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 The week in the world, because the pace of events is immense it's easy to miss stu |
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 Dec 22 2018, 12:37 PM
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#341
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,812 User: 17,376 
  
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 21 2018, 03:06 PM)  I'd be happy with that, as long as we're out.  Your moaning about 2 years worth of moaning suggests it'll still be same people doing the moaning. Mostly from the other side it'll be factual "i told you so" statements. Plus, saying thank you for closing down a brexit thread that you caused and hijacking another thread to carry it on suggests you arent happy about your comments closing it down at all. This thread is for non eu brexit items for those BOBs out there... |
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Dec 22 2018, 03:09 PM
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#342
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Dec 22 2018, 12:37 PM) Your moaning about 2 years worth of moaning suggests it'll still be same people doing the moaning. Mostly from the other side it'll be factual "i told you so" statements. Plus, saying thank you for closing down a brexit thread that you caused and hijacking another thread to carry it on suggests you arent happy about your comments closing it down at all. If you check back, you'll see I never once used the word 'Brexit'...
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Dec 22 2018, 08:50 PM
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#343
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,812 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 22 2018, 03:09 PM) If you check back, you'll see I never once used the word 'Brexit'... "BTW - a big thank you to Brett Butler for closing the EU thread, it'll be a relief not to hear Remainers complaining about it for a few days... wink.gif" |
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Dec 23 2018, 06:45 AM
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#344
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Dec 22 2018, 08:50 PM) "BTW - a big thank you to Brett Butler for closing the EU thread, it'll be a relief not to hear Remainers complaining about it for a few days... wink.gif" Yes, but I still didn't use the word 'Brexit', did I... 
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Dec 23 2018, 11:31 AM
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#345
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 Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,030 User: 18,639
      
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Don't be so facetious. It is clear what IT means here.
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Dec 23 2018, 11:36 AM
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#346
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,812 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 23 2018, 06:45 AM) Yes, but I still didn't use the word 'Brexit', did I... Nobody said you did. Patting yourself on the back for something you commented on but seem to get childlike joy out of the irrelevant vocabulary used when it was pointed out comes over as a bit, yknow, na na na na. |
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Dec 24 2018, 06:14 AM
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#347
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Dec 23 2018, 11:36 AM) Nobody said you did. Patting yourself on the back for something you commented on but seem to get childlike joy out of the irrelevant vocabulary used when it was pointed out comes over as a bit, yknow, na na na na. Given how unrepresentative this group is of the EU referendum decision, I have to look for whatever I can get.  |
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Jan 10 2019, 03:15 PM
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#348
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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Are we turning our children into 'snowflakes'?
OK, that's not quite what the article is saying, but at least it acknowledges the danger in over-protecting them... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...ss-in-teenagers |
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Jan 10 2019, 03:58 PM
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#349
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,653 User: 3,272
    
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 10 2019, 03:15 PM) Are we turning our children into 'snowflakes'? OK, that's not quite what the article is saying, but at least it acknowledges the danger in over-protecting them... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...ss-in-teenagers The key point is that, contrary to a lot of tabloid headlines, the over-protection tends to come from parents. They are the ones not letting their children play outside etc. Of course, some of the people who complain that children don’t play outside enough are also the people who complain that children playing outside make too much noise. |
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Jan 10 2019, 07:05 PM
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#350
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
 
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I'm a really big admirer of Jonathan Haidt - as I've stated on many occasions, his book "The Righteous Mind" is one of the most important books I've read in the past few years - it essential reading for anyone who wants to understand why people on the other end of the political divide think the way that they do. I've meant to get around to reading the book he's promoting in this piece, although I imagine that I won't get as much out of it as I did from "TRM" (at least until I have children).
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Jan 25 2019, 11:47 AM
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#351
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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Saw an interesting documentary last night on PBS America - Winston Churchill : Winning The War, Losing The Peace
It gives an insight on why he lost the 1945 election - basically because he was out-of-touch with the ordinary people, coming across as the type of 19th C Tory that a certain poster here likes to claim the Tories still are. If nothing else, that very landslide win for Labour showed the Tories there was no future in that outdated attitude, and why so few Tories nowadays actually espouse it.
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Jan 25 2019, 02:55 PM
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#352
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,653 User: 3,272
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It's often forgotten that Churchill was loathed by many working class voters before the War. Even in wartime they still despised much of what he stood for even if they respected his role as a figurehead.
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Jan 27 2019, 07:06 AM
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#353
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-66...tudy-finds.html
One in 20 Britons do not believe the Holocaust took place, and one in 12 believes its scale has been exaggerated, study finds One in 20 people in Britain do not believe the Nazi death camps ever existed The revelation provoked concern from Jewish leaders and Holocaust survivors A survey by the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust also found one in 12 believe the scale of the Holocaust has been exaggerated https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/...ocaust-happened **************************** I simply do not believe these numbers - we know the extreme-right gets 1% or less in national elections, so IMO that's surely the maximum it could be. I wonder just how the survey questions were phrased? 
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Jan 27 2019, 09:57 AM
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#354
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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I believe the question asked was Have you ever seen or heard the word Holocaust before? so I think it is more about ignorance than actual Holocaust denial, though still quite shocking itself. The Independent headline claiming that 2.6 million people in the UK are Holocaust Deniers is just ludicrous and it makes me quite sad that journalism has just basically become copying and pasting press releases.
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Jan 27 2019, 03:00 PM
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#355
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jan 27 2019, 09:57 AM) I believe the question asked was Have you ever seen or heard the word Holocaust before? so I think it is more about ignorance than actual Holocaust denial, though still quite shocking itself. The Independent headline claiming that 2.6 million people in the UK are Holocaust Deniers is just ludicrous and it makes me quite sad that journalism has just basically become copying and pasting press releases. I guess it proves that even I don't read newspaper headlines unquestioningly.. .
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Feb 6 2019, 04:14 PM
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#356
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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Straw poll ; which is a more reliable source, Daily Mail, or Breitbart?
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Feb 6 2019, 05:27 PM
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#357
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,072 User: 3,474
  
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C) A meth addict on a 60 day bender
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Feb 7 2019, 10:01 AM
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#358
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Feb 6 2019, 05:27 PM) C) A meth addict on a 60 day bender Very droll. |
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Feb 15 2019, 06:49 AM
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#359
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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John McDonnell's comments have created some controversy, so...
Tonypandy - a different perspective For many people, the name Tonypandy means little, except perhaps when applied to the late Viscount Tonypandy, a much-loved Speaker of the House of Commons in the Seventies and Eighties. However, for socialist rabble rousers such as Labour’s Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell, the name of this former coal-mining town is seared as deeply into their memories as Orgreave, Wapping and other places where violent militancy was dealt a bloody nose by the forces of law and order. According to Left-wing mythology, Tonypandy was the scene of the shameful and brutal suppression of a coal-miners’ strike and rioting in November 1910, with the insurrection finally quelled by the then home secretary — none other than Winston Churchill — who sent in the Army to crush the disturbance. If you listened to McDonnell this week, you might start to believe that the way Churchill and the British Army behaved at Tonypandy outweighed their courage decades later in liberating Europe from tyranny. Yesterday, when justifying calling Churchill a ‘villain’, McDonnell told ITV News: ‘He sent the troops into Tonypandy to shoot the miners, and a miner died. Others were injured. It was to break a strike.’ Later in the interview, McDonnell repeated his claim that the troops killed a miner: ‘Tonypandy was a disgrace, sending the troops in, killing a miner trying to break a strike.’ McDonnell added that if his comment ‘prompted a more rounded debate about Churchill’s role, well, I welcome that’. As a historian, I would certainly welcome a more rounded debate about Winston Churchill — or indeed any historical figure. No serious historian would ever claim that Churchill was without flaws, some of which were very large indeed. And yet McDonnell’s egregious misrepresentation of the events that took place in Tonypandy are so shocking that they cannot go unchallenged. The truth is almost the complete opposite of what the Shadow Chancellor claims. The problem is that hard-Leftists such as McDonnell and his acolytes — who predictably attacked Churchill on Twitter yesterday — are utterly wedded to the Marxist narrative that the murderous forces of capitalism crush the workers into poverty and early graves. Any presentation of facts that may conflict with their blinkered worldview will simply be dismissed as Right-wing lies. So what exactly are the facts? What did happen in South Wales back in November 1910, and why do the events in a small town a long time ago still resonate so deeply for the Left? The roots of the story lie in the summer of that year, when a dispute between miners and management broke out at a colliery near Tonypandy over rates of pay. On September 1, the owners locked out nearly 1,000 pitmen after a disagreement over the rate at which coal was to be extracted from a newly created seam. This was despite the fact that the dispute involved only 70 workers. This resulted in the 12,000 miners who worked for the local mining cartel — called the Cambrian Combine — going on strike on November 1 in support. Matters soon turned ugly — and then violent. Striking and picketing miners tried to stop the enginemen and stokers from ensuring that the pits did not fill up with water and poisonous gas. In most instances, the miners were successful in turning the workers away, but some, such as David Deere, a winding engineer at the Clydach Vale pit, were determined to get through. On Monday November 7, he tested his luck. ‘I went on, and soon had a crowd of hundreds round me and could get no further,’ he told Daily Mail’s Special Correspondent. ‘It was one man against 1,000. ‘I turned to one side towards High Street and at once I was off my feet. For 50 yards I never touched the ground. They were striking me and pushing me against the wall. At last I got into a doorway and a brave woman, Mrs Duveen, let me into her house.’ For the next two hours, Deere stayed inside, fearing for his life. Throughout the rest of the day, the miners paraded around the town, and cared little for the fact that hundreds of ponies had been left in the pits without food or water, and with dangerous gases building up. It was by that night that local officials were fearing the situation would turn worse, with one informing the Mail that he hoped some troops that had been requested from the Home Office would turn up. The official’s hopes were in vain, because although Winston Churchill had dispatched two squadrons of the 18th Hussars to Cardiff from Marlborough, they had still not arrived, and — despite the claims of John McDonnell — the home secretary was extremely reluctant to use them. They were not to arrive in Cardiff until 6.30pm the following evening. The Chief Constable of Glamorganshire, Captain Lindsay, was desperate for troops, and asked the Home Office for the Hussars to come as soon as possible. Churchill’s reply was to dismay him, and was to be lambasted as ‘vacillation’ by an editorial in this very paper. ‘You may give the miners a message from me,’ Churchill cabled. ‘Their best friends [the Government] are greatly distressed at the trouble which has broken out, and will do their best to help them get fair treatment.’ After calling for a cessation of rioting, Churchill continued: ‘Confiding in the good sense of the Cambrian Combine workmen, we are holding back the soldiers for the present and sending police instead.’ In other words, he was showing precisely the kind of restraint that John McDonnell says was shockingly absent. Tuesday, November 8 would prove to be fateful. With a limited local police force, and with Churchill hesitating about sending in the troops, the miners had the town to themselves. As a force of 270 London policeman were not to arrive until around 10 o’clock that night, they were too late to stop much of Tonypandy being laid waste by a marauding mob, who smashed and looted nearly every shop and tried to light several fires. It was estimated that they caused some £30,000 worth of damage — the equivalent of some £12 million today. Yet there was no mention of that in the avalanche of Left-wing condemnation of Churchill yesterday. When the police finally did arrive, several baton charges were made against the rioters, and around 120 of the local men were injured. One of them, Samuel Rhys, received a blow to the head which fractured his skull. He would die a few days later, and would be the only fatality in the riots. His sad fate is of course completely contradictory to the claim made by McDonnell on TV yesterday: he would have us believe that Rhys had been shot by the Army. Yet as we have seen, the Army was still on its way to Cardiff when Rhys was injured, and his skull fracture was clearly the result of a blow rather than a bullet. The baton charges were led by the Chief Constable, Captain Lindsay, who was injured, along with six other policemen. The fact that at least one miner was seen carrying a double-barrelled shotgun is a testament to the bravery of the police. It would not be until the small hours of the Wednesday morning that the Hussars were finally ordered in and, even then, they did not arrive until around 8am. Photographs from the time show smart lines of mounted cavalry trotting incongruously through the streets of the mining town as though they have been dispatched directly from the Napoleonic wars. Their presence would immediately quell the rioting, and for the next few days, they effectively occupied the area. Although that made good sense in terms of security and safety, Churchill well knew there would be a political cost. He was understandably keen to avoid the impression that the government was trying to settle an industrial dispute by force. In the Commons, Churchill expressed his dislike at having to use the troops, even though they thankfully caused no deaths. ‘Law and order must be preserved,’ he said, ‘but I am confident that the House will agree with me that it is a great object of public policy to avoid a collision between soldiers and crowds of persons engaged in industrial disputes. For soldiers to fire on the people would be a catastrophe in our national life.’ Ultimately, Churchill would always regret sending in the Hussars. He did his best not to, and even regarded the miners as his friends, but politically, the move backfired, and he would be loathed by some quarters in South Wales — and on the Left — for decades to come. But the notion, as propagated by John McDonnell, that Churchill willingly sent in the troops to shoot people is just bad history. Churchill was no villain. Article by Guy Walters https://preview.tinyurl.com/y2bgumnp |
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Feb 16 2019, 08:39 PM
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#360
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,653 User: 3,272
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I see no point in reading any further than the words "socialist rabble rousers".
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