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Finding Neverland musical, Gary writing the musical score

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milly View member profile	Apr 16 2015, 04:34 AM Post #21
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 1 February 2014 Posts: 1,069 User: 20,540	The review in The Guardian is atrocious, but I can't say I'm surprised. For a paper who never said a good word about Gary, it certainly lived up to the expectations. I'm not so fussed about "critical" reviews. Of course, I'd want them to be fair and positive, but considering the UK press has it in for Gary and the US one has it in for Harvey Weinstein, fairness seems like a far away target. Besides, FN has already won enough awards to prove that it's a quality show, which counts more than some reviews and proves that Tony awards are not so far fetched under these circumstances. I just hope that people reading the reviews don't let themselves influenced by what they read and wait to make up their own minds.


milly View member profile	Apr 16 2015, 04:52 AM Post #22
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 1 February 2014 Posts: 1,069 User: 20,540	Nice review: http://www.showbiz411.com/2015/04/15/broad..._source=dlvr.it "Gary Barlow wrote the music in a sort of Beatle-y, Elton John lite motif, with plenty of catchy songs like “When Your Feet Don’t Touch the Ground,” “Better,” “Circus of Your Mind,” and “Believe.”" My main problem with the reviews is that they don't seem to grasp the concept that a musical is not a documentary and it doesn't have to be truthful to the real story. I don't know why it's so difficult for these "critics" to understand that a musical is a work of FICTION. Well, I'm not sure they really don't understand, but they don't want to understand because then they'd be forced to admit that FN is good. And I'm also annoyed that these critics are so prejudiced against pop. I've read a review saying that the score was to be expected to be sup-par after hearing what These Days sounded like. To me, that sounds like the music had been judged even long before being heard, on the mere basis that it was pop and not the conventional theatre music. "I was not actually surprised by how badly written the show is; I suspected from listening to chirpy Take That hits like “These Days” that the songs would be inapt, and I half-expected the tired “fairy” jokes and self-referential winks. " http://www.vulture.com/2015/04/theater-rev...-neverland.html To be honest, after reading several reviews, all the critics sound like snobs. This post has been edited by milly: Apr 16 2015, 06:58 AM


dylandog View member profile	Apr 16 2015, 07:00 AM Post #23
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 25 February 2014 Posts: 370 User: 20,635	Sadly my worst fears have come true. The signs were not good prior to opening night. There appears to be a distinct difference between the critics and the paying public on this one. The broadway forum has been largely negative but in comparison facebook reviews and other fan reviews have been exceptional. I have heard around 5 or 6 of the songs from the musical and I genuinely think they are fantastic and some of the best work that Gary has done in recent years. I tend to be objective even when it comes to Gary and TT and I love the songs, I really do. It appears the success of the musical will rest on its popular appeal. Can't see any or few Tony nominations but I would love it to prove the critics wrong and have similar success to Wicked.


jay727 View member profile	Apr 16 2015, 07:04 AM Post #24
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 10 November 2010 Posts: 4,017 User: 12,273	Critics are always going to go the extra mile to be critical. You find that once someone has given a poor review then the rest of them follow. Found that was the same with the Phantom sequel. Doesn't matter what a few select say - Aladdin was ripped to shreds but is one of the best selling shows on Broadway. The general public seems to really enjoy it, they will make the show a success, not a couple of moody critics lol This post has been edited by jay727: Apr 16 2015, 07:05 AM


milly View member profile	Apr 16 2015, 07:31 AM Post #25
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 1 February 2014 Posts: 1,069 User: 20,540	Glad to see Eliot finding the bright side of things: eliot kennedy ‏@NYCSteelerfan Well, the critics hate @NeverlandBway which probably means we have a true hit and will run for years. Brilliant. I just hope people won't let themselves influenced by the reviews.


dylandog View member profile	Apr 16 2015, 07:48 AM Post #26
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 25 February 2014 Posts: 370 User: 20,635	When you think about it Gary has never had an easy ride in the music business. I'm perplexed when Rob is seen as an artist who's struggled and faced adversity. The opposite is true. Rob has achieved critical acclaim throughout his career and has never faced the vitriol Gary has, nor has he faced the personal tragedy Gary has. I think that Gary has come to terms with the UK press and their opinions of him. I genuinely find it odd- yes the tax issue is an area for criticism, but prior to this large sections of the media were still negative - rather strange in my view. In relation to FN, critics are entitled to their opinions and if they don't like it, then they don't like it. As long as their reviews have been reached fairly then I guess artists have to take it on the chin and move on. However I do feel that there is some kind of backlash against the pop score. After reading very negative reviews on the Broadway forum I decided to listen to the score from a new musical which is getting rave reviews - and I absolutely hated it. As I mentioned before the next month or two is significant in terms of longevity. I understand the show has extended its run until December - hopefully the awful reviews will not impact too significantly on sales.


Kath View member profile	Apr 16 2015, 09:49 PM Post #27
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 24 February 2007 Posts: 20,625 User: 2,980	I did find the comment from vinceprince quite amusing though. 'I'm writing a musical about Noah and the Ark. Never Findingland' Whoever said that bad reviews make good box-office was right though. The Wiz was panned and ran for several years.


dylandog View member profile	Apr 16 2015, 11:11 PM Post #28
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 25 February 2014 Posts: 370 User: 20,635	Sadly the UK press has picked up on the poor reviews, although there are some positive ones out there. The knives are certainly out at this stage with the Daily Mail article focusing on the negativity towards the score in particular, hence the limelight on Gary and Eliot. Eliot has posted some twitter comments which hint at his disappointment and perhaps annoyance, but I don't envisage any twitter comments from Gary as it's not his style. I tell you what GB has probably come in for more criticism in recent times than any other MOR pop artist I can think of. Hope he continues to have a very thick skin as a lot of people with relish this set back. Privately he must be gutted with the reaction to date as I don't think it was expected, especially given the awards the show recently won in Boston. I still maintain that there are some quite lovely songs in this musical - but hey what do I know? He's suppose to be writing the score for another HW production, but given Harvey's ruthlessness I do wonder if Gary may be asked to step aside?


milly View member profile	Apr 17 2015, 05:09 AM Post #29
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 1 February 2014 Posts: 1,069 User: 20,540	QUOTE(dylandog @ Apr 17 2015, 02:11 AM) Sadly the UK press has picked up on the poor reviews, although there are some positive ones out there. The knives are certainly out at this stage with the Daily Mail article focusing on the negativity towards the score in particular, hence the limelight on Gary and Eliot. Eliot has posted some twitter comments which hint at his disappointment and perhaps annoyance, but I don't envisage any twitter comments from Gary as it's not his style. I tell you what GB has probably come in for more criticism in recent times than any other MOR pop artist I can think of. Hope he continues to have a very thick skin as a lot of people with relish this set back. Privately he must be gutted with the reaction to date as I don't think it was expected, especially given the awards the show recently won in Boston. I still maintain that there are some quite lovely songs in this musical - but hey what do I know? He's suppose to be writing the score for another HW production, but given Harvey's ruthlessness I do wonder if Gary may be asked to step aside? I'm glad you stated this already, in a calm manner, because I'm so pissed right now I could swear (and I never swear). I've just read the DM article and I'm fuming. When did this all become Gary's fault? Now he's responsible for the whole show?!! That article is so distorted and full of lies I wouldn't know where to begin. The reviews haven't been great, but, aside from very few, none of the reviews said the score was awful. And the idiots commenting on the DM get on my nerves as well. I don't get why the press relishes so much in Gary's misfortune and why he is always targeted in a negative way. I can think of lots of "less talented" (so I don't say something worse) "artists" who get continuous praise, no matter what they do. And I really really don't understand why the UK doesn't support its internationally successful artists. You'd think they'd be proud of Gary for making it onto the Broadway. Anyway, my feelings remain the same towards the critics: musical snobs, prejudiced towards pop and with a beef with Harvey. The score is absolutely beautiful and so touching. All those people in the audience loving it, they can't all be stupid and deaf and only the critics the ones holding the supreme truth. This post has been edited by milly: Apr 17 2015, 07:05 AM


Kath View member profile	Apr 18 2015, 09:51 PM Post #30
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 24 February 2007 Posts: 20,625 User: 2,980	Don't know what you're all getting your knickers in a twist over! Its done brilliantly in advance sales - and I'm sure Gary (and Harvey) are more impressed with the greenbacks than bothered by what the critics say. http://www.thespec.com/whatson-story/55651...-advance-sales/


milly View member profile	Apr 19 2015, 05:16 AM Post #31
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 1 February 2014 Posts: 1,069 User: 20,540	QUOTE(Kath @ Apr 19 2015, 12:51 AM) Don't know what you're all getting your knickers in a twist over! Its done brilliantly in advance sales - and I'm sure Gary (and Harvey) are more impressed with the greenbacks than bothered by what the critics say. http://www.thespec.com/whatson-story/55651...-advance-sales/ This is not really about the musical doing well or not - I'm sure it will be successful and deservedly so. For me, this is about the press humiliating Gary once again just for the fun of it. Even the new article in Daily Fail about the impressive sales was turned into an article about how this musical is a failure and how the whole blame lies with Gary. There are some decent articles as well, emphasising the fact that the critics might have it in for Harvey, which would explain the discrepancies between the reviews during previews and the "official" reviews, but who's gonna read and care about those articles when the big tabloids only take the information they want and then distort it as they please, only to feed their hateful readers? I just don't get this pleasure of hitting a man time and time again, creating the image of a worthless human being, never mind artist. I'm not so sure Gary doesn't care about reviews. Of course audiences' reaction is more important, but it must have hurt him reading all those negative remarks. If he didn't care about reviews, he wouldn't be posting the positive ones. I still remember him saying, during a 90s interview, that he used to cry himself to sleep whenever they got a bad review. Even last year, there was an article about how he got very depressed about some of the negative reviews for his solo album. He's just a human being, after all, I doubt that bad words just fly over his head.


elisabeth1973 View member profile	Apr 19 2015, 07:22 AM Post #32
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 9 January 2013 Posts: 441 User: 18,130	I agree that he could be hurt by critics, all of us would react similar. The critic of Rudebox made Robbie almost retire. Critics can be very hurtful. But I guess Gary is not called 'Teflon Gary' for nothing. Gary knows that the box office does not count by now. The question is if the audience success can be maintained, the other question is Harvey W. He is not interested in money. He has enough. He wants a Tony and likely according to the American broadsheets and Variety skips those who cannot provide this. The most critic hit the songs and so Eliot and Gary could (not have to) lose his support, which leaves them in the dark again. Gary knows this. He also knows that critic wise either the TT album, his solo album as well as the musical are not very appreciated aide of the hard core fans. The success of the solo effort anywhere else than the UK and Ireland, as well as the TT album even in the UK shows that. He should simply stay away a bit like Robbie stays away from the UK with his current tour and people may appreciate him again. But it is also a fact that soapy ballads are not in in the moment and it is another fact that TT fans are good in having a selective view. However, this is how fans should be and there is still hope for the musical.


milly View member profile	Apr 19 2015, 07:53 AM Post #33
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 1 February 2014 Posts: 1,069 User: 20,540	If Harvey disposes of Gary just because of some pretentious critics, then he's a fool. He hired Gary because he liked his offering and the audiences love it as well. Harvey may not be in it for the money, but I'm sure he's in it for the success and impressive sales equal success at this point. It's true that we have to wait and see if the show maintains its current success, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed it will. The show already has 7 awards, a Tony would be amazing, but I don't think it's a necessity. To be fair, though, the score was not the main weakness of the musical, according to the reviews. This is just an invention of the press. Most of the reviews were mainly bothered by the anachronisms in the play. I don't agree, however, that Gary should take some time off. Regardless of the "critics" - who, imo, are by no means highly intelligent beings -, the solo album did really well and it's still my favorite album, so far, and III isn't a failure either. Gary and the boys have to keep on making music and keeping fans satisfied. After all, it's fans who matter, not journalists.


dylandog View member profile	Apr 19 2015, 01:10 PM Post #34
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 25 February 2014 Posts: 370 User: 20,635	I don't see why Gary or the others should 'stay away'. They love what they do and they still have a sizable audience. They have said time and time again that they didn't want to be away from their families for too long, so they made a conscious decision not to promote too much outside of the UK. Ultimately we will never know if they could have made some inroads internationally, but given their ages it would have been unlikely. I think Gary will be hurt by the publicity surrounding FN. Whilst he is a populist and sales are more important to him than critical acclaim he will undoubtedly have wanted critical affirmation of his work. HW is a business man and he'll look to recoup his original outlay; however I also think this project has been something of a labour of love for him. He's spoken openly about reinventing the musical since its first premier in Leicester and the Tonys was his ultimate goal. I don't think any of the production team, including Diane Paulus or HW expected such negativity from the critics. The chance of Tony nominations are poor but they may have shot at some of the more minor awards. I've been reading forums over the past week and the feedback from the general public has been astonishing. They appear to love the production including the score. Facebook has something in the region of 160 reviews most of which are excellent, with 1 poor, 1 fair and 1 good. Only time will tell if the public's acclaim with prove robust enough to counteract the theatre critics, but what is clear at the moment is that the vast majority of theatre goers who have seen the musical love it. I genuinely think the score, at least the songs I've heard are absolutely wonderful and some of the best work Gary has done.


dylandog View member profile	Apr 19 2015, 01:18 PM Post #35
BuzzJack Regular Joined: 25 February 2014 Posts: 370 User: 20,635	Re above: just to be more specific. The current facebook forum reads as : (203) 5 * (12) 4* (1) 3* (1) 2* (1)*1. Granted this is not a scientific measure but it's the only one we have to gauge the popularity of the show. Another forum shows similar results. The public view of this musical seems totally at odds with the theatre critics - don't know how common this is?


milly View member profile	Apr 21 2015, 06:26 PM Post #36
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 1 February 2014 Posts: 1,069 User: 20,540	For a crap show (as critics say), it sure gets nominated for awards: http://thebroadwayblog.com/2015/04/21/1230...ard-nominations


jay727 View member profile	Apr 23 2015, 10:00 AM Post #37
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 10 November 2010 Posts: 4,017 User: 12,273	That's very good to see! The critics have their own agenda and all follow each other on balance. They can't be seen to be like the normal people lol


Kath View member profile	Apr 23 2015, 08:52 PM Post #38
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 24 February 2007 Posts: 20,625 User: 2,980	QUOTE(jay727 @ Apr 23 2015, 11:00 AM) That's very good to see! The critics have their own agenda and all follow each other on balance. They can't be seen to be like the normal people lol I think critics like the song content of their musicals to be (for want of better words) 'heavy and substantial' they don't like lightweight/fluffy/nonsense songs (pop songs I suppose), they like the musical and lyrical content to really tie in with the story as a whole and not just be 'incidental' (which is what I think they believe the Kennedy/Barlow songs to be). I agree in a sense - but in another - I think its a bit snobby. If Eliot and Gary's songs are a bit forgettable and throwaway - so what - they are apt for the time. Hey - we've long gone past those heady days of the 'true' musical (The King and I, Sound of Music, South Pacific) - musicals have moved on as have their audiences (some may say for the worse) but they have moved on. We don't have time to register and cogitate a deep and meaningful score anymore - and why should we? These are throwaway times as is our art it appears. Anyway - I think the critics have done the show a favour with their bad reviews - we all love to prove a critic wrong. This post has been edited by Kath: Apr 23 2015, 08:57 PM


milly View member profile	Apr 24 2015, 04:05 AM Post #39
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 1 February 2014 Posts: 1,069 User: 20,540	Kath, still not bored of trashing everything Gary does? Your posts are very amusing


Kath View member profile	Apr 24 2015, 04:45 PM Post #40
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 24 February 2007 Posts: 20,625 User: 2,980	QUOTE(milly @ Apr 24 2015, 05:05 AM) Kath, still not bored of trashing everything Gary does? Your posts are very amusing There was nothing trashing about that post. The songs are light and fluffy - what's wrong with that? Come on - line up the songs in this against say - the songs in 'Cabaret' - there is no comparison! The songs in FN are lightweight pop songs - nothing more. I'm not saying they're bad - just lightweight.