  |
 The best bubblegum-dance producers ever?, Stock Aitken and Waterman |
| Track this thread - Email this thread - Print this thread - Download this thread - Subscribe to this forum |
 24th March 2008, 02:33 PM
Post
#1
|
|
 Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl it's Tigerboy!
Joined: 14 March 2006
Posts: 16,051 User: 210 
   |
According to page 140 of the radio times this week, Richard Allinson and Steve Levine will be celebrating the "1980s/90s songwriting/producing hits machine of Mike Stock, Matt Aiken and Pete Waterman" acknologing them for their "consumate craft and studio advances"
"There energised bubblegum-dance sound yeielded over 200 top 40 hits, from Divine, Hazell Dean and Dead or Alive to Rick Astley, Donna Summer and Kylie Minogue" so were S/A/W the kings of bubblegum-dance??? were they the best bubblegum-dance producers ever??? |
 |
 
|
|
24th March 2008, 08:53 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 29 April 2006
Posts: 3,392 User: 519
 |
SAW is usually a very dirty word on this forum, but in many ways, they are quintessential 80s retro. For every classic gem they produced ('Respectable'), a dozen or so turkeys were made (anything by Big Fun...).
I think it's more than fair to say they were the best bubblegum pop producers, certainly the most prolific and successful anyway. You could really push it and continue the 'my favorute... SAW produced tracks' album thread haha! This post has been edited by ScottyEm: 24th March 2008, 08:54 PM |
|
|
|
|
24th March 2008, 10:21 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
I've got an iPod classic and I'm gonna use it!
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 39,988 User: 72
    |
I listened to the Radio 2 documentary on SAW this evening.
What were Bananarama thinking rejecting the tune that became I Should Be So Lucky because it was not catchy enough for them (the fools). Likewise hearing the original version of Nothing Can Divide Us showed that: 1. Rick Astley was a million times better singer than Jason Donovan. 2. The song sucked even with him singing it. |
|
|
|
|
25th March 2008, 09:27 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
im all clares!
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 16,421 User: 5
 |
QUOTE(ScottyEm @ Mar 24 2008, 08:54 PM)  SAW is usually a very dirty word on this forum, but in many ways, they are quintessential 80s retro. For every classic gem they produced ('Respectable'), a dozen or so turkeys were made (anything by Big Fun...). I think it's more than fair to say they were the best bubblegum pop producers, certainly the most prolific and successful anyway. You could really push it and continue the 'my favorute... SAW produced tracks' album thread haha! think you are correct here  SAW is a dirty word here as their material is of little musical credibility (without musicianship our pop music would never have lead the world, without its creativity youth culture would not exist) , what watertwat did was mass produce rubbish and fed it to a new post punk generation of kids who werent into the more (adult) indie, acid house or hip hop scenes that were happening in the late 80's. 20 years ago we blamed 'girls and gays' for their success!  (not very pc i know but thats how it was)HOWEVER i dont believe that not matter how bad any genre of musical style is, that its ALL bad. so i do agree that for every 'classic ' (although id suggest 'decent pop song') they produced there were (two) dozen turkeys. im not so sure though that they are regarded as 'quintessential 80's retro' though ... i guess it depends upon your age! those of us who lived through the punk era (punk - new wave- ska- new romantic) largely ignored this 'new' sound as it was uninspiringly childish, so i for one wouldnt regard SAW music as MY idea of 80's retro. i think kids of the 90's who have been brought up on a diet on manufactured rubbish though may well cite the SAW years with fondness.. |
|
|
|
|
25th March 2008, 12:56 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 15 March 2006
Posts: 1,630 User: 232
 |
True Bubblegum music only lasted for about a few years between 68-71 and includes stuff like 1910 fruitgum co. Ohio Express etc. Everything else is really just teeny pop music etc.
|
|
|
|
|
25th March 2008, 04:50 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
im all clares!
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 16,421 User: 5
|
QUOTE(fiesta @ Mar 25 2008, 12:57 PM) True Bubblegum music only lasted for about a few years between 68-71 and includes stuff like 1910 fruitgum co. Ohio Express etc. Everything else is really just teeny pop music etc. correct, as mentioned several times before it was a product of steve kastenetz and omri katz, new york producers. |
|
|
|
|
25th March 2008, 06:49 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 14 March 2006
Posts: 7,830 User: 213
   |
QUOTE(thisispop @ Mar 24 2008, 10:22 PM) What were Bananarama thinking rejecting the tune that became I Should Be So Lucky because it was not catchy enough for them (the fools). they were right rejecting it - it was a rubbish song then, it's a rubbish song now. Bananarama were never going to sit nicely in the SAW camp because they were too outspoken, had more than a braincell among them and, at heart, were old punks who were having a laugh with the pop game. Kylie, at the time, could've released a single of her bringing up phlegm in tune to Y Viva Espana and it'd have gone to number one for weeks..... it wasn't that 'Lucky' was/is a great tune or not.... it was her debut single and people's memories are clouded by this fact and the fact that it propelled Charleen into pop megastardom.... 'I Should Be So Lucky' is a c**p song - and even if Bananarama had recorded and released it - it wouldn't have gotten to number one because, at the time, they were having a run of great singles that just weren't doing the business as they should (Nathan Jones, I Can't Help It, Love Truth and Honesty - one of SAW's best ever - and I Heard a Rumour - surely SAW's best ever pop single). |
|
|
|
|
25th March 2008, 07:35 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
im all clares!
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 16,421 User: 5
|
QUOTE(russt68 @ Mar 25 2008, 06:50 PM) they were right rejecting it - it was a rubbish song then, it's a rubbish song now. Bananarama were never going to sit nicely in the SAW camp because they were too outspoken, had more than a brasincell among them and, at heart, were old punks who were having a laugh with the pop game. Kylie, at the time, could've released a single of her bringing up phlegm in tune to Y Viva Espana and it'd have gone to number one for weeks..... it wasn't that 'Lucky' was/is a great tune or not.... it was her debut single and people's memories are clouded by this fact and the fact that it propelled Charleen into pop megastardom.... 'I Should Be So Lucky' is a c**p song - and even if Bananarama had recorded and released it - it wouldn't have gotten to number one because, at the time, they were having a run of great singles that just weren't doing the business as they should (Nathan Jones, I Can't Help It, Love Truth and Honesty - one of SAW's best ever - and I Heard a Rumour - surely SAW's best ever pop single). actually i dont agree 'i should be so lucky' WAS a good pop song... but i agree it wasnt for bananarama, and i agree that they were just old punks at heart having a laugh with the pop scene. 'trick of the night' was my fav bananarama song, but apart from that they do nowt for me really (though ive got 'shy boy'). i still wont forgive them for destroying 'venus'... one of the worst destruction jobs in music history. |
|
|
|
|
26th March 2008, 04:00 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Always wear a clean pair of knickers, cos you never know when th
Joined: 12 March 2006
Posts: 18,586 User: 190
  |
QUOTE(MUSHYMANROB @ Mar 25 2008, 07:36 PM) actually i dont agree 'i should be so lucky' WAS a good pop song... I reckon I'd have to go with Russ on this one mate.. "I Should Be So Lucky" was a c**p song, even by SAW's own pretty low standards (for every "You Spin Me Round.." there was about two dozen of these piles o' mindless sh!te).... The song (and by extension Kylie herself..) only rocketed to fame because "Neighbours" was a huge deal in the mid-to-late 80s, the whole "Scott and Charleen" thing was, depressingly, huge, the media was saturated with "Neighbours" bollocks... Even that hopeless, irredeemably talentless tw@t Craig McLoughlin (who played Henry..) managed to get a hit out of his association with the soap.... |
|
|
|
|
26th March 2008, 06:50 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 14 March 2006
Posts: 7,830 User: 213
|
there were quite a few Neighbours bores foisting their non-existant 'singing' talents on us around this time, remember.... Stefan Dennis, anyone?
 Kylie got lucky..... excuse the pun... and she was relentless.... she demanded we listen and released what seemed like an album every other month.... then she eventually ended up working with some amazing people who ensured her star status. |
|
|
|
|
1st April 2008, 02:05 PM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl it's Tigerboy!
Joined: 14 March 2006
Posts: 16,051 User: 210
|
QUOTE(ScottyEm @ Mar 24 2008, 09:54 PM) SAW is usually a very dirty word on this forum, but in many ways, they are quintessential 80s retro. and for a retro thread - see how it was moved from the retro area to pop..even tho its is retro...i wonder if retro should be renamed 'warning pretentious rock types in here 'QUOTE(thisispop @ Mar 24 2008, 11:22 PM) Likewise hearing the original version of Nothing Can Divide Us showed that: 1. Rick Astley was a million times better singer than Jason Donovan. ..tho its pretty obv that he really really wants to be Michael MacDonald  if you think S/A/W is bad here is one of Rick's Own - a record so bad that not even a Safri Duo bongo-licous remix could save it  |
|
|
|
|
1st April 2008, 02:13 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 17 June 2006
Posts: 6,965 User: 781
  |
stock aitken & water ......were they like the max martin & denniz pop of the 80's??
and in the 00's we have .......erhm timbaland???? |
|
|
|
|
1st April 2008, 02:14 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl it's Tigerboy!
Joined: 14 March 2006
Posts: 16,051 User: 210
|
QUOTE(MUSHYMANROB @ Mar 25 2008, 10:28 AM) think you are correct here SAW is a dirty word here as their material is of little musical credibility (without musicianship our pop music would never have lead the world, without its creativity youth culture would not exist) , what watertwat did was mass produce rubbish and fed it to a new post punk generation of kids who werent into the more (adult) indie, acid house or hip hop scenes that were happening in the late 80's. 20 years ago we blamed 'girls and gays' for their success! (not very pc i know but thats how it was)HOWEVER i dont believe that not matter how bad any genre of musical style is, that its ALL bad. so i do agree that for every 'classic ' (although id suggest 'decent pop song') they produced there were (two) dozen turkeys. im not so sure though that they are regarded as 'quintessential 80's retro' though ... i guess it depends upon your age! those of us who lived through the punk era (punk - new wave- ska- new romantic) largely ignored this 'new' sound as it was uninspiringly childish, so i for one wouldnt regard SAW music as MY idea of 80's retro. i think kids of the 90's who have been brought up on a diet on manufactured rubbish though may well cite the SAW years with fondness.. and i bet A] you really love Stiff Records and a fan of the Specials  B] you havent read mojo this month (its page 88 - 89 that Pete Waterman turns up - all you pretentious rock types) QUOTE(Dino-2Pacalypse @ Apr 1 2008, 03:14 PM) stock aitken & water ......were they like the max martin & denniz pop of the 80's?? and in the 00's we have .......erhm timbaland???? Yeah spot on!!! love you for getting a reference tp Timberline's never ending production line - which could be a good thing or bad thing...and also Maratone/Cherion in as well |
|
|
|
|
1st April 2008, 04:43 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Always wear a clean pair of knickers, cos you never know when th
Joined: 12 March 2006
Posts: 18,586 User: 190
|
QUOTE(russt68 @ Mar 26 2008, 06:51 PM) there were quite a few Neighbours bores foisting their non-existant 'singing' talents on us around this time, remember.... Stefan Dennis, anyone? Kylie got lucky..... excuse the pun... and she was relentless.... she demanded we listen and released what seemed like an album every other month.... then she eventually ended up working with some amazing people who ensured her star status. GAWD mate, I'd rather forget Stefan Dennis..... And I reckon you're spot on about Kylie.. She got so lucky (lucky, lucky, lucky even.... ).. She is, at best, a pretty below-average Pop star whose iconic status is pretty ill-deserved.... Especially now that she's just rather blatantly copying (and rather watering down...) Goldfrapp.... Three years too late..... |
|
|
|
|
1st April 2008, 05:27 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 29 April 2006
Posts: 3,392 User: 519
|
QUOTE(GRIMLY FIENDISH @ Apr 1 2008, 05:44 PM) GAWD mate, I'd rather forget Stefan Dennis..... And I reckon you're spot on about Kylie.. She got so lucky (lucky, lucky, lucky even.... ).. She is, at best, a pretty below-average Pop star whose iconic status is pretty ill-deserved.... Especially now that she's just rather blatantly copying (and rather watering down...) Goldfrapp.... Three years too late..... Pretty bleak view to be fair. Fundamentally, the main reason Kylie has spun over 20 years of material was all down to her hunger for some kind of artistic control. Kylie is very possibly one of the most luckiest individuals in the world but I think it's unfair to simply say she is little more than a vessel that is regularly filled with ideas. I do think Kylie is genuinely passionate about music, fashion and style and her early reluctance to simply be Waterman's cash-cow showed she was no Sonia (who I also have a little sneaky fondness for, but let's not get into that...). Have you ever listened to the 'Impossible Princess' album? If I were I would give it a listen (without prejudice). |
|
|
|
|
1st April 2008, 05:44 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 14 March 2006
Posts: 7,830 User: 213
|
I think Kylie's greatest asset is her gay stylist, who has seemed to guide her career for the past decade or so.
|
|
|
|
|
1st April 2008, 06:56 PM
Post
#17
|
|
|
im all clares!
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 16,421 User: 5
|
QUOTE(russt68 @ Apr 1 2008, 06:45 PM) I think Kylie's greatest asset is her gay stylist, who has seemed to guide her career for the past decade or so. i agree and i think grimly is spot on too... in interviews shes come across as decidedly dumb.. hardly the makings of a 'pop deva' in control of her musical direction. |
|
|
|
|
1st April 2008, 06:57 PM
Post
#18
|
|
|
im all clares!
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 16,421 User: 5
|
QUOTE(tigerboy @ Apr 1 2008, 03:15 PM) and i bet A] you really love Stiff Records and a fan of the Specials B] you havent read mojo this month (its page 88 - 89 that Pete Waterman turns up - all you pretentious rock types) a = yes b = no so what? |
|
|
|
|
2nd April 2008, 08:32 PM
Post
#19
|
|
|
BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 29 April 2006
Posts: 3,392 User: 519
|
QUOTE(MUSHYMANROB @ Apr 1 2008, 07:57 PM) i agree and i think grimly is spot on too... in interviews shes come across as decidedly dumb.. hardly the makings of a 'pop deva' in control of her musical direction. Dumb? Have you seen any interviews post 1988? She's a bona-fide professional! |
|
|
|
|
2nd April 2008, 10:00 PM
Post
#20
|
|
|
I've got an iPod classic and I'm gonna use it!
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 39,988 User: 72
|
QUOTE(ScottyEm @ Apr 1 2008, 06:28 PM) Pretty bleak view to be fair. Fundamentally, the main reason Kylie has spun over 20 years of material was all down to her hunger for some kind of artistic control. Kylie is very possibly one of the most luckiest individuals in the world but I think it's unfair to simply say she is little more than a vessel that is regularly filled with ideas. I do think Kylie is genuinely passionate about music, fashion and style and her early reluctance to simply be Waterman's cash-cow showed she was no Sonia (who I also have a little sneaky fondness for, but let's not get into that...). Have you ever listened to the 'Impossible Princess' album? If I were I would give it a listen (without prejudice). Spot on. I'm not Kylie's biggest fan, but anybody dismissing her ability is ignoring the rather obvious fact that she has survived 20 years in the industry because of her adaptability, the fact that she has changed her sound and her image to stay contemporary to a greater or lesser degree of success. (Whatever happened to Wendy James (Transvision Vamp), Debbie Gibson, Tanita Tikarum, Yazz, Sonia, Vanessa Paradis, etc from when she started!) Anyone who has 40 Top20 hits is clearly not rubbish. Plus she puts on fantastic live shows that are events. I think the fact that Simon Cowell dropped her when Deconstruction was taken over by BMG (he said that she was too old), yet she came back in the 21st Century better and more popular than ever speaks volumes about her willpower and ability of finding the right material and making complimentary videos to sell her self. As for her interviews you haters clearly have not hung around or taken the time out to read them as she is like a female David Bowie for the way she makes entertaining comments, she keeps up to date with Fashion, Food, Culture, Music & TV (but not in an embarrassing Paul McCartney token bluffing it sort of way), yet is equally enigmatic by revealing little about herself. ............... Mind you her last album X is shockingly poor and was my Worst album of 2007. Still the last word to legendary music critic Charles Shaar Murray: "Kylie is a survivor because she manages to mask her thin, often nondescript voice with musical diversity and brittle charisma with a quiet determination and great and genuinely great pop songs by any standard complimented with frequently great videos" |
|
|
|
|
| Time is now: 26th April 2024, 10:51 AM |
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 BuzzJack.com
About | Contact | Advertise | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service
