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 Pseudo-relevant things the Lib Dems are doing |
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 16th September 2019, 05:03 AM
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#201
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364 
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Sep 15 2019, 02:07 PM)  If there’s a democratically elected government at holyrood on the manifesto commitment to hold it, then there is no justification to deny it. True enough - but what if the Westminster parliament decided it was only advisory... 
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16th September 2019, 07:16 AM
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#202
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,671 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Sep 16 2019, 06:00 AM) Whereas one *with* he consent of the UK gov't also has no legal status, according to some Remainers...  Oh dear, not again. We are a parliamentary democracy. That means parliament is sovereign unless it specifically legislates otherwise. With the AV referendum, they did so. The result was binding. With the EU referendum, they consciously did not. The result was not binding. |
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16th September 2019, 07:35 AM
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#203
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Sep 16 2019, 08:16 AM) Oh dear, not again. We are a parliamentary democracy. That means parliament is sovereign unless it specifically legislates otherwise. With the AV referendum, they did so. The result was binding. With the EU referendum, they consciously did not. The result was not binding. I suspect whether they are made binding or not, depends on how confident they are of winning them...
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16th September 2019, 08:05 AM
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#204
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,419 User: 12,929             |
I'm rather happy with the Lib Dem official policy to revoke Article 50. For one, about time one of our political parties did so (note that it'll be enacted with a Lib Dem majority, and if we get to that unlikely point then I think the issue is settled) because it was insane that such a popular position wasn't officially being represented as policy even if the LDs obviously agreed with it, for another, it allows a lot of wiggle room for a pact or negotiation with a party looking for a People's Vote.
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16th September 2019, 08:19 AM
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#205
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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I think if Labour gets most seats but not a majority and the Lib-Dems get 50-60 each then Labour would rather go with the SNP. Can't see the LD gaining so many though myself. Anyway Swinson's already said that she wouldn't work with Corbyn.
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16th September 2019, 08:22 AM
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#206
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 Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,081 User: 3,474
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Sep 16 2019, 06:03 AM) True enough - but what if the Westminster parliament decided it was only advisory... Westminster can do what it wants, once it gives permission to hold it via section 30 order then a Yes vote would allow Scotland to repeal the Act of Union as passed by the Scottish Parliament in the v early 1700’s and declare independence. As ref was held under section 30 it would be deemed legal and within the competence of the Scottish Parliament to do so. Westminster can do whatever it wants but it’d have no standing in national or international law. I see what you were aiming for but you’re not smart enough to pull it off. Referendum via the Section 30 Order would be binding and up to the Scottish Parliament to act on the result not Westminster |
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16th September 2019, 08:31 AM
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#207
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,071 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Sep 16 2019, 09:22 AM) Westminster can do what it wants, once it gives permission to hold it via section 30 order then a Yes vote would allow Scotland to repeal the Act of Union as passed by the Scottish Parliament in the v early 1700’s and declare independence. As ref was held under section 30 it would be deemed legal and within the competence of the Scottish Parliament to do so. Westminster can do whatever it wants but it’d have no standing in national or international law. I see what you were aiming for but you’re not smart enough to pull it off. Referendum via the Section 30 Order would be binding and up to the Scottish Parliament to act on the result not Westminster Wham bam! You just left the gammon bald! Snatched. |
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16th September 2019, 08:32 AM
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#208
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Sep 16 2019, 09:22 AM) Westminster can do what it wants, once it gives permission to hold it via section 30 order then a Yes vote would allow Scotland to repeal the Act of Union as passed by the Scottish Parliament in the v early 1700’s and declare independence. As ref was held under section 30 it would be deemed legal and within the competence of the Scottish Parliament to do so. Westminster can do whatever it wants but it’d have no standing in national or international law. I see what you were aiming for but you’re not smart enough to pull it off. Referendum via the Section 30 Order would be binding and up to the Scottish Parliament to act on the result not Westminster But the Scottish Parliament would still need Westminster's cooperation to deal with all the minutiae, and as the Brexit process has proved, they can fight like cornered rats to defend their position, regardless of the will of the electorate. |
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16th September 2019, 08:39 AM
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#209
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,081 User: 3,474
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Sep 16 2019, 09:32 AM) But the Scottish Parliament would still need Westminster's cooperation to deal with all the minutiae, and as the Brexit process has proved, they can fight like cornered rats to defend their position, regardless of the will of the electorate. Does it tho? As brexit has proven we could just go a no deal Scotexit. Please don’t make the mistake of overestimating your hand in this negotiation as well. England doesn’t produce enough Electric or have enough fresh water to survive on its own. Scotland exports both to England. Our Oil also shores up the value of the pound. You need us more than we need you. Why else do you think Westminster fought so hard and put out such a dogged project fear campaign in 2014? |
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16th September 2019, 08:42 AM
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#210
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,071 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Sep 16 2019, 09:32 AM) But the Scottish Parliament would still need Westminster's cooperation to deal with all the minutiae, and as the Brexit process has proved, they can fight like cornered rats to defend their position, regardless of the will of the electorate. "Cornered rats". Thrre is no UNIFORM WILL of the electorate. Stop that nonsense. The Nazis used that lie to suspend patliament, oop, take emergency powers and cause a coup. Just stop it. |
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16th September 2019, 09:23 PM
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#211
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,151 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Sep 16 2019, 09:22 AM) Westminster can do what it wants, once it gives permission to hold it via section 30 order then a Yes vote would allow Scotland to repeal the Act of Union as passed by the Scottish Parliament in the v early 1700’s and declare independence. As ref was held under section 30 it would be deemed legal and within the competence of the Scottish Parliament to do so. Westminster can do whatever it wants but it’d have no standing in national or international law. I see what you were aiming for but you’re not smart enough to pull it off. Referendum via the Section 30 Order would be binding and up to the Scottish Parliament to act on the result not Westminster I'm just raging that SF so poorly negotiated the GFA to leave the future border poll in the hands of the British government - why would they ever WANT to give nationalists a poll!? |
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17th September 2019, 05:05 AM
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#212
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Sep 16 2019, 09:39 AM) Does it tho? As brexit has proven we could just go a no deal Scotexit. Please don’t make the mistake of overestimating your hand in this negotiation as well. England doesn’t produce enough Electric or have enough fresh water to survive on its own. Scotland exports both to England. Our Oil also shores up the value of the pound. You need us more than we need you. Why else do you think Westminster fought so hard and put out such a dogged project fear campaign in 2014? ISTM the difficulties with attaining Brexit prove just the opposite. There would be economic, political, legal, etc issues that would have to be drawn up in a formal document, and that is a process that cannot be glossed over. QUOTE(Algernon Monqueef @ Sep 16 2019, 09:42 AM) "Cornered rats". Thrre is no UNIFORM WILL of the electorate. Stop that nonsense. The Nazis used that lie to suspend patliament, oop, take emergency powers and cause a coup. Just stop it. So now you think Leavers are going to set Westminster on fire, and blame it on Remainers? 
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17th September 2019, 07:58 PM
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#213
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(Izzy @ Sep 16 2019, 09:05 AM) I'm rather happy with the Lib Dem official policy to revoke Article 50. For one, about time one of our political parties did so (note that it'll be enacted with a Lib Dem majority, and if we get to that unlikely point then I think the issue is settled) because it was insane that such a popular position wasn't officially being represented as policy even if the LDs obviously agreed with it, for another, it allows a lot of wiggle room for a pact or negotiation with a party looking for a People's Vote. Swinson and the LD's can promise anything they like as they know, and we know, that they'll never get a majority to implement any of it. |
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17th September 2019, 08:22 PM
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#214
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,071 User: 18,639
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Same with the Brexshit party.
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18th September 2019, 05:21 AM
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#215
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Algernon Monqueef @ Sep 17 2019, 09:22 PM) Same with the Brexshit party. Minor parties don't need power, only influence - as the LD's themselves had 2010-2015. |
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18th September 2019, 08:38 AM
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#216
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,071 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Sep 18 2019, 06:21 AM) Minor parties don't need power, only influence - as the LD's themselves had 2010-2015. Exactly. And Labout will havr to choose between a coalition with Lib Dems revokin a50 or one with the SNP with a second independence ref. |
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18th September 2019, 09:45 AM
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#217
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Algernon Monqueef @ Sep 18 2019, 09:38 AM) Exactly. And Labout will havr to choose between a coalition with Lib Dems revokin a50 or one with the SNP with a second independence ref. So, even you now recognise they will not win outright... |
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18th September 2019, 10:27 AM
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#218
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,071 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Sep 18 2019, 10:45 AM) So, even you now recognise they will not win outright... The biased disgusting one party state media id constantly on the attack. Constant brainwashing. |
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18th September 2019, 10:28 AM
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#219
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,071 User: 18,639
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And they basically did win outright last time. The vile disco citizens party was buoyed by Brexshit. Without that, it woulf have been destroyed.
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18th September 2019, 08:51 PM
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#220
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I Drink Wine
Joined: 12 April 2015
Posts: 10,485 User: 21,753
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QUOTE(Algernon Monqueef @ Sep 18 2019, 09:38 AM) Exactly. And Labout will havr to choose between a coalition with Lib Dems revokin a50 or one with the SNP with a second independence ref. Lib Dems are only revoking if they are a majority government. Otherwise, their policy is to back the People's Vote and campaign for remain. |
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