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 Formerly Forthcoming Tory leadership race |
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 19th June 2019, 01:04 AM
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#321
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,419 User: 12,929                 |
If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy... and the further away we get from the vote without there being a solution by which to implement it, the more correct that becomes. If you are to pick one democratic decision as the hill to die on, why not anything else. The interests of the country must always be kept in mind. Sometimes I wish we were a technocracy, because this then wouldn't happen.
The candidates for Prime Minister are all (bar Stewart) apparently under the delusion that they can go back and renegotiate with the EU, when the EU have said that that's impossible. No Deal was certainly not what was voted for, so going for that is less democratic than stopping Brexit altogether. As much as I don't want it to be, because of how problematic referendums are, the only democratic way forward is another one. QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 18 2019, 10:15 PM)  The BBC have done some fact-checking on some of the claims made in tonight's debate. They have selected one inaccurate statement per candidate. Some of them are blatant untruths (making the candidate either a liar or incompetent) while others are not quite as serious. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48685344 Love that. Boris: We can invoke Article 24 and it will be fine. BBC: Not applicable to this situation because we won't have a trade agreement even agreed upon in place. Hunt: A quarter of children are unable to read! BBC: Just because they don't pass our test doesn't mean they're illiterate. Stewart: The target of 2050 for zero-carbon is the most ambitious for top countries! BBC: Well ACKTUALLY, depending on your definition of top countries, some countries have set their targets before that. The environment is in reality the most important issue there is but I can't imagine that does anything other than make Stewart look the best of them. Relative of course disclaimer. |
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19th June 2019, 06:58 AM
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#322
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,826 User: 17,376 
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 18 2019, 10:15 PM) Except that would be a kick in the teeth to all those like myself who vote LEAVE. Based on lies told by Boris Johnson, the man you still trust despite his ongoing lies. I mean talk about naive! Chris, when the economy tanks, people on benefits and low wages are going to suffer worse than anyone. Just like they have over the last 10 years, only worse. I don't understand how you can place your trust in liars like that - note NONE of them talked about immigration because they know that any future deals will have immigration written into the deals for EVERY COUNTRY WITH ANY POLITICAL POWER OVER US. And we'll be desperate forced to take shit deals, not like now, part of a strong bloc with negotiating power over less strong countries and equal to the USA and China. So, the cornerstone of Brexit, not even mentioned cos they are desperate not to kill themselves off having promised The Earth and delivered NOTHING. The ones who lied the most are the ones who wont vote for the deal that has been agreed. That's Johnson. He's a liar, don't believe a word he says, he won't deliver a Hard Brexit in October cos he's a liar and he can't deliver it. He just wants to be Prime Minister. Always has. |
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19th June 2019, 07:04 AM
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#323
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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So who will leave the race today then? I'd guess at Javid and then tomorrow is anyone's guess.
Oh there are two votes tomorrow, 12pm and 5pm so we'll know the final two by tomorrow evening. This post has been edited by Common Sense: 19th June 2019, 07:06 AM |
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19th June 2019, 07:07 AM
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#324
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,826 User: 17,376
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we had a referendum in 1975, why do we need another one? The people spoke.
"yes but no but some are dead and circumstances have changed, it wasnt what the dead people voted for, trust me I know, yes but no but" OK, let's have another referendum. we had a referendum in 2016, why do we need another one? The people spoke. "yes but no but some are dead and circumstances have changed, it wasnt what the dead people voted for, yes but no but" OK, let's have another referendum. No difference. It's called democracy, the right to change your mind, just like Johnson and Farage have, over and over again when it suits them. |
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19th June 2019, 08:46 AM
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#325
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 Break the tension
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 18 2019, 10:38 PM) Democracy my dear Watson... "If a democracy cannot change its mind, then it ceases to be a democracy" - David Davis (former Brexit Secretary), 2012 |
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19th June 2019, 03:04 PM
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#326
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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There was uproar amongst Tory MP's in the Commons earlier when the SNP's Ian Blackford called Boris a "racist" during PMQ's. Bercow just told him to weigh his words
This post has been edited by Common Sense: 19th June 2019, 03:05 PM |
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19th June 2019, 03:44 PM
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#327
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,602 User: 177
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I love it when people are all ‘but democracy!!!!1!2!!2’ when they can’t think of a proper reason to leave.
Say it’s my birthday next week and I invite four friends out for a meal. We have the choice of restaurant A and restaurant B. We have a democratic vote and 3 of us pick restaurant A over 2 for B so we decide we’ll go to restaurant A. Closer to the date, we discover that’s restaurant A has been serving actual dog shit as meals. Now aware of the facts and not wanting to eat dog shit, are we now not allowed to change our minds and go to the good restaurant? Do we have to eat dog shit because we voted for it first and we must respect that vote? Or does democracy allow us to change our minds? Basically, the UK is going to be having dog shit for dinner for some time. |
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19th June 2019, 04:08 PM
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#328
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
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Just one leaves tonight. There's no minimum threshold to satisfy from what Sky News are saying, so just the one with the lowest vote to leave. Then another out around 1pm tomorrow and the last about 6pm. So we'll know the final two going to the country early tomorrow evening. If the other one dropped out, as some of the party hierarchy would like, as Leadsom did in 2016, Boris could be PM by Friday morning. Some would like to see him get on with the job straight away rather than waiting 5 weeks for it to go to the full membership. Others think they need a say as they haven't had one since Cameron was elected in 2015.
Can't see past Javid leaving today. This post has been edited by Common Sense: 19th June 2019, 04:17 PM |
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19th June 2019, 05:06 PM
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#329
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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Stewart gone.
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19th June 2019, 05:14 PM
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#330
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 23 June 2018
Posts: 9,511 User: 73,240
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Boris Johnson - 143
Jeremy Hunt - 54 Michael Gove - 51 Sajid Javid - 38 Rory Stewart - 27 |
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19th June 2019, 05:16 PM
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#331
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 04:04 PM) There was uproar amongst Tory MP's in the Commons earlier when the SNP's Ian Blackford called Boris a "racist" during PMQ's. Bercow just told him to weigh his words No, Bercow asked him to withdraw and instead, like the hero he is, he doubled down and provided receipts. |
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19th June 2019, 05:21 PM
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#332
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,671 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 05:08 PM) Just one leaves tonight. There's no minimum threshold to satisfy from what Sky News are saying, so just the one with the lowest vote to leave. Then another out around 1pm tomorrow and the last about 6pm. So we'll know the final two going to the country early tomorrow evening. If the other one dropped out, as some of the party hierarchy would like, as Leadsom did in 2016, Boris could be PM by Friday morning. Some would like to see him get on with the job straight away rather than waiting 5 weeks for it to go to the full membership. Others think they need a say as they haven't had one since Cameron was elected in 2015. Can't see past Javid leaving today. The country? I think you mean about 120,000 mostly old, mostly male and overwhelmingly white people. The people who voted in large numbers against their own party last month. People who are prepared to see the break-up of their country and serious economic damage for some ideological aim they cannot defend. |
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19th June 2019, 06:00 PM
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#333
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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Here's a question for all you Boris haters. If he's so bad then why did May appoint him Foreign Secretary?
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19th June 2019, 06:08 PM
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#334
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,602 User: 177
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 07:00 PM) Here's a question for all you Boris haters. If he's so bad then why did May appoint him Foreign Secretary? Omg did you say that with a straight face? |
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19th June 2019, 06:09 PM
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#335
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Jun 19 2019, 07:08 PM) Omg did you say that with a straight face? I'm not asking what sort of FS he was but why did she appoint him in the first place if he's such a waste of space as most of you here and on other forums claim? |
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19th June 2019, 06:10 PM
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#336
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,602 User: 177
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 07:09 PM) I'm not asking what sort of FS he was but why did she appoint him in the first place if he's such a waste of space as most of you here and on other forums claim? You think May had any sensible judgement at all??? |
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19th June 2019, 06:53 PM
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#337
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
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Well Rory Stewart did very well and I’ll be following his career with interest as to how he know progresses and if he was as refreshingly honest as I hope he is. Very eloquent and reasonable politician.
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19th June 2019, 06:54 PM
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#338
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Break the tension
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 88,965 User: 51
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Really quite saddened about Rory Stewart, he was easily the best (well, least bad/least deranged) option.
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19th June 2019, 07:47 PM
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#339
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,826 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 07:09 PM) I'm not asking what sort of FS he was but why did she appoint him in the first place if he's such a waste of space as most of you here and on other forums claim? Cos he was the architect of the Brexit result and May, as a Remainer, had to have those that had visibly advocated Brexit in all the key posts to avoid being criticised for not respecting the result. That they were useless was neither here nor there, as we saw when they all quit the Cabinet and sat grumbling and stabbing May in the back, and bringing down the Brexit deal everyone claims they wanted in the first place. She tolerated his uselessness until he couldn't bear having to toe the party line if he wasn't in charge and just threw his toys out the pram, while causing a UK citizen to end up in prison and to go on hunger strike as a result. He took credit for someone else's idea as Mayor, wasted tens of millions on projects that were supposed to cost the taxpayer nothing, and never happened anyway cos they were shit ideas, and gave his rich pals planning permission 106 contribution-free deals that others had to pay. Oh and he got to lord it up at the Olympics on the back of other people's work. |
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19th June 2019, 07:48 PM
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#340
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,826 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jun 19 2019, 07:54 PM) Really quite saddened about Rory Stewart, he was easily the best (well, least bad/least deranged) option. Yes, inevitable he would be dropped. His supporters will be of the saner kind, so it will be interesting to see which of the remaining extremists they consider the least deranged..... Tough choice! I'm guessing Gove. Hunt is useless and is there as cannon-fodder for Johnson, Javid is a no-hoper. Despite being a hypocrite and liar, Give is less dumb than the opposition. |
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