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 PRESIDENTS / PRIME MINISTERS RATE |
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 13th November 2013, 09:54 PM
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#21
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 DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480 
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QUOTE(Danny @ Nov 13 2013, 10:52 PM)  I was expecting my comments on Blair to atleast draw a reaction from you  Oh, objecting to Blair's perfectly understandable - I was just more surprised at the particular target of your ire, given more people seem to resent him on his interventions on things like Syria and refusing to support Ed on the energy price freeze. |
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13th November 2013, 10:28 PM
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#22
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 The owls are not what they seem
Pronouns: He/him
Joined: 11 July 2009 Posts: 37,127 User: 9,232
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QUOTE(Cassandra @ Nov 13 2013, 09:40 PM) What was so dislikable about Gordon CW? I never thought he seemed particularly strong as a prime minister. Wasn't all his fault I'm aware as we were in a recession and all, but there's little I feel he really excelled at. Plus he always seemed so dour all the time - just such a dull personality, even Cameron's stronger on that front! |
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14th November 2013, 12:16 AM
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#23
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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10 Clement Attlee: ever so slightly overrated, but then there's so much to overrate - even though most of it didn't last. The nationalisation of, well, EVERYTHING was a bit of a slip-up but that aside you can't really dispute the kind of record old CLEM had - although I think it says a little that he ran out of steam after just five years. Still, NHS and the welfare state as we know it isn't much of a bad thing to go out with, and he was lucky to be facing a Tory Party too terrified to tinker much with his legacy. // "Believe in the ethics of Christianity. Can't believe in the mumbo jumbo." // "I can assure you there is widespread resentment in the Party at your activities and a period of silence on your part would be welcome.", to Harold Laski
05 Winston Churchill: one of the great house building governments. That said, he spent most of his second time as PM off his tits and/or senile, and he loses points for Mau-Mau. // "The object of Parliament is to substitute argument for fisticuffs." // "In the course of my life I have often had to eat my words, and I must confess that I have always found it a wholesome diet." 00 Anthony Eden: a Prime Minister who started his term by defining himself by foreign policy. Awkward that he pretty much caused the evisceration of any illusions still held that the UK was a world power then. // "Peace comes first, always" // "Anthony's father was a mad baronet and his mother a very beautiful woman. That's Anthony—half mad baronet, half beautiful woman.", Rab Butler (ASIDE: his gay son who served as a minister for Thatcher before carking it from AIDS would definitely have got it.) 08 Harold Macmillan: I wish we had Tories like Mac these days. // "And then this growing division which the noble Lord who has just spoken mentioned, of a comparatively prosperous south, and an ailing north and midlands. That can't go on." // "How do you treat a cold? One nanny said, 'Feed a cold'; she was a neo-Keynesian. The other said, 'Starve a cold'; she was a monetarist." 00 Alec Douglas-Home: the Big Brother 4 of Prime Ministers. // "An elegant anachronism.", Harold Wilson // "I suppose you realise if you do, the Conservatives will win the election by 200-300 seats.", in response to two left-wing students from Aberdeen who attempted to kidnap him in 1964, whom he then bribed to not do so with beer - which is incidentally my favourite Prime Ministerial anecdote ever. 07 Harold Wilson: points for all the social change but he was a bit of a nothing as PM aside. It doesn't really help that the economic issues he dealt with and the levers he had at his disposal are totally foreign to those of today, which makes assessing his time in power a little like comparing apples and pears. Probably the only Labour PM (not including Tony for obvious reasons) to have left his successor with a strong economic situation to oversee in 1970. Not really the case in 1976. // "This Party needs to protect itself against the activities of small groups of inflexible political persuasion, extreme so-called left and in a few cases extreme so-called moderates, having in common only their arrogant dogmatism. These groups, equally the multichromatic coalitionist fringe or groups specifically formed to fight other marauding groups, these groups are not what this Party is about. Infestation of this kind thrives only, and can thrive only, in minuscule local parties." // "I have always said this of Tony [Benn]: he immatures with age." 05 Ted Heath: THREE-DAY WEEK. Yay for joining the EC though. His economic u-turn in response to unemployment has to surely be the most stunning government about-face ever though - the equivalent of today's government cancelling the cuts and deciding to follow an economic plan that looked like Craig having a meth nightmare about a second Brown term. // "No, I said it three times.", on being asked if he'd said 'Rejoice, rejoice!' on hearing of Thatcher's resignation // "I have always had a hidden wish, a frustrated desire, to run a hotel." 00 James Callaghan: if you think Blair was an economic conservative...well. // "Unilateral disarmament by Britain is opposed to our country's best interests, could begin the unravelling of NATO and therefore jeopardise the stability of Europe." // "When we reject unemployment as an economic instrument — as we do — and when we reject also superficial remedies, as socialists must, then we must ask ourselves unflinchingly what is the cause of high unemployment. Quite simply and unequivocally, it is caused by paying ourselves more than the value of what we produce. There are no scapegoats."; "We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists, and in so far as it ever did exist, it only worked on each occasion since the war by injecting a bigger dose of inflation into the economy, followed by a higher level of unemployment as the next step." 02 Margaret Thatcher: she was better than Reagan, I'll give her that. She can have two points for a few needed reforms and that's it. // "Economics are the method; the object is to change the heart and soul." // "Children who need to be taught to respect traditional moral values are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay." 05 John Major: social conservatism aside, I actually QUITE LIKE HIM. I feel sorry for the old fart. // "In the next ten years we will have to continue to make changes which will make the whole of this country a genuinely classless society." // "Society needs to condemn a little more and understand a little less." 11 Tony Blair: when was the last time YOU brought in: the minimum wage, school and tuition fee reforms of such staggering fabulosity in their results that HORSES ARE TRANSFORMED INTO UNICORNS (legislatively) upon merely THINKING about them, a foreign policy doctrine that did likewise, peace in Northern Ireland (ok John Major can have an extra point for helping), an electable Labour Party after a generation in the wilderness which would have likely scraped a term or two under John Smith with nowhere near as much of a settlement, boundless LGBT freedom - I could go on (I WOULD go on if I weren't starting to gush slightly). Shame about most of it SINCE really. // "A New Britain where the extraordinary talent of the British people is liberated from the forces of conservatism that so long have held them back, to create a model 21st century nation, based not on privilege, class or background, but on the equal worth of all."; "The spirit of our age is one in which the prejudices of the past are put behind us, where our diversity is our strength. It is this which is under attack. Moderates are not moderate through weakness but through strength. Now is the time to show it in defence of our common values." // "A day like today is not a day for, sort of, soundbites, really - we can leave those at home - but I feel the hand of history upon our shoulders, I really do." "The righteous will evidently never tire of the pelting and taunting of Tony Blair, and perhaps those like him who choose to join the Roman choir of extreme unctuousness must expect their meed of abuse. But I cannot forget the figures of Slobodan Milošević, Charles Taylor and Saddam Hussein, who made terrified fiefdoms out of their "own" people and mounds of corpses on the territory of their neighbours. I was glad to see each of these monsters brought to trial, and think the achievement should (and one day will) form part of the battle‑honours of British Labour. Many of the triumphant pelters and taunters would have left the dictators and aggressors in place: they too will have their place in history.", Christopher Hitchens 09 Gordon Brown: although his time as Prime Minister was essentially like classic Griff in the lead-up to him doing a really underwhelming rate, he gets a lot of points for saving the world. History will judge him well, despite all the personality defects and near-total failure outside of that. // "Our new economic approach is rooted in ideas which stress the importance of macro-economics, post neo-classical endogenous growth theory and the symbiotic relationships between growth and investment, and people and infrastructure." // "Thank you for all you do." 04 David Cameron: Bitch please as if you're the heir. // "Oh, the vision thing." // "We're going to keep trying to strengthen the American family. To make them more like the Waltons and less like the Simpsons."; ""He seems content-free to me. Never had a job, except in PR, and it shows. People ask, 'What do you think of him?' and my answer is: 'He doesn't make me think.'", Christopher Hitchens. |
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15th November 2013, 12:14 AM
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#24
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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MORE VOTES PLEASE
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18th November 2013, 10:22 PM
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#25
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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08 Harry Truman - despite the fact that he and Dewey weren't that far apart in some ways, the '48 election makes me feel all warm inside. Hiroshima does not. Post-war foreign policy efforts basically shaped the mostly good bits of the world as we know it today.
05 Dwight Eisenhower - comparison with Macmillan neatly summarises the difference between the US and the UK. A bit eager in foreign affairs but credit for making sure the Democrat interruption wasn't too costly and mainly keeping social security. 07 John Kennedy - overrated to hell but didn't do anything much wrong and aspiration is always welcome. 09 Lyndon Johnson - loses two for Nam and contributing to the Solid South flipping on its head, but it was bloody worth it. Actually begins to resemble a modern country when you’ve got rid of segregation and carried FDR’s legacy with welfare. 06 Richard Nixon – I’m sure he was a bit of a dick but give me Tricky Dicky over anyone to have been nominated by the GOP since. 05 Gerald Ford – a bit of a nothing but again, it could have gone so much worse. It pains me that his LGBT stance didn’t really come to prominence during his tenure so I can’t give him more points for it. 07 Jimmy Carter – there’s more parallels across the pond that I initially realised but clearly had so much more about him than Callaghan. Hugely difficult economic situation and didn’t exactly deal with it brilliantly but anyone who legalises homebrewing is a friend. -1 Ronald Reagan – as we’ll see later, the worst mark goes to the one with the worst legacy. At least Dubya had the decency to be hated. 03 George HW Bush – some good foreign moments, but then so did Reagan. Didn’t have the time or the balls to do as much damage as his predecessor or his son. 07 Bill Clinton – a pale imitation of his party’s leading lights but still very much A Good Thing. It says a lot about popular politics when you can get away with all the bombs and poverty you like but you can be impeached for a couple of bugs or a blowjob. 00 George W Bush – they’re not falling for that one again anytime soon 08 Barack Obama – will be seen for now as a disappointment but I’m reserving judgement until we see whether his election will lead to a flood of long-overdue ethnic minority candidates in twenty or thirty years. Extra points for this: And this: In fact most of this: PMs shortly. |
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20th November 2013, 12:41 AM
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#26
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,673 User: 3,272
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04 Harry Truman - How are we judging them? The Marshall Plan was good for the US economically but very tough for the UK
03 Dwight Eisenhower - don't know enough 06 John Kennedy 03 Lyndon Johnson - His involvement in Vietnam overrides any good he may have done 01 Richard Nixon - a crook 02 Gerald Ford - he never expected to be president but what did he do? 05 Jimmy Carter - well meaning but ineffective. Would score far more if his later career counted 01 Ronald Reagan - the ultimate PR president. An amiable right wing buffoon 04 George HW Bush - mostly harmless 07 Bill Clinton - inherited a massive debt and turned it around. Generally a decent bloke. -1 George W Bush - Surely no explanation is necessary 06 Barack Obama - could never live up to some peoples' expectations. However, he should have stood up more to the neanderthal Republicans 11 Clement Attlee - he presided over the introduction of the NHS despite a massive post-war deficit. What else is there to say? 03 Winston Churchill - signed up to the European Convention of Human Rights. Apart from that his 1951-55 term of office (which is what we are supposed to be assessing her. Predictably enough Craig has overlooked that) was pure vanity. He didn't want t be a PM who never won an election. 02 Anthony Eden - Suez 03 Harold Macmillan- Can anyone give an example of what he achieved as PM? 02 Alec Douglas-Home - Rightly dismissed as the 14th earl by Harold Wilson 07 Harold Wilson - Points scored for the social changes he allowed Roy Jenkins to introduce in his 1964-70 period. 1974-76 went less well. 05 Ted Heath - Points gained for taking us into the Common Market (now the EU). Points lost for the three day week 06 James Callaghan - Tried hard but was left with a tough inheritance 00 Margaret Thatcher - not enough room to list her failings 03 John Major - inherited a mess and was incapable of improving anything 05 Tony Blair - very good before 11 Sep 2001, less good afterwards 06 Gordon Brown - took over at almost the worst possible time. Made a decent fist of it despite those problems -1 David Cameron - utterly appalling, clueless. No sense that he has any idea what the government he supposedly leads is doing. |
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20th November 2013, 11:43 AM
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#27
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 BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 2,198 User: 18,849
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 20 2013, 12:41 AM) 04 Harry Truman - How are we judging them? The Marshall Plan was good for the US economically but very tough for the UK 03 Dwight Eisenhower - don't know enough 06 John Kennedy 03 Lyndon Johnson - His involvement in Vietnam overrides any good he may have done 01 Richard Nixon - a crook 02 Gerald Ford - he never expected to be president but what did he do? 05 Jimmy Carter - well meaning but ineffective. Would score far more if his later career counted 01 Ronald Reagan - the ultimate PR president. An amiable right wing buffoon 04 George HW Bush - mostly harmless 07 Bill Clinton - inherited a massive debt and turned it around. Generally a decent bloke. -1 George W Bush - Surely no explanation is necessary 06 Barack Obama - could never live up to some peoples' expectations. However, he should have stood up more to the neanderthal Republicans 11 Clement Attlee - he presided over the introduction of the NHS despite a massive post-war deficit. What else is there to say? 03 Winston Churchill - signed up to the European Convention of Human Rights. Apart from that his 1951-55 term of office (which is what we are supposed to be assessing her. Predictably enough Craig has overlooked that) was pure vanity. He didn't want t be a PM who never won an election. 02 Anthony Eden - Suez 03 Harold Macmillan- Can anyone give an example of what he achieved as PM? 02 Alec Douglas-Home - Rightly dismissed as the 14th earl by Harold Wilson 07 Harold Wilson - Points scored for the social changes he allowed Roy Jenkins to introduce in his 1964-70 period. 1974-76 went less well. 05 Ted Heath - Points gained for taking us into the Common Market (now the EU). Points lost for the three day week 06 James Callaghan - Tried hard but was left with a tough inheritance 00 Margaret Thatcher - not enough room to list her failings 03 John Major - inherited a mess and was incapable of improving anything 05 Tony Blair - very good before 11 Sep 2001, less good afterwards 06 Gordon Brown - took over at almost the worst possible time. Made a decent fist of it despite those problems -1 David Cameron - utterly appalling, clueless. No sense that he has any idea what the government he supposedly leads is doing. Given you are a gay man i am surprised you gave a lower rating to the man that has done more than any other PM on gay rights, than you did to Maggie who bought in Section 28 Cameron is a useless sack of shit ngl but really thought you would rate Maggie lower |
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20th November 2013, 12:23 PM
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#28
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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Craig, you make it really obvious you aren't a gay man and have no idea what the last Labour government did for gay rights if you think Cameron allowing us to call our civil partnerships 'marriage' constitutes him doing more for gay people than any other PM. For a start, Harold Wilson actually made it legal for us to BE. The Blair government gave us pretty much every protection under the sun too - banning employment discrimination etc, preventing people from refusing to serve us in businesses on the basis of sexuality, scrapping Section 28, allowing us to serve in the army openly, equalising the age of consent at 16...I could go on.
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20th November 2013, 12:36 PM
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#29
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 2,198 User: 18,849
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QUOTE(Cassandra @ Nov 20 2013, 12:23 PM) Craig, you make it really obvious you aren't a gay man and have no idea what the last Labour government did for gay rights if you think Cameron allowing us to call our civil partnerships 'marriage' constitutes him doing more for gay people than any other PM. For a start, Harold Wilson actually made it legal for us to BE. The Blair government gave us pretty much every protection under the sun too - banning employment discrimination etc, preventing people from refusing to serve us in businesses on the basis of sexuality, scrapping Section 28, allowing us to serve in the army openly, equalising the age of consent at 16...I could go on. I am not gay and all those things labour did were done and rightly so BUT Cameron has put his entire career on the line for gay rights, membership of the tory party has dropped by 1/3 since he took power and by far the biggest reason given to constituency associations was gay marriage He has gone against the will of huge numbers of his own mp's, huge numbers of party members and so on, stood up to the dinosaurs in his own party, so he does deserve credit there Gay marriage may well be the difference between winning the next election and losing the next election, huge numbers of tories will never vote for them again because of it. Whereas Labour have always been the party of the minorities in the UK, i doubt many deserted the labour party over gay rights |
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20th November 2013, 12:45 PM
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#30
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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Just because he put his career on the line (which I don't buy anyway, not even backbench Tories were stupid enough to try and bring him down when they were so far behind in the polls) doesn't mean he did more for gay rights that Wilson or Blair.
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20th November 2013, 12:56 PM
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#31
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 2,198 User: 18,849
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QUOTE(¿ DESCONTENTO ? @ Nov 20 2013, 12:45 PM) Just because he put his career on the line (which I don't buy anyway, not even backbench Tories were stupid enough to try and bring him down when they were so far behind in the polls) doesn't mean he did more for gay rights that Wilson or Blair. Compared with Maggie though..... Maggie will always be my fave PM, but Clause 28 certainly wasn't her finest hour |
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20th November 2013, 04:38 PM
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#32
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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QUOTE(Sandro Raniere @ Nov 20 2013, 12:56 PM) Compared with Maggie though..... Maggie will always be my fave PM, but Clause 28 certainly wasn't her finest hour No one was comparing her with the homophobe. |
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22nd November 2013, 12:00 AM
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#33
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,673 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(Sandro Raniere @ Nov 20 2013, 11:43 AM) Given you are a gay man i am surprised you gave a lower rating to the man that has done more than any other PM on gay rights, than you did to Maggie who bought in Section 28 Cameron is a useless sack of shit ngl but really thought you would rate Maggie lower When Cameron first stood for parliament he made support for section 28 one of his main themes. As for "doing more than any other PM on gay rights", how? Did he preside over the equalisation of the age of consent? Did he preside over the decriminalisation of homosexual acts? Was he PM when it ceased to be illegal for two men to show affection in public? No on all counts. |
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23rd November 2013, 04:18 PM
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#34
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 11 April 2006
Posts: 4,259 User: 457
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QUOTE(Cassandra @ Nov 14 2013, 12:16 AM) 02 Margaret Thatcher: she was better than Reagan, I'll give her that. She can have two points for a few needed reforms and that's it. // "Economics are the method; the object is to change the heart and soul." // "Children who need to be taught to respect traditional moral values are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay." I prefer this quote from her: "Consensus doesn't give you any direction in life. It's like mixing all the constituent ingredients together but not coming out with a cake .... Democracy is about the people being given a choice between clear policies on clear principles. So they have a lead. They know what they're voting for, and then they can choose." This post has been edited by Danny: 23rd November 2013, 04:18 PM |
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23rd November 2013, 06:08 PM
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#35
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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Obviously
 I prefer the former as I think it summarises precisely how she was able to change society so drastically - the eternal social democratic project of the last thirty years being the quandary of how to influence it back. I'd disagree that consensus doesn't give you a direction on life, or the implication that there is no coherence in revisionism. |
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3rd July 2014, 01:00 PM
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#36
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 637 User: 18,962 
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05 Harry Truman
03 Dwight Eisenhower 01 John Kennedy 05 Lyndon Johnson 00 Richard Nixon 03 Gerald Ford 10 Jimmy Carter 02 Ronald Reagan 02 George HW Bush 05 Bill Clinton -1 George W Bush 11 Barack Obama This post has been edited by TaraElla: 7th November 2014, 11:06 PM |
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6th August 2014, 11:02 AM
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#37
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Poet and Storyteller
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 6,753 User: 166
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4 Harry Truman
1 Dwight D Eisenhower 2 John F Kennedy 5 Lyndon B Johnson 0 Richard M Nixon 2 Gerald Ford 9 Jimmy Carter 1 Ronald Reagan 2 George HW Bush 11 Bill Clinton - call me crazy, but I liked the guy -1 George W Bush 6 Barack Obama 11 Clement Attlee 4 Winston Churchill 3 Anthony Eden 2 Harold Macmillan 1 Alec Douglas-Home 5 Harold Wilson 3 Ted Heath 6 James Callaghan -1 Margaret Thatcher 4 John Major 0 Tony Blair 5 Gordon Brown 2 David Cameron |
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27th May 2017, 09:46 AM
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#38
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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How come this thread is pinned, since it's had no postings (other than this one)
since 2014?
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