Victoria Beckham - Cancelled 2nd Album Discussion

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Victoria Beckham - Cancelled 2nd Album Discussion, Telstar era / "Open Your Eyes" / Damon Dash

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tommie View member profile	Mar 3 2018, 04:15 AM Post #21
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 7 January 2009 Posts: 7,064 User: 8,073	QUOTE(Jay ☆ @ Mar 3 2018, 05:08 AM) You’d totally be nearing a third warning on DenDen by this stage, hen! I was actually half-way about to write up a proposed rap that Victoria was going to add, but I had to stop myself.


spiceboy View member profile	Mar 3 2018, 12:27 PM Post #22
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 6 September 2017 Posts: 11,793 User: 39,568


tommie View member profile	Mar 3 2018, 07:06 PM Post #23
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 7 January 2009 Posts: 7,064 User: 8,073	QUOTE(Spiceboy @ Mar 3 2018, 01:27 PM) And you know it would be absolutely fabulous!


tommie View member profile	Mar 3 2018, 07:08 PM Post #24
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 7 January 2009 Posts: 7,064 User: 8,073	Ei me Sticky Vicky I licky licky Me so hawt Don't try to tell me what you gott!!!1


Piers View member profile	Mar 25 2018, 06:18 PM Post #25
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 25 March 2018 Posts: 393 User: 69,521	I actually really like the Open Your Eyes album with one exception...Let Your Head Go. I know. Unpopular opinion. It's kinda fun in a guilty pleasure sort of way...but I find the lyrics to be clunky and awkward. But. The rest of the album? I think she cracked the code on what a Victoria Beckham album should be. Her first album is okay...but I think it's a bit too obsessed with the "I'm just a normal girl...honest!...SEE!" stuff. The Open Your Eyes album fully embraces the Posh Spice ice queen image. Her team got it right. I'm a lot more conflicted about the Damon Dash album. I like This Groove...and even though it was intended to be dumped, I find myself humming So Cold a lot. I think a lot of the rest of the album is all wrong for her, though...and could've been really embarrassing had it been given an official release. That Dude and Take You There emphasize her voice at its least flattering. I'm glad to see some people like Dat Simple...because I think it's a total trainwreck. All that said...I'm not sure how many big hits she would've gotten out of either album. I think the likes of Should've Known Better and Generate the Flow could have been further top 5 or top 10 contenders...but to me, the only unreleased song of hers that could've landed a #1 was My Love is For Real.


-Jay- View member profile	Jan 31 2022, 03:58 AM Post #26
"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi. Pronouns: he/him Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,405 User: 3,217	Bumping this thread because this era was touched upon in Geri's general discussion: http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?s...t&p=7046583 From what I remember, the admins on DenDen managed to win a CD-R of the unreleased Victoria Beckham demos on eBay (or perhaps they offered the seller a figure they couldn't refuse). This is the CD-R: http://ultimatespice.online.fr/victoriabec...ect/telstar.jpg - it didn't have a title. Almost all of those songs have Victoria's vocals on them, apart from Me Without You - Soulpower and Obsession. I think this happened in 2006, so I was 18 then. I was a mod at the time, but I definitely wasn't deeply involved in the process of went on - I think a lot of it was discussed privately in the admin only forum. I do recall the legality of leaking this music being discussed, the admins didn't want it to be pinpointed to DenDen or anybody specific. I'm not sure why this was decided, but one of the admins edited a selection of the songs (it's been so long since I listened to the edited versions, but I think some of them were shortened, maybe some songs had their structures changed slightly? I don't know if they were remixed though. Maybe someone here is more familiar with the differences between the edited versions and what was on the CD-R). Anyway, after the editing was finished, I'm pretty sure that the admins decided to call this edited version 'Open Your Eyes'. Then it was leaked. The fact the music was put out in the public domain with that as its title, is certainly why that title stuck. With DenDen's team not publicly admitting involvement, I think initially the fans - and then the general public who read about it in news articles - just took it for granted that this was supposedly an unreleased album in its final form, with that as its title... so it stuck. I'm going to assume that some fans were more analytical about it, given that this "album" didn't have Let Your Head Go in its single version, This Groove, or the songs from The Real Beckhams DVD. In 2016, another CD-R leaked, with a lot of Damon Dash songs on it. Interestingly this CD-R had more information, with a specific date on it: 3rd September 2003. For some reason this also ended up being regarded as a separate "scrapped album". I'm pretty sure the previous CD-R was from a few months earlier. The recording process of this era is quite fascinating to me, in regards to how she was initially going in a pop/dance direction, before she pivoted to R&B and Hip-Hop. Which as we know resulted in the Double A Side single which provided a taster of both sounds. 2004 is an interesting but kind of vague year in this story too. 'My Love Is for Real' was recorded in this year, and it was supposed to be a single, before everything went off the rails. A really bad quality file of a remix of the song (Armand Van Helden Mix) leaked in the mid 2000s, I think? A version which really didn't give much of an indication of what the song was like. I can't remember when the Lenny B remix leaked, and then eventually the actual single version leaked. I'm not at all sure how any of these mixes were discovered and leaked. Like I said in the Geri topic, I assume DenDen forum would have had the answers to how it happened. Anyway, what could have been! Based on these leaks, there was great potential for a strong second album. Who knows which songs would have made the cut, and what it really would have been called. I assume that behind the scenes, they never got that far to make those decisions, before the label folded? It's quite lucky that all those songs leaked. I believe they only survived being binned (imagine!) because somebody thought to hold onto them, before making the decision to sell them. If anyone remembers anything more specific that I've forgotten, let us know!


Babyboy View member profile	Jan 31 2022, 08:15 AM Post #27
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 7 September 2017 Posts: 514 User: 39,611	I remember My Love Is For Real was announced as a second single by her during a Marie Claire interview


spiceboy View member profile	Jan 31 2022, 01:56 PM Post #28
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 6 September 2017 Posts: 11,793 User: 39,568	I also remember my love is for real being announced as the second single, always assumed the version I had was the only one and that was the single one. Shame it didn’t get a release in that form I think it could have been a hit for her, obviously Telstar went bust though 🤷‍♂️. Whoever put Open your eyes together (whether they edited it, remixed or whatever) did a great job it’s actually a fab album. I could have seen Victoria having an era similar to Emma’s Free Me era had she released that and promoted it well. However I think we would have got something with more RnB on it as the Damon Dash stuff which would have bombed, she was never and will never be RnB “cool” that she was trying to be.


Sideout View member profile	Jan 31 2022, 10:41 PM Post #29
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 22 September 2020 Posts: 421 User: 113,700	All of the Biff songs from these sessions are A+ Hustler Flow Be With You I Should've Known Better Bittersweet Give It All Away All of these tracks are much better than Headlines and Voodoo. It's a shame none of these songs were repurposed into Spice Girls songs for the greatest hits.


Equinox8 View member profile	Feb 3 2022, 09:07 PM Post #30
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 1 July 2021 Posts: 318 User: 132,865	QUOTE(Babyboy @ Jan 31 2022, 08:15 AM) I remember My Love Is For Real was announced as a second single by her during a Marie Claire interview The Lenny B Remix of that song is what got my attention, to be honest. Shame the full length club mix hasn't surfaced; it's in the hands of a few "special people" though.


Piers View member profile	Feb 6 2022, 02:22 AM Post #31
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 25 March 2018 Posts: 393 User: 69,521	A few thoughts about the scrapped material. So, we know My Love Is For Real is from a third set of recordings for Victoria's album. A third change of direction? I've heard fans claim over the years that Shake It was also from the third sessions...but beats me if we know that for sure. Do we know if the intent was to start completely fresh with recordings a third time? I'm not sure I follow why she was trying to entirely dump all her pop material in 2003 in favor of the Damon Dash stuff. The pop recordings are so obviously stronger than, say, It's That Simple, That Dude, and Valentine. Was it out of the question to just combine the best of all the sessions? To me, the thing to do by 2004 would be to take the best pop tracks (especially the five Biff songs), pair them with This Groove, Resentment, and So Cold from the Damon Dash material, and lastly add My Love Is For Real and Shake It. It would have made a rather strong solo Spice album, I think. Better than the VB album, for sure. Last thought. I admittedly don't know enough about releasing music to gather when payment for a song sample takes place...but I've wondered if the samples Damon Dash used contributed the most to what bankrupted Telstar. A lot of Victoria's recordings with Dash rely heavily on famous song samples...the most prominent cases being The Beatles' Come Together and George Michael's Freedom. There's no way those rights came cheap...especially for what was supposed to be a smaller record label. Granted, the fact Victoria recorded A LOT of material with several high profile collaborators could have played the bigger role in Telstar's demise.


Piers View member profile	Feb 6 2022, 02:41 AM Post #32
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 25 March 2018 Posts: 393 User: 69,521	I know I just said 'last thought'. But here's another last thought. Though it defies logic from a music quality standpoint, I do get her thinking on going solely with the Damon Dash material if her sole intent was to break the US. And I might get some debate on this, but my interpretation is that with a decent song, Victoria would have the best chance of the five girls to make an impact on the US charts...AND a better chance at chart success than even a Spice Girls comeback would have had by the early 2000s. The Spices were perceived as yesterday's news by that point, but there was a very real fascination with the Beckhams. Victoria definitely wasn't viewed as an annoyance in the way the British tabloids were playing her. She and David were seen as a beautiful power couple...and I do think around 2001-2007, she could have struck and capitalized on it. Could any of the Damon Dash material have taken her there? My thought is This Groove was too subtle to launch her in a new market. Resentment might have played out okay as a follow-up single to something. Going outside the Dash stuff, I think My Love Is For Real might have stood a chance at getting a respectable spot on a chart.


tommie View member profile	Feb 6 2022, 06:10 AM Post #33
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 7 January 2009 Posts: 7,064 User: 8,073	I don't think Victoria stood a chance to break the US market - first of all it's a huge market that requires a lot of the ground work and I don't see Victoria (just like the other girls) sticking to it since it would mean travel all over to small and obscure stations. Second of all, when the US does tend to pick up a foreign artist it tends to be because it's something different than the US artists provide; when UK artists tend to try to hard to fit into the market they, well, flop (see: Spice Girls, Kylie et al). So I don't think Damon Dash would've helped her break the market, if anything it might've worked against her since why would they play Victoria Beckham when they could play Beyoncé? Also, I think samples are cleared and paid if they end up using them. Most of the Damon Dash tracks ended up on the floor so they probably didn't have to bother. This post has been edited by tommie: Feb 6 2022, 06:12 AM


Piers View member profile	Feb 6 2022, 03:43 PM Post #34
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 25 March 2018 Posts: 393 User: 69,521	QUOTE(tommie @ Feb 6 2022, 12:10 AM) I don't think Victoria stood a chance to break the US market - first of all it's a huge market that requires a lot of the ground work and I don't see Victoria (just like the other girls) sticking to it since it would mean travel all over to small and obscure stations. Second of all, when the US does tend to pick up a foreign artist it tends to be because it's something different than the US artists provide; when UK artists tend to try to hard to fit into the market they, well, flop (see: Spice Girls, Kylie et al). So I don't think Damon Dash would've helped her break the market, if anything it might've worked against her since why would they play Victoria Beckham when they could play Beyoncé? I should reword what I said because...no, I don't think the Damon Dash stuff would have charted well either...though there may have been an interest in what Resentment was about. My thought was more...could My Love Is For Real have gotten her a bit of traction? I just base that on how I remember people reacting to her during that time. A lot of people in the US were talking about the Beckhams...and it was the sort of people who wouldn't know the real names of the other four Spices...and wouldn't even recognize the other four walking down the street. For them...the Beckhams were relationship goals. Victoria's face was all over Times Square. The late night shows talked about them. The fascination was there...even without the Beckhams trying especially hard (there was something of a push for exposure in 2007). Would that have translated into music sales? Maybe not. But I'm thinking if she'd released My Love Is For Real...accompanied with a sexy video featuring David (think the 2007 W magazine shoot in video form)...maybe? She did have Simon Fuller on her side at the time...