’t think you can compare the Spanish and Chinese political ideology. Franco wasn’t a communist. Spains return to democracy was done under circumstances more akin to that of Italy, Greece or West-Germany. Where you have a fascist state that is opening back to democratic control - but the fundamental economic model doesn’t change. I personally would say the only real comparison state is the collapse of the USSR/Yugoslavia/East Germany/WarsawPact Countries where a communist dictatorship is replaced by a capitalist democracy. Some states survived in tact (eg Poland, Hungary, Romania) whereas others utterly disintegrated (USSR, Yugoslavia) and then you had the Czechslovakian velvet divorce and German reunification as well which were totally different paths |
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30th November 2022, 02:50 PM
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#12
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,122 User: 18,639
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I was referring to the society. there are still some - even today, but a v small % - who are supporters of the old Frsnco regime, but on his death and the collapse of the dictatorship, people quickly moved on to democracy. But I hadn't considered the communism fact, or the actual gigantic size of its population! Also, if the regime collapsed today, let's say, and the firewall went down, the Chinese would suddenly be able to access completely different media, social and news outlets, which would be interesting too.
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30th November 2022, 03:19 PM
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#13
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929 |
See, the thing is, China is pretty modernised, or at least has a middle class who see the CCP as the main driver behind China's incredibly quick modernisation. Thank Dengism for that. As long as this middle class have comfortable lives, the CCP is safe. A big part of why these protests have happened is that continued zero COVID is really threatening that livelihood. They're not going to ascribe any changes they make from this as having been made by the people but it looks like they are trying to assuage some of that.
Also China is a fairly unique system, throughout history it continually makes itself rather isolationist around a fairly consistent core. The CCP is another dynasty, and every dynasty before falling had significant crises that showed cracks in their rule (Boxer Rebellion, Crisis of the Ming Dynasty etc). I really don't know how a China could emerge without the CCP right now or even for many many years, but if it does, it's moments like these that are the cracks along the way. |
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30th November 2022, 06:48 PM
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#14
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 The owls are not what they seem
Pronouns: He/him
Joined: 11 July 2009 Posts: 37,135 User: 9,232
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I hope this can continue until it makes some real change, I hate that China has always been untouchable despite being a dictatorship in all but name and their atrocious human rights violations and censorship. These Covid rules are ridiculous, let alone in 2022...
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