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 The Official Labour Foot-Shoot Thread, Mk II |
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 28th October 2017, 08:01 PM
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#301
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,674 User: 3,272 
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I suspect Labour thought they'd missed their chance in Sheffield Hallam in 2015. As they didn't expect their candidate to win, they didn't subject him to the sort of scrutiny candidates elsewhere may have received. Not a wise decision.
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28th October 2017, 09:21 PM
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#302
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 Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,089 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(Chop-part-freak @ Oct 28 2017, 08:38 PM)  Got to play fair in politics and criticise all sides. So, what would the Labour Party activists be prepared to do to get rid of the much-loathed Nick Clegg? Put up a homophobic, misogynistic piss-head without doing any character-checks on-line or associates whatsoever, apparently. With MP's of that calibre, perhaps that qualifies as local-bullshit overtaking detailed credibility. Still, keeps the Momentum going, eh? Yes I know it's a week late, but still worth mulling over... That was the fault of defeatist centrists, the ones who aaid people like me were deluded for saying Labour would come veery close to winniny and the Tories would not be getting those Elite preeictions from the BBC etc of 300 seat majorities. We can never go into another election with that attitude again. They put up any old candidates in some places. |
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28th October 2017, 09:24 PM
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#303
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,674 User: 3,272
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Of course, in O'Mara's defence, at least he didn't attempt to make a joke about rape on live radio.
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28th October 2017, 09:27 PM
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#304
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,089 User: 18,639
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Or done half of what Boris Johnson's done or said whilst Foreign Secretary!
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29th October 2017, 06:34 AM
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#305
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Poked Pumpkin🎃 @ Oct 28 2017, 09:21 PM) That was the fault of defeatist centrists, the ones who aaid people like me were deluded for saying Labour would come veery close to winniny and the Tories would not be getting those Elite preeictions from the BBC etc of 300 seat majorities. We can never go into another election with that attitude again. They put up any old candidates in some places. But will Labour deselect him for the next election (if he doesn't step down on his own)? |
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29th October 2017, 08:59 AM
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#306
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,833 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Poked Pumpkin🎃 @ Oct 28 2017, 09:21 PM) That was the fault of defeatist centrists, the ones who aaid people like me were deluded for saying Labour would come veery close to winniny and the Tories would not be getting those Elite preeictions from the BBC etc of 300 seat majorities. We can never go into another election with that attitude again. They put up any old candidates in some places. Pure Momentum. Sorry. In what universe can a party dominated by the left blame centrists for something that was entirely down to local activists with at least 18 months to do a bit of preparation, and certainly an election was expected once the referendum result became clear. It's almost as if local candidates get chosen on the basis of who is mates with who..... There are plenty of potentially good national left-leaning candidates (I know one who put his name forward in a London borough for Councillor but his face just didn't fit in with the local power-struggles between groups aligned along cultural ties rather than political). Of course Tories are even worse at choosing candidates. Mostly they just have to be rich.... |
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29th October 2017, 09:53 AM
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#307
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Chop-part-freak @ Oct 29 2017, 08:59 AM) Pure Momentum. Sorry. In what universe can a party dominated by the left blame centrists for something that was entirely down to local activists with at least 18 months to do a bit of preparation, and certainly an election was expected once the referendum result became clear. It's almost as if local candidates get chosen on the basis of who is mates with who..... There are plenty of potentially good national left-leaning candidates (I know one who put his name forward in a London borough for Councillor but his face just didn't fit in with the local power-struggles between groups aligned along cultural ties rather than political). Of course Tories are even worse at choosing candidates. Mostly they just have to be rich.... Under STV parties would have to put a wide range of candidates of course - pro/anti Brexit, white/non-white etc, in order to maximise their vote. |
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29th October 2017, 11:11 AM
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#308
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,674 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Oct 29 2017, 09:53 AM) Under STV parties would have to put a wide range of candidates of course - pro/anti Brexit, white/non-white etc, in order to maximise their vote. That's one of many reasons why I support STV. Of course, I would expect the Lib Dems to struggle to find many pro-Leave candidates in the same way that the Greens might struggle to find climate change deniers as candidates. |
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29th October 2017, 06:11 PM
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#309
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
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On the O'Mara thing - Hallam was my CLP for three years up to 2015 and from what I've heard, since then it's been deeply dysfunctional since then and was always likely to select a Corbynite candidate once it got down to a shortlist. Given that everything was pointing towards us struggling to hold seats let alone gain new ones, and given the tight timescale of the snap election, it's not surprising in the slightest that the NEC didn't get round to checking a load of archived 15-year-old forums to see if anyone on their longlist had said anything terrible. Hallam would have been an especially low priority given that there's still a very strong Lib Dem presence at the local level and the constituency backed Remain very heavily, so it was widely assumed (understandably) that we'd missed our chance in 2015.
That said, it's deeply disappointing for everyone who busted a gut to get rid of Clegg in both 2015 and 2017 that we've been let down by the seat's first ever Labour MP like this. |
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14th January 2018, 07:45 PM
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#310
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,833 User: 17,376
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I think we can claim this is foot-shooting since I'm still not clear on what Corbyn's position on Brexit is, and it seems to be quite a thing to look forward to. A firm statement on what he stands for might help my confusion.
Perhaps someone can correct the attached tweet with some backed-up facts, or else it might appear he's angling for a Hard Brexit? Thanks. @PaulBrandITV Corbyn insists the single market is dependent on membership of the EU. Hm. But it’s not. Countries like Norway are in single market and not in EU. #peston 17 replies 160 retweets 218 likes Corbyn has repeated this for months, despite it being totally false: feels like a way for him to square his dislike of the EU with the fact most of his members and voters feel otherwise.James Ball added, Paul Brand Verified account |
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14th January 2018, 08:04 PM
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#311
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is in hibernation
Joined: 24 August 2014
Posts: 11,385 User: 21,161
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Labour has let us young people who voted for them in such droves in June down with his Brexit policy. Apart from a vague 'transition period' of being in the single market/customs union (then swiftly exiting it seems) I fail to see the difference in Brexit policy between Labour and the tories?
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14th January 2018, 08:06 PM
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#312
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,674 User: 3,272
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If only more young people realised that.
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14th January 2018, 08:12 PM
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#313
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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I think that through 2018 there will be a slow move from Labour towards maintaining single-market access & alignment with the customs union (in a bespoke arrangement), I don't think it'll be through the softening of public opinion but rather than crushing reality of the Republic of Ireland/Northern Ireland border and economic impact assessments.
We can all probably agree the Labour's position on the eventual relationship post-March 2019 are as muddled and deliberately vague as the Government's. REASSURING. 
This post has been edited by Doctor Blind: 14th January 2018, 08:13 PM |
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14th January 2018, 08:17 PM
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#314
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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QUOTE(Andrew. @ Jan 14 2018, 08:04 PM) Labour has let us young people who voted for them in such droves in June down with his Brexit policy. Apart from a vague 'transition period' of being in the single market/customs union (then swiftly exiting it seems) I fail to see the difference in Brexit policy between Labour and the tories? I'd like it to be something different, but it's not like it wasn't equally confusing and muddled before the general election. |
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14th January 2018, 08:18 PM
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#315
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is in hibernation
Joined: 24 August 2014
Posts: 11,385 User: 21,161
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jan 14 2018, 08:12 PM) I think that through 2018 there will be a slow move from Labour towards maintaining single-market access & alignment with the customs union (in a bespoke arrangement), I don't think it'll be through the softening of public opinion but rather than crushing reality of the Republic of Ireland/Northern Ireland border and economic impact assessments. We can all probably agree the Labour's position on the eventual relationship post-March 2019 are as muddled and deliberately vague as the Government's. REASSURING. I think the groans to call for Single Market/Customs union membership will increase from other Labour MPs this year but as long as Corbyn is in charge their policy won't change. For that reason I can see a not insignificant number of 2017 Labour voters flocking to either the Greens (momentum lot) or the Lib Dems (moderates) This could be the first chance the Greens have to make a significant splash if they concentrate on the remain aspect of their platform in metropolitan areas where they had a stronger than average vote anyway (though they fell back to Labour a lot this year). This post has been edited by Andrew.: 14th January 2018, 08:22 PM |
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14th January 2018, 08:25 PM
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#316
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,674 User: 3,272
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The Greens' results in local by-elections since the general election have been mostly terrible.
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14th January 2018, 08:35 PM
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#317
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is in hibernation
Joined: 24 August 2014
Posts: 11,385 User: 21,161
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 14 2018, 08:25 PM) The Greens' results in local by-elections since the general election have been mostly terrible. They seem to have completely disappeared in general. Correct me if I’m wrong but their membership has gone way down since Corbyn became Labour leader. I honestly think they need a new leader with new ideas, Caroline Lucas is good but she seems to have taken back all the progress Natalie Bennet made electorally (even if not much of that was down to her). Patrick Harvey would make a good England and Wales leader but the Scottish Party would suffer without him, it says a lot that the second most well known Scottish Green is Ross Greer 
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27th January 2018, 10:39 AM
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#318
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,833 User: 17,376
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As everyone asks about Labour's position on Brexit, how about a comment from a thoughtful intelligent sincere Labour MP?
"Chuka Umunna Verified account @ChukaUmunna 21h21 hours ago More When Labour fails to lead and make the case for what we believe - equality, poverty reduction, internationalism and so on - public support for our values falls. We should not be led by polls and focus groups. That’s why we should make the case for Single Market membership." |
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1st February 2018, 03:14 PM
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#319
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jan 27 2018, 10:39 AM) As everyone asks about Labour's position on Brexit, how about a comment from a thoughtful intelligent sincere Labour MP? "Chuka Umunna Verified account @ChukaUmunna 21h21 hours ago More When Labour fails to lead and make the case for what we believe - equality, poverty reduction, internationalism and so on - public support for our values falls. We should not be led by polls and focus groups. That’s why we should make the case for Single Market membership." Problem is, their leader is not exactly a Europhile... |
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23rd March 2018, 08:29 PM
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#320
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,833 User: 17,376
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Owen Smith sacked for not being Jeremy Corbyn on Brexit and suggesting democracy is a thing.
(Just to underline, Jeremy Corbyn on Brexit is Theresa May on Brexit, give or take. Mostly Take) Just to point out most Labour supporters seem to agree more with the sackee than the sacker. "He's not the Messiah he's a very naughty boy!" |
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