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 Victoria Beckham - 'Victoria Beckham' (VB), 2001 • 1st Album / 21st Anniversary |
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 11th February 2021, 05:04 PM
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#41
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
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QUOTE(Mr.X @ Dec 6 2020, 06:10 PM)  I did say working class women for a reason. The British press always has an agenda towards women and specially black, trans and/or working class women at that. Often the press likes to bring them up and then, once they get huge success, bring them down. Its the modem operandum by the British press specifically and the Spice Girls as a group and as solo artists are a clear example of that. That is not to say that other artists of other genders didnt get treated like that too, but you have to contextualize this case in point. There was a really interesting study not long ago about British female solo artists and the way the industry and press treats them, and I will try and hunt it down again as it was very interesting. Like, besides Melanie C, how many British solo pop artists have managed to release 8 solo albums whilst facing relentless criticism? Not many. Most dont go beyond album #2 or #3 because of the way that the industry and press treat them. Melanie is a resilient person and a multi-millionaire so she can do better than most in that regards, and doesnt need 'the industry' money to support her releases. But most in her position cant say the same. I find this an interesting post because while I agree there is a lot of sexism towards women in general and working class women even more so from the press, I don't necessarily feel that female band members have worse luck when it comes to solo careers. There's the obvious Beyonce, Diana Ross, Cher and Tina Turner who went on to have huge solo careers worldwide, but then the likes of Belinda Carlisle, Kelly Rowland, Louise, Camila Cabello, Cheryl Cole, Geri, Melanie C, Rachel Stevens and Siobhan Fahey who went on to have success after their bands with at least one platinum album and there a whole host of other female artists who had solo hit singles or released solo album to differeing degrees of success Emma Bunton, Victoria Beckham, Melanie B, Lisa Scott Lee, Claire Richards, Jo O Mera, Liz McClarnon, Kimberley Walsh, Nicola Scherzinger, Nadine Coyle, Nicola Roberts, Una Healy... If anything when you look at mixed pop bands it's the female artists that have had the opportunity of solo success Rachel Stevens was the one who released 2 albums and had some hits singles in S Club 7, Jo might have flopped but she put an album out, Hannah went into acting quite successfully, the boys didn't get anything. Same for Steps Faye released a single, Lisa got a record deal and released a few singles, Claire teamed up with H but got a record deal on her own years later, H and Lee got nothing. I totally agree about the press being disgusting though. |
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12th February 2021, 12:31 AM
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#42
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 BuzzJack Enthusiast
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QUOTE(Spice Girls Net @ Feb 11 2021, 12:40 PM) 2002 was quite a depressing year in Spiceworld. There was no group activity and apart from Victoria’s one release, there was no other music from any of them. Between 1996-2001 we were spoiled really with group and solo releases. It’s mad to think how busy 2001 was in comparison to 2002 which was just....  Geri on Popstars the Rivals  Its a pity she didn’t release a new single around that time but I do respect her for not making her judging role about her and the show got all her focus. I still feel so proud of Geri for being involved in the creation of Girls Aloud. I feel many forget she was.  As for AMOIO I dont mind it, it just wasn't the right choice for second single. |
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13th February 2021, 04:40 PM
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#43
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BuzzJack Regular
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Had the album sold better, I always thought a singles run of NSAIG - Mind Of Its Own - I Wish - IOU made the most sense. Maybe an IOU/Like That double single for the fourth and final release.
But because the album and NSAIG performed below exceptionally high expectations, I do think the wisest course of action would have been to launch the album's best song as the second single...I Wish. If you've seemingly got just one more chance, go for broke, right? I do like Mind Of Its Own, though. I think the chorus is rather strong. People tend to be split over the spoken word bits...but I actually like that. To me, it not only works, it separates this single from the other more adult contemporary solo Spice singles of the time. Makes it unique. And even though I'd rather she released I Wish, I do understand the logic of going for Mind Of Its Own. The Spices were very good at releasing singles that showed the different sides of the group. Mind Of Its Own successfully showed us a different side of Victoria from the previous two singles. It was also the song she would be able to perform live the best. And after the intense choreography of the previous singles, maybe some live performances was the right way to go. |
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13th February 2021, 04:56 PM
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#44
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BuzzJack Regular
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Side note. While I consider I Wish the best thing Victoria recorded solo...and think it's criminal she never released it, I do think that duet version (which was supposedly going to be the single) was a total disaster. Her duet partner (can't remember the name...) is singing circles around her, using this opportunity as a vocal showcase...seemingly unaware that Victoria's cool, straightforward delivery is a large part of the song's appeal. His vocals could not sound more obviously tacked on. The added production elements are beyond unnecessary and are too quirky...interrupting the song's groove and making it very start-stop and awkward.
Had they released this duet, it would have been the worst solo Spice single to that point by far. Actually, with the exception of Cosmic Shower (if that counts), I'm not sure there's a solo Spice single just in general that's worse than the I Wish duet... |
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13th February 2021, 06:00 PM
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#45
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
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QUOTE(Piers @ Feb 13 2021, 05:56 PM) Side note. While I consider I Wish the best thing Victoria recorded solo...and think it's criminal she never released it, I do think that duet version (which was supposedly going to be the single) was a total disaster. Her duet partner (can't remember the name...) is singing circles around her, using this opportunity as a vocal showcase...seemingly unaware that Victoria's cool, straightforward delivery is a large part of the song's appeal. His vocals could not sound more obviously tacked on. The added production elements are beyond unnecessary and are too quirky...interrupting the song's groove and making it very start-stop and awkward. Had they released this duet, it would have been the worst solo Spice single to that point by far. Actually, with the exception of Cosmic Shower (if that counts), I'm not sure there's a solo Spice single just in general that's worse than the I Wish duet... Robbie Craig... for whatever reason they pushed him on there and I have no idea why? He was an unknown and if they actually had gone ahead with the single release it was her make-or-break single, so it was odd that they'd potentially waste it on him. He's apparently in East 17 these days though. |
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13th February 2021, 06:31 PM
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#46
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BuzzJack Regular
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QUOTE(tommie @ Feb 13 2021, 01:00 PM) Robbie Craig... for whatever reason they pushed him on there and I have no idea why? He was an unknown and if they actually had gone ahead with the single release it was her make-or-break single, so it was odd that they'd potentially waste it on him. Yeah. Agreed. I do see the logic of the duet on paper. I'm sure the powers-that-be were very well aware that Mel C had completely turned her album's fortunes around...releasing a single version of her 3rd release off Northern Star that was a bit different than what was on the album (and then a fourth release that completely transformed the album version of the song). I'm sure that also played a role in the remix given to Emma's We're Not Gonna Sleep Tonight...which I think is 'fine'...but I find the album version to have more punch. Anyway. I think the inherent problem is...if there were ever a song that fit Victoria to a T, it was I Wish. It's perhaps a bit surprising that it's one of that album's tracks that she didn't have a hand in writing. I honestly can't imagine that song fitting anyone else better. And because of that, I don't think a duet with someone else was ever going to work. |
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14th February 2021, 12:00 AM
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#47
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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Oh Gosh I had forgotten about Robbie Craig. When it was announced and leaked, it was so dissapointing. Her best song released. Yes, I totally see why they wanted a duet but that was a terrible pairing. He was completely unknown and a total mismatch, no wonder they decided to can it. Plus that performance of it they did was just awful.
Never cared for A Mind of It's Own. I appreciate how you refer to it is as quite original - and it is - but for me it doesnt sound very good at all. I sounds expensive but not totally 'there' for me. For me, a perfect singles run would have been I Wish followed by Midnight Fantasy, then IOU and finish with Like That. And Out of Your Mind should have been on the album, maybe as a bonus track? Sonically it would suit it specially with MF and Girlfriend in there too... |
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14th February 2021, 06:42 AM
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#48
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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Robbie Craig was known for being the male vocalist on a few Artful Dodger songs. Woman Trouble was the biggest i think.
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17th February 2021, 01:42 PM
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#49
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
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I listened to this album again last night. The last time I did, I cpuldn't get through it as it was so dated, and it had that early 2000 wannabe-futuristic vocalisers. However, I enjoyed the retro stuff last night, backnto music when people didn't know how to twerk, ans it was a good album!
I was getting minor no.1 vibes from Like That and I Wish!! She should have kept NSAIG for a second or third POP album maybe making the second the rnb one with Damon Dash, and gone full trap pop hop for this one. As for the singles run: 1. OOYM - released 3 or 4 weeks earlier or 2 weeks later. If they really wanted to stop Madonna from a no.1, then one week later. Imagine her starting out seen as a winner over the queen of pop, rsther than seen as uncool and killing her album stone dead. 2. Like That - it's really catchy! 3. I Wish - as a duet with Dane Bowers, but with FAR better vocal mixing to combine them both. 4. WYTA - just to further establish herself as rnb Spice. I would add a feature, like a Missy Elliot rap, or even a Mel B rap, etc. 5. IOU - finish with a ballad in winter. Second album: 1. Love Is For Real 2. This Groove 3. Another rnb/ hip pop/ hip hop song Third album: 1. Not Such An Innocent Girl 2. Let Your Head Go 3. Another pop song. 3 albums, probably 2 or 3 no.1s - OOYM, Like That, I Wish, Love Is For Real - and a successful solo career up there with Geri or Mel C. She had the most potential - look at OOYM's sales. People weren't snappin it up for Dane Bowers! She just needed better material and a better run of singles. |
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17th February 2021, 01:59 PM
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#50
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 6 September 2017
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QUOTE(Dill Doe @ Feb 17 2021, 01:42 PM) I listened to this album again last night. The last time I did, I cpuldn't get through it as it was so dated, and it had that early 2000 wannabe-futuristic vocalisers. However, I enjoyed the retro stuff last night, backnto music when people didn't know how to twerk, ans it was a good album! I was getting minor no.1 vibes from Like That and I Wish!! She should have kept NSAIG for a second or third POP album maybe making the second the rnb one with Damon Dash, and gone full trap pop hop for this one. As for the singles run: 1. OOYM - released 3 or 4 weeks earlier or 2 weeks later. If they really wanted to stop Madonna from a no.1, then one week later. Imagine her starting out seen as a winner over the queen of pop, rsther than seen as uncool and killing her album stone dead. 2. Like That - it's really catchy! 3. I Wish - as a duet with Dane Bowers, but with FAR better vocal mixing to combine them both. 4. WYTA - just to further establish herself as rnb Spice. I would add a festure, like a Missy Elliot rap, or even a Mel B rap, etc. 5. IOU - finish with a ballad in winter. Second album: 1. Love Is For Real 2. This Groove 3. Another rnb/ hip pop/ hip hop song Third album: 1. Not Such An Innocent Girl 2. Let Your Head Go 3. Another pop song. 3 albums, probably 2 or 3 no.1s - OOYM, Like That, I Wish, Love Is For Real - and a successful solo career up there with Geri or Mel C. She had the most potential - look at OOYM's sales. People weren't snappin ir up for Dane Bowers! She just needed better material and a better run of singles. Love these ideas apart from Not such an innocent girl, just forget about that song it's an album track at best. However unless she released the album in 1999 I don't think her success would have been up there with Geri and Melanie, part of the reason they did so well is they struck when the iron was hot, Emma and Victoria waited too long. I mean What took you so long would have rivalled I turn to you sales in 1999 I'm sure (although IRM did surpass all but one solo single in 2001 I guess...) This post has been edited by spiceboy: 17th February 2021, 02:01 PM |
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17th September 2021, 07:58 PM
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#51
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 "Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
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Not Such an Innocent Girl was released 20 years ago today
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17th September 2021, 08:52 PM
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#52
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 16 November 2006
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Love this song , and back in the day I was amazed by the video.
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17th September 2021, 09:08 PM
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#53
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 6 September 2017
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I never gelled with this song.
I have always thought Midnight Fantasy was the one. |
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17th September 2021, 09:39 PM
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#54
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 6 September 2017
Posts: 11,838 User: 39,568
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Truly the wrong single to launch her solo album with! Listening to it now it's actually not that bad, has a good melody but the lyrics are cringe... if it had different lyrics / theme I think it could have been bigger.
Midnight fantasy should have opened the album followed by Like that. |
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18th September 2021, 07:29 AM
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#55
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,083 User: 18,639
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TWENTY f***ING YEARS!!!! :,O
Always loved this song and the video. I've got a secret rose tattoo I'm dying just to show you... She should have got a nom1 with OOYM and then all pressure would have been off. We need ro get OOFYM to no.1 with q campaign!!! It truly deserves it. |
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1st October 2021, 07:39 PM
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#56
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BuzzJack Gold Member
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1st October 2021, 08:25 PM
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#57
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 September 2017
Posts: 5,085 User: 39,587
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QUOTE(Spice Girls Net @ Oct 1 2021, 08:39 PM) A fantastic debut 
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2nd October 2021, 02:22 PM
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#58
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 16 November 2009
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It's just a terrible album tbh. The ballads are just rubbish, I think I like 3 songs from it.
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2nd October 2021, 02:48 PM
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#59
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
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This, A Girl Like Me, This Time / Stages, and LA State Of Mind never happened. I always pretend they never happened. What a pity she didn’t get to release her next album, it was going to be good.
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2nd October 2021, 08:30 PM
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#60
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 September 2017
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I think the album isn't perfect but it is great! Songs like Not That Kind of Girl, Girlfriend, Whatchu Talkin Bout?, Like That, I Wish and No Trix, No Games are pure class.
Yeah the ballads drag it down, but honestly? That is pretty much where they always mostly failed at solo music (bar a few Mel C and Emma ballads, obvs). Vic should have focused on the r'n'b tone of the album and leave pish like I.O.U and Every Little Part of Me out of this album. They are too soppy and uninteresting. Beyond that, the cover was terrible - WHY THE PANTHER, WHY?!??! - and the singles ruined it's potential, sadly... |
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