Alexandra Burke speaks out on past racism experiences

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Alexandra Burke speaks out on past racism experiences

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Jordanlee View member profile	20th June 2020, 06:38 PM Post #41
Jord Joined: 12 March 2017 Posts: 10,769 User: 27,116	QUOTE(Jack @ Jun 20 2020, 07:27 PM) The reason it went so badly as you say, is because the general public have no sense of humour when it comes to women, let alone black women. Louis has said some repulsive things over the years that have been laughed off, I wonder why. I think you're letting your own personal opinion come into play, and just because the general public have the same opinion as you, doesn't necessarily mean it's correct or anything. I do agree with what you said here! Earlier on I said I don’t think she’d have had as rough a ride by the media if she were American and I think that comment wouldn’t have ever been a bad thing had she guest judged on US X Factor or a US based reality talent show. It’s more in our minds at the time she was still Alexandra from X Factor she was the only person to judge on the show (well the first one wasn’t she) but I don’t know I mean I think some people on here would feel very different if say Anne Marie or Jess Glynne had said ok.com or the elephant thing. It’s a case of me being in the minority on here so most people will dismiss what I’m saying but the GP get it to an extent. In regards to her video though the journalist was trash and who ever said she should bleach her skin or change her hair was VILE.


Tafty³³³ View member profile	20th June 2020, 06:47 PM Post #42
I found the love, I found the love in me Pronouns: He/Him Joined: 13 December 2007 Posts: 87,447 User: 5,042	QUOTE(Jordan Lee @ Jun 20 2020, 07:18 PM) She’s genuinely as known for those 3 words than she is for her music career though or anything else. I can’t think of anyone else who said something and had such a downfall the way Alexandra did. Probably Joss Stone putting on an American accent at the BRITS but even that I’d say was forgotten about way quicker than ok.com I still see it shared on my socials to this day. This is the PROBLEM though? Why was Alexandra dragged down so much by it when Gemma Collins makes an actual living off of very similar quotes nowadays? Even Nicole says things like "Scher-mazing", "Scher-mazeballs" and other odd quirks and quips and she hasn't had as big a problem (but I'm pretty sure - although not to the scale of Alexandra - there were some people who still moaned about that but didn't bat an eye when Louis kept doing his comparisons)? The reason why ok.com is on social media now, because people have realised it's pretty much just a meme, from a time before meme's were a big thing/starting to become a thing, but the damage it did was done with. It was responsible for killing her career because people over reacted to the comment, that was essentially just a harmless, fun and jokey meme?


Scene View member profile	20th June 2020, 07:01 PM Post #43
Baby Reindeer Joined: 9 March 2008 Posts: 13,264 User: 5,567	QUOTE(Jordan Lee @ Jun 20 2020, 07:10 PM) This site is very much in the minority of the rest of the GP in regards to the ok.com incident. I didn’t necessarily think it was aggression or anything though just a cringe moment and like why say that it was embarrassing to watch I think she thought it would go down really well as well. This video of her below of her judging shows off her OTT side a lot though and how she tried really hard it was like she was acting or trying to be funny. She made a few good critiques but at the same time she spoke down to some people a few times in a bit of a patronising way. It was only really Little Mix and Misha were I felt like what she was saying felt genuine. It’s very much though the way Jessie J acted when she was on The Voice. This was literally the night she would become a one album wonder in the UK if she hadn’t guest judged that night who knows what could’ve happened but this is when it all went downhill for her. She was standing in for Kelly wasn’t she who herself was probably still just fuming after THAT incident the previous week. I definitely can see why people might think she’s over the top or of the assumption that she thinks she’s bigger than what she is though. The time she went on about wanting to be the first person to bring elephant in the room to the UK was another total hands over face moment. I'm very disappointed reading this post. Alexandra aceepted the stand-in judging role at the last minute - I very much doubt what she had to say was scripted or rehearsed like the other judges. Let's not act like that episode of XF determined the future of her singing career. To even entertain that notion is ridiculous. Alexandra got hate from XF viewers even when she was on the show. Despite her consistently strong performances, I remember many posters on DS saying "we don't need Alexandra to win, we've already got Leona" as if two black girls are completely identical and Alexandra offers nothing different. The comparisons between Alexandra and Leona were constant despite the fact Leona was promoted as the new Mariah while Alexandra was seen as the British Beyonce who could sing AND dance. Very different artists! I can't stress enough the amount of racist comments I read regarding Alexandra (sometimes in comparison to Leona) on Digital Spy forums back in 2008. The online hate for Alexandra grew when she launched her solo career - I don't know how much was from JLS fans but I remembered her getting booed at a festival despite never making offensive, rude or disrespectful comments. Despite 'Bad Boys' nearly selling a million and 'Broken Heels' going top 10 Radio 1 stopped supporting Alexandra's music. Yes she had an excited and enthusiastic personality, but NEVER has she ever come across arrogant or like a diva. The Strictly period was awful to witness. Alexandra had just lost her mother, clearly emotional yet got ripped apart for becoming emotional on camera. The fact she was far and away the best dancer in her year yet proved unpopular in the vote is down to a certain journalist's treatment of her as well as a bias against black competitors on the show - as has been mentioned. To say she spoke down to people and patronised the contestants on XF is stupid. She was a judge! She was there to give her opinion on their performances. I was shocked at the terrible reception she received because when I watched it live I thought she did a fantastic job. But the general public had already turned against her by that point. To make out her pop star career could have survived if she hadn't guest judged is extremely naive. The public, media and music industry were turning against her during her first era! As for the "elephant" comment, she said she wanted to be the first person to bring it to the UK and make it into a song...


T Boy View member profile	20th June 2020, 07:24 PM Post #44
Radical Pink Troll Joined: 11 March 2006 Posts: 26,599 User: 177	By the time she judged on X Factor, she’s won the show, had 3 no.1 singles and a no.1 album. Why shouldn’t she be confident in her judging? Jordan, it smacks of arrogance that you think the whole general public would agree with you and it’s borderline offensive to dismiss views in here as just ‘this site’ (other very controversial posters have behaved like that in the past.) You may have found Alexandra annoying that night but she did not deserve to lose a career over it and I bet most people didn’t care what she said. From my memory she spoke the most sense out of all the judges that night. But a picture was painted of her from then and it appears you fell for it hook line and sinker and you’re coming across a bit arrogant trying to prove your opinion to be correct. Last week I admitted that at the time I perceived Misha B to be a bully. I don’t still hold on to those views after hearing from Misha and I’m surprised you still hold on to yours about Alexandra after hearing from her. She was painted as over the top and annoying even though she was just outgoing and confident. Personally I think her music fell off a cliff after this but as you can see from her video, it probably wasn’t the direction she wanted to go in. She was deterred from that because people ‘wouldn’t get it’. And even her getting it wrong about the elephant in the room, maybe she genuinely just hadn’t heard that phrase before going to America? It’s not used every day and even then she can afford to show ignorance sometimes, you seem to think you can get away with it at any rate.


Jordanlee View member profile	20th June 2020, 07:47 PM Post #45
Jord Joined: 12 March 2017 Posts: 10,769 User: 27,116	Well I’ve said my piece anyways. As for the just this site comment I said though I LOVE this site and I use it for the good now I know in the past I’ve bordered on being way too confrontational. I just meant like this site in general tends to really go away from what the GP think a lot of the time and it’s refreshing don’t get me wrong but you all have as strong opinions as me and tend not to like people disagreeing with that. With the mentions of Leona too they are so different musically and also personally too. Leona got the boring tag following her with people saying she didn’t have a personality so the opposite to what Alex got although not as strong. Leona guest judged X Factor though during a time the show was less popular and didn’t receive much if any critique for her guest judge stint so the public must still be able to warm to her personality which hasn’t changed since 2006.


T Boy View member profile	20th June 2020, 07:56 PM Post #46
Radical Pink Troll Joined: 11 March 2006 Posts: 26,599 User: 177	Leaning away from the GP’s opinion doesn’t mean we’re in the wrong. You basically think that Alexandra destroyed her own career by being herself. That is an issue, and if the public can’t reflect on that and evolve their view then we really are in more trouble than I first imagined.


Slick View member profile	20th June 2020, 08:01 PM Post #47
electric butterflies Pronouns: he/him Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 49,113 User: 70	QUOTE(T Boy @ Jun 20 2020, 08:56 PM) Leaning away from the GP’s opinion doesn’t mean we’re in the wrong. You basically think that Alexandra destroyed her own career by being herself. That is an issue, and if the public can’t reflect on that and evolve their view then we really are in more trouble than I first imagined. Absolutely spot on!


*Tim View member profile	20th June 2020, 08:34 PM Post #48
Bitch of t seet Joined: 2 April 2012 Posts: 27,395 User: 16,660	Are we really debating on whether 2 phrases and confidence were a justified reason to scrutinise a black woman in the media?


*Tim View member profile	20th June 2020, 08:36 PM Post #49
Bitch of t seet Joined: 2 April 2012 Posts: 27,395 User: 16,660	Especially when comments like "bleach your skin" "dont wear dreads" "you shouldnt make this music, its too black" were made by her own damn label and team. We are not about to deny that racism played a big part in the public perception of her. One may not like her personality, but there's disliking and then there's abuse, which is what she gets whenever the damn girl opens her mouth I mean even I as someone who has supported the girl since the beginning, but even I can admit that I found ok.com a biT cringe. HOWEVER she was not the first to use that phrase and it certainly did not deserve all the headlines it got


Scene View member profile	20th June 2020, 08:44 PM Post #50
Baby Reindeer Joined: 9 March 2008 Posts: 13,264 User: 5,567	As for Dan Wootten, I really hope he gets his just desserts sometime soon. An utterly disgraceful and sick human being who thrives of others' misfortunes. The fact he assassinated Alexandra's character on a daily basis in the months after she lost her mum - and the fact he got away with it! - makes me both sad and angry. It's exactly the reason why I can't stand Lorraine Kelly and always have to switch over the TV when her show comes on. Anyone who associates themselves with that sociopath is cancelled in my book. The British press needs a reform desperately. While free press is a valuable thing, tabloids shouldn't be able to get away with hateful lies that impact the mental health of whoever they write about. Fair enough if someone has been tried and convicted for depraved crimes - they deserve terrible publicity then - but to wreck the lives and careers of famous figures without valid reason is plain wrong and she could be challenged. It's like there needs to be a watershed moment like Me Too and this BLM movement for the corrupt and unethical history of journalism. You would have thought the phone hacking scandal would have been the start of a movement.


J00prstar View member profile	21st June 2020, 02:14 AM Post #51
there's nothing straight about plump Elvis Pronouns: they/any Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,143 User: 22,895	Did anyone post the Leona video yet on the same topic? aAoNOu3oKKo


Jordanlee View member profile	21st June 2020, 06:41 AM Post #52
Jord Joined: 12 March 2017 Posts: 10,769 User: 27,116	QUOTE(Scene @ Jun 20 2020, 08:01 PM) . To make out her pop star career could have survived if she hadn't guest judged is extremely naive. The public, media and music industry were turning against her during her first era! As for the "elephant" comment, she said she wanted to be the first person to bring it to the UK and make it into a song... I think that the guest judge stint was the worst career move she ever did though as that definitely rightly or wrongly brought by far the most negative press / attention than anything prior to that. Elephant in the room as well is a genuine saying as well there might not have been a song literally called Elephant before but she didn’t bring the saying to the UK like she suggested lol. To be fair though and this is me being positive to an extent here I think when I heard her second album the actual song Elephant and the follow up Let It Go weren’t exactly amongst the highlights. The album definitely had some songs on it what to my ears at least sounded like big hits and could’ve been at least a moderate hit for her. The title track sounds like something what could’ve been huge in the 2012 era of the charts! There was another song called Tonight what also sounded like a hit and Beating Still too, the second album in some ways was actually better than her debut for me but it was kinda strange that the two singles released from that era were two tracks what didn’t exactly show off what won her the show in the first place her singing voice! Whether that was a move by her label who forced her to release those as singles we don’t really know, if Alex wanted those released then fair play to her for getting what she wished but I will say I think if different tracks got pushed from that album and if she’d been allowed to continue pushing it after the disappointing debut too the sales difference between them may not have been quite so drastic.


*Tim View member profile	21st June 2020, 06:57 AM Post #53
Bitch of t seet Joined: 2 April 2012 Posts: 27,395 User: 16,660	Homegirl even made the Dutch press with her video <3


Scene View member profile	21st June 2020, 10:09 AM Post #54
Baby Reindeer Joined: 9 March 2008 Posts: 13,264 User: 5,567	QUOTE(Jordan Lee @ Jun 21 2020, 07:41 AM) I think that the guest judge stint was the worst career move she ever did though as that definitely rightly or wrongly brought by far the most negative press / attention than anything prior to that. Elephant in the room as well is a genuine saying as well there might not have been a song literally called Elephant before but she didn’t bring the saying to the UK like she suggested lol. To be fair though and this is me being positive to an extent here I think when I heard her second album the actual song Elephant and the follow up Let It Go weren’t exactly amongst the highlights. The album definitely had some songs on it what to my ears at least sounded like big hits and could’ve been at least a moderate hit for her. The title track sounds like something what could’ve been huge in the 2012 era of the charts! There was another song called Tonight what also sounded like a hit and Beating Still too, the second album in some ways was actually better than her debut for me but it was kinda strange that the two singles released from that era were two tracks what didn’t exactly show off what won her the show in the first place her singing voice! Whether that was a move by her label who forced her to release those as singles we don’t really know, if Alex wanted those released then fair play to her for getting what she wished but I will say I think if different tracks got pushed from that album and if she’d been allowed to continue pushing it after the disappointing debut too the sales difference between them may not have been quite so drastic. The decline in sales from her debut to HOH had little to do with the singles released. Capital stopped supporting her, Radio 1 supported 'Elephant' but they generally went cold on Alexandra after 'Broken Heels', Heart didn't support her... all the major radio stations abandoned her which I feel could be down to her cutting ties with Syco. I still don't get how the guest judge stint was her worst career move. It wasn't like people who watched Alexandra that night began to see a "cocky", "overconfident", "patronising" side to her and public opinion suddenly changed. She had been getting a fair amount of hate whenever she gave an interview post-XF (I remember the Jonathan Ross one in particular). She's just an excited, self-assured, passionate black woman which clearly intimidates a lot of people. Jessie J's stint on The Voice was far more in-your-face and while she got some criticism, it was nowhere near as bad as the reaction Alexandra received. Plus her career while decelerating was still successful for a few years afterwards. I feel like it became "cool" to tear Alexandra down - both in the media and social media - and I think it derives from the belief that she is too full of herself and thinks she's above her station... and it's clear to me there is a mix of racism and misogyny at play here.


T Boy View member profile	21st June 2020, 11:31 AM Post #55
Radical Pink Troll Joined: 11 March 2006 Posts: 26,599 User: 177	That’s a good point about Jessie J, I find her really irritating, but she wasn’t dropped by radio and was still able to get a no.1 and top 10 albums a good few years after The Voice. Plus the criticism for her came from people on online forums whereas the media barely touched her, not like the way Alexandra was persecuted. I remember All Night Long not getting a Radio 1 playlist and wondering why not? It was a very in sound and a big hit. I remember Chris Moyles slating Start Without You when that got to no.1, something that only happened with songs Radio 1 refused to push (like Moves Like Jagger) and all of this was crazy considering how early in her career it was. Unlike Jessie J, Alexandra wasn’t given the chance to even let her career decline gently.


Slick View member profile	21st June 2020, 11:43 AM Post #56
electric butterflies Pronouns: he/him Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 49,113 User: 70	QUOTE(J00psyMethyd @ Jun 21 2020, 03:14 AM) Did anyone post the Leona video yet on the same topic? aAoNOu3oKKo I hadn't seen this yet, thanks for posting. A very real example of day-to-day, casual racism. I don't blame Leona for being furious at the shopkeeper, and at the white people in the shop for walking out but not standing by them. Interesting that she has no wider examples of racism in the music industry like Alexandra did.


Jordanlee View member profile	21st June 2020, 11:48 AM Post #57
Jord Joined: 12 March 2017 Posts: 10,769 User: 27,116	With the XF guest judge stint is it that you posters don’t believe it harmed her career or is it you believe it did but can’t see why it did? With regards to Jessie J, she had a fantastic label during her first album anyways and was respected to an extent as a songwriter too, whilst also winning critics choice at the BRITS. So she was perhaps better connected with powerful people to still keep her on the radio, and I’d imagine she had more £££ behind her as well. Solo wise X Factor females all had a decline with album two, some didn’t even get to album two! I really think the singles released from Heartbreak on Hold weren’t the best choices for actually showcasing her voice though and they didn’t have much identity but around half of the album did feel very Alexandra and I think could’ve done better, she was probably the kind of artist back then who with the right performance could’ve had a big impact on iTunes. I blame her label for just letting that album go without even trying to resurrect it! She was executive producer on that album wasn’t she, surely she must have been desperate to salvage the campaign but did whatever reason wasn’t able too. I cannot at all deny Alexandra had a strong stage presence, a strong voice as a performer I couldn’t fault her but those two songs done nothing to highlight that really that’s just my opinion though. Since then though, Alexandra has become very respected throughout the theatre industry and she’s successful in that lane so she’s still able to do what she loves.


J00prstar View member profile	21st June 2020, 12:01 PM Post #58
there's nothing straight about plump Elvis Pronouns: they/any Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,143 User: 22,895	Re Alexandra we have 2 concurrent issues: 1) she's a reality tv star so will have a tighter contract/less leeway for errors 2) she's a dark-skinned black woman so will have even moreso of that & lowkey racist attitudes from the people high-up in the industry/media to contend with on top. Basically what her position is is: a) she was forced into doing music that EXECS MADE HER DO to appeal to white people - the dance album with Elephant etc. b) when that flopped SHE PERSONALLY was blamed and was basically dropped by the label c) the label had been essentially looking for an excuse to drop her so arguably set her up by making her do material that wasn't going to be a huge hit d) when she went for Strictly for a career resurgence, (2) got in her way again because the media wanted to make her into a villain because of it.


T Boy View member profile	21st June 2020, 12:07 PM Post #59
Radical Pink Troll Joined: 11 March 2006 Posts: 26,599 User: 177	QUOTE(Jordan Lee @ Jun 21 2020, 12:48 PM) With the XF guest judge stint is it that you posters don’t believe it harmed her career or is it you believe it did but can’t see why it did? With regards to Jessie J, she had a fantastic label during her first album anyways and was respected to an extent as a songwriter too, whilst also winning critics choice at the BRITS. So she was perhaps better connected with powerful people to still keep her on the radio, and I’d imagine she had more £££ behind her as well. Solo wise X Factor females all had a decline with album two, some didn’t even get to album two! I really think the singles released from Heartbreak on Hold weren’t the best choices for actually showcasing her voice though and they didn’t have much identity but around half of the album did feel very Alexandra and I think could’ve done better, she was probably the kind of artist back then who with the right performance could’ve had a big impact on iTunes. I blame her label for just letting that album go without even trying to resurrect it! I cannot at all deny Alexandra had a strong stage presence, a strong voice as a performer I couldn’t fault her but those two songs done nothing to highlight that really that’s just my opinion though. Since then though, Alexandra has become very respected throughout the theatre industry and she’s successful in that lane so she’s still able to do what she loves. What she did shouldn’t have harmed her career but the media response to it clearly did. Again, you seem to be claiming that it was all her own fault and in some way deserved the treatment which I think is outrageous. Correct me if I’m wrong but it does feel like you have an issue with confident women as it was only a few months ago you were constantly digging into Lizzo for her confidence. Alexandra was being herself and if you find her annoying, fine. But there are plenty of annoying white people out there that didn’t get the same scrutiny and if you don’t see that then you’ve got blinkers on.


Scene View member profile	21st June 2020, 12:10 PM Post #60
Baby Reindeer Joined: 9 March 2008 Posts: 13,264 User: 5,567	QUOTE(Jordan Lee @ Jun 21 2020, 12:48 PM) With the XF guest judge stint is it that you posters don’t believe it harmed her career or is it you believe it did but can’t see why it did? With regards to Jessie J, she had a fantastic label during her first album anyways and was respected to an extent as a songwriter too, whilst also winning critics choice at the BRITS. So she was perhaps better connected with powerful people to still keep her on the radio, and I’d imagine she had more £££ behind her as well. Solo wise X Factor females all had a decline with album two, some didn’t even get to album two! I really think the singles released from Heartbreak on Hold weren’t the best choices for actually showcasing her voice though and they didn’t have much identity but around half of the album did feel very Alexandra and I think could’ve done better, she was probably the kind of artist back then who with the right performance could’ve had a big impact on iTunes. I blame her label for just letting that album go without even trying to resurrect it! I cannot at all deny Alexandra had a strong stage presence, a strong voice as a performer I couldn’t fault her but those two songs done nothing to highlight that really that’s just my opinion though. Since then though, Alexandra has become very respected throughout the theatre industry and she’s successful in that lane so she’s still able to do what she loves. Her XF judging stint didn't kill her music career like you originally suggested. Public opinion of her was increasingly negative prior to that night - she would have got ripped to shreds regardless of how she appeared. If she gave honest, blunt critiques she'd be labelled aggressive and arrogant, if she gave constructive criticism she'd be labelled condescending and up herself, if she gave endless positive praise she'd be labelled fake and insincere. If she appeared enthusiastic she'd be labelled annoying. If she appeared reserved she'd have an "attitude problem" and be labelled standoffish. The girl literally couldn't win. Funny how she was sitting next to Tulisa who herself is hardly a qualified enough judge for the show yet managed to escape the amount of scrutiny Alexandra received.