The lovely discussion of all things EU and/or Brexit

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The lovely discussion of all things EU and/or Brexit, Part IV

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Popchartfreak View member profile	Jul 18 2018, 11:41 AM Post #21
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 18 July 2012 Posts: 22,811 User: 17,376	QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jul 18 2018, 09:56 AM) Well, this one would still vote for Brexit anyway, since, as I've said all along, I believe it is a naive & shortsighted move for a country to give up its economic & political independence. No shit? Some of us think giving up our economic prosperity for something that didn't bother us in the slightest and meant we could live and work throughout Europe is naive and shortsighted. Guess who had to lie and engage in illegal acts supported by a foreign power to make their case.... (Hint it isn't the EU and it's not Remain)


Long Dong Silver View member profile	Jul 18 2018, 12:51 PM Post #22
Buffy/Charmed Joined: 18 April 2013 Posts: 44,023 User: 18,639	I'm sorry but weren't you making the case not so lonh ago that there would be no economic problems and more opportunities on leaving??


vidcapper View member profile	Jul 18 2018, 01:43 PM Post #23
Paul Hyett Joined: 4 April 2006 Posts: 25,346 User: 364	QUOTE(Queef of Skreech @ Jul 18 2018, 01:51 PM) I'm sorry but weren't you making the case not so lonh ago that there would be no economic problems and more opportunities on leaving?? But didn't you dismiss that as Mial propaganda?


Silas View member profile	Jul 18 2018, 05:11 PM Post #24
Queen of Soon Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 74,064 User: 3,474	We gave up neither economic or political independence 🙄


vidcapper View member profile	Jul 19 2018, 05:49 AM Post #25
Paul Hyett Joined: 4 April 2006 Posts: 25,346 User: 364	QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jul 18 2018, 06:11 PM) We gave up neither economic or political independence 🙄 Oh really? There are actions we cannot take unilaterally that we could before we joined - setting VAT rates being just one example.


vidcapper View member profile	Jul 19 2018, 06:03 AM Post #26
Paul Hyett Joined: 4 April 2006 Posts: 25,346 User: 364	Police should brace for a surge of hate crimes when leaving the EU, watchdog warns citing the sharp increase of vile attacks in the aftermath of Brexit vote Original stats saw increase in racially/religiously motivated crimes post-Brexit Now they are being disputed as police believe they were wrongly categorised HM Inspectorate of Constabulary is still warning of more crimes after March 29 http://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-596855...-leaves-EU.html


Popchartfreak View member profile	Jul 19 2018, 06:48 AM Post #27
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 18 July 2012 Posts: 22,811 User: 17,376	QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jul 19 2018, 06:49 AM) Oh really? There are actions we cannot take unilaterally that we could before we joined - setting VAT rates being just one example. VAT rates are set by the government not the EU. Thatcher brought them in. It's a tax on goods sold, sounds like you are hoping they go up, cos they sure as hell won't go down when we lose billions in income from banks buggering off to the EU....


Popchartfreak View member profile	Jul 19 2018, 06:50 AM Post #28
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 18 July 2012 Posts: 22,811 User: 17,376	QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jul 19 2018, 07:03 AM) Police should brace for a surge of hate crimes when leaving the EU, watchdog warns citing the sharp increase of vile attacks in the aftermath of Brexit vote Original stats saw increase in racially/religiously motivated crimes post-Brexit Now they are being disputed as police believe they were wrongly categorised HM Inspectorate of Constabulary is still warning of more crimes after March 29 http://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-596855...-leaves-EU.html Daily Fail trying to make excuses again.... Of course it will go up. We are all going to be poorer, less money for policing, less money for poor people, more angry poor people looking for someone to blame, that someone is invariably foreigners because folk are too thick to realise it's themselves causing the problem voting in useless governments.


Popchartfreak View member profile	Jul 19 2018, 06:56 AM Post #29
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 18 July 2012 Posts: 22,811 User: 17,376	dilemma for the news press today: Boris hate the EU, what a disaster May is (recall all those I Theresa headlines, ahhh happy days) or Cliff ruling means we can't slag off celebrities in public until theyve been charged, and then we're stuck with contempt of court if we speculate on their guilt. So no more front page salacious headlines to sell papers as we ruin people's lives. Most go with both, a few one or the other. Remember all those Leaver claims it would be a piece of piss leaving and the EU would roll over to sell their cars to us and give us everything we want? Remember Corbyn saying article 50 should be triggered the next day? Each and everyone of them is a moron, a useless politician so obsessed with their own fantasy version of the world as they want it that they ignore the world as it really is. Worth repeating to remind them all till the day they die, especially if the UK economy is devastated as a result.


Suedehead2 View member profile	Jul 19 2018, 08:26 AM Post #30
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,651 User: 3,272	Oh look, Davey Davy has had a sudden change of heart. Having spent so much of the little time he spent working as a minister trying to prevent his department having to release any information at all, he now wants Mayhem to publish Whitehall work on a trade deal. Hypocrite doesn’t even come close to describing this ghastly man.


vidcapper View member profile	Jul 19 2018, 10:59 AM Post #31
Paul Hyett Joined: 4 April 2006 Posts: 25,346 User: 364	QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 19 2018, 09:26 AM) Oh look, Davey Davy has had a sudden change of heart. Having spent so much of the little time he spent working as a minister trying to prevent his department having to release any information at all, he now wants Mayhem to publish Whitehall work on a trade deal. Hypocrite doesn’t even come close to describing this ghastly man. Well, he is a politician... BTW, I quite like it when this forum complains about the Tories, as it gives me a bit of a respite.


vidcapper View member profile	Jul 19 2018, 11:03 AM Post #32
Paul Hyett Joined: 4 April 2006 Posts: 25,346 User: 364	QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jul 19 2018, 07:50 AM) Daily Fail trying to make excuses again.... Of course it will go up. We are all going to be poorer, less money for policing, less money for poor people, more angry poor people looking for someone to blame, that someone is invariably foreigners because folk are too thick to realise it's themselves causing the problem voting in useless governments. So you agree it's wrong to make scapegoats?


Long Dong Silver View member profile	Jul 19 2018, 11:39 AM Post #33
Buffy/Charmed Joined: 18 April 2013 Posts: 44,023 User: 18,639	QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jul 19 2018, 06:49 AM) Oh really? There are actions we cannot take unilaterally that we could before we joined - setting VAT rates being just one example. That is totally false. I remember Spain having a VAT rate of 21% because they set it that high. UK didn't. EU didn't impose it on anyone.


Silas View member profile	Jul 19 2018, 06:59 PM Post #34
Queen of Soon Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 74,064 User: 3,474	QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jul 19 2018, 07:49 AM) Oh really? There are actions we cannot take unilaterally that we could before we joined - setting VAT rates being just one example. You picked the wrong subject my friend. I deal with EU VAT compliance for a living. We can set our own VAT rates. The standard rate of VAT can be no lower than 15%, a figure that was agreed to by the UK. We can change our standard rate at any time to any rate from 15.0% and upwards. We are entitled to have multiple rates of over than 15% and can split the standard rated items list among them in any way we see fit. There is a universally agreed upon list of items that can be reduced rated. It is entirely up to us if we charge anything that reduced rate, Denmark do not. We can have as many reduced rates as we would like as long as it's no lower than 5% and we can split items between these rates as we see fit. The UK maintains a list of items it is entitled to zero rate. We are not able to add anything to this, however we can remove items are our free will. This is because we have agreed that everything should be subject to VAT of no less than 5%, but elected not to give up our zero rate at the very start of the EU VAT Act. To make any changes to the EU VAT Act, every single member state must agree the change. This is why we have a zero rate of VAT. We don't want to change that rate and we do not have to. The EU VAT Act is a fantastic bit of legislation that is an essential part of the Single Market and, while lengthy, is actually a well written bit of EU law that is extremely effective. The common basis means that while each member state transcribes it into law in it's own unique ways, with it's own unique quirks, the standard base makes it much easier for multinational business to operate and comply. QUOTE(Queef of Skreech @ Jul 19 2018, 01:39 PM) That is totally false. I remember Spain having a VAT rate of 21% because they set it that high. UK didn't. EU didn't impose it on anyone. Completely correct


Popchartfreak View member profile	Jul 19 2018, 08:24 PM Post #35
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 18 July 2012 Posts: 22,811 User: 17,376	QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jul 19 2018, 12:03 PM) So you agree it's wrong to make scapegoats? I can't agree with the premise that it's wrong to make scapegoats when you have never mentioned scapegoats. I never read the article. For the record, making scapegoats of innocent people is always wrong. Blaming liars for being a bit liarey is always right. Blaming racists for being racist is entirely 100% always right. I hope that clarifies my position.


vidcapper View member profile	Jul 20 2018, 05:40 AM Post #36
Paul Hyett Joined: 4 April 2006 Posts: 25,346 User: 364	QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jul 19 2018, 07:59 PM) You picked the wrong subject my friend. I deal with EU VAT compliance for a living. We can set our own VAT rates. But do we have exactly the same scope to alter them at will, as we did before we joined, that's my point?


vidcapper View member profile	Jul 20 2018, 05:45 AM Post #37
Paul Hyett Joined: 4 April 2006 Posts: 25,346 User: 364	QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jul 19 2018, 07:50 AM) Daily Fail trying to make excuses again.... Of course it will go up. We are all going to be poorer, less money for policing, less money for poor people, more angry poor people looking for someone to blame, that someone is invariably foreigners because folk are too thick to realise it's themselves causing the problem voting in useless governments. QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jul 19 2018, 09:24 PM) I can't agree with the premise that it's wrong to make scapegoats when you have never mentioned scapegoats. But you have, albeit circumspectly - see above. QUOTE For the record, making scapegoats of innocent people is always wrong. Blaming liars for being a bit liarey is always right. Blaming racists for being racist is entirely 100% always right. I hope that clarifies my position. Then perhaps you'll stop making me a scapegoat for 17.4m others - unless you are prepared to come right out and call me a racist?


Popchartfreak View member profile	Jul 20 2018, 07:18 AM Post #38
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 18 July 2012 Posts: 22,811 User: 17,376	QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jul 20 2018, 06:45 AM) But you have, albeit circumspectly - see above. Then perhaps you'll stop making me a scapegoat for 17.4m others - unless you are prepared to come right out and call me a racist? Let me be very clear. I have never made you a scapegoat for anything. That you choose to view yourself as a martyr of some sorts is your choice. This is a public thread to talk about events. If you choose to talk about events and opinions, other people have a right to argue against your opinions. I have never said you represent the views of 17.4 m others, I have consistently stated you do NOT represent the views of 17.4m others every time you claim to do exactly that. Your reading skills and memory skills need improvement. Feel free to go back and read every comment you have ever made, and every comment I have ever made, it's all on file, factual. I realise that's not something you put much store in, but I do....


Popchartfreak View member profile	Jul 20 2018, 07:22 AM Post #39
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 18 July 2012 Posts: 22,811 User: 17,376	meanwhile, here's a Big Thing that appears to about to be released as a Big Thing (subject to provisio that if it has leaked out May will spin it differently): Peter Geoghegan ‏ I hinted at this earlier but seeing as it's now in public domain... tomorrow, in Belfast, Theresa May is going to announce that Northern Irish backstop proposal - which she signed up to in December - is dead. Language is provocative. Brussels will surely interpret as bad faithPeter Geoghegan added, Jo Maugham QC Verified account This is embargoed til 10pm but it wasn't given to me under embargo and don't see why we should play to the Government's news cycle. "


Doctor Blind View member profile	Jul 20 2018, 07:28 AM Post #40
#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue' Joined: 27 October 2008 Posts: 16,170 User: 7,561	Oh, you mean the deal that 'we didn't think she'd get' and that they've been crowing about since December last year as a massive success? That one? Good to know that the Conservatives are treating the Good Friday/Belfast agreement with about the same respect that they have for female MPs who have just given birth.