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BuzzJack Music Forum _ News and Politics _ Coronavirus Discussion
Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 24 2020, 05:25 PM
Please continue discussion on the Covid-19 global pandemic in here.
Recent updates:
- UK records highest daily increase in positive Covid-19 cases - 6,634
NHS Track and Trace app released in England and Wales
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 24 2020, 05:42 PM
From BBC News:
Students are being told not to go to pubs, parties or restaurants in a bid to stem a spate of coronavirus outbreaks at Scottish universities.
Hundreds of students have tested positive at campuses across the country, with many more self-isolating.
Universities have now pledged to make it "absolutely clear" to students that there must be no parties.
And they will not be allowed to socialise with anyone outside of their accommodation.
Students have also been warned that any breaches of the new rules "will not be tolerated".
The stricter guidelines were announced after opposition leaders accused First Minister Nicola Sturgeon of a "basic failure" to anticipate the problem and provide more testing on university campuses.
Posted by: Garden Snake Sep 24 2020, 05:47 PM
This advice and enforcement needs to be nationwide now.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 24 2020, 05:55 PM
QUOTE(Garden Snake @ Sep 24 2020, 06:47 PM)
This advice and enforcement needs to be nationwide now.
It's a bit Draconian though. If pubs are open students will feel very aggrieved that they are being told not to go and not visit a restaurant either. The supermarkets and off-licences will do a roaring trade in cheap vodka and cider then as they'll just drink together in their rooms.
DISCLAIMER. I'm not saying all students drink a lot or too much.
Posted by: Garden Snake Sep 24 2020, 06:06 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 24 2020, 06:55 PM)
It's a bit Draconian though. If pubs are open students will feel very aggrieved that they are being told not to go and not visit a restaurant either. The supermarkets and off-licences will do a roaring trade in cheap vodka and cider then as they'll just drink together in their rooms.
DISCLAIMER. I'm not saying all students drink a lot or too much.
Indeed. That disclaimer was needed. But it does seem like a lot of them (I am hoping not the majority or my faith in humanity will take another nose-dive from its already low levels) don't care one bit about Covid (or at least enough about it to stop the non socially distanced socialising) which is even worse.
They think because they don't see their older relatives for most of the year they are no risk to anyone but they have to go shops and places like that and every time they do so after partying at the weekend they are putting anyone else who uses the shop at risk too. There needs to some sort of advertisement poster put up in university areas highlighting this.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 24 2020, 06:17 PM
Did Scottish students start back before the English ones then? I think down here they only go back late Sept or early Oct. Thinking back to when we took my daughter back, last week in Sept I think it was.
Posted by: Garden Snake Sep 24 2020, 06:27 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 24 2020, 07:17 PM)
Did Scottish students start back before the English ones then? I think down here they only go back late Sept or early Oct. Thinking back to when we took my daughter back, last week in Sept I think it was.
I think I have heard before that they always do start a week earlier or so in Scotland.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 24 2020, 07:41 PM
Well this isn't good...
Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 24 2020, 07:49 PM
Not shocked halls have been a flash point. It's natural that everyone is gonna go ahead and mix in freshers.
Berlin hitting a big number of cases today, like the 5th highest daily total. We've taken off this week case wise and so far the state gov has been like "meh". We have some of the loosest restrictions in Germany and now have the highest 7day per capita running total. Very very very low infection rates in the over 70's though, the absolute majority of cases in the 20-49 bracket.
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 24 2020, 08:17 PM)
Did Scottish students start back before the English ones then? I think down here they only go back late Sept or early Oct. Thinking back to when we took my daughter back, last week in Sept I think it was.
Yes. All levels of Scottish Education begins earlier than the English equivalents. As a result there is a magic window in late June/early July when the Scottish schools are on holiday but the English ones aren't so we get cheap and English free holidays. Its f***ing glorious.
Universities in Scotland are back by mid-Sept. A couple of unis used to follow a more English timetable (looking at you St Andrews-on-thames) but they're all now in line with the rest of the nation.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 24 2020, 07:54 PM
[indent][/indent]
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Sep 24 2020, 08:41 PM)
Well this isn't good...
It's to be expected though. Same with the non-mask wearing. People generally, of all ages, hate being told what to do and how to live their lives and with relatively few fines dished out they know they can get away with it. They have busy lives too and I've read people say they have "No time to isolate or quarantine" themselves. They have work, school college, shopping to do, the school run, elderly to care for etc. They can't just drop everything and stay in for 2 weeks.
Posted by: Hadji Sep 24 2020, 09:45 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Sep 24 2020, 06:25 PM)
UK records highest daily increase in positive Covid-19 cases - 6,634
That’s a mistake. It’s the second highest actually, the first highest being 7,860 cases on 10th April
Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 24 2020, 10:11 PM
QUOTE(Hadji @ Sep 24 2020, 10:45 PM)
That’s a mistake. It’s the second highest actually, the first highest being 7,860 cases on 10th April
No. The previous high was 6,201 on 1 May https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases
Posted by: Garden Snake Sep 25 2020, 04:55 PM
QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Sep 24 2020, 08:49 PM)
Not shocked halls have been a flash point. It's natural that everyone is gonna go ahead and mix in freshers.
Natural but there is no excuse for them not following the guidelines. Students breaking social distancing guidelines should face disciplinary action from the universities. I am sure it is possible to be a student living in student accommodation and follow the social distancing guidelines outside your designated 'bubble'.
I didn't think universities should be back on campus anyway this year but distanced learning only as I could see it was a Covid disaster waiting to happen.
Posted by: Rooney Sep 25 2020, 05:18 PM
QUOTE(Garden Snake @ Sep 25 2020, 05:55 PM)
Natural but there is no excuse for them not following the guidelines. Students breaking social distancing guidelines should face disciplinary action from the universities. I am sure it is possible to be a student living in student accommodation and follow the social distancing guidelines outside your designated 'bubble'.
I didn't think universities should be back on campus anyway this year but distanced learning only as I could see it was a Covid disaster waiting to happen.
I mean, they're students. I can't really fault them as if I was in their position I would do the same. But obviously it's a huge problem as all these people mix, work in bars/resturaunts and cause the virus to spread. Clearly the ministers who said it would be a good idea for University students to go back to uni thinks everyone spends 10 hours a day reading classics, economics and law. They don't have clue what its like to be a student haha.
Posted by: Steve201 Sep 25 2020, 05:25 PM
QUOTE(Garden Snake @ Sep 25 2020, 05:55 PM)
Natural but there is no excuse for them not following the guidelines. Students breaking social distancing guidelines should face disciplinary action from the universities. I am sure it is possible to be a student living in student accommodation and follow the social distancing guidelines outside your designated 'bubble'.
I didn't think universities should be back on campus anyway this year but distanced learning only as I could see it was a Covid disaster waiting to happen.
That’s the thing most campus’ are doing on line learning for the first term at least so it begs the question why have the universities encouraged students to come to halls of residence at al? They argue they want students to have the full uni experience but really they are trying to make money of students from the accommodation they stay in then blame them if there’s clusters after that.
Posted by: Steve201 Sep 25 2020, 05:28 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 24 2020, 08:54 PM)
[indent][/indent]
It's to be expected though. Same with the non-mask wearing. People generally, of all ages, hate being told what to do and how to live their lives and with relatively few fines dished out they know they can get away with it. They have busy lives too and I've read people say they have "No time to isolate or quarantine" themselves. They have work, school college, shopping to do, the school run, elderly to care for etc. They can't just drop everything and stay in for 2 weeks.
Well of course people don’t like being told what to do and in normal times that’s fine but surely 6 months into this people understand sacrifices have to be made.
Posted by: T Boy Sep 25 2020, 08:45 PM
So with lower temperatures and strong winds today, even with coats on the kids were freezing in the classrooms today give that we must keep windows open as per the guidelines. I definitely caught a draft on my back. It’s September 25th, this surely isn’t going to be sustainable as Winter approaches.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 25 2020, 08:54 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Sep 25 2020, 09:45 PM)
So with lower temperatures and strong winds today, even with coats on the kids were freezing in the classrooms today give that we must keep windows open as per the guidelines. I definitely caught a draft on my back. It’s September 25th, this surely isn’t going to be sustainable as Winter approaches.
Not to mention the heating bills for the cost of heating the outside.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 25 2020, 09:01 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Sep 25 2020, 09:45 PM)
So with lower temperatures and strong winds today, even with coats on the kids were freezing in the classrooms today give that we must keep windows open as per the guidelines. I definitely caught a draft on my back. It’s September 25th, this surely isn’t going to be sustainable as Winter approaches.
Am sure there's a minimum legal temperature for schools. Isn't it around 21c, like in offices and other workplaces. Take a thermometer in and if it's lower you can refuse to work.
Posted by: Rooney Sep 25 2020, 09:06 PM
Mass outbreak in Manchester Met uni with at least 99 positive tests. Honestly, I hope to God some Ministers get sacked for this decision. Absolute braindead across all UK Governments to allow students to move in to shared accommodation. I feel for them of course as it's not the uni experience, but it's complete naievty to think massive parties won't happen (I know I would) unless you keep them as prisoners.
Posted by: T Boy Sep 25 2020, 09:07 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 25 2020, 10:01 PM)
Am sure there's a minimum legal temperature for schools. Isn't it around 21c, like in offices and other workplaces. Take a thermometer in and if it's lower you can refuse to work.
I don’t want to refuse to work, I just want things to be sensible.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 25 2020, 09:19 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Sep 25 2020, 10:07 PM)
I don’t want to refuse to work, I just want things to be sensible.
Well think of the poor shivering kids then....
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 25 2020, 09:21 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Sep 25 2020, 10:06 PM)
Mass outbreak in Manchester Met uni with at least 99 positive tests. Honestly, I hope to God some Ministers get sacked for this decision. Absolute braindead across all UK Governments to allow students to move in to shared accommodation. I feel for them of course as it's not the uni experience, but it's complete naievty to think massive parties won't happen (I know I would) unless you keep them as prisoners.
Some angry students on Sky News saying they won't be stopped from going home at the weekend as it's not a police state yet. They'll just pretend to go shopping then go for the bus or train. They risk losing their uni place though which I think is awful.
Posted by: Andrew. Sep 25 2020, 09:24 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Sep 25 2020, 10:07 PM)
I don’t want to refuse to work, I just want things to be sensible.
It’s been a problem here as well, even with a wooly jumper on I was freezing on Wednesday
Blazers are back next week so that should improve things.
Posted by: T Boy Sep 25 2020, 09:26 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 25 2020, 10:19 PM)
Well think of the poor shivering kids then....
Erm, I am?
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 25 2020, 09:41 PM
It is getting colder now. People who are usually out at work all day will maybe need heating on whilst they work at home! I read about a man having it on all day but the wife said she'd just put extra layers on and they were arguing.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 26 2020, 07:40 AM
From The Sun.
MINISTERS are working to save Christmas from coronavirus and are prepared to do "whatever it takes" to keep families together this year.
The Government is hoping to roll out three million coronavirus tests a day and have a vaccine available by December, according to The Telegraph.
But if these plans fail, there is a backup plan to help Brits enjoy the festive period.
It could be suggested that families isolate two weeks before Christmas to enable them to meet safely in groups larger than six.
But the Department for Health have said nothing can be guaranteed at this stage.
It was revealed on Friday that the UK is in debt by £2 trillion for the first time ever.
The Government has borrowed a whopping £173.7 billion between April and August.
With Christmas just three months away, testing sources have confirmed the Government's plans to help keep the nation's favourite time of year as 'normal' as it can be.
Another plan being considered was to close schools early to allow a two-week voluntary quarantine for families wanting to gather in larger groups.
With Christmas falling on a Friday this year, most schools will break up on Friday, December 18, meaning the end of term would have to be brought forward to December 11.
Government officials are even considering a two-week quarantine after Christmas, meaning a month-long Christmas break from December 11 to January 10.
Operation Moonshot aims to have ten million daily Covid tests to be dished out under new Government plans costing £100billion.
The entire population of the UK could be tested in a week under Downing Street’s ambitious Operation Moonshot programme.
Boris Johnson vowed to roll out new tests which can deliver results in just 15 minutes.
He said a negative result would give Brits a “freedom pass” — allowing people to mingle like they did before Covid.
But this morning Transport Secretary Grant Shapps admitted that the new tech wasn't ready yet.
He told Sky News: "This is technology that, to be perfectly blunt, requires further development - there isn't a certified test in the world that does this but there are people that are working on prototypes."
Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 26 2020, 09:27 AM
How do you isolate for two weeks before Christmas? Are the government suggesting everyone takes that two weeks off work?
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 26 2020, 09:49 AM
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Sep 26 2020, 10:27 AM)
How do you isolate for two weeks before Christmas? Are the government suggesting everyone takes that two weeks off work?
Something like that, yes. Everyone off and schools closed. Assume shops stay open though.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 26 2020, 12:28 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 26 2020, 10:49 AM)
Something like that, yes. Everyone off and schools closed. Assume shops stay open though.
So everyone off, apart from those key workers that you've already forgotten about.
Posted by: RabbitFurCoat Sep 26 2020, 01:20 PM
Having four weeks in quarantine for the sake one day, no thank you. I'd much rather have four weeks as close to normality as allowed and sack off Christmas day.
The 22:00 curfew is turning out to be appalling and has to be reviewed, ideally being completely abandoned. I was out last night and 10:00 it was busier than you ever see the city centre on a normal Friday or Saturday, people rolling out onto streets without the room to socially distance, huge queues to get on to packed public transport and for any shop still open. It seems like it's an idea that was implemented without the full effects of it being considered or realised.
My experience of pubs so far has felt largely positive and safe, until last night.
Posted by: Rooney Sep 26 2020, 01:44 PM
QUOTE(RabbitFurCoat @ Sep 26 2020, 02:20 PM)
Having four weeks in quarantine for the sake one day, no thank you. I'd much rather have four weeks as close to normality as allowed and sack off Christmas day.
The 22:00 curfew is turning out to be appalling and has to be reviewed, ideally being completely abandoned. I was out last night and 10:00 it was busier than you ever see the city centre on a normal Friday or Saturday, people rolling out onto streets without the room to socially distance, huge queues to get on to packed public transport and for any shop still open. It seems like it's an idea that was implemented without the full effects of it being considered or realised.
My experience of pubs so far has felt largely positive and safe, until last night.
Isn't the idea to detour people rather than to stop incidents like this anyway? I think it's always going to be a problem on a Friday/Saturday night and what can you do unless you close them completely. I think the 10.00 should be reviewed and rather than bolt out at 10.00, it should be staggered before leaving the venue at 10.30.
The problem we face as always and even during lockdown, those who wants to break the guidelines and have have covid fatigue will do so.
I also cba with Christmas quarantine for the sake of one day either. I can't see that being enforced, but I could see the government suggesting it as an idea for people. It's clear its gonna be a massive problem when it happens. Students back home, the whole family together in one house, visiting multiple people.. anyone with half a brain can see what's happening next.
Posted by: RabbitFurCoat Sep 26 2020, 01:56 PM
I think the other measures they've introduced have made them safer anyway, masks when not at the tables and for staff, one way systems, table service only. If they're actually all enforced then pubs are quite safe and whilst shutting them early to avoid people getting too pissed and not socially distancing is sound logic, it's replaced a situation where an amount of very pissed people aren't socially distancing with one where a substantially larger amount of quite pissed people aren't socially distancing, because they can't.
Posted by: Miss J00ps Sep 26 2020, 02:00 PM
I raised this on twitter earlier already but...
How the hell are whole student populations of halls meant to completely self-isolate when they have no way of getting food shopping in? Delivery slots are booked up well in advance and they won't know anyone they can ask to nip into tesco for them.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 26 2020, 03:27 PM
QUOTE(Miss J00ps @ Sep 26 2020, 03:00 PM)
I raised this on twitter earlier already but...
How the hell are whole student populations of halls meant to completely self-isolate when they have no way of getting food shopping in? Delivery slots are booked up well in advance and they won't know anyone they can ask to nip into tesco for them.
One girl was on the news saying she rang the office to say she had no food and someone was sent to her with an apple, orange and banana. Nothing else.
Posted by: *Tim Sep 26 2020, 06:01 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Sep 26 2020, 12:28 PM)
So everyone off, apart from those key workers that you've already forgotten about.
But at least they'll be applauded again!!!
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 26 2020, 06:05 PM
Apparently in late March, Sage wanted to, and still wants to in fact, put everyone over 45 in total isolation in their homes, no mixing or going out at all. None of them working and shopping done by under 45's. However Boris and the rest of the Cabinet decided against this and said it just wouldn't work and couldn't be enforced strictly enough and wouldn't be accepted by the public. They feared civil unrest in fact.
Posted by: dandy* Sep 26 2020, 06:17 PM
QUOTE(RabbitFurCoat @ Sep 26 2020, 02:20 PM)
Having four weeks in quarantine for the sake one day, no thank you. I'd much rather have four weeks as close to normality as allowed and sack off Christmas day.
The 22:00 curfew is turning out to be appalling and has to be reviewed, ideally being completely abandoned. I was out last night and 10:00 it was busier than you ever see the city centre on a normal Friday or Saturday, people rolling out onto streets without the room to socially distance, huge queues to get on to packed public transport and for any shop still open. It seems like it's an idea that was implemented without the full effects of it being considered or realised.
My experience of pubs so far has felt largely positive and safe, until last night.
Agree with this. Pubs and restaurants are not the problem, my experience of them has been really positive and everything has been very well organised. Yesterday there were loads of people on the streets at 10pm because they had all been thrown out at the same time, definitely worse than it has been.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 26 2020, 06:58 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 26 2020, 10:49 AM)
Something like that, yes. Everyone off and schools closed. Assume shops stay open though.
Don't you think children have missed more than enough school already?
Posted by: Garden Snake Sep 26 2020, 06:58 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Sep 25 2020, 10:06 PM)
Mass outbreak in Manchester Met uni with at least 99 positive tests. Honestly, I hope to God some Ministers get sacked for this decision. Absolute braindead across all UK Governments to allow students to move in to shared accommodation. I feel for them of course as it's not the uni experience, but it's complete naievty to think massive parties won't happen (I know I would) unless you keep them as prisoners.
Yes I suppose even for those students who initially don't want to break guidelines and do care about suppressing virus spread, the amount of peer pressure to attend parties by their peers who don't care so much about Covid must be massive.
Some students may end up having more severe symptoms and having to go to hospital at this rate. I hope all students realise as these outbreaks take place what the consequences of this all is and stop the parties and also the government realises that shared student accommodation is a disaster in these times.
Posted by: T Boy Sep 26 2020, 07:15 PM
It’s not really fair to blame any students for these outbreaks. Universities did not need students to return in person to carry on education. Unlike schools, lectures can easily be delivered online. Lots of young people moving across the country from many different places was always going to cause an outbreak, parties or no parties. The universities and landlords are more to blame for being desperate for all their money:
And I can sympathise with these students. They’re just doing what students have always done and it’s not their fault that this is where they are in life at the time of this pandemic. Misguided, yes. A bit selfish, I suppose so. But I think we all need to get off our high horses because this never happened to us, we have no idea what we’d have done.
Posted by: Klaus Sep 26 2020, 07:28 PM
I don’t think people take into account that students have also often moved halfway across the country to a city they’ve perhaps never been in before and amongst people they didn’t know existed two weeks ago, surrounded by zero family or friends
like its a massive change and they’re being told to essentially stay in their flat with 5 complete strangers they didn’t exactly choose to live with
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 26 2020, 07:31 PM
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Sep 26 2020, 07:58 PM)
Don't you think children have missed more than enough school already?
Yes I do and Unis shouldn't have gone back yet as most lectures are online which they could have done at home.
Posted by: dandy* Sep 26 2020, 07:37 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Sep 26 2020, 08:15 PM)
It’s not really fair to blame any students for these outbreaks. Universities did not need students to return in person to carry on education. Unlike schools, lectures can easily be delivered online. Lots of young people moving across the country from many different places was always going to cause an outbreak, parties or no parties. The universities and landlords are more to blame for being desperate for all their money:
And I can sympathise with these students. They’re just doing what students have always done and it’s not their fault that this is where they are in life at the time of this pandemic. Misguided, yes. A bit selfish, I suppose so. But I think we all need to get off our high horses because this never happened to us, we have no idea what we’d have done.
Absolutely. Plus tbh they were encouraged to go so that their money can feed into the local economies and then they're stuck in accommodation that they're paying a fortune for whilst they sit in their room and look at online lectures that they could have done from home. I'd be pretty annoyed if I was in that position.
Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 26 2020, 07:53 PM
Yeah I would be pure raging. I really sympathise with the students. I get that the aim was to try and give them close to a normal campus experience as possible but really the halls should have stayed shut this year with online lectures (And reduced fees accordingly that is underpinned by the gov). Unpopular decision maybe but given the environment we are operating in, the safest.
Posted by: JSG Sep 26 2020, 08:45 PM
I honestly don't have a clue what the government could do now. My biggest concern is that people just think this whole thing is a joke. That's all I see on facebook, which leads me to believe that quite a lot of people aren't following the new rules. I've also heard some people as they come into my work saying it's all a load of bull. I am a door Marshall quite a lot aside from the odd time when I'm in the iamspamspamamiand the amount of angry people that come in and start mouthing off at me because I have to tell them stuff is unreal. Still quite a few people coming in without masks as well 🤷🏻♂️
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 27 2020, 09:53 AM
From The Independant:
Students in Scotland may have had their human rights breached by strict new coronavirus restrictions banning them from going home and to the pub, the leader of the Scottish Labour Party has said.
Richard Leonard called for the measures, which were announced by Holyrood this week, to be investigated by the Scottish Human Rights Commission.
In a letter to the body, he asked it to examine seven areas of concern, including ambiguity in enforcement, visits to hospitality, the suitability of student halls for self-isolation, and differences between rules for students and the rest of the public.
Mr Leonard also raised the ban on students socialising outside their household, the requirement to download the Test and Protect tracing app, and a lack of acknowledgement that some students are just 17 years old.
In asking the public to make further sacrifices, the Scottish government also has a reciprocal duty to do what it can to protect against the virus,” he wrote. “This means ensuring that the same mistakes made at the start of the pandemic are not repeated.
Posted by: T Boy Sep 27 2020, 09:55 AM
Students should be raging. They’ve basically been conned into isolation. They didn’t have to attend uni in person and all of the UK governments should have foreseen this. That there’s talk of them not being allowed home for Christmas is absolutely disgusting.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 27 2020, 10:19 AM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Sep 27 2020, 10:55 AM)
Students should be raging. They’ve basically been conned into isolation. They didn’t have to attend uni in person and all of the UK governments should have foreseen this. That there’s talk of them not being allowed home for Christmas is absolutely disgusting.
Hundreds have gone home anyway despite being told they may lose their place. There was a mad rush of Scottish students booking trains home and many left Friday and yesterday with many more going today.
Posted by: Klaus Sep 27 2020, 10:30 AM
News moves so fast that I blindly forgot these are the SAME students almost screwed over by the grading system! Really feel for what they’re being forced to go through.
Posted by: blacksquare Sep 27 2020, 02:04 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Sep 27 2020, 10:55 AM)
Students should be raging. They’ve basically been conned into isolation. They didn’t have to attend uni in person and all of the UK governments should have foreseen this. That there’s talk of them not being allowed home for Christmas is absolutely disgusting.
This part is really important — landlords were prioritised, again. People can fool themselves into thinking universities and the government just wanted students to have as normal an experience as possible. They wanted students to spend money, pay their rent, and not be seen as charging 9k to study at home.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 27 2020, 03:43 PM
Panic buying really taking hold now as supermarket shelves are cleared of loo rolls, pasta, tinned tomatoes and baked beans and vegetables and hand sanitiser. Basically same as before. Stores are re-stocking all day, as fast as they can and not just at night time like before.
Posted by: Hadji Sep 27 2020, 04:05 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 27 2020, 04:43 PM)
Panic buying really taking hold now as supermarket shelves are cleared of loo rolls, pasta, tinned tomatoes and baked beans and vegetables and hand sanitiser. Basically same as before. Stores are re-stocking all day, as fast as they can and not just at night time like before.
I’m surprised they’re not stockpiling on vitamin D as it boosts your immune system
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 27 2020, 04:15 PM
QUOTE(Hadji @ Sep 27 2020, 05:05 PM)
I’m surprised they’re not stockpiling on vitamin D as it boosts your immune system
They probably are. I need multi-vitamins. I remember I couldn't get any last time, in March. Must look in Asda tomorrow.
Wife's been to Costco and it's so busy and they're limiting loo rolls to 2 big packs of 24 per person. Should be one really I reckon. No flour, yeast, canned soup or baked beans left at all. It's barmy.
Posted by: Rooney Sep 27 2020, 04:33 PM
QUOTE(Hadji @ Sep 27 2020, 05:05 PM)
I’m surprised they’re not stockpiling on vitamin D as it boosts your immune system
I's because people are sheep and also idiots. There is no need to panic buy.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 27 2020, 04:36 PM
Students virtually imprisoned in uni accomodation in Scotland with high security gates being erected now and police and security guards stopping them leaving. Tesco and Asda delivering food now, just seen on Sky News, as well as unsold sandwiches and wraps for them to eat tonight rather than waste them. Also takeaways. The ones who left early this weekend were lucky. One man turned up for his son and wasn't allowed to take him home or give him the food he'd brought or even see him. WTF. I'd be straight on to a solicitor if it was me. Unis aren't prisons and they've done nothing wrong.
Posted by: Steve201 Sep 27 2020, 04:41 PM
What’s the point in buying a load of loo roll?
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 27 2020, 04:47 PM
QUOTE(Steve201 @ Sep 27 2020, 05:41 PM)
What’s the point in buying a load of loo roll?
Well they think it'll be the first to run out and hard to wipe your bum on a leaf I suppose.
Posted by: *Tim Sep 27 2020, 04:50 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 27 2020, 04:15 PM)
They probably are. I need multi-vitamins. I remember I couldn't get any last time, in March. Must look in Asda tomorrow.
Wife's been to Costco and it's so busy and they're limiting loo rolls to 2 big packs of 24 per person. Should be one really I reckon. No flour, yeast, canned soup or baked beans left at all. It's barmy.
The UK truly is somethinf else
There's literally nothinf of the sort around here and both the Netherlands and Belgium are doing worse
Posted by: *Tim Sep 27 2020, 04:55 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 27 2020, 04:36 PM)
Students virtually imprisoned in uni accomodation in Scotland with high security gates being erected now and police and security guards stopping them leaving. Tesco and Asda delivering food now, just seen on Sky News, as well as unsold sandwiches and wraps for them to eat tonight rather than waste them. Also takeaways. The ones who left early this weekend were lucky. One man turned up for his son and wasn't allowed to take him home or give him the food he'd brought or even see him. WTF. I'd be straight on to a solicitor if it was me. Unis aren't prisons and they've done nothing wrong.
If this were to happen to me I would set everything on fire lmao. Unless there is a massive outbreak and quarantaine is needed to prevent it from spreading like an oil spill ofcourse. Human rights, what are those.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 27 2020, 04:55 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Sep 27 2020, 05:33 PM)
I's because people are sheep and also idiots. There is no need to panic buy.
The Sun has caused this by publishing old pics from March of empty shelves. It's reminded people and some would think they were pics from this week.
Posted by: Steve201 Sep 27 2020, 05:55 PM
First mistake was to read that horrible rag I guess
Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 27 2020, 05:59 PM
QUOTE(blacksquare @ Sep 27 2020, 03:04 PM)
This part is really important — landlords were prioritised, again. People can fool themselves into thinking universities and the government just wanted students to have as normal an experience as possible. They wanted students to spend money, pay their rent, and not be seen as charging 9k to study at home.
Indeed, the Covid-19 global pandemic and responses to it have exposed the creaking and utterly corrupt rentier economy that is the UK.
That is what guides most of the actions taken by this government: The rentier class. We were told/ordered in the summer to get back to the office to help spend in the economy and support those landowners who rent out the offices and city spaces that depend on this activity to survive, when many were able to quite easily work from home (some just as or even more productively) and actually help to revive the LOCAL economy. Now students have been farmed out to their debt slave dwellings where they've been locked down and given third-rate online tuition for the very reasonable price of £9K (ha ha ) that they could have easily done from home.
Landlords were even protected in the early part of the crisis by being given a 'mortgage holiday', one luxury that their paying tenants were presumably not given. Basically, I am very pissed off about all of this.
Posted by: Rooney Sep 27 2020, 08:12 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Sep 27 2020, 06:59 PM)
Indeed, the Covid-19 global pandemic and responses to it have exposed the creaking and utterly corrupt rentier economy that is the UK.
That is what guides most of the actions taken by this government: The rentier class. We were told/ordered in the summer to get back to the office to help spend in the economy and support those landowners who rent out the offices and city spaces that depend on this activity to survive, when many were able to quite easily work from home (some just as or even more productively) and actually help to revive the LOCAL economy. Now students have been farmed out to their debt slave dwellings where they've been locked down and given third-rate online tuition for the very reasonable price of £9K (ha ha ) that they could have easily done from home.
Landlords were even protected in the early part of the crisis by being given a 'mortgage holiday', one luxury that their paying tenants were presumably not given. Basically, I am very pissed off about all of this.
Really hard to disagree with this. There is so much wrong with private landlords, they really distorte the property market, especially the lower end. It's unlikely the prpoerty market will ever fall as too many people will lose rather than gain. It would have been nice for these properites to be returned to the market and have first time buyers the opportunity to purchase them.
Posted by: Garden Snake Sep 27 2020, 08:36 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54315320
This is really worrying. The rule of six is there for a reason and the chance that it and other vital restrictions may be repealed by Parliament is a victory for the don't care about Covid/anti-masker scum. And I don't use that word for people lightly but that's what they are.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 27 2020, 08:39 PM
QUOTE(Garden Snake @ Sep 27 2020, 09:36 PM)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54315320
This is really worrying. The rule of six is there for a reason and the chance that it may be repealed by Parliament is a victory for the don't care about Covid/anti-masker scum. And I don't use that word for people lightly but that's what they are.
You've got to admit the 10 p.m. curfew is completely redundant though, surely? It is if anything increasing the risk of spread by causing everyone to pile out at exactly the same time.
Posted by: T Boy Sep 27 2020, 08:43 PM
QUOTE(Garden Snake @ Sep 27 2020, 09:36 PM)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54315320
This is really worrying. The rule of six is there for a reason and the chance that it and other vital restrictions may be repealed by Parliament is a victory for the don't care about Covid/anti-masker scum. And I don't use that word for people lightly but that's what they are.
What is the reason for the rule of specifically 6 though? Why is it safer for a family of 4 to meet with their grandparents than a family of 5?
Posted by: Garden Snake Sep 27 2020, 08:44 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Sep 27 2020, 09:39 PM)
You've got to admit the 10 p.m. curfew is completely redundant though, surely? It is if anything increasing the risk of spread by causing everyone to pile out at exactly the same time.
Yes I admit that. However there shouldn't be 'everyone' anyway to come out of bars there should only be a few people in a bar at once.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 27 2020, 08:47 PM
QUOTE(Garden Snake @ Sep 27 2020, 09:36 PM)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54315320
This is really worrying. The rule of six is there for a reason and the chance that it and other vital restrictions may be repealed by Parliament is a victory for the don't care about Covid/anti-masker scum. And I don't use that word for people lightly but that's what they are.
I suspect the rule of six would stay. The point is that all these new laws are being introduced by decree. MPs, quite rightly, feel they should have a role to play. The thing that really went too far for me was the idea of introducing £10,000 fines without any scrutiny.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 27 2020, 08:49 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Sep 27 2020, 09:43 PM)
What is the reason for the rule of specifically 6 though? Why is it safer for a family of 4 to meet with their grandparents than a family of 5?
That's one reason why parliament should have a say. Get ministers to face the Commons and produce the evidence to persuade MPs to support it.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 27 2020, 09:08 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Sep 27 2020, 09:12 PM)
Really hard to disagree with this. There is so much wrong with private landlords, they really distorte the property market, especially the lower end. It's unlikely the prpoerty market will ever fall as too many people will lose rather than gain. It would have been nice for these properites to be returned to the market and have first time buyers the opportunity to purchase them.
Private landlords provide a vital service as there aren't enough council houses and flats to go round. There are good landlord and bad ones just like there are good and bad tenants.
Posted by: Garden Snake Sep 27 2020, 09:38 PM
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Sep 27 2020, 09:47 PM)
I suspect the rule of six would stay. The point is that all these new laws are being introduced by decree. MPs, quite rightly, feel they should have a role to play. The thing that really went too far for me was the idea of introducing £10,000 fines without any scrutiny.
Yes I agree with the fact MPs should debate and vote on these laws, it will give them more democratic legitimacy.
Posted by: Garden Snake Sep 27 2020, 09:41 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Sep 27 2020, 09:43 PM)
What is the reason for the rule of specifically 6 though? Why is it safer for a family of 4 to meet with their grandparents than a family of 5?
Well I admit there should be some extenuating circumstances that do not result in fines such as the example you gave.
Posted by: blacksquare Sep 27 2020, 10:32 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 27 2020, 10:08 PM)
Private landlords provide a vital service as there aren't enough council houses and flats to go round.
The irony is too much.
Posted by: Iz~ Sep 27 2020, 10:36 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 27 2020, 09:08 PM)
Private landlords provide a vital service as there aren't enough council houses and flats to go round. There are good landlord and bad ones just like there are good and bad tenants.
Hear me out, if the landlords did not own the houses, they would be available at more affordable prices for normal people to own rather than to siphon off large parts of their income every month.
Landlords provide the same vital service to the housing market that a blood-sucking mosquito does to your skin.
Posted by: Steve201 Sep 27 2020, 10:40 PM
It’s called parasitic capitalism
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 27 2020, 10:41 PM
:')
Posted by: dhweeb Sep 27 2020, 10:53 PM
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 27 2020, 10:58 PM
QUOTE(Iz~ @ Sep 27 2020, 11:36 PM)
Hear me out, if the landlords did not own the houses, they would be available at more affordable prices for normal people to own rather than to siphon off large parts of their income every month.
Yes but some normal people as you call them wouldn't ever get a mortgage to pay for any property. They're totally reliant on renting. Some choose to rent when they could perhaps buy. Not working or no stable work record, sick or disabled, no deposit, low income, no way can they get a loan. We couldn't until her employer kindly gave us a private mortgage at a very low interest rate.
Posted by: Rooney Sep 27 2020, 11:45 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 27 2020, 11:58 PM)
Yes but some normal people as you call them wouldn't ever get a mortgage to pay for any property. They're totally reliant on renting. Some choose to rent when they could perhaps buy. Not working or no stable work record, sick or disabled, no deposit, low income, no way can they get a loan. We couldn't until her employer kindly gave us a private mortgage at a very low interest rate.
But Chris, while some people choose to rent and especially in Western Europe I think this is more of a thing, we have a situation in lots of the UK where landlords buy up new build properites and exisiting properties because they have capital. How is it fair when the mortage might be £500 a month, and then it's rented out at £1000 a month to tenants. Not only that, the current system encourages people to then rent their own homes out if they are able to afford a second or third mortgage. Not everyone should havr the divine right to own a property, but there are lots of people who earn good salaries but can't afford to buy their own home as they live in an area with ridiculous prices vs their good salary.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 28 2020, 09:55 AM
Calls now for a total ban on all alcohol sales from shops and off-licences after 10pm. Some say it should be 9pm to stop drinkers leaving pubs and partying at home. Won't they just buy it earlier in the day though?
Posted by: Dobbo Sep 28 2020, 09:56 AM
The student situation really is shocking, they are literally being held prisoners. What should be being the best time of their life is turning into the worst AND they're paying a shitload for it. Disgusting treatment, no due care whatsoever for their wellbeing. It's hits harder home for me as I've experienced the thrill & joy of a proper first semester experience! They'll never get to re-experience it neither which is so disappointing.
Posted by: Dobbo Sep 28 2020, 09:58 AM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 28 2020, 10:55 AM)
Calls now for a total ban on all alcohol sales from shops and off-licences after 10pm. Some say it should be 9pm to stop drinkers leaving pubs and partying at home. Won't they just buy it earlier in the day though?
This 10PM cut-off nonsense is absolutely stupid. They've made the situation worse than it would be had they not stuck their oar in! Those scenes in Liverpool were 1000% predictable.
Posted by: Iz~ Sep 28 2020, 10:15 AM
The worst thing about the 10pm cutoff seems to be that it releases people in big groups together, which is absolutely not what you want. Like if it were a plan to mess stuff up without doing anything of note, that is what you'd do.
Closing off-licences at the same time would mitigate that a little as it'd do something to disperse the crowds - it doesn't matter if they buy it earlier in the day, what you'd want is for people to be going there throughout if they REALLY MUST get their binge on.
really f***ing feeling it for the students, I would not be happy that I'd be getting such little value for my money to be essentially imprisoned.
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 27 2020, 10:58 PM)
Yes but some normal people as you call them wouldn't ever get a mortgage to pay for any property. They're totally reliant on renting. Some choose to rent when they could perhaps buy. Not working or no stable work record, sick or disabled, no deposit, low income, no way can they get a loan. We couldn't until her employer kindly gave us a private mortgage at a very low interest rate.
Sounds like mortgages need to be another part of the system that's also overhauled so they can be more accessible then. If the price comes down because there aren't landlord sharks buying up property then so would the price of a mortgage anyway.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 28 2020, 10:49 AM
Eeek...
Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 28 2020, 10:57 AM
I'm not convinced that a curfew is a good idea at all although I'm prepared to be persuaded otherwise. What definitely doesn't seem to be working, as others have said, is having a blanket cut-off time applying to so many places. Making it so strict (i.e. no drinking-up time) just adds to the problem.
Once again, it is all too predictable. The government has been criticised in recent days for not having any behavioural scientists on the Sage committee, but it doesn't really need any great expertise to guess that closing a large number of places at the same time will lead to hundreds of people emerging from these places all at once. It's not rocket science; it isn't even advanced behavioural science.
It is very tempting to conclude that it is designed to be yet another way of blaming "the people" rather than the government when it all goes horribly wrong.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 28 2020, 10:57 AM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Sep 28 2020, 11:49 AM)
Eeek...
They've just announced that the bars WILL be closing at 10.
Posted by: *Tim Sep 28 2020, 11:02 AM
Belgium added a curfew to Antwerp a while back and that worked, but not as a standalone measure
Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 28 2020, 11:05 AM
Well it wasn't a tenable position really was it? The curfew thing is really odd, it's like you say almost a deliberately half-arsed attempt to take control of the spread of Covid-19 (it worked in Belgium apparently) so as to take the focus off the incompetence of the complete lack of a reliable track/trace/isolate system and instead blame the public.
Surely, mandating WFH much more strictly would be a far better way of reducing spread.
Posted by: Rooney Sep 28 2020, 11:12 AM
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Sep 28 2020, 11:57 AM)
I'm not convinced that a curfew is a good idea at all although I'm prepared to be persuaded otherwise. What definitely doesn't seem to be working, as others have said, is having a blanket cut-off time applying to so many places. Making it so strict (i.e. no drinking-up time) just adds to the problem.
Once again, it is all too predictable. The government has been criticised in recent days for not having any behavioural scientists on the Sage committee, but it doesn't really need any great expertise to guess that closing a large number of places at the same time will lead to hundreds of people emerging from these places all at once. It's not rocket science; it isn't even advanced behavioural science.
It is very tempting to conclude that it is designed to be yet another way of blaming "the people" rather than the government when it all goes horribly wrong.
There's an article running in the times that Sunak threatened to resign after some of the more drastic economic policies were drafted about. It suggests the 10pm curfew is a way of appeasing business owners, but it also gives the Government the chance to blame everything on the people. I think the policy is a good idea in practice, but it does suggest that it's just a temporary measure before some other measures.
Anyway for me, just reading some articles I was shocked that only 18% people self-isolate when given a positive test result. Isn't this really where we need to change behaviour? It doesn't matter what measures we have, if people aren't isolating when they have the virus then we're all going to fuked.
Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 28 2020, 05:23 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 28 2020, 11:55 AM)
Calls now for a total ban on all alcohol sales from shops and off-licences after 10pm. Some say it should be 9pm to stop drinkers leaving pubs and partying at home. Won't they just buy it earlier in the day though?
Took me a minute to remember that there are no restrictions on off-licence sales in England. Should have remembered given I lived there for 3 years. It was the nice counterbalance to the stupid Sunday shopping hours.
Alcohol sales are already limited to between 10am and 10pm in Scotland. Everyone just buys booze earlier. Or make a mad dash to the offie or Tesco at 9:50pm and sprints round the joint to get it through the till before 10pm. Has no impact on parties or anything.
Posted by: Garden Snake Sep 28 2020, 07:15 PM
QUOTE(Dobbo @ Sep 28 2020, 10:56 AM)
The student situation really is shocking, they are literally being held prisoners. What should be being the best time of their life is turning into the worst AND they're paying a shitload for it. Disgusting treatment, no due care whatsoever for their wellbeing. It's hits harder home for me as I've experienced the thrill & joy of a proper first semester experience! They'll never get to re-experience it neither which is so disappointing.
I do feel sorry for those students who have abided by the Covid rules only to find themselves in enforced quarantine anyway. Unfortunately quarantine is required in that situation, just like in that hotel in Tenerife at the start of the pandemic. The alternative is possible increased community spread within the town which could lead to deaths if someone in one of the vulnerable categories gets the virus.
Of course it would have been a lot better if it hadn't have been given the go-ahead for students to be in the halls where the virus could spread in the first place but instead could have studied at home using online resources. Its no substitute for in person learning and an issue is of course they have paid a lot for their course and wouldn't have received in person learning which is superior to online learning but its better than the current situation I think.
Posted by: Riser Sep 29 2020, 12:18 AM
Our alcohol curfew is 10pm but the bars are allowed to stay open until 11pm. I just assumed that was how most places were doing it. Gives people time to finish their last drink, I haven't been going to bars at all but would guess that's working better than what the UK's doing.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 29 2020, 08:26 AM
Now over a million deaths worldwide and 2 million possible, according to Sky News.
Posted by: J00psylicious Sep 29 2020, 10:58 AM
In other unbelievable news, days after forcibly imprisoning students with private security just on the offchance they come across an old person on their once weekly trip to the supermarket, given they were already banned from cafes, bars and pubs, news comes today that 'forcing' over 65s to themselves shield is akin to 'age-based apartheid'.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/sep/28/asking-over-65s-to-shield-is-age-based-apartheid-nhs-england-boss-says-covid
Am I living in crazy land right now?
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 29 2020, 03:04 PM
BORIS Johnson will give a rare joint coronavirus press conference tomorrow with Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance for the first time in weeks, as new infections have continued to soar.
The PM will deliver another update on the second wave now gripping Britain as fears grow over even stricter national measures to come.
He got himself tongue-tied today and in a right tizzy when trying to explain the new rules for the NE. Was very amusing as basically he hadn't a clue "6 inside, 6 outside, 6 here or 6 there" Was forced to apologise later and claimed he got a bit confused but to me he sounded like he hadn't a clue.
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 29 2020, 03:07 PM
another day of waking up early and go to work for a measly $150k
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 29 2020, 03:08 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 29 2020, 06:04 PM)
BORIS Johnson will give a rare joint coronavirus press conference tomorrow with Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance for the first time in weeks, as new infections have continued to soar.
The PM will deliver another update on the second wave now gripping Britain as fears grow over even stricter national measures to come.
He got himself tonue-tied today and in a right tizzy when trying to explain the new rules for the NE. Was very amusing as basically he hadn't a clue "6 inside, 6 outside, 66 here or there" LMAO. He is funny isn't he?
yes, people dying makes me laugh too
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 29 2020, 03:08 PM
QUOTE(ɥɔʇᴉq @ Sep 29 2020, 04:07 PM)
another day of waking up early and go to work for a measly $150k
Is that what you earn?
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 29 2020, 03:09 PM
QUOTE(ɥɔʇᴉq @ Sep 29 2020, 04:08 PM)
yes, people dying makes me laugh too
Have you heard it though? It's as if he was doing it on purpose but don't think he was. Maybe funny isn't the word. I meant his bumbling ways when speaking, not particularly what he said.
Posted by: ElectroBoy Sep 29 2020, 03:11 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 29 2020, 04:09 PM)
Have you heard it though? It's as if he was doing it on purpose but don't think he was. Maybe funny isn't the word.
Sounds like he was being his usual twattish self who hasn't got a clue how to run the country. Yet right wing morons lap him up as 'funny' and 'good humoured' as the country suffers from his sh!t plans and inability to actually to do anything effective
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 29 2020, 03:13 PM
QUOTE(ElectroBoy @ Sep 29 2020, 04:11 PM)
Sounds like he was being his usual twattish self who hasn't got a clue how to run the country. Yet right wing morons lap him up as 'funny' and 'good humoured' as the country suffers from his sh!t plans and inability to actually to do anything effective
He said the word 6 loads of times but not much else really. Sky News will no doubt keep playing it unless they're asked not to by No.10.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 29 2020, 03:22 PM
Johnson doesn't do details. He doesn't like to spend long (i.e. more than about two minutes) reading a briefing. Therefore, he makes an idiot of himself when he tries to speak about anything vaguely detailed. To put it another way, he isn't up to the job of Prime Minister.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 29 2020, 03:33 PM
Here he is folks.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-pm-branded-grossly-incompetent-for-muddling-gathering-rules-12085131
At least he knows it's SIX
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 29 2020, 03:44 PM
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Sep 29 2020, 06:22 PM)
Johnson doesn't do details. He doesn't like to spend long (i.e. more than about two minutes) reading a briefing. Therefore, he makes an idiot of himself when he tries to speak about anything vaguely detailed. To put it another way, he isn't up to the job of Prime Minister.
Give him a standup special on Netflix. Odds are he'll do a better job.
Posted by: blacksquare Sep 29 2020, 04:32 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 29 2020, 04:04 PM)
He got himself tongue-tied today and in a right tizzy when trying to explain the new rules for the NE. Was very amusing as basically he hadn't a clue "6 inside, 6 outside, 6 here or 6 there" Was forced to apologise later and claimed he got a bit confused but to me he sounded like he hadn't a clue.
I’m sure you would find it equally funny if it were Diane Abbott.
Posted by: Klaus Sep 29 2020, 04:40 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 29 2020, 04:09 PM)
Have you heard it though? It's as if he was doing it on purpose but don't think he was. Maybe funny isn't the word. I meant his bumbling ways when speaking, not particularly what he said.
And ‘his bumbling ways’ is exactly what any country needs from its leader at a time of a national crisis where clear communication is the only way out of it.
Honestly, I genuinely wonder hypothetically how many extra lives could be saved if we actually had a leader that could actually clearly communicate. It’s the backbone to it all.
Posted by: BrookeOlivia Sep 29 2020, 05:00 PM
7143 cases today and 71 deaths.
Posted by: Вuzzjack user Sep 29 2020, 05:13 PM
QUOTE(J00psylicious @ Sep 29 2020, 11:58 AM)
In other unbelievable news, days after forcibly imprisoning students with private security just on the offchance they come across an old person on their once weekly trip to the supermarket
Well it is a possibility it could spread in supermarkets, even with mask wearing the virus can spread through surfaces so better to not risk it.
Perhaps the students' human rights have been infringed by but vulnerable people still have the right to feel safe when food shopping in supermarkets, that is another human right.
A compromise might be certain supermarkets for the use of students near campuses and signage warning older and high risk groups shouldn't go there
Posted by: T Boy Sep 29 2020, 05:15 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 29 2020, 04:09 PM)
Have you heard it though? It's as if he was doing it on purpose but don't think he was. Maybe funny isn't the word. I meant his bumbling ways when speaking, not particularly what he said.
Now is not the time to be bumbling and playing the idiot.
Posted by: *Tim Sep 29 2020, 05:41 PM
QUOTE(Вuzzjack user @ Sep 29 2020, 05:13 PM)
Well it is a possibility it could spread in supermarkets, even with mask wearing the virus can spread through surfaces so better to not risk it.
Perhaps the students' human rights have been infringed by but vulnerable people still have the right to feel safe when food shopping in supermarkets, that is another human right.
A compromise might be certain supermarkets for the use of students near campuses and signage warning older and high risk groups shouldn't go there
It is also a possibility it could spread from a 40 year old to about 40 80-year olds. Are you planning on locking them inside as well? Are you yourself locked in side this entire time?
Posted by: Вuzzjack user Sep 29 2020, 05:51 PM
QUOTE(*Tim @ Sep 29 2020, 06:41 PM)
It is also a possibility it could spread from a 40 year old to about 40 80-year olds. Are you planning on locking them inside as well? Are you yourself locked in side this entire time?
Indeed it could spread in that way but with student halls we know that there are Covid outbreaks and where they are whereas with various 40 year olds across the country it harder to establish where the outbreaks are. Letting students out from a hall (where a significant number have tested positive) before the end of the quarantine period would be extremely irresponsible and putting the public's safety at risk in the surrounding area. As I said before its a similar situation to the Tenerife hotel that was quarantined in March.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54340184
On the subject of students this is a good idea. Of course testing every student for coronavirus before they returned home for Christmas or another break would arguably be a better idea rather than them having to self isolate.
Posted by: T Boy Sep 29 2020, 05:51 PM
And just like that, I’ll be in local lockdown within 48 hours. It will be too dangerous to see my parents but not too dangerous for me to spend all day in close proximity with hundreds of other families at work. So glad I got to see my family for my birthday over the last few days.
Posted by: J00psylicious Sep 29 2020, 07:29 PM
QUOTE(*Tim @ Sep 29 2020, 06:41 PM)
It is also a possibility it could spread from a 40 year old to about 40 80-year olds. Are you planning on locking them inside as well? Are you yourself locked in side this entire time?
That wouldn't involve shilling for the government's decisions so let's not think about how logically the two are exactly the same.
After all, everyone knows that 'young people' aren't really people and should be absolutely self-sacrificing to a fault while older folks shouldn't see their lives disrupted in any way shape or form.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 30 2020, 08:22 AM
Piers Morgan has laid in to Boris calling him a "bumbling fool" and "the captain of the titanic" on GMB today.
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 30 2020, 08:34 AM
where are the lies
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 30 2020, 03:12 PM
QUOTE(ɥɔʇᴉq @ Sep 30 2020, 09:34 AM)
where are the lies
What do you mean? What lies?
Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 30 2020, 03:35 PM
Boris to give news conference with Whitty and Vallance live at 5pm. Second national lockdown may not be far away now.
Posted by: Вuzzjack user Sep 30 2020, 05:23 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Sep 30 2020, 04:35 PM)
Second national lockdown may not be far away now.
Indeed, because a significant part of the population outside the at risk groups don't seem to care about preventing people dying from Covid and continue to do whatever they want that's where we are heading. It is depressing and I am ashamed to be in this part of the world where so many don't care.
Posted by: T Boy Sep 30 2020, 05:33 PM
QUOTE(Вuzzjack user @ Sep 30 2020, 06:23 PM)
Indeed, because a significant part of the population outside the at risk groups don't seem to care about preventing people dying from Covid and continue to do whatever they want that's where we are heading. It is depressing and I am ashamed to be in this part of the world where so many don't care.
It’s really unfair to state that people don’t care with absolutely no evidence. Yes, a minority may take that view but the fact is the rise in infections has mostly come from people doing what the government told them they were allowed to do. Pubs are open, eat out to help out, gyms are open, schools are back. These aren’t things that people just decided they were going to do because they don’t care. These are things people were assured it was safe to do. The government are now blaming the people and you’re falling for it hook, line and sinker.
Perhaps I’m bitter. In less than twenty four hours, I will be banned from seeing my family in doors. I live alone. I’m still expected to go into to work and come into close contact with up to 160 children a day and I don’t know where they’ve been. I am much more likely to catch this virus at school than from my family.
And can we even live this way forever? What if we don’t get a vaccine? If the government are going to blame the people then perhaps they need to return the responsibility to the people.
Posted by: Oliver Sep 30 2020, 05:44 PM
If we don’t get a vaccine I’d like to see someone try and stop me from going to my parents house...
Posted by: Klaus Sep 30 2020, 06:52 PM
I agree with T Boy. Lockdown when we had the first outbreak was vital and important. It was necessary to get on top of the virus at a point where we knew very little about it and didn’t have enough resources to deal with it and control. We’re now (or at least should be) in a much better position with increased testing capacity, PPE, public awareness, mechanisms in pubs, workplaces etc that weren’t there originally. It’s obviously not enough to keep it under safe control but we need to be looking at how we can live with the virus, knowing what we know now and having those increased resources. Our livelihoods in all areas would completely collapse with repeated full scale lockdowns. I don’t believe it can be the answer anymore unless things are extremely serious.
It’s completely hard to set out, and I appreciate anything like it is exploitable but there needs to be greater flexibility in terms of meeting others in households and introducing ideas of linked households. It feels so intense to only be able to see your household for an indefinite period of time. People should take responsibility in trying to limit their contacts where possible but it’s unfair to limit the contact completely.
Posted by: Вuzzjack user Sep 30 2020, 07:03 PM
QUOTE(Klaus @ Sep 30 2020, 07:52 PM)
It’s completely hard to set out, and I appreciate anything like it is exploitable but there needs to be greater flexibility in terms of meeting others in households and introducing ideas of linked households. It feels so intense to only be able to see your household for an indefinite period of time. People should take responsibility in trying to limit their contacts where possible but it’s unfair to limit the contact completely.
There is a big danger that greater flexibility and allowing more social contacts as you suggest there will just lead to a faster rise in cases though.
Posted by: Klaus Sep 30 2020, 07:21 PM
QUOTE(Вuzzjack user @ Sep 30 2020, 08:03 PM)
There is a big danger that greater flexibility and allowing more social contacts as you suggest there will just lead to a faster rise in cases though.
I didn’t necessarily say allowing more social contacts though. The local ‘lockdowns’ we’re seeing are just largely focused on ensuring people have ZERO social contacts. No friends, no family. That’s not proportionate this far down the line imo, especially with it being set indefinitely. It’s the only option being enforced as it’s the only option they can take without closing down businesses etc again but why should my personal life take such a huge toll where the viable alternative is I see people but I am careful as to who I’m seeing and ensuring I’m limiting this where possible. It’s not about opening myself up to the world but only seeing close friends and family in order to have that social interaction, take myself away from a screen and help my mental health. This is where clear communication should come into play.
At the moment, I’m working from home and haven’t set foot in the office since March. So whereas I’d be seeing different people on a daily basis, I’m only seeing those in my house. I’m also doing studies alongside my work so I will be spending a lot of my free time on that and again still at home. I’ve been careful since the outbreak as I have my grandparents who each live by themselves and are essentially verging into depression and loneliness - and I really don’t say that lightly at ALL. That’s probably the most honest and explicit I’ve been able to admit to myself because I’ve noticed a clear change in their mood and behaviours. I’m ensuring I’m being careful in my actions but I can’t stop my life altogether for who knows how long. It is just about taking proportionate steps, being aware of who you’re seeing and the implications of seeing other people afterwards. If I feel I’ve increased my potential exposure, I’ll limit further who I’m seeing. If I’m being conscious of those steps, why should I be blocked and FINED for seeing other people?
It’s a dangerous virus and we need to ensure we’re doing everything we can to limit the damages. But there’s also so much more dangers that are exposed and get out of control if we don’t pay attention to them.
It’s an extremely tough balance to approach and I don’t know the right answer but it’s dangerous to keep life on pause for such a long period of time. It has extreme implications.
Posted by: Вuzzjack user Sep 30 2020, 07:32 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Sep 30 2020, 06:33 PM)
It’s really unfair to state that people don’t care with absolutely no evidence. Yes, a minority may take that view but the fact is the rise in infections has mostly come from people doing what the government told them they were allowed to do. Pubs are open, eat out to help out, gyms are open, schools are back. These aren’t things that people just decided they were going to do because they don’t care. These are things people were assured it was safe to do. The government are now blaming the people and you’re falling for it hook, line and sinker.
Perhaps I’m bitter. In less than twenty four hours, I will be banned from seeing my family in doors. I live alone. I’m still expected to go into to work and come into close contact with up to 160 children a day and I don’t know where they’ve been. I am much more likely to catch this virus at school than from my family.
And can we even live this way forever? What if we don’t get a vaccine? If the government are going to blame the people then perhaps they need to return the responsibility to the people.
Yes maybe you are right about that. I remember reading anecdotal evidence on here from a few thread contributors that a lot of people in their area weren't following the guidelines and the media shows cases like that but paying attention to the media stories too much sometimes makes it seem like more people aren't following the guidance than there really are.
I am sorry to read of your situation, I am hoping we have relatively dry weather this autumn so that people have good opportunities to meet their family and friends outdoors where it is safer.
Posted by: J00psylicious Sep 30 2020, 08:11 PM
Agreeing w/ T Boy & Klaus. Rules need to be realistic or people will rebel harder than they would if there was a little leeway built in. And tightening only punishes those who have been compliant thus far.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 1 2020, 09:33 AM
QUOTE(J00psylicious @ Sep 30 2020, 09:11 PM)
Agreeing w/ T Boy & Klaus. Rules need to be realistic or people will rebel harder than they would if there was a little leeway built in. And tightening only punishes those who have been compliant thus far.
But what's the point in the rules when Jeremey Corbyn has a dinner party with 9 people and Stanley Johnson goes shopping with no mask? Quite simply it just feeds the narratoive that the elite do as they please whilst us plebs suffer.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 1 2020, 03:35 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 1 2020, 10:33 AM)
But what's the point in the rules when Jeremey Corbyn has a dinner party with 9 people and Stanley Johnson goes shopping with no mask? Quite simply it just feeds the narratoive that the elite do as they please whilst us plebs suffer.
Stanley has apologised and says he was away three weeks and didn't know about the rule to wear masks in shops. Hardly anyone I see wears them in small shops even if lots do in supermarkets.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 1 2020, 04:01 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 1 2020, 04:35 PM)
Stanley has apologised and says he was away three weeks and didn't know about the rule to wear masks in shops. Hardly anyone I see wears them in small shops even id lots do in supermarkets.
That's a pathetic excuse. The rule on wearing masks in shops has been in place for longer than three weeks.
Interesting that he has had another trip abroad so soon after an earlier rule-bending trip to Greece. I wonder where he went this time and whether he should have been in quarantine.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 1 2020, 05:39 PM
Seems they're all at it.
From ITV News.
"SNP MP Margaret Ferrier has apologised after she travelled between London and Scotland on a train twice while having Covid-19.
In a statement, Ms Ferrier said: "I apologise unreservedly for breaching Covid-19 restrictions by travelling this week when I shouldn't have. There is no excuse for my actions."
SO WHY DID YOU DO IT THEN.
She should be fined as well as Corbyn and Johnson, who btw is rumoured to have been to Greece again where masks in shops aren't compulsory. Cummings started this. The MP's must think, like the public, that if it's okay for him...
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 1 2020, 05:45 PM
Apparently it's fine if you say you forgot your mask, a genuine mistake, rather than argue and say you don't want to wear one. Heard a woman on Virgin radio say she'd to post a package just before the PO shut and had left it in the car.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 1 2020, 06:51 PM
Oh go do one Chris you’re not holding Cummings to this standard.
The SNP have withdrawn the whip and she has referred herself to the cops and the parliamentary standards committee. Quick and decisive action
Posted by: Klaus Oct 1 2020, 07:23 PM
Completely inexcusable behaviour, I don’t understand how that can even happen. Completely frustrating as well...
Posted by: Rooney Oct 1 2020, 07:44 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 1 2020, 06:39 PM)
Seems they're all at it.
From ITV News.
"SNP MP Margaret Ferrier has apologised after she travelled between London and Scotland on a train twice while having Covid-19.
In a statement, Ms Ferrier said: "I apologise unreservedly for breaching Covid-19 restrictions by travelling this week when I shouldn't have. There is no excuse for my actions."
SO WHY DID YOU DO IT THEN.
She should be fined as well as Corbyn and Johnson, who btw is rumoured to have been to Greece again where masks in shops aren't compulsory. Cummings started this. The MP's must think, like the public, that if it's okay for him...
She shouldn't be fined, she should be sacked, as I suspect she will be. She should be sacked for being dumb enough to do this in the first place as a politician. This just shows the problem though and why we are always going to be fuked unless we are more aggressive with people with positive test results. Rather than shutting down our economy, the Government should be paying people to self isolate accordingly.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 1 2020, 07:47 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 1 2020, 08:44 PM)
She shouldn't be fined, she should be sacked, as I suspect she will be. She should be sacked for being dumb enough to do this in the first place as a politician. This just shows the problem though and why we are always going to be fuked unless we are more aggressive with people with positive test results. Rather than shutting down our economy, the Government should be paying people to self isolate accordingly.
How much would you suggest they pay them then to isolate for a fortnight?
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 1 2020, 09:18 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 1 2020, 06:39 PM)
Seems they're all at it.
From ITV News.
"SNP MP Margaret Ferrier has apologised after she travelled between London and Scotland on a train twice while having Covid-19.
In a statement, Ms Ferrier said: "I apologise unreservedly for breaching Covid-19 restrictions by travelling this week when I shouldn't have. There is no excuse for my actions."
SO WHY DID YOU DO IT THEN.
She should be fined as well as Corbyn and Johnson, who btw is rumoured to have been to Greece again where masks in shops aren't compulsory. Cummings started this. The MP's must think, like the public, that if it's okay for him...
This raises a point I've wondered about for a while.
She received the positive test result when she was in London. As an MP, she presumably had a London home so she could have stayed there for two weeks. Most people who receive a positive test result some way from home cannot do that. If they rely on public transport, what are they supposed to do?
Any sign of Robert Jenrick - who buggered off to a home that was neither his London home nor his constituency home and then visited his parents in yet another part of the country - resigning yet?
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 1 2020, 09:27 PM
Politicians of all stripes have been unforgivably lax with the rules but it all stems from the very top of the tree. Cummings should have been sacked. The minute he wasn't, it undermined every single thing the government has done. Poor enforcement in their own ranks sends out a horrific message to the people. A lack of clarity and a lack of communication with the public leads to non-compliance.
She shouldn't have got on the train, but the Gov refused to continue remote sessions and refuses to allow corona as a reason for proxy voting. The gov has put pressure onto all MPs to be in london. Without that environment i don't think she would have got on that train but that's just my personal view. As is the fact that she should agree to step down as an MP at an appropriate time that a by-election can be held. As were not in a position to hold one now, her constituents should not be unrepresented and supported during this time so it is right for her to continue in role, sans whip, until we are in a position to be able to go to the polls.
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 1 2020, 09:44 PM)
She shouldn't be fined, she should be sacked, as I suspect she will be.
She's an elected MP, not sure she can be sacked? The SNP have already withdrawn the whip but my understanding was she would need to resign or be subject to a recall election in order to be given the boot.
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 1 2020, 11:18 PM)
This raises a point I've wondered about for a while.
She received the positive test result when she was in London. As an MP, she presumably had a London home so she could have stayed there for two weeks. Most people who receive a positive test result some way from home cannot do that. If they rely on public transport, what are they supposed to do?
Any sign of Robert Jenrick - who buggered off to a home that was neither his London home nor his constituency home and then visited his parents in yet another part of the country - resigning yet?
Lot of press very suddenly for this, yet Jenrick and Cummings both get zero mentions???
Good point, while she shouldn't have made the journey at all I hadn't thought of that particular issue. Most wouldn't be able to afford to pay to self isolate for 14 days in the event of a positive test outwith their primary residence
Posted by: Andrew. Oct 1 2020, 09:33 PM
Yeah there's no defending this, it's even worse than what Cummings did. (Although no doubt some Tories who were A-OK with Cummings will be all high and mighty about this)
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 1 2020, 09:57 PM
Looking forward to Margaret Ferrier's press conference on Prime Time BBC 1.
Also: Silas' favourite MP:
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 2 2020, 05:04 AM
Maybe something good will come from this virus after all
Posted by: Iz~ Oct 2 2020, 05:10 AM
I sure do hope he wasn't around any rich oligarch lobbyist donors lately.
honestly surprised it took this long for him to get it.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 2 2020, 05:12 AM
Hope he's injecting himself with disinfectant as we speak.
Posted by: Iz~ Oct 2 2020, 05:16 AM
Chris' reaction live from the scene:
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Oct 2 2020, 07:57 AM
The tweet isn’t showing up for me but if it’s not North Korean dramatic funeral wailing I’m not interested x
Posted by: RabbitFurCoat Oct 2 2020, 08:01 AM
QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Oct 2 2020, 06:04 AM)
Maybe something good will come from this virus after all
The worst thing will be that it's genuine and he only suffers very mild symptoms, which will strengthen his brigade of followers screaming it's all a hoax.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 2 2020, 05:23 PM
So even though I’ve just gone into local lockdown, I can now form a bubble with my parents because I live alone. So basically I’m not locked down anymore.
Posted by: Brett-Butler Oct 2 2020, 05:37 PM
Northern Ireland had its highest number of cases today at 921. Not since March, highest since the outbreak began. Really hope we don't enter lockdown again, but it is becoming increasingly likely.
Posted by: Oliver Oct 2 2020, 06:46 PM
770 students at my university have got coronavirus.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 2 2020, 06:48 PM
QUOTE(Oliver @ Oct 2 2020, 07:46 PM)
770 students at my university have got coronavirus.
Yeah I saw that, Lewis Goodall tweeted about it earlier - Northumbria University with 78 symptomatic cases.
Also:
Trump the SUPER SPREADER or is it GAMMON SLAYER?!?
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 2 2020, 07:42 PM
QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Oct 2 2020, 07:37 PM)
Northern Ireland had its highest number of cases today at 921. Not since March, highest since the outbreak began. Really hope we don't enter lockdown again, but it is becoming increasingly likely.
Likewise the City of Berlin with 339. it’s been a grim three weeks here
Posted by: HausofGhibli Oct 2 2020, 07:52 PM
I have heard via ~the grapevine~ that police are being prepped for a lockdown on the 18th October which would align with earlier rumours of a national lockdown on this date and a two-week half term for the kids. This would be an ideal time to do it as it would only mean one week of school being missed by the kids and thus parents only needed to accomodate younger children for only one week outside of the usual half-term. No confirmation of this, just what I have been told.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 2 2020, 08:02 PM
QUOTE(HausofGhibli @ Oct 2 2020, 08:52 PM)
I have heard via ~the grapevine~ that police are being prepped for a lockdown on the 18th October which would align with earlier rumours of a national lockdown on this date and a two-week half term for the kids. This would be an ideal time to do it as it would only mean one week of school being missed by the kids and thus parents only needed to accomodate younger children for only one week outside of the usual half-term. No confirmation of this, just what I have been told.
I honestly think they’re currently stalling for time for exactly this.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 2 2020, 09:28 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 2 2020, 07:48 PM)
Yeah I saw that, Lewis Goodall tweeted about it earlier - Northumbria University with 78 symptomatic cases.
Also:
Trump the SUPER SPREADER or is it GAMMON SLAYER?!?
This is ridiculous with universities. Hate to say it, but what a shite idea. This will be the same up and down the country.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 2 2020, 09:29 PM
Donald Trump has been taken to hospital, likely as a precaution but as much I don't like the guy this is worrying news.
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 3 2020, 08:26 PM
12.8k cases today
Posted by: Klaus Oct 3 2020, 08:32 PM
Apparently due to a technical issue meaning the figures between 24 September - 1 October were undercounted.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 3 2020, 08:35 PM
I seriously can’t keep up with the headlines, it’s all really depressing
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 3 2020, 10:28 PM
A "technical issue" indeed. The UK now so shit, that it struggles to count.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 4 2020, 01:49 AM
So do people stlll just go to work as normal with this many new cases it seems worse than March and yet they expect us to act like normal ffs
Posted by: T Boy Oct 4 2020, 08:54 AM
QUOTE(Steve201 @ Oct 4 2020, 02:49 AM)
So do people stlll just go to work as normal with this many new cases it seems worse than March and yet they expect us to act like normal ffs
But the economy! Seriously school was so cold on Friday, everyone wandering around in coats all day with windows wide open because the guidelines say we need ventilation. If only they’d spend the money on school buildings they do on other work places.
I definitely think they’ve got the 2 week full lockdown in mind but they’re stalling so that it won’t affect schools as much.
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 4 2020, 08:38 PM
23k cases today
Posted by: T Boy Oct 4 2020, 08:43 PM
Surely that’s not right? What an Earth is going on?
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 4 2020, 08:45 PM
QUOTE(Brightest Blue @ Oct 4 2020, 10:38 PM)
23k cases today
Ummmmmmmmmm what the f***ing hell
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 4 2020, 08:46 PM
Confirmed by Sky News
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 4 2020, 08:57 PM
QUOTE(Brightest Blue @ Oct 4 2020, 09:38 PM)
23k cases today
How does Johnson think his hope of "back to normal by Christmas" is going?
Whatever happened to his prediction that the tide would turn within twelve weeks - a prediction made in March?
Does he think we have lived up to his prediction that we would "send Coronavirus packing"?
Posted by: Klaus Oct 4 2020, 09:01 PM
It includes more of the ‘technical issues’ back data again, apparently today’s total is just over 7,000.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 4 2020, 09:04 PM
QUOTE(Klaus @ Oct 4 2020, 10:01 PM)
It includes more of the ‘technical issues’ back data again, apparently today’s total is just over 7,000.
Allegedly 15k from the last two days were from beforehand with computer glitches bring the reason they weren’t counted.
So if today was really 7k then yesterday must have been 13k.
I can’t make sense of any of it and we clearly can’t trust government figures.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 4 2020, 09:05 PM
How has test and trace broken down in England to that extent?
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 4 2020, 09:06 PM
QUOTE(Klaus @ Oct 4 2020, 10:01 PM)
It includes more of the ‘technical issues’ back data again, apparently today’s total is just over 7,000.
Even so, an extra 16k throughout the week is concerning.
When are the kids off school? As I can imagine we’ll enter lockdown that week.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 4 2020, 09:10 PM
QUOTE(Brightest Blue @ Oct 4 2020, 10:06 PM)
Even so, an extra 16k throughout the week is concerning.
When are the kids off school? As I can imagine we’ll enter lockdown that week.
We currently have 3 weeks left until half term.
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 4 2020, 09:12 PM
Omg, can’t imagine we’ll be able to wait that long?
Posted by: Klaus Oct 4 2020, 09:21 PM
QUOTE(Klaus @ Oct 4 2020, 10:01 PM)
It includes more of the ‘technical issues’ back data again, apparently today’s total is just over 7,000.
Ahh sorry, it is apparently around 10-11,000!
There are reports still though that it’s levelling out! Hopefully we can see it reflected in the figures over the next week.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 4 2020, 09:25 PM
There were studies showing that R has already fallen back to 1.1 so I expect that we'll be back under <10K / day next week.
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 4 2020, 09:28 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 4 2020, 10:25 PM)
There were studies showing that R has already fallen back to 1.1 so I expect that we'll be back under <10K / day next week.
I’m seeing that this is 1.6?
Gov.uk
QUOTE
Latest R number and growth rate
Last updated on Friday 2 October 2020.
Latest R number range for the UK
1.3-1.6
Latest growth rate range for the UK
+5% to +9%
per day
Posted by: Rooney Oct 4 2020, 09:37 PM
QUOTE(Brightest Blue @ Oct 4 2020, 10:28 PM)
I’m seeing that this is 1.6?
Gov.uk
I don't know, the reporting is all over the place at the moment but lots of people seem to confident the community transmission isn't that bad.
Are these figures including the mass testing Universities are conducting on campus? Most universities have their own on-site testing centre now..
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 4 2020, 09:38 PM
But with the week+ delays on test results flowing through the system, who can say with any confidence what the R0 actually is?
Germany added NI, Wales & Scotland to its red list along with NE, NW and Yorkshire & The Humber. Gibraltar has been on the list for ages. Not ideal. My folks are coming out for a visit in a few weeks time and its unlikely that Scotland is going to fall back enough to come off the list by then (realistically). Thankfully Germany are airport testing so they'll get a free corona test when they land at the shiny nine years old BRAND NEW Berlin Airport and then they'll quarantine at my place until they get the test result back. They don't take long so it won't be too bad and I've got a big enough flat that we will be comfortable for the day or two we need to quarantine for.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 4 2020, 09:43 PM
I was referring to this study: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54366478
QUOTE
The latest analysis, of swab samples collected between 19 and 26 September, suggests the R number has fallen to about 1.1 - although the precise figure is uncertain.
Got to say though, the release of this data on daily positive tests has been utterly shambolic. Why no detail beyond "technical difficulties".... ?
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 4 2020, 10:19 PM
Here are the corrected figures for the past few days:
This is like the Official Charts Company and Mariah Carey being stuck at number 2 in the post-Christmas chart of 2018 all over again.
Posted by: J00psylicious Oct 4 2020, 10:50 PM
News today that Tory voting regions are being spared local lockdown despite having higher case numbers than areas that are currently locked down.
Via https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-coronavirus-lockdown-for-top-tory-constituencies-rqtkhxm8s
QUOTE
Leaked emails reveal that wealthier seats and new blue strongholds are being spared the harshest restrictions
Wealthy areas, including the chancellor Rishi Sunak’s parliamentary seat, are avoiding lockdown despite having higher Covid-19 rates than poorer areas that are subject to restrictions, according to leaked emails between health officials.
The government is under growing pressure to explain why it has placed large parts of the north and Midlands under local lockdowns while overlooking areas with similar infection rates. Asked why the northwest is “treated differently” from areas such as his own seat of Uxbridge and South Ruislip in west London, Boris Johnson said on Friday: “I appreciate ... people want to see an iron consistency applied across the whole country.”
Matt Hancock, the health secretary, decides which areas to place in lockdown during weekly “gold” meetings with advisers. Yesterday, 50 councils were subject to measures such as bans on household mixing. However, there is no official Covid-19 infection rate that triggers a local lockdown.
On Thursday, Professor Dominic Harrison, the director of public health for Blackburn with Darwen, the largest borough in the wider Lancashire area, wrote to Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) officials, saying the measures were “avoidably increasing economic inequality”. He said: “There is now a different level of central control applied across local authorities, with some of the more economically challenged boroughs being placed into more restrictive control measures at an earlier point in their ... case rate trajectory.
“This has the effect of exacerbating the economic inequality impacts of the virus in those areas. We urgently need consistency in the national strategy if the control system itself is not to add to inequality, giving an economic ‘double whammy’ to more challenged areas.”
His comments come amid a row between ministers and mayors over lockdown policy. Andy Preston, the Middlesbrough mayor, last week said he did “not accept” the latest measures and said local leaders could effectively “preserve jobs and wellbeing”. He has since U-turned.
Blackburn with Darwen is one of Britain’s poorest boroughs. Its Covid rate peaked at 212 weekly cases per 100,000 people. When officials first imposed lockdowns in the area in August, they intervened in wards where the weekly rate exceeded 60 new cases per 100,000. A similar benchmark has been used elsewhere.
However, Harrison produced figures last week to suggest that wealthier areas with similar or higher rates were avoiding lockdown. Richmondshire in North Yorkshire, which includes Sunak’s constituency and is one of the least deprived areas in Britain, has 73 new cases for every 100,000 people. Newark and Sherwood, represented by Robert Jenrick, the housing secretary, and Mark Spencer, the chief whip, stands at 84. Both areas have avoided lockdown.
In contrast, Wolverhampton, another poorer area, has 56 cases per 100,000 yet remains in lockdown. Chorley, at 72, Lancaster, at 66, and Oadby and Wigston, at 63, are also subject to lockdowns.
Several “red wall” seats that voted Tory at the last election have avoided lockdown, including Barrow-in-Furness (112) , Darlington (110) and Wakefield (73). Of all areas where infections exceed 70 but lockdown has been avoided, the majority are represented by Tory MPs.
Steve Reed, shadow housing secretary, said: “People living in the north and Midlands will be asking why they’re having to face restrictions when other parts of the country that have seen infections rise are not.” The DHSC said the incidence rate was only one criterion considered in deciding on lockdowns.
NO LOCKDOWN
Sheffield 110 cases per 100,000
Barrow-in-Furness 112
Darlington 110
Craven 109
Newark and Sherwood 84
IN LOCKDOWN
Chorley 73 cases per 100,000
Wyre 71
Lancaster 66
Oadby and Wigston 63
Wolverhampton 56
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 5 2020, 06:55 AM
A thread explainer on the testing technical issues from the MEN’s Jennifer Williams
Posted by: Rooney Oct 5 2020, 08:23 AM
So has anyone got the NHS app and had the 'potentinal covid exposure' notification? Does anyone know how long it roughly takes for this to be verified and tell you whether to self-isolate?
Posted by: Brett-Butler Oct 5 2020, 08:34 AM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 5 2020, 09:23 AM)
So has anyone got the NHS app and had the 'potentinal covid exposure' notification? Does anyone know how long it roughly takes for this to be verified and tell you whether to self-isolate?
I know with the Northern Irish app there were two different notifications of this type, one where you don’t need to isolate and one where you do, so it might be worth checking to see what the app website says in relation to this.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 5 2020, 09:31 AM
QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Oct 5 2020, 09:34 AM)
I know with the Northern Irish app there were two different notifications of this type, one where you don’t need to isolate and one where you do, so it might be worth checking to see what the app website says in relation to this.
There's nothing in the app and the guidance says that specific push notification is from Apple notifying that someone within Bluetooth range has tested positive. Apparently if you have to isolate its then built in to the app. The app shows nothing so far. It's all a bit confusing really.
Posted by: dhweeb Oct 5 2020, 10:37 AM
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/ suggesting we need to start paying more attention to k, or the dispersion of the virus, and not focus so much on r. most interesting are the implications for contact tracing; instead of targeting every infected person and tracking down everyone they came in contact with, it's more useful and more resourceful to go backwards to find the person who infected them and then forward trace from that person, as more often than not with this virus, it traces back to to one superspreader event or person.
QUOTE
The reason for backward tracing’s importance is similar to what the sociologist Scott L. Feld called the friendship paradox: Your friends are, on average, going to have more friends than you. (Sorry!) It’s straightforward once you take the network-level view. Friendships are not distributed equally; some people have a lot of friends, and your friend circle is more likely to include those social butterflies, because how could it not? They friended you and others. And those social butterflies will drive up the average number of friends that your friends have compared with you, a regular person. (Of course, this will not hold for the social butterflies themselves, but overdispersion means that there are much fewer of them.) Similarly, the infectious person who is transmitting the disease is like the pandemic social butterfly: The average number of people they infect will be much higher than most of the population, who will transmit the disease much less frequently. Indeed, as Kucharski and his co-authors show mathematically, overdispersion means that “forward tracing alone can, on average, identify at most the mean number of secondary infections (i.e. R)”; in contrast, “backward tracing increases this maximum number of traceable individuals by a factor of 2-3, as index cases are more likely to come from clusters than a case is to generate a cluster."
Posted by: blacksquare Oct 5 2020, 10:55 AM
Surely they're not that incompetent to use Excel rather than actual database software? How much money are they paying Serco?
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Oct 5 2020, 11:16 AM
:')
I'm putting it in the maximum size possible because that's how dumb this reason is.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 5 2020, 11:28 AM
QUOTE(blacksquare @ Oct 5 2020, 11:55 AM)
Surely they're not
that incompetent to use Excel rather than actual database software? How much money are they paying Serco?
It looks like I use a more sophisticated database software to log my PERSONAL CHART than they have for a 'World Beating' Test and Trace programme. I mean...
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 5 2020, 07:39 PM
12.6k genuine cases today
Posted by: J00psylicious Oct 5 2020, 07:50 PM
Rumblings only over 50s will be vaccinated once one is available...
...isn't that all but admitting the asks on the rest of us to self-isolate and keep our distance now are a deliberate political choice taken rather thanasking just over 50s and the vulnerable to?
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 5 2020, 08:14 PM
I may have the vaccination but my wife says she definitely won't. Her three close friends won't or her employers. They just don't trust it. Who knows what's in there they say.
I guess quite a few will refuse it. Wouldn't be right to make it compulsory though.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 5 2020, 08:27 PM
There was never any realistic chance that everybody who wants a vaccine will be able to get it. The government really needs to come clean and manage expectations.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 5 2020, 08:35 PM
QUOTE(J00psylicious @ Oct 5 2020, 08:50 PM)
Rumblings only over 50s will be vaccinated once one is available...
...isn't that all but admitting the asks on the rest of us to self-isolate and keep our distance now are a deliberate political choice taken rather thanasking just over 50s and the vulnerable to?
Well the death rate for under 50's is very very low so if the vaccine's not available for everyone it makes sense to do older people first and those most vulnerable.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 5 2020, 08:36 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 5 2020, 09:14 PM)
I may have the vaccination but my wife says she definitely won't. Her three close friends won't or her employers. They just don't trust it. Who knows what's in there they say.
I guess quite a few will refuse it. Wouldn't be right to make it compulsory though.
Well I don't want to force anyone, but I'd say anyone who is offered it that doesn't take it is probably stupid. If it gets approval, it's safe. But peoples choice if they'd rather a stiff arm for 2 days or end up on a ventillator in ICU.
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 5 2020, 09:27 PM)
There was never any realistic chance that everybody who wants a vaccine will be able to get it. The government really needs to come clean and manage expectations.
They have said that there is no point vaccinating Under 50s as there could be adverse side effects. Which, for the head of the UK vaccine programme was an absolutely ridiculous thing to come out to the press with. All they've done now is add fuel to the anti-vaxxers propaganda. Morons.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 5 2020, 08:39 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 5 2020, 09:36 PM)
Well I don't want to force anyone, but I'd say anyone who is offered it that doesn't take it is probably stupid. If it gets approval, it's safe. But peoples choice if they'd rather a stiff arm for 2 days or end up on a ventillator in ICU.
There's a rumour her friend has heard that there'll be a mind control drug in it too.
Posted by: Вuzzjack user Oct 5 2020, 08:54 PM
QUOTE(J00psylicious @ Oct 5 2020, 08:50 PM)
Rumblings only over 50s will be vaccinated once one is available...
...isn't that all but admitting the asks on the rest of us to self-isolate and keep our distance now are a deliberate political choice taken rather thanasking just over 50s and the vulnerable to?
This is sounding unusually right wing from you - I am quite sure I saw Nigel Farage making a similar point in one of his videos recently. You aren't really suggesting we just let it spread out of control with the under 50s? Yes it could contribute a bit to herd immunity but it will put over 50s even more at risk when they have to go to the supermarket if a large number of under 50s have the virus.. Not worth the risk.
I feel like I'm repeating myself and have made this point many times before on this thread
Posted by: Вuzzjack user Oct 5 2020, 08:59 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 5 2020, 09:36 PM)
Well I don't want to force anyone, but I'd say anyone who is offered it that doesn't take it is probably stupid. If it gets approval, it's safe. But peoples choice if they'd rather a stiff arm for 2 days or end up on a ventillator in ICU.
They have said that there is no point vaccinating Under 50s as there could be adverse side effects. Which, for the head of the UK vaccine programme was an absolutely ridiculous thing to come out to the press with. All they've done now is add fuel to the anti-vaxxers propaganda. Morons.
I am not an anti vaxxer but I will be sceptical about the new vaccine once it arrives, they will be able to test for short term side effects but not long term side effects as well, such as ones that could happen years after.
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Oct 5 2020, 09:00 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 5 2020, 11:39 PM)
There's a rumour her friend has heard that there'll be a mind control drug in it too.
Don't be silly! The government just wants to lower the population hence this virus which was designed by Bill Gates and released in China. Then you get vaccinated and die from the vaccine itself. Win-win!!1
Posted by: J00psylicious Oct 5 2020, 09:11 PM
QUOTE(Вuzzjack user @ Oct 5 2020, 09:54 PM)
This is sounding unusually right wing from you - I am quite sure I saw Nigel Farage making a similar point in one of his videos recently. You aren't really suggesting we just let it spread out of control with the under 50s? Yes it could contribute a bit to herd immunity but it will put over 50s even more at risk when they have to go to the supermarket if a large number of under 50s have the virus.. Not worth the risk.
I feel like I'm repeating myself and have made this point many times before on this thread
I believe putting a right or left wing spin on this is a fallacy.
This becomes an issue of being honest with your population.
We have the capacity to not have to have anyone in the vulnerable groups going out and mixing. We have deliveries. We have door to door services. Etc. Etc. Most of us have made great use of them during the pandemic.
I don't understand why the whole world is pussyfooting around what seems to be more and more apparent a truth: that we don't actually need to isolate if we aren't in the at risk groups. That this is, in fact, a huge sacrifice. And look, it's fine to make a sacrifice. We make lots of sacrifices in our day to day lives. But if that is the case, let's call a spade a spade rather than demonizing younger people for 'putting themselves at risk' when they're never going to be offered a vaccine.
Posted by: Klaus Oct 5 2020, 09:12 PM
They’re only vaccinating over 50s to control them to become more woke and conform to the ultra-leftie prescribed thinking. They’re eradicating free speech!!1!
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 5 2020, 09:12 PM
Don't forget the 5G towers!!
Are the people who are hearing rumours getting confused by the flu vaccine, which THIS year is free for anyone over 50 instead of 65 or in a specific vulnerable or at risk category (as it is usually)?
Posted by: Вuzzjack user Oct 5 2020, 09:40 PM
QUOTE(J00psylicious @ Oct 5 2020, 10:11 PM)
I believe putting a right or left wing spin on this is a fallacy.
This becomes an issue of being honest with your population.
We have the capacity to not have to have anyone in the vulnerable groups going out and mixing. We have deliveries. We have door to door services. Etc. Etc. Most of us have made great use of them during the pandemic.
I don't understand why the whole world is pussyfooting around what seems to be more and more apparent a truth: that we don't actually need to isolate if we aren't in the at risk groups. That this is, in fact, a huge sacrifice. And look, it's fine to make a sacrifice. We make lots of sacrifices in our day to day lives. But if that is the case, let's call a spade a spade rather than demonizing younger people for 'putting themselves at risk' when they're never going to be offered a vaccine.
There is no way of completely shielding over 50s/those with health conditions and that's the problem. Sadly not just 'mixing' that causes the spread of this virus and this is a message that needs to put out there more, even going to get essential food is a risk and even getting home deliveries as it can be transmitted through surfaces. You can't stop this but if loads of under 50s have the virus all at once as what would happen if your idea was policy then the risk goes up and a lot of older people shielding are still going to get it.
We don't have any evidence in my opinion as to whether young people are being demonized unfairly, we would have to see data on how many are observing distancing compared with other age groups to judge that.
Posted by: Envoirment Oct 5 2020, 10:38 PM
QUOTE(J00psylicious @ Oct 5 2020, 10:11 PM)
I don't understand why the whole world is pussyfooting around what seems to be more and more apparent a truth: that we don't actually need to isolate if we aren't in the at risk groups. That this is, in fact, a huge sacrifice. And look, it's fine to make a sacrifice. We make lots of sacrifices in our day to day lives. But if that is the case, let's call a spade a spade rather than demonizing younger people for 'putting themselves at risk' when they're never going to be offered a vaccine.
The issue is that Covid-19 can cause long term health issues in healthy people too. Don't assume just because you're not in an at risk group or have underlying health conditions that the virus will be mild. The long term effects of the virus are what people should really be worried about. But most people tend to only focus on the here and now/short term. There have been numerous cases of seemingly fit and healthy people having rather prolonged consequences due to the virus. One of my co-worker's friends was a marathon runner, but now she can barely walk up and down stairs without getting out of breath and it's been many months since she had Covid.
Posted by: J00psylicious Oct 5 2020, 10:53 PM
Well,if that's the case, then everyone needs the vaccine.
All I'm doing is pointing out that the two things can't be simultaneously true.
Posted by: Andrew. Oct 5 2020, 11:02 PM
QUOTE(J00psylicious @ Oct 5 2020, 10:11 PM)
I believe putting a right or left wing spin on this is a fallacy.
This becomes an issue of being honest with your population.
We have the capacity to not have to have anyone in the vulnerable groups going out and mixing. We have deliveries. We have door to door services. Etc. Etc. Most of us have made great use of them during the pandemic.
I don't understand why the whole world is pussyfooting around what seems to be more and more apparent a truth: that we don't actually need to isolate if we aren't in the at risk groups. That this is, in fact, a huge sacrifice. And look, it's fine to make a sacrifice. We make lots of sacrifices in our day to day lives. But if that is the case, let's call a spade a spade rather than demonizing younger people for 'putting themselves at risk' when they're never going to be offered a vaccine.
This is what I've been trying to say but struggled to put into words. Not to be all Denise Welch but we can't all put our lives on hold when we as young people (anyone up to about 65 in fact) are more likely to die crossing the road etc. And I'm really not one of those people saying 'it's fine if some oldies die', I ABSOLUTELY see the need for the current measures, but that's as far as it can go- another lockdown would be the worst thing possible for all of us. So many people are losing their jobs already, the atmosphere in Aberdeen is very weird like we all know the impending doom coming our way (and it's not the virus) It's sensible to keep wearing masks, keep distancing etc and I'm behind Nicola at the moment but this is as far as we should go, at least in the current range at least.
Perhaps the best thing to do would have been to keep the original lockdown longer, and not lifted it when 200+ people a day were still dying?
Posted by: Rooney Oct 6 2020, 08:30 AM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 5 2020, 10:12 PM)
Don't forget the 5G towers!!
Are the people who are hearing rumours getting confused by the flu vaccine, which THIS year is free for anyone over 50 instead of 65 or in a specific vulnerable or at risk category (as it is usually)?
No it's the UK vaccinne task force. Don't think it's rumours, I suspect it's true. Or if those Under-50 are vaccinated, it's likely to be 12-18 months away you'd suspect.
https://www.ft.com/content/d2e00128-7889-4d5d-84a3-43e51355a751
Posted by: J00psylicious Oct 6 2020, 09:40 AM
Back to lockdown in Scotland from Friday....the joy https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/6126178/coronavirus-scotland-lockdown-sturgeon-circuit-breaker/
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 6 2020, 09:43 AM
I just don't see how it's gonna work overall. They'll bring that in, everything will (hopefully) settle down a bit that's great but then restrictions will be eased and cases will start to flare up again. This "buying time" mindset is simply not viable imo.
Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Oct 6 2020, 09:56 AM
Omnishambles
Posted by: J00psylicious Oct 6 2020, 10:12 AM
QUOTE(Dobbo @ Oct 6 2020, 10:43 AM)
I just don't see how it's gonna work overall. They'll bring that in, everything will (hopefully) settle down a bit that's great but then restrictions will be eased and cases will start to flare up again. This "buying time" mindset is simply not viable imo.
I agree, which is part of what prompted my longer post above.
Everything that the UK is doing is reactive and playing catchup, with a side helping of actively misleading the public in the hope of getting a better outcome. That only works for so long and has the negative result of going completely sideways if ever the cat gets out of the bag and people cotton on to the fact they've been lied to.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 6 2020, 10:29 AM
QUOTE(J00psylicious @ Oct 6 2020, 11:12 AM)
I agree, which is part of what prompted my longer post above.
Everything that the UK is doing is reactive and playing catchup, with a side helping of actively misleading the public in the hope of getting a better outcome. That only works for so long and has the negative result of going completely sideways if ever the cat gets out of the bag and people cotton on to the fact they've been lied to.
We are stalling for time for a vaccine and stalling because it is respiratory virus season. I do think if this was spring/summer there would be a totally different attitude. Loads of industries have been briefed with April. My gut feeling tells me we just need to make it through the winter months. Hospitals are overun at the best of times every winter. We want to manage risk as there is a real chance we start having to choose who lives and who dies.
I don't really agree with lockdowns again etc. but we clearly need to do something. Ever since schools and Universities went back there's been a clear increase in cases.
Posted by: J00psylicious Oct 6 2020, 10:55 AM
That's what I mean though. Every time there are case rises it is after extremely predictable actions that were 99% going to lead to case rises, and then the government turns around and blames - and punishes! - the general public.
1000s of kids mix in school, taking public transport to get there and going out to the shops at lunch and break, touching handles and doors and products, and going home to spread it through their families and anyone in their families' support bubbles, and surprise surprise, cases rise. People move from across the country to mingle together in new 'households' at university, including people coming in from abroad, and cases rise. Neither of those things needed to happen, and who is punished for allowing them to? Why, the general public, who else? And you can bet your bottom dollar these restrictions will have a get-out clause for the rich once again. We'll hide in our homes and put our lives on hold, only to find out a few months down the line that life was going on as before for everyone in a certain tax bracket and that we were foolish to actually abide by what we were told were set in stone rules, haha pleb, they were only guidelines!
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Oct 6 2020, 11:01 AM
I saw some bitch sniffing like 5 different breads (obv without a mask) in a supermarket the other day. Best by date is there FOR A REASON Linda.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 6 2020, 11:05 AM
I think it is pretty clear that Universities should have offered discounted online learning and encouraged students to remain at home (where possible) as a temporary measure, but we all know that the overriding incentive was to get the students in and paying rent.
I don't buy the argument that schools are driving infection rates directly, children are largely asymptomatic and appear to be less contagious.. we've had 21 deaths of people <20 years old in England so far, all with underlying health conditions. They may be driving them indirectly by allowing some spread between households, who then mix further in pubs/restaurants, but again - this wouldn't explain the greater spread being in 20-30 year olds.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 6 2020, 12:53 PM
QUOTE(J00psylicious @ Oct 6 2020, 11:40 AM)
Back to lockdown in Scotland from Friday....the joy https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/6126178/coronavirus-scotland-lockdown-sturgeon-circuit-breaker/
As ever, the sun is worth less than the paper it’s printed on.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 6 2020, 03:53 PM
QUOTE(ɥɔʇᴉq @ Oct 6 2020, 12:01 PM)
I saw some bitch sniffing like 5 different breads (obv without a mask) in a supermarket the other day. Best by date is there FOR A REASON Linda.
Sniffing bread's a new one for me as they usually squeeze it to see if it's fresh.
Posted by: Вuzzjack user Oct 6 2020, 04:43 PM
QUOTE(ɥɔʇᴉq @ Oct 6 2020, 12:01 PM)
I saw some bitch sniffing like 5 different breads (obv without a mask) in a supermarket the other day. Best by date is there FOR A REASON Linda.
This is no better than squeezing the bread, just as likely to spread the virus. You should have told this person off for doing this like the ɥɔʇᴉq you are, but I suppose you didn't want to cause an argument.
I think the government should be advising older and at risk people that a. loose bread without packaging should be avoided and b. to wipe down any groceries they get from the supermarket with mild soap and water.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 6 2020, 06:03 PM
We’ve got a quasi curfew in place thanks to a few selfish f***s. 11pm to 6am everything apart from pharmacies and petrol stations (strictly to sell petrol) is to be shut and public parks are to shut overnight too. Bans on socialising with more than 5 other people and two households in effect overnight too. Indoor private parties got a 10 person limit (7am - 10pm)
All because some selfish c**ts had to have raves in the parks overnight which is causing massive community spread and our worst infection numbers of the entire pandemic. I hate people.
They all crying coz they miss being drugged up to their eyeballs raving at 7am on a Sunday in Berghain and because the clubs are about the only until now that was prohibited they started illegally partying and they’ve now f***ed the infection rates to the point where some of their fave clubs are never gonna reopen. Even the ones that survive won’t open until 2021 now. We were doing well. They could have been back legally clubbing later this month or next month if they’d just stayed the f*** at home for a couple more weeks.
Rant over. Just pure raging about selfish pricks
Posted by: T Boy Oct 6 2020, 07:00 PM
I have absolutely no idea why there hasn’t been a positive test in my school yet, literally all the other local schools have had one.
Day from Hell today and I actually hugged a colleague. It’s easy to forget the situation in a school.
Posted by: Andrew. Oct 7 2020, 03:11 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54442386
Surely all of us can agree that we can't keep having these blanket rules affecting everyone. I'm glad Nic hasn't put all of Scotland under the new restrictions and has focused on the central belt but closing restaurants COMPLETELY is sooo excessive, and the alcohol rule will just lead to more conjestion. These new measures really aren't going down well here. I get the need for the restrictions to continue as cases are rising so fastly and I won't mind so much if these ones only last the two weeks. We'll see I guess!
Posted by: JSG Oct 7 2020, 03:17 PM
I live in one of the highly restricted areas of Scotland. She's not shutting restaurants, we're going to take away and delivery only but it's looking highly likely they're gonna be cutting hours in my work now. Pubs are also closed in my area from Friday ����♂️
Posted by: Rooney Oct 7 2020, 03:18 PM
QUOTE(Andrew. @ Oct 7 2020, 04:11 PM)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54442386
Surely all of us can agree that we can't keep having these blanket rules affecting everyone. I'm glad Nic hasn't put all of Scotland under the new restrictions and has focused on the central belt but closing restaurants COMPLETELY is sooo excessive, and the alcohol rule will just lead to more conjestion. These new measures really aren't going down well here. I get the need for the restrictions to continue as cases are rising so fastly and I won't mind so much if these ones only last the two weeks. We'll see I guess!
Isn't the central belt like 80% of the population though? I get the need for action, but its the same in England as well, the majority of it falls on deaf ears.
I had a look at the PHE reports earlier and by fat the biggest cases of transmission were educational settings and workplaces. Hospitality makes up a small target.. I honestly think unless you target workplaces and education then all these measures ultimately will cause more harm than good in the long term.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 7 2020, 04:32 PM
Haven't the rates in the lockdown cities of Bolton etc. actually gone up anyway - in the new normal when I've gone to places for a coffee or a bite to eat I've felt incredibly safe, the staff are all wearing face coverings, there are one-way systems and you check-in with providing trace details or the NHS app. Everyone is well spaced out, they santisied our hands as we went in and in the summer months you could sit outside too.
The worst place is work but thankfully we are only allowed MAX 2 in the office at the same time, and we must wipe down our desks/keyboards etc. at the end of each shift.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 7 2020, 04:47 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 7 2020, 05:32 PM)
Haven't the rates in the lockdown cities of Bolton etc. actually gone up anyway - in the new normal when I've gone to places for a coffee or a bite to eat I've felt incredibly safe, the staff are all wearing face coverings, there are one-way systems and you check-in with providing trace details or the NHS app. Everyone is well spaced out, they santisied our hands as we went in and in the summer months you could sit outside too.
The worst place is work but thankfully we are only allowed MAX 2 in the office at the same time, and we must wipe down our desks/keyboards etc. at the end of each shift.
The stats are quite interesting - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/923668/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_40.pdf - scroll to page 16 and the 2x charts.
I mean maybe Governments are missing something that I am. I think the issue is in a lot of workplaces (including hospitality) is its very difficult for staff to distance each other. Its easier when you're in an office, but still, what is the point of the risk?
Quite simply all these measures we have in place I don't think are that effective unless you are truly accurate with your track & trace and then make sure people isolate.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 7 2020, 05:09 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 7 2020, 05:47 PM)
The stats are quite interesting - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/923668/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_40.pdf - scroll to page 16 and the 2x charts.
I mean maybe Governments are missing something that I am. I think the issue is in a lot of workplaces (including hospitality) is its very difficult for staff to distance each other. Its easier when you're in an office, but still, what is the point of the risk?
Quite simply all these measures we have in place I don't think are that effective unless you are truly accurate with your track & trace and then make sure people isolate.
Yes, agreed. Here are the stats I was referring to btw:
QUOTE
Bolton: up almost 13 times from 20 cases to 255 per 100k people
Burnley: over 20 times from 21 to 434 per 100k
Bury: over 13 times from 20 to 266 per 100k
^^ These are whilst under stricter restrictions for TWO MONTHS.
Posted by: Вuzzjack user Oct 7 2020, 05:14 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 7 2020, 06:09 PM)
Yes, agreed. Here are the stats I was referring to btw:
Bolton: up almost 13 times from 20 cases to 255 per 100k people
Burnley: over 20 times from 21 to 434 per 100k
Bury: over 13 times from 20 to 266 per 100k
^^ These are whilst under stricter restrictions for TWO MONTHS.
Yes its depressing that nothing now seems to work effectively in lowering spread apart from a full enforced lockdown, which of course has all its other issues with it.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 7 2020, 05:23 PM
Social distancing in school is impossible. The kids aren’t required to distance so they just act like normal. Teachers are supposed to distance but we don’t because it’s almost impossible and kids literally walk right up to you without thinking. The kids aren’t wearing masks even though we encourage them to but the staff are wearing them in corridors. I imagine it’s just as difficult in other work places.
The kids were more careful in July when we opened with social distancing. There were almost 6 months to plan, instigate and more importantly spend to make schools a more safe environment. But of course that doesn’t happen and case numbers soar.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 7 2020, 06:58 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 7 2020, 05:18 PM)
Isn't the central belt like 80% of the population though? I get the need for action, but its the same in England as well, the majority of it falls on deaf ears.
Yes. It is. The restrictions cover 18 local authorities and 3.4 million people of Scotlands ~5.5m population. Doesn’t cover the whole of the Central belt as Fife, Perth & Kinross, Dundee and Tayside are all excluded from the harshest level of the new restrictions and are considered the eastern/northeast portion of the central belt. A good 0,75m are in these local authorities.
It’s a strange infection pattern because you’re not seeing the same levels in Dundee or Fife. Fife May be rural in the North but it has St Andrews Uni which has a very very large student population (9000) in proportion to the town itself (16000) and they’ve had less than 16 cases for the past 7 days according to PHS. Most students are in halls or flat shares and it’s not ripped through them as it as Glasgow or Edinburgh. Even south fife where the Edinburgh folk who can’t afford Edinburgh live hasn’t had a massive spike
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 7 2020, 07:51 PM
Looks like pubs etc could be closing in high risk areas on Monday.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 7 2020, 07:53 PM
I assume it’s the more deprived areas getting more cases
Posted by: Andrew. Oct 7 2020, 08:22 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Oct 7 2020, 06:23 PM)
Social distancing in school is impossible. The kids aren’t required to distance so they just act like normal. Teachers are supposed to distance but we don’t because it’s almost impossible and kids literally walk right up to you without thinking. The kids aren’t wearing masks even though we encourage them to but the staff are wearing them in corridors. I imagine it’s just as difficult in other work places.
The kids were more careful in July when we opened with social distancing. There were almost 6 months to plan, instigate and more importantly spend to make schools a more safe environment. But of course that doesn’t happen and case numbers soar.
The mask compliance in the corridors has been almost 100% here, well moving between classes it has at least.
Posted by: J00psylicious Oct 7 2020, 08:27 PM
I have my fingers crossed this will just be two weeks, which is essentially just an enforced quarantine.
Two weeks I can do. Any more will be hard.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 7 2020, 08:28 PM
QUOTE(Andrew. @ Oct 7 2020, 09:22 PM)
The mask compliance in the corridors has been almost 100% here, well moving between classes it has at least.
But it’s mandatory where you are. It isn’t in Wales. It’s up to the school to make it mandatory here and all we’ve done is advise and set and example. For a day or two we had compliance but it’s gone by the wayside.
I’m just feeling really low at the moment, I don’t think we can keep going the way we are but at the same time I can’t see anything changing.
Posted by: J00psylicious Oct 7 2020, 08:29 PM
Things will change when upper middle class people are affected.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 7 2020, 09:00 PM
QUOTE(J00psylicious @ Oct 7 2020, 09:29 PM)
Things will change when upper middle class people are affected.
It's clear that Labour councils are pushing for restrictions, but certainly in more affulent middle class areas social distancing is just easier. More likely to work home home, larger houses etc. - its clear deprivation is having an effect. I'm just surprised Sheffield hasn't had an restrictions put on it yet either. Anyway, it all sounds a bit grim. The problem we have now is the people that it needs to fall on to, they will continue to break the rules.
As I have said before, without a full lockdown it is going to be really hard to control, the virus just does not scare people at the moment. Until we can effectively isolate infected people all these measures on hospitality just some nonsensical in my opinion.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 8 2020, 03:51 PM
The infections coming out of the Universities are ridiculous. No surprise all the big University towns/cities are seeing their infection rates spike up (Bristol & Exeter the latest). Over 1000 students have tested positive at Newcastle & Northumbria Universities. I wonder how many Universities are going to get sued once all the dust has settled.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 8 2020, 04:49 PM
It’s scary to see hospital admissions rising now too
Posted by: T Boy Oct 8 2020, 07:15 PM
So apparently loads of teachers have been told by their schools not to use the NHS Test and Trace app as it keeps alerting them to close positive cases and instructing them to self isolate for fourteen days even after receiving a negative test result. It’s supposedly causing chaos in some schools.
We had a depressing Covid meeting first thing today and one teacher said we need to prioritise our own health over the children’s education. There’s a point in there but I really don’t think the education is that trivial.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 8 2020, 07:18 PM
QUOTE(Steve201 @ Oct 8 2020, 05:49 PM)
It’s scary to see hospital admissions rising now too
Quite a few young people, 19, 20, 21 and later 20's in hospital in Manchester in ICU now. They're trying to emphasise that the young don't always get it mildly.
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 8 2020, 07:33 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Oct 8 2020, 08:15 PM)
So apparently loads of teachers have been told by their schools not to use the NHS Test and Trace app as it keeps alerting them to close positive cases and instructing them to self isolate for fourteen days even after receiving a negative test result. It’s supposedly causing chaos in some schools.
We had a depressing Covid meeting first thing today and one teacher said we need to prioritise our own health over the children’s education. There’s a point in there but I really don’t think the education is that trivial.
Same here, it makes no sense for me to have to switch it off when I walk into work and then turn it back on when I walk home..?
Posted by: Rooney Oct 8 2020, 08:01 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Oct 8 2020, 08:15 PM)
So apparently loads of teachers have been told by their schools not to use the NHS Test and Trace app as it keeps alerting them to close positive cases and instructing them to self isolate for fourteen days even after receiving a negative test result. It’s supposedly causing chaos in some schools.
We had a depressing Covid meeting first thing today and one teacher said we need to prioritise our own health over the children’s education. There’s a point in there but I really don’t think the education is that trivial.
I think the patch will get ironed out eventually which sorts the issue, but it is annoying. I've had it at least 3 times now that I've been close to positive cases. You don't know who it is picking up.
Lots of lecturers have started striking over their health.. I do think there comes a point when there may be some striking going on. However, it does seem like school transmission is quote low in comparison to other settings.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 8 2020, 10:32 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 8 2020, 08:18 PM)
Quite a few young people, 19, 20, 21 and later 20's in hospital in Manchester in ICU now. They're trying to emphasise that the young don't always get it mildly.
The numbers show the younger you are the more chance you will have of recovering but it’s just simply a lottery so anyone can die from it.
Posted by: J00psylicious Oct 8 2020, 11:50 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Oct 8 2020, 08:15 PM)
So apparently loads of teachers have been told by their schools not to use the NHS Test and Trace app as it keeps alerting them to close positive cases and instructing them to self isolate for fourteen days even after receiving a negative test result. It’s supposedly causing chaos in some schools.
We had a depressing Covid meeting first thing today and one teacher said we need to prioritise our own health over the children’s education. There’s a point in there but I really don’t think the education is that trivial.
While I think education is important I absolutely think health comes first. You only get one shot at that whereas education can be resat or caught up on.
If I'm honest I get worried seeing the attitude otherwise, from people working in healthcare too. The first thing we learnt in first aid was to assure your own safety first as if you go everyone loses their asset.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 8 2020, 11:59 PM
I'm taking Vitamin D tablets every day now. For the sake of £2 for 120 tablets and a loss of natural sunlight it seems a no brainer. There are loads of articles from scientists and researchers saying higher levels of Vitamin D minimises the risk of Covid. Really don't know why local public health are not advising us to take supplements (well, I guess black market and stockpiling) and eat cereal.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 9 2020, 05:40 AM
How are y’all getting so many notifications off the NHS app. Jesus just how bad is it where you are?
I’ve never had anything off the Corona Warn App and I’m in Germany’s hot spot
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 9 2020, 06:42 AM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 9 2020, 12:59 AM)
I'm taking Vitamin D tablets every day now. For the sake of £2 for 120 tablets and a loss of natural sunlight it seems a no brainer. There are loads of articles from scientists and researchers saying higher levels of Vitamin D minimises the risk of Covid. Really don't know why local public health are not advising us to take supplements (well, I guess black market and stockpiling) and eat cereal.
I take a multi-vitamin every day which has 100% vitamin D in it. Everyone should imo.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 9 2020, 09:15 AM
Intake vitamin d and c tablets. The c tabs are actually nice a bit like lucozade.
Haven’t had any app notifications yet even though floors in our work have closed due to it!
Posted by: JSG Oct 9 2020, 09:38 AM
I've just read an article on Facebook about how a woman who was told to self isolate by a test and trace worker, refused to do what the worker told her, went to a pub and got landed with a £1000 fine because the test and trace app located her 😂
But what beggars belief is the amount of people in the comment section saying, 'well don't download the app and then you wouldn't get caught.'
Or 'How dare this woman live her life'. I'm also pretty sure she had a positive test after this happened.
They way I see it is she had the virus, went to a pub, potentially passed it on to others who may live with older relatives who could also be of ill health. Those relatives go shopping the next day, again potentially passing covid onto others and in effect is contributing to hospitalisations and deaths. I don't know if I'm in the minority, although it feels it sometimes but I wish everyone would follow the rules and advice until a vaccine is found or its brought under control so we can have some sort of normality.
I for one want to see my neices and nephews, brothers and sisters and my mum who all live at the opposite end of the country 😡😡😡
Posted by: Rooney Oct 9 2020, 10:39 AM
QUOTE(JSG @ Oct 9 2020, 10:38 AM)
I've just read an article on Facebook about how a woman who was told to self isolate by a test and trace worker, refused to do what the worker told her, went to a pub and got landed with a £1000 fine because the test and trace app located her 😂
But what beggars belief is the amount of people in the comment section saying, 'well don't download the app and then you wouldn't get caught.'
Or 'How dare this woman live her life'. I'm also pretty sure she had a positive test after this happened.
They way I see it is she had the virus, went to a pub, potentially passed it on to others who may live with older relatives who could also be of ill health. Those relatives go shopping the next day, again potentially passing covid onto others and in effect is contributing to hospitalisations and deaths. I don't know if I'm in the minority, although it feels it sometimes but I wish everyone would follow the rules and advice until a vaccine is found or its brought under control so we can have some sort of normality.
I for one want to see my neices and nephews, brothers and sisters and my mum who all live at the opposite end of the country 😡😡😡
It doesn't matter what measures we have in place, if people are not isolated properly when they have the virus or are told to isolate, we will always be going round in circles. It's a deadly virus but the only way we can really contain it, is a lockdown. Or using some pretty dark almost prison esque methods.
If you look at all of the good cases of countries that have managed/eradicated the virus, they have all used some pretty draconian methods (New Zealand, Australia, China).
Anyway what does it matter when MPs are getting a £3,000 payrise and the rest of the country is suffering with economic downfall
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 9 2020, 10:51 AM
I'm not so sure about Vitamin D supplements, I've never taken any and haven't had a flu since January 2011 - that one made me so weak that I almost missed a day of work but unfortunately for me it came on strong during my last night shift so I was ill on my days off.
Posted by: JSG Oct 9 2020, 10:57 AM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 9 2020, 11:39 AM)
It doesn't matter what measures we have in place, if people are not isolated properly when they have the virus or are told to isolate, we will always be going round in circles. It's a deadly virus but the only way we can really contain it, is a lockdown. Or using some pretty dark almost prison esque methods.
If you look at all of the good cases of countries that have managed/eradicated the virus, they have all used some pretty draconian methods (New Zealand, Australia, China).
Anyway what does it matter when MPs are getting a £3,000 payrise and the rest of the country is suffering with economic downfall
Oh yeah, I saw that about ten minutes ago. They're proposing a stop to the rise of minimum/living wage next year as well are they not?
It's rediculous they they're getting a payrise just now. I suppose they're excuse would be that they are working extra hard because of the pandemic
Posted by: Rooney Oct 9 2020, 11:55 AM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 9 2020, 11:51 AM)
I'm not so sure about Vitamin D supplements, I've never taken any and haven't had a flu since January 2011 - that one made me so weak that I almost missed a day of work but unfortunately for me it came on strong during my last night shift so I was ill on my days off.
There's a few studies that it lessens the effect and boosts your immune system. I've personally never taken them before and never had the flu (I had glandular fever in 2012 which wiped me out for a few weeks). But just seems simple as we have less of it during autumn/winter. For the sake of a couple of quid its a no brianer for me.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 9 2020, 01:11 PM
QUOTE(JSG @ Oct 9 2020, 10:38 AM)
I've just read an article on Facebook about how a woman who was told to self isolate by a test and trace worker, refused to do what the worker told her, went to a pub and got landed with a £1000 fine because the test and trace app located her 😂
But what beggars belief is the amount of people in the comment section saying, 'well don't download the app and then you wouldn't get caught.'
Or 'How dare this woman live her life'. I'm also pretty sure she had a positive test after this happened.
They way I see it is she had the virus, went to a pub, potentially passed it on to others who may live with older relatives who could also be of ill health. Those relatives go shopping the next day, again potentially passing covid onto others and in effect is contributing to hospitalisations and deaths. I don't know if I'm in the minority, although it feels it sometimes but I wish everyone would follow the rules and advice until a vaccine is found or its brought under control so we can have some sort of normality.
I for one want to see my neices and nephews, brothers and sisters and my mum who all live at the opposite end of the country 😡😡😡
Yeh people are thick sometimes just goes to show how previleged we are to live in a free society in normal time’s. a journalist in ni Steven Nolan did a piece on his show this week showing him harassing people coming out of shops without a mask and asking them why and most just laughed and said they don’t care and most people on social media were on the side of the people found guilty.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 9 2020, 01:14 PM
Maybe this will help anti-mask people understand.
Posted by: JSG Oct 9 2020, 01:44 PM
QUOTE(Steve201 @ Oct 9 2020, 02:11 PM)
Yeh people are thick sometimes just goes to show how previleged we are to live in a free society in normal time’s. a journalist in ni Steven Nolan did a piece on his show this week showing him harassing people coming out of shops without a mask and asking them why and most just laughed and said they don’t care and most people on social media were on the side of the people found guilty.
Those will be the same people that are complaining about pubs shutting in the central belt of Scotland or Northern England, if that happens. It just annoys me. Wearing a mask won't do anyone any harm. If everyone wore a mask, we'd all mostly be safe. Look at China. Yes the outbreak started there, but now look, almost covid free and has been for months. They don't do anything differently except wear masks 🤷🏻♂️
Posted by: Rooney Oct 9 2020, 01:52 PM
QUOTE(JSG @ Oct 9 2020, 02:44 PM)
Those will be the same people that are complaining about pubs shutting in the central belt of Scotland or Northern England, if that happens. It just annoys me. Wearing a mask won't do anyone any harm. If everyone wore a mask, we'd all mostly be safe. Look at China. Yes the outbreak started there, but now look, almost covid free and has been for months. They don't do anything differently except wear masks 🤷🏻♂️
I mean, that's what China want you believe. The reality is that is not the case. Very similar to New Zealand and Australia, to control the virus you have lock it down. There is absolutely no way China have eradicated the virus just by wearing masks. Quite simply they got out of the mess through mass testing and then literally locking people up who turn positive tests. It's what Italy are doing as well. Wearing a mask certainly helps although I still see more people with masks on than with masks off.
As I've said before, until we physically quarantine people a lot of these measures just fall on deaf ears.
Posted by: Iz~ Oct 9 2020, 02:31 PM
There's masks in China, but there are also temperature scanners, enforced scan at any public entrance (with high temperatures turned away), and you have to have a QR code (localised to your city) that is normally green but will go red and deny you access to anywhere if you come into contact with a case, and fines at the very least if you are found positive and don't report it. There's a lot they're doing that the British government is not, and they're not even on high alert anymore.
They aren't restricting many activities now, but they act quickly whenever an official case is reported (can't speak for its current spread but no one knows that, I just know I've seen no sign of it). I have heard anecdotes about the odd nightmare quarantine for inbound travellers but for the most part they've got the virus under control and that's through never ever letting up on it, using all of the technology and prevention available to them and having a population willing to be compliant.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 9 2020, 02:41 PM
QUOTE(Iz~ @ Oct 9 2020, 03:31 PM)
There's masks in China, but there are also temperature scanners, enforced scan at any public entrance (with high temperatures turned away), and you have to have a QR code (localised to your city) that is normally green but will go red and deny you access to anywhere if you come into contact with a case, and fines at the very least if you are found positive and don't report it. There's a lot they're doing that the British government is not, and they're not even on high alert anymore.
They aren't restricting many activities now, but they act quickly whenever an official case is reported (can't speak for its current spread but no one knows that, I just know I've seen no sign of it). I have heard anecdotes about the odd nightmare quarantine for inbound travellers but for the most part they've got the virus under control and that's through never ever letting up on it, using all of the technology and prevention available to them and having a population willing to be compliant.
I think if the Covid-19 pandemic has taught us anything is that the rest of the world outside of Australasia and Asia is certainly not prepared for a pandemic. I know SARS, bird flu, MERS etc. were a bigger risk over in Asia to start with so there are lot of the fundamental controls which lots of Europe got so wrong. I totally agree around the compliance, but this is largely down to China itself. The same problems we are seeing in the UK are happening all over Europe and the Americas. If people are not scared of the virus or of the consequences of their actions then we are always going to be on the losing foot.
Posted by: mdh Oct 9 2020, 03:20 PM
Gobsmacked that Angela Merkel has given Germany "10 days to get the infection rate down" as opposed to imposing extra restrictions straight away. Has she been completely ignoring the worsening situation in France, Spain and the UK?! Makes me feel better about some of our government's decisions :')
Posted by: Oliver Oct 9 2020, 03:32 PM
I don’t understand why people find it so hard to self isolate. I’m not even ill and I’ve not left the house in about 10 days, with the pubs closed the only reason I would leave is for shopping and we’re still doing once a month shops so all good.
I don’t even realise half the time that I’ve not left to get exercise or anything.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 9 2020, 03:58 PM
Except that is not what she’s said at all. Even if you read the BBC tl;dr version instead of someone like Deutsche Welle who have a much more detailed article.
Germany’s biggest driver in cases are its major cities. Berlin and Bremen have the worst 7 day rates at the moment of the 16 federal states. She met with Mayors of 11 cities including Berlin and it was agreed that any city having cases of more than 50/100k per 7 days would adopt Berlins new restrictions on gathering and it’s quasi curfew on alcohol sales/restaurants and bars immediately. That includes Frankfurt and several other cities as well as Berlin.
Other measures introduced for these hot spots include stricter mask and social distance measures.
Also agreed today is that when cases are over 35 (/100k per 7 days) for the area the local authorities would bring in the RKI and the military to assist with contact tracing. Berlin was pushing for this as the district of Berlin-Neukölln has been struggling to keep up a little with their heavily increased case load (143 is the 7 day rate)
Far from nothing it’s a series of targeted measures to combat the hot spots with a warning that the country will get restrictions as a whole if things aren’t contained. Currently there isn’t a need for nationwide restrictions when you have several states with very low incidence rates (eg MVP) and evidence that it is city nightlife that is driving infections. The city of Köln for example is at a rate of 49.8 compared to Sachsen-Anhalt as a state who have a 5.9 incidence rate. You can’t have the same measures for both, its not borne out by the evidence.
Think people also need to remember that Germany has been slow, measured and considered the whole way through. Merkel doesn’t move fast, on anything. She waits. Sees the evidence and then moves. Until the sudden leap to over 4K we had been maintaining a 2-2,5k a day rate for a number of weeks with no evidence we were following in the path of other countries. The same for Italy. After 2 days of higher rates she has reacted to the situation in front of her and targeted the big cities. If that works then there’s no need to go further. The UK media only reports Germany when there’s a big spike with little context and little coverage at other times. Merkel and Spahn have been on tv, in parliament and in media for weeks here warning that we could see infections spike and warning of measures to come if things deteriorated. This is the next step in the programme we were forewarned about. Just because the British media hasn’t spoon fed it to you doesn’t mean that nothing has been happening or that nothing is happening.
As for that last sentence, lol. You’re entitled to your opinion but just lol. With every passing second I’m more glad that I emigrated to Germany than had to stay in the NW for this shambolic mismanaged shitshow. Boris couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 9 2020, 04:40 PM
An interesting listen if you have a spare 30 minutes: https://members.tortoisemedia.com/2020/10/05/201005-test-and-trace-slow-news-audio-hancock-is-great-plus-transcript/content.html
QUOTE
By last week, more than 13 million Britons had signed up to the new app. But contact tracing was still not working properly – with many reports of the same people being contacted more than 30 times…or not at all.
One of the key players in the story who spoke to the Prime Minister in the past few days described him like this: ‘I think he is lonely and a bit downhearted. He knows that the system doesn’t really work but can’t quite say so. It’s less than ten months since he won a historic election victory and now he is already being treated as a failure and a has-been’.
It’s the kind of justice of the gods that a classicist like Johnson should understand.
Who was guilty? Everyone. Boris, Johnson, Matt Hancock, Chris Whitty, Dido Harding, Deloitte, and the Whitehall officials who clung on to power and data as if it truly belonged to them.
In this story, all the suspects are guilty. It is not Corona-Cluedo – Colonel Hancock, in the office, with the rubbish app – but Murder on the Orient Express.
And now we are heading into winter, with 7,000 new cases a day, the annual outbreak of flu compounding the threat to the vulnerable, woefully unready for what is coming.
And the outrageous fact is that – this time – we could have been so much better-prepared. Posterity will not be kind to all the culprits.
Posted by: blacksquare Oct 9 2020, 04:46 PM
QUOTE(Iz~ @ Oct 9 2020, 03:31 PM)
There's masks in China, but there are also temperature scanners, enforced scan at any public entrance (with high temperatures turned away), and you have to have a QR code (localised to your city) that is normally green but will go red and deny you access to anywhere if you come into contact with a case, and fines at the very least if you are found positive and don't report it. There's a lot they're doing that the British government is not, and they're not even on high alert anymore.
They aren't restricting many activities now, but they act quickly whenever an official case is reported (can't speak for its current spread but no one knows that, I just know I've seen no sign of it). I have heard anecdotes about the odd nightmare quarantine for inbound travellers but for the most part they've got the virus under control and that's through never ever letting up on it, using all of the technology and prevention available to them and having a population willing to be compliant.
I just spent a few days in Italy and was suprised by how different it was to the UK — the airport process, the temperature scanners and enforced scans at supermarkets and shops. Italy obvioiusly struggled massively at the beginning, but it's been impressive to see how much they've turned it around and kept the numbers lower than most of Europe.
People travelling from the UK to Italy now require a negative test upon entry — which can be done at select airports for free. You could potentially get a test quicker (and cheaper than private) by just booking a cheap return flight to Milan than in the UK. Ridiculous.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 9 2020, 05:02 PM
QUOTE(J00psylicious @ Oct 9 2020, 12:50 AM)
While I think education is important I absolutely think health comes first. You only get one shot at that whereas education can be resat or caught up on.
If I'm honest I get worried seeing the attitude otherwise, from people working in healthcare too. The first thing we learnt in first aid was to assure your own safety first as if you go everyone loses their asset.
I guess. But all I’m constantly hearing is how teachers ‘let down’ students over lockdown and how schools are a magical place where the virus just does not transmit and that the mental health of the children is at risk. I barely get a moment to think about myself, the government have decided that it’s worth our sacrifice.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 9 2020, 06:37 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Oct 9 2020, 06:02 PM)
I guess. But all I’m constantly hearing is how teachers ‘let down’ students over lockdown and how schools are a magical place where the virus just does not transmit and that the mental health of the children is at risk. I barely get a moment to think about myself, the government have decided that it’s worth our sacrifice.
How did teachers let students down? Closing schools wasn't their decision. Sadly, it doesn't seem to have taken long for teachers to be blamed again
Posted by: T Boy Oct 9 2020, 06:44 PM
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 9 2020, 07:37 PM)
How did teachers let students down? Closing schools wasn't their decision. Sadly, it doesn't seem to have taken long for teachers to be blamed again
It’s just the way it always is. There’s a vocal minority in the country that will blame teachers and other school staff for everything and completely ignore the fact that we often prioritise our jobs over ourselves.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 9 2020, 09:07 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Oct 9 2020, 07:44 PM)
It’s just the way it always is. There’s a vocal minority in the country that will blame teachers and other school staff for everything and completely ignore the fact that we often prioritise our jobs over ourselves.
Even when I was at school, I got frustrated when teachers got so much criticism. In the 40+ years since then, I think the general quality of teachers has improved significantly so this constant carping annoys me even more.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 11 2020, 09:22 PM
The Tier 3 restrictions look grim. The North is basically rebelling against the Government. And to be honest I can see why, I honestly do not believe these measures will have much effect at all and will do more harm than good in the long term.
The damage was done when Universities went back.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 11 2020, 10:29 PM
But mdh would rather be here than in Germany.
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 12 2020, 10:51 AM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 11 2020, 10:22 PM)
The Tier 3 restrictions look grim. The North is basically rebelling against the Government. And to be honest I can see why, I honestly do not believe these measures will have much effect at all and will do more harm than good in the long term.
Agreed, the additional restrictions will do barely anything.
Posted by: Boo!piter Oct 12 2020, 11:09 AM
The Tier 3 restrictions are basically what's already active in Scotland, no?
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 12 2020, 11:20 AM
QUOTE(Boo!piter @ Oct 12 2020, 12:09 PM)
The Tier 3 restrictions are basically what's already active in Scotland, no?
I think so.
Liverpool looks likely to be first in line for Tier 3.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 12 2020, 11:20 AM
QUOTE(Boo!piter @ Oct 12 2020, 12:09 PM)
The Tier 3 restrictions are basically what's already active in Scotland, no?
No, I think they will completely shut pubs (although resturaunts which allow food will be allowed, which seems daft as Spoons can get around it). And possibly all leisure facilities too. It's a joke and is going to decimate the North.
But I don't think it will have any effect. You've got to solve the problem with young people collectively, be it students or young professionals. Quite simply, it was negligence to encourage people back to shared accommodation.
Posted by: Jack Oct 12 2020, 11:30 AM
Aren't they also putting a ban of travelling in and out of the affected areas? That's pretty much the ONLY new restriction that I agree with!
I think most pubs serve food too now so don't think they will make much difference really. Seems utterly stupid and will force smaller bars which are unable to do so to close completely.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 12 2020, 12:29 PM
Seems to be the major difference that the Scottish gov has been able to scrounge cash to compensate for the loss of trade because they have more fiscal leavers available to them than a council. Without the cash that the Liverpool city region have apparently asked for AND BEEN DENIED. Then this tier 3 is gonna drive a lot of viable businesses into permanent closure
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 12 2020, 02:56 PM
And this 3 tier system that's supposed to make things easier to understand does anything but that.
Posted by: Brett-Butler Oct 12 2020, 03:06 PM
Liverpool going into full lockdown, which affects my brother.
Posted by: Jack Oct 12 2020, 03:09 PM
Good to see Manchester has avoided it at the last minute pretty much but I do really feel for people in Liverpool That can't be easy.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 12 2020, 03:23 PM
The only good thing about the detail from what I can see is that the tiered restrictions take in to effect not only the infection rate, but also the hospital capacity & admissions. Which is the right thing if you have students catching covid purposely but not passing it on to the wider community.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 12 2020, 04:04 PM
Sky News saying there are Covid fears for the Pope, 83, tonight, after 5 members of his close protection service, the Swiss Guard, tested positive.
Posted by: Brett-Butler Oct 12 2020, 04:07 PM
He's only got one lung, so hopefully he hasn't caught it.
Posted by: Boo!piter Oct 12 2020, 04:40 PM
What a coincidence that the North is punished by Southern English politicians while the South of England sits pretty.
This will definitely go down well...
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 12 2020, 04:44 PM
QUOTE(Boo!piter @ Oct 12 2020, 05:40 PM)
What a coincidence that the North is punished by Southern English politicians while the South of England sits pretty.
This will definitely go down well...
It's because the number of cases are higher. Nothing to do with politicians punishing the North.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 12 2020, 04:46 PM
I’m dreading what’ll happen in Wales.
Can hardly fathom the English stuff out right now. I’m still wondering if they’ll announce a circuit breaker before the end of the week.
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 12 2020, 04:46 PM
Don't think anyone is sitting pretty right now. Reckon London will be put in tier 2 which is frustrating as a) I've just gone back to office and b) I'm planning to move flats soon.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 12 2020, 04:53 PM
I think a postcode checker would be best as it's hard to follow the map especially if you're on the border of two colours. Liverpool and NW seems worst. We're medium in East London so no change really.
EDIT. Sorry the tiers will be discussed tomorrow and announced Wed. I was looking at the map of cases.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 12 2020, 04:57 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Oct 12 2020, 05:46 PM)
I’m dreading what’ll happen in Wales.
Can hardly fathom the English stuff out right now. I’m still wondering if they’ll announce a circuit breaker before the end of the week.
I still think they'll close schools next week as well as the following week. Private schools often have two weeks anyway.
Posted by: ВuzzjackHallowee Oct 12 2020, 05:39 PM
QUOTE(Dobbo @ Oct 12 2020, 11:51 AM)
Agreed, the additional restrictions will do barely anything.
I agree too, the people who don't care about Covid will still meet up and have house parties in fact probably more if the official meetup places like pubs are closed.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 12 2020, 06:35 PM
QUOTE(Boo!piter @ Oct 12 2020, 05:40 PM)
What a coincidence that the North is punished by Southern English politicians while the South of England sits pretty.
This will definitely go down well...
They are following the hospital admissions and R Rate so nothing to do with this
Posted by: Rooney Oct 12 2020, 07:38 PM
QUOTE(ВuzzjackHallowee @ Oct 12 2020, 06:39 PM)
I agree too, the people who don't care about Covid will still meet up and have house parties in fact probably more if the official meetup places like pubs are closed.
It doesn't matter what happens when you get idiots like this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-54511643
I am sure a bit of public shaming would soon stop this and others who might be tempted when Twitter and the rest of the country erupts on them via social media.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 12 2020, 07:46 PM
Public shaming, er thanks but no, we had that in April when the Police were chasing an old couple with a drone on the Peak District with the caption 'Is this essential?'. I think I'd rather not go down that route!
Posted by: Rooney Oct 12 2020, 07:52 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 12 2020, 08:46 PM)
Public shaming, er thanks but no, we had that in April when the Police were chasing an old couple with a drone on the Peak District with the caption 'Is this essential?'. I think I'd rather not go down that route!
So how do we contain the problem of many people blatantly flauting the rules? Throwing a 100 person party when you're self isolating with symptoms is criminal. I was half joking by the way.. but I do think it would act somewhat as a deterrent.
Quite simpley I feel some element of sympathy for students but they're a massive problem if you live in a University town/city.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 12 2020, 07:57 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 12 2020, 08:52 PM)
So how do we contain the problem of many people blatantly flauting the rules?
Maybe don't let an MP and a government advisor who broke the rules get away with remaining in public office...
Posted by: Rooney Oct 12 2020, 08:17 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 12 2020, 08:57 PM)
Maybe don't let an MP and a government advisor who broke the rules get away with remaining in public office...
Well I'd quite happily get rid of both. I still find it laughable both did not resign and justified their actions!
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 12 2020, 08:26 PM
^Agreed. Yeah I don't know how to make people follow the rules beyond the threat of fines etc. but you've got to lead from the top in situations like this.
Anyway, here is a Lockdown tier map:
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 12 2020, 09:20 PM
Ridiculous those kids and rightly got fined.
So there’s more people in hospital with C19 today than there was on the first day of lockdown in March.
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 12 2020, 09:33 PM
Must be awful to live in the tier 3 regions!
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 12 2020, 09:50 PM
Apprently SAGE recommended restrictions 3 weeks ago:
QUOTE
The government’s scientific advisers recommended a two-week ‘circuit break’ lockdown three weeks ago in a bid to curtail the spread of Covid -19, official documents show.
Sage told ministers a swathe of interventions would be required to reverse the exponential rise in cases.
The minutes from the 21 September meeting of the group were quietly published just hours after Boris Johnson announced new restrictions, including a a new three tier system for local lockdowns, that appeared to fall short of what Sage suggested.
Even Mr Johnson’s own chief medical officer warned the new measures to be introduced in the most severe cases will not work on their own.
Just hours after they were unveiled by the prime minister, Professor Chris Whitty said he was “not confident” they would be enough to stop the disease spreading.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-sage-lockdown-restrictions-boris-johnson-covid-cases-b997055.html
Posted by: blacksquare Oct 12 2020, 09:56 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 12 2020, 10:50 PM)
Apprently SAGE recommended restrictions 3 weeks ago:
Also this. A shambles.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 12 2020, 10:25 PM
QUOTE(blacksquare @ Oct 12 2020, 10:56 PM)
Also this. A shambles.
Reading this sort of stuff just makes my piss boil. There is no logic to any of these restrictions if people who have a positive result or are waiting on results do not self isolate. It seems reckless to burn our economy down if it's not going to have any effect.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 12 2020, 10:53 PM
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 13 2020, 10:47 AM
Pet peeves during pandemic - when people are on public transport and they go to the trouble of putting a face mask on but have it hanging down round their chin, may as well just remove it mate
Posted by: Brett-Butler Oct 13 2020, 10:59 AM
That, and when people wear masks in shops so they’re allowed in, then don’t cover their nose. Kind of misses the point.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 13 2020, 11:49 AM
QUOTE(Steve201 @ Oct 13 2020, 12:47 PM)
Pet peeves during pandemic - when people are on public transport and they go to the trouble of putting a face mask on but have it hanging down round their chin, may as well just remove it mate
Folk were doing that on the bus yesterday I just don’t see the f***ing point. Why bother at all if it’s gonna be a chin strap you look like a twat.
Contributing to the cities ever climbing number of cases. It’s a joke how selfish some folk are being
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 13 2020, 02:21 PM
I was gonna smack him seriously how much do you have to get it through people’s thick skulls
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 13 2020, 04:20 PM
Hospital admissions continue to climb...
Posted by: Rooney Oct 13 2020, 04:28 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 13 2020, 05:20 PM)
Hospital admissions continue to climb...
Starmer has gone on record now of saying we need a 2-3 week circuit breaker. I feel at this stage it is inevitable and it is probably wise.
I'm not a fan of the restrictions at all and I do agree we need to try and find some normality, but it's clear that we have zero control over the virus at all and all the measures being put in place will have naff all effect. It's better to re-group now and buy ourselves some time until the end of 2020 at least.
I think I remember when the leaks about the circuit breaker came out firstly, Rishi said he would resign and that is what ultimately swayed Johnson
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 13 2020, 04:32 PM
I think it's a bad idea. It'll show the rates yes but we'll be right back to where we were beforehand as soon as its over. A buying time strategy for a silver bullet vaccine which may never come is ludicrous. Not to mention it'll kill off all the remaining businesses within the hospitality industry.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 13 2020, 04:35 PM
I think it is just delaying the inevitable yes, and indeed may delay the second peak into the heart of winter and toward Christmas. The trouble is however, it may become forced upon the government when the capacity of the NHS is pushed to breaking point.
Quite a smart move from Starmer politically however!
Posted by: Hallo'Riheen Oct 13 2020, 04:37 PM
I’ve been seeing the new restrictions as excessive but that death figure IS scary and makes you think. I’ve accepted the new Scottish restrictions are sensible (although central belt restaurants could be kept open outdoors imo) but nothing really seems to be working. A circuit breaker lockdown (provided it is JUST two/three weeks) might be the only option especially with the school holidays.
They really should’ve kept the first lockdown a few weeks longer in the first place
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 13 2020, 04:40 PM
I'm also not at all sure people will be so compliant with another full-scale lockdown. Of course closing pubs etc. limits peoples ability to mix but there's definitely a lot of covid burnout now so people will continue to flout the rules and as has been said, you can't put a police officer on every street and we certainly don't want to turn into a snitch culture.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 13 2020, 04:46 PM
QUOTE(Dobbo @ Oct 13 2020, 05:32 PM)
I think it's a bad idea. It'll show the rates yes but we'll be right back to where we were beforehand as soon as its over. A buying time strategy for a silver bullet vaccine which may never come is ludicrous. Not to mention it'll kill off all the remaining businesses within the hospitality industry.
They have to do something though, the new measures are terrible and if carry on the current trajectory we will be choosing who lives and who dies. I think the problem is that if look at the data and think proactively, most of the country will end up in a very similar state to Merseyside. Whether there is a vaccine or not, there will be something be it mass testing etc. which China are using to control outbreaks. The new tier system will already cripple hospitality, it just doesn't know it yet.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 13 2020, 06:01 PM
Problem is the government don’t understand how a virus works. They just don’t go away that fast. Instead of using the time bought in the Spring through the first lockdown to come up with ways we can live with the virus, they just assumed as numbers went down that we were ‘defeating’ it. Now it looks like all that time was wasted as numbers soar.
I know I’m becoming boring because I just bang on about schools but they had five months to come up with a strategy for schools to return and did nothing- shoved us all in again at close range, a few flimsy rules about masks and sanitisers and then parroted that schools were safe. And I was convinced before the numbers started rising again.
I think they will keep schools open even in a national lockdown so I will barely see the effects of it-except for only having work as a privilege and nothing else. Due to keeping staff safe, the education the children are receiving is less effective as I can no longer monitor their work during lessons. Perhaps if the government had invested money into schools we could be working technology based and this wouldn’t be a problem. But we have had to use our existing budgets for PPE so that wouldn’t have happened.
Currently, I’m glad work is keeping me too busy to pay close attention to the news.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 13 2020, 07:01 PM
Not only do they seem to have little understanding of how viruses work, they don't seem to understand how schools work either. As you say, monitoring students is an important part of teaching. You can't do that if you have to keep at least two metres away from them. Even having a quiet conversation with an individual is impossible at that distance.
They wasted a lot of the lockdown time throwing huge sums of money at a track and trace system that they were told by numerous experts wouldn't work. They finally had to admit it wouldn't work - for the very reason all those experts gave. They finally delivered a privatised app the, misleadingly, carries an NHS label. Initially, that wouldn't accept codes from NHS tests. How on Earth did that get through testing? Testing all formats of data that can be entered is about as basic as it gets.
We all accept that no government is going to get everything right at a time like this. This government has got very little right; all too frequently, the mistakes were easy to avoid if they'd bothered to speak to people with knowledge of the subject/
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 13 2020, 08:29 PM
How long are we giving it until we’re in full national lockdown then?
I say one week
Posted by: Brett-Butler Oct 13 2020, 08:39 PM
I really hope we don't enter a new total national lockdown here. It was hard enough the first time around, especially when you live on your own, and I do worry about how such a full lockdown will affect the mental state of a lot of people - I know I found it hard, and if it wasn't for calls with my family & finding someone during the lockdown I don't think I could have coped. I'm all for mandatory masks & stronger sanctions on those who don't wear masks and keep to social distancing, but I hope that it's not another lockdown.
Posted by: Crypt of the Wombat Oct 13 2020, 09:00 PM
I don't think a short lockdown will solve the problem ultimately, but I'm not sure what else they can do at this point. It's the only way to make people take it seriously again as these new restrictions are doing sod all. Something like Scotland's restrictions on pubs and restaurants seems like the sort of thing that they should be aiming for, it's got to come to a compromise.
Realistically, Universities should've either closed Halls and had online lectures or massively limited living capacities this year, that really was the ultimate problem and yet ofc. they just went with what would keep the landlords happy. Schools certainly had to go back, but again, it could've been planned a lot better.
(Totally agree on the public transport thing btw, especially here in London! I just can't fathom anyone still refusing to wear a mask when they can at this stage)
Posted by: Rooney Oct 13 2020, 09:04 PM
QUOTE(Brightest Blue @ Oct 13 2020, 09:29 PM)
How long are we giving it until we’re in full national lockdown then?
I say one week
I don't think there will be a full national lockdown, we can't afford one. However if we are smart, we could have a 2-3 week circuit breaker with half term which would allow us to re-group. Clearly the major problem is with Test and Trace. We aren't delivering results quick enough and we don't have the the resource to enforce people that are waiting for test results to self isolate.
Honestly, as brutal as it is, if we are serious about controlling the virus we HAVE to lock people down when they are self-isolating. I've seen numerous stories from friends where one person is waiting on a result, still visits the pub and people, ends up spreading to 15-20 people.
I have defended the Government lots of times on here, but the discontent they have given to football/sports fans (can't have 1,000 people in an open air stadium but we can open the Palladium inside, fuking ridiculous), awarding private contracts to Donors instead of utilising PHE and quite frankly not using the summer months to plan effectively for the winter - it's a complete joke. No one is saying it is an easy job as it's not and I can forgive a few errors made at the start as fatal as they turned out to be, but there have been so many daft decisons made that its really going to bite them on their arse.
Posted by: zenon Oct 13 2020, 09:17 PM
Here's how I would do a lockdown.
Local lockdowns only.
Pubs, bars, restaurants, gyms, leisure centres, non-essential shops, public sport, garages, museums, libraries ie. all close.
Schools, universities, colleges and churches remain open.
Sport continues behind closed doors.
People must not leave the area in question unless it is a reasonable excuse.
Restrictions can only be lifted when the areas have gone right down to zero cases, it could take months at least but imo it is the only way.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 13 2020, 09:22 PM
After a say 3 week lockdown will that not mean cases will increase again afterwards? Seems a bit pointless.
The fact the government didn’t get a proper test and trace app sorted quicker is a disgrace for me.
So we have 143 deaths in 24 hours and increasing hospitalisations each day, so is there going to be another 40k deaths over the next few months, I can’t bare thinking about this.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 13 2020, 09:23 PM
The main problem as I see it is that due to ideaology/chumocracy/corruption the Government have ignored better judgement that would have seen investment in a more regional and local test and trace programme, and instead wasted huge sums of money on their mates in the private sector to run an inadequate test and trace operation that can hardly be described as “world-beating”. Because of this even if people did take the advice about self-isolating seriously it would have only a little impact, but as it stands only around 1/5 are.
If that doesn't change, having a national lockdown will not solve anything and potentially cause greater unintended harm. However, because we may at some point move dangerously close to exceeding capacity in the NHS it may become unavoidable.
We can probably manage with a low level of virus in circulation within the community BUT strict adherence to social distancing, working from home, masks etc. and University tuition should have been entirely remote for 2020/21 with NO students in campuses. But like the article I posted in the University funding thread... http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=227675&view=findpost&p=6664703; the virus has exposed brutually what has ALWAYS been the case.
Posted by: Count Olaf Oct 13 2020, 09:23 PM
You could say goodbye to the economy and people’s mental health then if you’re waiting for it to go to 0. It could take years in most areas. That’s not living.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 13 2020, 09:28 PM
QUOTE(Count Olaf @ Oct 13 2020, 10:23 PM)
You could say goodbye to the economy and people’s mental health then if you’re waiting for it to go to 0. It could take years in most areas. That’s not living.
Nobody has argued for that have they? It may have been possible at some point (see: New Zealand) but obviously is impossible now. I think a low level in the community like over the summer (and in parts of the south currently) is the best we can hope for. That could be the best we could achieve for many years. After all, a vaccine seems less likely to be viable (apart from a yearly dose) given there have been cases of https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54512034.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 13 2020, 09:29 PM
QUOTE(zenon @ Oct 13 2020, 10:17 PM)
Here's how I would do a lockdown.
Local lockdowns only.
Pubs, bars, restaurants, gyms, leisure centres, non-essential shops, public sport, garages, museums, libraries ie. all close.
Schools, universities, colleges and churches remain open.
Sport continues behind closed doors.
People must not leave the area in question unless it is a reasonable excuse.
Restrictions can only be lifted when the areas have gone right down to zero cases, it could take months at least but imo it is the only way.
Good luck with persuading people to wait until cases are down to zero while other areas are still not under lockdown because the numbers were never deemed to be high enough.
The restrictions on leaving an area have been done in many countries around the world. The difference is that most democratic countries have a far more regional structure than the UK. They have regional governments with a lot of power. As a result, people identify with their region. Here, we have local governments with almost no power at all, so people don't take much notice of what the leaders say. Indeed, most people have no idea who their local council leader even is.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 13 2020, 09:34 PM
QUOTE(Count Olaf @ Oct 13 2020, 10:23 PM)
You could say goodbye to the economy and people’s mental health then if you’re waiting for it to go to 0. It could take years in most areas. That’s not living.
The economy would be pretty screwed if people’s health isn’t good either and people are self isolating
Posted by: Count Olaf Oct 13 2020, 09:34 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 13 2020, 10:28 PM)
Nobody has argued for that have they? It may have been possible at some point (see: New Zealand) but obviously is impossible now. I think a low level in the community like over the summer (and in parts of the south currently) is the best we can hope for. That could be the best we could achieve for many years. After all, a vaccine seems less likely to be viable (apart from a yearly dose) given there have been cases of https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54512034.
Sorry it was bad timing of posting! It was in reference to zenon’s post that Suedehead has quoted above. Will teach me to quote next time!
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 13 2020, 09:34 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 13 2020, 10:23 PM)
The main problem as I see it is that due to ideaology/chumocracy/corruption the Government have ignored better judgement that would have seen investment in a more regional and local test and trace programme, and instead wasted huge sums of money on their mates in the private sector to run an inadequate test and trace operation that can hardly be described as “world-beating”. Because of this even if people did take the advice about self-isolating seriously it would have only a little impact, but as it stands only around 1/5 are.
If that doesn't change, having a national lockdown will not solve anything and potentially cause greater unintended harm. However, because we may at some point move dangerously close to exceeding capacity in the NHS it may become unavoidable.
We can probably manage with a low level of virus in circulation within the community BUT strict adherence to social distancing, working from home, masks etc. and University tuition should have been entirely remote for 2020/21 with NO students in campuses. But like the article I posted in the University funding thread... http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=227675&view=findpost&p=6664703; the virus has exposed brutually what has ALWAYS been the case.
Local authorities have been saying for months that they should be running the track and trace programme. They all have staff who are used to doing that for STIs. They have staff who know the local area. However, we have a government that treats local government with even more disdain than previous governments have done. They also have a ideological fixation on the idea that the private sector is always the best solution. The last six months has shown how catastrophically wrong that assumption can be,
Posted by: Envoirment Oct 13 2020, 10:01 PM
The UK's situation can be solved quite quickly/readily, but the government refuse to do the right thing and instead continue to act in the interests of their friends/donors and such. For as long as the current incompetent government are in power, things aren't going to get much better. In fact things will likely get a lot worse once we're in the middle of winter.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 13 2020, 10:51 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 13 2020, 10:28 PM)
Nobody has argued for that have they? It may have been possible at some point (see: New Zealand) but obviously is impossible now. I think a low level in the community like over the summer (and in parts of the south currently) is the best we can hope for. That could be the best we could achieve for many years. After all, a vaccine seems less likely to be viable (apart from a yearly dose) given there have been cases of https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54512034.
I think that is very bleak though and that re-infection case is complete hyperbole. You could have an article saying 10m people have not been reinfected either. It's way too early to start making these types of calls. My friend has suspected Covid in April before mass testing. Living with 2 friends both attended same social events, those 2 test positive and she tests negative. There's clearly going to be some community transmission going forward in low levels, but evidence points towards there being either a vaccine to protect the vulnerable at least.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 14 2020, 07:50 AM
QUOTE(Envoirment @ Oct 13 2020, 11:01 PM)
The UK's situation can be solved quite quickly/readily, but the government refuse to do the right thing and instead continue to act in the interests of their friends/donors and such. For as long as the current incompetent government are in power, things aren't going to get much better. In fact things will likely get a lot worse once we're in the middle of winter.
How can it be solved quite quickly and readily?
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 14 2020, 07:56 AM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 13 2020, 10:04 PM)
Honestly, as brutal as it is, if we are serious about controlling the virus we HAVE to lock people down when they are self-isolating. I've seen numerous stories from friends where one person is waiting on a result, still visits the pub and people, ends up spreading to 15-20 people.
I read yesterday that in a survey less than a third of those who are supposed to self-isolate bother to do so. They need to go to work or to take kids to school or just want to socialise etc. If they're not too ill they don't see the point in isolating. So there's a big part of the problem. You can't force people to self-isolate really.
Posted by: Brightest Blue Oct 14 2020, 10:21 AM
NI have announced a 4 week circuit breaker
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 14 2020, 11:36 AM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 14 2020, 08:56 AM)
I read yesterday that in a survey less than a third of those who are supposed to self-isolate bother to do so. They need to go to work or to take kids to school or just want to socialise etc. If they're not too ill they don't see the point in isolating. So there's a big part of the problem. You can't force people to self-isolate really.
If people chose to do this even with symptoms as you say then it’s the height of ignorance and selfishness after 8 months of a pandemic where they clearly now know the risks. They should be sought out by the law and fined. But I would like to see your ‘source’ here Chris.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 14 2020, 11:56 AM
QUOTE(Steve201 @ Oct 14 2020, 12:36 PM)
If people chose to do this even with symptoms as you say then it’s the height of ignorance and selfishness after 8 months of a pandemic where they clearly now know the risks. They should be sought out by the law and fined. But I would like to see your ‘source’ here Chris.
I'm pretty sure it is true, I think it has come from some of the ONS stuff. It's a huge problem as the current Test & Trace does not find everyone and I don't think they are hard enough on people who are positive.
Anyway from PMQs today, seems this Tiered system will be rolled out. I still say that from Boris' talk a circuit breaker feels inevitable. More and more countries are doing it.
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 14 2020, 12:20 PM
Public trust and compliance was eroded when Cummings remained in position. Only ever going to go downhill from there.
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉʍ Oct 14 2020, 12:49 PM
I read that as ‘in prison’ first. Brain reads what it wants to read I guess.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 14 2020, 03:03 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 14 2020, 08:56 AM)
I read yesterday that in a survey less than a third of those who are supposed to self-isolate bother to do so. They need to go to work or to take kids to school or just want to socialise etc. If they're not too ill they don't see the point in isolating. So there's a big part of the problem. You can't force people to self-isolate really.
It's actually less than this, 20%.
You can't blame the public though, some people really just can't do so easily, and then there are the massively unhelpful signals being given out by allowing MPs and government advisors to carry on despite breaking the same rules.
Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Oct 14 2020, 03:04 PM
QUOTE(Dobbo @ Oct 14 2020, 01:20 PM)
Public trust and compliance was eroded when Cummings remained in position. Only ever going to go downhill from there.
Totally. What remote credibility this government may have had in anyone's eyes was diminished when they didn't sack him.
Posted by: blacksquare Oct 14 2020, 05:15 PM
More shameful cronyism — and all on a failing system. I don’t want to hear about what the country can and cannot afford when this government continues to spend millions (and beyond) on their friends. During a pandemic.
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉʍ Oct 14 2020, 08:15 PM
I see they were taking notes from Russia. A for effort, D for letting those documents get leaked. 
Posted by: Jack Oct 14 2020, 09:18 PM
Manchester pretty much confirmed for tier 3 and London for tier 2 .
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 14 2020, 09:27 PM
QUOTE(blacksquare @ Oct 14 2020, 06:15 PM)
More shameful cronyism — and all on a failing system. I don’t want to hear about what the country can and cannot afford when this government continues to spend millions (and beyond) on their friends. During a pandemic.
Disgrace
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 15 2020, 08:42 AM
This is disgusting. He should be fined heavily or better still imprisoned.
From Sky News.
TESCO staff watched in horror as a man went on a rampage through the aisles in a hissy fit after 'being asked to wear a mask.'
The man was filmed running amok - pulling crisp and popcorn packets to the ground at the Ealing store in London.
It is understood the customer had gone into the store last month without a mask, with staff asking him to put on a face covering or leave.
But instead the man went wild - shouting and swearing.
He then stormed down the confectionary aisle throwing anything he could reach on to the floor.
Hundreds of packets of crisps, popcorn and chocolate ended up on the ground and were kicked around by the man.
In the video, shocked staff in protective gear can be seen standing at the end of each aisle while customers watched on in horror.
Met Police confirmed they had been called to the Uxbridge Road store in Ealing about 9pm on September 22 to reports of anti-social behaviour.
They said: "Officers arrested a man on suspicion of criminal damage. He was further arrested on suspicion of actual bodily harm in relation to an alleged assault (minor injury) on a staff member at the store."
Soren Birch of Greenford was then bailed with conditions to appear at Uxbridge Magistrates' Court on 25 November to answer charges of intending to destroy or damage property, and assault by beating.
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉʍ Oct 15 2020, 08:56 AM
That’s psycho. Things that blacksquare posted are disgusting.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 15 2020, 09:06 AM
So here in London we're in Tier 2 from midnight tomorrow. No household mixing indoors. The wife won't be happy as she can't go to her friend's.
Gt. Manchester and Lancashire heading for Tier 3 soon.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 15 2020, 09:34 AM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 15 2020, 10:06 AM)
So here in London we're in Tier 2 from midnight tomorrow. No household mixing indoors. The wife won't be happy as she can't go to her friend's.
Gt. Manchester and Lancashire heading for Tier 3 soon.
It's alright, it will be a circuit breaker the week after. They are delaying the inevitable.
The problem is loads of people will still continue to do things. Think it will take a couple of weeks for it to work out with the public how perilous the situation is (probs with myself too). We've gone from having 3 months where Covid isn't here to pretty much a lockdown again. This winter is going to be bleak. The longer term both physical and mental effects of Covid are going to be with us for a generation.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 15 2020, 10:23 AM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 15 2020, 10:06 AM)
So here in London we're in Tier 2 from midnight tomorrow. No household mixing indoors. The wife won't be happy as she can't go to her friend's.
Gt. Manchester and Lancashire heading for Tier 3 soon.
So the government's response to the scenes of people in Liverpool making use of their last opportunity to go to the pub is to allow Londoners to do exactly the same. On a Friday night.
Posted by: Jack Oct 15 2020, 10:26 AM
Manchester's mayor is still pushing back on Tier 3 restrictions without any viable financial support available. Good on him!
I expect we still will go to Tier 3 but it'll hopefully come with some additional financial support ....maybe.
Posted by: ВuzzjackHallowee Oct 15 2020, 10:30 AM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 15 2020, 09:42 AM)
This is disgusting. He should be fined heavily or breter still imrisoned.
From Sky News.
TESCO staff watched in horror as a man went on a rampage through the aisles in a hissy fit after 'being asked to wear a mask.'
The man was filmed running amok - pulling crisp and popcorn packets to the ground at the Ealing store in London.
It is understood the customer had gone into the store last month without a mask, with staff asking him to put on a face covering or leave.
But instead the man went wild - shouting and swearing.
He then stormed down the confectionary aisle throwing anything he could reach on to the floor.
Hundreds of packets of crisps, popcorn and chocolate ended up on the ground and were kicked around by the man.
In the video, shocked staff in protective gear can be seen standing at the end of each aisle while customers watched on in horror.
Met Police confirmed they had been called to the Uxbridge Road store in Ealing about 9pm on September 22 to reports of anti-social behaviour.
They said: "Officers arrested a man on suspicion of criminal damage. He was further arrested on suspicion of actual bodily harm in relation to an alleged assault (minor injury) on a staff member at the store."
Soren Birch of Greenford was then bailed with conditions to appear at Uxbridge Magistrates' Court on 25 November to answer charges of intending to destroy or damage property, and assault by beating.
Unfortunately that's the sort of thing shop workers have to potentially put up with if they try and enforce mask wearing
Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 15 2020, 11:24 AM
Yay Essex up to Tier 2 
Posted by: Rooney Oct 15 2020, 11:39 AM
QUOTE(ElectroBoy @ Oct 15 2020, 12:24 PM)
Yay Essex up to Tier 2
It's alright I'm up to Tier 2 now. Our main problem is students, which in turn has began to spread to the community. There might as well be a circuit breaker when every major city in the UK is under restrictions.
Posted by: Jack Oct 15 2020, 01:04 PM
All the Londoners moaning about going into Tier 2 when literally the whole of the North have been in it (mostly) for two months or so now and don't care then. The selfishness and entitlement jumped out!
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 15 2020, 01:12 PM
QUOTE(blacksquare @ Oct 14 2020, 07:15 PM)
More shameful cronyism — and all on a failing system. I don’t want to hear about what the country can and cannot afford when this government continues to spend millions (and beyond) on their friends. During a pandemic.
This is horrifying. Test and Trace is a shambles.
That France said the UKs was better has me seriously concerned about just how bad the French system is!!
Posted by: Rooney Oct 15 2020, 02:49 PM
QUOTE(Jack @ Oct 15 2020, 02:04 PM)
All the Londoners moaning about going into Tier 2 when literally the whole of the North have been in it (mostly) for two months or so now and don't care then. The selfishness and entitlement jumped out!
Yeah, but isn't this the problem. The restrictions have not worked in the North West, but apparently they're now going to work for everyone else?
Honestly think until you close Universities and schools we're always going to be fighting a losing battle. It sucks, but it's the truth.
Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 15 2020, 03:03 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 15 2020, 03:49 PM)
Yeah, but isn't this the problem. The restrictions have not worked in the North West, but apparently they're now going to work for everyone else?
Agreed; any measures that Twat Hancock spoke about today have already failed elsewhere.
To be honest everywhere is f***ed no matter what is done until there is a vaccine. If you close everywhere the economy is f***ed, if you leave places open then the virus spreads more. However whilst I don't think there are easy answers, the Government just seem to be making everything worse by messing about with restrictions that have failed, going against what the scientists have said,
I guess they need to work out - if they want to keep the economy going then they shield the vulnerable and people with pre-exisiting conditions and focus on that, then let everyone get on with their lives and just let the virus spread until you get the 'herd immunity'
If they want to stop the spread of the virus, then they need to follow the scientists more and lock everywhere down.
Whatever they're doing at the moment is just pointless waffle which isn't helping anyone. This would be a sh!t time for a good government, let alone this bunch of clowns that don't know what they're doing
Posted by: Jack Oct 15 2020, 03:23 PM
Well yeah, so I don't see quite why people moan about it. They haven't imposed or enforced ANYTHING in Manchester. I quite often see people meeting up in groups outside of their households all the time. The most you will get is "are you all from the same household?" at a restaurant and that's it, I'm honestly for it being enforced and stricter! I just wish the government wouldn't be such pussies about it all and stop with "guidance" and "advice" and just be very very clear. The communication has also been shocking, it started off fairly well back in March but now it's open to interpretation and when that happens no one is going to pay attention. The only solution at this point is a national lockdown I fear.
In regards to my previous post, the point I was trying to make is it seemed people only started to care when it was London being affected. From some people it seemed like an entitled view that London should never be affected from tweets and stuff I've seen. Maybe that's just me, but it's annoying to see and comes across as selfish.
Posted by: Botchia Oct 15 2020, 03:28 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 15 2020, 03:49 PM)
Yeah, but isn't this the problem. The restrictions have not worked in the North West, but apparently they're now going to work for everyone else?
Honestly think until you close Universities and schools we're always going to be fighting a losing battle. It sucks, but it's the truth.
The fact that the second wave coincided exactly with the re-opening of schools and universities isn't a coincidence (particularly with regards to universities)...
Posted by: Rooney Oct 15 2020, 03:38 PM
QUOTE(Jack @ Oct 15 2020, 04:23 PM)
Well yeah, so I don't see quite why people moan about it. They haven't imposed or enforced ANYTHING in Manchester. I quite often see people meeting up in groups outside of their households all the time. The most you will get is "are you all from the same household?" at a restaurant and that's it, I'm honestly for it being enforced and stricter! I just wish the government wouldn't be such pussies about it all and stop with "guidance" and "advice" and just be very very clear. The communication has also been shocking, it started off fairly well back in March but now it's open to interpretation and when that happens no one is going to pay attention. The only solution at this point is a national lockdown I fear.
In regards to my previous post, the point I was trying to make is it seemed people only started to care when it was London being affected. From some people it seemed like an entitled view that London should never be affected from tweets and stuff I've seen. Maybe that's just me, but it's annoying to see and comes across as selfish.
Which is why these measures are complete rubbish. If everyone stuck to the guidelines then we would be fine, but people don't as as long as you have students about you're always going to have the problem made worse. This isn't to say local people aren't part of the problem too of course, but added with tens of thousands of students all in one situation it makes it worse. Lots of problems to this of course, conspiracy theorists, the Government, the media. It's turned regular thinking people mad as everyone just wants life back to normal.
As shite as it is, I'd much rather a much harder and more enforceable lockdown/circuit breaker now then have these silly measures in place for months which don't reduce the R rate, are more costly to businesses and increase people's mental health woes.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 15 2020, 03:49 PM
A gym is refusing to close and will fight it's corner in court.
From Sky News.
A Merseyside gym which stayed open despite new coronavirus restrictions has been fined £1,000 by police.
Officers had to visit Body Tech Fitness in Moreton, Wirral, twice on Wednesday - following new Tier 3 restrictions came into force which forced the closure of gyms and betting shops.
After the new rules for the Liverpool City Region were announced, owner Nick Whitcombe said on his Instagram page the gym would be staying open "for our members mental and physical well-being".
Police visited the gym on Wednesday and told it to close but had to return later that day to find it was still open, so issued a £1,000 fine.
A Gofundme page set up to help the gym with any legal costs has raised more than £24,000.
Posted by: Jack Oct 15 2020, 04:00 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 15 2020, 04:38 PM)
Which is why these measures are complete rubbish. If everyone stuck to the guidelines then we would be fine, but people don't as as long as you have students about you're always going to have the problem made worse. This isn't to say local people aren't part of the problem too of course, but added with tens of thousands of students all in one situation it makes it worse. Lots of problems to this of course, conspiracy theorists, the Government, the media. It's turned regular thinking people mad as everyone just wants life back to normal.
As shite as it is, I'd much rather a much harder and more enforceable lockdown/circuit breaker now then have these silly measures in place for months which don't reduce the R rate, are more costly to businesses and increase people's mental health woes.
Yeah I honestly cant see any other solution, a enforced national lockdown to coincide with half term would be ideal. We could hopefully get Track & Trace back to working order....well better than it is now and maybe if a clear and concise message was broadcast highlighting the reasoning and implications of not adhering to the rules, people would abide more.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 15 2020, 04:11 PM
QUOTE(Jack @ Oct 15 2020, 05:00 PM)
Yeah I honestly cant see any other solution, a enforced national lockdown to coincide with half term would be ideal. We could hopefully get Track & Trace back to working order....well better than it is now and maybe if a clear and concise message was broadcast highlighting the reasoning and implications of not adhering to the rules, people would abide more.
The Government simply need to hand Track & Trace over to local PHE. Where I am Track & Trace reaches 70% of people, but we have started a local Track & Trace and it picks up 98% cases. The only problem is they only have funding for Monday-Friday.
Clear as mud we had a problem in the North West when restrictions were lifted too soon. Then for a lot of the rest of the country, of course the infection rate increased with pubs, gyms etc. re-opening - but we expected that But universities and schools going back (at least with schools there is some form of thought gone in the process) has just led to complete loss of control, which has now spread in to the community. I'm an advocate of a 2-3 week circuit breaker as long ad the Government sort their shit out, as quite simply they have failed us.
Posted by: blacksquare Oct 15 2020, 04:13 PM
QUOTE(Jack @ Oct 15 2020, 05:00 PM)
Yeah I honestly cant see any other solution, a enforced national lockdown to coincide with half term would be ideal. We could hopefully get Track & Trace back to working order....well better than it is now and maybe if a clear and concise message was broadcast highlighting the reasoning and implications of not adhering to the rules, people would abide more.
This is the worrying thing — I wouldn't be surprised if they just closed things for two-three weeks and hoped that was enough, without really focusing on what
they need to fix.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 15 2020, 04:35 PM
QUOTE(blacksquare @ Oct 15 2020, 05:13 PM)
This is the worrying thing — I wouldn't be surprised if they just closed things for two-three weeks and hoped that was enough, without really focusing on what they need to fix.
Apparently the council leader for Manchester has been told by Government advisors have admitted this Tier plan won't even work.
Honestly I just don't get it - cites like Leeds, London, Manchester, Newcastle, York, Birmingham - are pretty much the hub and economic heartbeat of the country. Yet these measures don't go far enough. Probably trying to flock to their core voters who serve 3 jam scones a day to Brenda, David and Richard in Chessington.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 15 2020, 05:52 PM
A circuit breaker is inevitable. The Welsh government helpfully announced today that they will be announcing one. Probably not until next week which means they’re hoping to start it with half term the week after. England will be planning the same but are using the tier system to stall for time.
Schools seem to be the key issue and the hill in which all UK governments have chosen to die on. The circuit breaker was recommended almost a month ago but they’ve waited so that they can say they got through half a term at school. The virus hasn’t been keeping to the academic timetable. There’s even talk of not closing schools and universities during one of these which is madness and won’t work.
The fact is, they need to rethink how education establishments can work to help slow the virus spread. In Wales we opened part time to students in July and it wasn’t perfect but it really worked. They had months to figure something out but they through us all back it and hoped for the best. What’s happened to universities is just complete idiocy.
Schools came back after months off, they will be able to do so after a couple of weeks break. I’m actually up for frequent but short circuit breakers if that’s what it takes. I’m not up for another months long lockdown.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 15 2020, 05:53 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 15 2020, 04:49 PM)
A gym is refusing to close and will fight it's corner in court.
From Sky News.
A Merseyside gym which stayed open despite new coronavirus restrictions has been fined £1,000 by police.
Officers had to visit Body Tech Fitness in Moreton, Wirral, twice on Wednesday - following new Tier 3 restrictions came into force which forced the closure of gyms and betting shops.
After the new rules for the Liverpool City Region were announced, owner Nick Whitcombe said on his Instagram page the gym would be staying open "for our members mental and physical well-being".
Police visited the gym on Wednesday and told it to close but had to return later that day to find it was still open, so issued a £1,000 fine.
A Gofundme page set up to help the gym with any legal costs has raised more than £24,000.
What a joker like the cheek to use the old ‘for the well-being of my customers mental and physical health’ too during a pandemic. Nothing at all to do with him wanting to make money or anything.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 15 2020, 05:55 PM
QUOTE(blacksquare @ Oct 15 2020, 05:13 PM)
This is the worrying thing — I wouldn't be surprised if they just closed things for two-three weeks and hoped that was enough, without really focusing on what they need to fix.
Indeed like we had a 2-3 month lockdown from March and it still came back afterwards so test and trace working is central to stopping it spread!
Posted by: T Boy Oct 15 2020, 05:58 PM
QUOTE(Steve201 @ Oct 15 2020, 06:53 PM)
What a joker like the cheek to use the old ‘for the well-being of my customers mental and physical health’ too during a pandemic. Nothing at all to do with him wanting to make money or anything.
Though I’m sure he does still want to make money, please don’t minimise the importance of gyms for mental and physical health. I suffered greatly without my gym for five months and I’m already dreading its closure again.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 15 2020, 07:59 PM
I didn’t mean to minimise it sorry about that.
I’m more of an introvert and would rather exercise outdoors walking etc than being stuck in a gym but that’s me just thinking of my own views.
Posted by: *Tim Oct 15 2020, 11:19 PM
Why are the UKstudents to blame for everything while in Belgium and The Netherlands they are only partially part of the problem? Are y'all that attached to your homes? I haven't seen my parents sinds mid augustus just because of the possible risk...
Posted by: Rooney Oct 16 2020, 12:04 AM
QUOTE(*Tim @ Oct 16 2020, 12:19 AM)
Why are the UKstudents to blame for everything while in Belgium and The Netherlands they are only partially part of the problem? Are y'all that attached to your homes? I haven't seen my parents sinds mid augustus just because of the possible risk...
They are not the full problem, but they are a major part. Literally every major University city has had an increase in cases, certainly where I am 80% of the corona cases are related to the University boroughs. And it's the same across the North too - Knowsley, Fallowfield, Headingley..
No one has come up with a solution to the problem when they all bugger off back home for Christmas and then back again in January. I'm sure it will be self isolate for 2 weeks before travelling home though, which will do a fat lot of good.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 16 2020, 07:36 AM
I don't think the students are the main problem but just one of them, along with pubs, workplaces, people partying and people not adhering to the rules.
Wife's employer's brother is in hospital with it. May have caught it from one of his bridge students. I said I hope they've not seen him recently and caught it then passed it to her. She says they haven't. He's got much worse the last two days.
Posted by: blacksquare Oct 16 2020, 10:17 AM
QUOTE(Iz~ @ Oct 16 2020, 06:44 AM)
Tories in unsurprising support of child malnutrition as they reject Marcus Rashford's call for free school meals to be extended over the winter holidays, guess there's no way they can make sure one of their friends ends up with millions by doing it so...
Serco aren't cheap, but fortunately their business model isn't dependent on things going tits up...
Well done to them and their shareholders.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 16 2020, 10:21 AM
QUOTE(blacksquare @ Oct 16 2020, 11:17 AM)
Well done to them and their shareholders.
Trebles all round I think.
Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 16 2020, 10:23 AM
I guess Serco really don't care, but hopefully the social media Gods have something to do to the likes of Harding and the company for wasting public money and then paying out to shareholders. w*n**rs.
Lancashire is moving to Tier 3, but guess what.. they have negotiated their own deal AND gyms can stay open. No wonder Greater Manchester are so pissed off and the Government are throwing the line that it is down to Party Politics.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 16 2020, 10:30 AM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 16 2020, 11:23 AM)
Lancashire is moving to Tier 3, but guess what.. they have negotiated their own deal AND gyms can stay open. No wonder Greater Manchester are so pissed off and the Government are throwing the line that it is down to Party Politics.
Updated map:
Cases per/100K in each Tier.
Note that one of the two highest data points in Tier 1 is EXETER with ~300 cases per 100K.
Nottingham is the data point way above everything in Tier 2.
Posted by: blacksquare Oct 16 2020, 10:41 AM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 16 2020, 11:23 AM)
Lancashire is moving to Tier 3, but guess what.. they have negotiated their own deal AND gyms can stay open. No wonder Greater Manchester is so pissed off and the Government are throwing the line that it is down to Party Politics.
These bespoke negotiations seem very odd to me — why are gyms open in Lancashire but not Liverpool? You would think the goal of a tier system is to make things consistent and straightforward...
Posted by: Rooney Oct 16 2020, 11:04 AM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 16 2020, 11:30 AM)
Note that one of the two highest data points in Tier 1 is EXETER with ~300 cases per 100K.
Nottingham is the data point way above everything in Tier 2.
Oh look - another University City! - I don't think Bristol is too far behind. If you just locked down one part of the City and enforced it you could probably at least control the spread. Ethically, not the best, but this is how most other countries have contained the spread.
QUOTE(blacksquare @ Oct 16 2020, 11:41 AM)
These bespoke negotiations seem very odd to me — why are gyms open in Lancashire but not Liverpool? You would think the goal of a tier system is to make things consistent and straightforward...
It is pretty confusing. I mean what's to stop someone from Merseyside now signing up to a gym in Lancashire? Don't get me wrong, I think gyms should be open still if its not spreading there as I believe similar to T Boy the benefits far outweight the risks.
Posted by: Connor. Oct 16 2020, 11:52 AM
Here in Essex, we have parts of the county still in Tier 1. As ours was voluntary it can only affect areas that are part of the Essex County Council. Southend and Thurrock have unitary councils so aren’t included yet the areas in between both are so nothing to stop people from going to either of these areas. Not that the Essex area has technically reached the tier threshold for tier 2 but doesn’t really make sense.
Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 16 2020, 12:56 PM
QUOTE(Connor. @ Oct 16 2020, 12:52 PM)
Here in Essex, we have parts of the county still in Tier 1. As ours was voluntary it can only affect areas that are part of the Essex County Council. Southend and Thurrock have unitary councils so aren’t included yet the areas in between both are so nothing to stop people from going to either of these areas. Not that the Essex area has technically reached the tier threshold for tier 2 but doesn’t really make sense.
Yeah its odd - in fact the whole Tier system is just bollocks.
The Governments response is just bollocks.
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 16 2020, 01:01 PM
I'll tell you something - there are gonna be some absolute SCENES in the capital tonight. Think that Liverpool clip and times it by a thousand.
Posted by: Botchia Oct 16 2020, 01:13 PM
QUOTE(blacksquare @ Oct 16 2020, 11:41 AM)
These bespoke negotiations seem very odd to me — why are gyms open in Lancashire but not Liverpool? You would think the goal of a tier system is to make things consistent and straightforward...
I can't at this government, the whole point of their tier system is to make it straightforward and avoid the bespoke restrictions for individual areas
Posted by: Crypt of the Wombat Oct 16 2020, 01:41 PM
The Tier System is pointless and purely a delaying strategy so it looks like they're doing something. Next week is the last week of term and I'm near certain that by the end of it, we would go into a short lockdown for 2-3 weeks, there's simply no other way to relieve the hospitals at this point.
Plus if there's one thing that I will give Boris credit for being good at, it's making a u-turn.
Posted by: Botchia Oct 16 2020, 01:44 PM
I see Downing Street has scheduled a briefing and press conference unexpectedly at 4pm today, though, judging by the last couple it probably won't be anything we don't already know.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 16 2020, 02:18 PM
QUOTE(Botchia @ Oct 16 2020, 02:44 PM)
I see Downing Street has scheduled a briefing and press conference unexpectedly at 4pm today, though, judging by the last couple it probably won't be anything we don't already know.
Probably just to reaffirm the severity of the situation. They probably need 2-3 a week.
I still think they are just waiting to see if they need a circuit breaker. But the whole country needs one to be honest. There is some stuff out today that a vaccine is 50/50 for December, so I guess we just need to stall time as much as we can really.
Posted by: Count Olaf Oct 16 2020, 03:49 PM
They seem to have suggested a two week Circuit Breaker will no longer be effective as they had suggested it in September to bring levels back down to August level so they could control it better.
Sounds more and more like prioritising landlords and sending uni students back has proven to be a disaster. I’m not saying they’re the only cause but it’s certainly helped speed up the number of infections.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 16 2020, 03:58 PM
QUOTE(Count Olaf @ Oct 16 2020, 04:49 PM)
They seem to have suggested a two week Circuit Breaker will no longer be effective as they had suggested it in September to bring levels back down to August level so they could control it better.
Sounds more and more like prioritising landlords and sending uni students back has proven to be a disaster. I’m not saying they’re the only cause but it’s certainly helped speed up the number of infections.
This was a PR press conference in my opinion - one to get Greater Manchester to curve, two to stress the severity to people to abide my the measures and three, to tell people they don't want a national circuit breaker but that "nothing is out of the question". That smells like a political circuit breaker to me.
Posted by: Jack Oct 16 2020, 04:02 PM
What actually is the likelihood of us having a circuit breaker lockdown now then? I've seen people say it will almost definitely happen next Friday to others saying it's off the cards and the government would never do it. Ugh.
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉʍ Oct 16 2020, 04:14 PM
QUOTE(Botchia @ Oct 16 2020, 04:44 PM)
I see Downing Street has scheduled a briefing and press conference unexpectedly at 4pm today, though, judging by the last couple it probably won't be anything we don't already know.
Wait. No warning at least 5 days in advance for The S*n to be able to speculate for an entire week what they are going to announce?!
Posted by: T Boy Oct 16 2020, 05:16 PM
It’s definitely happening, they just need to wait until they’ve done a whole half term in schools. All the politics is about schools, guys. At least England are pretending they’re still thinking about it. Wales have announced that the will announce one over the next few days. If it’s that urgent, why not start now? Because schools.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 16 2020, 09:50 PM
QUOTE(Jack @ Oct 16 2020, 05:02 PM)
What actually is the likelihood of us having a circuit breaker lockdown now then? I've seen people say it will almost definitely happen next Friday to others saying it's off the cards and the government would never do it. Ugh.
A circuit breaker doesn't really effect us though that are already facing Tier 2 restrictions. I suspect the likelihood is quite high, but I don't suspect they will make a decision until Wednesday/Thursday next week. I don't think they will do it unless the data justifies it- but it doesn't take a genius to work out the trajectory for the rest of the country for the next 2-3 weeks. I do think the whole thing is pointless unless people tweak their behaviour tho.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 17 2020, 05:03 AM
The 'spike' in Essex is likely due to universities too.
The decision to allow students into halls really was a shitshow but we are where we are.
How different European countries have handled the Covid-19 global pandemic.
Sweden stands out, it has had much less of an economic hit but consequently a much larger casulty rate than neighbouring Norway and Finland. The UK and Spain are pretty much uniquely bad in having had a huge economic hit AND very high casulty rates..
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 17 2020, 08:44 AM
My lifelong friend's dad has died from it, 88. He'd gone in to hospital with chest pains and caught it in there. I wouldn't go near a hospital now unless it was an absolute emergency.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 17 2020, 05:28 PM
So the rumour going around now is that Wales will go into a circuit breaker at 6pm on Friday 23rd October and remain in one until 00:01am on Monday 9th November. Schools still haven’t been decided with some, mainly primary, expected to return as normal on 2nd November.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 18 2020, 11:40 AM
I've finally found an https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/local that has the regional and local data breakdown (Note to UKGov: why the hell aren't you producing this sort of website??)
Below is a breakdown of local cases in Exeter from the last three months. The red line is when school term began in Devon. The orange band gives the period when students 'staggered' their arrival to Exeter University.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions...
Posted by: T Boy Oct 18 2020, 01:19 PM
I still cannot understand how they didn’t think universities returning would blow up in their face. Yes, of course everyone wants money, but it’s such a daft thing to do.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 18 2020, 02:02 PM
QUOTE(T Boy @ Oct 18 2020, 02:19 PM)
I still cannot understand how they didn’t think universities returning would blow up in their face. Yes, of course everyone wants money, but it’s such a daft thing to do.
Many Tory donors are private landlord companies who have an interest in university towns filling up their HMOs
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 18 2020, 02:30 PM
From Manchester Evening News: Someone is not happy.
As Andy Burnham continues to lead a Greater Manchester stand-off with government over a Tier 3 lockdown, North-South tensions are simmering.
The Mayor is refusing to accept the region being pushed into the strictest category of measures to contain the spread of coronavirus without better financial support.
Thousands of businesses are already suffering having endured extra restrictions in the region for almost three months.
While others, including Lancashire and Liverpool, have accepted the government's demands, Greater Manchester is still holding out.
The dispute has now made national headlines for several days and the region's stance appears to have ruffled some feathers.
Staff from Manchester bar 'Three Little Words' appeared on ITV News last night to explain how Tier 3 would affect them.
In response, an irate southerner, identified only as 'Lynn', penned an foul-mouthed message to the bar telling people in Manchester not to venture south.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 18 2020, 02:54 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 18 2020, 03:30 PM)
In response, an irate southerner, identified only as 'Lynn', penned an foul-mouthed message to the bar telling people in Manchester not to venture south.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 18 2020, 02:58 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 18 2020, 12:40 PM)
I've finally found an https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/local that has the regional and local data breakdown (Note to UKGov: why the hell aren't you producing this sort of website??)
Below is a breakdown of local cases in Exeter from the last three months. The red line is when school term began in Devon. The orange band gives the period when students 'staggered' their arrival to Exeter University.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions...
It doesn't take a genius - think of all the places right now suffering - major University - Durham, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburugh, Manchester, Lancaster, York, Leeds, Preston, London. Bristol and Exeter are not too far behind either and can probably bet Norwich, Cambridge and Oxford too. Hate to be the one to say it but students WERE/ARE the major problem.
Posted by: Oliver Oct 18 2020, 02:59 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 18 2020, 12:40 PM)
I've finally found an https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/local that has the regional and local data breakdown (Note to UKGov: why the hell aren't you producing this sort of website??)
Below is a breakdown of local cases in Exeter from the last three months. The red line is when school term began in Devon. The orange band gives the period when students 'staggered' their arrival to Exeter University.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions...
Did I miss something in the North East with regards to 4th October? In all the local authorities here (Northumberland, North/South Tyneside, Newcastle, Gateshead, Sunderland and County Durham) there was a huge spike on 4th October which hasn't been replicated since.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 18 2020, 03:02 PM
QUOTE(Oliver @ Oct 18 2020, 03:59 PM)
Did I miss something in the North East with regards to 4th October? In all the local authorities here (Northumberland, North/South Tyneside, Newcastle, Gateshead, Sunderland and County Durham) there was a huge spike on 4th October which hasn't been replicated since.
Loads of positive tests were missed in the last week of September due to https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54423988, so these were all added back on 3rd and 4th October.
Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 18 2020, 03:16 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 18 2020, 03:54 PM)
excellent
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 18 2020, 03:44 PM
I did not post her tirade as it was full of expletives and against Northerners.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 18 2020, 04:04 PM
I've looked at a few local authorities that do NOT have a university as well as Brighton & hove that has two. All their charts show a similar pattern to Exeter. Could it be that the weather got colder in October leading to more people gathering indoors rather than out?
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 18 2020, 04:13 PM
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 18 2020, 05:04 PM)
I've looked at a few local authorities that do NOT have a university as well as Brighton & hove that has two. All their charts show a similar pattern to Exeter. Could it be that the weather got colder in October leading to more people gathering indoors rather than out?
That doesn't explain why the greatest number of cases/100,000 are in major university cities though? It hasn't been colder there!
Exeter has a rate of 267.9 per 100K.
Mid-Devon is at 45 per 100K.
Certainly there has been an increase
widely and that is likely due to a number of factors including more mixing indoors (because of the colder weather), but the sharper increases show a considerable correlation with university cities.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 18 2020, 05:04 PM
But also you look at St Andrews and not only does the town not have the same curve but the county as a whole doesn’t. At Andrews is a very small town with a very high student population for its size (16k vs 9k) and the case levels there are very low. So I think that just blaming students and university towns is an over simplification and there’s clearly other matters at play like Simon suggests
Posted by: Boo!piter Oct 18 2020, 05:06 PM
Its not that students were inherently the problem - as in students due to BEING STUDENTS or due to THEIR BEHAVIOUR.
Rather its that student households forcibly mixed adults in a sustained way, in a way in which all of our other measures had been designed to prevent since April.
Take the example of households A, B, C and D, each of three adults. These are four households before going back to uni.
If someone in household D gets covid, they can only infect their two shared household adults.
However, if infected person D moves to uni, that household immediately expands to 10 people. Asymptomatic transmission is higher in younger people - with young adults prone to be superspreaders. Teaching doesn't need masks or social distancing. So infected person D will very quickly - just through being part of a new household and going to uni, following all the rules they've been told - be spreading the illness.
So much of the rhetoric about students fails to address that and instead peddles the idea that students INHERENTLY are careless and through reckless behaviour caused the issue, rather than everything about the student's baseline situation being set up to spread the illness even if all rules were obeyed.
E: Re the discussion above, it will be student accommodation that's the driving factor. A rich uni like St Andrews is less likely to make students share 10-bed cramped flats with shared facilities, which will limit how much damage spread can do off the bat. Whereas Northern England unis will be the opposite.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 18 2020, 05:13 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 18 2020, 05:13 PM)
That doesn't explain why the greatest number of cases/100,000 are in major university cities though? It hasn't been colder there!
Exeter has a rate of 267.9 per 100K.
Mid-Devon is at 45 per 100K.
Certainly there has been an increase widely and that is likely due to a number of factors including more mixing indoors (because of the colder weather), but the sharper increases show a considerable correlation with university cities.
I'm sure you have been told many times that a correlation does not necessarily mean there is a causal relationship. There is a 99% correlation between the divorce rate in Maine and the US-wide consumption of margarine.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 18 2020, 05:13 PM
QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Oct 18 2020, 06:04 PM)
But also you look at St Andrews and not only does the town not have the same curve but the county as a whole doesn’t. At Andrews is a very small town with a very high student population for its size (16k vs 9k) and the case levels there are very low. So I think that just blaming students and university towns is an over simplification and there’s clearly other matters at play like Simon suggests
Have you got a link to that data, I can only see Fife?
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 18 2020, 05:25 PM
Yes I’ve got a link. It’s been a fortnight since I last saw it so the cases have risen from 7 in St Andrews Central to 14. Still very low for a University town. The Uni is spread over the Neighbourhood of St Andrews North & Strathkinnes (all most all the self catered halls are here), St Andrews Central (HMO & Catered Halls) and St Andrews East (Self-Catered)
https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview
Public Health Scotland provide data at the neighbourhood level, it’s really good and handy dashboard. It’s taken them a long time to get to this level but I am really impressed by the level of detail they’ve provided the stats at.
Fife being both a central belt county and a university area is bucking the Scotland wide trend somewhat on new cases. There are some but not as many as the surrounding areas (Forth Valley to the west/south west & Lothian to the south)
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 18 2020, 05:44 PM
QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Oct 18 2020, 06:25 PM)
Yes I’ve got a link. It’s been a fortnight since I last saw it so the cases have risen from 7 in St Andrews Central to 14. Still very low for a University town. The Uni is spread over the Neighbourhood of St Andrews North & Strathkinnes (all most all the self catered halls are here), St Andrews Central (HMO & Catered Halls) and St Andrews East (Self-Catered)
https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview
Public Health Scotland provide data at the neighbourhood level, it’s really good and handy dashboard. It’s taken them a long time to get to this level but I am really impressed by the level of detail they’ve provided the stats at.
Fife being both a central belt county and a university area is bucking the Scotland wide trend somewhat on new cases. There are some but not as many as the surrounding areas (Forth Valley to the west/south west & Lothian to the south)
Ok thanks -it is certainly better presented than the UK government tracker.
The case rate in Fife has climbed 10 times from 5/100K to 50/100K since the university reopened but the rate hasn't been as explosive as other areas granted.
There was certainly a lot of evidence available to the government to show that reopening universities could create large local spikes: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3365
But we know this was ignored because of our rentier economy: https://novaramedia.com/2020/09/29/covid-19-has-shown-university-isnt-about-educating-young-people-its-about-exploiting-them/
Needless to say, I am not blaming students here. Far from it, it is the ridiculous decision to encourage students to return to halls despite most courses being taught online this term.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 18 2020, 06:19 PM
QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Oct 18 2020, 06:04 PM)
But also you look at St Andrews and not only does the town not have the same curve but the county as a whole doesn’t. At Andrews is a very small town with a very high student population for its size (16k vs 9k) and the case levels there are very low. So I think that just blaming students and university towns is an over simplification and there’s clearly other matters at play like Simon suggests
I am not sure I agree. My City won't be far off Tier 3 at this rate.
I don't blame students for going back to University. But they have to take some accountability for their actions. Seen numerous local interviews where they drag about no social distancing and they don't want to be locked down as they "have had a shot year and want to have fun". Feck right off.
In my City, the University borough accounts for 70-75% of the cases on a daily basis. I can see the data on a neighbourhood level too. I do agree they are being demonised but the figures in the student population have pushed the numbers through the roof where I live, this is a fact. And all the measures being implemented won't do much.. guess the scores on the doors will be in 2-3 weeks if that particular borough stays high and the rest level off. I'm in favour of locking down the local area if that's the case rather than the whole city.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 19 2020, 07:04 AM
From BBC News
"THE coronavirus pub curfew should be pulled forward to 6PM “or even earlier”, government health chief Jonathan Van-Tam has said.
The Deputy Chief Medical Officer reportedly made the comments when grilled by MPs over the effectiveness of the current 10PM closing time.
Mr Van-Tam was speaking to Greater Manchester MPs during a virtual summit on Thursday as ministers tried to persuade them to adhere to a Tier 3 lockdown in the region, the Telegraph reports.
According to one MP, when asked if the curfew had affected transmission rates, he said: “Not really. I’d prefer 6pm, or even earlier.”
Mr Van-Tam was also reportedly asked if closing pubs and bars altogether would help get a hold of the crisis, but he replied there was no guarantee.
His curfew comments came as Boris Johnson is locked in a bitter stand-off with the North over a covid clampdown.
Downing Street wants to plunge Greater Manchester into Tier 3 – the strictest lockdown conditions – meaning that pubs and bars will be closed unless they serve meals and households are banned from mixing indoors and in gardens.
But Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham and other regional leaders have refused to accept the restrictions without greater financial support.
Mr Burnham has accused No10 of treating the North with “contempt” and called on the government to provide evidence that pub closures would work.
This weekend has seen crowds of drinkers gathering outside bars in central London’s Soho at closing time.
While 100 people were involved in incidents in Chippenham, Wiltshire, shortly before the 10pm curfew, cops said.
There were a number of reports of anti-social behaviour and a Section 35 dispersal order was enforced, which bans people from visiting the area for up to 48 hours.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 19 2020, 11:31 AM
Wales to go in to national lockdown from Friday (until 9 November).
Posted by: Rooney Oct 19 2020, 11:52 AM
Let's see if England and Scotland will follow..
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 19 2020, 12:05 PM
What I (unfortunately) think will happen is they'll all have this 2-week lockdown (likely followed by ENG & SCO) but then the figures will still be stark because they'll be related to previous weeks' cases pre-lockdown so they'll keep on extending it. They did this the first time round, it was a 3-week lockdown then afterwards it was extended by another 3-weeks etc. so I fear this won't be a "short, sharp" lockdown as they've mentioned but one that will ultimately stretch through until at least December, by which time the reduction in cases should have manifested.
Obviously this all means nothing if noone follows it as strictly this time round but one can always speculate.
Posted by: Вuzzjack H'ween Oct 19 2020, 12:29 PM
QUOTE(Dobbo @ Oct 19 2020, 01:05 PM)
What I (unfortunately) think will happen is they'll all have this 2-week lockdown (likely followed by ENG & SCO) but then the figures will still be stark because they'll be related to previous weeks' cases pre-lockdown so they'll keep on extending it. They did this the first time round, it was a 3-week lockdown then afterwards it was extended by another 3-weeks etc. so I fear this won't be a "short, sharp" lockdown as they've mentioned but one that will ultimately stretch through until at least December, by which time the reduction in cases should have manifested.
Obviously this all means nothing if noone follows it as strictly this time round but one can always speculate.
Yes 3 weeks circuit breaker is nowhere near long enough to stem the rise in spread, maybe back in early/mid September it would have been but not now.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 19 2020, 12:34 PM
QUOTE(Вuzzjack H @ Oct 19 2020, 01:29 PM)
Yes 3 weeks circuit breaker is nowhere near long enough to stem the rise in spread, maybe back in early/mid September it would have been but not now.
This is all about biding time now for a vaccine/treatment. Looks like there will be something available in December/January but that's no good if our hospitals are at full capacity when its barely November.
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 19 2020, 01:20 PM
Do you believe that though? I can't believe a fully successfully proven vaccine which has gone through all the relevant authorities will be widely available as soon as that considering how long it typically takes. Then on top of it there's the issue of public trust/willingness. Completely agree that the hospitals can't be overloaded but a 2-week circuit breaker isn't going to do anything in the medium-term. I personally hope it doesn't come to this but it looks as if they either have to choose between an undefined lockdown like first time round or none at all. A halfway house isn't really helping anyone imo.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 19 2020, 01:58 PM
QUOTE(Dobbo @ Oct 19 2020, 02:20 PM)
Do you believe that though? I can't believe a fully successfully proven vaccine which has gone through all the relevant authorities will be widely available as soon as that considering how long it typically takes. Then on top of it there's the issue of public trust/willingness. Completely agree that the hospitals can't be overloaded but a 2-week circuit breaker isn't going to do anything in the medium-term. I personally hope it doesn't come to this but it looks as if they either have to choose between an undefined lockdown like first time round or none at all. A halfway house isn't really helping anyone imo.
Yes totally believe it, although it won't be widely available. Essential workers and then the vulnerable, that would at least unlock the doors somewhat to get us out of the mess. I've been keeping on top of all the news, seems likely to be deployed in 2021 Q1. We have barely started the flu vaccination programme either, which I believe is why the medical professionals are wanting tougher measures.
The problem the country has got is you're going to be asking medical professionals to choose who lives and who dies. We're not even in peak respiratory virus season yet and our hospitals look like in 2-3 weeks time they won't cope. At least a circuit breaker pushes that back 5-6 weeks. I don't like it as much as anyone, but they can't do nothing. At least a circuit breaker stops school transmission.
Posted by: Boo!piter Oct 19 2020, 02:49 PM
Load of shite if Scotland has one, we've just had two weeks of a harder lockdown than the rest of the UK already, which was pitched as what we'd be doing to avoid a circuit breaker full lockdown.
If it turns out we get one of those as well on top I can see a lot of rebellion tbh. Especially in places like Glasgow (or Aberdeen too?) that haven't even had the rule of 6 yet and have been in total forbidding household mixing restrictions since 6 weeks ago.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 19 2020, 03:13 PM
What's the point of a lockdown if schools have to still open? "Oh no bonfire or fireworks this year because of Covid but you have to still go to school"
Posted by: Botchia Oct 19 2020, 03:42 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 19 2020, 04:13 PM)
What's the point of a lockdown if schools have to still open? "Oh no bonfire or fireworks this year because of Covid but you have to till go to school"
The point is to do everything we can to stop the NHS being overwhelmed to the point of descending into chaos whilst ensuring young people have the least possible disruption to their education having already lost half a school year. Missing one year of bonfire and fireworks is hardly going to have the same impact as closing schools for a second time long term.
Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 19 2020, 04:02 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 19 2020, 04:13 PM)
What's the point of a lockdown if schools have to still open? "Oh no bonfire or fireworks this year because of Covid but you have to still go to school"
Yes because children's education is very much on par with fireworks night.
I can't work out if you're just a troll these days, or if you really think what you're posting
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 19 2020, 04:10 PM
I do feel for the pupils though. 7 probably very difficult weeks of school then when they finally get a break they can't do anything or go anywhere. But it certainly makes sense to implement such a tactic using one of the half-term weeks.
Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Oct 19 2020, 04:27 PM
QUOTE(ElectroBoy @ Oct 19 2020, 05:02 PM)
Yes because children's education is very much on par with fireworks night.
I can't work out if you're just a troll these days, or if you really think what you're posting
He's always been like this in my 14 years as a member of this forum, so I don't think it's anything especially new.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 19 2020, 04:44 PM
QUOTE(ElectroBoy @ Oct 19 2020, 05:02 PM)
Yes because children's education is very much on par with fireworks night.
I can't work out if you're just a troll these days, or if you really think what you're posting
I was just pointing out how it looks from a parents/ child point of view.
Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 19 2020, 05:16 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 19 2020, 05:44 PM)
I was just pointing out how it looks from a parents/ child point of view.
You weren’t though as the comparison was pointless
Posted by: T Boy Oct 19 2020, 05:48 PM
Can we stop pretending that schools staying open is all about the importance of education? That keeps being pedalled out but actually look at the evidence-primary schools stay open and Years 7 and 8? This is more about childcare. And that’s the message I have received loud and clear from the Welsh government today: I’m childcare.
I was prepared to have to work in the second week of lockdown, thinking that they’d want Years 10 and 11 in because they’re our exam groups. But no, the want the non essential year groups in. Losing 5 days of education would have made no difference and now because of this the lockdown will more than likely be extended. I’m not best pleased that my week of holiday is the start of all this so I can’t do anything but I was prepared for that.
I’m sure I’ll get a load of responses about the importance of education but unless any of you are living it like me, I doubt I’ll take any notice.
Thanks for the half arsed lockdown, Drakeford.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 20 2020, 11:52 AM
Another press conference from Boris Johnson this evening at 1700, will be joined by Deputy CMO Jonathan Van Tam and Steve Powis from NHS England.
No news yet on Greater Manchester and the move to Tier 3, call between Boris Johnson and Andy Burnham was still ongoing at 1200 - which was the deadline for an agreement being reached.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 20 2020, 01:53 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 20 2020, 12:52 PM)
Another press conference from Boris Johnson this evening at 1700, will be joined by Deputy CMO Jonathan Van Tam and Steve Powis from NHS England.
No news yet on Greater Manchester and the move to Tier 3, call between Boris Johnson and Andy Burnham was still ongoing at 1200 - which was the deadline for an agreement being reached.
And Hancock addressing the Commons at 7pm. Either we're moving some more regions or there is another announcement.
When do we think we will know whether there will be a circuit breaker announcement? My best guess will be Thursday.
I still think the restrictions are a waste of time while Universities stay open.
Posted by: Jack Oct 20 2020, 01:56 PM
I didn't think there would be any imminent circuit breaker lockdown announcement tbh, just tighter tier 3 restrictions but we will see!
I kind of hope we do go into full lockdown,it's the only way to get out of this mess now.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 20 2020, 02:22 PM
QUOTE(Jack @ Oct 20 2020, 02:56 PM)
I didn't think there would be any imminent circuit breaker lockdown announcement tbh, just tighter tier 3 restrictions but we will see!
I kind of hope we do go into full lockdown,it's the only way to get out of this mess now.
There's no way we will go in to a full lockdown. Few reasons for this - we know more about the virus now, how it works, transmits etc. and plus it would tank our economy. A circuit breaker wouldn't be ideal, but if the Government stumped up the cash I think it could work to bide the time necessary.
Like I say, the big problem will be in in 6-7 weeks when everyone buggers off home for Christmas from Universities. Add that to households mixing for Christmas. If you don't put out the smoke now we're going to be chaotic in January.
Posted by: Jack Oct 20 2020, 02:30 PM
Oh when I said full lockdown I meant circuit breaker haha! Isn't that the same as a "full lockdown" though, in the sense that it would be the same rulings back in April/March? Or am I missing something
Posted by: Hallo'Riheen Oct 20 2020, 02:38 PM
I think it's the same other than not all shops have to close, unlimited exercise and schools remain open (so 1000 people in a building with no social distancing...the logic x).
I'm very very opposed to another full lockdown, I really think it'd just do more harm than good. I get the need for the restrictions we have in Scotland but we shouldn't have much more than them. I worry about the impact of people missing cancer appointments etc (which could already have claimed lives) if there's another lockdown.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 20 2020, 02:39 PM
QUOTE(Jack @ Oct 20 2020, 03:30 PM)
Oh when I said full lockdown I meant circuit breaker haha! Isn't that the same as a "full lockdown" though, in the sense that it would be the same rulings back in April/March? Or am I missing something
Nah the idea of a circuit breaker is a half lockdown, pretty much the entire country going in to Tier 3. So no household mixing, but restaurants are still open - just maybe schools closed for 2 weeks. It won't be anywhere near as bad as the national lockdown.
Posted by: Dobbo Oct 20 2020, 02:47 PM
Ahh I had in mind a circuit breaker was exactly the same as the first lockdown but just for a shorter, defined period and with only schools remaining open.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 20 2020, 03:08 PM
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Oct 20 2020, 12:52 PM)
Another press conference from Boris Johnson this evening at 1700, will be joined by Deputy CMO Jonathan Van Tam and Steve Powis from NHS England.
No news yet on Greater Manchester and the move to Tier 3, call between Boris Johnson and Andy Burnham was still ongoing at 1200 - which was the deadline for an agreement being reached.
Burnham says he'll take it to court if Tier 3 is imposed without an agreement.
Posted by: Jack Oct 20 2020, 03:13 PM
I think the main things that need to happen is virtual learning for universities, enforced and not guidance for working from home, no public transport unless urgent or key worker and no mixing of households.
I think the other measures are fine with maybe schools getting an extended half term break as well on top of this. But what do I know lmao
Posted by: Rooney Oct 20 2020, 03:16 PM
QUOTE(Dobbo @ Oct 20 2020, 03:47 PM)
Ahh I had in mind a circuit breaker was exactly the same as the first lockdown but just for a shorter, defined period and with only schools remaining open.
Who knows really but I cannot see it being anywhere near as strict. I still think just lockdown Universities or keep them in bubbles on campus and you solve one massive problem. Tbh I find the whole situation daft in Manchester, the rates are coming down yet now they want to impose even stricter measures which is why Burnham was fighting so hard for extra resource. He has a great point.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 20 2020, 03:16 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 20 2020, 03:39 PM)
Nah the idea of a circuit breaker is a half lockdown, pretty much the entire country going in to Tier 3. So no household mixing, but restaurants are still open - just maybe schools closed for 2 weeks. It won't be anywhere near as bad as the national lockdown.
Think non-essential shops would be closed too.
Posted by: Iz~ Oct 20 2020, 03:30 PM
It's fascinating and gratifying to see Burnham resisting against the government's half-assed measures (can see him coming out very popular after this), if there is to be a lockdown, there needs to be better support from the state and government system in order to ensure people don't fall into poverty.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 20 2020, 03:39 PM
According to Sky, talks broke down as Burnham wanted £100million but would accept £65m and Boris rejected that too so will announce his plans for Manchester at 5pm.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 20 2020, 03:41 PM
QUOTE(Iz~ @ Oct 20 2020, 04:30 PM)
It's fascinating and gratifying to see Burnham resisting against the government's half-assed measures (can see him coming out very popular after this), if there is to be a lockdown, there needs to be better support from the state and government system in order to ensure people don't fall into poverty.
Yeah very interesting. I think Labour have suffered from not having too many MPs who were media friendly (I know it shouldn't be that way) or big names. Maybe if he decides to go back to being an MP if he has Leadership aspirations again, he would be a good shout. He certainly seems more popular than Khan.
Over 21,000 infections today and 241 deaths. Only one way this is going now.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 20 2020, 03:43 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 20 2020, 04:39 PM)
According to Sky, talks broke down as Burnham wanted £100million but would accept £65m and Boris rejected that too so will announce his plans for Manchester at 5pm.
The 5pm conference will be a public message conference, they must have seen the data this morning and scheduled a conference to reaffirm the public health message. Obviously the Government will use it to raise their PR message too.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 20 2020, 03:56 PM
All seems to have broken down over £15m. The BBC saying Boris offered £50m and Burnham rejected it. He's expecting a Tier 3 being enforced from 10pm Fri and he'll only get 20m now. Cut off his nose to spite his face hasn't he then? Should have take the 50 million. Just been speaking outside Manchester Town Hall and said it's awful that the furlough changes soon. Should have stayed in place.
Posted by: Iz~ Oct 20 2020, 04:02 PM
The government really just lessened their funding for an entire city because they got shown up and you think Burnham's the bad guy here?!!
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 20 2020, 04:03 PM
QUOTE(Iz~ @ Oct 20 2020, 05:02 PM)
The government really just lessened their funding for an entire city because they got shown up and you think Burnham's the bad guy here?!!
He could have had 50 million and now rumoured to be getting 20.
Posted by: blacksquare Oct 20 2020, 04:09 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 20 2020, 05:03 PM)
He could have had 50 million and now rumoured to be getting 20.
Shameful.
The amount the goverment have been pouring into Serco and the pockets of their friends — and you think the problem is Burnham? Absolutely not.
Posted by: blacksquare Oct 20 2020, 04:14 PM
Finally some leadership from Labour — Burnham has warmed my cold heart. Passion and convinction from him all week. He's doing the right thing, and I only see him becoming more popular because of it. I don't see this going well for Boris or the government — I'm only seeing growing anger from the north towards both.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 20 2020, 04:18 PM
So basically the North and London are bad, everywhere else good.
Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 20 2020, 04:19 PM
Boris and the whole of the Tories really are horrific cnuts
And to anyone who supported them, should really be ashamed of themselves for letting such a bunch of w*n**rs into power
Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 20 2020, 04:20 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 20 2020, 05:18 PM)
So basically the North and London are bad, everywhere else good.
pretty much sums up that press conference.
Hopefully Manchester still refuses even come Friday
Posted by: Count Olaf Oct 20 2020, 04:24 PM
Disgraceful re Manchester. How can you say £60m is sufficient on the morning and then £22m on the afternoon??
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 20 2020, 04:29 PM
QUOTE(ElectroBoy @ Oct 20 2020, 05:20 PM)
pretty much sums up that press conference.
Hopefully Manchester still refuses even come Friday
They can't refuse to go in to lockdown as it's the law and will be imposed with fines. Maybe some trouble ahead then. Maybe many pubs refusing to close.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 20 2020, 04:31 PM
Yet another Trumpism from his mini-me Johnson. Trump offered to reduce or cut-off funding for States and cities that dared to vote Democrat and now Johnson has followed suit. This government just continues to plumb new depths every day.
Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 20 2020, 04:31 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 20 2020, 05:29 PM)
They can't refuse to go in to lockdown as it's the law and will be imposed with fines. Maybe some trouble ahead then. Maybe many pubs refusing to close.
The laws flexible according to BoJo
Posted by: Rooney Oct 20 2020, 04:33 PM
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 20 2020, 05:31 PM)
Yet another Trumpism from his mini-me Johnson. Trump offered to reduce or cut-off funding for States and cities that dared to vote Democrat and now Johnson has followed suit. This government just continues to plumb new depths every day.
Definitely Trumpism tactics. Jenrick is a massive twat.
Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 20 2020, 04:37 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 20 2020, 05:33 PM)
Definitely Trumpism tactics. Jenrick is a massive twat.
They’re all twats - Johnson, Gove, Hancock, Jenric, Patel... the list is endless
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 20 2020, 04:41 PM
Boris says the £22 million is fair as it's in line with the NE and Lancashire.
Posted by: Count Olaf Oct 20 2020, 04:43 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 20 2020, 05:41 PM)
Boris says the £22 million is fair as it's in line with the NE and Lancashire.
The North East isn't in Tier 3 restrictions.
As far as I understood from what I read earlier, £75m would be in line with Liverpool and Lancashire.
so, surprise surprise Boris is a liar
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 20 2020, 04:47 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 20 2020, 05:41 PM)
Boris says the £22 million is fair as it's in line with the NE and Lancashire.
Another lie. Lancashire got £42m for 1.5m people. Greater Manchester has 2.8m people.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 20 2020, 04:51 PM
Let's be honest, that press conference was a message for all councils and local governments to get in line when the majority of the North & Midlands + London is imposed in Tier 3 restrictions over the next few weeks. Meanwhile, Belinda in Cornwall can serve her creamcakes
Posted by: Jack Oct 20 2020, 05:16 PM
Imagine defending Boris Johnson....ever but especially now
I'm at a loss for words as to what's happening regarding Manchester. A lot of people will lose their jobs and struggle this Winter. It's incredibly sad and bleak, Andy did all he could to get a fair deal and to know be so petty because he didn't initially agree to offer less than half of the proposed deal is disgusting. Everyone who voted Tory should be deeply ashamed.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 20 2020, 05:16 PM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 20 2020, 05:51 PM)
Let's be honest, that press conference was a message for all councils and local governments to get in line when the majority of the North & Midlands + London is imposed in Tier 3 restrictions over the next few weeks. Meanwhile, Belinda in Cornwall can serve her creamcakes
I'd rather have a Cornish pasty I think.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 20 2020, 06:05 PM
I was pissed off with Drakeford yesterday but I’m so glad Johnson is not in charge in Wales. He’s an absolute bully.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 20 2020, 06:47 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 20 2020, 05:56 PM)
All seems to have broken down over £15m. The BBC saying Boris offered £50m and Burnham rejected it. He's expecting a Tier 3 being enforced from 10pm Fri and he'll only get 20m now. Cut off his nose to spite his face hasn't he then? Should have take the 50 million. Just been speaking outside Manchester Town Hall and said it's awful that the furlough changes soon. Should have stayed in place.
You have managed to quote the wrong figures for the entire day. Well done for managing to be so wrong on the basic facts as well as having a take as welcome as a cup of cold vomit.
It’s a 5m gap. Gov offered 60m, GM said minimum needed was 65m and gov walked away. GM actually wanted 90m so they could do a mini furlough for the region. They moved a hell of a lot and the gov us now giving 22m out of pure spite.
Honestly imagine siding with the government on this one.
Posted by: T Boy Oct 20 2020, 06:53 PM
QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Oct 20 2020, 07:47 PM)
You have managed to quote the wrong figures for the entire day. Well done for managing to be so wrong on the basic facts as well as having a take as welcome as a cup of cold vomit.
It’s a 5m gap. Gov offered 60m, GM said minimum needed was 65m and gov walked away. GM actually wanted 90m so they could do a mini furlough for the region. They moved a hell of a lot and the gov us now giving 22m out of pure spite.
Honestly imagine siding with the government on this one.
Agreed. People’s lives and livelihoods should not be used as pawns in a game. The tories are showing who they’ve always been and anyone who still supports them at this point is either supremely unintelligent or a selfish arse.
Posted by: Brett-Butler Oct 20 2020, 06:57 PM
To think we could have had Prime Minister Burnham in 2020. *sigh*.
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉʍ Oct 20 2020, 07:07 PM
Tory supporters from Manchester rn: 👁 👄 👁
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 20 2020, 07:15 PM
QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Oct 20 2020, 07:47 PM)
You have managed to quote the wrong figures for the entire day. Well done for managing to be so wrong on the basic facts as well as having a take as welcome as a cup of cold vomit.
It’s a 5m gap. Gov offered 60m, GM said minimum needed was 65m and gov walked away. GM actually wanted 90m so they could do a mini furlough for the region. They moved a hell of a lot and the gov us now giving 22m out of pure spite.
Honestly imagine siding with the government on this one.
Where have I said I sided with the Government? Why should GM have 90m though when Liverpool didn't get anywhere near that amount? Don't you think the 60m Govt. offer was fair?
Posted by: Вuzzjack H'ween Oct 20 2020, 07:24 PM
Yes I agree the government should have offered more money and done a deal with Burnham. I worry though that some people in the area are going to mistake Burnham for being anti-restrictions and use that to justify breaking the rules of the restrictions, one of the journalists in the conference session today also said that a few local leaders in the North have expressed statements that have appeared to be genuinely anti-restriction too which doesn't help. The fact Boris went from 60 million to 22 million, and just the fact that the government was unable to come to a quick deal with the Manchester local leaders, will also encourage people not to follow the rules too as many won't see the restrictions as legitimate any more.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 20 2020, 08:25 PM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 20 2020, 09:15 PM)
Where have I said I sided with the Government? Why should GM have 90m though when Liverpool didn't get anywhere near that amount? Don't you think the 60m Govt. offer was fair?
I imagine the variation in funding between Liverpool and Greater Manchester has something to do with the small inconvenient fact that DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE LIVE IN GREATER MANCHESTER YA EEJIT.
So you going full barrels on Burnham isn’t you siding with the the Gov? Sure Jan
And for the record, no. GM should get the 90m it wanted. All regions should have the funding and powers to run localised furlough schemes to protect the low paid hospitality workers and others who’s livelihood is directly threatened by the restrictions. They shouldn’t need to choose between paying rent or feeding their kids because of government restrictions that put them out of work for no fault of their own.
This gov is cruel and barbaric and I hope to god their reign of incompetence ends as soon as possible.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 20 2020, 08:48 PM
QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Oct 20 2020, 09:25 PM)
And for the record, no. GM should get the 90m it wanted. All regions should have the funding and powers to run localised furlough schemes to protect the low paid hospitality workers and others who’s livelihood is directly threatened by the restrictions. They shouldn’t need to choose between paying rent or feeding their kids because of government restrictions that put them out of work for no fault of their own.
So who should decide how much this will cost then? Should we just give them a blank cheque? How did Burnham come up with the 90 million? What if, as has happened, the Government and local leaders disagree? Maybe there should be some sort of mediator.
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉʍ Oct 20 2020, 09:24 PM
'We'? 'Them'? 
Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Oct 20 2020, 11:17 PM
Chris, let me put this into context for your simple brain to comprehend...
Boris Johnson offered £60m to Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham wanted just £5m more to support businesses in GM through Tier 3. What did Boris do? Withdrew the offer and reduced it to £22m.
He's basically left the whole city to rot because their Mayor stood up and fought for them.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 21 2020, 06:33 AM
So what you had basically, as was said on the news last night, two grown men in very responsible positions, arguing over 5 million quid when thousands have died and billions spent because of Covid already. Both are in the wrong. Yes, Boris too. See I've said it now. I know Boris isn't perfect but 90 million was an obscene amount to demand. I think Boris should have agreed to 65 million. Anyway, what are we arguing over when they say the offer's still there?
I've also seen it suggested last night that Boris may have wanted to look like a tough negotiator to the EU and Macron. Show he's no walk-over.
Posted by: Boo!piter Oct 21 2020, 07:12 AM
You're acting like he 'demanded' it for himself.
It's public money! Coming from taxes PAID BY the people and businesses of Manchester!
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 21 2020, 07:14 AM
QUOTE(ɥɔʇᴉʍ @ Oct 20 2020, 10:24 PM)
'We'? 'Them'?
I meant the Government and the regions.
I'm sick to death of you having a go at me
Every post I make you quote and criticise. Try entering the conversation yourself if you can and leave me alone. You are bullying me online and am not standing for it any longer. Surely the mods here must have noticed by now too.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 21 2020, 07:15 AM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 20 2020, 10:48 PM)
So who should decide how much this will cost then? Should we just give them a blank cheque? How did Burnham come up with the 90 million? What if, as has happened, the Government and local leaders disagree? Maybe there should be some sort of mediator.
The selective quote as always is noted.
The 90m was costed by a treasury official. As has been quite widely reported on reputable news sites and stated multiple times by Burnham.
For someone who seems to just regurgitate press reports you don’t seem to read many of them
The government has spent 12bn on a failed test and trace system. If it can line Sercos pockets to that extent I think it can support businesses it’s forcing to close in GM with 90m
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 21 2020, 07:15 AM
QUOTE(Boo!piter @ Oct 21 2020, 08:12 AM)
You're acting like he 'demanded' it for himself.
It's public money! Coming from taxes PAID BY the people and businesses of Manchester!
I know that. Am not stupid you know. Credit with me with some intelligence for God's sake.
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉʍ Oct 21 2020, 07:54 AM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 21 2020, 10:14 AM)
I meant the Government and the regions.
I'm sick to death of you having a go at me
Every post I make you quote and criticise. Try entering the conversation yourself if you can and leave me alone. You are bullying me online and am not standing for it any longer. Surely the mods here must have noticed by now too.
YOU are not the one writing checks. THEY are also part of your country. What YOU did was literally say that the Gov’t playing human chess is fine because Johnston has to seem like ‘a tough negotiator for the EU’. Get your head out of your ass for a second and listen to your surroundings, you might find a few surprises. Mainly that not everything revolves around what YOU want hun.
No sarcastic cheesy off-topic remark this time? How very unlike your character to address something directly.
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 21 2020, 07:59 AM
QUOTE(ɥɔʇᴉʍ @ Oct 21 2020, 08:54 AM)
What YOU did was literally say that the Gov’t playing human chess is fine because Johnston has to seem like ‘a tough negotiator for the EU’.
I never said that. I said that someone on last night's news had suggested that he may want to look tough to the EU. Didn't say I agreed with that. Fed up of people taking my words out of context.
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉʍ Oct 21 2020, 08:18 AM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 21 2020, 10:59 AM)
I never said that. I said that someone on last night's news had suggested that he may want to look tough to the EU. Didn't say I agreed with that. Fed up of people taking my words out of context.
Posted by: Botchia Oct 21 2020, 08:35 AM
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 20 2020, 05:47 PM)
Another lie. Lancashire got £42m for 1.5m people. Greater Manchester has 2.8m people.
And now £41m for the Sheffield City Region, which has a similar population to Lancashire heading into Tier 3. Not even a day after £22m is deemed enough for Greater Manchester.
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 21 2020, 08:46 AM
Of course. Are we even surprised?
And I’ve decided that it’s not worth the effort to reply to Chris anymore. He regurgitates shite from the daily Mail without an ounce of critical thought and then never actually engages you in a proper conversation. It’s constant sea lion behaviour. He’s not worth the time or intelligent thought of anyone in here.
Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 21 2020, 08:57 AM
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Oct 21 2020, 08:59 AM)
I never said that. I said that someone on last night's news had suggested that he may want to look tough to the EU. Didn't say I agreed with that. Fed up of people taking my words out of context.
Lots of us quote other sources but then supplement it with an opinion of our own, particularly if we think the other source is totally wrong. Rightly or wrongly, many people see quoting an opinion without comment as an endorsement of that opinion.
Posted by: Doctor Blind Oct 21 2020, 10:27 AM
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 20 2020, 05:33 PM)
Definitely Trumpism tactics. Jenrick is a massive twat.
Anyone else getting a massive Bryce Walker (from
13 Reasons Why) vibe off of Jenrick ??
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 21 2020, 11:14 AM
After being evicerated, Boris has done another u turn and GM will get 60m.....if his answers at PMQs hold up beyond the end of the session that is
Posted by: Crazy Chris Oct 21 2020, 01:48 PM
QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Oct 21 2020, 12:14 PM)
After being evicerated, Boris has done another u turn and GM will get 60m.....if his answers at PMQs hold up beyond the end of the session that is
Excellent news. I knew they'd get more that £22m. Now can we here stop bickering about it.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 21 2020, 05:16 PM
QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Oct 20 2020, 07:57 PM)
To think we could have had Prime Minister Burnham in 2020. *sigh*.
Il admit I voted for chaos with Ed Miliband
Posted by: Rooney Oct 21 2020, 05:19 PM
Over 26,000 cases today. Only a matter of time before the South follows the same trajectory as the North.
My friend got told to self isolate today, one week after coming in to contact with a positive infection. She's tested negative, but totally what's the point of misery measures if they achieve naff all.
Posted by: Hallo'Riheen Oct 21 2020, 05:38 PM
28 deaths in Scotland today, wow. That's the highest since we were still in full lockdown (the last time it was more than that was mid May when we could go out for unlimited exercise but everything else was full lockdown, basically Wales now) I think either the central belt restrictions will be extended to the whole country or we're getting a firebreaker
Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 21 2020, 05:52 PM
QUOTE(Steve201 @ Oct 21 2020, 07:16 PM)
Il admit I voted for chaos with Ed Miliband
Same but by voting SNP aka the chaos
QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 21 2020, 07:19 PM)
Over 26,000 cases today. Only a matter of time before the South follows the same trajectory as the North.
My friend got told to self isolate today, one week after coming in to contact with a positive infection. She's tested negative, but totally what's the point of misery measures if they achieve naff all.
I’ve had an exposure notification through the Corona-Warn App but haven’t been told to self isolate
Posted by: Jack Oct 21 2020, 06:02 PM
QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Oct 21 2020, 06:52 PM)
I’ve had an exposure notification through the Corona-Warn App but haven’t been told to self isolate
Same, what is even the point in those notifications? lmao
Posted by: Liаm Oct 21 2020, 08:17 PM
All they do is give you anxiety lmao, I've got a few this week but when I click nothing happens so I think it's just like "you were on the same bus or in the same shop as someone", I know it says something about measuring the level and duration of exposure so I guess if they measure it as being fine or minimal risk, the app won't say anything. You'd think having spent so much on it they could at least have a screen saying you're fine when you click on it, a bit of clarity would do wonders but then that just sums up Tory Britain doesn't it?
Posted by: Crypt of the Wombat Oct 21 2020, 08:21 PM
I've had one notification that I'm potentially at risk when I was in my own home and hadn't been out...followed a split second later by an all clear notification (My mother at the time was getting tested so I was worried for a minute, but it was negative sooo). So proud of our app!
Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉʍ Oct 21 2020, 08:42 PM
I don't know what that app looks like but I suspect it's just a GPS with extra functions that can be implemented by 5 uni students that runs your phone battery like a motherf***er. *insert a relevant number* billion well spent :')
Posted by: Rooney Oct 21 2020, 10:06 PM
QUOTE(Liаm @ Oct 21 2020, 09:17 PM)
All they do is give you anxiety lmao, I've got a few this week but when I click nothing happens so I think it's just like "you were on the same bus or in the same shop as someone", I know it says something about measuring the level and duration of exposure so I guess if they measure it as being fine or minimal risk, the app won't say anything. You'd think having spent so much on it they could at least have a screen saying you're fine when you click on it, a bit of clarity would do wonders but then that just sums up Tory Britain doesn't it?
That's the Apple/Google app for you, it just catches your bluetooth signal. I had the exposure push notification 5-6 times a couple of weeks ago. I wouldn't take any notice of it unless Track & Trace get in touch with you directly.
Posted by: Rooney Oct 21 2020, 10:11 PM
Also someone posted this on another forum, I go on. But this just points to lots of the problems starting with students. Highlights where we are going to be in 2-3 weeks. Hence why I don't get that if you nip it in the bud now you can prevent harsher measures for longer.
209 people in Hospital in the South West, going up around 15 per day on average, 21 people on ventilation which has gone up 10 in a week. The South West covers everywhere from Bristol down to Cornwall, it's Bristol that are inflating those stats, Bristol has seen a sharpish rise in cases since the students returned to Bristol and UWE university. The infection rate in Bristol has gone above 200 from 64 three weeks ago. The deaths are relatively flat, using that arbitrary 28 day nonsense, we've had seven deaths in a couple of months.
Bristol has a healthy ICU capacity, the problem is the surrounding areas don't and patients from further afield will be admitted, it won't take a massive jump for the capacity to reach critical levels.
This is coming for everyone, no doubt some in the South will change their tune when they're looking at the government to pay their wages.
Posted by: Steve201 Oct 21 2020, 10:58 PM
I agree the 28 day nonsense of deaths is surely a load of crap as many only get admitted to icu as many as 21 days after contracting the virus so will they not be counted in the stats??
Also does anyone have the data showing how many people who go into hospital due to COVID then end up in icu?
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