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sm1ffj View member profile	Feb 24 2018, 07:50 PM Post #1
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 27 December 2010 Posts: 1,928 User: 12,629	Worth a View Tomorrow 5pm on Now90s TV, Sky 370, or Freesat (Maybe Chilled TV on Freesat if you haven't scanned box in a while) Sunday 5pm Length 3 hours 25 mins Mr Charts Bruno Brookes returns with a countdown of the 40 biggest singles of the decade, including 37 UK number 1s and big million-selling hits from Britney Spears, Cher and Elton John. tv.sky.com/tv-guide#/programme/detail/3682/561


sm1ffj View member profile	Feb 26 2018, 03:47 PM Post #2
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 27 December 2010 Posts: 1,928 User: 12,629	Full Top 40 1 . Candle In The Wind - Elton John 2 . Barbie Girl - Aqua 3 . Believe - Cher 4 . Perfect Day - Various Artists 5 . (Everything I Do) I Do It For You - Bryan Adams 6 . Baby One More Time - Britney Spears 7 . Unchained Melody - Robson Green & Jerome Flynn 8 . I'll Be Missing You - Puff Daddy & Faith Evans 9 . I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 10 . My Heart Will Go On - Celine Dion 11 . Love Is All Around - Wet Wet Wet 12 . Never Ever - All Saints 13 . Wannabe - The Spice Girls 14 . Killing Me Softly - Fugees 15 . Tragedy - Steps 16 . Teletubbies Say Eh-Oh! - Teletubbies 17 . It's Like That - Run-DMC vs Jason Nevins 18 . No Matter What - Boyzone 19 . 2 Become 1 - The Spice Girls 20 . Gangsta's Paradise - Coolio featuring LV 21 . Torn - Natalie Imbruglia 22 . Blue (Da Ba Dee) - Eiffel 65 23 . These Are The Days Of Our Lives - Queen 24 . Spaceman - Babylon Zoo 25 . Think Twice - Celine Dion 26 . Say You'll Be There - The Spice Girls 27 . Men In Black - Will Smith 28 . Earth Song - Michael Jackson 29 . Unchained Melody - The Righteous Brothers 30 . Chocolate Salty Balls - Chef 31 . C'est La Vie - B*Witched 32 . Mambo No 5 (A Little Bit Of...) - Lou Bega 33 . Angels - Robbie Williams 34 . Goodbye - The Spice Girls 35 . Don't Speak - No Doubt 36 . Wonderwall - Oasis 37 . Spice Up Your Life - The Spice Girls 38 . Saturday Night - Whigfield 39 . 9PM (Till I Come) - ATB 40 . Tubthumping - Chumbawamba


-SCOTT- View member profile	Feb 26 2018, 04:45 PM Post #3
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 12 March 2006 Posts: 2,145 User: 194	Is this updated totals including downloads and streams?


AcerBen View member profile	Feb 26 2018, 05:21 PM Post #4
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 3,628 User: 3,429	It's quite close to Haven Forum's list from 2009 (which was based on 90s sales only) http://fatherandy2.proboards.com/thread/53995 Did OCC ever publish an official list? Or have they published multiple ones which contradict each other, perhaps due to the problem with the multiplier used in the mid-90s? I caught a bit of this show - was great to hear Bruno doing a new show! I need to try to record it next time it's on and maybe edit it into a radio show.


fiesta View member profile	Feb 27 2018, 02:53 PM Post #5
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 15 March 2006 Posts: 1,630 User: 232	QUOTE(AcerBen @ Feb 26 2018, 05:21 PM) It's quite close to Haven Forum's list from 2009 (which was based on 90s sales only) http://fatherandy2.proboards.com/thread/53995 Did OCC ever publish an official list? Or have they published multiple ones which contradict each other, perhaps due to the problem with the multiplier used in the mid-90s? I caught a bit of this show - was great to hear Bruno doing a new show! I need to try to record it next time it's on and maybe edit it into a radio show. Music Week published a top 20 IIRC, which just covered the million sellers. Hit Music Newsletter (off shoot of MW) published a top 100, which had glaringly obvious errors and omissions in it. Thanks to MFR's own research based on official sales this was the top 40 of the 90's CANDLE IN THE WIND '97 / SOMETHING IN THE WAY YOU LOOK TONIGHT Elton John UNCHAINED MELODY / WHITE CLIFFS OF DOVER Robson & Jerome LOVE IS ALL AROUND Wet Wet Wet BARBIE GIRL Aqua BELIEVE Cher PERFECT DAY Various Artists (EVERYTHING I DO) I DO IT FOR YOU Bryan Adams BABY ONE MORE TIME Britney Spears I'LL BE MISSING YOU Puff Daddy / Faith Evans I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOU Whitney Houston KILLING ME SOFTLY Fugees WANNABE Spice Girls MY HEART WILL GO ON Celine Dion GANGSTA'S PARADISE Coolio NEVER EVER All Saints THINK TWICE Celine Dion HEARTBEAT / TRAGEDY Steps TELETUBBIES SAY EH-OH Teletubbies I BELIEVE / UP ON THE ROOF Robson & Jerome SPACEMAN Babylon Zoo IT'S LIKE THAT Run DMC SATURDAY NIGHT Whigfield EARTH SONG Michael Jackson 2 BECOME 1 Spice Girls NO MATTER WHAT Boyzone WONDERWALL Oasis BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY / THESE ARE THE DAYS OF OUR LIVES Queen TORN Natalie Imbruglia BACK FOR GOOD Take That BLUE (DA BA DEE) Eiffel 65 SAY YOU'LL BE THERE Spice Girls STAY ANOTHER DAY East 17 MISSING Everything But The Girl MEN IN BLACK Will Smith UNCHAINED MELODY Righteous Brothers THE MILLENNIUM PRAYER Cliff Richard CHOCOLATE SALTY BALLS Chef C'EST LA VIE BWitched MAMBO NO. 5 Lou Bega ANGELS Robbie Williams RETURN OF THE MACK Mark Morrison This post has been edited by fiesta*: Feb 27 2018, 02:54 PM


Robbie View member profile	Feb 27 2018, 05:36 PM Post #6
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 4 April 2006 Posts: 3,442 User: 366	I've got this one that was posted at Dotmusic in 2003. Could it be the Hit Music version? BEST SELLERS OF THE 1990s 1 Something About The Way You Look Tonight/Candle In The Wind 1997 - Elton John 1997 4,864,000 2 Unchained Melody/White Cliffs Of Dover - Robson Green and Jerome Flynn 1995 1,843,000 3 Love Is All Around - Wet Wet Wet 1994 1,783,000 4 Barbie Girl - Aqua 1997 1,722,000 5 Believe - Cher 1998 1,672,000 6 Perfect Day - Various 1997 1,540,000 7 (Everything I Do) I Do It For You - Bryan Adams 1991 1,527,000 8 Baby One More Time - Britney Spears 1999 1,445,300 9 I'll Be Missing You - Puff Daddy and Faith Evans 1997 1,375,000 10 I Will Always Love You - Whitney Houston 1992 1,355,000 11 My Heart Will Go On - Celine Dion 1998 1,302,000 12 Wannabe -Spice Girls 1996 1,269,000 13 Killing Me Softly - Fugees 1996 1,268,000 14 Never Ever - All Saints 1997 1,254,000 15 Gangsta's Paradise - Coolio feat. L.V. 1995 1,245,000 16 Think Twice - Celine Dion 1994 1,234,000 17 Heartbeat / Tragedy - Steps 1998 1,148,900 18 It's Like That - Run DMC with Jason Nevins 1998 1,119,905 (includes import versions. Non-import version about 1.09 million) 19 Teletubbies Say Eh-Oh! - Teletubbies 1997 1,103,000 20 Spaceman - Babylon Zoo 1996 1,098,000 21 Saturday Night - Whigfield 1994 1,092,000 22 I Believe / Up On The Roof - Robson Green and Jerome Flynn 1995 1,090,000 23 No Matter What - Boyzone 1998 1,074,000 24 2 Become 1 - Spice Girls 1996 1,072,000 25 Earth Song - Michael Jackson 1995 1,030,000 26 Blue (Da Ba Dee) - Eiffel 65 1999 992,000 (includes import versions. Non-import version sold 956,100 to end of 1999) 27 Torn - Natalie Imbruglia 1997 970,000 28 Back For Good - Take That 1995 959,000 29 Bohemian Rhapsody/These Are The Days Of Our Lives - Queen 1991 940,000 30 Say You'll Be There - Spice Girls 1996 930,000 31 Wonderwall - Oasis 1995 920,000 32 Stay Another Day - East 17 1994 910,000 33 Men In Black - Will Smith 1997 883,000 34 Mambo No.5 - Lou Bega 1999 880,000 (includes import versions. Non-import version sold 850,200 to end of 1999) 35 Missing - Everything But The Girl 1994 870,000 36 The Millennium Prayer - Cliff Richard 1999 860,900 37 Chocolate Salty Balls (PS I Love You) - Chef 1998 850,900 38 Cest La Vie - BWitched 1998 850,500 39 Unchained Melody - Righteous Brothers 1990 840,000 40 Return Of The Mack - Mark Morrison 1996 837,000 41 Dont Speak - No Doubt 1997 834,000 42 Goodbye - Spice Girls 1998 833,500 43 Angels - Robbie Williams 1997 828,000 44 Father And Son Boyzone 1995 828,000 (Music Week 29-08-1998) 45 9PM (Till I Come) - ATB 1999 810,000 (includes import versions. Non-import version sold 791,500 to end of 1999) 46 Spice Up Your Life - Spice Girls 1997 800,000 47 Ooh Aah Just A Little Bit - Gina G 1996 790,000 48 Three Lions - Baddiel/Skinner/Lightning Seeds 1996 785,000 49 Fairground - Simply Red 1995 783,000 50 Tubthumping - Chumbawamba 1997 780,000 51 Livin La Vida Loca - Ricky Martin 1999 775,700 52 Un-break My Heart - Toni Braxton 1996 770,000 53 Children - Robert Miles 1996 770,000 54 Cotton Eye Joe - Rednex 1994 764,000 55 That Don't Impress Me Much - Shania Twain 1999 763,000 56 I'd Do Anything For Love (But I Won't Do That) - Meat Loaf 1993 761,200 57 Mysterious Girl - Peter Andre 1995 750,000 58 Baby Come Back - Pato Banton 1994 750,000 59 Together Again - Janet Jackson 1997 741,000 60 Don't Look Back In Anger - Oasis 1996 730,000 61 How Do I Live? - LeAnn Rimes 1998 713,900 62 You Are Not Alone - Michael Jackson 1995 712,000 63 MMMBop - Hanson 1997 712,000 64 Breathe - Prodigy 1996 709,000 65 D'You Know What I Mean - Oasis 1997 707,000 66 Sweet Like Chocolate - Shanks & Bigfoot 1999 706,700 67 I Swear - All 4 One 1994 700,000 68 Ghetto Supastar (That Is What You Are) - Pras Michel 1998 680,000 69 Flat Beat - Mr. Oizo 1999 678,000 70 I'll Be There For You - Rembrandts 1995 676,000 71 I Believe I Can Fly - R Kelly 1997 673,000 72 When The Going Gets Tough - Boyzone 1999 671,400 73 Nothing Compares 2 U - Sinead OConnor 1990 670,000 74 How Deep Is Your Love - Take That 1996 670,000 75 Mama/Who Do You Think You Are - Spice Girls 1997 660,000 76 Truly Madly Deeply - Savage Garden 1998 657,500 77 Too Much - Spice Girls 1997 657,000 78 Boom Boom Boom - Outhere Brothers 1995 650,000 79 Sacrifice / Healing Hands - Elton John 1990 650,000 80 Music Sounds Better With You - Stardust 1998 644,000 81 Country House - Blur 1995 640,000 82 When You're Gone - Bryan Adams feat. Melanie C 1998 635,300 83 3 Lions 98 - Baddiel/Skinner/Lightning Seeds 1998 624,000 (Music Week 15-06-2002 624,000. 619,000 in 1998) 84 Bring It All Back - S Club 7 1999 623,600 85 Viva Forever - Spice Girls 1998 623,000 86 Don't Stop (Wiggle Wiggle) - Outhere Brothers 1995 620,000 87 Genie In A Bottle - Christina Aguilera 1999 608,100 (includes import versions. Non-import version sold 595,100 to end of 1999) 88 Better Off Alone - Alice Deejay 1999 606,400 89 (I Cant Help) Falling In Love With You - UB40 1993 606,000 90 All That She Wants - Ace Of Base 1993 603,900 91 I Wanna Be The Only One - Eternal 1997 600,000 92 Perfect Moment - Martine McCutcheon 1999 592,600 93 Doctor Jones - Aqua 1998 591,000 94 Ice Ice Baby - Vanilla Ice 1990 590,000 95 Rhythm Is A Dancer - Snap 1992 582,700 96 Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom!! - Vengaboys 1999 578,900 97 Mr. Blobby - Mr. Blobby 1993 576,000 98 I Don't Want To Miss A Thing Aerosmith 1998 572,000 99 Things Can Only Get Better - D:ream 1993 570,000 100 Would I Lie To You - Charles and Eddie 1992 570,000 This post has been edited by Robbie*: Feb 27 2018, 05:43 PM


AcerBen View member profile	Feb 27 2018, 05:50 PM Post #7
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 3,628 User: 3,429	That old forum link is so interesting to read through for a geek like me This post has been edited by AcerBen: Feb 27 2018, 07:24 PM


AcerBen View member profile	Feb 27 2018, 06:19 PM Post #8
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 3,628 User: 3,429	Wish they'd sort out the problem of 94-96 once and for all! This post has been edited by AcerBen: Feb 27 2018, 07:24 PM


MFR View member profile	Feb 27 2018, 07:26 PM Post #9
BuzzJack Climber Joined: 14 June 2009 Posts: 71 User: 9,037	This is the top 100 of that chart, with the year and year-end position also indicated. It's the chart that Hit Music didn't quite do - based on the panel sales for 1990 to 1996, and using the multipliers that the chart compilers settled on, rightly or wrongly, for each year - and then DUS from 1997. So at least for 1994 to 1996 the sales are higher than OCC lists often allow for. I can respond to queries about the rest of the chart, although my time for chart chat is quite restricted these days. Looking at the Bruno Brookes list, they seem to have missed The Millennium Prayer. One plus, on the other hand, is they seem to have remembered that The Righteous Brothers version of Unchained Melody was still selling in early 1991. Many lists cut it off at the end of 1990. 1 1997 1 CANDLE IN THE WIND '97 / SOMETHING IN THE WAY YOU LOOK TONIGHT Elton John 2 1995 1 UNCHAINED MELODY / WHITE CLIFFS OF DOVER Robson & Jerome 3 1994 1 LOVE IS ALL AROUND Wet Wet Wet 4 1997 2 BARBIE GIRL Aqua 5 1998 1 BELIEVE Cher 6 1997 4 PERFECT DAY Various Artists 7 1991 1 (EVERYTHING I DO) I DO IT FOR YOU Bryan Adams 8 1999 1 BABY ONE MORE TIME Britney Spears 9 1997 3 I'LL BE MISSING YOU Puff Daddy / Faith Evans 10 1992 1 I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOU Whitney Houston 11 1996 1 KILLING ME SOFTLY Fugees 12 1996 2 WANNABE Spice Girls 13 1998 2 MY HEART WILL GO ON Celine Dion 14 1995 2 GANGSTA'S PARADISE Coolio 15 1997 13 NEVER EVER All Saints 16 1995 5 THINK TWICE Celine Dion 17 1998 12 HEARTBEAT / TRAGEDY Steps 18 1997 5 TELETUBBIES SAY EH-OH Teletubbies 19 1995 3 I BELIEVE I UP ON THE ROOF Robson & Jerome 20 1996 3 SPACEMAN Babylon Zoo 21 1998 3 IT'S LIKE THAT Run DMC 22 1994 2 SATURDAY NIGHT Whigfield 23 1995 6 EARTH SONG Michael Jackson 24 1996 10 2 BECOME 1 Spice Girls 25 1998 4 NO MATTER WHAT Boyzone 26 1995 10 WONDERWALL Oasis 27 1991 2 BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY / THESE ARE THE DAYS OF OUR LIVES Queen 28 1997 8 TORN Natalie Imbruglia 29 1995 4 BACK FOR GOOD Take That 30 1999 2 BLUE (DA BA DEE) Eiffel 65 31 1996 4 SAY YOU'LL BE THERE Spice Girls 32 1994 3 STAY ANOTHER DAY East 17 33 1995 9 MISSING Everything But The Girl 34 1997 6 MEN IN BLACK Will Smith 35 1990 1 UNCHAINED MELODY Righteous Brothers 36 1999 3 THE MILLENNIUM PRAYER Cliff Richard 37 1998 7 CHOCOLATE SALTY BALLS Chef 38 1998 5 C'EST LA VIE BWitched 39 1999 4 MAMBO NO. 5 Lou Bega 40 1998 25 ANGELS Robbie Williams 41 1996 5 RETURN OF THE MACK Mark Morrison 42 1997 7 DON'T SPEAK No Doubt 43 1998 8 GOODBYE Spice Girls 44 1995 13 FATHER AND SON Boyzone 45 1997 10 SPICE UP YOUR LIFE Spice Girls 46 1999 5 9PM TIL I COME ATB 47 1996 6 OOH AAH...JUST A LITTLE BIT Gina G 48 1996 7 THREE LIONS Baddiel / Skinner / Lightning Seeds 49 1995 7 FAIRGROUND Simply Red 50 1997 9 TUBTHUMPING Chumbawamba 51 1996 13 UN-BREAK MY HEART Toni Braxton 52 1999 6 LIVIN' LA VIDA LOCA Ricky Martin 53 1996 8 CHILDREN Robert Miles 54 1995 16 COTTON EYE JOE Rednex 55 1999 7 THAT DON'T IMPRESS ME MUCH Shania Twain 56 1996 11 DON'T LOOK BACK IN ANGER Oasis 57 1993 1 I'D DO ANYTHING FOR LOVE (BUT I WON'T DO THAT) Meat Loaf 58 1996 9 MYSTERIOUS GIRL Peter Andre 59 1994 4 BABY COME BACK Pato Banton 60 1998 32 TOGETHER AGAIN Janet Jackson 61 1996 14 BREATHE Prodigy 62 1995 8 YOU ARE NOT ALONE Michael Jackson 63 1997 11 MMMBOP Hanson 64 1998 6 HOW DO I LIVE LeAnn Rimes 65 1997 12 D'YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN Oasis 66 1999 8 SWEET LIKE CHOCOLATE Shanks & Bigfoot 67 1995 22 I'LL BE THERE FOR YOU Rembrandts 68 1994 5 I SWEAR All-4-One 69 1998 9 GHETTO SUPASTAR Pras Michel 70 1999 9 FLAT BEAT Mr Oizo 71 1997 14 I BELIEVE I CAN FLY R Kelly 72 1990 2 NOTHING COMPARES 2 U Sinead O'Connor 73 1999 10 WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH Boyzone 74 1996 12 HOW DEEP IS YOUR LOVE Take That 75 1990 4 ICE ICE BABY Vanilla Ice 76 1997 15 MAMA I WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE Spice Girls 77 1997 22 TOO MUCH Spice Girls 78 1995 11 BOOM BOOM BOOM Outhere Brothers 79 1998 11 MUSIC SOUNDS BETTER WITH YOU Stardust 80 1990 3 SACRIFICE I HEALING HANDS Elton John 81 1998 10 TRULY MADLY DEEPLY Savage Garden 82 1995 12 COUNTRY HOUSE Blur 83 1998 45 WHEN YOU'RE GONE Bryan Adams & Melanie C 84 1998 13 VIVA FOREVER Spice Girls 85 1999 11 BRING IT ALL BACK S Club 7 86 1998 14 THREE LIONS '98 Baddiel I Skinner / Lightning Seeds 87 1995 14 DON'T STOP (WIGGLE WIGGLE) Outhere Brothers 88 1993 2 I CAN'T HELP FALLING IN LOVE UB40 89 1996 15 FIRESTARTER Prodigy 90 1999 12 BETTER OFF ALONE Alice Deejay 91 1993 3 ALL THAT SHE WANTS Ace Of Base 92 1997 16 I WANNA BE THE ONLY ONE Eternal I Be Be Winans 93 1999 13 GENIE IN A BOTTLE Christina Aguilera 94 1994 67 WHATEVER Oasis 95 1999 14 PERFECT MOMENT Martine McCutcheon 96 1998 15 DOCTOR JONES Aqua 97 1992 2 RHYTHM IS A DANCER Snap! 98 1999 15 BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM Vengaboys 99 1993 6 MR BLOBBY Mr Blobby 100 1998 17 I DON'T WANT TO MISS A THING Aerosmith This post has been edited by MFR*: Feb 27 2018, 07:27 PM


AcerBen View member profile	Feb 27 2018, 07:42 PM Post #10
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 3,628 User: 3,429	What I don't understand is if they have the DUS figures from 94-96, why don't they know how many stores reported into those figures? If they do, then they ought to recalculate the sales to some level of accuracy. It must just be that they don't care enough to do it.


MFR View member profile	Feb 27 2018, 11:22 PM Post #11
BuzzJack Climber Joined: 14 June 2009 Posts: 71 User: 9,037	I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about this. OCC will have historical records about how many shops were in the sample each week from when they took over from Gallup in 1994. Gallup historical data probably not. The difference between the sales total from 1994 to 1996 under the two methods is this - 1. In the panel sales method sales were reported to the industry on the basis of the numbers sold in a permanent 250 shop universe. The actual number of shops reporting each week was irrelevant. It's just that it changed from week to week and so to have a consistent picture sales reports were based on a standard of 250 shops and these were the 'panel sales'. People outside the industry (us, for example) wanted to know what the total sale was, not just what a standard panel sold. So they multiplied the panel sales by a figure called the multiplier which was reckoned to give an answer approximately equal to the total sold in the whole market. But it was approximate. Some shops not sampled didn't sell as many as similar shops that were on the panel. But you don't know that if you haven't sampled the data. There was a lot of '10 of these shops sold x copies in our sample, so another 10 shops not in the sample would also sell x of the same record'. This can work if all 20 shops were part of the same chain and of similar size, and maybe in the same geographical area. But then there were independent shops. They were more likely to be individual and a shop like this not on the panel was less likely to be a direct match for another independent shop that was. Also independent shops that were on a register of shops, used to determine the market size, might have gone out of business without the chart compilers knowing, if they didn't used it. Then there were supermarkets, of which none were on the chart panel until 1995, so how to estimate what they had sold? Would 10 supermarkets sell the same as 10 Woolworths, or 10 HMVs, or 10 independent shops? Something would have been sold. but without having any in the sample, how could the compilers be sure how many? Mail order companies, motorway service stations and market stalls were types of music retailers that were never in the sample. But all could be taken account by sampling 1,000 shops that were in major chains plus some indies and multiplying the figures up. Usually by too much. 2. The DUS method works differently. If you sampled half the large HMVs you could probably double the sale you got to come up with a figure for both halves. But it told them nothing about Woolworths sales. Of course hey sampled data from some Woolworths for that. And other chains similarly. These were all 'defined' because they occurred somewhere in the sample, hence 'Defined Universe Sales'. Independent shops were either in or out. The ones that were not in were therefore assumed to have sold nothing because they couldn't be matched to something that was in. The same was true for mail order companies, motorway service stations, market stalls etc. Record companies knew what they had sold to such places and could adjust the DUS upwards to take account of the percentage of stock sold to these places, if they wanted to. But the key thing with DUS is they let the indutrsy know what was 'defined' and reported only what was estimated to have been sold in that. So the figures in 1 were higher than in 2 because 1 was an estimate of sales in all shops, but 2 was an estimate only for the parts you could estimate accurately for, and leaving out the totally unknown parts that might not be trading now anyway. At least in a digital age, and with streaming, everything is in, unless it's not known, in which case it's still out. But the percentage covered must be virtually 100% now.


AcerBen View member profile	Feb 28 2018, 10:36 AM Post #12
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 3,628 User: 3,429	Thanks, I think I get what you're saying there. So the only other option was to attempt to work out a more realistic multiplier for the panel sales for that period. That wouldn't be easy - especially as some people were saying in the old Haven thread that it probably should have been adjusted several times during 1995. Perhaps if they worked with labels on some of the biggest records for the period - for instance the mentioned example of the Outhere Brothers "Boom Boom Boom". Maybe some labels will be able to confirm exactly how many physical copies were shipped, and the more of that data you could collect the easier it would be to work out what the multiplier should've been. Or maybe all the figures would contradict each other and it'd be impossible! I suppose it would take a lot of time and effort by OCC. It really annoys me though as a charg geek, especially as 94-96 is pretty much my personal golden era for pop!


Robbie View member profile	Feb 28 2018, 01:49 PM Post #13
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 4 April 2006 Posts: 3,442 User: 366	QUOTE(AcerBen @ Feb 28 2018, 10:36 AM) Thanks, I think I get what you're saying there. So the only other option was to attempt to work out a more realistic multiplier for the panel sales for that period. That wouldn't be easy - especially as some people were saying in the old Haven thread that it probably should have been adjusted several times during 1995. Perhaps if they worked with labels on some of the biggest records for the period - for instance the mentioned example of the Outhere Brothers "Boom Boom Boom". Maybe some labels will be able to confirm exactly how many physical copies were shipped, and the more of that data you could collect the easier it would be to work out what the multiplier should've been. Or maybe all the figures would contradict each other and it'd be impossible! I suppose it would take a lot of time and effort by OCC. It really annoys me though as a charg geek, especially as 94-96 is pretty much my personal golden era for pop! I don't know why the OCC didn't iron out these problems sooner than they did. I understand that they weren't sampling anywhere near 100% in 1994 and 1995 (but were moving close to 100% by mid 1996) but they could have abandoned the chart panel method sooner without compromising the calculation for total market sales. Was it 'Baby Come Back' by Pato Banton that was calculated under the chart panel method to have sold much more copies that were actually shipped by the record company? Incidentally the sample of stores is now over 15,000 per week and the Singles and Album charts in Music Week now carry the following: The Official UK Singles & Albums Charts are compiled by the Official Charts Company, based on a sample of more than 15,000 physical and digital outlets. They count actual sales and audio streams from last Friday to Thursday, based on sales of downloads, CDs, vinyl and other physical formats and weighted audio streams (for albums it reads: and audio streams weighted using SEA2 methodology). Previously the sample was a mere 4,000 stores until just a few years ago. I wonder what % of the 15,000 outlets are streaming sites? For Singles most audio streams, in fact most sales, are from Spotify and Amazon so the OCC sample a lot of stores for very little return in terms of sales data.


AcerBen View member profile	Feb 28 2018, 05:09 PM Post #14
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 3,628 User: 3,429	QUOTE There are now 14,727 physical shops in the UK which sell records, CDs, DVDs and Blu-ray, up almost 50% on last year, according to research by the Entertainment Retailers Association (ERA). The number of stores selling music and video has more than doubled since 2009. https://thevinylfactory.com/news/record-sho...k-figures-2016/ So it must be a while now since it was as low as 4,000. But that's an amazing increase isn't it? It was Outhere Brothers "Boom Boom Boom" that supposedly sold more than it shipped - but that's only based on an off-the-cuff remark quoted in Music Week. We don't even know if it's true. Does a record label have to prove they have shipped x amount before BPI can certify? I might do some digging on records that only just crept over the 200/400/600k sales lines (according to the original figures) in 94-96 and see whether they were certified or not. Maybe if CIN said they'd sold that many that was enough proof though. I wonder. This post has been edited by AcerBen: Feb 28 2018, 05:13 PM


AcerBen View member profile	Feb 28 2018, 05:16 PM Post #15
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 3,628 User: 3,429	By the way, how do we know that they were already close to 100% by mid-96? What's that based on?


Robbie View member profile	Feb 28 2018, 05:39 PM Post #16
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 4 April 2006 Posts: 3,442 User: 366	QUOTE(AcerBen @ Feb 28 2018, 05:09 PM) https://thevinylfactory.com/news/record-sho...k-figures-2016/ So it must be a while now since it was as low as 4,000. But that's an amazing increase isn't it? It was Outhere Brothers "Boom Boom Boom" that supposedly sold more than it shipped - but that's only based on an off-the-cuff remark quoted in Music Week. We don't even know if it's true. Does a record label have to prove they have shipped x amount before BPI can certify? I might do some digging on records that only just crept over the 200/400/600k sales lines (according to the original figures) in 94-96 and see whether they were certified or not. Maybe if CIN said they'd sold that many that was enough proof though. I wonder. The 4,000 sample size is mentioned as far back as the first PDF version Music Week which was 6 October 2007 and it probably goes back a lot longer than that but all my pre-October 2007 paper copies of the magazine aren't to hand. The 4,000 figure only changed to 15,000 in January 2016. I've got a copy of the BARD (now ERA) Yearbook 2009 and the amount of retailers selling music in 2008 was 5,187 which was up from 5,026 in 2007 but the yearbook explains that the increase was largely down to Blockbusters starting to sell CDs in all their stores. The amount of music retailers in 2005 had been 5,621. It's a big leap to 15,000 so I assume it either includes retailers who stock a handful of CD titles or perhaps some of them are retailers who sell games or DVDs only? The certification process was that the label would self-certify sales and the BPI took them on their word. I used to think it was properly audited (i.e. there had to be proof provided) but MFR once posted that it was largely down to trust and in fact as the 2000s progressed most labels didn't even bother to apply for certification awards which is why the automatic certification scheme was launched. This post has been edited by Robbie: Feb 28 2018, 05:42 PM


MFR View member profile	Feb 28 2018, 08:30 PM Post #17
BuzzJack Climber Joined: 14 June 2009 Posts: 71 User: 9,037	In hindsight, it seems that it was a mistake for OCC and Millward Brown to increase the multipliers in 1994, when for singles it was increased from 15, which Gallup had used from the start of 1992 onwards and which OCC began with, to 17. This occurred in August following a survey by Millward Brown, but the whole year was re-cast at the higher multipliers, It looked OK in late 1994 and early 1995 but fell away mysteriously from quite early (March? April?) in 1995. From this point on I would think most singles would appear to have sold more at retail than the number of copies shipped. This phenomenon was already there in 1994-1995 (Think Twice only certified single platinum, but 'selling 1,235,000 at retail). But it was the 2 Outhere Brothers number 1s that highlighted it, because an article in Music Week in December 1995 about dance music successes in the singles chart listed shipment figures supplied by the record company people interviewed. Both those Outhere Brothers singles had retail estimates above 600,000, but a WEA person gave their shipped figures as below 600,000 in both cases, which is why they only got certified gold. Worse, at retail it was the second hit that sold more by a reasonable margin, but the first one shipped more by a reasonable margin. It seemed to show the multiplier was too high early in the year and way too high later on. Amongst the sales given, if I remember correctly,, Here Comes Th Hotstepper by Ini Kamoze, from the very start of the year and released in late 1994, did ship more than retail sold, and for Don't Give Me Your Life by Alex Party the two figures were about level, but the other later ones had retail estimates above the shipped figures. In fact the total number of singles sold at retail in 1995 was 5% higher than the 'trade deliveries' figure for 1995 that was compiled by the BPI. Of course, a single sold in 1995 might have been shipped in 1994, but the same applies at the other end of the year. During 1997 to 2001, the total sales in DUS terms were in the 85% to 90% range compared to deliveries in each year, except 1998, when it was about 92% I think. 1998 had a 53rd sales week at retail, which can partly account for the higher percentage that year. So in mid-1995 when supermarkets were about to be added to the defined universe, the multiplier was 17. At the start of October when they were added - presumably they test-sampled for a while before officially adding them to the chart sample - the multiplier was reduced to 16, and then became 15 from the start of 1996. That seems telling. Nevertheless, they later reinstated 17 for the whole of 1995 when quoting figures, although Hit Music had used 16 in its year-end data at the time. The 99% point was reached at the start of the fourth quarter of 1996, so only 6 months before DUS reporting began. The number of shops in the defined universe jumped from under 3,500 to just over 3,900 that week. Yes, certifications were based on trust. It was mostly the same dozen or so executives that would have been signing off the majority of the awards anyway in the letters or emails to the BPI, so there was probably little reason to disbelieve. Occasionally an award looked wrong or dubious, but certifications were seen as a good promotional tool in those days. If anyone had clearly been abusing the BPI's trust I expect they would have looked into it, but I'd say that by and large everyone played by the rules. You can't take any award and use it to prove anything Alan Jones used to say. But look at whole years and what individual record companies did and patterns emerge. Sony and BMG were the worst certifiers, but had good periods and less good periods. Virgin, EMI, A&M, London, indeed most of Polygram as was, and WEA were good to excellent. Some record companies sometimes seemed to ignore silver for singles, as if perhaps not important enough (Sony particularly), or didn't certify singles silver if the album was certified already (Sony 1987-1992). Perhaps not surprisingly companies that tended to wait until they had several records to certify missed the odd one or two - maybe this was Sony and BMG's true failing in this area, rather than indifference. Years ago I compared certifications with retail estimates for the early DUS years. Late summer and then the Christmas rush followed perhaps by time off at home for key executives were perhaps the times of year that apparently qualified singles were least likely to get certified. If a single could get to 250,000 - the old level for silver - its chances seem to go up a notch. Maybe this was because they were above 200,000 for longer while still active rather than because someone was stuck in the past. Strangely, singles above 375,000 also suffered. Waiting for a gold certification that was never reached may have been the reason. In terms of years, before auto-certification there were many silver singles from 1994 to 1996 above 400,000 and gold singles above 600,000. Sometimes quite considerably. Over the course of a year the same pattern could emerge. For 1994 to 1996, and also with 1990 and 1991 the appearance is of the multiplier being too high. At one point I thought that rather than decide on a multiplier for a particular year and a different one for the next year, it might have been better to stick with one for a longer period as Gallup had. Eventually, I decided that perhaps the question to ask for 1994 to 1996 is "what would the DUS figure have been if the 99% point had already been reached?". When DUS reporting began the effective multiplier, as it became obsolete was around 15.7, so I would suggest somewhere around that figure would be reasonable for 1994 to 1996 on the basis that 15 was starting to look a little low when Gallup's contract ended. But it would vary from record to record, or certainly from genre to genre.


AcerBen View member profile	Feb 28 2018, 09:01 PM Post #18
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 3,628 User: 3,429	I do wonder though if it's possible that the figures quoted in that Music Week article for the Outhere Brothers singles were wrong. It's perfectly possible the person they asked made a mistake. It seems too far out to me, and for them to have got the two singles the wrong way round too? BBB had 4 weeks at #1 compared to 1 week for DS, and I'm sure singles sales increased as 1995 went on. Zobbel's points system chart for '95 also has Boom Boom Boom higher than Don't Stop. Their chart runs are quite similar though so can't be sure. I'm prepared to believe 94-96 original sales were too high, but I wonder if too much emphasis is placed on that MW article.


MFR View member profile	Feb 28 2018, 11:29 PM Post #19
BuzzJack Climber Joined: 14 June 2009 Posts: 71 User: 9,037	I don't think I have the Music Week with that article any more. It was either December 9th or 16th 1995. I can't remember the name of the WEA person quoted either, but he was probably the executive on the WEA dance music imprint that the Outhere Brothers were on. The figures given were 560,000 for Don't Stop and 525,000 for Boom Boom Boom. I may be wrong about the executive's exact words about Boom Boom Boom, but it was something very much like "although it didn't sell quite as many as its predecessor many people, including myself, preferred it". So there was no doubt that Music Week had got the two figures the right way round. As I said the retail total for 1995 was 105% of the deliveries. Between 1997 and 2001 the highest figure was about 92% in 1998, when the chart year was 6 days longer than the deliveries year. All the other years were below 90%.


JCM20 View member profile	Mar 1 2018, 12:43 PM Post #20
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 1 January 2016 Posts: 907 User: 22,819	Perfect Day outsold Everything I Do?