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 Local by-election results |
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 10th December 2018, 10:08 PM
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#41
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 Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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You don’t fix that by removing constituencies though. You do multimember wards or you have regional lists like you do for the devolved Parliaments that counteract the constituency vote to make the overall result proportional
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10th December 2018, 10:17 PM
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#42
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,674 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Dec 10 2018, 10:04 PM)  Having a local representative is a key tenant of an effective parliamentary democracy Not a problem for the entire rest of Europe. And let’s be real, ignoring the SNP getting 50.3% in Scotland in 2015 GE, when was the last time anyone got close to 50% nationally? Weren’t not a 2 party system and we will never return to being one. The days of a 50% vote and a win are over The closest any party has got to 50% of the vote in a UK general election post-1945 was by Labour in 1951. Despite winning fewer votes than Labour, the Tories won a majority in that election. |
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10th December 2018, 10:30 PM
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#43
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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Once again, Westminister could look to the system used in the NI Assembly (and also in the Dail), where the electorate is split into regions, in which 5 people are elected into the Assembly using the single-transferable vote method of PR. It means that you're likely to have at least 1 representative that you can feel comfortable having as your conduit for the area, and it means you can strike the right balance between voting for a party and voting for the individual - there have been a few cases where a particularly unpopular member of a party has lost their seat whilst the other members of the same party still get seats in the same constituency.
I'd love to see it rolled out across the UK in Westminster, with 3 representatives in 200 constituencies of approximately the same size. It would mean, for example, Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott & Emily Thornberry would be competing in the same constituency, meaning there would be a strong chance of at least one of them losing a seat. Just imagine the scores of Portillo moments that would happen in the first election after it being introduced. |
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10th December 2018, 10:31 PM
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#44
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 Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,098 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Dec 10 2018, 10:30 PM) Once again, Westminister could look to the system used in the NI Assembly (and also in the Dail), where the electorate is split into regions, in which 5 people are elected into the Assembly using the single-transferable vote method of PR. It means that you're likely to have at least 1 representative that you can feel comfortable having as your conduit for the area, and it means you can strike the right balance between voting for a party and voting for the individual - there have been a few cases where a particularly unpopular member of a party has lost their seat whilst the other members of the same party still get seats in the same constituency. I'd love to see it rolled out across the UK in Westminster, with 3 representatives in 200 constituencies of approximately the same size. It would mean, for example, Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott & Emily Thornberry would be competing in the same constituency, meaning there would be a strong chance of at least one of them losing a seat. Just imagine the scores of Portillo moments that would happen in the first election after it being introduced. How big would parliament be? And would that stop major discrepancies between Tory vote numbers and their total of seats? |
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10th December 2018, 10:36 PM
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#45
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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QUOTE(Lapland Labia @ Dec 10 2018, 11:31 PM) How big would parliament be? And would that stop major discrepancies between Tory vote numbers and their total of seats? Parliament would still be 600 people (as it is due to be in the next parliament), each constituency would be bigger to allow for more representatives per constituency whilst still having the same number of representatives. And % of seats would be more likely to be in line with % of 1st preference votes, but there could still be scope for a difference in this depending on how the 2nd preference votes fall. |
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10th December 2018, 10:37 PM
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#46
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,098 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Dec 10 2018, 10:36 PM) Parliament would still be 600 people (as it is due to be in the next parliament), each constituency would be bigger to allow for more representatives per constituency whilst still having the same number of representatives. And % of seats would be more likely to be in line with % of 1st preference votes, but there could still be scope for a difference in this depending on how the 2nd preference votes fall. That actually sounds like a decent system! |
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10th December 2018, 11:04 PM
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#47
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,674 User: 3,272
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Three people per constituency is not enough. It would still be very difficult for parties such as the Greens to win anything. There should be around five members per constituency. For as long as most power is concentrated in Westminster, the total number of MPs should remain at its current level (give or take a few), but that is a separate issue.
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10th December 2018, 11:13 PM
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#48
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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I'd used three as an example because those three household name MPs have constituencies right beside each other to illustrate how it would affect parliament if it came into force (plus it is divisible into 600, although then again so it 4, 5 & 6 now that I think about it). The NI Assembly had 6 representatives per constituency up until the last election, when it became 5, and this was enough to allow smaller parties like the Greens and People Before Profit to get a seat.
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11th December 2018, 06:30 AM
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#49
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Dec 10 2018, 10:04 PM) Not a problem for the entire rest of Europe. And let’s be real, ignoring the SNP getting 50.3% in Scotland in 2015 GE, when was the last time anyone got close to 50% nationally? Weren’t not a 2 party system and we will never return to being one. The days of a 50% vote and a win are over I'm actually agreeing with you here - I was just pointing out the consequences to Michael, who apparently has not thought this through. 
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11th December 2018, 06:37 AM
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#50
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Lapland Labia @ Dec 9 2018, 11:52 PM) Get rid of boundaries and FPTP by constituency. Have a popular vote cross the country and assign the number of seats based on that. No mote Tory 'wins' through gerrymandering! YOu say you want to avoid gerrymandering, but you suggest a system specifically designed to stop one specific party winning - can you not see the inconsistency there? QUOTE(Lapland Labia @ Dec 10 2018, 10:06 PM) Well no. Places with a high Labour vote would get Labour MPs. One with similar votes would get one of each etc. Easy fix and stops results like in 2010 where Labour got an almost identical vote spli5 to the Tories but 100 fewer seats. That is not democracy. How exactly, when you've suggested above that the country should be considered one entity for voting purposes?  QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 10 2018, 11:04 PM) Three people per constituency is not enough. It would still be very difficult for parties such as the Greens to win anything. There should be around five members per constituency. For as long as most power is concentrated in Westminster, the total number of MPs should remain at its current level (give or take a few), but that is a separate issue. I favour county-sized units - generally 5-7 MP's, elected by STV. This post has been edited by vidsanta: 11th December 2018, 06:40 AM |
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8th March 2019, 09:05 AM
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#51
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,674 User: 3,272
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Just one local byelection yesterday, in Aylesbury Vale, but an interesting one nonetheless.
Green - 50.8% (+36.5) Con - 32.8% (-3.3) LibD - 14.0% (+3.6) Lab - 2.5% (+2.5) Ind 0 (-25.4) UKIP 0 (-13.9) On the face of it, that looks like a spectacular result for the Greens and a poor one for the Tories (losing votes when there were so many Independent and UKIP votes up for grabs). Dig a little deeper and it's far worse for the Tories, even after allowing for the fact that previous results suggested that the Green candidate was a lot more popular than his party. The Independent candidate who polled well in 2015 stood for the Tories this time. Therefore, he seems to have (in net terms) lost all of those votes and then some more. |
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8th March 2019, 01:04 PM
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#52
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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The comments on the result seems to suggest the Greens’ surge is due to their position on HS2, if completed it would go straight through the consistency. Another commenter mentioned that there were a surpriising number of switches from UKIP to the Greens in the doorstep, which is surprising.
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8th March 2019, 01:49 PM
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#53
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,674 User: 3,272
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That's interesting. I had come to the conclusion that a lot of former UKIP supporters simply didn't bother to vote at all.
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8th March 2019, 02:59 PM
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#54
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Mar 8 2019, 01:04 PM) The comments on the result seems to suggest the Greens’ surge is due to their position on HS2, if completed it would go straight through the consistency. Another commenter mentioned that there were a surpriising number of switches from UKIP to the Greens in the doorstep, which is surprising. I assume you mean 'constituency'. QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Mar 8 2019, 01:49 PM) That's interesting. I had come to the conclusion that a lot of former UKIP supporters simply didn't bother to vote at all. It could be an 'anyone but the big two' protest vote? |
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8th March 2019, 03:27 PM
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#55
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,674 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Mar 8 2019, 02:59 PM) I assume you mean 'constituency'. It could be an 'anyone but the big two' protest vote? Are you considering a party that got 2.5% of the vote to be one of the "big two"? |
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8th March 2019, 06:14 PM
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#56
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Mar 8 2019, 03:59 PM) I assume you mean 'constituency'. You assume correctly. Autocorrect's a batch. |
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9th March 2019, 06:19 AM
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#57
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Mar 8 2019, 03:27 PM) Are you considering a party that got 2.5% of the vote to be one of the "big two"? Nationally, of course.  I'm used to seeing Labour vote shares like that in *Cheltenham*... 
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14th July 2019, 09:05 AM
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#58
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,674 User: 3,272
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One interesting result this week from Bridlington in a constituency that had a 64% Leave vote. The Lib Dems, who hadn't stood in the ward for the last twelve years, won the seat comfortably. The Tory vote collapsed from over 70% to just 27% while Labour's vote fell from 30% (in a two-way fight) to under 5%, leaving them behind UKIP.
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14th July 2019, 12:01 PM
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#59
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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Wasn't sure what thread to put this in, but as it relates to a local councillor, I thought I'd leave it here.
A Liberal Democrat councillor in Rochdale has left the party and defected to another. Now normally that's not too newsworthy, as a lot of local councillors change affiliation each year. However, this one defected to the Brexit Party, citing the Lib Dem's stance on leaving the EU. Given that she'd only joined the Lib Dems six months previously, having defected from Labour, you'd think that she would of been well aware that the Lib Dems are more pro-EU than the EU itself. In the words of The Doors, people are strange. |
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14th July 2019, 12:18 PM
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#60
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Cœur poids plume
Joined: 3 November 2007
Posts: 18,129 User: 4,718
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The councillor's quotes suggest that she believes that councillors play a part in 'honouring the result of the referendum.'
QUOTE Lib Dem group leader Andy Kelly said: “It sounds like Coun Nixon is a little bit lost politically.' Quite. |
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