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Posted by: Jαsє 16th May 2019, 01:21 PM

The big one is Sunday night! (19th May)

How do you think it will end? How do you want it to end?

Fan speculation that Jamie is still alive - https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a27491043/game-of-thrones-character-still-alive-episode-6-jaime-lannister-theory/

The White Walkers could possibly play a role in the finale according to this theory - https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a27491189/game-of-thrones-fan-theory-white-walkers-play-role-finale/

Posted by: HausofTove 16th May 2019, 01:39 PM

The white Walker theory I can see. Like the final shot of the series being the baby opening its eye and it being blue. :')

Posted by: 365 16th May 2019, 01:53 PM

I predict:

- Dany is evil tyrant now. Executing people left right and centre
- Jon and/or Arya will kill Dany. (May die in process?) Not sure how they'll deal with Drogon
- Sansa will end up Queen of the independent north
- Someone boring will be given king...Bran...Or Sam?
The End

Posted by: Severin 16th May 2019, 05:27 PM

If Cersei, Jaime, Jon and Danaerys are all dead at the end, technically Gendry has the best claim to the throne

Posted by: 365 16th May 2019, 10:14 PM

This is a really great in depth analysis from someone who clearly loves the show a lot. (You only really need to watch the second half). The most interesting thing highlighted is the lose-lose situation Dany was put into, and it really explains it well for hurt fans that don't really know why the last episode didn't quite land the way it wanted to.

Posted by: Rooney 16th May 2019, 10:18 PM

Suspect Dany will kill one of Jon/Tyrion/Sansa and this will be what sets up either Arya or Jon to kill her.

Agree the White Walkers will probably be the final shot, leading it all full circle after peace in the Kingdom is declared.

Posted by: Jαsє 16th May 2019, 10:40 PM

https://www.change.org/p/hbo-remake-game-of-thrones-season-8-with-competent-writers

Now over 620,000 signatures to redo season 8

Posted by: Saenerys 17th May 2019, 05:29 AM

Arya, Jon and Bran to die please. I don’t want Dany to die and don’t feel Jon killing her serves this whole “I love you”//“she is my queen” lark as it wouldn’t suit it all and would be another rushed development. Arya killed the night king so I think someone else deserves a big moment this season. Right now I’d accept Sansa coming north with Brienne and them killing her.

Posted by: Qween 17th May 2019, 06:21 AM

Dany is definitely a goner, don’t even care who does it. I’d like it to be Arya so she can die in the process. Sansa to rule them all. Jon can go be boring somewhere for the rest of his life.

Posted by: blacksquare 17th May 2019, 11:06 AM

I'm 99% convinced Jon is killing Dany — it's too predictable so they won't pass that up.

Posted by: Envoirment 17th May 2019, 06:12 PM

I feel that Jon will kill Dany's last dragon Drogon whilst surviving its flames, proving he is a Targaryen. Then Arya will kill Dany. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there's a plot twist and Sansa kills Dany.

Posted by: dandy* 17th May 2019, 06:44 PM

I feel like it is all going to mirror the events that started all of this in the first place, ie the mad king/mad queen being taken down in some form by a Stark, a Lannister and a Baratheon.

(I feel it explains why Gendry has been kept alive as he's the type of character they would otherwise have just killed off when his blood was required - and also why they focussed on him being made a Baratheon)

Posted by: Jαsє 17th May 2019, 06:59 PM

I'll be surprised if we don't get the basic ending of Jon killing Dany

Posted by: 365 17th May 2019, 07:01 PM

Yeah, I'd like to think GOT wasn't predictable. It never used to be. But...yeah.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 17th May 2019, 07:34 PM

The ending everyone is yawning about is the right ending. A series that allows power-mad dictators to win out over good and democracy would be a farce. Jon is the rightful heir for anyone bothered about that, always was, just kept hidden by Ned Stark. Jon is the only main character that is elected BY THE PEOPLE, the only one that undergoes a resurrection with the help of a God/magic, the only one that doesn't want power, never wanted power, and always did the right thing no matter what FOR THE PEOPLE. The entire series has been based around those themes, and it's called "Game" of "Thrones".

Suddenly everyone loves mad dictators, evil queens, and want to change the ending Misery-style "I'm Your Greatest Fan"!

Please, it's epic, and any ending that doesn't stay true to the raison d'etre of the show (Power corrupts; Jon is the resurrected destined saviour of all mankind; everyone played a role they were meant to play) just cheapens the entire series. The only rulers we know are well-meaning are Jon Snow, Tyrion, Bran, and err that's it. Bran is in his own universe, Tyrion is a Lanister and wouldnt be acceptable, and the only one capable of bringing peace love and harmony is Jon Snow. Sanza as back-up married to Tyrion if Bron doesnt kill him might work as a second-rate alternative if Jon Snow sacrifices himself as a Jesus figure.

That Jonny comes over as yawnsome when youve got a fiery blonde with dragons isn't the point. Might as well vote for loveable dictators who say they are destined to rule, despite a habit of executing people left right and centre, conquering cities and destroying infrastructure before buggering off and leaving them with a bandit in charge and no army to defend what was briefly set up. And what about all those widows left behind from her troops, what happens to them? Power-mad, always was...

Posted by: Chez Wombat 17th May 2019, 08:20 PM

I'm still a little doubtful even with the destiny saying so that Jon would be welcomed by his sisters and the Kingdom with open arms after effectively supporting and enabling Dany's slaughter even if he backs out now and finally decides he does want it, he's clearly a flawed leader too in that sense. I think he could well be the one to kill Dany or Drogon given he's Targaryen blood, but I just can't see him ruling, my money's still on Sansa.

Posted by: Klaus 18th May 2019, 10:00 AM

I can't believe we've suffered through 8 (minus one) seasons of Bran's shite only because 'destiny' means he has to learn Jon's true parentage for him to get the throne. Surely there was a less painful way x

Posted by: Rooney 18th May 2019, 11:04 AM

Well technically didn't Bran show us exactly what was going to happen? For all we know there may be a further twist there.

I've no idea what is going to happen in the finale apart from I'd expect the first 2 thirds to deal with the aftermath of episode 5 and the final third of the episode is probably set a little bit in the future. I can't see any way Dany survives the series, that's the only thing I would say. Also I think for those people saying Jon is too obvious, ffs in Season 1 he was an unwanted bast*rd sent to live his life out at Castle Black. Fast forward 8 seasons and he's potentially about to sit on the Iron Throne!

Posted by: Severin 18th May 2019, 06:47 PM

This is spot on. Especially the section about Dany in the last episode

Posted by: Rooney 18th May 2019, 07:20 PM

Good video. Sums up a lot of my thoughts too on the over reaction. I've been here all before with LOST.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 19th May 2019, 09:31 AM

Yes it's all spot-on that summary. Everything is in the scripts of previous seasons, and no it's not just bad "foreshadowing" it's the whole POINT of the show set up staring you in the face throughout, that's why it's one of the greatest TV shows of all-time, it's so beautifully constructed, understands human nature, power, religion, and much more. The dragons, the magic, are the trappings in the same way as Shakespeare used history and fantasy for exploring human nature and commenting. Great art is almost always about the nature of human beings and their failings or achievements and struggles.

Dany fans rewatch season 7, especially the penultimate episode for path-laying-out. She's always been flawed - I love both Cersei and Dany as strong characters played by brilliant actresses, but one is pure evil and not sympathetic, one becomes the thing she set out to destroy and is a tragic figure.

Posted by: Klaus 19th May 2019, 10:12 AM

Let’a not gloss over this bad writing though:

Posted by: Iz~ 19th May 2019, 11:36 AM

Bad writing or no, I will try and lay a final judgement of this season once this episode has aired. I reckon the ending is indeed going to be obvious, but the details, and the conclusion of character arcs I think will be what make the last season overall worthwhile or not.

Posted by: Rooney 19th May 2019, 04:04 PM

There was a leaked spoiler on reddit about the finale from someone whose get everything right so far apparently. I've not read it, but judging from the reactions I've read, if people thought the content of episode 5 was bad, the roof will come off with how the show ends

Posted by: Popchartfreak 19th May 2019, 04:13 PM

errr that's not evidence of bad writing, that's evidence of supreme arrogance on the part of Dany - in a hurry to get it all over with before everyone turns on her and supports Jon Snow for the throne when the word gets out. It shows she's arrogantly assuming the fleet won't be able to stop her and her forces, and her dragons, arrogantly ignoring sound advice about caution, getting troops rested, planning ahead, arrogantly not checking the area before invading, lying about not levelling King's Landing and using force not persuasion to gain power, murdering her advisor, ignoring her Hand, getting her best friend killed, getting her dragon killed, seeing Jon as a betrayer, having lost shitloads of her troops and her loyal protector (who she cast out twice and threatened to kill).

Supreme arrogance and delusions of destiny, as she consistently has shown throughout the series. That's good writing, not bad. It's a Greek Tragedy with the potential hero falling thanks to their own flaws and for no other reason. They could easily have mentioned the fleet as being "location unknown" and her ignoring it, but it's not a huge gaping hole and could easily be plugged. I'm more amazed nobody comments on her stunning powers of defeating gravity as she sits on a dragon dodging this way and that, up and down, like a bloody rollercoaster only way way faster - and never falls off except at the battle at Winterfell. I'm sure could have forged a seatbelt

Posted by: 365 19th May 2019, 04:17 PM

I feel a lot of fans are taking the bad writing observations a bit too personally because of how invested we are and have been with the show for so many years.. It's okay to acknowledge them or at least respect others feel like that and continue happily enjoying the show!

I suggest watching the video I posted on the last page for a good counter argument anyway.

While I feel like the above or something very similar will be the outcome, I would love the ending to be something to do with the Wights/Night King. Their threat no longer being there feels odd given it's been a looming threat of death since episode 1

Posted by: Popchartfreak 19th May 2019, 04:19 PM

The people decide letting rulers govern them is a very bad idea indeed and set up a democratic representative parliament? That would be SO fab, none of them get an Iron Throne

Posted by: Klaus 19th May 2019, 04:21 PM

omg Euron Greyjoy hosted Eurovision in 2014 💀

Posted by: Saenerys 20th May 2019, 04:23 AM

Worst episode of the series. I have so many objections to the ending specifically as to how.

Posted by: tommie 20th May 2019, 05:17 AM

I liked the part where Cersei rose and executed them all x

Posted by: Botchia 20th May 2019, 07:07 AM

Posted by: Botchia 20th May 2019, 07:09 AM

At least Sansa ended up Queen In The North I guess

Posted by: blacksquare 20th May 2019, 07:41 AM

Posted by: 365 20th May 2019, 08:05 AM

I....

Posted by: kye 20th May 2019, 09:07 AM

think we’ve found the real three eyed raven.

Posted by: Bjork 20th May 2019, 09:45 AM

not bad, not amazing but not Lost-bad ending

I think they could have given Cersei a better finale, was thinking Tyrion would find her still alive in the catacombs and after some tense dialog he would end up killing her like the prophecy said

bit disappointed about how Jon ends, at the end of the day he's the right heir to the throne, sure he killed Dany but thats hardly anything on GoT

I guess it's not a bad ending, Sansa queen of the north, Bran king of the 6 kingdoms and Jon king beyond the north.

Posted by: Mart!n 20th May 2019, 09:51 AM

Worst episode of the series, I knew Jon was going to kill Dany in the end with no throne to sit on Bran king of the 6 Kingdoms felt more of a damp squib. There is nothing else I can comment on that episode, the last season felt so underwhelming, it just felt so rushed.

Posted by: Klaus 20th May 2019, 10:14 AM

f***ing bran, let me go back to being annoyed that his storyline was pointless

I think (?) I did otherwise like the ending although I’m not sure they can be so confident that everything is fine and settled now. I guess it is more about the different houses (for what little there are left) working together for once but surely you’ll still have the people who are like Littlefinger, Cersei who will try and claim the power, after all, it is the Game of Thrones and the wheel isn’t as broken as Tyrion would like to think.

Despite hating Bran, I did like that the Starks are now the power family with each of them getting the power that is fitted to them. They’ve obviously been the central family for the audience to follow and support so it’s nice to start and the series with them.

I am kind of torn about Season 8 as a whole, I dk think the Mad Queen should have happened but it would have been better had there been more episodes to allow it to build more naturally. I think the treatment of the two main antagonists (White Walkers & Cersei) also wasn’t great and, again, would have worked better over more episodes.

Posted by: 365 20th May 2019, 10:21 AM

Yeah, the mad queen storyline felt...right. But the way it was done I wish they'd just kind of not bothered. As I've said before, I think Dany should have taken the throne earlier. At least 2/3 episodes earlier, but maybe up to a season earlier. Having her go power-mad as the queen would have given that storyline some room to breathe and made it a little more believable.

Why didn't the unsullied kill Jon?

Posted by: Iz~ 20th May 2019, 10:36 AM

Second-BEST episode of the season, after episode 2.

Hold on, how is it really good when characters we don't like and find boring get elevated to the top? Because throughout this single episode, everything made sense. I didn't have to handwave any actions or explain anything away, it truly feels that no matter the shortened seasons, this was the finale we were always going to get. GRRM must have drafted the events that happened here in quite some detail.

Simple example of why I feel that way can be summed up in the small council scene. That single scene made me realise how much I'd missed the true political intrigue of GoT, when words were weapons, and the actual weapons were sheathed. Bronn and Davos aren't antagonists right now, and their banter is much more friendly than previous small councils doing similar things, but that's what I got into this show for, the clever running of the kingdoms. The reintroduction of minor figures like Edmure Tully and even just an extra playing the new Dorne lord, it made the world feel bigger again. And for what it's worth, I'm so happy that characters like Davos and Brienne ended up where they did, they deserved to survive the war - Brienne writing out Jaime's deeds got me going a little.

And the final solution, to turn the kingdoms into an elective monarchy, makes a whole lot of sense for their society and country, which has been for too long essentially seven vassal kings under a disliked central monarch, ripe for intrigue. Especially in the show's timeframe, when one of those seven has elevated themselves, it makes it unstable as all of the lords begin to see themselves as potentially the next king (or otherwise gaining power) if they use violence to get there. But at that meeting, if they'd suggested anyone other than Bran, I guarantee it would have descended into infighting. The Vale lords, Yara, they were ready to fight. To say nothing of Sansa. If Bran can't father children, he's the best choice to start off this new regime, a figurehead more than a family. Made even better by his family declaring independence and therefore no longer being involved.

Who's to say how long this system will hold, but after all the talk about how Targaryens are born and the gods flip a coin, is the show really going to end by putting one of them back on the throne? No, and it's only by watching this episode did I realise, after Jon's talk with Tyrion, before he killed Dany, that he was never going to take the throne. It would just be about recreating a tyranny, if not through Jon himself, then perhaps his son. I reckon the new regime will be far more stable.

There were a couple of moments I really like, the fear that was palpable as Dany announced her new regime, it just looked and sounded so evil in contrast to what she was saying. That was all I needed to get an idea of it, and despite that Jon didn't find it easy. The other moment was Drogon destroying the Iron Throne after he realised that it was that obsession that caused his mother's death. Dragons aren't stupid.

It brought a lasting change, it resonated with me, they did a good job showing the kingdom go back to normality, I'm happy with that. And rather importantly, I can think of very few loose ends they didn't touch on.

For the season overall:

Rushed, yes. Some plot holes, yes. Enjoyable to watch all the way through.... yes. Some things I wish they'd done include make minor plot changes to defeat the Night King in perhaps episode 5 as the Dany/Jon alliance moves south, maybe they come face to face with Cersei, maybe Missandei gets killed as Cersei plays the game, causing Dany to go fire-burning in the moment of victory against the dead. Would have made a bit better, yes. Made it a lot better, no.

So I do think that three seasons with 10 episodes with writing much closer to whatever the books and GRRM have in mind would have made this whole thing better, but I still very much enjoyed what happened. I also think time will be kind to this season, as people forget their unrealised theories, as they rewatch the whole thing. It may not have been the best we could have got, but it was good enough. I'm also sort of reminded of the Fullmetal Alchemist situation, one of the most popular manga ever, got an anime adaptation that made up an anime-original ending, still considered a great anime, but they made a more faithful adaptation under the subtitle Brotherhood 6 years later. No, a Brotherhood isn't coming for GoT, but we're getting spinoffs and that will keep the fans happy as they get a bit of a reboot.

And that is it for Game Of Thrones, wow. It will go down as one of the best television series of all time, seasons 1-4 especially, but the latter half I do think will be more appreciated with time.

also, btw, if anyone wanted more to be done with the White Walkers, Attack On Titan right now is giving me personally everything I could ever want, whole seasons in fact, about unstoppable monsters breaking past a huge wall to destroy humanity with pluses of political intrigue and massive spoilers about everything in the series... so if that part of GoT appeals to you, the twists, people dying, destruction of humanity etc go watch that.

Posted by: Klaus 20th May 2019, 10:56 AM

I agree that it will get better in time. Due to the nature of the world and the number of different storylines, this show is up there with Lost re the number of different theories about the show and how it should end. In this world where we avoid any single slight of a spoiler, including episode titles, I've been reading a few articles where people enjoy spoilers because they can enjoy the journey better as they understand where the characters/show is heading. I think that is where GoT will benefit as we know everyone's destiny now, we know who survives and who dies, who holds the power and who loses it, who is of significance to the ultimate endgame. We can appreciate everyone's journey more particularly the likes of Arya and Bran who weren't necessarily fighting for the throne or for power and we appreciate where their characters end up. Also, we can particularly follow Dany's journey with more scrutiny as she has always been the most obvious to get the throne and I know certain people were annoyed she didn't get to Westeros earlier because of the army and power she had but that all kind of plays into why she turns into the Mad Queen.

Posted by: Severin 20th May 2019, 12:06 PM

Thought it was a perfectly fine ending. Not the greatest maybe but no major issues with it. Minor query on why the Dothraki weren’t more annoyed by her death or why they so willingly agreed to bugger off
Everything else made some sense

Posted by: Esmerelda 20th May 2019, 12:13 PM

Round of applause for Lena Heady for pocketing 1 million dollars for this episode for lying in some rubble.

Posted by: Bjork 20th May 2019, 12:37 PM

for me, Danny going crazy is a good ending for her, kinda saw it coming
but Cersei has been really under-used in season 8 despite being like the main evil character all along, she did nothing during s08 and died in a boring way
she deserved a much better dead lol

Posted by: Klaus 20th May 2019, 01:44 PM

At least Hodor’s poor life ends up meaning even more now

Posted by: Bjork 20th May 2019, 02:26 PM

thinking about it, what doesn't make sense is Jon being sentenced to the wall
when Jamie did the same to the mad king and nothing happened to him

I think it would have been better if Jon had decided on his own will to leave and head for the wall
rather than being sentenced there

Posted by: 365 20th May 2019, 02:48 PM

Why is there even a night's watch now anyway? The wall was destroyed, the Night King is dead, and there is peace with the freefolk...

Posted by: Klaus 20th May 2019, 03:00 PM

I think it was to appease Greyworm and the Unsullied but also allowing freedom for Jon because, by all means, he should have the throne and him being alive, kinda goes against them nominating someone to be ruler as there is an actual heir there. However, he doesn’t want to rule and kinda lives his life by duty and protection so the Night’s Watch is perfect for him. I guess they still have a Watch as Beyond the Wall is still unchartered territory which may have more terrible beings?? Him going Beyond the Wall rather than staying behind and guarding it suggests he’s going to explore?

Posted by: Severin 20th May 2019, 03:06 PM

It means Jon’s lineage becomes irrelevant as he again renounces any titles and cannot claim right to the throne. Nor could any of the children he’s not supposed to have. They also state the Nights Watch is needed as a place to send undesirables. Jon ignores it and buggers off beyind the wall anyway meaning someone else will take over

Posted by: dandy* 20th May 2019, 03:31 PM

Well I guess I should have seen the Bran ending coming, after all he's been practising sitting on things since episode 2.

Posted by: Jαsє 20th May 2019, 04:03 PM

The finale currently sits at 59% on RT, dragging S8's overall rating down to 70%.

Posted by: Harve 20th May 2019, 05:53 PM

Never watched this programme but I get the impression that Bran ending up as king is the medieval fantasy equivalent of Karen Bradley ending up as the UK's prime minister in a few months right.

Posted by: Burns 20th May 2019, 07:55 PM

4.7/10 on IMDb!!

I don’t even know what to say tbh

Posted by: Envoirment 20th May 2019, 08:19 PM

The finale was good and glad everyone pretty much ended up where I hoped they would. It's a shame the season felt so rushed though - there were many small details that I would've liked added or certain things extended/built up (Varys' betrayal, Dany's army vs Euron Greyjoy's ships, Cersei actually doing something etc).

Cersei's death was the main thing I was annoyed about. I was really hoping Tyrion would find her alive and either have to kill her or help her escape.

It's quite nice to see the Stark family firmly in power. Bran as king of the six kingdoms, Sansa as queen of the north and John essentially "king" of the far north.

Arya's adventures are likely going to be its own spin-off which'll be interesting. She's going the way of Elissa Farman. There's some interesting theories about Elissa and about her travelling west and reaching Asshai.

Overall, I'm a little sad now it's ended, but I'm also excited for the next chapter in the GoT franchise. Hopefully we'll get Arya's adventures west, a prequel showing the events that lead up to the mad king and his death and perhaps something about Melisandre... Tbh there's lots of things that can be expanded on. Hopefully George R.R. Martin will finish and release the rest of the books to add even more depth to the story.

Posted by: Chez Wombat 20th May 2019, 09:05 PM

It's Bran, it's ALWAYS FUCKING BRAN Idk how we didn't see it coming

I think I need time for this to sink in...I THINK I liked it? I do think that the ending seemed fitting overall, we all wondered what Bran's purpose was and I suppose it was under our noses all that time even if that storyline was way, way too convoluted and complex throughout so that did leave a bitter taste, Sansa and Arya's positions were fitting though and I think that's a good ending for Jon as that was his crowning moment leading the wildlings and I knew that he just couldn't take the crown at that point. I admire that there was more focus on conversations and humour and less on fighting as I guess the last episode had more than enough of that. I did still find myself wanting a bit more though...Yara might as well have not been there, that still seemed so rushed for the Lannisters' deaths and I was kinda hoping for at least some recognition from Dany of what she did to at least harken back to the character she was, but she was clearly completely consumed, it really is a sour end that while I don't disagree with, I do wish had more time to develop. It's a shame really as we'll never get another chance now.

I'll give it credit, almost no loose ends were left untied (Jon even petted Ghost! You critics better take back your words xx), I am wondering about the point of Gendry after all that though, he was again pretty much pointless apart from electing Bran, I really thought he'd have a bit more significance given his heritage (I mean that death pool we did at the start of the series will look strange now, not like there was no deaths, but in terms of lead characters, I certainly was expecting more of them dead!)

And that's that I guess. It's not quite hit me yet, certainly will go down as one of the greatest shows of all time, albeit definitely one that peaked a bit too soon and got a bit too big for itself in the end. I agree that it will get better with time and will benefit from a rewatch as we know where all the characters are going and can properly notice the signs, free of fan theories and expectations.

Posted by: Rooney 20th May 2019, 11:16 PM

Gosh all I've read all day is people moaning about the finale. It's the same as people giving the finale low ratings or saying it's shit. It's not shit, it's because it didn't happen how they wanted it to happen. Obviously this is George RR Martin's ending and for me it fits perfectly. I've seen it all before, people moan for moanings sake. I've been watching this show since the day after it aired on HBO for the very first time in 2011. I'm entirely satisfied with the ending. The only thing I agree they could have done better is the whole Jon/Dany ending halfway through as that was really the culmination of everything that happened since Ned Stark died.

I think people are more annoyed that neither Jon or Dany ended up on the Throne. Bran obviously knew he was going to end up there, but again for the good of the Realm he probably is the right person to lead the place through harmony before an eventual heir is chosen. I also loved the ending with the Small Council, I thought that was some great closure.

I really enjoyed it, the focus on the four Stark kids was beautiful and it fit in with where the characters had progressed (OK maybe with the exception of Bran). Podrick becomes the new Hodor.

Posted by: 365 21st May 2019, 08:13 AM

Erm, the ratings have been great, as usual, I don't know where you're getting that from. The last few episodes were the highest rated episodes ever. It's the critics, who have given in depth analyses of the episodes since season 1 who have given it mixed to bad reviews.

This "it didn't end the way you wanted to" defense is so unfounded, and none of the criticisms I've seen have looked that way in the slightest, and I think its hurt fans that can't take the criticism that are projecting that. It's about lazy writing and not fleshing out the plots the way they used to. Nobody is moaning for moaning's sake. Everyone was excited for the season and many were let down, which is allowed. In fact, it has had more plot holes than Game of Thrones ever had. So I think if you're able to say how much you liked it, others should be allowed without being patronised about it.

Anyway, I've properly watched the finale now, and I enjoyed it a lot more than the past couple of episodes, and overall, I'm pretty happy with how things were tied up. Once you got past Dany's drastic and jarring transformation over two episodes from who she'd been for 7 seasons, I found it a really exciting way to open the episode. In fact I wish we'd had more time with Dany as the evil queen, because it was a really interesting dynamic and made for a very haunting and dark set up. Dany's death scene I found to be genuinely moving, and I was really pleased Drogon got his moment before flying off to eat Dany in peace.

Bran as king is...underwhelming, but I can't really see who else it could be, so it doesn't massively offend me. Some of the moments of closure were really beautiful though, Arya saying goodbye to Jon, Sansa finally having a crown and Brienne writing in Jaime's obituary at the end all made me shed a tear. Tyrion was utterly useless until the very end though, Drogon should have had him for supper 2 seasons ago.

The unsullied being sent off to start their own civilisation despite not being able to reproduce...They got duped!

So yeah, despite the flaws of the season overall, the finale could have been a lot worse. It dragged in places and could have done with a bit more excitement in its second half but there was a lot to tie up so I think they did well with what they had.

Posted by: dandy* 21st May 2019, 08:40 AM

I quite enjoyed the final episode and I was sort of happy with how things panned out - Bran wouldn't have been my first choice but at least it gives some meaning to some of the stuff we had to follow along the way! Remember when he all but disappeared for a while, I do wonder if George RR Martin had a word and said errrr you'd best bring his story back... plus if you'd have asked me to bet in episode one, the small kid who fell from the window would have probably been the last person I'd have thought! He's quite a sensible choice in a way as the three eyed raven, but I've never personally been as invested in Bran in the same way as some of the others - it made me think when Tyrion gave his speech about Bran having a good story that I'd personally found the telling of Bran's story entirely secondary and even a tad boring when compared to most of the others, as such I hadn't built up any emotional attachment to the character - in fact he's one of the few characters I'd have happily seen die at any point in the past few seasons - and his turning into the somewhat emotionless three eyed raven only made him less charismatic.

The scenes with Dany were really good I thought, she played the part really well - didn't go too OTT but was convincing in both her awful intent but also her belief it was for the greater good. It saddened me a bit even more regarding pacing (sorry to moan about that yet again!) as it showed a glimpse of just how amazing the episodes could have been if she'd been able to rule for a little longer after defeating the Lannisters - Cersei did bugger all this season and in retrospect I think the taking of Kings Landing would have made an amazing end to Season 7, Cersei would have had her moment and the focus this season could have been on Dany going mad and defeating the dead. Tyrion was back to being great and I'm pleased he got so much time in the final show, he didn't shine quite as brightly on his travels with Dany but he's been great again as soon as he was near Kings Landing. So happy that Brienne made it through to the end with Pod, I'd have been really sad if one of them had died as I've found their companionship throughout the show really lovely. My personal niggle is that Arya didn't have as much to do this episode as I'd have hoped, she's definitely been my favourite character since the beginning.

The Stark scenes in general have been good this year and I'm pleased that we saw such happy endings for Sansa, Arya, Bran and Jon (in his own way) - after the early culling of so many of them in the first two seasons or so I hadn't expected them to end the series anywhere near as powerfully as they have done - and it's a lovely ending to compare to the kids seen in the first episode.

My favourite bit of the whole episode though was Tyrion arranging the chairs, the small council coming in and the joyful conversation between them all - a nod to the moments that truly made this show great.

Oh and can we just mention the theme tune and opening credits one final time, definitely my favourites ever - I've never known a show fill me with such anticipation just from the opening titles.

Posted by: Dexton 21st May 2019, 10:41 AM

I enjoyed this episode a lot, I wasn't particularly surprised by anything that happened but it wasn't entirely predictable either.

Standout moments for me were Danaerys standing atop the stairs with Drogon just behind her which was truly a magnificent shot with so much meaning, Jon killing Dany (although him half standing up for her up until that point felt a bit off to me, It's something he'd do but I wasn't feeling it especially as he'd watched the slaughter first hand), Drogon burning the Iron Throne WHICH WAS FANTASTIC - make jokes all you want about that but dragons have always been described as one of the most intelligent creatures in ASOIAF/GoT and he knew full well that his mother was killed by lust for power just as much as she was by Jons dagger. In fact Drogon was a highlight all around this episode, I loved how they didn't kill him off in the end which while it would've been an easy option it would've been very unfair to kill off all 3 dragons. Disappearing into the skies holding Dany was beautiful, left to live out his days however he wants freely living in the open world. Maybe he's gone back to Valyria or the Bay of Dragons, or maybe he just travels the world inspiring stories of a lone flying beast who steals goats.

Bran the Broken was a nice ending. I don't know who else could have become Ruler of the 6/7 Kingdoms without starting yet another civil war.

Posted by: cantthinkofaname 21st May 2019, 10:50 AM

The main problem with this season is that it's filled to the brim with inconsistencies which is not what this show has ever been known for. (and no I'm not just talking about coffee cups and water bottles). Characters seem to have forgotten a great deal of things this season.

Some examples of why I hated this season include:
- Tyrion saying that Bran being infertile is a good thing when he considered it a bad thing when Dany's infertility was discussed.
- Yara laughing at the thought of a democracy in the seven kingdom when that's literally how they choose their kings & queens in the Iron Islands.
- The Dothraki conveniently forgetting that whoever kills their Khal or Khaleesi becomes their new Khal or Khaleesi.
- Bran knowing he'd become king also means he knew that Dany would go mad and murder a million people and did nothing to stop it.
- Sam being in King's Landing despite never having been released of his vows to the Night's Watch means he technically should be executed but ok what are rules anyway.
- Jaime and Cersei literally could have moved 5 feet to the left to survive the falling debris even though we were led to believe the entire building had collapsed as evidenced by https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bqvr0w/dd_kinda_forgot_the_entire_building_collapsed/.
- The Unsullied executed Lannister soldiers immediately despite surrendering, but followed due process and locked the person who killed their queen away for two weeks to await trial by a group of people including their friends and family.
- So many important scenes being cut away for absolutely no reason other than convenience, like Jon telling Sansa & Arya of his lineage, how TF Euron managed to steal Missandei (and how TF he knew she was important), how Jon explained to Grey Worm and the Unsullied what happened between him and Dany, etc.
- Dany forgetting the god damn iron fleet. And don't try to say that she was arrogant enough to think she could beat them or whatever, the writers literally said that she forgot about them.
- Dany being ok with murdering millions of innocents while a few seasons back she locked away her dragons for killing even only one innocent child.
- Dany not even once trying to kill Cersei in E5 despite her being the main reason why she went mad. In E6 we see she's not even found the body (and presumably hasn't even bothered to check since nothing points that way) as Tyrion is the one who (very easily) found it. Does she even care that Cersei is dead? Same for the people who killed Drogon (Euron) and Missandei (The Mountain). Neither of them were killed by her and she doesn't really seem to care which is odd. The thousands and thousands of innocents who did nothing to her however..
- All of the storylines we were led to believe were important but ended up having literally zero impact on the show, such as: Jon's lineage, Varys sending out the info about Jon before being executed, Arya's face changing skills, Bran's warging thing during the Battle of Winterfell, Bronn's subplot, that damn horse that Arya met at the end of E5, the lord of light, the prince that was promised, THE GOD DAMN NIGHT KING
- So many people having the thickest and most impenetrable plot armour ever built.

I could easily go on and on. Safe to say this season was terrible and I will never be convinced otherwise. The fact that HBO offered D&D to make TEN SEASONS to wrap up the show and they refused is just infuriating. This wound up being like when you've been working on a project for a while but the deadline is coming up so you just try to wrap up everything in a hurry and accidentally forget everything you've written up until that point.

I'm not pissed about the end result. I'm pissed about how we got there and how little sense it makes. If they had made it in the same convincing manner that the majority of the previous seasons have been I'd have been fine with Dany going mad and all of that shit but none of this made sense and like the video 365 posted on page 1 says: foreshadowing is NOT character development.

Posted by: dandy* 21st May 2019, 12:04 PM

I didn't think Bran knew the future or maybe I've misunderstood? I thought he could only visit the past?

Posted by: Dexton 21st May 2019, 12:19 PM

- Bare in mind there was a mass murder in between Tyrion saying both those things, plus as he said himself he's "had a lot of time to think" being imprisoned for ~1 month. He brought up the question of who Dany thought would rise to throne when she eventually died because her whole agenda was that she (a Targaryen) needs to retake her family throne. She wanted her family to be rulers of the 7 Kingdoms again and Tyrion was questioning how the Targaryen name would live on if the last living Targaryen was infertile. Bran being infertile has no impact on the future rulers of Westeros because his son/daughter would not immediately be the heir. If he were to have a son, there would likely be people wanting the prince to become the king when his father died but Bran being infertile eliminates this issue from the get-go. It'll be an issue in future generations I'm sure but while they're rebuilding a new and better world this rules out a possible future war.
- Democracy in Westeros could never work because of how big it is but in the Iron Islands or in The Nights Watch it works because it's a smaller group of people who genuinely do all have the same interests. Sam bringing that up was perfect but idk why Yara didn't agree with him but say exactly what I just said tbh. A Westeros-wide vote for whether the crown should spend more money on healthcare vs more money on agriculture would f*** them up instantly. The Iron Islands would want more/better food because they can't grow their own yet live a relatively peaceful lifestyle, whereas Dorne would be the opposite as whilst they have heaps of land for crops they're a former-Kingdom all about fighting and sex eg wounds and diseases.
- The Dothraki forgetting their Khal/Khaleesi rule was very convenient but I'm glad they didn't decide to follow Jon because oh shit theres another war Unsullied vs Dothraki and if the Dothraki won/Jon died they'd slaughter Kings Landing all over again.
- If Bran had warned people of Dany's descent into madness then they would have prevented her and therefore changed the future, which would mean that Bran had never seen that future before thus reversing anything he'd seen. Or there'd be another reality made where Dany still burns the city down. Idk time travel bullshit really see: Endgame
- Sam's been appointed to King's Landing as a maester The Lord Commander of the Nights Watch sent Sam to study to become a maester and then the head maester(?) has decided to send Sam to Kings Landing instead of The Wall. Likely because Bran requested him or even The Wall isn't an option for maesters at that point in time because it's run by freefolk.
- Last's weeks scene where Jaime and Cersei are crushed made it look like the whole building fell down on them. This week with Tyrion finding them in the rubble was just to be dramatic tbh. They either should have shown the whole floor covered in bricks or just had them crushed by a pillar or something. Unlucky Lannisters
- Grey Worm is ruthlessly devoted to Dany so I'm surprised he didn't kill Jon immediately, my only guess is that Jon confessed to his own men first maybe or a large group of them so Grey Worm chose not to murder Jon to stop his own people being killed straight up. A complete guess. Although with him killing Lannisters, that was on Dany's order rather than them following any 'rules'.
- Jon telling Sansa & Arya off screen was just to save us of hearing the same old story for a third time in the space of a week Euron knew Missandei was important to Dany because she was at the meeting at the Dragon Pitt. I imagine his #1 target was Grey Worm or Tyrion as higher up in her 'staff' but Missandei was easier to snatch.
- The writers were stupid to say she "kind of forgot about the iron fleet". She could have just not been expecting an attack so soon, or she thought they'd get to Dragonstone in time, but no they said that which no one can defend tbh.
- Dany's endgame has always been to take the Iron Throne through force really. She said it to the Dothraki right back in Season 1/2 and has said it countless more times since then. She locked away Rhaegal and Viserion because the dragons were getting too big to be allowed freeroam and were killing innocent children, she couldn't control them as teenage dragons so keeping them contained was an easier option. Jump to last week, she's lost everything and after seeing how easily King's Landing surrendered she realised that the people will never be loyal to her out of anything other than fear. A week after her taking the city another, larger army could rock up at the gates and the people would ring their bells and pledge loyalty to the invaders just so they don't die. She had enough of that and considered the people of the city an enemy to her just as much as Cersei. Twisted and sick but not out of character.
- Realistically she would've had Unsullied searching for Cersei/Euron/The Mountain but stopped to give her big tyrant speech before that. It's also possible she just assumed they were dead as she knew Cersei and The Mountain were in the Red Keep when she destroyed it.
- Jon's lineage is the main reason Dany went full Mad Queen? A man who is loved by literally everyone who also happens to be a Targarygen comes out of nowhere and everyone in the North claims him as their king with no backing down. Varys betraying Dany didn't really go anywhere, no, but Varys (and Littlefinger tbh) had to die for the next reign to be any different from say King Roberts. Arya's time training to become a Faceless Man was all for her to avenge her mother and brother, which she did. Her 'prophecy' given by Melisandre was basically rejected by Arya who chose her own life over Cersei's death. f*** knows where Bran went when the Night King was coming for him. I would've loved for some clarity there but whatever, I guess he was looking into the future at him becoming King during that time which we could've see bc it'd spoil the finale Bronn's arc ended in him choosing endless riches and a noble name over a bit less money and a bit less noble name. He was given Highgarden in exchange for Tyrions life and thus ending up as Bran's Master of Coin because he is head of the richest land in Westeros.
- Idk if the horse really meant anything, if she'd had killed Dany it could have been argued that the horse was some kind of incarnation of the Lord of Light bringing Arya back to life from the rubble to fulfill her destiny and kill the Queen. But nah that didn't happen, I guess a horse just walked into the city.
- Didn't Jon fulfill the prince that was promised prophecy by plunging his sword into his lovers heart? He was reborn literally by the Lord of Light (through Melisandre) who deemed he still had things to do in this world eg. defeat the Night King but also figuratively as he was reborn in the dust and tears of Kings Landing to defeat the Mad Queen. He had nothing but love and devotion to Dany, but then the bells rung and the city burned whilst he died inside watching the love of his life slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent people. The dust settles, Jon rises and realises (through Tyrion this time) that he must put an end to her reign of darkness (which can also be interpreted as a long night). If ASOIAF/GoT has taught us anything it's that prophecies and destinies aren't always fulfilled the way they were intended to / at all. Cersei was said to marry a King and have 3 children of golden hair whilst her King had 20 children, and she would outlive all 3 of them before being strangled by a younger brother. Tyrions love for his family and Jaimes love for Cersei meant this prophecy couldn't ever be fulfilled. That's not 'bad writing', that's the World of Ice and Fire not being written in stone by the gods (also there's so many different gods who have shown some active impact on the world who's to know The Seven isn't working against the Old Gods or the Lord Of Light to bring it's own prophecies to life by blocking others).
- The Night King ended up being a bit of a farce. A threat for sure but a Season 7 threat.
- Davos and Arya have plot armour made from graphene but they're two of my favourite characters so I don't mind

Posted by: Severin 21st May 2019, 12:23 PM

That's quite literally NOT what happened. The Unsullied without their Queen and liberator had no reason to stay in Westeros to be ruled by a stranger. They then left willingly for Naarth to fulfill the promise Greyworm had made to Missandei only a few episodes back - that they would protect the people of Naarth (who were peaceful and unable to do so themselves).

Posted by: blacksquare 21st May 2019, 12:23 PM

Exactly. My disappointment isn't invalid because others were happy with it. It's all subjective.

The finale was fine — not the epic ending I would have expected a year or two ago but not a disaster. I'm not mad at where the characters ended up, but the rushed and inconsistent journey getting them there was nothing but disappointing. Moments that would have been major in earlier seasons weren't given the time to breathe, etc. There isn't much else to say that hasn't been said elsewhere.

Posted by: 365 21st May 2019, 12:32 PM

Oh it wasn't that deep.

Posted by: Klaus 21st May 2019, 12:37 PM

I don’t really get the argument that Jon being a Tygarean was pointless as it plays such a big part in the season? I keep seeing it everywhere amongst some actual valid points but his heritage is certainly not pointless. It leads to Dany’s aids removing their loyalty, it contributes to the Mad Queen, it drives that further wedge between Ayra & Sansa (therefore the North) and Dany. It shows that there is an alternative to Dany being Queen.

A lot of the people saying it was pointless are the same who would be groaning at Jon being on the throne because it would be too predictable.

Posted by: Iz~ 21st May 2019, 01:02 PM

Further to that, if there actually was anything special about Targaryen blood, then it would be very irresponsible to ultimately let it back on the throne once the first Targ to get back on the throne in years immediately outdoes her father in style. When Tyrion talked about king's sons, I think he was half referring to Targaryens there. The other part of it would have just been the corrupting influence of being born into ultimate power, Joffrey-style.

so why Jon shouldn't take the throne. Even if they at their meeting decided that it would be an election, the presence of the "legitimate heir" would muddy that appearance.

Posted by: cantthinkofaname 21st May 2019, 01:39 PM

The only reason why the Northerners didn't fight for Jon not being outlawed and becoming king is because that would have required another war and another season lol and it's just convenient for the writers to go "Bran is harmless lets make him king" and everyone being like "aight" despite knowing literally nothing about the kid other than Tyrion, the person on trial, sayin he has a GOOD STORY lmao wth. That's why Jon's lineage ultimately doesn't really matter because nobody seemed to actually care in the long run other than Dany. They were all willing to betray Dany for him but then once she's dead at his hands they're like "ok w/e f*** off to the non-existent Night's Watch Jon" and sure Dany losing it was aided by this information but the breaking point was very obviously losing Jorah, Missandei and Rhaegal, especially since she was still close to Jon after burning down King's Landing and trusted him enough to be betrayed when he stabbed her so it seems she was destined to lose it either way.

Posted by: cantthinkofaname 21st May 2019, 02:39 PM

(Can't quote too many so the replies are in order for each point)

I'm not arguing whether democracy would be a good idea or not. I'm commenting on the fact that Yara finding the idea funny/stupid/whatever is weird given that's how she became queen of the Iron Islands lmao. That's sloppy writing.

Again, sloppy writing is the main point here. It's not a question of whether I'd prefer them to forget about it or not. it's the fact that they shouldn't have.

What's the use of knowing the future if you're not going to impact it in any way? Especially if it saves the lives of 1mil people lol. If he doesn't use his power in that manner he's obviously a terrible choice for the ruler of the realm.


Again AFAIK this is all speculation. Previous seasons wouldn't leave all this for speculation, we would have been shown this or somebody would have explained it because otherwise it doesn't really make sense, so not clarifying wtf Sam is doing outside of the Wall is sloppy writing.

Whether it's made to be dramatic or not it's still sloppy writing because the two scenes don't match. If this was a rare continuity error it'd be easy to gloss over but it's not.

Again, leaving important stuff like this to speculation is silly for a show that has explained so many seemingly unimportant things in the past that have proven to matter in the grand scheme of things. Finding out the aftermath of Jon murdering the queen is a ridiculous thing to skip when we had a 10 minute conversation between Jon and Tyrion earlier in the episode.

Seeing how Sansa and Arya react is obviously important because it could have hinted at Sansa going back on her word. Same with Sansa telling Tyrion. But instead we just got a supercut of gossip spreading like wildfire which looked more like it belonged in 90210 than in Game of Thrones. We've had numerous things repeated many many times throughout the show and obviously a revelation like this is important. It's just so cheesy to have the "I have to tell you something" and then cutting away in a show like GOT.

Again, leaving something like this for speculation is ridiculous. Just because she was at the meeting (along with so many other people) does not mean she's of important sentimental value. The Hound was there despite being of no importance to Dany. So were Brienne, Podrick, Theon, etc. Additionally Cersei seemed to know a lot about Missandei including the fact that she used to be a slave despite obviously none of this being revealed at the meeting in the Dragonpit.

Yes, sloppy writing. Also why in the world did she split up her army to go to Dragonstone in the first place? Did she forget her phone there or something? Why didn't she travel with the rest of the army down the Kingsroad?

Eh, I don't really buy that. Obviously this is never explained so this is just speculation yet again. If this was the reason she could have said it either in the speech to the Dothraki/Unsullied last ep or when justifying her actions to Jon but nope she did it just because she mad.

Yet another important thing left for speculation. I also don't think Daenerys would just assume the people who killed her dragon and best friend were dead and just be satisfied with that. Especially since the Red Keep is still half-standing.

Meh.

Him walking into Winterfell with a huge ass crossbow, managing to find Jaime and Tyrion coincidentally sitting together in an entirely empty bar is just hilariously bad comic book villain writing. What should have stopped them from letting guards or just anyone with a weapon know who he is and his allegiance right after he left the room? It made literally no sense and there was really no reason for Tyrion (and the Queen/King) to actually keep his promise to Bronn. Yes I know "Lannisters pay their debts" but lol he's the last living Lannister, who actually cares if he pays his debts to someone who tried to kill him?

A horse with plot armor feels like it should mean anything. I guess it didn't mean anything but why show that scene then? Lmao.

His war literally took one episode and he only killed about 50% of their armies (even though it was pretty obvious that at the end of E3 only about 5% was left alive but w/e) so idk he wasn't really a threat. He was killed with one dagger from someone who appeared out of nowhere managing to somehow get past the thousands of wights surrounding him. Not that big of a threat.

GRRM once said that he doesn't like putting characters in impossible scenarios where plot armour matters. He either kills them or refrains from putting them in impossible scenarios. D&D should really listen to GRRM on this matter.

Posted by: Rooney 21st May 2019, 07:08 PM

I know it's had huge ratings, it's the biggest ever show on Social Media. My point was more with IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes. I have been watching this show since April 2011, it only ever really become absolutely gigantic after the Red Wedding. And then every season it's grow leaps and bounds. My issue is that like Breaking Bad, so many people binged the show and they have only really been following it for a few years. Many people found episodes 1 and 2 boring because nothing happened. If we had 2 more seasons, we'd have the same arguments just in a different format. I think if we look back at all the really big shows that have had final seasons or endings which have been controversial, the only one I think that people have liked is Breaking Bad. I think this season will be looked upon more fondly in the future.

People are right to criticise the show, it did move at lightning speed, but for people clamoring that it should have gone on for 2-3 full seasons.. I can understand why D&D want to move on to different projects. I remember even the shorter seasons before the budget way massively increased used to take 10 months of their lives, then that only increased as the scale grew. Pretty sure most of the cast were signed to 8 year contracts too and were negotiating season by season for the end.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 21st May 2019, 07:13 PM

This wasn't a spoiler. I had no idea what had been suggested, this was me speculating. Half-right....

Posted by: Popchartfreak 21st May 2019, 07:29 PM

Great review Iz, pretty much agree. It had to be the ending. The bit about Jon having kids and back to square one is very true, and something I hadnt considered. A sort of democracy is the appropriate answer after years of mass bloodshed from power-mad ruthless or egotistical rich entitled inherited-arrogance leaders. I loved Sam getting laughed down at the idea of full democracy - yes they considered it!

Bran knew all the time. People get power who don't want it. The dragon destroys the throne but not Jon Snow, as he is also dragon-blood. Quite telling that. What happens with her body? Nobody finishes happy and in love, bar Sam (amongst the major cast) they end up with duties to perform for the betterment of the people. Funny touches, touching moments, the intro with the dark walk through the ruins was brilliant. We have no idea what happens or has happened abroad and how events have helped or damaged those kingdoms.

When I run my top 50 drama shows of all-time, this is right up there with my all-time other 2 faves - but this is plotted from beginning to end, the others are serials that evolve or have stand-alone shows.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 21st May 2019, 07:37 PM

That's how I understood it. He Knows shitloads about the past and present, which means he can see through all lies and know what is right, but he's also wise because of it. The system set up is pretty workable as long as there can be no inherited power on the throne. Perfect ending given the implausibility of one man one vote in a feudal system.

Posted by: Jαsє 21st May 2019, 09:55 PM

Rotten Tomatoes ratings for each series

Season 1 - 91%
Season 2 - 96%
Season 3 - 96%
Season 4 - 97%
Season 5 - 93%
Season 6 - 94%
Season 7 - 93%
Season 8 - 67%

S4 rightfully being the highest

Posted by: Severin 21st May 2019, 11:11 PM

Lol. Seriously, that isn't deep at all, but it was well sign posted.

Posted by: Jαsє 21st May 2019, 11:23 PM

https://twitter.com/nightkingstan/status/1130548698067419137

Posted by: Seinfeld 22nd May 2019, 02:00 AM

Posted by: dandy* 22nd May 2019, 03:55 AM

Have to agree with you - Greyworm did say in the episode that they were heading to Naath and there was lots of talk around in previous episodes between Missandei and him going there to protect the peaceful folk.

Posted by: 365 23rd May 2019, 03:11 PM

No, I meant as in I was kidding, ha.

Posted by: 365 23rd May 2019, 03:12 PM

This is genuinely hilarious.