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 OPINION POLLS II · Neck and Neck, The final 50 days |
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 19th March 2015, 12:39 AM
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#1141
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 something you consider rare
Joined: 25 February 2007
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That does not make his job harder, for god's sake! Persuading people he can win *is* his job, and if anything the fact that even members of his own party have a low expectation of him is a help to his chances, because it allows his policies to do the talking. Of course, the policies need to be good for that to be true. If he isn't in fact capable of persuading people he can lead, he certainly isn't capable of actually leading this country. The talk is the easy part, the walk that follows is the difficult bit.
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19th March 2015, 10:17 AM
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#1142
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
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QUOTE(jark @ Mar 19 2015, 12:39 AM)  That does not make his job harder, for god's sake! Persuading people he can win *is* his job, and if anything the fact that even members of his own party have a low expectation of him is a help to his chances, because it allows his policies to do the talking. Of course, the policies need to be good for that to be true. If he isn't in fact capable of persuading people he can lead, he certainly isn't capable of actually leading this country. The talk is the easy part, the walk that follows is the difficult bit. We're used to an entire generation of politicians who promise more than they can deliver. Miliband's entire leadership has been defined around the idea of under-promising and over-delivering, but it's become truer than he must have anticipated because he's been undermined at every turn by a Shadow Cabinet that's more right wing than him and baulks at his more progressive ideas. The tuition fees example shows exactly what I mean. He ran for leadership being fully in favour of a grad tax, but some people around him were so reluctant to cut fees at all that it's ended up being watered down to this £6k compromise that nobody really wanted. |
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19th March 2015, 12:45 PM
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#1143
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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QUOTE(jark @ Mar 19 2015, 01:39 AM) That does not make his job harder, for god's sake! Persuading people he can win *is* his job, and if anything the fact that even members of his own party have a low expectation of him is a help to his chances, because it allows his policies to do the talking. Of course, the policies need to be good for that to be true. If he isn't in fact capable of persuading people he can lead, he certainly isn't capable of actually leading this country. The talk is the easy part, the walk that follows is the difficult bit. How on earth would it not make your job harder if you aren't getting as much support from your colleagues as your opponents are? Not that there aren't reasons for that, but it's a little bizarre to think it isn't a factor. |
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19th March 2015, 03:53 PM
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#1144
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,865 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Mar 19 2015, 11:17 AM) We're used to an entire generation of politicians who promise more than they can deliver. Miliband's entire leadership has been defined around the idea of under-promising and over-delivering, but it's become truer than he must have anticipated because he's been undermined at every turn by a Shadow Cabinet that's more right wing than him and baulks at his more progressive ideas. The tuition fees example shows exactly what I mean. He ran for leadership being fully in favour of a grad tax, but some people around him were so reluctant to cut fees at all that it's ended up being watered down to this £6k compromise that nobody really wanted. He should have called the bluff or resigned. A leader who presides over other people's views will end up inevitably going for the least controversial route. Of course dictators are even worse cos they don't listen but there should be some issues that are important that could be lines in the sand... Heaven knows the libdems managed a few lines and that was with Tories! Ed should be able to persuade his own party on some issues and then speak loudly about them forcefully. |
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19th March 2015, 04:59 PM
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#1145
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 11 April 2006
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QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Mar 19 2015, 03:53 PM) He should have called the bluff or resigned. A leader who presides over other people's views will end up inevitably going for the least controversial route. Of course dictators are even worse cos they don't listen but there should be some issues that are important that could be lines in the sand... Heaven knows the libdems managed a few lines and that was with Tories! Ed should be able to persuade his own party on some issues and then speak loudly about them forcefully. Exactly. Those people who are opposing him in the shadow cabinet are only there because he allows them to be there. If he'd had the guts to force them to either sign up to what he wanted or be shown the door in that long period where Labour were ahead in the polls (and thus when his position was secure no matter what he did), all this could've been avoided. But he took the coward's way out, said completely contradictory things to the different wings of the party to avoid rocking the boat by telling the "Blairites" what they didn't want to hear, and now his chickens have come home to roost. One of the basic requirements of a party leader is to make your case and have the willpower to make sure your case prevails. This post has been edited by Danny: 19th March 2015, 05:03 PM |
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19th March 2015, 05:46 PM
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#1146
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(Danny @ Mar 19 2015, 04:59 PM) Exactly. Those people who are opposing him in the shadow cabinet are only there because he allows them to be there. If he'd had the guts to force them to either sign up to what he wanted or be shown the door in that long period where Labour were ahead in the polls (and thus when his position was secure no matter what he did), all this could've been avoided. But he took the coward's way out, said completely contradictory things to the different wings of the party to avoid rocking the boat by telling the "Blairites" what they didn't want to hear, and now his chickens have come home to roost. One of the basic requirements of a party leader is to make your case and have the willpower to make sure your case prevails. And this man wants to run the country 
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19th March 2015, 05:48 PM
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#1147
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Mar 19 2015, 05:46 PM) And this man wants to run the country Because David Cameron exerts such control over his MPs. |
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19th March 2015, 06:04 PM
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#1148
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
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Meanwhile, the full extent of Labour's Tory-esque cuts programme is revealed:
http://labourlist.org/2015/03/labours-fisc...-end-next-year/ |
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19th March 2015, 07:37 PM
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#1149
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 11 April 2006
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Mar 19 2015, 06:04 PM) Meanwhile, the full extent of Labour's Tory-esque cuts programme is revealed: http://labourlist.org/2015/03/labours-fisc...-end-next-year/ Honest question: has a message of "Labour cuts are nicer than Tory cuts" ever convinced anyone in your experience? Cuts are cuts are cuts. This post has been edited by Danny: 19th March 2015, 07:37 PM |
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19th March 2015, 07:42 PM
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#1150
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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Not all cuts are equal. Scrapping Housing Benefit for all under 25s isn't exactly the same in impact as cutting councillor allowances in half or reducing the number of Trident submarines from 4 to 3.
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19th March 2015, 08:11 PM
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#1151
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
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Another UKIP parliamentary candidate has been suspended, this one for leaving money just resting in her account. I wonder if they'll have any candidates left by May at the rate they're dropping off.
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19th March 2015, 10:00 PM
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#1152
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Mar 19 2015, 08:11 PM) Another UKIP parliamentary candidate has been suspended, this one for leaving money just resting in her account. I wonder if they'll have any candidates left by May at the rate they're dropping off. Father Ted would have been so proud of his influence.... |
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20th March 2015, 12:05 PM
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#1153
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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QUOTE(Danny @ Mar 19 2015, 07:37 PM) Honest question: has a message of "Labour cuts are nicer than Tory cuts" ever convinced anyone in your experience? Cuts are cuts are cuts. Why would it need to? "Labour cuts are smaller than Tory cuts" is as bad/honest (delete as appropriate) as it gets, and it's actually correct. Please do us a favour and read the OBR report's summary and then compare it to the Labour position. |
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20th March 2015, 10:57 PM
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#1154
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
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Sky News quoting at least two newspapers this weekend saying that Cameron plans to "cling to power", claiming a "moral victory" if Labour have most seats but Tories have most votes. Also it's reported that he'll go for a minority government rather than a coalition with anyone.
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20th March 2015, 11:56 PM
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#1155
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Mar 20 2015, 10:57 PM) Sky News quoting at least two newspapers this weekend saying that Cameron plans to "cling to power", claiming a "moral victory" if Labour have most seats but Tories have most votes. Also it's reported that he'll go for a minority government rather than a coalition with anyone. That would fit in with his general hypocrisy. After all, it's his party that was the strongest supporter of the electoral system that makes such a scenario a possibility. Of course, his chances of getting a Queen's Speech through in those circumstances are not great. Still, I suppose Al Gore might have some sympathy with him. It's been said by some commentators for some time that Cameron is more likely to try to lead a minority government than another coalition. The same has been said of Labour. However, in order for such a government to succeed, they need at least one major opposition party (SNP or Lib Dems) either to vote with them or to abstain. The chances of Cameron's Tories doing that when they aren't even the largest party are slim. Still, it would be amusing to see Cameron desperately seeking help from the SNP
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21st March 2015, 01:38 PM
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#1156
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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He was clearly talking about 'economic plans'. |
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25th March 2015, 07:14 AM
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#1157
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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SNP 'could block Tory government'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32045419 Somebody needs to remind Alex Salmond that the government just proposed a massive load of tax relief for the oil industry (which is otherwise in total collapse up in Scotland right now). |
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25th March 2015, 02:05 PM
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#1158
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 11 April 2006
Posts: 4,259 User: 457
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Lib Dem ferrets fighting in a (very small) sack...
QUOTE The business secretary, Vince Cable, has said that Liberal Democrat MP Tim Farron was not currently seen as a credible leader for the party. “I mean, he’s a very good campaigning MP, but he’s never been in government and has never had to make difficult decisions and I think his credibility isn’t great. “You know, he’s an entertaining speaker and has a bit of a fan club. But I suspect he would not be seen as a very credible leader, at least now. Maybe in five, 10 years time, things are different.” Cable added: “The closer we get to an election and the more uncertain it seems, the more people will want people who are seen to be competent and reliable.” http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/m...ays-vince-cable I think Vince Cable would be a better choice for leader than Farron anyway, personally. |
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25th March 2015, 05:06 PM
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#1159
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Mar 25 2015, 07:14 AM) SNP 'could block Tory government' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32045419 Somebody needs to remind Alex Salmond that the government just proposed a massive load of tax relief for the oil industry (which is otherwise in total collapse up in Scotland right now). Also remind him that he's no longer SNP leader and not even an MP yet! Talk about wanting the limelight!! |
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25th March 2015, 06:42 PM
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#1160
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WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
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The idea of the SNP and Milliband been in Government together, would like something out of a horror story. Awful thought.
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