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 An alternate PM? |
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 30th December 2017, 06:58 AM
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#41
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364 
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Dec 29 2017, 09:08 PM)  She's literally a fucking fascist. I would got that far. Yes, she's outspoken, but IMO she represent the views of more than just the extreme-right. She certainly doesn't tick all the fascist boxes, by any means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism |
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30th December 2017, 08:51 AM
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#42
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 #38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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I stood in the queue behind Katie Hopkins at the Met Office canteen in July 2007 and she LOOKED RIGHT THROUGH ME, I was starstruck because she had been a big star of the Apprentice at the time. If I'd have known she would turn out to be such a hateful figure I would have thrown some hot soup at her.
QUOTE(Michael Bubré @ Dec 14 2017, 01:17 AM) Jonathan Pie please. x He's a character. Played by Tom Walker! |
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30th December 2017, 09:31 AM
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#43
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 I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Dec 30 2017, 06:58 AM) I would got that far. Yes, she's outspoken, but IMO she represent the views of more than just the extreme-right. She certainly doesn't tick all the fascist boxes, by any means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism Hang on, so you'll readily accept that she shows at least some aspects of being a fascist, and yet you'd have her as PM. That's... interesting. |
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30th December 2017, 10:08 AM
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#44
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Dec 30 2017, 09:31 AM) Hang on, so you'll readily accept that she shows at least some aspects of being a fascist, and yet you'd have her as PM. That's... interesting. You do realise this thread isn't entirely serious, right?  As for 'ticking fascist boxes', some of the current MP's would qualify on that score, too. |
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30th December 2017, 10:49 AM
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#45
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Dec 30 2017, 10:08 AM) You do realise this thread isn't entirely serious, right? As for 'ticking fascist boxes', some of the current MP's would qualify on that score, too. If it's not entirely serious then you may as well nominate Jim Davidson for all the difference it will make. Please expand on which current MPs 'tick fascist boxes', because if that's the case I wouldn't want them to be PM either. |
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30th December 2017, 12:42 PM
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#46
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Dec 30 2017, 10:49 AM) If it's not entirely serious then you may as well nominate Jim Davidson for all the difference it will make. Please expand on which current MPs 'tick fascist boxes', because if that's the case I wouldn't want them to be PM either. Well, 'Candlelit Snow' seems to be somewhat of that opinion about Theresa May - and she *is* the PM. |
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30th December 2017, 01:29 PM
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#47
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Dec 30 2017, 12:42 PM) Well, 'Candlelit Snow' seems to be somewhat of that opinion about Theresa May - and she *is* the PM. Skirting the question - you implied that you believe some MPs have fascist tendencies. Which? |
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30th December 2017, 03:04 PM
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#48
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Dec 30 2017, 01:29 PM) Skirting the question - you implied that you believe some MPs have fascist tendencies. Which? How about Jacob Rees-Mogg? |
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30th December 2017, 04:44 PM
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#49
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Dec 30 2017, 03:04 PM) How about Jacob Rees-Mogg? You may be shocked to know I don't want Jacob Rees-Mogg to be PM. |
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2nd January 2018, 10:43 AM
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#50
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Dec 30 2017, 04:44 PM) You may be shocked to know I don't want Jacob Rees-Mogg to be PM. From which I take it you agree he has some fascist tendencies? |
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2nd January 2018, 04:14 PM
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#51
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 2 2018, 10:43 AM) From which I take it you agree he has some fascist tendencies? I don't know if I'd go that far, but then again he did back an actual fascist for President so maybe. Either way, I'm confident that I wouldn't want anyone, MP or not, to be PM if they had as you put it fascist tendencies. It seems you can't say the same. |
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3rd January 2018, 06:58 AM
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#52
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Jan 2 2018, 04:14 PM) I don't know if I'd go that far, but then again he did back an actual fascist for President so maybe. Either way, I'm confident that I wouldn't want anyone, MP or not, to be PM if they had as you put it fascist tendencies. It seems you can't say the same. The more totalitarian aspects of fascism, e.g. persecuting & scapegoating of opponents, and militarism, I find abhorrent, but the social conservatism less so. [NB 'less abhorrent' is just a relative term, in case anyone was thinking of misinterpreting it] This post has been edited by vidcapper: 3rd January 2018, 08:03 AM |
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4th January 2018, 10:17 AM
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#53
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 3 2018, 06:58 AM) The more totalitarian aspects of fascism, e.g. persecuting & scapegoating of opponents, and militarism, I find abhorrent, but the social conservatism less so. [NB 'less abhorrent' is just a relative term, in case anyone was thinking of misinterpreting it] Just in case - what aspects of the social conservatism? |
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4th January 2018, 10:27 AM
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#54
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Jan 4 2018, 10:17 AM) Just in case - what aspects of the social conservatism? Tougher punishments of criminals (as long as due process is observed), preservation of traditions, patriotism - to name three. This post has been edited by vidcapper: 4th January 2018, 10:29 AM |
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4th January 2018, 01:23 PM
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#55
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Say that hiss with your chest, and...
Joined: 24 May 2016
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Jan 2 2018, 04:14 PM) I don't know if I'd go that far, but then again he did back an actual fascist for President so maybe. If you are referring to Donald Trump, do you think he has all of the qualities of a fascist or just most of them? This post has been edited by mdf: 4th January 2018, 01:24 PM |
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4th January 2018, 02:59 PM
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#56
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 4 2018, 10:27 AM) Tougher punishments of criminals (as long as due process is observed), preservation of traditions, patriotism - to name three. the latter two you and anyone else is perfectly free to carry out with no complaint from anyone - providing you don't force anyone else to have to do what you feel personally is right for you. The former is entirely dependant on what you call criminals, and totally on the "crime". |
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4th January 2018, 04:16 PM
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#57
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jan 4 2018, 02:59 PM) The former is entirely dependant on what you call criminals, and totally on the "crime". The usual definition seems reasonable : someone who has been found guilty of a crime in a court of law. As for the second part, perhaps you could explain why you put crime in quotes? This post has been edited by vidcapper: 4th January 2018, 04:16 PM |
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4th January 2018, 06:38 PM
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#58
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,851 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 4 2018, 04:16 PM) The usual definition seems reasonable : someone who has been found guilty of a crime in a court of law. As for the second part, perhaps you could explain why you put crime in quotes? Because sentencing someone to 6 months (ridiculous example, but persistent offenders may not have cash) for not paying a TV licence is in my eyes much less of a crime than people who avoid paying tax in millions and legally get away with it. That includes members of the Tory cabinet. Perhaps you can come up with some moral justification why someone who nicks a tin of beans deserves a harsh sentence, while rich powerful people get nothing for far worse. So, unless you are talking on a case by case scenario your comment is meaningless. At the very least, given the cost of keeping someone in prison to the taxpayer and the increased cost it would involve being harsher (like the US is and it costs a fortune, and helps no-one) it makes no sense to give harsher sentences for minor crimes. |
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5th January 2018, 06:59 AM
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#59
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jan 4 2018, 06:38 PM) Because sentencing someone to 6 months (ridiculous example, but persistent offenders may not have cash) for not paying a TV licence is in my eyes much less of a crime than people who avoid paying tax in millions and legally get away with it. That includes members of the Tory cabinet. Perhaps you can come up with some moral justification why someone who nicks a tin of beans deserves a harsh sentence, while rich powerful people get nothing for far worse. So, unless you are talking on a case by case scenario your comment is meaningless. At the very least, given the cost of keeping someone in prison to the taxpayer and the increased cost it would involve being harsher (like the US is and it costs a fortune, and helps no-one) it makes no sense to give harsher sentences for minor crimes. Once again I've been forced into the invidious position of having to defend the Tories.  Technically, people are not jailed for not buying a TV licence, but only for refusing to pay the fine for not doing so. As for tax, there is a very real difference legally, between avoidance (legal), and evasion (illegal). Unfortunately most stashing away of income falls into the former category so there's nothing that can be done about it, short of changing the law - and guess who's in charge of changing the law...  Personally, I'd love to see all forms of evasion/avoidance made illegal, but even then you run into strawman arguments like 'should you be charged with *not buying a pack of of cigs*' as you are technically avoiding tax by refusing to.  On the subject of sentencing, I agree that custodial terms should be avoided for victimless and/or non-violent crimes. |
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5th January 2018, 09:39 AM
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#60
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I'm so lonely, I paid a hobo to spoon with me
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 12,908 User: 10,596
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 4 2018, 10:27 AM) Tougher punishments of criminals (as long as due process is observed), preservation of traditions, patriotism - to name three. Famously, fascist regimes are able to apply these three things in moderation very successfully. |
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