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 European Super League? |
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 19th April 2021, 10:28 PM
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#41
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 4 April 2015
Posts: 7,828 User: 21,725 
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Jurgen Klopp and James Milner have both said that they don't want this to happen so even the players and managers are speaking out against this now. I have the feeling that when all is said and done the European Super League wont even get going at all. There's too much to lose for it to be worth it.
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19th April 2021, 10:31 PM
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#42
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 Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,087 User: 3,474
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Been hearing a lot on twitter today about how for a number of the 12 its about extracting a stronger compromise out of UEFA and then you have United leading the yankee trio who are the most up for this because the owners of United, Liverpool and Arsenal don't understand football, sport or europe and want to do that very american thing of "make everywhere america"
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19th April 2021, 10:50 PM
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#43
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Apr 19 2021, 11:31 PM)  Been hearing a lot on twitter today about how for a number of the 12 its about extracting a stronger compromise out of UEFA and then you have United leading the yankee trio who are the most up for this because the owners of United, Liverpool and Arsenal don't understand football, sport or europe and want to do that very american thing of "make everywhere america" Nobody really knows the motives of the English clubs, it's kind of grey right now. Money of course is an important factor, but they are not as cash desperate as the Spanish and Italian clubs. I feel this is either a domestic power play or at attempt for UEFA to give an extra place to the English clubs. |
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19th April 2021, 11:11 PM
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#44
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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That might be true for 5 of the English clubs but given JP Morgan are the ones bankrolling this we can say with 110% certainty that the motivation for the Glazers and their Little pet rat Woodward is Money.
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20th April 2021, 12:02 AM
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#45
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WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,603 User: 88
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QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Apr 20 2021, 12:11 AM) That might be true for 5 of the English clubs but given JP Morgan are the ones bankrolling this we can say with 110% certainty that the motivation for the Glazers and their Little pet rat Woodward is Money. Money is at the root of it all, but what makes me laugh is what do people think about the Pemier League and the Champions League formation? Same principles. There are lots of things I don't like about the Super League, but there are some bits that I think could actually really work. What everyone is missing in the entire debate is there are so many problems with the current football financial model.. Accusation of greed coming from BT, Sky, UEFA, Premier League. Anyone remember £15 a game? 39th game abroad? Let's move Wimbledon to Milton Keynes so they don't have a team.. oh racism!! here's a £5,000 fine. City and PSG have also managed to break all rules within football, but they paid some really good lawyers and it doesn't matter anymore. Anyway my point is loads of people are missing the point in the media, it's a threat to the status quo which people don't like and also that the new Champions League model is abysmal. I don't think the Super League is the answer either. |
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20th April 2021, 06:53 AM
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#46
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,675 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Apr 19 2021, 10:04 PM) No, you get rewarded with the first draft pick the following season  Not too keen on that aspect. The good thing about those leagues is most teams are on a level playing field and isn't weighted towards the bigger clubs.I've always found it very strange that the Americans, of all people, do this. After all, it smacks of socialism
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20th April 2021, 08:22 AM
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#47
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
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^The draft is probably the only way that such an otherwise elite sports format works long-term otherwise you'd always have the same teams at the top, football has the similarly egalitarian notion that theoretically ANY club can make it big which keeps the format kind of interesting with occasional Leicesters. Which the Super League removes and I think is the biggest reason why everyone's so angry.
The problems with football at the moment are corruption, overblown wages that lead to a small number of teams dominating in their home league because they get a huge cash injection from a really wealthy owner, making lots of domestic leagues uncompetitive. It seems like the Super League does nothing to solve those problems and everything to exacerbate them. The blocking of underdog teams from international glory will eventually just make those top teams worthwhile. And those teams are insulated from disaster. That seems antithetical to the open system that football has always been. And yet I can see it eventually being popular because international fans will only want to see matches between the names they've heard about - can tell you right now the average Chinese soccer fan probably only wants to see matches between Manchester United and Real Madrid etc. This is the sort of thing that kills independent football in favour of a monopolising elite. Same is happening to so many other entertainment industries, because the billionaires in charge there also seek endless profits and consumers aren't discerning enough to punish them for it. End result of capitalism on entertainment. |
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20th April 2021, 08:30 AM
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#48
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 4 November 2013
Posts: 30,547 User: 20,053
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QUOTE(Iz 💀 @ Apr 20 2021, 09:22 AM) And yet I can see it eventually being popular because international fans will only want to see matches between the names they've heard about - can tell you right now the average Chinese soccer fan probably only wants to see matches between Manchester United and Real Madrid etc. This is the sort of thing that kills independent football in favour of a monopolising elite. Same is happening to so many other entertainment industries, because the billionaires in charge there also seek endless profits and consumers aren't discerning enough to punish them for it. End result of capitalism on entertainment. Yeah this is very much what they're banking on. They won't even care if there are no fans in the stadia (hell they ain't gonna get many 'average' fans turn up having to spend a grand a week just to see their team play all over Europe). It's all about the massive Asian/American audiences paying to watch the big names play each other on the regular. The crazy TV money will offset the lack of gate receipts but will definitely lead to hollow, stale football especially when there's nothing to play for with no risk of relegation etc. I say let them do it and watch it fail miserably! |
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20th April 2021, 08:52 AM
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#49
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WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,603 User: 88
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QUOTE(Iz 💀 @ Apr 20 2021, 09:22 AM) ^The draft is probably the only way that such an otherwise elite sports format works long-term otherwise you'd always have the same teams at the top, football has the similarly egalitarian notion that theoretically ANY club can make it big which keeps the format kind of interesting with occasional Leicesters. Which the Super League removes and I think is the biggest reason why everyone's so angry. The problems with football at the moment are corruption, overblown wages that lead to a small number of teams dominating in their home league because they get a huge cash injection from a really wealthy owner, making lots of domestic leagues uncompetitive. It seems like the Super League does nothing to solve those problems and everything to exacerbate them. The blocking of underdog teams from international glory will eventually just make those top teams worthwhile. And those teams are insulated from disaster. That seems antithetical to the open system that football has always been. And yet I can see it eventually being popular because international fans will only want to see matches between the names they've heard about - can tell you right now the average Chinese soccer fan probably only wants to see matches between Manchester United and Real Madrid etc. This is the sort of thing that kills independent football in favour of a monopolising elite. Same is happening to so many other entertainment industries, because the billionaires in charge there also seek endless profits and consumers aren't discerning enough to punish them for it. End result of capitalism on entertainment. The thing is, everyone would watch it. I don't expect for one second, Sky or BT would not want to cover it etc. - and eventually I suspect something like The Super League will happen, just not in its current format. I could certainly see a 'closed model' for a few teams, but based on historical performance rather than just accepting an invitation. Of the English clubs, Manchester United and Liverpool hold all the cards. Carrying on as the model before is not the answer, we have countries running football clubs and a botched financial fair play system which is seen as a laugh to some clubs. Not only that, this idea that has been branded about by people about grassroots football missing out is garbage. There's a massive reason The Football League was all for Project Big Picture (which imo, is ultimately that Liverpool and Man Utd would expect). Anyway the rumours about today are that two English clubs are close to pulling out. I suspect if that happens then things will unravel pretty quickly. |
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20th April 2021, 11:44 AM
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#50
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,157 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Apr 20 2021, 01:02 AM) Money is at the root of it all, but what makes me laugh is what do people think about the Pemier League and the Champions League formation? Same principles. There are lots of things I don't like about the Super League, but there are some bits that I think could actually really work. What everyone is missing in the entire debate is there are so many problems with the current football financial model.. Accusation of greed coming from BT, Sky, UEFA, Premier League. Anyone remember £15 a game? 39th game abroad? Let's move Wimbledon to Milton Keynes so they don't have a team.. oh racism!! here's a £5,000 fine. City and PSG have also managed to break all rules within football, but they paid some really good lawyers and it doesn't matter anymore. Anyway my point is loads of people are missing the point in the media, it's a threat to the status quo which people don't like and also that the new Champions League model is abysmal. I don't think the Super League is the answer either. Yeh no one is trying to suggest there shouldn’t be money in football the arguement is about the integrity of the sport and its competitive nature. The problem with uefa have produced similar proposals yday in terms of two spaces for teams that don’t qualify in the competitions. |
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20th April 2021, 04:07 PM
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#51
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WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,603 User: 88
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"UEFA is preparing a counter-attack in the Super League. UEFA is working with english investment fund to come up with new LOC that would have a starting budget of 4.5 billion € but which could go up to 7 billion."
https://twitter.com/mohamedbouhafsi/status/...0584774661?s=20 So now we have a bidding war and the moral victors of UEFA don't really care what happens just as long as they are in charge and the ones making the money
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20th April 2021, 04:35 PM
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#52
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 26 April 2015
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Bayern Munich and PSG have officially said "no thanks" to the Super League.
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20th April 2021, 05:10 PM
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#53
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IncredibleSquirrel
Joined: 8 March 2006
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I thought this was just another bargaining tool to get an even better deal and even more favourable conditions but I'm now wondering whether some of them are so dim that they thought this would genuinely work and people would buy into it. Ultimately football has been ruined by cash for a long while now it's just the latest in a long line of things where the wealthiest try to ensure they can't financially be affected by failure. Most European leagues are already wholly uncompetitive, we're at the point where previous European giants reaching the latter stages of the Champions League is seen as some kind of incredible achievement and the new Champions League proposals are already going in a step towards the super league - an uneven amount of teams and invited participants for teams who've been too shit to qualify properly.
I do think the whole thing lacks any sense as it just devalues existing competitions, by the teams remaining in their own leagues a domestic competition would essentially become what the FA cup is now, nice to win but ultimately it doesn't matter as whether you're 1st or 20th they'd still be in their prime competition. Without that competitiveness of the current Premier League there's no way it'd get the revenue packages it currently does, so they'd have to make up even more money from this new competition. I'd be happy to let them all f*** off completely to be honest - the owners don't care about the fans and probably wouldn't be bothered if Old Trafford and Anfield were half-full. 'Legacy Fans' FFS. I do think there's been quite a lot of hypocrisy been said over the last few days, not just about Sky/BT but people like Gary Neville bleating on about greed and money when him and his mates bankrolled a club up 5 or so tiers just because they could. How many of the clubs acting in their own financial self interest a year ago trying to push for a null and void season have been moaning about this? |
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20th April 2021, 05:20 PM
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#54
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WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,603 User: 88
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QUOTE(RabbitFurCoat @ Apr 20 2021, 06:10 PM) I thought this was just another bargaining tool to get an even better deal and even more favourable conditions but I'm now wondering whether some of them are so dim that they thought this would genuinely work and people would buy into it. Ultimately football has been ruined by cash for a long while now it's just the latest in a long line of things where the wealthiest try to ensure they can't financially be affected by failure. Most European leagues are already wholly uncompetitive, we're at the point where previous European giants reaching the latter stages of the Champions League is seen as some kind of incredible achievement and the new Champions League proposals are already going in a step towards the super league - an uneven amount of teams and invited participants for teams who've been too shit to qualify properly. I do think the whole thing lacks any sense as it just devalues existing competitions, by the teams remaining in their own leagues a domestic competition would essentially become what the FA cup is now, nice to win but ultimately it doesn't matter as whether you're 1st or 20th they'd still be in their prime competition. Without that competitiveness of the current Premier League there's no way it'd get the revenue packages it currently does, so they'd have to make up even more money from this new competition. I'd be happy to let them all f*** off completely to be honest - the owners don't care about the fans and probably wouldn't be bothered if Old Trafford and Anfield were half-full. 'Legacy Fans' FFS. I do think there's been quite a lot of hypocrisy been said over the last few days, not just about Sky/BT but people like Gary Neville bleating on about greed and money when him and his mates bankrolled a club up 5 or so tiers just because they could. How many of the clubs acting in their own financial self interest a year ago trying to push for a null and void season have been moaning about this? Mark you make a lot of points I strongly agree with. I think the idea of a Super League is inevitable and eventually I suspect there would be a Super League 2 etc. but in it's current format its such a difficult sell. I think if they had actually engaged fans first and explained the benefits then things could be different. I'm not sure if it leaked out early, but the PR has been a disaster. I do find it really uncomfortable at the anger directed towards the manager and the players from the clubs when it has nothing to do with them. Did you not hear Steve Parish yesterday during Gary Neville's passionate rant? He complete dodged the question about wanting to null and void last season (effectively curtailing relegation) and claimed whenever he voted he voted as the voice of 'The Football League' Absolutely pitiful. They vote for their own self-interests and nowhere near enough money floats down to the lower leagues.
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20th April 2021, 06:05 PM
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#55
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,675 User: 3,272
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Chelsea are reported to be pulling out of the ESL.
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20th April 2021, 06:33 PM
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#56
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It's still will be the return of the Mack 4eva
Joined: 1 February 2011
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Man City also reported to be withdrawing.
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20th April 2021, 06:49 PM
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#57
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Buzzjack's Finest Alcoholic.
Joined: 19 November 2011
Posts: 10,365 User: 15,367
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This is lasting long! I wonder who the other three teams were and if they are now scrambling to get another two!
Also think it’s completely pointless to have a European “Super League” without the current Champions of Europe
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20th April 2021, 07:06 PM
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#58
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,157 User: 5,138
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It’s all falling apart now thankfully - City and Chelsea leaving it. It’ll be a domino effect now.
Ed Woodwood resigns as well!! |
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20th April 2021, 07:09 PM
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#59
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 4 April 2015
Posts: 7,828 User: 21,725
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Thank goodness Ed Woodward is out of our club. Need to get rid of the Glazers now!
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20th April 2021, 07:11 PM
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#60
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,157 User: 5,138
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I always got him mixed up with the glazers thinking he was one of the brothers - they’ll just add another idiot in there?
In all seriousness if there was competition in terms of promotion and relegation would it be able to work, what’s people’s thoughts? |
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