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| Doctor Who: Flux • War of the Sontarans, S13E02 | Sontar-HA |
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 7th November 2021, 07:25 PM
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#1
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 ❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160 
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QUOTE During the Crimean War, the Doctor discovers the British army fighting a brutal alien army of Sontarans, as Yaz and Dan are thrown deeper into a battle for survival. So good 
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7th November 2021, 07:44 PM
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#2
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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I'm astounded. The 1st episode of this series was good, but this one was even better. The first truly fearful Sontarians since David Tennant's era with a solid story, full of laughs throughout (with John Bishop's wok being a highlight), and features a great use of the continuing Doctor Who trope of a morally conflicted human character who acts in a way that's just as bad as the aliens he seeks to defeat. The subplot with Yaz & the Flux wasn't as engaging, although as it is part of the overall series arc I can let it slide. I don't know why Chibnall has waited until the 3rd series of his era to start getting things right, but so far I'm all for it.
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7th November 2021, 07:46 PM
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#3
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
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Bit of a deviation from the overall storyline but nice to play with the effects of the Flux and how some familiar faces would seek to take advantage of that. It means we still get that classic Doctor Who episode but it still fits within the overall scope of this series.
I’ve never been a huge fan of the Sontarans as they can be a bit one note but this was definitely a strong story for them, using them for their actual purpose and they were involved in a proper battle for the first time! I loved the setting and Mary Seacole was a great addition, a historical figure I admit I had no awareness of beforehand! It was also one of Thirteenth/Jodie’s best episodes. It makes a huge difference when she’s allowed to be the Doctor and not just a vehicle for technobabble exposition. It was a good episode for Dan too, getting to play a stronger companion role than Ryan or Graham ever did oops. His parents were great too, although a shame they just got dropped halfway through! Swarm and Azure are incredible, such a threatening force and they could be up there with the show’s very best if this continues! It was during their scenes where I was most hooked! Really strong start overall and I’m just hyped as to where this series will go. I’m so intrigued by Time and what is happening to the TARDIS…. |
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7th November 2021, 07:49 PM
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#4
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❤️❤️➕🟦
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The show has never looked so good as well, some of those CGI shots were superb!!!
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7th November 2021, 08:48 PM
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#5
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 27 August 2008
Posts: 7,381 User: 6,928
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Thought Doctor Who was brilliant tonight, best story to feature the Sontarans in a while.
This series hasn't been too bad and i think Jodi will go out on a high. |
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7th November 2021, 08:54 PM
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#6
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,833 User: 17,376
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well, sadly, I'm very much of the opposite opinion here to everyone above.
Things I liked: The big budget Liverpool. Can't lose with Liverpool, one of me 'omes from 'ome. The gorgeous Raleigh Ritchie/Jacob Anderson getting some acting work again. Things I hated: The script. Just so, so, so bad - I won't bother destroying it bit by bit, line by line, but it all comes down to terrible logic, both in the plot and in characters and the hackney dialogue. It's like one of the tacky 70's scripts let loose on a big budget movie. I just kept going "Noooooooo!" everytime another idiotic thing happened. "The Sontarans invade time, somehow, God knows how they got this sudden massive power unless it's to do with the other plot chucked into the mix with the 2 snooty multi-coloured cheekboned aliens, and what do they do? They invade Earth throughout history to destroy history. Just because. They only had to go back to any point in the previous 1 billion years and destroy all life. Job done. I mean, I know they enjoy a fight and all, but really. Mortal enemy The Doctor. She walks off and they don't bother to go and kill her and everyone in the hospital, even as she walks off. THEY LOVE KILLING! The Doctor gives in to a gun, despite a sonic screwdriver and apparently some fab new drug injection that makes people go to sleep until it's too late to stop the effing bloodshed and dump the commander. Popular in a club near you.. and then she moans about the cliche moron upper class twit blowing up the baddies trying to destroy all humans to deflect the blame from her own lack of judgement and slow thinking. The dog jumps in suddenly to the rescue from nowhere. A nurse that pisses off and leaves her patients (she's the only member of staff apparently) just cos the Doc fancies putting someone else in the line of fire, and for no other good reason. Dan handily gives a running commentary while filming in a spaceship trying to stay quiet and hidden." Tip of the iceberg there. Terrible, terrible script. |
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7th November 2021, 09:00 PM
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#7
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 you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,738 User: 13,530 
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This series is really hitting the spot for me so far! The Sontarans were excellent and I think this was one of Jodie's best performances so far, helped by more competent writing. LOVE that the TARDIS team got split up so we could see them all shine in different ways! Dan really impressing me so far. Swarm and Azure are f***ing terrifying and I LOVE them!!
So excited for next week! |
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7th November 2021, 09:06 PM
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#8
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160
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Remember this is an episode specific thread so spoilers for the episode are allowed without tags after the episode has aired
 QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Nov 7 2021, 08:54 PM)  The Doctor […] apparently some fab new drug injection that makes people go to sleep Something the Third Doctor did all the time  and the Sontarans ability to invade time is due to taking advantage of the Flux! |
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7th November 2021, 10:41 PM
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#9
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nabad
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 13 February 2013 Posts: 28,374 User: 18,316
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Nov 7 2021, 08:54 PM) well, sadly, I'm very much of the opposite opinion here to everyone above. Things I liked: The big budget Liverpool. Can't lose with Liverpool, one of me 'omes from 'ome. The gorgeous Raleigh Ritchie/Jacob Anderson getting some acting work again. Things I hated: The script. Just so, so, so bad - I won't bother destroying it bit by bit, line by line, but it all comes down to terrible logic, both in the plot and in characters and the hackney dialogue. It's like one of the tacky 70's scripts let loose on a big budget movie. I just kept going "Noooooooo!" everytime another idiotic thing happened. "The Sontarans invade time, somehow, God knows how they got this sudden massive power unless it's to do with the other plot chucked into the mix with the 2 snooty multi-coloured cheekboned aliens, and what do they do? They invade Earth throughout history to destroy history. Just because. They only had to go back to any point in the previous 1 billion years and destroy all life. Job done. I mean, I know they enjoy a fight and all, but really. Mortal enemy The Doctor. She walks off and they don't bother to go and kill her and everyone in the hospital, even as she walks off. THEY LOVE KILLING! The Doctor gives in to a gun, despite a sonic screwdriver and apparently some fab new drug injection that makes people go to sleep until it's too late to stop the effing bloodshed and dump the commander. Popular in a club near you.. and then she moans about the cliche moron upper class twit blowing up the baddies trying to destroy all humans to deflect the blame from her own lack of judgement and slow thinking. The dog jumps in suddenly to the rescue from nowhere. A nurse that pisses off and leaves her patients (she's the only member of staff apparently) just cos the Doc fancies putting someone else in the line of fire, and for no other good reason. Dan handily gives a running commentary while filming in a spaceship trying to stay quiet and hidden." Tip of the iceberg there. Terrible, terrible script. Was it really a "terrible" script though, or are you just forgetting / not understanding a lot of Doctor Who's lore and what's actually happened thus far in the series? Like Klaus has already pointed out, the Doctor 'injecting people and putting them to sleep' isn't something new - nor was she injecting them. Venusian aikido was something the 3rd Doctor used a fair bit, and it's something that's been used a fair few times in 13's era too - was quite a nice callback that perhaps, yes, did conveniently move the story along when it needed to, but not random or Chibnall just creating something fanciful from nowhere. The Sontarans have invaded time before... in the classic story quite literally titled The Invasion of Time, so I don't understand how that concept is so far-fetched? As for the comment about Swarm and Azure being able to choose literally any other point in history to destroy time... I don't know if some people just aren't paying attention for the sake of it or are trying to find fault with the story and the scripts because it's been the done thing with Chibnall's era thus far, but certainly what I've picked up from Swarm's interactions with the Doctor (see: episode 1) is that he has done it before a long time ago, and now he's doing it again. Karvanista's race have literally been shielding Earth from the Flux, so does it really come as much of a surprise that when something's happening down on Earth Karvanista is able to track down Dan and... do what he's supposed to do and protect him? It really does seem like people want the show to fail just one last time before RTD comes back to save the day, despite this seriously setting itself up to be a crowning achievement for Chibnall. Granted, it's a bit late in the day for him to be delivering something as epic and fantastic as this given he's had two attempts prior, but he's really delivering on all fronts now, and then some. For me this has the potential to go down as one of the best series' of NuWho we've had - it's got so much going for it and I'm just hoping that the resolution is satisfying and everything ties together well because what we've seen so far has been incredible. The chemistry between the Doctor, Yaz and Dan is amazing. Something feels different about Jodie this time around, like she's finally 'arrived' as the Doctor and I fully believe her in every way, and all the different plot strands have me hooked. The villains are interesting, the fan service is paying off, and the scripts seem much, much tighter than the last two series. |
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7th November 2021, 10:55 PM
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#10
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
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Let’s not forget this is a show where, amongst many things, its logic includes the TARDIS dragging the Earth halfway across the universe and the result on Earth was only a few minor shakes <3
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7th November 2021, 11:06 PM
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#11
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 13 May 2018 Posts: 2,323 User: 72,030
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I'm really loving this series so far, which is surprising giving the quality of the last few. I'm excited to see how the rest of the episodes play out and hope they've thought the story through properly.
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8th November 2021, 06:01 PM
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#12
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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I've not got a problem with tech-macguffins that advance the plot and I've not been slagging off this era previously as such (just not been that impressed), but my logic remains true - if you can invade time in multiple timezones you just go back further and do it properly. If you want to kill mortal enemy The Doctor you don't let her walk off while engaging in chit chat boo yahs. If you have a sleepy-by device you use it immediately on the bloke in charge not the minion after the event: Oh sir something on your collar!
The golden rule for Deus Ex Machina is that it should be set up convincingly in the script or else it's just a "and x drops by and saves them all" annoying. The dog-saviour, that is. It's lazy writing, or bad editing. Yes, it's logical to be following Dan, but it should be explained how he did that and came to land/transport/whatever in the middle of a Sontaran invasion that can be defeated by a wok and badly landed spaceships and a habit of a racial-wide sleepy-bye time. I think the pace and flashiness and a few one-liners to pump it up a bit isn;t as good as previous more thoughtful episodes like the Rosa Parkes one, and some others... Sorry, just my opinion though... 
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8th November 2021, 06:23 PM
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#13
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,738 User: 13,530
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3.96m last night, a drop as always after episode 1 but not a bad figure providing it can stabilise from here on out!
To put this into context with the declining ratings across the board, the average share of people watching Doctor Who based on the overnight figures of series 12 was 20.40%. The two episodes so far in series 13 have averaged 25.15%, so basically all is good! (especially knowing the show's future is in very safe hands regardless and there are active plans beyond series 13). |
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8th November 2021, 07:11 PM
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#14
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160
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Yeh I’m interested in viewing figures but nowhere near as bothered this time around as we know it’s got a secure future. Obviously it would be worrying if they were abysmally low but if they’re solid enough, I’m just gonna enjoy watching!
QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Nov 8 2021, 06:01 PM) I've not got a problem with tech-macguffins that advance the plot and I've not been slagging off this era previously as such (just not been that impressed), but my logic remains true - if you can invade time in multiple timezones you just go back further and do it properly In terms of this point, the whole character of the Sontarans is that they crave battle and so just going back to kill human #1 isn’t a proper battle for them, it’s essentially a cheat code. They want a proper victory and getting that through endless battles throughout time is perfect for them and what they ultimately exist for. It’s why the Series 4 Sontaran story is a bit weaker imo as their plan doesn’t involve any form of actual battle and is a bit of a cheat for them. |
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8th November 2021, 11:09 PM
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#15
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 The owls are not what they seem
Pronouns: He/him
Joined: 11 July 2009 Posts: 37,130 User: 9,232
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Yeah, the Sontarans are made for war, they love it for the sport, it makes sense to go back to a time where they can be dominant. That didn't strike me as out of character/bad writing (not that there wasn't a few inconsistencies, why did the Doctor get so annoyed when the general blew up the ships when...Dan literally just did the same thing? Shame as the former was definitely very much in character).
I thought it was a great episode otherwise though and definitely one of the best of the Chibnall era, it felt a little bit more focused and less like a trailer this time and I agree The Sontarans were actually threatening this time, I think the overuse of Strax in Moffat's era made them seem a bit less threatening! I actually thought the set-up of the Time ship was great and the lack of technobabble made it very intriguing. Dan's parts weren't as interesting and felt a little too convenient and exposition-heavy, but loved the Doctor and Mary Seacole, was a very good episode for Whittaker. Next week's looks a lot vaguer (I hope they do something a bit different with the Cybermen given we've just seen them), I certainly hope it can keep up the pace (and maybe give us a few answers!) |
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9th November 2021, 01:03 AM
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#16
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Mansonette
Joined: 3 November 2009
Posts: 6,931 User: 9,872
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I wasn't going to bother with this series (which would be the first time since I largely ignored McCoy's era on its original run), mainly because I think the last two series were poor overall. However, due to boredom and some positive word of mouth I just watched both episodes.
The show still suffers from being made by the BBC but Jodie finally has something decent to work with and the scope of the show is allowing the events and characters room to breathe and develop. I never thought Chibnall had it in him. Actually enjoying everything about the show this year for the first time in a while. And whoever said the Sontarans using time travel was odd might like to know they used time travel in two of their first three stories including an invasion of Gallifrey. It's not really new for them. |
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9th November 2021, 01:37 PM
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#17
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,100 User: 18,639
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My lord, what a MESS. Chibnab cannot write for toffee. The plot made no sense and was littered with inconsistencies and contradictions. Those two death figures are the worst villains I have ever seen too. More later.
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9th November 2021, 01:51 PM
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#18
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
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QUOTE(Coffin A Feel @ Nov 9 2021, 01:37 PM) My lord, what a MESS. Chibnab cannot write for toffee. The plot made no sense and was littered with inconsistencies and contradictions. Those two death figures are the worst villains I have ever seen too. More later. 
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11th November 2021, 07:10 PM
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#19
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,833 User: 17,376
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Sontarans hunger for battle - and yet they are happy to impose curfews and execute people and shoot Dan - but not The Doctor. I mean, this is not being consistent. Sontarans are smart enough to take advantage of The Flux (whatever that is), have space travel, advanced weapons etc. yet are also moronically stupid to all hibernate at the same time, line up their spaceships all eggs in one basket, have a Wok weakness, and make the same mistakes time literally after time invading Earth and letting The Doctor stop them at every opportunity. They have always been a half-assed villain, Strax being the only (fab) rounded character ever. The rest are just one-dimensional. I didn't like them when I was 15 and I still don't - so at least I'm demonstrating a bit more consistency than the script
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11th November 2021, 07:23 PM
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#20
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Mansonette
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 35,311 User: 54
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I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't consider whether things are possible in these types of shows - I find it hard to assess when it's a show about time travel and aliens!
Anyway, I'm enjoying it all so far. It definitely is benefitting from the new format, there's still a lot going on and a lot of characters but they actually have the room to develop and progress now. |
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