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BuzzJack Music Forum _ News and Politics _ Shooting in Orlando
Posted by: danG 12th June 2016, 09:37 AM
Another shooting happened in Orlando just recently 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/36510272
9 minutes ago
Eyewitness Anthony Torres fled the scene and filmed as he watched people shooting "back and forth"
There are multiple injuries after an attacker opened fire inside a gay nightclub in the Florida city of Orlando, police say.
The attacker is reported to still be inside the Pulse Club and to have taken hostages.
A bomb squad and hazardous material team are at the scene, the Associated Press reports. Orlando Police say they carried out a controlled explosion.
Some reports say at least 20 shots were heard inside the club.
One witness told local TV reporter Stewart Moore that his friend was still locked inside the building with a gunshot wound.
Mr Moore, in an earlier tweet, said a source told him that the attacker was suspected to have a bomb.
Video footage being shared on social media showed dozens of emergency vehicles at the scene and people being treated on the pavements.
Pulse Facebook: Everyone get out of pulse and keep running
The club posted this message as reports of a shooting were emerging
More than 100 people were reported to have been enjoying a Latin-themed night in the club, which is situated near Orange and Kaley avenue.
Ricardo Negron Almodovar told BBC News that the shooter opened fire at around 02:00 local time (06:00 GMT), as the club night was coming to a close.
"We heard rapid fire go off. In the room I was in, people went down to the floor. I wasn't able to see the shooter or people get hurt.
"At some point, there was a brief pause, and a group of us got up and went to the exit that leads to the patio area outside. We found an exit and after that... I just ran."
Another man, Anthony Torres, said he heard people screaming that others in the nightclub were dead.
The incident comes as Orlando is still reeling from the fatal shooting on Friday night of 22-year-old singer Christina Grimmie following a concert in the city.
She had been signing autographs when she was shot by 26-year-old Kevin James Loibl, who then killed himself. It is not clear what Loibl's motive was.
they really need to do something about gun control laws in Orlando (and the rest of USA)
Posted by: Scene 12th June 2016, 09:46 AM
Oh shit!! This is seriously f***ed up.
Posted by: *Tim 12th June 2016, 09:46 AM
Oh god 
Edit: Maybe someone split this thread? Since its completely jnrelated from the cristina shooting
Posted by: Liаm 12th June 2016, 09:51 AM
7 have died so far And they still won't bat an eyelid towards the gun laws. Like everyone's said if the elementary school shooting didn't change anything then nor will Christina's death or these sadly
And yeah I agree split the thread, this is also a big thing in itself like Christina's death was a big thing in itself compared to the Celebrity RIP thread, so in the same way this shouldn't be contained in another thread imo.
Posted by: Rooney 12th June 2016, 11:30 AM
Split topics up.
Posted by: princess_lotti 12th June 2016, 11:32 AM
This was such sad news to wake up to my heart goes out to all of the victims of the attack. Just terrifying
Posted by: Maurice 12th June 2016, 11:37 AM
Orlando Police: Approximately 20 dead within nightclub; law enforcement has not yet confirmed suspect identity.
Posted by: Silas 12th June 2016, 11:52 AM
Given that American's cannot spell simple words like Colour correctly, should they really be trusted with firearms??
All joking aside, the Gun Control debate in America is such an utter shitshow. Come on guys, when a mentally unstable person can walk into a school and kill a bunch of children the problem isn't that there is too few guns, it's that there are too many and there is too little control over who they go to.
Personally I think America's problem has a lot to do with it's gun culture. Regulation won't make a change unless there is a change in the countries attitude towards guns.
Posted by: Mack 12th June 2016, 11:54 AM
Surely now, there has to be something done with gun control.
Looks like this may have been a terror-related attack.
Posted by: Silas 12th June 2016, 12:03 PM
Looks like this may have been a terror-related attack.
Watch how fast the T word is dropped when the attacker turns out to be a white christian.
Posted by: Doctor Blind 12th June 2016, 12:26 PM
Another appalling tragedy!
Yes, as with Anders Breivik where initial reports focussed on it being the work of Islamic militants.
To be honest gun control won't ever be completely changed in America for a few generations yet, but we will continue to see a slow gradual change in societies views over the next few decades. Even Bernie Sanders is not fully supportive of much stronger gun laws, so it will take a LONG time for it to become mainstream, and yes- inevitably and sadly with the loss of many more innocent lives.
Posted by: Rooney 12th June 2016, 12:28 PM
Said it in the previous thread, but until something that kills 1000s I cannot see a change to gun control. You would need a Republican president who is anti-guns and I cannot see that happening, as you lose a lot of your core support straight away with that stance. It's really sad to see.
Posted by: princess_lotti 12th June 2016, 12:32 PM
Even tiny gun change reform gets completely shut down, Obama tried earlier this year. It will take something completely drastic to make it change, which is horrifying
Posted by: Brett-Butler 12th June 2016, 12:34 PM
Yes, as with Anders Breivik where initial reports focussed on it being the work of Islamic militants.
Anders Brevik wasn't a Christian.
Posted by: Silas 12th June 2016, 12:37 PM
Indeed! I was watching Fox News as that unfolded (I was at a friends in the southern US at the time) and it was staggering just how quickly they went there. Honestly, a F1 car accelerates slower than Fox made that connection. They dropped the word terrorist even faster when he turned out to be a right-wing, white, nut bag.
Posted by: Qween 12th June 2016, 12:44 PM
It's sad that it's come to this, but my immediate reaction was 'Oh, AGAIN'. Another easily preventable, senseless tragedy caused by arrogance and stupidity from the majority of the US people and politicians.
Posted by: HarryEzra 12th June 2016, 12:45 PM
This is so sad and terrifying two shootings in Orlando within a couple of days
Posted by: Qassändra 12th June 2016, 12:47 PM
It's not even about 'culture change'. The majority of Americans are against assault weapons being available for sale (let alone without background checks), as is the President, as likely is the next President. The main problem is that the NRA has a solid majority of Senators and Congressmen bought up or with viable rivals they're willing to fund to the hilt. Until that changes, nothing will.
Posted by: Scene 12th June 2016, 12:53 PM
Sadly, I think it'll probably take the shooting of a national treasure for any conversations on US gun law to progress. And even then, instances like John Lennon and Selena haven't really done anything.
Not a good week for Gay Pride at all.
Posted by: Doctor Blind 12th June 2016, 01:05 PM
Did I say that he was?
Posted by: Harve 12th June 2016, 01:08 PM
http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131
Needing to drop this classic every few weeks.
Posted by: Suedehead2 12th June 2016, 01:17 PM
Any comment from Jesse Hughes (Eagles Of Death Metal) yet?
Posted by: Scene 12th June 2016, 01:26 PM
Needing to drop this classic every few weeks.
Wow what idiots (the citizens being quoted, not the writer of the article).
Posted by: Silas 12th June 2016, 01:29 PM
It's satire. It's literally 100% made up.
Posted by: Scene 12th June 2016, 02:25 PM
'Islamic extremist' Omar Mateen, 29, from Florida, shoots dead at least 20 at Florida gay club after bursting in 'wearing a suicide vest' and taking hostages - injuring a further 42 - before he is killed
Suspected Islamic extremist opened fire inside Pulse gay club in Orlando in the early hours of this morning
Law enforcement sources have identified the shooter as US citizen Omar Mateen, from Port St. Lucie in Florida
He shot more than 40 people - killing about 20 - and took party-goers hostage before being killed by police
Shooter, believed to be in his 20s, was carrying a suspicious device, possibly a suicide vest, when he attacked
Police used an explosive device to distract the gunman and rescue around 30 people who had been taken hostage
Police engaged in gunfire with the man and an officer was shot in the head, but he was saved by his helmet
FBI says gunman may have 'leanings to radical Islamic terrorism' and it is being investigated as 'an act of terrorism'
Took place four miles from where The Voice singer Christina Grimmie, 22, was shot dead at The Plaza Live on Friday
Father said that his son got angry when he saw two men kissing in Miami and decided to kill as many as he could
Okay well either I'm stupid or it just goes to show how little I think of Americans' attitudes.
Posted by: Maurice 12th June 2016, 02:35 PM
50 deads so far....
Posted by: Silas 12th June 2016, 02:42 PM
An absolute f***ing tragedy. 50 lives lost to intolerance and opportunity that a lack of gun control affords. This is supposed to be a developed nation.
Posted by: Scene 12th June 2016, 02:58 PM
I think it is very convenient how the gunman's father claims it was down to homophobia - he's not exactly going to throw his faith under the bus.
Posted by: Joe. 12th June 2016, 03:01 PM
50 dead and another 53 hospitalised. It's heartbreaking.
Posted by: Hazza Chapman 12th June 2016, 03:19 PM
R.I.P to all the victims.
f***ing hell this year seems to be about death death death. What will it be tomorrow?
Posted by: spun 12th June 2016, 03:42 PM
Echoing what people have said, what a truly awful thing to happen. My heart goes out to everyone effected. These laws are a complete mess.
Posted by: Cody Collins 12th June 2016, 03:45 PM
It's stuff like this that makes me ashamed to be an American. Sickening.
Posted by: Jimmy Jam 12th June 2016, 03:46 PM
Just read about this now, absolutely heartbreaking, I read somewhere that this is America's biggest mass shooting in terms of fatalities? Even so, devestating, and of course my heart goes out to all the victims, and there loved ones
Posted by: dhwe 12th June 2016, 03:49 PM
titillated to know our congress will continue to be firmly glued to the teat of the gun lobby and nothing will happen. also i am tired
Posted by: Iz~ 12th June 2016, 03:49 PM
A huge mass shooting like this has to be a wake-up call for America. It really would be for any other developed nation.
Horrible news coming out of Orlando, this will definitely be an attack that'll rock the Western world.
Posted by: Scene 12th June 2016, 03:52 PM
This is now the biggest massacre in American history. Please let this be the start of the end for US gun laws.
Posted by: spun 12th June 2016, 03:54 PM
It sad that tragedies like this have to happen in order for something to be done about it.
Posted by: princess_lotti 12th June 2016, 03:55 PM
It's even sadder that this tragedy probably won't even get anything changed
Posted by: BillyH 12th June 2016, 03:58 PM
I think the events of November 22nd, 1963 prove that to be sadly not the case.
Posted by: Rooney 12th June 2016, 03:59 PM
Not sure, I think the movement is upcoming with what's happened over the last 4-5 years or so. Whether it's strong enough yet, probably not. Tirren was right earlier though, the people that actually want guns have so much money and power, it's hard for politicians to fight it without committing career suicide.
Posted by: Joe. 12th June 2016, 04:01 PM
Not really. This happens in America all the time and nothing is done.
It's so sad that this is the deadliest shooting in American history and it happened against a group of people, a lot of whom, in right wing Florida probably go to a gay club for escapism from the cruel prejudices of every day life.
I feel for Obama who will have to confront this publicly again. I feel like he is so exhausted and tired of having to try and fight against gun crime. But it's such a brick wall in America, at least in his time as president he's managed to get a proper dialogue going on about gun control.
Posted by: Silas 12th June 2016, 04:04 PM
There have been nearly 900 mass shootings since Sandy Hook....in late 2012. Less than 4 years ago. That's more than 5 shootings a week. Thousands of lives lost or changed needlessly because the National Rifle Association has bought off the republican party to ensure that their rights and ideology is promoted above the rights of countless americans to simply continue breathing.
http://www.vox.com/a/mass-shootings-sandy-hook
Horrifying statistics.
I'm betting by 5pm today, US time, the NRA will have said the phrase "If there was more responsible gun owners in that club then this could have been prevented" overlooking the fact that in every other civilised nation this simply DOES NOT HAPPEN because GUN CONTROL.
Posted by: danG 12th June 2016, 04:09 PM
I didn't expect there to be 50 deaths from this and because of homophobia and extremism too, how sad.
Posted by: Chez Wombat 12th June 2016, 04:24 PM
When you think of how much the world looks up to America and their status, seeing things like this happen there is just so much more awful. I can only hope that the fact this is now the deadliest in history and this coming right after yesterday's event means something will happen (and I'm not holding my breath either way).
Posted by: 🍑💦🍌 12th June 2016, 04:32 PM
I don't understand what the f*** is going on and how f***ed up you have to be to just start shootings like that.
What the hell. So much hatred and killing going on. I really cannot understand.
Posted by: Silas 12th June 2016, 04:34 PM
and because of homophobia This didn't have anything to do with extremism, it was a hate crime. Pure and simple.
Posted by: Harve 12th June 2016, 04:39 PM
Dude, there's a reason why the attack happened in a gay club.
Naturally folk will speculate why the perpetrator was homophobic, but this is still a homophobic incident first and foremost - 2016 and we see the worst attack on LGBT people in US history.
Posted by: dhwe 12th June 2016, 04:41 PM
http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm/http://www.cbsnews.com/news/number-of-households-with-guns-on-the-decline-study-shows/ seem to point that way i guess. like you said, i just don't see the gun-obsessed sect of our society relinquishing or losing their power anytime soon. if any sweeping changes were to happen it would have to rely on demographic shifts (bc gun ownership is tied to a v specific demo, namely the http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/15/the-demographics-and-politics-of-gun-owning-households/) but that could take another generation or two.
Posted by: Harve 12th June 2016, 04:42 PM
It's so sad that this is the deadliest shooting in American history and it happened against a group of people, a lot of whom, in right wing Florida probably go to a gay club for escapism from the cruel prejudices of every day life.
I feel for Obama who will have to confront this publicly again. I feel like he is so exhausted and tired of having to try and fight against gun crime. But it's such a brick wall in America, at least in his time as president he's managed to get a proper dialogue going on about gun control.
What's crazy is that public opinion broadly support some form of tighter gun control as well as Obama, and yet nothing has really happened yet. I don't get how the NRA have such a stranglehold on the country wtf.
Posted by: Suedehead2 12th June 2016, 05:13 PM
One word - money. If a congressman votes for tighter gun control, the NRA will fund an opponent's campaign at the next election. If something similar happened in Putin's Russia, we'd call it corrupt.
Posted by: Taylor Jago 12th June 2016, 05:30 PM
You'd think this sort of thing would push the country, or at the very least the state to finally ban guns once and for all. Obviously the only thing that matters to some people is money.
Unfortunately people like Obama have no power to actually change things, so these events will never stop.
Posted by: Umi 12th June 2016, 05:34 PM
This is frustrating. We should not be in a situation where I get annoyed every time I see a sentence along the lines of "America will surely wake up this time!" (events that should serve as wake-up calls typically do) but I do because it's just so... obviously wrong. Nothing is going to change, and blind optimism seems irritating in a situation with so little hope in the predictable future.
RIP to all the victims of this shooting, and every shooting.
Posted by: Iz~ 12th June 2016, 05:44 PM
The only reason I even thought that this time is because of the numbers. For all the horror and discourse over Virginia Tech and Columbine, this has more dead than those combined. You are right, until Congress is changed, nothing will change, but it's incidents with a similar casualty level in other developed countries (like Port Arthur in Australia) that ended up pushing change through.
Posted by: Tyler 12th June 2016, 06:08 PM
It is indeed a tragedy.
My thoughts and prayers go out to those involved. No words.
Posted by: Tyler 12th June 2016, 06:58 PM
This brought me to tears;
Posted by: Jade 12th June 2016, 06:59 PM
This is so shocking and heartbreaking. Reiterating once again why things NEED to change regarding gun laws as many have already said. My thoughts go out to the 50 dead from this.
^ Oh gosh Tyler at that as well. Absolutely chilling.
Posted by: HarryEzra 12th June 2016, 07:12 PM
That is chilling
Posted by: *Tim 12th June 2016, 07:14 PM
Omygod that is so chilling Tyler
IS just claimed the attack :/
The newsagencies now claim he also called 911 and said he was loyal to ISIS :/
Posted by: Umi 12th June 2016, 07:22 PM
As if more reason was needed for this to not signal a change. All of the blame will go to ISIS here, nobody will be talking about guns.
Posted by: Atonement 12th June 2016, 07:36 PM
I almost cried over this news. I have no words for it.
Well let's be honest, terrorists will get their weapons no matter the policy (see Paris, Brussels). I'm not in favor of the US gun laws, absolutely not, but changing the gun law will most likely stop disturbed people who do things on impulse, and won't have that much effect on planned attacks (assuming this attack was planned as IS claimed it).
And I know it's a different topic entirely but I wish we lived in a world where such a thing as religion didn't exist.
Posted by: Ethan 12th June 2016, 07:36 PM
truly sickening crimes, rip to those who've lost their lives to this appalling and cowardly act of savagery, my thoughts are with their loved ones.
Posted by: Jonjo 12th June 2016, 07:45 PM
I can't really comment anything new on this subject. What an awful crime and my prayers go out to all of those families that are mourning their loved ones
As The Black Eyed Peas once sang, WHERE IS THE LOVE?
Posted by: Chez Wombat 12th June 2016, 07:47 PM
Donald Trump has contributed his thoughts in a tweet, and it's as delightful and tasteful as you can expect from him:
Where's the mega manson?
Posted by: Umi 12th June 2016, 07:54 PM
Yes, I realise. It is arguable that the topic of tightening gun control is now irrelevant to this event if it's indeed true that ISIS were responsible. It's kind of automatically true that gun control is now a topic that will be swept under the rug on this occasion now, but it still feels kind of unfortunate that what at first glance looked like it should be a catalyst for change will be so easily dismissed.
Posted by: dhwe 12th June 2016, 07:54 PM
the cutest part about this is everyone from the right jumping on their soapbox to denounce "islamic terrorism" like they aren't out here trying to actively marginalize and terrorize queer and trans people on the daily. which is to say, not v cute at all, quite vomit-inducing
edit: yeah like that oompa loompa looking f***face chez quoted
Posted by: spun 12th June 2016, 08:02 PM
As The Black Eyed Peas once sang, WHERE IS THE LOVE?
I wouldn't mind seeing a campaign to get that song to #1 in the charts in memory of who we've lost due to the attacks tbh. Lovely song
Posted by: Qassändra 12th June 2016, 08:05 PM
I will not have 50 queer lives commemorated with the Black Eyed fucking Peas. DIVINE OR NOTHING
Posted by: Harve 12th June 2016, 08:08 PM
Obviously they haven't proved to be 100% foolproof, but weapon restrictions in most of Europe are a genuine barrier even to planned attacks, especially if they're by isolated 'lone wolves'. In the US that's not the case.
They're crude examples, but what could have happened during the London tube stabbing in December or the Lee Rigby murder if the perpetrators had guns instead of knives isn't worth thinking about.
Posted by: Liаm 12th June 2016, 08:10 PM
no we don't need aural suffering to go with the emotional pain of this tragedy.
Posted by: Silas 12th June 2016, 08:20 PM
If any song is to go to number 1 it should be something appropriately anthemic and powerful for the community.
Like this:
Posted by: Atonement 12th June 2016, 08:25 PM
I understand that. I'm not saying that the liberal US gun laws are not helping terrorists, I meant that terrorists will more likely have access to weapons regardless of laws. And I just realized I'm sort of defending their gun law which I don't intend to do as I think it's stupid.
Unfortunately, as Umi has stated, the whole issue will probably be under rug swept, especially if Trump wins the election.
Posted by: Virginia's Walls 12th June 2016, 08:29 PM
Right!
How many more until they get serious about guns!! Generations I reckon. Generations more of these qttacks.
Posted by: Suedehead2 12th June 2016, 08:42 PM
This would be a much better choice
Alternatively, maybe an updated version of this (he's updated it many times over the years)
Or maybe the newly ennobled Sir Rod would like to promote this (or even record a new version)
Posted by: 152chris 12th June 2016, 08:45 PM
Well let's be honest, terrorists will get their weapons no matter the policy (see Paris, Brussels). I'm not in favor of the US gun laws, absolutely not, but changing the gun law will most likely stop disturbed people who do things on impulse, and won't have that much effect on planned attacks (assuming this attack was planned as IS claimed it).
And I know it's a different topic entirely but I wish we lived in a world where such a thing as religion didn't exist.
this wasn't a planned attack. this was a guy who saw two guys kissing in the street a couple of months ago so walked into a gun store and killed 50 ppl with what he bought.
the IS / religion link is tenuous at best.
Posted by: Tyler 12th June 2016, 09:07 PM
edit: yeah like that oompa loompa looking f***face chez quoted
Right?
I noticed something kinda weird. Certain somebodies pump a lot of energy into legislating people's ability to use public restrooms because a man "might" get a wig and go into the women's room to attack girls and women. But when a person grabs an assault rifle and goes into a gay bar and murders 50 people, if you say "Maybe people shouldn't be able to own assault rifles," those same somebodies freak out and say you can't infringe on personal liberties like that. Anyone else find that incongruous?
Posted by: Scene 12th June 2016, 09:21 PM
the IS / religion link is tenuous at best.
It wasn't a planned attack yet the moment he saw two men kissing happened a couple of months before he decided to kill over 50 people (with many more injured)? It wasn't really impulsive. If it really is down to his homophobia, he probably wanted to go on this killing spree during Gay Pride specifically.
I don't think the IS/religion link is tenuous at all. He pledged allegiance to ISIS, his Facebook profile says he's a proud Muslim and...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-hosted-a-political-tv-show-and-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/?postshare=4461465758627386&tid=ss_tw
Posted by: Andr00w 12th June 2016, 09:34 PM
This is absolutely disgusting. Everytime a mass shooting happens in America there's an outcry for tighter gun laws but I really am starting to think it'll never happen.
RIP to all the victims of this atrocity.
Posted by: popchartfreak 12th June 2016, 09:35 PM
Homophobia hasn't gone away and it never will, there will always be Hate-filled warped people.
Trump claiming his view as justified is entirely predictable. Using his own logic, then all Christians should also be banned from the USA because the vast majority of mass-shooting perpetrators are White Christian males. This is a fact. You could ban all Muslims, put them all in camps (as they did with the Japanese 70 years ago - ask george Takei) and it wouldn't change anything. mass murders will still go on for centuries, every year, as regular as clockwork, because you can walk into a megastore in Orlando and everywhere else, stick killing machines in your trolley and walk out.
I was preparing to take my niece and nephew to orlando next year but I've changed my mind now. I'm not risking their lives in an insane society that worships Guns and is happy to see children murdered rather than do the sane thing. If Gay Americans had any sense they would join a movement to get rid of guns and put political pressure on their representatives.
Nothing will happen though. There will be another mass murder by Christmas to take up news coverage, and so on until the end of time.
Posted by: Tyler 12th June 2016, 09:47 PM
What a silly and badly timed statement. If you don't think that there is already many groups trying to do this, than you are mistaken.
Posted by: Silas 12th June 2016, 09:48 PM
By Christmas? Statistically there will be at least 10 more before the end of June alone.
Mass shootings occurred at a rate of more than 1 per day in 2015. Since 1988 Great Britain has seen 3 (using the definition of a mass shooting being 4+ injuries/deaths). 46 people died in Hungerford, Dunblane and Cumbria.
Posted by: dhwe 12th June 2016, 09:52 PM
truly...like, can we not be patronizing? it's a hellhole here but there are people trying to change things for the better, with or without your support, whether you notice them or not.
Posted by: River Lea 12th June 2016, 11:01 PM
R.I.P. to those that lost their lives in yet another sad tragedy.
Posted by: Joe. 13th June 2016, 08:07 AM
This shouldn't be downplayed as a hate crime. As someone who hated to see gay people kissing, there's a reason he chose that specific club. There's no two ways around it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ITdjAb3VcE This interview is appalling. How utterly patronising of the man and woman, Owen does well to stick it out as long as he did, but if I were there I'd have left earlier. The woman saying he was homopbic "months ago" and he might have attacked her for being a "gobby woman"... as if homophobia is something that passes in a week. He shot up a gay club.
Posted by: Suedehead2 13th June 2016, 12:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ITdjAb3VcE This interview is appalling. How utterly patronising of the man and woman, Owen does well to stick it out as long as he did, but if I were there I'd have left earlier. The woman saying he was homopbic "months ago" and he might have attacked her for being a "gobby woman"... as if homophobia is something that passes in a week. He shot up a gay club.
Owen Jones had clearly been upset about this all day. He had tweeted some angry comments about the fact that the BBC were showing an old woman's birthday party (two months after her birthday) on both BBC1 and the News channel, rather than covering Florida on the News channel. You can sense the frustration building up in him as the discussion went on. I just hope that the other two people will watch the discussion today and accept that their comments were misjudged. I don't think their comments were meant to be patronising or to downplay the scale of yesterday's events, but they didn't seem to grasp why Owen was so offended.
Posted by: popchartfreak 13th June 2016, 12:14 PM
I'm glad to hear there are, and sorry if it came over badly, that wasn't my intent. I'm just so sick of the Right-wing stymying every attempt to change things. If the whole unifed gay population came together (the Pink Dollar is very powerful) and made it clear they won't stand for it anymore then something good would come out of it. I'm afraid though that there are just as many gun-toting supporters throughout US life and it needs a unified mass movement not small groups of activists, all organised to work together for Peace and Justice. That means marches, media attention, keeping the pressure on in the same way the Civil Rights movement did in the 60's.
Posted by: popchartfreak 13th June 2016, 05:02 PM
It wasn't meant to be patronizing, sorry if it came over that way. My bitter words come from 50 years of abject disappointment with American Guns. When I was a child we hero worshipped the USA, we loved everything American, we had been saved from the Nazis with massive USA help and the UK was on it's knees economically. USA TV shows were all over TV and we saw an idealised Pleasantville to aspire to. We had superheroes, pop music, hippie culture, love and peace and Civil Rights.
At the same time we had Vietnam, black people murdered for speaking up, Martin Luther King was murdered, and Robert Kennedy shortly after, these impacted on me but I kept my love for the USA, and the idealism. I even did a degree in American Literature, history and geography, and had my first ever holiday as a student on the West Coast. I loved it. I still worshipped America, and especially small-town America, people were friendly and inviting, far more than the reserved British would be to complete strangers. By the 90's I holidayed every year, more or less, in the States, still loving it but troubled more and more by the never-ending shootings and the media acceptance, the culture acceptance, and having to endure the loss of my lifelong hero, John Lennon, shot dead by a nutter.
So, I continued on with a love-hate relationship for the States, into the new century when things just got worse and worse. Bush and the Bankers, world crisis, one mass shooting after another, even the brutal murder of small children and a President, a good decent man, exasperated by the powerful Gun control lobby, couldn't do a thing to change it. And so I got the stage where, despite all the great efforts of sane citizens in the States, the insane are in control and with Trump on the horizon...who knows. It's very hard to be optimistic.
Young Americans need to gather, say no more, and then boycott any organisation which supports the gun lobby. Hitting them in the wallet will make them listen, and making life as difficult as possible for politicians who support guns will make them think twice if their financial support suddenly evaporates. The problem is anyone who sticks their head above the parapet knows they are at risk from the Angry, so it needs to be a mass movement, safety in numbers. I wish dearly things could change...
Posted by: Tyler 13th June 2016, 06:54 PM
I know that your statement did not come from a condescending nature, I guess as a gay American, we are all a little on edge.
Everything you are saying is 100% dead on. But, I fear nothing will ever change. The fact a man that was under watch by the FBI and had a background of violence and mental disorders, could purchase an assault rifle, is not only mind boggling as it is infuriating.
We have had almost 140 shootings this year and we are only in early June. Not only are we dealing with that, but, now we are dealing with fundamental Christians yelling "attack!" On Muslims. Which is just very funny when all of America's gay community is calling for an outreach of love and coming together. This country is filled to the brim with unintelligent, blood thirsty ass holes, that are quickly killing off anybody that does not fit with their ideology. Want to start a mass shooting? Just stop by the gun department in Wal Mart after you buy your weekly groceries.
Posted by: Suedehead2 13th June 2016, 07:02 PM
I found it staggering to read that people who are deemed sufficiently dangerous to merit a flight ban are nevertheless able to buy guns. For some inexplicable reason, the NRA don't seem to think there is anything wrong with that.
Posted by: Tyler 13th June 2016, 07:16 PM
The NRA is a parasite to the American society.
The sad thing is, the number of pro gun Americans out weighs those that are anti. Which makes it almost an impossible issue to tackle through politics. For instance, if Hillary Clinton were to come out today and say "WE NEED TO BAN GUNS", that would only further Trump's chances of actually winning. Sad times.
Posted by: JSG 13th June 2016, 07:35 PM
It is absolutely astonishing that this sort of thing happens quite a lot in a civilised country and then again astonishing that bringing in a law to control the sale of guns is almost an impossible thing to do as well. I feel absolutely terrible for the people affected by this but they really do need to do something.
Posted by: Silas 13th June 2016, 10:23 PM
The most horrifying thing about the Gun Control debate is that even completely common sense reasonable ideas are dismissed as trespassing on their rights.
I'm sorry but there is never a circumstance under which a private citizen buying a weapon of WAR is justified. These assault riffles are designed to brutally murder countless people in a short period of time. No private individual should ever have access to firearms like this. Ever.
If you think that checking that someone is on the terror watch list, or is not in a fit mental state or has an extensive criminal past is not an ok level of checks to be carried out on people owning firearms then you are the problem. You should probably go right ahead and take a long walk off a short cliff. At the very least you should be sectioned.
How the NRA can sleep at night i'll never understand. They are to blame for hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost directly as a result of their corrupt lobbying. The idea that the united states is a democracy is almost as laughable as the NRA continually suggesting gun control in the UK and Australia doesn't work.
We've had 8 mass shootings since the 1840's, you've had 8 since last f***ing Monday. Take a thousand seats, delete your account and stop being such a shit stain on the fabric of humanity.
Posted by: Riser 14th June 2016, 03:38 AM
It bothers me that doing anything at all about guns is not even open for discussion. What Silas just said is similar to what I've seen all over Facebook, and when anyone brings up the issue they'll get accused of using a tragedy to push an agenda and/or that anti-guns is anti-freedom, end of debate. Well, Facebook arguments are never worth it anyway, but I've overheard it at work too, and what seems like common sense to those of us in this thread is nearly impossible to explain to a huge portion of Americans. The most common argument is "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and in this case, "it's a terrorism problem not a gun problem", "if he didn't have a gun he would've used a bomb", etc etc etc. A lot of the other arguments focus on "what if this" and "what if that", we can't ban guns because all of these things MIGHT happen...ignoring the reality of what actually IS happening now and will continue if nothing is done about it. I used to think people cared more about their second amendment rights than the safety of others, but nope, people genuinely believe America's a safer country with guns than without. People are still convinced that Obama wants to take away everyone's guns, even though ownership rates have increased during his presidency and he's done literally nothing to stop it for 7+ years. To be fair, I'm terrified of what would happen if we ever do get gun legislation, it'd quite likely lead to chaos if people think they have to give up their guns. But I have family and friends who are openly LGBT and now fearing for their lives because of this tragedy, which in my mind is far far worse.
Posted by: Noahspike 14th June 2016, 06:18 AM
Have to say, it's been somewhat 'relieving' (for want of a better word) in the aftermath of this and other mass shootings to attribute most of the blame for American gun culture to the NRA's current level of seemingly insurmountable power, with the sense that general attitudes are slowly changing and that lives of innocent people are starting to be defended and valued by society above any rights or perceived safety associated with guns (even if that means most of the population is now in favour of stricter background checks only). That way change and legislation seemed at least possible, even if it was to take years to come about. Hearing the anecdotal accounts of Facebook feeds etc. over the last couple of days, both the likes of Jordan's above and from Americans I know, is truly shocking and completely disheartening though. It's scary how educated and otherwise intelligent people can so easily excuse the availability of guns as irrelevant to atrocities like this, and worse still; that pro-gun rhetoric can be legitimately strengthened in response. "If people had guns to defend themselves, if elementary schools had armed security guards" etc...
And that's without mentioning the blatant homophobia and racism that's accompanying this all too often.
Extremely sad times. RIP to all the victims.
Posted by: Cody Collins 14th June 2016, 07:01 AM
The sad thing is, the number of pro gun Americans out weighs those that are anti. Which makes it almost an impossible issue to tackle through politics. For instance, if Hillary Clinton were to come out today and say "WE NEED TO BAN GUNS", that would only further Trump's chances of actually winning. Sad times.
And whoop there it is.
(We had a 10-year assault weapons ban?)
Posted by: Tyler 14th June 2016, 03:55 PM
And whoop there it is.
(We had a 10-year assault weapons ban?)
The most they will be able to get banned is assault rifles.
Yep from 1994 - 2004. Bill Clinton being responsible for it. I blame Bush for it not being extended.
Posted by: HarryEzra 14th June 2016, 04:10 PM
Seeing all the names of the people who have died during this tragic even has made this more real for me, I just still cant get my head around it RIP to all 49 people who died.
Posted by: Brett-Butler 15th June 2016, 06:46 PM
Yep from 1994 - 2004. Bill Clinton being responsible for it. I blame Bush for it not being extended.
There's two things to note about the 10-year "ban" though -
1. It didn't actually ban semi-automatic assault weapons, it just capped how many features it had; and
2. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/guns-like-the-ar-15-were-never-fully-banned/
Posted by: liamk97 15th June 2016, 09:01 PM
After watching the video, tbh I can't grasp it either. He seems to throw a tantrum just because they disagreed with him and is then offended when the woman refers to the man who shot all those people as a lunatic. I'm not trying to say who was right and who was wrong in regards to comments made in the discussion, but it just came across as a very childish way of dealing with a debate.
Posted by: HarryEzra 16th June 2016, 06:34 PM
Time have released a powerful and amazing tribute to the 49 victims of the Orlando shooting in their magazine front cover:
Posted by: Scene 17th June 2016, 03:07 PM
Has everyone seen this powerful recollection of the night, from one of the survivors?
Posted by: HarryEzra 17th June 2016, 05:05 PM
Wow that is powerful, can't imagine going through that
Posted by: Scene 17th June 2016, 06:39 PM
I know. It's so surreal to think that one minute you could be having a great carefree night and then the next people around you have just been shot dead and your life is so uncertain.
Posted by: KWEEN_DEE 18th June 2016, 07:55 PM
This whole situation has scarred me. My heart goes out to all those involved and any friends and family. The media and celebrity response has been incredible though.
Posted by: Mack 18th June 2016, 10:42 PM
I heard Christina Aguilera is donating her sales from her new single to the people who have affected by this awful tragedy.
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