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 Forever with solos - How would it sound? |
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 7th January 2023, 11:45 PM
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#21
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 BuzzJack Climber
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QUOTE(Voodoo @ Jan 7 2023, 09:08 PM)  Is there even such a thing in existence?  The demo used for xmas’s rehearsals. In the documentary you can see them rehearsing Holler's choreography, but without the audio. The version that appeared in 1999 is very pop and quite different from the final version. The type of guitar is different, the beat is cooler. The bass has more presence which makes the music more interesting. And there are some other typical pop elements used, but I can't explain them in detail. This post has been edited by dromeda: 8th January 2023, 02:26 AM |
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8th January 2023, 01:29 AM
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#22
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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QUOTE(dromeda @ Jan 7 2023, 11:45 PM) Just as Woman and Right Back At Ya had their pop versions for the Christmas tour, “Holler Holler” probably would too. At least the demo used for rehearsals. In the documentary you can see them rehearsing Holler's choreography, but without the audio. The version that appeared in 1999 is very pop and quite different from the final version. The type of guitar is different, the beat is cooler. The bass has more presence which makes the music more interesting. And there are some other typical pop elements used, but I can't explain them in detail. The 2000 version has a more "dry" beat, the bass is little used and elements of the 1999 version are missing. I don't want to create discussion about which version is better. I think Holler is one of their best songs (pop or RnB) and probably the only good thing that happened in Forever era. What are you talking about? 
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8th January 2023, 02:23 AM
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#23
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BuzzJack Climber
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QUOTE(Mr.X @ Jan 8 2023, 01:29 AM) What are you talking about? Holler's first version from 1999. The one they played at Earls Court. What? Is it not possible to distinguish that version is more pop than the final version? |
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8th January 2023, 03:01 PM
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#24
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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QUOTE(dromeda @ Jan 8 2023, 02:23 AM) Holler's first version from 1999. The one they played at Earls Court. What? Is it not possible to distinguish that version is more pop than the final version? It is not a pop version, it is just a live arrangement of the same song... Doesn't mean it is a pop version?... |
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8th January 2023, 10:27 PM
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#25
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BuzzJack Climber
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QUOTE(Mr.X @ Jan 8 2023, 03:01 PM) It is not a pop version, it is just a live arrangement of the same song... Doesn't mean it is a pop version?... What I'm saying is that the earls court version (studio version) must be different from the final version. Or in 1999 the album version had already been completely finalized? In 1999 weren't they producing a pop album? |
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8th January 2023, 11:10 PM
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#26
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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QUOTE(dromeda @ Jan 8 2023, 10:27 PM) What I'm saying is that the earls court version (studio version) must be different from the final version. Or in 1999 the album version had already been completely finalized? In 1999 weren't they producing a pop album? By that rationale, then the Brits version of Holler would have also been the pop version, and we have it on record that it wasn't. It's the same song, it had been finished before the Christmas in Spice World Tour in 1999. That isn't that much different from the one below. It's just that the Christmas in Spice World live performance had live arragements which gave other elements to the song. But the song was already done and there was no pop version of Holler that we know of or ever heard of. They weren't just doing pop in 1999, in fact they had already recorded a lot of Forever by that point, both pop and r'n'b songs, before they went full r'n'b. The main Jerkins sessions had been done by that point, same with Jam & Lewis ones. Sorry, I just don't think there was ever a pop version of Holler. It has always been an r'n'b song. This post has been edited by Mr.X: 8th January 2023, 11:19 PM |
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9th January 2023, 12:03 AM
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#27
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
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I wonder why they even bothered performing Holler at the Brits when they knew it wasn’t going to be released for another 7 months.
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9th January 2023, 02:32 AM
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#28
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BuzzJack Climber
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QUOTE(Mr.X @ Jan 8 2023, 11:10 PM) By that rationale, then the Brits version of Holler would have also been the pop version, and we have it on record that it wasn't. It's the same song, it had been finished before the Christmas in Spice World Tour in 1999. That isn't that much different from the one below. It's just that the Christmas in Spice World live performance had live arragements which gave other elements to the song. But the song was already done and there was no pop version of Holler that we know of or ever heard of. They weren't just doing pop in 1999, in fact they had already recorded a lot of Forever by that point, both pop and r'n'b songs, before they went full r'n'b. The main Jerkins sessions had been done by that point, same with Jam & Lewis ones. Sorry, I just don't think there was ever a pop version of Holler. It has always been an r'n'b song. I really messed up the timeline about the events of 1999. Perhaps the fact that they performed woman and RBAY - two pop songs - made me believe that Holler would have been recorded in the same sessions as Pain Proof and other unreleased ones. I always thought that just as RBAT was remade for Forever, so was Holler. Is there a timeline of recording sessions for the third album? Including the unreleased ones. Who was originally involved? This post has been edited by dromeda: 9th January 2023, 02:34 AM |
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9th January 2023, 10:48 AM
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#29
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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QUOTE(dromeda @ Jan 9 2023, 02:32 AM) I really messed up the timeline about the events of 1999. Perhaps the fact that they performed woman and RBAY - two pop songs - made me believe that Holler would have been recorded in the same sessions as Pain Proof and other unreleased ones. I always thought that just as RBAT was remade for Forever, so was Holler. Is there a timeline of recording sessions for the third album? Including the unreleased ones. Who was originally involved? Thats totally fair, don't worry. RBAY did have a pop version but as far as we know, this was the only pop song to be given an r'n'b make over as they didn't have enough r'n'b songs to make up the full album. The main bulk of songs, both pop and r'n'b were recorded in August/September 1999 in London and Sheffield. I don't have the exact dates at the moment, but other fans will. The involved producers in 1999 were: POP Biff Stannard & Matt Rowe Elliott Kennedy R&B Rodney Jerkins Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis I don't think we know of any other potential producers from that time, those were the only ones confirmed. Then in 2000, Rodney Jerkins took over the whole album including re-mixing RBAY and leading on the recording of more music in Spring 2000 to make up the rest of the album with r&b production, for better or worse. I wish they had Jam & Lewis take over the record instead though. Rodney was too same-same, even if I love Forever! This post has been edited by Mr.X: 9th January 2023, 10:51 AM |
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9th January 2023, 11:31 AM
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#30
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
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I always find it funny that Elliot Kennedy said that RBAY (his version) was the best song he had recorded with the girls and that they ruined it when it got altered... he wrote SYBT with them which TOWERS over RBAY in either form...
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9th January 2023, 01:29 PM
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#31
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BuzzJack Climber
Joined: 28 October 2019
Posts: 100 User: 94,913
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QUOTE(Mr.X @ Jan 9 2023, 10:48 AM) Thats totally fair, don't worry. RBAY did have a pop version but as far as we know, this was the only pop song to be given an r'n'b make over as they didn't have enough r'n'b songs to make up the full album. The main bulk of songs, both pop and r'n'b were recorded in August/September 1999 in London and Sheffield. I don't have the exact dates at the moment, but other fans will. The involved producers in 1999 were: POP Biff Stannard & Matt Rowe Elliott Kennedy R&B Rodney Jerkins Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis I don't think we know of any other potential producers from that time, those were the only ones confirmed. Then in 2000, Rodney Jerkins took over the whole album including re-mixing RBAY and leading on the recording of more music in Spring 2000 to make up the rest of the album with r&b production, for better or worse. I wish they had Jam & Lewis take over the record instead though. Rodney was too same-same, even if I love Forever! Thanks for the info! Particularly preferred that the album had more pop songs produced by the old partners and only a few RnB. Either way, Holler is a classic. One of my favorite songs by them. |
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9th January 2023, 02:19 PM
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#32
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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QUOTE(dromeda @ Jan 9 2023, 01:29 PM) Thanks for the info! Particularly preferred that the album had more pop songs produced by the old partners and only a few RnB. Either way, Holler is a classic. One of my favorite songs by them. I think the fan's frustration with the album is exactly from the fact they discarted the pop songs whereas they should have done a pop/r'n'b album at the time, to provide a nice transition. Yes Holler is totally a Spice classic that continues to age like a fine wine! |
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11th January 2023, 02:47 PM
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#33
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 "Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
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QUOTE(schizo_spice @ Jan 9 2023, 12:03 AM) I wonder why they even bothered performing Holler at the Brits when they knew it wasn’t going to be released for another 7 months. I’ll always find it a bit weird that they sat on Holler for months! The Northern Star album era didn’t really become huge until the end of March 2000, after Never Be the Same Again reached #1 - but they performed Holler at the Brits in early March 2000, and obviously at the concerts in December 1999. I’m kind of surprised that Virgin didn’t think around Christmas 99 that the Northern Star album wasn’t really doing overly well and to shift focus onto Spice Girls asap. Enough material had been recorded for a third Spice Girls album by then, Holler was ready to go… Perhaps Virgin always had a long term plan with the Northern Star era and had big faith in Never Be the Same Again from the start, enough to be confident in holding it back to be the era’s third single. Of course ultimately the continued focus on Northern Star ended up paying off majorly in 2000. They could have easily got cold feet though after two #4 singles and a #10 album though… and they couldn’t have known for sure that the album would grow into achieving huge sales. Regardless, I’m not sure what was stopping Spice Girls from releasing Holler earlier. They didn’t have to launch the album directly after one single, it could have served as a reintroduction. Performing it at the Brits 7 months in advance of the single release was just odd, although I suppose the fact it wasn’t televised meant that the wider public didn’t hear it. But it’s like, why bother? I think I read somewhere that the purpose of performing it was specifically for the industry people in the audience, but I don’t understand what the point in that was… |
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11th January 2023, 04:57 PM
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#34
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BuzzJack Climber
Joined: 28 October 2019
Posts: 100 User: 94,913
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QUOTE(-Jay- @ Jan 11 2023, 02:47 PM) I’ll always find it a bit weird that they sat on Holler for months! The Northern Star album era didn’t really become huge until the end of March 2000, after Never Be the Same Again reached #1 - but they performed Holler at the Brits in early March 2000, and obviously at the concerts in December 1999. I’m kind of surprised that Virgin didn’t think around Christmas 99 that the Northern Star album wasn’t really doing overly well and to shift focus onto Spice Girls asap. Enough material had been recorded for a third Spice Girls album by then, Holler was ready to go… Perhaps Virgin always had a long term plan with the Northern Star era and had big faith in Never Be the Same Again from the start, enough to be confident in holding it back to be the era’s third single. Of course ultimately the continued focus on Northern Star ended up paying off majorly in 2000. They could have easily got cold feet though after two #4 singles and a #10 album though… and they couldn’t have known for sure that the album would grow into achieving huge sales. Regardless, I’m not sure what was stopping Spice Girls from releasing Holler earlier. They didn’t have to launch the album directly after one single, it could have served as a reintroduction. Performing it at the Brits 7 months in advance of the single release was just odd, although I suppose the fact it wasn’t televised meant that the wider public didn’t hear it. But it’s like, why bother? I think I read somewhere that the purpose of performing it was specifically for the industry people in the audience, but I don’t understand what the point in that was… The biggest reason they did Holler's performance on the Brits was to show the public that they had new content on the way. At that time, it was said that without Geri, the others would not be the same. We cannot forget that there was a certain rivalry between Geri and the others, and Geri was present that day. (Although it looks like she left the Brits before the girls performed). So, doing 2 old songs that the public was saturated listening to wouldn't be interesting. Performing new material would be a gift in recognition of the award received, it would shut the mouths of many who said they would not continue as a quartet and, of course, to spark interest in the work to come. Holler was not televised at the time either because the show was too long or because of the grotesque failures that occurred with the microphones and their voices. I also believe there were plans to release Holler soon. The reason it took so long is unknown. Virgin was probably playing cards with Melanie C's solo and preferred to readjust things. Again, in the meantime they should have released a single/videoclip like The One by BSB - showing the trajectory of their career so far. The song Right Back At Ya would be PERFECT for this. |
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11th January 2023, 09:30 PM
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#35
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
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Melanie C said in her bio that Virgin was not sure about a third single from NS.
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11th January 2023, 09:35 PM
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#36
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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I always said that a late Spring/Summer 2000 release of the pop version of Right Back At Ya would have been PERFECT to start the Forever era and introduce them as a 4-piece in a wider way!
Then do some shows in the summer gearing up to a release of Holler/Let Love Lead The Way in October but with a more colourfull video for Holler (and a better video for LLLTW!), and a much better and colourful album cover. Get the Right Back At Ya r&b version to be a bside for If You Wanna Have Some Fun for January/February 2021 and then another single (maybe Tell Me Why or Weekend Love) and go on a short Stadium tour in April 2021 and call it a day! It would have inevitably done much better and we wouldnt all be so bitter! |
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13th January 2023, 06:16 AM
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#37
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BuzzJack Regular
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In terms of Holler being cut from the broadcast, I think the official reason given was trouble with the mics. But in all honesty, three of the girls sound fine to me...but Victoria's struggling. You can hardly blame her. There was that stalker who'd told her he'd be at the show. Holler was already the most challenging song for Victoria that the Spice Girls had recorded to that point. With the added stress of the situation, she was having a tough time. My guess is the Brits team agreed to leave the performance out...as acknowledgement that she'd already been put through hell with the threats. I'm pretty sure Victoria said something in her book about how this was the one night where she truly couldn't sing.
As a side note, the broadcast I've seen also leaves out Victoria's part of Goodbye. I don't know if those lines actually were performed that night...and were also cut...or if they were genuinely just performing a shorter arrangement. |
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13th January 2023, 02:44 PM
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#38
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BuzzJack Climber
Joined: 28 October 2019
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QUOTE(Piers @ Jan 13 2023, 06:16 AM) As a side note, the broadcast I've seen also leaves out Victoria's part of Goodbye. I don't know if those lines actually were performed that night...and were also cut...or if they were genuinely just performing a shorter arrangement. I've always wondered about that. Perhaps Victoria's part was cut in editing. If you notice some details you will see that in the supposedly cut part their voices are suddenly cut off. Victoria is making a movement with her hand and when the other angle appears, she has her hands down. The choir behind also seems to be moving (dancing). But confirmation can only come from those who were there. “the most important fans are here”, right? 😂 |
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14th January 2023, 08:47 PM
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#39
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Joined: 29 July 2012
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Reading the past few posts has been really interesting, I never knew any of this. (The stuff about the BRITs and the gap from performance to release.
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14th January 2023, 10:11 PM
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#40
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New Entry
Joined: 21 February 2018
Posts: 47 User: 67,132
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QUOTE(dromeda @ Jan 13 2023, 08:44 AM) I've always wondered about that. Perhaps Victoria's part was cut in editing. If you notice some details you will see that in the supposedly cut part their voices are suddenly cut off. Victoria is making a movement with her hand and when the other angle appears, she has her hands down. The choir behind also seems to be moving (dancing). But confirmation can only come from those who were there. “the most important fans are here”, right? 😂 I remembered finding audio of the full performance with Victoria’s part and I did a quick search and here it is: |
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