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> The Official Labour Foot-Shoot Thread, Mk II
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mald487
post Wednesday, 01:28 PM
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Talking for personal experience..Iceland(a small but rich country) is an example of how socialism CAN work very well.

It's not without it's faults. Taxes here are high, but wealth disparity is much smaller that the vast majority of other places in Europe and most vunerable people in society are taken care of quite well.

Of course Iceland only has a population of 350,000. However the point still stands that socialism should not be unfairly dismissed in the way that it often is.

The old "oh yeah yeah socialism Venezuela *rolls eyes*" knee jerk reaction is lazy and rather tedious and boring to deal with to be honest.


This post has been edited by mald487: Wednesday, 01:31 PM
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Tones and Iz
post Wednesday, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE(Algernon Monqueef @ Oct 9 2019, 10:10 AM) *
False dichotomy. Not all capitalist governments are rich and not all socialist onrs are poor. There is a global rich and global network where the rich lobby and pressure for late neoliberal capitalism.


Go on, which ones?

Actually my rebuttal would be that people are not fleeing from and fleeing to countries based on the economic policies of their governments, they flee because of war, discrimination or poverty, and this happens in capitalist nations with huge numbers of poor people like India and the nations of sub-Saharan Africa.

My view on socialism is that it needs to be something society is constantly working towards to get right, and capitalism needs to be something that is constantly being let go of to curb its worst excesses. Because unfettered capitalism is just as exploitative and degrading to human lives as low-tech socialism, but the ultimate goal is something that is more socialist than capitalist.
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vidcapper
post Thursday, 05:10 AM
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QUOTE(Algernon Monqueef @ Oct 9 2019, 11:10 AM) *
False dichotomy. Not all capitalist governments are rich and not all socialist onrs are poor. There is a global rich and global network where the rich lobby and pressure for late neoliberal capitalism.

Question for Vid, if capitalism is the bees' knees, then why have the socialists saved the Portuguese economy and been returned on a larger majority? And why would the UK economy by all forecasts by 5% larger under a Lab gov? And why do the NHS, fire service and roads all work sp well when properly funded and nor purposefully Tory mismanaged? And why did Iceland recover faster by adopting socialist proposals in the credit crunch vs the capitalist countries?


It depends how *much* socialism you allow...

It has its place, as in the NHS, but must never be allowed to dominate, as Corbyn appears to desire.
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Trick Or Queef!
post Thursday, 09:31 AM
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And yet socialism is the future. Sorry sad.gif
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Tones and Iz
post Thursday, 01:05 PM
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Well, it's the future, but it would be helpful to spread the message of HOW we get there.

Because either we die in a late-stage-capitalist hellscape or there is socialism. Increasing technology will see to that. Supporting parties that currently promote democratic socialism like Corbyn's, yet are still pro-business and creating jobs (see this rather wonderful policy they came out with today about a fivefold increase in wind energy) are necessary so we have less of a violent transition once people finally realise that life is not about creating profit for a tiny number of people to have more than anyone could ever possibly need. Which will become apparent at the automation turning point.
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