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> Eurovision Song Contest 2019 · Post Mortem
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SKOB
post May 19 2019, 10:41 AM
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But how could've they known that Norway got that much points from the televote compared to juries? It's not like EBU decided to do it this way in last minute. It was decided probably weeks ago.

I mean for the tension this system was perfect imo!


This post has been edited by SKOB: May 19 2019, 10:42 AM
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coi
post May 19 2019, 10:42 AM
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Yeah the big plus with that method of announcing votes was the incredibly tense moment at the end as they announce whether the Netherlands or Sweden won.
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Sinner
post May 19 2019, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE(Iz~ @ May 19 2019, 11:14 AM) *
They absolutely shouldn't have told us what figure Sweden needed to overtake indeed. I was annoyed at that but for a different reason: If in the event they HAD been able to overtake, or hadn't but came pretty close, the extra few seconds of tension while everyone does quick maths in their head is far preferable at times like these.
A conflation of statements that in putting that all up in mobile I moved a few steps too fast. The voting system is new, meaning records of along the lines of 'most gross points' are common because the voting system involves larger point numbers, twice the point numbers as previously. Therefore to talk about gaps and smashing records based on the actual number of points is a bit misleading and I don't like to do any that include contests with other voting systems as it isn't comparable. However it IS the largest gap between second-last and last, but that's because the previous two attempts were 1 points and 6 points respectively. Bigger Than Us is also only the third-least scored finalist on this system. Because literally only three contests have been done under it.



I get you now. What I took from your statement, and I was reading between the lines, is that : the voting system is new. It will take some time to bed down, so to speak and then the gap will get smaller between the last and second last place.

Which I could not figure out the possible reasons for, in my head.

Thanks for the detailed answer.
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Sinner
post May 19 2019, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE(SKOB @ May 19 2019, 11:41 AM) *
But how could've they known that Norway got that much points from the televote compared to juries? It's not like EBU decided to do it this way in last minute. It was decided probably weeks ago.

I mean for the tension this system was perfect imo!



Agreed. The way they had been doing it was great. I didn't think they were able to add more tension but they did.
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Sinner
post May 19 2019, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE(SKOB @ May 19 2019, 11:41 AM) *
But how could've they known that Norway got that much points from the televote compared to juries? It's not like EBU decided to do it this way in last minute. It was decided probably weeks ago.

I mean for the tension this system was perfect imo!



Agreed. The way they had been doing it was great. I didn't think they were able to add more tension but they did.
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*Tim
post May 19 2019, 10:56 AM
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QUOTE(SKOB @ May 19 2019, 10:41 AM) *
But how could've they known that Norway got that much points from the televote compared to juries? It's not like EBU decided to do it this way in last minute. It was decided probably weeks ago.

I mean for the tension this system was perfect imo!

It was horrible for my poor hearr and lungs. I'm pretty sure I stopped breathing for the whole time they kept repeating how many points Sweden needed
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Iz~
post May 19 2019, 11:06 AM
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There's problems with putting the televote reveal first as well, when the juries dethrone a televote winner the reaction could be much worse from the public. And tension wise it's hard to see it getting much better than this system.

I mean, the main issue is the jury makeup getting such different results from the public. There's only 5 of them, I've always said there need to be more (I assume the problem is cost) or they need to be more diverse and represent music industry professionals from a larger variety of musical backgrounds. The intent is to get an opinion from those who are experts in music, right? Then they shouldn't be able to ignore anything with obvious mass appeal unless it's clear novelty tripe, which Norway clearly wasn't. You need people who'll make up a more informed microcosm of the public's music taste, that can discern through 'populist' music (closest thing I can think of is San Marino this contest) and reward well put together songs.

I mean the list of official guidelines has it here:
  • The vocal capacity of the singer;
  • The performance on stage;
  • The composition and originality of the song;
  • The overall impression of the act.
Was Sweden original? Not really. Overall performance wasn't that memorable, so why did it win? North Macedonia not so much to an extent, but that can be countered by a favourable impression. So I'm looking at this list and I'm wondering, where was Iceland in the juries? It should have scored very favourably on all of these metrics... except if the juries just didn't like it because of their taste, which isn't what they're supposed to be scoring on. It's a very well put together song for its genre and there has been nothing else like it in the contest for years. Same for Norway, the technical harmonies, the performance, the originality, should have meant it scored highly. Hell MIKI of all people should have scored far higher on at least impression and performance. Slovenia too. Many of the jury darlings should be struck down for unoriginality.

Put simply, I don't think the current crop of singer-songwriters, singing teachers and label people are doing a good enough job of this:
QUOTE
You need people who'll make up a more informed microcosm of the public's music taste


See, at the moment, there's a type of song they'll go for, Sweden have got it nailed as to what it is and the public consistently find it boring and overdone, and there's far too great a disparity for such a small amount of people to be making up half the vote.
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AdamAloud
post May 19 2019, 11:10 AM
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It would've still been tense had it come down to had Norway got enough televote points to win imo. 261 televote points for second isn't much considering Jamala got 323 in 2016, there would've been a moment where there was a real possibility Norway had absolutely dominated the public vote and snatched it at the last moment. Doing it this way shifted the focus from the public winner to the jury winner and I don't really like that.
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Liаm
post May 19 2019, 11:26 AM
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It's not so much about Norway, of course they didn't know they would top the televote and not do so well on the jury when they decided it weeks if not months ago, but I think it just doesn't work in practice. As I said in another thread, it kind of robs the televote winner of their moment so nobody really knew that KEiiNO won the televote., I didn't realise until after when someone pointed it out because it's too tense and you're too into it to sit and do maths or hold the numbers in your head of who's where. I of course realised that they had a bloody good televote but because that's not a typical winning score I didn't click and that format didn't give you room to work it out or realise who won.

It's one of things though where the way that's "better" is going to depend on the results and obviously we don't that until after it's happened, but I think on balance the way they did it 2016-2018 was fine. It still splits the votes and gives the potential for that shock in the televote but it doesn't put too much emphasis on the jury. It was just a bit anticlimactic when the jury top 2 were hyped up so much and then got mediocre televote points in North Macedonia's case and good but not great in Sweden's case. The "normal" way rips off the bandage for them quicker and just gets onto their disappointment quicker laugh.gif
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Cqmerqn
post May 19 2019, 11:37 AM
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Vote for Arcade here tbh http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?s...p;#entry6240276
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Feel_The_Fever
post May 19 2019, 11:37 AM
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The new way was tense and exciting but I agree it does rob the televote winner of their moment as tgey never said at any point they topped the televote.

This post has been edited by Feel_The_Fever: May 19 2019, 11:38 AM
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TheJüpreme
post May 19 2019, 11:48 AM
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Surprised people are surprised at the UK result. You guys always send a competently performed track (sometimes not even that) that sounds nothing like anything on the radio or remotely modern, you have english as a first language yet your lyrics are always shite and trite, and lately you're the country that's stuck up a middle finger to Europe with Brexit. Any one of those things alone would be damning.
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*Tim
post May 19 2019, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE(TheJüpreme @ May 19 2019, 11:48 AM) *
Surprised people are surprised at the UK result. You guys always send a competently performed track (sometimes not even that) that sounds nothing like anything on the radio or remotely modern, you have english as a first language yet your lyrics are always shite and trite, and lately you're the country that's stuck up a middle finger to Europe with Brexit. Any one of those things alone would be damning.

How do they expect people to love their song, when they don't even stan it themselves
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Feel_The_Fever
post May 19 2019, 11:56 AM
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Brexit effects Ireland greatly put still gave UK 3 points so some people in my opinion purely base the vote on the song they like and not which country they like or dont like.
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TheJüpreme
post May 19 2019, 12:06 PM
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Sure, but it won't be helping.
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Suedehead2
post May 19 2019, 12:11 PM
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The problem with the previous method of announcing the votes is that it potentially makes it easy to work out who has won. If, for example, a country is given 250 points, you know that whoever is left has got at least 250 points. With yesterday's method, you could only work it out by keeping a tally of how many points remained to be allocated.

The point about the winner of the public vote being unacknowledged is easily remedied. All they need to do is show, for example, the top three scores to date on the screen somewhere.
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*Tim
post May 19 2019, 12:12 PM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ May 19 2019, 12:11 PM) *
The problem with the previous method of announcing the votes is that it potentially makes it easy to work out who has won. If, for example, a country is given 250 points, you know that whoever is left has got at least 250 points. With yesterday's method, you could only work it out by keeping a tally of how many points remained to be allocated.

The point about the winner of the public vote being unacknowledged is easily remedied. All they need to do is show, for example, the top three scores to date on the screen somewhere.

Tbh this would be great. That way people known "all 3 winners"
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Klaus
post May 19 2019, 12:16 PM
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There just needs to be greater recognition of what the public votes are/mean.

As I said, most people will have come away last night thinking the Top 2 is Netherlands/Sweden.

I definitely agree wuth Iz that there needs to be more people on the juries.
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Feel_The_Fever
post May 19 2019, 12:33 PM
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The juries seem very dated going by the results and the gap between juries and televotes is far to big which to me shows something isnt working. The North Macedonia and Norway votes show that clearly.
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*Tim
post May 19 2019, 12:35 PM
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North Macedonia was a song of high quality with immense vocals and excellent staging. It's just not a song that's gonna get a lot of people to pick up the phone

That's why I like the juries. It's not just about spectacle to attract as much attention as possible but also about the qualoty of the songs and the sometimes raw emotion
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