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BuzzJack Music Forum _ News and Politics _ USA vs Iran

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 3 2020, 05:17 AM

Qasem Soleimani has been among those killed in an Iraqi airport attack.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50979463

He was a top Iranian general and hugely significant in the region, very well known in Iran.

Iranian sources are warning that this means incredibly heightened tensions: https://twitter.com/farnazfassihi/status/1212916086057897987?s=19
if not actual war.

The Pentagon and President Trump have confirmed that this strike was American in origin. Expected escalation, likely retaliation.

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 3 2020, 05:32 AM



x

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Jan 3 2020, 08:47 AM

Nice little distraction for Trump away from the impeachment process.

Can't see Iran NOT retaliating TBH. Just depends where, when and how big. Could lead to all -out military action against Iran by the US. Hope we don't get dragged in to it. Boris should say NO and stand firm.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jan 3 2020, 10:32 AM

QUOTE(Iz~ @ Jan 3 2020, 05:32 AM) *


x


There really is a tweet for every occasion, isn't there?

Posted by: Santa Klaus Jan 3 2020, 10:35 AM



The only thing he's good at is being a hypocrite.

Posted by: Santa Klaus Jan 3 2020, 10:36 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris-tmas @ Jan 3 2020, 08:47 AM) *
Nice little distraction for Trump away from the impeachment process.

Can't see Iran NOT retaliating TBH. Just depends where, when and how big. Could lead to all -out military action against Iran by the US. Hope we don't get dragged in to it. Boris should say nO and stand firm.

Good job we're not in a position where we have to suck up to the US to get something eh?

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jan 3 2020, 12:19 PM

This is somewhat terrifying. Like I get that this dude was a seriously bad dude and is responsible for countless deaths and ruined lives. But this is a crass and careless act of war, if not straight up war crime, by a raging eejit who lacks the mental capacity to understand the consequences of his actions. I’m sure the already fed up of unauthorised IS air strikes in their sovereign territory Iraqis are gonna be super thrilled about this news

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 3 2020, 01:07 PM

Exactly, first and foremost, this was a war crime. One thing I don't like is that every politician and public figure commenting on this has had to preface their statement on it with that sentence: that he was a terrible person who had caused a lot ofsuffering.

It is a self-evident statement and though I'm sure most weren't meaning to, it in no way justifies this attack that will likely lead to the deaths of many more people. Far too few people I've seen outright condemning it.

Posted by: JingleBellJüpes Jan 3 2020, 11:49 PM

Here's hoping that since Trump has admitted responsibility for the attack, Iran decides to take retaliation straight to the source. Two birds with one stone for peace that would be.

Posted by: Crazy Chris-tmas Jan 4 2020, 12:14 AM

QUOTE(JingleBellJüpes @ Jan 3 2020, 11:49 PM) *
Here's hoping that since Trump has admitted responsibility for the attack, Iran decides to take retaliation straight to the source. Two birds with one stone for peace that would be.




What a terrible thing to say. No-one wants the serving US President to be killed.

Posted by: JingleBellJüpes Jan 4 2020, 12:17 AM

Did nobody want Qasem Soleimani to be killed? Seems not. What makes him different?

Posted by: 👍 Codyland 👍 Jan 4 2020, 12:23 AM

the days are numbered for all life on earth anyway with the news of this spurring so it’s not like it’s gonna make a difference x

Posted by: Rooney Jan 4 2020, 12:41 AM

QUOTE(JingleBellJüpes @ Jan 4 2020, 12:17 AM) *
Did nobody want Qasem Soleimani to be killed? Seems not. What makes him different?


He was a questionable man, but this act was not the right way to go about things. Surely one power you don't want to piss off is Iran. Anyway my two cents of all this is there is just no strategy from the US. Not sure where this leaves them now between Russia, China and themselves. Little chance this escalates in to any sort of proper war, it will all be asset slashing or attacks on networks.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 4 2020, 12:55 AM

President Donald Trump has said the US killed Iran's top military commander Qasem Soleimani "to stop a war, not to start one".

He said Soleimani's "reign of terror is over" after the strike at Baghdad airport in Iraq on Friday. Soleimani spearheaded Iran's Middle East operations as head of the Quds Force.

Iran has vowed "severe revenge" on those responsible for his death.

The killing marks a major escalation in tensions between the two counties.

US officials have said 3,000 additional troops will be sent to the Middle East as a precaution.

Iraqi state television says there has been another air strike in the country, 24 hours after the killing of Soleimani. However, there has been no comment on this from Washington.

An Iraqi army source told Reuters news agency that the new strike hit a convey of Iraqi militia in the early hours of Saturday morning (local time).



Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 4 2020, 01:01 AM

The BBC understands that Boris Johnson was not told in advance by Trump of the planned killing.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jan 4 2020, 06:30 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris-tmas @ Jan 4 2020, 12:14 AM) *
What a terrible thing to say. No-one wants the serving US President to be killed.


That's not true.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 4 2020, 08:01 AM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jan 4 2020, 06:30 AM) *
That's not true.



Also, talking about him being killed and assassinated, even if you're outside the US, could be taken as a threat and get you a visit from the US Secret Service. They're looking in to hundreds of online threats every week, even more than for Obama.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 4 2020, 11:06 AM

Very strangely Boris has as yet made no statement whatsoever about this which Corbyn has said is disgraceful. It's not known if Boris is back yet from his holiday in the Caribbean. Some reports say that he flies back today.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jan 4 2020, 12:36 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 4 2020, 08:01 AM) *
Also, talking about him being killed and assassinated, even if you're outside the US, could be taken as a threat and get you a visit from the US Secret Service. They're looking in to hundreds of online threats every week, even more than for Obama.


That's what I'm talking about.

Twitter (for instance) is awash with people who want him to meet his demise, so it's not accurate to say that "no one wants him killed".

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 4 2020, 01:20 PM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jan 4 2020, 12:36 PM) *
That's what I'm talking about.

Twitter (for instance) is awash with people who want him to meet his demise, so it's not accurate to say that "no one wants him killed".



Okay then a lot do want him dead. sad.gif


Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 4 2020, 01:33 PM

I think there's two sides to this. Yes the man was supposedly very evil and responsible for allegedly a lot of deaths and a threat to America. The world is probably a safer place without him. However it's reported that Trump took the decision himself, against the advice of some of his generals. who were reportedly fairly split on this. He assumes Iran won't do much but just sabre-rattle a bit. Let's hope he's right. The US has advised all Americans to leave Iraq as soon as possible according to Sky as they are in danger. US Embassies in the region are being given extra troops to protect them.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 4 2020, 01:55 PM

Very interesting Twitter thread.


https://twitter.com/rcallimachi/status/1213421769777909761

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 5 2020, 06:28 AM

QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jan 4 2020, 12:36 PM) *
That's what I'm talking about.

Twitter (for instance) is awash with people who want him to meet his demise, so it's not accurate to say that "no one wants him killed".


True - but Twitter is not the most reliable gauge of overall public opinion. rolleyes.gif

FWIW, I don't think this assassination was the wisest move, though. thinking.gif

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 5 2020, 07:46 AM

Trump's tough talking Tweet last night.


Iran is talking very boldly about targeting certain USA assets as revenge for our ridding the world of their terrorist leader who had just killed an American, & badly wounded many others, not to mention all of the people he had killed over his lifetime, including recently....
....hundreds of Iranian protesters. He was already attacking our Embassy, and preparing for additional hits in other locations. Iran has been nothing but problems for many years. Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have.....
....targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 5 2020, 07:50 AM

The fact that he's threatened targets important to Iranian culture is said to be very worrying. I don't think he's bluffing either. He doesn't strike me as a President to mess with.

Posted by: Jüpiter👑 Jan 5 2020, 08:26 AM

He's a daft eejit who could do with growing up. & he's happy to risk his people's safety because all evidence points to him having never given a fig about anyone in his life except slim possibly his daughter Ivanka. He's basically inviting a second 9/11 in retribution.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 5 2020, 08:46 AM

QUOTE(Jüpiter👑 @ Jan 5 2020, 08:26 AM) *
He's a daft eejit who could do with growing up. & he's happy to risk his people's safety because all evidence points to him having never given a fig about anyone in his life except slim possibly his daughter Ivanka. He's basically inviting a second 9/11 in retribution.



Surely if they kill any Americans he'd be right to hit back? I'd hit back very hard! Don't know about you. It'll be Iran escalating things now and the next move is theirs.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 5 2020, 10:03 AM

@realDonaldTrump

The United States just spent Two Trillion Dollars on Military Equipment. We are the biggest and by far the BEST in the World! If Iran attacks an American Base, or any American, we will be sending some of that brand new beautiful equipment their way...and without hesitation!
5:11 am · 5 Jan 2020


Looks like he's not listening to Raab's pleas for both sides to de-escalate the tension. ohmy.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 5 2020, 10:18 AM

And still not a word from our so-called Prime Minister.

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 5 2020, 10:32 AM

Cowardice. When America commits illegal acts... suddenly it's fine because the attackers are white and speak English?

Raab has further called this an 'act of self-defense'. He might want to look at which country this happened in and whether that country is Trump's country.

There's a very real concern in my eyes that this legitimises political assassination under international law unless sanctions are taken.

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 5 2020, 10:33 AM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 5 2020, 10:18 AM) *
And still not a word from our so-called Prime Minister.


Is there any answer he could give that wouldn't make things worse?

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 5 2020, 10:37 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 5 2020, 10:33 AM) *
Is there any answer he could give that wouldn't make things worse?


I mean, this is precisely it. He can't call out America because he's put himself in a position where it's not a good idea to criticise them. If he looks like he's supportive then everyone starts thinking of 2003 and phrases like 'America's lapdog' even more than they're doing now.

It is a bit of an unenviable position but at least coming out with a safe 'he was bad man but this might have overstepped international law, we condemn violence, hope for deescalation' would look a bit better than silence because he's just been on holiday - look at what that did to Morrison in Australia.

Posted by: Rooney Jan 5 2020, 12:00 PM

I mean let's be honest, the reason for the quiet from Johnson is largely because unsurprisingly we're in the dark. The USA are supposedly one of our biggest allies yet imo it's pretty clear that we were only briefed either as it was happening or after it happened. Now as much as I dislike this Tory cabinet, I'd largely say the majority of them want to avoid a war and provately feel the act commited by the USA was pretty reckless. But we're in a situation now where we have our balls on a stick if we want a "magnificent" trade deal.

if anything this act just proves to me that other countries have us by the balls, we need them more than they need us so it's going to be difficult to flex our nationalism on the larger stage.

Posted by: Jüpiter👑 Jan 5 2020, 12:09 PM

A simple message echoing what every other Western leader has set out would have done nicely, perhaps more ambiguously worded so as not to offer support outright.

No doubt though those in charge of the UK, who've already proved themselves callous towards innocent citizens, especially the poor, will end up treating this like a RPG and open up the British public to a direct retaliation attack from Iran. Just because they can't keep their mouths shut and play the diplomacy game like everyone else is doing.

Posted by: Flatcap Jan 5 2020, 12:23 PM

QUOTE(Iz~ @ Jan 3 2020, 05:32 AM) *


x

Just seen the date, oops.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 5 2020, 01:23 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Jan 5 2020, 12:00 PM) *
I mean let's be honest, the reason for the quiet from Johnson is largely because unsurprisingly we're in the dark. The USA are supposedly one of our biggest allies yet imo it's pretty clear that we were only briefed either as it was happening or after it happened. Now as much as I dislike this Tory cabinet, I'd largely say the majority of them want to avoid a war and provately feel the act commited by the USA was pretty reckless. But we're in a situation now where we have our balls on a stick if we want a "magnificent" trade deal.

if anything this act just proves to me that other countries have us by the balls, we need them more than they need us so it's going to be difficult to flex our nationalism on the larger stage.



QUOTE(Jüpiter👑 @ Jan 5 2020, 12:09 PM) *
A simple message echoing what every other Western leader has set out would have done nicely, perhaps more ambiguously worded so as not to offer support outright.

No doubt though those in charge of the UK, who've already proved themselves callous towards innocent citizens, especially the poor, will end up treating this like a RPG and open up the British public to a direct retaliation attack from Iran. Just because they can't keep their mouths shut and play the diplomacy game like everyone else is doing.

Exactly. I doubt Merkel or Macron knew any more in advance than Johnson did. Trump doesn't do consultation. I assume Turkey's president Erdogan was also not told even though they are also in NATO and share a border with Iraq. It should be noted that Iraq also have good reason to be extremely angry at this attack.

Both Merkel and Macron have made a statement even if they haven't said a great deal. Johnson has still said precisely nothing. As others have said elsewhere, Johnson desperately wanted to win the job of PM. He just seems rather less inclined actually to DO it.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 5 2020, 03:30 PM

Seems as if the Foreign Secretary was the UK's spokesperson this morning, on Sky and Marr too. No need for Boris to speak really.

Posted by: mald487 Jan 5 2020, 07:22 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 5 2020, 03:30 PM) *
Seems as if the Foreign Secretary was the UK's spokesperson this morning, on Sky and Marr too. No need for Boris to speak really.



Sweet jesus give it a rest

He is the Prime Minister, he absolutely should of have said something. It's an awkward position but a carefully worded statement from him should have been a given.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 5 2020, 07:47 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 5 2020, 03:30 PM) *
Seems as if the Foreign Secretary was the UK's spokesperson this morning, on Sky and Marr too. No need for Boris to speak really.

That might have been vaguely acceptable if the Foreign Secretary was someone of stature who commanded respect. Unfortunately, it is a man who didn't know that Dover-Calais was an important trade route.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 5 2020, 07:54 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 5 2020, 07:47 PM) *
That might have been vaguely acceptable if the Foreign Secretary was someone of stature who commanded respect. Unfortunately, it is a man who didn't know that Dover-Calais was an important trade route.



Well Emily Thornberry said she spoke "for the entire country" when she said we shouldn't join the US in any conflict. How can she possibly know that? Better to say nothing than talk crap like that.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 5 2020, 07:55 PM

QUOTE(mald487 @ Jan 5 2020, 07:22 PM) *
Sweet jesus give it a rest

He is the Prime Minister, he absolutely should of have said something. It's an awkward position but a carefully worded statement from him should have been a given.



He was on holiday and only came back late yesterday apparently.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 5 2020, 07:58 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 5 2020, 07:54 PM) *
Well Emily Thornberry said she spoke "for the entire country" when she said we shouldn't join the US in any conflict. How can she possibly know that? Better to say nothing than talk crap like that.

I don't recall you saying that when Johnson was going around babbling on about how we all wanted to get on with leaving the EU.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 5 2020, 07:59 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 5 2020, 07:55 PM) *
He was on holiday and only came back late yesterday apparently.

That's no excuse for not even issuing a statement. Perhaps you weren't aware of the fact that PMs generally have access to a lot of sophisticated communications equipment.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 5 2020, 08:01 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 5 2020, 07:59 PM) *
That's no excuse for not even issuing a statement. Perhaps you weren't aware of the fact that PMs generally have access to a lot of sophisticated communications equipment.



Yes I know that. Even Trump could have spoken to him but chose not to.

Posted by: Bré Jan 5 2020, 08:18 PM

He has issued a statement now and it's just the generic 'he was a bad guy but everyone de-escalate please' the same as Dominic Raab said.

The last time there was a big assassination in the news that everyone fearmongered about being the start of World War III ended up being forgotten within days (I don't even remember the guy's name oops) - admittedly this seems like it's probably a bit more of a big deal and it's pretty scary news but here's hoping we aren't really going to repeat the mistake of the Iraq War with Iran. So far Iran's retaliation seems to amount to ending their commitments to the nuclear deal which... they had every right to do already a long time ago when Trump unilaterally pulled out of it really.

Posted by: ChRiMbO LeG PiPe Jan 5 2020, 08:25 PM

Obama had a functioning deal with Iran. Trump tore it up as he wanted to undo his presidency. Trump is a white supremacist.

Posted by: mald487 Jan 5 2020, 09:03 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 5 2020, 07:54 PM) *
Well Emily Thornberry said....


Stop deflecting.

Posted by: Wall Jan 5 2020, 09:37 PM

Hopefully Scotland are independent ASAP

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 5 2020, 11:39 PM

An $80million bounty has been placed on Donald Trump's head in the wake of General Qasem Soleimani's assassination, according to reports.

During the televised funeral of the top Iranian, official state broadcasters said one US dollar would be tabled for every Iranian in the country, with the cash going to whoever killed the US President.


“Iran has 80 million inhabitants. Based on the Iranian population, we want to raise $80million (£61million) which is a reward for those who get close to the head of President Trump,” it was announced, according to en24.

Soleimani, Iran's preeminent military commander, was killed on Friday in a US drone strike on his convoy at Baghdad airport.



Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 5 2020, 11:45 PM

Also an Iranian MP has said they may attack the White House. I'm sure the Secret Service will be waiting and will even increase security.


This will mean that he'll need very good Secret Service protection for the rest of his life. All ex-Presidents and their spouses get it, even 95 year-old Carter still. The amount of agents assigned varies though depending on the perceived threat. Carter only has a couple living in now and I read they get bored letting the cat out at night!

Posted by: Jüpiter👑 Jan 6 2020, 02:03 AM

No big loss then.

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 6 2020, 05:55 AM

QUOTE(ChRiMbO LeG PiPe @ Jan 5 2020, 08:25 PM) *
Obama had a functioning deal with Iran. Trump tore it up as he wanted to undo his presidency. Trump is a white supremacist.


That's a claim often repeated...

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 07:43 AM

Anyway Salman Rushdie had a huge bounty on his head and nothing happened. Just cost us a lot to give him 24 hour protection.

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 6 2020, 07:48 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 07:43 AM) *
Anyway Salman Rushdie had a huge bounty on his head and nothing happened. Just cost us a lot to give him 24 hour protection.


Funny that we're not hearing much of what ordinary Iranians think about the assassination... rolleyes.gif

What reports *do* leak out, suggest that it is a popular move amongst them. thinking.gif

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 07:50 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 6 2020, 07:48 AM) *
Funny that we're not hearing much of what ordinary Iranians think about the assassination... rolleyes.gif

What reports *do* leak out, suggest that it is a popular move amongst them. thinking.gif



Yes they were saying that elsewhere last night. Many who fled Iran are said to be appalled yet hated him before. rolleyes.gif Suppose it''s another excuse to hate the US though.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 07:53 AM

Wonder if Trump's shaking in his shower this morning with that huge bounty on his head. laugh.gif Thing is, his family will all need increased protection too and after he's left office either next January or Jan. 2025. I believe his eldest son dispensed with his SS detail but they say he'll be forced to have it again now. If some nutter did it Iran wouldn't pay up anyway and what good's £61m if you've been shot dead by the Secret Service or are in jail for life.

I hope none of his bodyguards get any ideas. Remember what happened to Indira Gandhi, in a secure area, her mansion gardens, but taken out by one of her own bodyguards. sad.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 6 2020, 08:28 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 07:43 AM) *
Anyway Salman Rushdie had a huge bounty on his head and nothing happened. Just cost us a lot to give him 24 hour protection.

You seem to be suggesting that nothing bwould have happened even if we had spent 50p on protection. That’s the same flawed logic that leads to people saying the money spent on AIDS prevention in the 1980s was wasted.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 08:33 AM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 6 2020, 08:28 AM) *
You seem to be suggesting that nothing bwould have happened even if we had spent 50p on protection. That’s the same flawed logic that leads to people saying the money spent on AIDS prevention in the 1980s was wasted.



Well as far as I can recall there were no attempts to kill him.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 08:38 AM

Dominic Raab has repeatedly said on Sky News this morning that "there will be no war" Pressed over and over again by Kay Burley, "what if there is?" he kept saying there won't be so that's good news. I can't see Iran doing much as they know the US will crush them.

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 6 2020, 09:33 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 07:50 AM) *
Yes they were saying that elsewhere last night. Many who fled Iran are said to be appalled yet hated him before. rolleyes.gif Suppose it''s another excuse to hate the US though.


This is not a contradiction. You can hate the man and also be appalled at the manner of his death.

US goddamn imperialism. Iraq has now asked that all US troops leave its borders, the USA's response is to threaten them with sanctions. It's not world peace, it's enforcement of an American empire.

War, perhaps not right now but I expect a significant move from Iran somewhere.

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 6 2020, 09:40 AM

QUOTE(Iz~ @ Jan 6 2020, 09:33 AM) *
This is not a contradiction. You can hate the man and also be appalled at the manner of his death.

US goddamn imperialism. Iraq has now asked that all US troops leave its borders, the USA's response is to threaten them with sanctions. It's not world peace, it's enforcement of an American empire.


This is the real world, not Star Trek with its non-interference 'Prime Directive'. mellow.gif

Posted by: *Tim Jan 6 2020, 09:47 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 6 2020, 10:40 AM) *
This is the real world, not Star Trek with its non-interference 'Prime Directive'. mellow.gif

This is the real world, where the US and many other world powers have been bullying less powerful countries into doing what they want them to do in order to increase their power.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 09:54 AM

QUOTE(*Tim @ Jan 6 2020, 09:47 AM) *
This is the real world, where the US and many other world powers have been bullying less powerful countries into doing what they want them to do in order to increase their power.



Trump didn't attack a country. He took out an evil man, a known terrorist who was threatening the safety of the US and it's assets and allies. End of. As they're saying on Sky now, they had a chance to kill him before but chose not to. Trump decided the time was right now.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 10:05 AM

US SOS Pompeo first spoke with Trump about killing Soleimani months ago, said a senior U.S. official, but neither the president nor Pentagon officials were willing to countenance such an operation.

Trump’s decision to target Soleimani came as a surprise and a shock to some officials briefed on his decision, given the Pentagon’s long-standing concerns about escalation and the president’s aversion to using military force against Iran.

One significant factor was the “lockstep” coordination for the operation between Pompeo and Esper, both graduates in the same class at the U.S. Military Academy, who deliberated ahead of the briefing with Trump, senior U.S. officials said. Pence also endorsed the decision, but he did not attend the meeting in Florida.

But critics inside and outside the administration have questioned Pompeo’s justification for the strike based on his claims that “dozens if not hundreds” of American lives were at risk. Lawmakers left classified briefings with U.S. intelligence officials on Friday saying they heard nothing to suggest that the threat posed by the proxy forces guided by Soleimani had changed substantially in recent months.

When repeatedly pressed on Sunday about the imminent nature of the threats, whether it was days or weeks away, or whether they had been foiled by the U.S. airstrike, Pompeo dismissed the questions.

“If you’re an American in the region, days and weeks — this is not something that’s relevant,” Pompeo told CNN.

After Trump tapped Pompeo to lead the CIA, Pompeo quickly set up an Iran Mission Center at the agency to focus intelligence-gathering efforts and operations, elevating Iran’s importance as an intelligence target.

At the State Department, he is a voracious consumer of diplomatic notes and reporting on Iran, and he places the country far above other geopolitical and economic hot spots in the world.

“If it’s about Iran, he will read it,” said one diplomat, referring to the massive flow of paper that crosses Pompeo’s desk. “If it’s not, good luck.”

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 6 2020, 10:06 AM

Being against interventions isn't living in a fictional world. The net effect of Middle-East interventionism over the post-Cold War period has been to destabilise the region to the benefit of only American oil capitalists. Democratisation and advances in the Middle East over this time period have happened in spite of interventions. Non-interference is a policy that should be practiced.

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 09:54 AM) *
Trump took out an evil man, a known terrorist who was threatening the safety of the US and it's assets and allies. End of. As they're saying on Sky now, they had a chance to kill him before but chose not to. Trump decided the time was right now.


And yet most of Trump's allies, and the man himself, had not mentioned Suleimanei's name in the public space via Twitter, once.



Throws a bit of a wrench in the narrative that he was a clear and present threat if he was only being talked about behind closed doors and not in the media.

I mean, the ultimate goal as to why this is happening now is to distract from impeachment. This has been done from high levels of the Trump administration and outside of that and his toadies, there isn't support for it. The side-effect of getting those American capitalist institutions who profit from war everything they wanted, the oil companies, the mercenaries, the assets as you put it, is just a bonus. There is no care at all for the lives of Iraqi and Iranian civilians who will likely die from followup actions.

Posted by: *Tim Jan 6 2020, 10:10 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 10:54 AM) *
Trump didn't attack a country. He took out an evil man, a known terrorist who was threatening the safety of the US and it's assets and allies. End of. As they're saying on Sky now, they had a chance to kill him before but chose not to. Trump decided the time was right now.

But he killed a man on Iraqi soil. What is not clicking? That is invading the sovereinity of the country. Imagine the US striking a base in the UK to take someone out. Would that be OK?

Iraq has every right to be mad, but now that they take a stance, the US threaten them with sanctions worse than Iran.

What actually have they accomplished by this? They killed 1 terrorist (one they even worked with when it was convenient) who deserved it, but also gotten 2 nations riled up, Iran quitting the Nuclear Agreement of 2015 completely and American citizens being ordered to leave the region :')

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 10:21 AM

Some of Trump's hardline advisers are said to be telling him now to tell the Iraqis to F off and refuse to pull the US out on the grounds that "we helped rebuild Iraq"


I bet the Secret Service are wondering now how the hell they can protect Trump and the crowds at all his planned rallies and appearances during the election campaign.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 6 2020, 10:30 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 08:33 AM) *
Well as far as I can recall there were no attempts to kill him.

Maybe because the protection made it too difficult.

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 6 2020, 10:50 AM

QUOTE(*Tim @ Jan 6 2020, 09:47 AM) *
This is the real world, where the US and many other world powers have been bullying less powerful countries into doing what they want them to do in order to increase their power.


Only the totalitarian ones, to make themselves safer.

Posted by: *Tim Jan 6 2020, 11:51 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 6 2020, 11:50 AM) *
Only the totalitarian ones, to make themselves safer.

The point being?

Posted by: Klaus Jan 6 2020, 12:45 PM



Really tired of the endless defence of a man who has no idea what he’s doing.

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 6 2020, 02:25 PM

QUOTE(*Tim @ Jan 6 2020, 11:51 AM) *
The point being?


I don't understand - that *was* the point.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 03:20 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 6 2020, 12:45 PM) *


Really tired of the endless defence of a man who has no idea what he’s doing.



Of course he knows what he's doing. He rid the world of a dangerous man.

Posted by: *Tim Jan 6 2020, 03:30 PM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 6 2020, 03:25 PM) *
I don't understand - that *was* the point.

So you agree that the US bullies other nations with sanctions if they risk losing their power?

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 03:34 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 6 2020, 12:45 PM) *
Really tired of the endless defence of a man who has no idea what he’s doing.


Well if he has no idea what he's doing then the American people will vote him out later this year.

Posted by: Klaus Jan 6 2020, 03:35 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 03:20 PM) *
Of course he knows what he's doing. He rid the world of a dangerous man.

It’s not such a binary choice as that though. It’s clear that there’s been no consideration as to the implications. It appears he was essentially advised not to take that action by people who are actually qualified to understand risks/benefits. He’s completely out of his depth at this level.

Carry on seeing him as your hero though. I’d like to see you be prepared to fight on the front lines as a direct result of his ignorant actions.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 03:41 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 6 2020, 03:35 PM) *
It’s not such a binary choice as that though. It’s clear that there’s been no consideration as to the implications. It appears he was essentially advised not to take that action by people who are actually qualified to understand risks/benefits. He’s completely out of his depth at this level.

Carry on seeing him as your hero though. I’d like to see you be prepared to fight on the front lines as a direct result of his ignorant actions.



There will be no war. Our Foreign Secretary said so this morning on Sky News. Just a bit of bluster from Iran. They daren't risk it. America could remove Iran from the face of the earth and I believe an angry Trump would do too.

How many of our allies, France, Germany, Italy etc, have condemned the killing? None. They may not have praised it much but haven't said he was wrong.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 03:46 PM

Also to be fair, the US President is there to make the final decision, especially to kill another national in a third country. Yes he receives advice and will have considered it. Pence was all for the killing too but didn't attend the final meeting in Florida on Friday.

Posted by: Klaus Jan 6 2020, 03:53 PM

Wow, so great to gave a President prepared to commit genocide.

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 03:46 PM) *
Also to be fair, the US President is there to make the final decision, especially to kill another national in a third country. Yes he receives advice and will have considered it. Pence was all for the killing too but didn't attend the final meeting in Florida on Friday.

But it is concerning that he takes such drastic action against advice to the contrary.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 03:55 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 6 2020, 03:53 PM) *
Wow, so great to gave a President prepared to commit genocide.
But it is concerning that he takes such drastic action against advice to the contrary.



He's not afraid to take bold decisions.

Posted by: Klaus Jan 6 2020, 03:59 PM

Like committing genocide?

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 04:03 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 6 2020, 03:59 PM) *
Like committing genocide?



Killing a dangerous terrorist is not genocide.

Posted by: Klaus Jan 6 2020, 04:04 PM

I didn’t say it was. This is genocide though:

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 03:41 PM) *
There will be no war. Our Foreign Secretary said so this morning on Sky News. Just a bit of bluster from Iran. They daren't risk it. America could remove Iran from the face of the earth and I believe an angry Trump would do too.


Posted by: Iz~ Jan 6 2020, 04:06 PM

Chris, I don't think you know what you're saying when you talk about Iran, Iran is a far different beast to Iraq or Afghanistan.

I have to hope that even Trump would balk at using nukes, and I do not think even he would risk it. Popping the nuke question over a mid-sized country like Iran is not the one to get out of MAD. That's the one route that would likely bring actual harm to American citizens in America.

So if there is actually a war, it will be a conventional war, an invasion, and Iran is not a country that American troops can fly in, set up base camps, and start strutting about with rifles strapped to their waist to root out the guerilla resistance. It has a stable government, exceptionally difficult terrain to fight in and enough military force that could easily bog down conventional American deployments. It would be Vietnam if not worse.

That's a reason why he won't go for it, but it's not about being able to crush Iran. It's more that they couldn't without expending a spectacularly unpopular and pointless excessive effort.

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 6 2020, 04:07 PM

Oh and also yeah, any form of nuking is absolutely genocide and anyone who considers doing it is a very very evil man.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 04:15 PM

I'm not saying using nukes. Where have I said that? He could all but obliterate Iran with bombs dropped from the air. Think of Bush bombing Baghdad but as an ex US general said on TV this morning "1000 times worse" Every city, every installation, the whole of Tehran virtually destroyed. Yes thousands or even millions of civilians would die and that's why they daren't push Trump too far. He's not a guy to mess with, as Farage has said today and he knows him well.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 6 2020, 04:17 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 04:15 PM) *
I'm not saying using nukes but he could all but obliterate Iran with bombs dropped from the air. Think of Bush bombing Baghdad but as an ex US general said on TV this morning "1000 times worse" Every city, every installation, the whole of Tehran virtually destroyed. Yes mil;lions of civilians would die and that's why they daren't push Trump too far. He's not a guy to mess with, as Farage has said today and he knows him well.

And how is that not genocide?

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 04:19 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 6 2020, 04:17 PM) *
And how is that not genocide?



That would be yes.

I don't think Trump would nuke Iran.

Posted by: Klaus Jan 6 2020, 04:24 PM

It doesn’t matter how he does it, you’re stating he’s prepared to commit genocide.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 04:29 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 6 2020, 04:24 PM) *
It doesn’t matter how he does it, you’re stating he’s prepared to commit genocide.



So should he do nothing if they attack the US? He's said they've identified 52 sites and will hit those hard.

Posted by: Klaus Jan 6 2020, 04:33 PM

Actually unbelievable.

Genocide is the new normal.

Posted by: ChRiMbO LeG PiPe Jan 6 2020, 04:38 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 03:55 PM) *
He's not afraid to take bold decisions.


Starting a nuclear third world war because he wanted to undo everything good a black president did is not a bold decision. It is idiocy and racism of the highest level.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 04:39 PM

QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 6 2020, 04:24 PM) *
It doesn’t matter how he does it, you’re stating he’s prepared to commit genocide.



I don't know do I. He may try to avoid civilian casualties.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 04:39 PM

QUOTE(ChRiMbO LeG PiPe @ Jan 6 2020, 04:38 PM) *
Starting a nuclear third world war because he wanted to undo everything good a black president did is not a bold decision. It is idiocy and racism of the highest level.



Where has he said he wants to do that?

Posted by: ChRiMbO LeG PiPe Jan 6 2020, 04:39 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 04:15 PM) *
I'm not saying using nukes. Where have I said that? He could all but obliterate Iran with bombs dropped from the air. Think of Bush bombing Baghdad but as an ex US general said on TV this morning "1000 times worse" Every city, every installation, the whole of Tehran virtually destroyed. Yes thousands or even millions of civilians would die and that's why they daren't push Trump too far. He's not a guy to mess with, as Farage has said today and he knows him well.


He's sounding more and more Hitlery. You are talking abput genocide. That makes Trump the bad guy.

Posted by: ChRiMbO LeG PiPe Jan 6 2020, 04:40 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 04:39 PM) *
Where has he said he wants to do that?


Oh lord.

Posted by: SausageDestroyer Jan 6 2020, 05:09 PM

For goodness sake Chris. Just stop with this doubling down. What you've been saying today is absolutely ridiculous. Unashamedly continuously supporting someone who would be okay and actually already threatened Iran with LITERAL genocide and calling that as "bold decision"?

What the actual fuck guys.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 05:39 PM

QUOTE(SausageDestroyer @ Jan 6 2020, 05:09 PM) *
For goodness sake Chris. Just stop with this doubling down. What you've been saying today is absolutely ridiculous. Unashamedly continuously supporting someone who would be okay and actually already threatened Iran with LITERAL genocide and calling that as "bold decision"?

What the actual fuck guys.



He will only attack if they do first. Do you expect the US to do nothing? rolleyes.gif He's given them a fair warning as far as I can see. Go on Twitter and see the support for him there. "Best US President ever and afraid of no-one"

Hillary would have been worse. She was a warmongerer.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 05:42 PM

QUOTE(SausageDestroyer @ Jan 6 2020, 05:09 PM) *
For goodness sake Chris. Just stop with this doubling down. What you've been saying today is absolutely ridiculous. Unashamedly continuously supporting someone who would be okay and actually already threatened Iran with LITERAL genocide and calling that as "bold decision"?

What the actual fuck guys.



He has said they'll hit 52 sites. I assume many are military installations. We don't know how many civilians are there. He hasn't threatened genocide. There are always some civilian casualties. Bush and Blair were guilty of genocide then. but they haven't been arrested.

Apparently he has said places of cultural significance are not exempt but I believe the UN and international law states they must be. So yes he is wrong on that.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 6 2020, 05:47 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 05:39 PM) *
He will only attack if they do first. Do you expect the US to do nothing? rolleyes.gif He's given them a fair warning as far as I can see. Go on Twitter and see the support for him there. "Best US President ever and afraid of no-one"

Hillary would have been worse. She was a warmongerer.

He's already attacked first. Now he is threatening genocide and you are supporting the idiot. The fact that there are a lot of morons on Twitter proves nothing. After all, plenty of other tinpot dictators have had a lot of support in their country.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 6 2020, 05:48 PM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 05:42 PM) *
He has said they'll hit 52 sites. I assume many are military installations. We don't know how many civilians are there. He hasn't threatened genocide. There are always some civilian casualties. Bush and Blair were guilty of genocide then. but they haven't been arrested.

Apparently he has said places of cultural significance are not exempt but I believe the UN and international law states they must be. So yes he is wrong on that.

Many? Not all then. He has threatened cultural sites. That is specifically prohibited under international law. Look at the outrage when Isis trashed historic sites such as Palmyra.

Posted by: Jüpiter👑 Jan 6 2020, 05:52 PM

Its as if you rightwingers on here think we can't see the pattern of what kind of people you support and what kinds you have all kinds of problems with.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 06:19 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 6 2020, 05:48 PM) *
Many? Not all then. He has threatened cultural sites. That is specifically prohibited under international law. Look at the outrage when Isis trashed historic sites such as Palmyra.



I have said that's wrong but who's going to tell him? Also he has to tell Congress of any military action but he says his Tweets serve as telling them. I admit he's wrong on that too.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 6 2020, 06:21 PM

QUOTE(Jüpiter👑 @ Jan 6 2020, 05:52 PM) *
Its as if you rightwingers on here think we can't see the pattern of what kind of people you support and what kinds you have all kinds of problems with.



Oh don't try to bring the race card in to it in a thinly veiled way. Guy was a dangerous terrorist whatever the colour of his skin.

Posted by: PeaceMob Jan 6 2020, 06:31 PM

Thank you President Trump for killing Soleimani, justice has been served in some tiny way for the gay Iranian men who were hanged from cranes organised by Soleimani and for the British soliders that have been killed and maimed from organised terrorist attacks from Soleimani.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 6 2020, 07:56 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Jan 6 2020, 06:31 PM) *
Thank you President Trump for killing Soleimani, justice has been served in some tiny way for the gay Iranian men who were hanged from cranes organised by Soleimani and for the British soliders that have been killed and maimed from organised terrorist attacks from Soleimani.

That's not justice. Justice involves that old-fashioned concept of a fair trial.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jan 6 2020, 08:13 PM

I can’t believe what I’m reading. The defence of actual genocide and war crimes makes me sick. Take a long hard look at yourselves.



This needs de-escalation ASAP. Am just praying that Iran of all countries can be the bigger party and not retaliate. The second they retaliate we’re in a full war situation.


So so so so so so proud of the Iraqis though. They are absolutely spot on to vote to evict the yanks. Their invited guest has repeatedly violated Iraq’s sovereignty and dramatically escalated regional tensions.


A lot was made after WWII of ensuring the Germans could never have a major armed forces again, top of the agenda after WWIII should be dismantling the US Military Industrial Complex and ensuring they can never destroy entire regions with their oil warfare.

The sooner the oil runs out the better for humanity.

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 7 2020, 06:02 AM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 6 2020, 07:56 PM) *
That's not justice. Justice involves that old-fashioned concept of a fair trial.


Good luck in get the perpetrators to hand themselves over for one...

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jan 7 2020, 08:28 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 7 2020, 06:02 AM) *
Good luck in get the perpetrators to hand themselves over for one...

That’s not the point and you know it.

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 7 2020, 08:33 AM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 7 2020, 08:28 AM) *
That’s not the point and you know it.


Yes, so?

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 7 2020, 11:09 AM

From CNN.

In the wake of Donald Trump’s drone strike on Iran’s top general Qasem Soleimani just days ago, safety concerns and security are high at today’s Golden Globes. The number of security checks on guests are unprecedented and a "sterile" no vehicle perimeter is in force all day. Sniffer dogs will perform checks inside the building all day and a final one just before the show starts.

“We are in a state of high alert,” a source at the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department told Deadline today of the 77th Globes as tensions escalate in the Middle East and Iranian and American officials offer threats of more explosive action. The FBI is also involved.

While officially the Alex Villanueva-led LASD had no statement on this evening’s event at the Beverly Hilton, we are also being told that there is a greater than ever presence by the Department “both seen by the naked eye and behind the scenes.”


Security has also been stepped up in cities all around the US but especially in New York and Washington. Dozens more heavily armed Secret Service agents, some with machine guns visible, are guarding the outer perimeter of the White House after a bounty was placed on the President's head.

Posted by: PeteFromLeeds Jan 7 2020, 06:29 PM

I came in here because I'm genuinely worried and wanted to see some down-to-earth responses about what's going on and instead I end up with the same old arguments that are on every other thread in here except this time you're actually supporting actions that could very likely kill hundreds of innocent civilians?

Chris/vidcapper etc., imagine you were in Iran right now and saw people arguing about your country and your lives right now how would you feel? These are real people we're talking about, just because they're not from the UK doesn't mean you can treat them any differently.

At this point I feel like if war did break out and Boris re-established conscription again then you would put your full support behind it and that scares me.

Posted by: ChRiMbO LeG PiPe Jan 7 2020, 07:23 PM

They support ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING Bojo does. Chris is just a government Bojo Trump propaganda speaker at this point. He's as bad as the BBC. The comments he made r.e genocide were just wow.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 7 2020, 07:29 PM

QUOTE(ChRiMbO LeG PiPe @ Jan 7 2020, 07:23 PM) *
They support ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING Bojo does. Chris is just a government Bojo Trump propaganda speaker at this point. He's as bad as the BBC. The comments he made r.e genocide were just wow.



I never supported genocide at all Michael. Of course it's wrong.

Posted by: ChRiMbO LeG PiPe Jan 7 2020, 07:34 PM

So Trump "wiping" a country "off the map" cannot be waved away as a "bold decision" and cannot be supported, yes?

Posted by: Jüpiter👑 Jan 7 2020, 08:56 PM

White man right,of course. Especially if he's just a little bit racist and stickin it to the progressives. Hehehe all good fun,,back to the good old days when any white man was automatically at the top of the pyramid no matter what he had or hadn't done with his life. Let's call a spade a spade here.

Posted by: ChRiMbO LeG PiPe Jan 8 2020, 12:52 AM

Iran has launched missiles at an Iraqi base. Let's hope the USA keeps calm and de-escalates. But seeing as Trump wants a war to get re-elected...

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 8 2020, 01:51 AM

Looks like Iran has responded. Praying everything will end now but this is where escalation begins.

This is why the USA can't go around assassinating enemy officials, because Iran weren't going to be cowed, they are a nation that will respond, and why so many of us were scared of such an unpredictable man in the White House, he's started a war and it's on him. Lives are on this man's head.

Posted by: Bré Jan 8 2020, 02:17 AM

Well this decade is off to a great start in the world isn't it...

Apparently there have been no US casualties (but a few Iraqi ones possibly?) and Iran has said they won't do more attacks unless the US respond, if sanity prevails this will be the end of this. That's a pretty huge if though.

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 8 2020, 05:48 AM

QUOTE(PeteFromLeeds @ Jan 7 2020, 06:29 PM) *
Chris/vidcapper etc., imagine you were in Iran right now and saw people arguing about your country and your lives right now how would you feel? These are real people we're talking about, just because they're not from the UK doesn't mean you can treat them any differently.

At this point I feel like if war did break out and Boris re-established conscription again then you would put your full support behind it and that scares me.


Why name *me*? I expressed my doubts over Trump's actions in Iran right here in this thread!

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 8 2020, 08:35 AM

Trump Tweeted "All is well" as regards casualties and he'll speak later this morning. Doesn't sound to be enraged really.

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 8 2020, 01:32 PM

There's been an aircrash over the night. Ukrainian flight from Tehran to Kiev, suffered a technical fault. 180 passengers dead. Because of the timing, there's a suspicion that it's related to these current events - and it would be a very unfortunate coincidence. My guess is that it was a terrible mistake on the part of some Iranian air defense system but that will have to be looked into now.

Johnson very quickly condemned the Iranian retaliation on the Iraqi base at PMQs today, fair enough but with sideeye that he was much quicker off the mark when it wasn't the US as the aggressor. Also seen some analysis which the hopeful part of me wants to agree with, that this response by the Iranians was muted enough precisely so they could save face but avoid committing an action that would absolutely demand retribution. Very terrible for the Iraqis caught in the crossfire though, the latest reports I saw were that those were the only casualties.

Posted by: Bré Jan 9 2020, 12:18 AM

Yeah it seems like the big if from my last post might have come through, Trump's response to this has been remarkably measured. If the Iranians are happy with just causing some property damage as retribution (it appears there were no deaths or injuries at all, not even the rumoured Iraqi ones) and aren't going to do any further attacks, basically taking a sort of moral high ground, then we might be getting away without sparking a huge war. At least until Trump inevitably does something incredibly stupid and escalatory again.

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 9 2020, 07:23 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 8 2020, 08:35 AM) *
Trump Tweeted "All is well" as regards casualties and he'll speak later this morning. Doesn't sound to be enraged really.


I notice that in PMQ's Corbyn never once spoke out against the Iranian regime - I guess he still hasn't twigged that his refusal to condemn repressive regimes & terrorists was yet another electoral millstone...

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 9 2020, 08:01 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 9 2020, 07:23 AM) *
I notice that in PMQ's Corbyn never once spoke out against the Iranian regime - I guess he still hasn't twigged that his refusal to condemn repressive regimes & terrorists was yet another electoral millstone...



No obviously not. Still he'll be gone soon.

Posted by: Steve201 Jan 10 2020, 08:19 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 5 2020, 08:46 AM) *
Surely if they kill any Americans he'd be right to hit back? I'd hit back very hard! Don't know about you. It'll be Iran escalating things now and the next move is theirs.


How on earth would that be Iran escalating it when the US did what they did?? blink.gif

Posted by: Steve201 Jan 10 2020, 08:26 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 09:54 AM) *
Trump didn't attack a country. He took out an evil man, a known terrorist who was threatening the safety of the US and it's assets and allies. End of. As they're saying on Sky now, they had a chance to kill him before but chose not to. Trump decided the time was right now.


w00t.gif your hilarious. Did you know who this guy was 2 weeks ago? And yet now your reciting shite you hear in the right wing British media because it suits your pro American views. Insufferable rolleyes.gif

Posted by: ChRiMbO LeG PiPe Jan 10 2020, 08:47 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 9 2020, 08:01 AM) *
No obviously not. Still he'll be gone soon.


Wrong! Check his record. He has condemned Iran's actions on mulitple occasions and did so again r.e their missile strike. Constant condemnation, especially in times of crisis, is hardly diplomatic, not that bojo the clown would know. And that is the difference between a statesman and a born to rule toff etonian clown.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jan 10 2020, 08:48 AM

Western Intelligence agencies now believe that Iran https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51055219 that killed 176 people.

Posted by: Steve201 Jan 10 2020, 08:58 AM

QUOTE(ChRiMbO LeG PiPe @ Jan 10 2020, 08:47 AM) *
Wrong! Check his record. He has condrmned Iran's actions on mulitple occasions and did so again r.e their missile strike. Constant condemnation, especially in times of crisis, is hardly diplonatic, not that bojo the clown would know. And that is the difference between a statesman and a born to rule toff etonian clown.


PMQs this week highlighted why I will miss JC once he leaves the front bench, he was one of the few people in the Commons and the media willing to be critical of the US actions.

Posted by: Steve201 Jan 10 2020, 08:59 AM

QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jan 10 2020, 08:48 AM) *
Western Intelligence agencies now believe that Iran https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51055219 that killed 176 people.


Did the plane come down around the same time as the attacks on the US bases in Iraq?

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 10 2020, 09:03 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jan 10 2020, 08:19 AM) *
How on earth would that be Iran escalating it when the US did what they did?? blink.gif


So the US acted totally unprovoked by any previous incidents? unsure.gif

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jan 10 2020, 09:09 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jan 10 2020, 08:59 AM) *
Did the plane come down around the same time as the attacks on the US bases in Iraq?


A few hours later. It's likely that their defence surface-to-air missiles were activated by mistake.. not great that it can't discern between a passenger jet and a hostile military jet.

Posted by: Steve201 Jan 10 2020, 08:10 PM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 10 2020, 09:03 AM) *
So the US acted totally unprovoked by any previous incidents? unsure.gif


What incidents would they be that they felt the need to assassinate a member of the Iranian inner circle?

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 11 2020, 05:43 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jan 10 2020, 08:10 PM) *
What incidents would they be that they felt the need to assassinate a member of the Iranian inner circle?


What am I, a member of the CIA? tongue.gif

Posted by: SausageDestroyer Jan 11 2020, 06:20 AM

Iran finally admitted they were the ones to shoot the plane down “unintentionally”.

The deaths might as well be on Trump’s hands. Without all this tension and calling to arms I believe it most likely wouldn’t have happened. Which proves that this whole situation is beyond stupid. It’s just a few people trying to compare dicks yet 176 people die and millions more suffer consequences of their reckless actions and incompetence. This goes for both Iran and USA.

Posted by: SausageDestroyer Jan 11 2020, 06:21 AM

Trigger ready children should stay away from politics.

Posted by: Bré Jan 11 2020, 08:21 AM

I'm shocked they admitted it! Then again there was some pretty hard to deny video footage.

It's hard to imagine they did it on purpose so it's very likely just a tragic accident caused by being on too high alert.

Posted by: *Tim Jan 11 2020, 08:57 AM

QUOTE(Bré @ Jan 11 2020, 09:21 AM) *
I'm shocked they admitted it! Then again there was some pretty hard to deny video footage.

Evidence never stopped other nations from denying involvement in accidents, so I'm glad they at least admitted it. Now we need justice for the ones that lost loved ones in a pointless accident

Posted by: Steve201 Jan 11 2020, 10:29 AM

It's no real surprise but good they admitted it. There was many people on board including Iranians so it was clearly a mistake but as the other poster said it wouldn't have happened but for the tensions created by we all know who.

Posted by: Steve201 Jan 11 2020, 10:29 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 11 2020, 05:43 AM) *
What am I, a member of the CIA? tongue.gif


So you don't know you just put faith in the US...

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jan 11 2020, 11:00 AM

Just heartbreaking. cry.gif

Still, at least it's comforting to know that they're upgrading their systems to prevent such "errors" occurring in the future. dry.gif

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 11 2020, 11:15 AM

Their deaths are on Trump's hands. Directly Iran's, and they share some responsibility, but it was Trump who sent everyone into this heightened state of readiness with an unnecessarily provocative act. And the worst thing is his administration knows they got away with assassination.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 11 2020, 02:09 PM

QUOTE(Iz~ @ Jan 11 2020, 11:15 AM) *
Their deaths are on Trump's hands. Directly Iran's, and they share some responsibility, but it was Trump who sent everyone into this heightened state of readiness with an unnecessarily provocative act. And the worst thing is his administration knows they got away with assassination.



I agree but I bet knowing what he does now he'd do exactly the same again and get rid of that evil terrorist.

Posted by: ChRiMbO LeG PiPe Jan 11 2020, 02:26 PM

Did you know who he was before the media started screaming, "the no.1 bad guy in the world is dead!!!"?

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 11 2020, 02:55 PM

QUOTE(ChRiMbO LeG PiPe @ Jan 11 2020, 02:26 PM) *
Did you know who he was before the media started screaming, "the no.1 bad guy in the world is dead!!!"?



Yes of course I did. smile.gif Did you?

Posted by: ChRiMbO LeG PiPe Jan 11 2020, 02:55 PM

Did you? You never mentioned him once...

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 11 2020, 02:57 PM

QUOTE(ChRiMbO LeG PiPe @ Jan 11 2020, 02:55 PM) *
Did you? You never mentioned him once...



I didn't need to. wink.gif

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jan 11 2020, 03:04 PM

It's not a surprise that Iran finally admitted their responsibility, the US and other western powers had irrefutable evidence and had given Iran a ladder to climb down in order to not further raise tensions. It is clear that the ratcheting up in tensions between the two states played a part in this tragedy, and we still have no good strategy coming to light, nor a reason for the assassination of Qasem Soleimani (Who lets not forget was part of the US-led coalition fighting against Islamic State), which seems to so far have strengthened the resolve and support of IS-backed militia and cement Soleimani as a martyr.

Posted by: Jüpiter👑 Jan 11 2020, 04:35 PM

Essentially anyone defending Trump is saying that the 500 innocent civilian deaths on the plane were worth it to kill Soleimani.

Posted by: Steve201 Jan 12 2020, 12:40 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 11 2020, 02:09 PM) *
I agree but I bet knowing what he does now he'd do exactly the same again and get rid of that evil terrorist.


Some would argue Trump is just as bad...is he a terrorist too?

Posted by: Steve201 Jan 12 2020, 12:41 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 11 2020, 02:55 PM) *
Yes of course I did. smile.gif Did you?


I'm sure you did....

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 12 2020, 05:49 AM

QUOTE(ChRiMbO LeG PiPe @ Jan 11 2020, 02:26 PM) *
Did you know who he was before the media started screaming, "the no.1 bad guy in the world is dead!!!"?


Did *anyone* here? I certainly didn't.

Posted by: SausageDestroyer Jan 12 2020, 08:17 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jan 12 2020, 03:40 AM) *
Some would argue Trump is just as bad...is he a terrorist too?

He matches the literal definition so go figure.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 12 2020, 08:47 AM

QUOTE(Jüpiter👑 @ Jan 11 2020, 04:35 PM) *
Essentially anyone defending Trump is saying that the 500 innocent civilian deaths on the plane were worth it to kill Soleimani.



It was a very unfortunate accident which probably wouldn't have happened had Trump not killed the general. There are always casualties of war though and before you say there's no war, America is at war with terrorism.

Posted by: vidcapper Jan 12 2020, 08:58 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 12 2020, 08:47 AM) *
It was a very unfortunate accident which probably wouldn't have happened had Trump not killed the general. There are always casualties of war though and before you say there's no war, America is at war with terrorism.


And the terrorists certainly claim to be at war with the West!

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jan 12 2020, 09:07 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 12 2020, 08:58 AM) *
And the terrorists certainly claim to be at war with the West!



Yes you're right Vid. They keep saying so!

Posted by: Steve201 Jan 12 2020, 10:44 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 12 2020, 05:49 AM) *
Did *anyone* here? I certainly didn't.


Exactly!

Posted by: Steve201 Jan 12 2020, 10:50 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 12 2020, 08:47 AM) *
It was a very unfortunate accident which probably wouldn't have happened had Trump not killed the general. There are always casualties of war though and before you say there's no war, America is at war with terrorism.


I would argue that the us and Britain are as bad and could be considered terrorists too.

Meaning of terrorism:


"referring to nations whose rule is based upon fear and oppression that reach similar to terrorism or such proportions". It may be referred to as Structural Terrorism defined broadly as terrorist acts carried out by governments in pursuit of political objectives, often as part of their foreign policy."

Posted by: Iz~ Jan 12 2020, 10:57 AM

QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 12 2020, 08:47 AM) *
It was a very unfortunate accident which probably wouldn't have happened had Trump not killed the general. There are always casualties of war though and before you say there's no war, America is at war with terrorism.


The War on Terror is a propaganda name. You can't have a war against something with no defined end. Americans are involved in military conflicts in the Middle East but they aren't helping them end. Wouldn't be profitable.

More pertinently, Iran is not a terrorist state. There aren't currently any terrorist state groups (depending on def of 'terrorist') holding land since the defeat of ISIL. Insurgents are frightening and certainly capable of inflicting harm, but they are rare.

There are protests and actually calls for the Iranian Supreme Leader to resign over this. Would be nice if he did, but I'm not holding my breath. Same goes for his American counterpart.

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