Girl Bands - Top 100 Singles & Top 40 Studio Albums

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Girl Bands - Top 100 Singles & Top 40 Studio Albums, ...of the past 25 years - OCC

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DanChartFan View member profile	13th June 2019, 08:22 PM Post #41
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 8 July 2007 Posts: 1,088 User: 3,866	QUOTE(Mateja @ Jun 13 2019, 08:48 PM) Chart positions and peaks don't matter that much in the streaming era. Streams trickle in overtime and accumulate. But they typically trickle from the same small group of people playing them week in week out, which, if anything means they are really rather smaller hits than one that sold a copy each to a much bigger group of people back in the day, even if the latter only charted for a few weeks at the time.


JosephBoone View member profile	13th June 2019, 08:28 PM Post #42
you never forget your first time... Pronouns: he/him Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,693 User: 13,530	QUOTE(DanChartFan @ Jun 13 2019, 09:22 PM) But they typically trickle from the same small group of people playing them week in week out, which, if anything means they are really rather smaller hits than one that sold a copy each to a much bigger group of people back in the day, even if the latter only charted for a few weeks at the time. However it's worth considering that it takes a LOAD of streams to even make 1 full sale these days. 100 streams = 1 sale if you're using Spotify Premium, and you can only have 10 streams a day maximum. I know only a select few songs a year reach 100 plays for me. Back in the day, CD singles often had 2 or 3 formats - you could go and buy it twice and it'd count for 2 sales instantly! That's instantly more than I'll contribute through Spotify towards my favourite songs nowadays. It'd actually take a large group of people to keep streams accumulating over time. This is why there's no real clear way of comparing - neither method is perfect. Downloads were probably the clearest way to compare like-for-like but obviously chucking everything together makes it blurry. Songs like Bad Vibe may not have peaked especially high but I'd argue it was bigger than a chunk of Girls Aloud's hits (as much as I love them). I'd find it a stretch to say something like Whole Lotta History was bigger using your reasoning...!


DanChartFan View member profile	13th June 2019, 08:29 PM Post #43
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 8 July 2007 Posts: 1,088 User: 3,866	QUOTE(JosephAvery @ Jun 13 2019, 08:51 PM) You're not wrong with this - Oops was definitely a notable hit and #41 in the streaming era means a hell of a lot more than #41 did during the 90s and 00s. It's undoubtedly inflated (like I said, due to a continued period of availability which the Spice Girls, Girls Aloud, Sugababes, etc songs didn't have at the time of their release) I'm not sure which way you are arguing here? Either #41 means more in the streaming era, which presumably means it's position in this list is a fiar reflection of that, OR the streaming hits are being inflated in this list compared to the non-streaming ones, in which case the position for it in this list is overly generous, meaning it should be lower. I can just about accept that #41 in the streaming era might be equivelant to perhaps #20-#25 in the old sales era, due to the number of bigger hits staying around longer in this era having the effect of pushing the lesser hits down somewhat, but I can't accept that it can have the effect of making such a low chart position in this era equate to some of the top 3 hits from the sales era


Sempachorra View member profile	13th June 2019, 08:31 PM Post #44
Let's Go Brandon Joined: 6 April 2006 Posts: 22,647 User: 421	Oops? What a joke of a list.


JosephBoone View member profile	13th June 2019, 08:37 PM Post #45
you never forget your first time... Pronouns: he/him Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,693 User: 13,530	QUOTE(DanChartFan @ Jun 13 2019, 09:29 PM) I'm not sure which way you are arguing here? Either #41 means more in the streaming era, which presumably means it's position in this list is a fiar reflection of that, OR the streaming hits are being inflated in this list compared to the non-streaming ones, in which case the position for it in this list is overly generous, meaning it should be lower. I can just about accept that #41 in the streaming era might be equivelant to perhaps #20-#25 in the old sales era, due to the number of bigger hits staying around longer in this era having the effect of pushing the lesser hits down somewhat, but I can't accept that it can have the effect of making such a low chart position in this era equate to some of the top 3 hits from the sales era I'm arguing both ways because both sides have fair points. #41 DOES mean more in the streaming era and that's pretty clear to anybody who follows the chart - Oops is way bigger than any given #41 hit from the 00s I'm sure. There is undoubtedly inflation too, which I explained in the quoted post - the availability of Oops over an extended period of time during its peak (as opposed to being deleted or relying on stock of shops) meant it could continue to rack up plays when it was at its most popular. I wouldn't say it's an overly-generous position because it's obviously popular, it's just had an unfair advantage. The thing is, the hits these days are hanging around longer and proving their continued popularity. That's where they prove themselves - peak positions matter less. Equally, a #3 hit from the sales era could have nosedived due to fanbase purchases in week 1. Ultimately, which is more popular? One has longevity and one has a higher peak. It's up to interpretation I guess but that's just how the chart landscape has changed.


DanChartFan View member profile	13th June 2019, 08:43 PM Post #46
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 8 July 2007 Posts: 1,088 User: 3,866	QUOTE(JosephAvery @ Jun 13 2019, 09:28 PM) However it's worth considering that it takes a LOAD of streams to even make 1 full sale these days. 100 streams = 1 sale if you're using Spotify Premium, and you can only have 10 streams a day maximum. I know only a select few songs a year reach 100 plays for me. Back in the day, CD singles often had 2 or 3 formats - you could go and buy it twice and it'd count for 2 sales instantly! That's instantly more than I'll contribute through Spotify towards my favourite songs nowadays. It'd actually take a large group of people to keep streams accumulating over time. This is why there's no real clear way of comparing - neither method is perfect. Downloads were probably the clearest way to compare like-for-like but obviously chucking everything together makes it blurry. Songs like Bad Vibe may not have peaked especially high but I'd argue it was bigger than a chunk of Girls Aloud's hits (as much as I love them). I'd find it a stretch to say something like Whole Lotta History was bigger using your reasoning...! The two purchases together is instantly more in that one week, but this sales list potentially takes into account a contribution of up to 0.7 sales every week until you get sick of playing the song. I realise most people aren't going to play a track 100 times a week, but even if they are only say doing a tenth of that, then a contribution of 0.07 a week, for say six months (probably realistic if they like the song), makes a 'sale' of 1.82, at which point even if their streams start to drop off in favour of newer hits they will still surely stream it from time to time thereafter, and probably easily reach or surpass the instant two sales of the sales era eventually. In the sales era however, there was a disincentive to buying two or more copies, in that it cost you more actual money, so whilst some people did buy multiple formats, and sometimes this had an effect on some close battles between #1 and #2, most of the time I imagine most people bought a single copy, and only a few hits might have been noticeably skewed by the effect of multi-formatting.


Bjork View member profile	13th June 2019, 08:52 PM Post #47
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 November 2015 Posts: 33,255 User: 22,665	QUOTE(DanChartFan @ Jun 13 2019, 10:43 PM) The two purchases together is instantly more in that one week, but this sales list potentially takes into account a contribution of up to 0.7 sales every week until you get sick of playing the song. I realise most people aren't going to play a track 100 times a week, but even if they are only say doing a tenth of that, then a contribution of 0.07 a week, for say six months (probably realistic if they like the song), makes a 'sale' of 1.82, at which point even if their streams start to drop off in favour of newer hits they will still surely stream it from time to time thereafter, and probably easily reach or surpass the instant two sales of the sales era eventually. In the sales era however, there was a disincentive to buying two or more copies, in that it cost you more actual money, so whilst some people did buy multiple formats, and sometimes this had an effect on some close battles between #1 and #2, most of the time I imagine most people bought a single copy, and only a few hits might have been noticeably skewed by the effect of multi-formatting. I think it's the opposite of what you say with streaming it takes lots of people to stream track to be successful, sure it's not a few people streaming a track forever, don't think you understand how streaming works tbh and back in the day fanbase buying multiformats had a massive effect, the skew was crazy in a weekly basis, think during britpop with the 5th single from Suede or Mansun's album making the top 10, that was all due to dedicated fans buying formats, now the 5th single of a Suede album wouldn't even make the top 1000


Tafty³³³ View member profile	13th June 2019, 09:11 PM Post #48
I found the love, I found the love in me Pronouns: He/Him Joined: 13 December 2007 Posts: 87,451 User: 5,042	Oops received a little bit of airplay and a primetime XF Finale performance slot (it was a couple of years before they were getting just 4m viewers or whatever 👀) I feel like SOTME, Touch, Black Magic, Wings, Secret Love Song (arguably their biggest WW hit) & possibly Power (it's constantly soundbedding VTs and things) are all well known and big enough to be up there and considered as some of the greatest girl group singles of all time, imo.


DanChartFan View member profile	13th June 2019, 09:12 PM Post #49
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 8 July 2007 Posts: 1,088 User: 3,866	QUOTE(Bjork @ Jun 13 2019, 09:52 PM) I think it's the opposite of what you say with streaming it takes lots of people to stream track to be successful, sure it's not a few people streaming a track forever, don't think you understand how streaming works tbh and back in the day fanbase buying multiformats had a massive effect, the skew was crazy in a weekly basis, think during britpop with the 5th single from Suede or Mansun's album making the top 10, that was all due to dedicated fans buying formats, now the 5th single of a Suede album wouldn't even make the top 1000 I stream music myself, so know how it work in principle. It depends what you mean by 'to be successful', if you mean chart position in the short term then sure you need a lot of people streaming in the weeks it's high up the charts (since there is a 10 plays per day per streamer cap), but some of these streaming hits never reached top 20 even (one missed the top 40), so aren't necessarily being streamed by such high numbers of people in the short term. The total lifetime sales however continues to count repeat plays from whoever was playing it originally, and over time that can easily become equivelant to two or three or more sales onto the lifetime total. Maybe though you also argue that many of the people who were force in the sales era to buy one whole copy would have stopped streaming it sooner in the streaming era and not contributed that much. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I know despite what this list appears to suggest that songs like Sugababes Round Round and Girls Aloud Love Machine are notably bigger and much more well known hits than Oops by Little Mix (which I'd never heard of (though having played it on youtube I do like it), which never reached the top 40, and which was never an officially released track in the first place, just an album track (though I acknowledge that the lines have become very blurred now in the streaming era).


sammy01 View member profile	13th June 2019, 09:12 PM Post #50
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 16 November 2009 Posts: 7,600 User: 9,988	The OCC would never do it because Little Mix fans would cry and moan but those 2016/17/18 songs need downgrading. It is obvious they got the ratio wrong at that time and let 'streaming sales' get completely out of control. It is a shame as many true hits are buried on lists like this as a result. This post has been edited by sammy01: 13th June 2019, 09:13 PM


Tafty³³³ View member profile	13th June 2019, 09:16 PM Post #51
I found the love, I found the love in me Pronouns: He/Him Joined: 13 December 2007 Posts: 87,451 User: 5,042	QUOTE(sammy01 @ Jun 13 2019, 10:12 PM) The OCC would never do it because Little Mix fans would cry and moan but those 2016/17/18 songs need downgrading. It is obvious they got the ratio wrong at that time and let 'streaming sales' get completely out of control. It is a shame as many true hits are buried on lists like this as a result. It's not "at the time". This is the same ratio for all the songs isn't it? When taking into account "total sales/points" (or whatever it is called nowadays lol) . So you can change the ratio all you want, they're all going to have the same ratio, aren't they? (Sorry I'm not 100% with chart stuff nowadays lol)


diamondtooth View member profile	13th June 2019, 09:30 PM Post #52
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 13 July 2007 Posts: 302 User: 3,909	I’m surprised Eternals album Always and Forever is not higher. Given that it was the first girlband album to sell over 1m in the U.K. And here it’s not even top 10. Also it’s chart run always pretty amazing. Maybe album sales were low back then in the ‘90’s.


DanChartFan View member profile	13th June 2019, 09:31 PM Post #53
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 8 July 2007 Posts: 1,088 User: 3,866	QUOTE(Jonjo @ Jun 13 2019, 10:16 PM) It's not "at the time". This is the same ratio for all the songs isn't it? When taking into account "total sales/points" (or whatever it is called nowadays lol) . So you can change the ratio all you want, they're all going to have the same ratio, aren't they? (Sorry I'm not 100% with chart stuff nowadays lol) No I think the 2016 hits are added on at whatever ratio was current then, and so on for each year, as the OCC maintains a continually updated sales total for each hit as each week's chart is added to all the lifetimes. I don't think the OCC has taken the time/effort and gone back and recalculated streams from past years for a ton of releases with a revised ratio (but am happy to be proved wrong, if this is the case).


slowdown73 View member profile	13th June 2019, 09:32 PM Post #54
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 3 August 2006 Posts: 8,209 User: 1,031	Wannabee is such a shockingly bad song to top the list. It’s so tacky it’s unreal.


The Hit Parade View member profile	13th June 2019, 09:38 PM Post #55
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 24 March 2013 Posts: 2,134 User: 18,521	QUOTE(Jay ☆ @ Jun 13 2019, 06:51 PM) They've overlooked 99 Souls - The Girl Is Mine, its credit included "feat. Destiny's Child"! No sign of She's Gone by Matthew Marsden Featuring Destiny's Child either! (yeah, I know)


JosephBoone View member profile	13th June 2019, 09:40 PM Post #56
you never forget your first time... Pronouns: he/him Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,693 User: 13,530	QUOTE(DanChartFan @ Jun 13 2019, 10:31 PM) No I think the 2016 hits are added on at whatever ratio was current then, and so on for each year, as the OCC maintains a continually updated sales total for each hit as each week's chart is added to all the lifetimes. I don't think the OCC has taken the time/effort and gone back and recalculated streams from past years for a ton of releases with a revised ratio (but am happy to be proved wrong, if this is the case). Streams from 2014-mid 2018 were all added to a song's total at a ratio of 100:1 (even when the ratio was 150:1, and ACR does not exist for total sales). Since mid 2018 it has remained at 100:1 for premium streams but reduced to 600:1 for ad-based services (ie. Free Spotify, YouTube, etc). They have not rewritten history (the OCC don't seem to like doing that these days, understandably so).


DanChartFan View member profile	13th June 2019, 09:42 PM Post #57
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 8 July 2007 Posts: 1,088 User: 3,866	QUOTE(slowdown73 @ Jun 13 2019, 10:32 PM) Wannabee is such a shockingly bad song to top the list. It’s so tacky it’s unreal. There's no denying it was a huge hit though, and that most people knew of it and could sing sing you a few bars. There's also no doubt that even today, nearly 23 years on, many people still love it.


Jordanlee View member profile	13th June 2019, 10:10 PM Post #58
Jord Joined: 12 March 2017 Posts: 10,772 User: 27,116	Crazy list there in places. Songs like MO’s track behind ahead of Girls Alouds The Promise and Sugababes Push The Button is crazy! They’re far more known with the GP! I totally thought Girls Aloud were a bit bigger sales wise than what they really were though even albums wise I thought their highest would be higher than the Sugababes highest. I knew Sugababes had more #1s but GA always felt more iconic. This post has been edited by Jordan Lee: 13th June 2019, 10:12 PM


sammy01 View member profile	13th June 2019, 10:16 PM Post #59
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 16 November 2009 Posts: 7,600 User: 9,988	QUOTE(slowdown73 @ Jun 13 2019, 10:32 PM) Wannabee is such a shockingly bad song to top the list. It’s so tacky it’s unreal. It was scientifically proven to be the most recognisable song of all time. It also for a song from the 90s that isn't a Christmas song has very high streams and YouTube views. It has stood the test of time in terms of popularity. It absolutely deserves to be at the top of this list. Speaking of Wannabe like some mid 90s songs its sales were downgraded by the OCC and the total 1.78m currently is the downgraded total. So if the OCC can downgrade 90s songs it can do those 2016/17/18 songs. As I say though social medis exists now and if Shout out to my ex total had a more relative streaming ratio applied and was downgraded to say 1m Little Mix fans would go ballistic on social media. It was evidently easier to quietly downgrade 90s songs where fanbases mainly stopped caring of their sales total. This post has been edited by sammy01: 13th June 2019, 10:18 PM


Liam.k. View member profile	13th June 2019, 10:55 PM Post #60
BuzzJack Idol Joined: 8 December 2010 Posts: 50,976 User: 12,472	I've added some sales to the opening post as a guide to what everything has sold. Last known sales for 'Never Ever' were 1.475m as of July 2018. That's 35k in the last 11 months, which works out as ~800 copies a week. Before that, its total was 1.43m as of September 2017 (45k in 10 months; ~1.1k a week). I'm guessing its current total can nearly be rounded up to 1.52m, which would push its weekly average closer to ~1k. 'Pure Shores' was on 954k as of July 2018, so at least 46k in the last 11 months now that we know it's definitely over 1m. Selling ~1k a week. 'Bootie Call' was on 258k as of September 2018 so must have just missed out. 'Work From Home' had sold 1.21m as of September 2017; 260k in the last 21 months and ~3.1k a week. 'Hold On' sold about 210k in 1990; total sales are ~545k. 'Stay' sold about 490k in 1992; total sales are ~775k. 'Push It' sold about 320k in 1988; total sales are nearly at 600k.