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> 2019 Formula One Season, French Grand Prix Discussion Thread
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Mack.
post Jun 9 2019, 07:49 PM
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Absolute joke that decision. F1 is certainly going its way to turn off viewers. Listening on 5 Live.
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Mack.
post Jun 9 2019, 07:51 PM
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Jun 9 2019, 07:56 PM
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Seb swapping the position marker in front of Hamilton’s car to what it rightfully should be is probably the moment of the entire season so far.
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Jun 9 2019, 08:03 PM
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Seb rightfully telling people not to boo Hamilton and to boo the FIA instead. Fair play
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Bjork
post Jun 10 2019, 07:55 AM
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am I the only one who agreed with the decision? sure he did an unsafe return blocking Hamilton

just shows what a piss-poor driver Vettel is, he's totally lost it and should give up his seat

and the changing numbers thing, it's the most childish and idiotic thing I've ever seen,
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Severin
post Jun 10 2019, 11:23 AM
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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vettel-p...action/4461262/

Damon Hill aside the voices are pretty much in unison. And when Mario Andretti speaks it's well worth listening
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Severin
post Jun 10 2019, 11:25 AM
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QUOTE(Bjork @ Jun 10 2019, 08:55 AM) *
just shows what a piss-poor driver Vettel is, he's totally lost it and should give up his seat


The fact he didn't crash actually shows what a good driver he is. Imagine if that had of been Grosjean or Kvyat. The race would have ended for both drivers.
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Jun 10 2019, 09:52 PM
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Or KMag. He can't even have an accident with the wall of champions properly!!
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Mack.
post Jun 11 2019, 02:24 PM
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No instead he hit the Pit Wall as well.

QUOTE
Seb swapping the position marker in front of Hamilton’s car to what it rightfully should be is probably the moment of the entire season so far.


Vettel after the race was my highlight of the season.
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Mack.
post Tuesday, 03:55 PM
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Out of 1 to 10, how would you rate the Canadian Grand Prix?


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Mack.
post Thursday, 03:49 PM
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Ferrari will not appeal against the penalty that cost Sebastian Vettel victory in the Canadian Grand Prix.

The German won on track but was penalised five seconds for dangerous driving, which handed victory to Hamilton. So it is seven out of seven for Mercedes......

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dobbo
post Thursday, 07:01 PM
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It was a penalty. Under the current rules it doesn't matter if it was by accidental or on purpose, if you impede another driver after rejoining the track then it's a pen. Highly doubt it was intentional but he made the error & retained the lead which isn't correct. I think the problem is that it shouldn't have to be a slam-dunk 5 second penalty, the FIA could have for example ordered Vettel to let Lewis pass then the race would resume. That would have a better decision all-round.

The whole fallout from this just disguises the fact that Seb yet again made another mistake under pressure. Those 7 points are hardly relevant in the grand scheme of things anyway. I did have to hand it to him when he swapped the boards around, that was brilliant laugh.gif and the plus side on all of this is that it's got people talking about an otherwise pretty uneventful season thus far. F1 has always, and will always thrive under controversy.

Have to give a shoutout to the 2 "meme drivers" of the grid Stroll & Kyvat, both had very strong displays!
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Severin
post Thursday, 10:54 PM
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QUOTE(dobbo @ Jun 13 2019, 08:01 PM) *
It was a penalty. Under the current rules it doesn't matter if it was by accidental or on purpose, if you impede another driver after rejoining the track then it's a pen. Highly doubt it was intentional but he made the error & retained the lead which isn't correct.



And therein lies one of the biggest problems F1 has these days. Regardless of Sunday's debate over the incident - which most drivers appear to think is ludicrous - you just can't defend your position anymore and it, among other things, is killing the sport. It's over regulated, the cars are too easy to control and too reliable and most of the drivers come across as dull because they're too worried about the pr.
Take a look back at the final laps of the 1979 French GP at Dijon where Villeneuve and Arnoux gave an absolute masterclass in what it is to race an opponent (and fairly). It's widely considered one of the greatest duels in F1 history but if that happened today there'd be about 20 separate penalties between them.

But back to the overall point, if a driver makes a mistake under pressure and successfully recovers and then defends his lead it should stand as long as nothing overtly dangerous was attempted on purpose. Vettel regained control and blocked a pass. He couldn't have forced Hamilton, intentionally or otherwise, off the track because there was a wall there. Hamilton anticipated his trajectory and braked accordingly. No harm done, no dangerous driving and no intent to do so.
The stewards decision killed the only half interesting grand prix this year and rightly caused advocates of racing to raise their arms in disgust.

As a someone whose love of the sport began with James Hunt's title win in '76, it saddens me to say F1 has lost its way in the last 10 years and is now in danger of disappearing up its own arsehole.


This post has been edited by Severin: Thursday, 10:55 PM
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dobbo
post Saturday, 11:16 AM
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It's a problem F1 has gone into all by itself from those very past 10 years you mention of people screaming out for clarity over what it & what isn't a penalty. This is the situation the sport is in thanks to the drivers, teams, fans you name it. Obviously no case is entirely black & white and you can never 100% be consistent across 2 incidents but the incident last weekend is a clear penalty according to the current framework. I sure as hell know if it were the other way around everyone would have been screaming for it...

I agree that it effectively killed the race but you can't implement penalties based on what keeps a non-existent title battle interesting. I always watch Palmer's analyses on the F1 YouTube channel where he compared the incident to Verstappen's at Suzuka last year and to the FIA's credit they were at least consistent. The sport has to go either zero tolerance or full tolerance or else there'll always be these kinds of debates. But on the other hand controversial decisions are what keeps all sports interesting as everyone loves to chirp in with an opinion.

And it's all well & good harping on about the good old days (believe me, I long for the days of the mid to late noughties where you had 2 or 3 teams in a position to win every weekend & title battles going all to the way to wire) but they ain't coming back anytime soon...
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Mack.
post Saturday, 12:26 PM
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Should Leclerc fail to win a race for Ferrari this season, he will be the team's first full-time driver since Irvine (1996) not to win a race in his first season for Ferrari.
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Severin
post Saturday, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE(dobbo @ Jun 15 2019, 12:16 PM) *
It's a problem F1 has gone into all by itself from those very past 10 years you mention of people screaming out for clarity over what it & what isn't a penalty. This is the situation the sport is in thanks to the drivers, teams, fans you name it. Obviously no case is entirely black & white and you can never 100% be consistent across 2 incidents but the incident last weekend is a clear penalty according to the current framework. I sure as hell know if it were the other way around everyone would have been screaming for it...

I agree that it effectively killed the race but you can't implement penalties based on what keeps a non-existent title battle interesting. I always watch Palmer's analyses on the F1 YouTube channel where he compared the incident to Verstappen's at Suzuka last year and to the FIA's credit they were at least consistent. The sport has to go either zero tolerance or full tolerance or else there'll always be these kinds of debates. But on the other hand controversial decisions are what keeps all sports interesting as everyone loves to chirp in with an opinion.

And it's all well & good harping on about the good old days (believe me, I long for the days of the mid to late noughties where you had 2 or 3 teams in a position to win every weekend & title battles going all to the way to wire) but they ain't coming back anytime soon...

I agree the sport has got itself into this problem and certainly the teams and FIA are majorly to blame as are - to a lesser extent - the drivers and some fans. And yes no penalty should ever be issued to keep a race exciting. We've had one sided championships before and they will inevitably come around once in a while. That's not the point. Drivers should be penalised for intentional or reckless endangerment - that's fair enough - but Vettel made a mistake, and depending on your viewpoint, recovered well and defended his line, or just about regained control of the car. Hamilton wasn't forced off the track in any way and simply needed to brake. He clearly anticipated that and even he - a known complainer - didn't make much fuss about it. The Verstappen incident is different as he was in full control of the car when he blocked Raikonnen - without any doubt a deliberate move. Hamilton's unpenalised move on Ricciardo at Monaco a few years back is a closer example and is arguably worse.

I know I also mentioned 1979 but I'm not trying to hark back to some perceived golden era. We all saw far too many drivers killed or crippled in those days and no-one wants that again, but F1 safety is second to none in motorsport. You will never totally remove the element of danger and there will always be advances in safety to match the advances in technology. All of this is fine but it is about looking forward, not back. Remembering what the core of the sport is - drivers racing each other - and making the technical regulations and the rules to protect that. If they don't then more fans will turn to other series that do
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Mack.
post 1 hour ago
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The latest on the Vettel penalty:

Ferrari have officially lodged a "right to review" the penalty that cost Sebastian Vettel victory in the Canadian Grand Prix.
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