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 We're making a mistake if we bomb ISIS. |
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 Sep 26 2014, 08:10 AM
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#1
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53 
  
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In my opinion it's madness if MP's agree to bomb ISIS in Iraq. Let the Yanks and others do it! As a man who lost his son in Iraq in 2003 and who's wife is very depressed still, said just now on Sky News, it's just going to be a recruiting exercise for ISIS and other anti-West terrorist groups. We never learn. Yes they have beheaded a British hostage but as I say, the Americans have started it so let them continiue.
DISCUSS PLEASE. |
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Sep 26 2014, 01:37 PM
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 11 April 2006
Posts: 4,259 User: 457
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Agreed. Where is the logic in "helping" those civilians suffering from Islamic State by bombing/killing them ourselves? And how do they think the friends/relatives of those civilians that are killed going to react? Are they likely to take some high-minded view that the deaths were for the greater good, or are they going to be furious at the West and be more sympathetic to the jihadists' argument that the West is the enemy?
It's hard not to feel the only reason this is happening is so that the "powers that be" feel good about themselves and the fact that they're Doing Something. This post has been edited by Danny: Sep 26 2014, 01:38 PM |
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Sep 27 2014, 03:32 PM
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 Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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Didn't know you lost a child in Iraq Chris. Sorry to hear that
 I am on the fence with airstrikes. Part of me thinks its cool because the Iraqi government have requested help, but the part of me that almost got suspended for protesting the original Iraq war at school wants us to stay the f*** away. |
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Sep 27 2014, 03:57 PM
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
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QUOTE(Silas @ Sep 27 2014, 04:32 PM)  Didn't know you lost a child in Iraq Chris. Sorry to hear that He didn't lose a child, he just has dodgy syntax. |
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Sep 27 2014, 04:08 PM
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#5
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
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QUOTE(Danny @ Sep 26 2014, 02:37 PM) It's hard not to feel the only reason this is happening is so that the "powers that be" feel good about themselves and the fact that they're Doing Something. There are all sorts of conflicts we could intervene in to feel good about ourselves and the fact we're Doing Something. None of them have involved the murders of British aid workers and a funneling of British citizens radicalised to the point where religious justifications lose all basis in even the most conservative of texts and just become a thinly-veiled personality cult. Which if anything is even more dangerous than al-Qaeda, because there is literally no limit to what they will do. In any case, radicalisation in Afghanisation and Iraq only really came after failed state-building - when the occupying forces are cruel, abuse people in the same way as the regime they came in to overthrow, and when the Western-backed government is corrupt and ethnically biased, radicalisation makes sense. The public in both Iraq and Afghanistan backed both of those invasions to begin with. It was only a couple of years in that opinion started really turning against, once that failed state-building was taking action. These are people who are seeing indiscriminate murder at the hands of IS. It's utterly patronising to think that action clearly aimed at IS would make someone being persecuted by IS sympathetic to IS. More likely you'll get radicalisation amongst the Sunnis benefiting from the IS regime, but even then the more important part is ensuring the Iraqi government stops its Shi'a factionalisation and governs in the interest of all groups in a consociational way. That's the only way this will resolve itself, but that can't happen so long as IS have a stranglehold and are advancing - and that radicalisation is occurring at a ridiculous pace already. |
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Sep 27 2014, 04:28 PM
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
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As far as I see it, ISIS are a threat to all, the West, the Iraqi Shi'as, eventually even the Sunnis who won't go so far as to become part of them, and and the last thing I'd want us to do is to sit by and do nothing while they go on committing atrocities. This feels a lot more 'we have to go in' than in 2003 or in Syria, in 2003 I don't remember huge amounts about it but it seems like there was doubt about whether it was a sensible idea while in Syria it would have been another Iraq or Afghanistan had we gone in.
This time there is a dangerous terrorist group which really needs to be stopped. The region won't suddenly stabilise if ISIS are destroyed but it'll be a lot better off for it. |
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Sep 27 2014, 04:59 PM
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#7
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,812 User: 17,376
 
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QUOTE(Silas @ Sep 27 2014, 04:32 PM) Didn't know you lost a child in Iraq Chris. Sorry to hear that I am on the fence with airstrikes. Part of me thinks its cool because the Iraqi government have requested help, but the part of me that almost got suspended for protesting the original Iraq war at school wants us to stay the f*** away. I echo all you say above. Except I wasn't at school I was a voice in gung ho wilderness. |
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Sep 27 2014, 05:22 PM
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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I disagree; whilst I hate the idea of military action, to simply stick your head in the sand and pretend that nothing is happening is an even bigger mistake.
There does need to be a regional solution, and given Iraq has asked for help, this makes the case legal for airstrikes. The airstrikes will aid the breakup and disorganisation of IS so that the Peshmerga (armed by the West) are able to go in and finish the job. IS may not be a current threat to us, but to sit back and allow them to grow and organise leaves us dangerously vulnerable to a radicalised group of Muslims, who will stop at nothing to peddle their warped view of religion across the globe. This post has been edited by Doctor Blind: Sep 27 2014, 05:24 PM |
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Sep 27 2014, 09:33 PM
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#9
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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There is a moral case, that this has happened due to the USA and UK interfering in Iraq in the first place for no UN validated reason - which was my opinion from day one - so there is now a moral obligation to try and rescue the poor people of the lands who have been effectively taken over. Religious zealots of any religion just use it for political purposes, nothing new there in history, and these so-called believers are no different from the Spanish Inquisition and any other religious or non-religious men (usually) who quite obviously love killing and justify it with hate.
Trouble is, people are always too ready to go to war. At least as important is to target the funding, the supplies, the supporting regimes. I wonder if they are oil-rich....? |
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Oct 3 2014, 09:04 PM
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
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Alan Kenning now murdered.
Don't really know how people can complain we're using air strikes when these terrorists are murdering aid workers. Absolutely barbaric. |
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Oct 3 2014, 10:00 PM
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 3 2014, 10:04 PM) Alan Kenning now murdered. Don't really know how people can complain we're using air strikes when these terrorists are murdering aid workers. Absolutely barbaric. Alternatively, the air strikes have not put a stop to their barbarism. |
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Oct 3 2014, 10:21 PM
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WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 3 2014, 11:00 PM) Alternatively, the air strikes have not put a stop to their barbarism. I think it will do in good time. It's certainly causing them less problems than if we let them have free reign to as they pleased. |
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Oct 3 2014, 10:56 PM
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,655 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 3 2014, 11:21 PM) I think it will do in good time. It's certainly causing them less problems than if we let them have free reign to as they pleased. It is far too soon to make that claim. Military action may work - I hope it does - but it could also increase support for ISIS. |
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Oct 3 2014, 11:30 PM
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#14
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 11 April 2006
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Sep 27 2014, 06:22 PM) I disagree; whilst I hate the idea of military action, to simply stick your head in the sand and pretend that nothing is happening is an even bigger mistake. There does need to be a regional solution, and given Iraq has asked for help, this makes the case legal for airstrikes. The airstrikes will aid the breakup and disorganisation of IS so that the Peshmerga (armed by the West) are able to go in and finish the job. IS may not be a current threat to us, but to sit back and allow them to grow and organise leaves us dangerously vulnerable to a radicalised group of Muslims, who will stop at nothing to peddle their warped view of religion across the globe. If this is what ends up happening then I might even be in favour of it (though Assad would probably also have to be part of the equation, since it seems pretty obvious now that he was the lesser of two evils all along), but what I fear is that the West won't "trust" those to finish the job and will insist on a full-scale Western invasion. I can't see how that wouldn't be a disaster -- even if it managed to "defeat" Islamic State this time, the kind of resentment towards towards the West that another invasion and the mass killings would cause would probably mean that something similar would crop up again before long. This post has been edited by Danny: Oct 3 2014, 11:31 PM |
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