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 EU/Brexit Discussion Thread III, Here we go again. |
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 May 21 2018, 07:08 PM
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#1
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 Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455 
    
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Time for a new thread, as the last EU/Brexit thread was getting rather big for its metaphorical boots. As usual, the same disclaimers, intelligent discussion about the issues at hand welcome, please no repeating the same point ad infinitum, no ad hominum attacks of fellow members, although robust arguments over the points and political positions brought forward by other members is very much welcome.
To kick this thread off, a recent opinion poll from Ipsos Mori indicates that 69% of people in NI want to remain part of the EU (although caveats are that it doesn't state whether they want the UK or just NI to remain in the EU, the fieldwork took place in March, so things could have changed since then). Although conversely, another recent poll showed that only 21% would support a United Ireland, an arrangement that would guarantee NI remaining in the EU. |
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May 21 2018, 07:14 PM
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#2
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,812 User: 17,376
 
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Yes The Guardian article and the left-wing Billy Bragg retweeting it suggests that the border problems might well be an issue on Brexit and how people change their minds on it. Who knew!!!???
Wonder if Billy could have a chat with Jeremy.... |
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May 22 2018, 11:58 AM
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#3
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,812 User: 17,376
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Bank of England governor Mark Carney tells the Treasury Select Committee that Brexit means real household incomes are about £900 lower than forecast in May 2016, "which is a lot of money"
On behalf of all Remain voters can I just say a HUUUUGE thank you to Brexiters for making sure that Operation Fear continues to come true. Looking forward immensely to seeing how we do once we actually leave rather than just damage from talking about leaving... |
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May 22 2018, 01:52 PM
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#4
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ May 22 2018, 12:58 PM)  Bank of England governor Mark Carney tells the Treasury Select Committee that Brexit means real household incomes are about £900 lower than forecast in May 2016, "which is a lot of money" How do they separate that out from the impact of austerity measures? |
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May 22 2018, 07:43 PM
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#5
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 22 2018, 02:52 PM) How do they separate that out from the impact of austerity measures? Ask him, I didn't say it, and he's in charge of the economy and was rather good at it in non-2008-Banking-catastrophe Canada.... (PS Austerity is 10 years old, I'm just guessing mind you, that they had already factored that into the initial forecast and this was extra icing on top...) (PPS he was appointed by a Tory PM, and continues to be employed under contract by a Tory PM, so I imagine he would be fired if it was a political untruth) (PPPS he's Chairman of the G20 Financial Stability Board so I imagine he's pretty much held in high regard worldwide as knowing a thing or two about economic crises and how to avoid them, or reduce the impact of them) (PPPPS He reduced the impact of Brexit immediately after the referendum by pumping billions of pounds into the tanking UK economy) Still, what do experts know, eh? |
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May 22 2018, 09:08 PM
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 Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
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We've had QUITE enough of listening to experts who know what they're talking about, and want more critically stupid public schoolboys doing the bidding of the tabloid Murdoch press!
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May 23 2018, 02:37 PM
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#7
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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I don't know what the political stance of the Evening Standard is, but here's an article from there...
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/margare...d-a3845471.html What a turn up for the books. First, Hans-Olaf Henkel, one of Germany’s leading industrialists and member of the European Parliament, says that Britain quitting the EU is an epic disaster because with us leaving, “the last country with common sense leaves the EU”. This post has been edited by vidcapper: May 23 2018, 02:37 PM |
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May 23 2018, 02:42 PM
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#8
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
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Yet, all across the continent there has been a massive upswing in support of the EU because of the UK's right wing coup disaster.
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May 23 2018, 08:53 PM
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#9
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 23 2018, 03:37 PM) I don't know what the political stance of the Evening Standard is, but here's an article from there... https://www.standard.co.uk/business/margare...d-a3845471.html What a turn up for the books. First, Hans-Olaf Henkel, one of Germany’s leading industrialists and member of the European Parliament, says that Britain quitting the EU is an epic disaster because with us leaving, “the last country with common sense leaves the EU”. It's unified the EU quite nicely now everyone has a good example of what lies ahead outside of the EU. And the UK's decision seems to nullify the bit about common sense - though he is talking about British influence on EU policy which has been instrumental over the decades and agreed with by British politicians every step of the way, and when we didn't agree we got special dispensation most of the time other than the 4 cornerstones. Presumably he sees the people who voted for Brexit causing the disaster as there's no-one else to blame.... Thanks for confirming that view a sit's unlikely that something that is a disaster for the EU is going to be a major triumph for the UK in any way whatsoever. Or it's just the opinion of one man, though the leaders in the EU have consistently said they are sad the UK is leaving, but they'll survive without giving in to the demands of the UK as we were promised in the referendum by the people now failing to make the EU give in to any of our demands at all. Who knew?!! |
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May 23 2018, 09:31 PM
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 23 2018, 03:37 PM) I don't know what the political stance of the Evening Standard is, but here's an article from there... Some clues... It used to be described as the Evening Boris A previous editor played a major part in Boris Johnson's first mayoral campaign The current editor is Gideon Osborne I think we can take it for granted that it is not a Labour-supporting paper. |
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May 24 2018, 06:00 AM
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#11
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ May 23 2018, 09:53 PM) It's unified the EU quite nicely now everyone has a good example of what lies ahead outside of the EU. I think that's a bit of a stretch - at most, it shows just how hard the EU will make it for anyone else to leave their gilded cage. |
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May 24 2018, 06:54 AM
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#12
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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Apparently Brexit DOESN'T mean Brexit to the morons in charge having a strop.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44232269 In other words "how VERY dare you not let us pick and choose the bits about the EU we love and get rid of the bits we don't like"... |
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May 24 2018, 06:58 AM
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#13
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 24 2018, 07:00 AM) I think that's a bit of a stretch - at most, it shows just how hard the EU will make it for anyone else to leave their gilded cage. No, it's a dose of reality to all countries how torturous it is in reality to actually do something that was claimed to be a piece of piss by the liars lying about leaving. PS you have just switched your regular argument ("I voted to regain political control") to one of the other excuses ("it's all the EU's fault things are going tits up"). Most people in polls believe quite rightly that whatever happens it's the fault of the UK having made a choice, and not the EU which will continue providing benefits to the members that don't wish to leave and which the lying Brexiters claimed would be open to non-EU countries after leaving because the UK is SPECIAL and UNIQUE and Germans need us to buy their cars. Lies of course. |
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May 24 2018, 07:18 AM
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#14
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ May 24 2018, 07:58 AM) No, it's a dose of reality to all countries how torturous it is in reality to actually do something that was claimed to be a piece of piss by the liars lying about leaving. In other words 'you say pot-ay-to, I say pot-ah-to'?  QUOTE PS you have just switched your regular argument ("I voted to regain political control") to one of the other excuses ("it's all the EU's fault things are going tits up"). Pardon me - I didn't realise I was only allowed to have *one* line of argument. |
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May 24 2018, 07:35 AM
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#15
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 24 2018, 08:18 AM) In other words 'you say pot-ay-to, I say pot-ah-to'? Pardon me - I didn't realise I was only allowed to have *one* line of argument. 1. No, they lied on the Leave campaign. Virtually everything said by the Remain campaign has been correct to date (we still havent left) 2. You are only allowed to have one line of argument when you have claimed many times in the past that you only voted for one reason. PS it's not an argument, it's propaganda. Stay in the EU you continue to get the benefits. leave, you don't. It really is that simple. Otherwise it's not the EU, it's the EU plus special freind who isnt subject to the same rules as everyone else who doesnt pay to have access to the EU or have actual agreements. Feel free to point out other countries that have special arrangements that they dont pay for..... |
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May 24 2018, 07:40 AM
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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The customs system favoured by the brain dead morons in charge would cost UK business £20bn. 3 times more than the cost of our EU membership.
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May 24 2018, 08:17 AM
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ May 24 2018, 08:35 AM) 1. No, they lied on the Leave campaign. Virtually everything said by the Remain campaign has been correct to date (we still havent left) 2. You are only allowed to have one line of argument when you have claimed many times in the past that you only voted for one reason. PS it's not an argument, it's propaganda. Stay in the EU you continue to get the benefits. leave, you don't. It really is that simple. Otherwise it's not the EU, it's the EU plus special freind who isnt subject to the same rules as everyone else who doesnt pay to have access to the EU or have actual agreements. Feel free to point out other countries that have special arrangements that they dont pay for..... 1. No doubt you are expecting me to say 'Tough luck, you still lost'? IMO Remainers would have been just as arrogant if they'd won, though. 2. I voted for one *main* reason - I never said their weren't others too - its you that claim any reasons I cite are invalid. I can't speak for anyone else, but I knew perfectly well that a vote to Leave meant a Hard Brexit. |
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May 24 2018, 11:52 AM
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,812 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 24 2018, 09:25 AM) 1. Whose this 'we' you are talking about - surely if we were happy about it, we wouldn't have voted for Brexit? 2. That's why I posted my comment as a question, rather than a statement. And I wouldn't have even mentioned the ethical aspect if I wasn't against unethical business practices - I assumed that would be blindingly obvious to anyone here! 1. whats brexit got to do with foreign billionaires? if anything the EU is chasing them in new legislation coming in 2019. co-incidentally just after we leave..... funny that, almost as if the tory millionaires were afraid they be forced to reveal where their money is (Hint: offshore) 2. Never blindingly obvious what your views are on any subject because you regularly say you have right to withhold them and not make any comments. Besides which you are consistently contradictory. See (1) above for an example. Or reading the daily mail a paper owned by an EU-dwelling billionaire, or supporting Farage, a public-school millionaire who keeps bankrupting himself through his own uselessness. Trusting millionaires seems to be a "thing".... |
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May 24 2018, 12:01 PM
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#19
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,812 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ May 24 2018, 09:17 AM) 1. No doubt you are expecting me to say 'Tough luck, you still lost'? IMO Remainers would have been just as arrogant if they'd won, though. 2. I voted for one *main* reason - I never said their weren't others too - its you that claim any reasons I cite are invalid. I can't speak for anyone else, but I knew perfectly well that a vote to Leave meant a Hard Brexit. 1. No we wouldnt. Life would have carried on as if it never happened and Farage would have kept on moaning demanding another referendum as the result was too close to call. 2. No, facts claim your reasons are invalid. Explain why the EU should give the UK a deal that no other country in the world has with the EU. If you can't come up with a single reason that stands up to scrutiny then your comment is just bitchin' propaganda rather than based on the reality of making a trade deal with a non-EU country (which usually takes up to a decade or two). 3. But you kept on (until last week) trying to speak for other people, saying they all voted for the same result and reason. It appears we have had a breakthrough on reality   BTW looking more and more like the Tories are being forced into providing that NHS 350m (nothing to do with Brexit agreement we havent got yet though) - it's to put the NHS back into it's normal increases (over 10 years) to avoid looking like a complete bunch of lying tosspots about that bloody bus. They have been forced into it by the top of the NHS making a statement that embarrasses the government (ie the people who lied about it and made it an issue linked to the EU).... Hoist. Petard. |
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May 24 2018, 01:12 PM
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ May 24 2018, 01:01 PM) Hoist. Petard. DGAC. |
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