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 European Election Thread 2019, EU, baby. |
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 27th May 2019, 01:35 AM
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#241
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 is in hibernation
Joined: 24 August 2014
Posts: 11,385 User: 21,161 
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I don't think the BBC are pro-Brexit. A lot of remainers think they are, but I'm sure if you asked leave voters most of them would say it's pro-remain. That both sides think they're biased against them shows they're doing the right thing, imo.
Pleased at how well the Greens have done nationwide, surprised they didn't really move in Scotland though. Also delighted at the Lib Dem's performance, they're c*nts in Scotland but I like the rUK party so nm aha |
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27th May 2019, 02:30 AM
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#242
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929              |
QUOTE(Andrew. @ May 27 2019, 01:35 AM)  I don't think the BBC are pro-Brexit. A lot of remainers think they are, but I'm sure if you asked leave voters most of them would say it's pro-remain. That both sides think they're biased against them shows they're doing the right thing, imo. Pleased at how well the Greens have done nationwide, surprised they didn't really move in Scotland though. Also delighted at the Lib Dem's performance, they're c*nts in Scotland but I like the rUK party so nm aha The overarching problem with the BBC isn't that they are pro-Brexit, although too many of their top political people clearly lean that way, it's that in their relentless pursuit of neutrality they give equal weight to both sides even when one side is clearly far less credible than the other. They don't push some guests enough, and they push some guests, like Emily Thornberry earlier tonight, too far. On the other hand, when I first tuned in they gave a good interview to Ed Davey where he was challenged and gave him good opportunity to respond. There is a problem, but it's not there all the time. The worst thing is their choice of guests, whoever they are, it legitimizes their outloook and sets the stage for the argument where it perhaps shouldn't be. But in any case, tonight's example they showcased Brexit Party acceptance speeches tonight with none of those, that I saw, from Lib Dem or Green MEP acceptances. So Anne Widdecombe et al got to peddle their nonsense acceptance speech rhetoric on a political programme, but others did not. |
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27th May 2019, 02:52 AM
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#243
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929 |
On wider Europe, I'm amused to discover that beyond the old Europe For Freedom And Democracy (EFD, old UKIP alliance, now Brexit Party) reinvented itself slightly by adding 'Direct' to its name to show its support for controversial binary referenda, and the founded in 2014 Europe For Nations And Freedom (ENF, nu-UKIP), where all the racist right-wing nuts fled after EFD wasn't eurosceptic enough for them, that Lega Nord and Front National have been creating yet another group.
European Alliance Of People And Nations, yet more bluster contained within a title to disguise what they are. New anti-immigration wing of the European Parliament, and considering how well those two parties seem to have done in the elections, a reasonably significant one. But yes, Front National out in front in France, with En Marche's alliance fairly close behind. Lega Nord dominating in Italy. Germany looks much more sane with Merkel's CDU for the EPP leading for now, while Spain has their S&D reps leading, PSOE. Labour/social democrat parties leading in Netherlands and Sweden too. Not certain if these are final results yet, but quite differing pictures in each country. |
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27th May 2019, 03:05 AM
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#244
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929 |
And just like that found a full projection result:
https://europeelects.eu/ep2019/ EPP - centre-right - 165 (down 56) S&D - centre-left - 141 (down 50) ALDE - liberals - 115 (up 48) Greens-EFA - green - 75 (up 25) ENF/EAPD - right-wing - 74 (up 37) ECR - conservatives - 57 (down 13) GUE-NGL - left-wing - 42 (down 10) EFDD - populists - 0 (down 48)* Non-Inscrits - nazis, satirists, communists - 13 (down 2)** *Brexit Party is officially unaffiliated right now, and UKIP did make up the bulk of this grouping, so they may join this or the new EAPD, or may remain unaffiliated because of impending withdrawal, who knows really? **yes, this is included in the source, MEPs who are too controversial to be part of any political group So, great results for liberals and green across Europe, right-wingers basically swallowing the populists into their new grouping to show a modest increase, a rejection of traditional centre-left and centre-right parties, which is somewhat surprising as I thought that continent-wide, S&D were going to sweep ahead of EPP into pole position, but looking at the largest groupings in each country, outside of Iberia and Sweden, it is still EPP which is the largest grouping in most of the smaller nations. |
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27th May 2019, 07:03 AM
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#245
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 Bitch of t seet
Joined: 2 April 2012
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I'm so happy with these results! It seems the people are opening their eyes regarding climate change and the mess that is Brexit prevented the EU sceptics to become even bigger. So we partly have y'all to thank I guess
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27th May 2019, 07:41 AM
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#246
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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So, what I take from these results:
Remain parties easily outdid Brexit parties in votes. Bearing in mind how rabidly they vote, Brexit didn;t have a convincing message to leave with no deal despite all they are hyped-up claiming, farage with his usual post-election hard-on mouth frothing. The Farage Fan Club (The FFC's) have basically just changed name and added in a few Tories. Labour haven't added to their totals, despite claims to the contrary, because most former-Labour voters switched back in 2014 to UKIP - that's what happened to all the people I know who were former Labour voters, and voted UKIP. All of the traffic from Labour voters was to Remain parties, and Corbyn has totally lost his authority. Labour either goes full-pelt for a referendum or they are finished as much as Tories, who have also lost voters to Remain parties, but mostly to FFC. If ChUK had done a deal with LIbdems, they would have won more seats and this would have been even more obviously a big gain for Bollocks To Brexit. Only 1/3 voted so.....Brexit parties can sod off if they think that 40% of one-third means they have authority for anything. Only Tories will be cacking their pants over what to do next. Labour's choices are very clear - choose Referendum or die. Brexit supporters arent voting Labour and havent voted Labour for 5 years. They are already lost. Ann Widdecombe wont be turning up on reality TV shows, which is a huge relief that her homophobic views are restricted to a seat she probably wont turn up for, unless it's it's to claim her massive new pension for doing nothing. Loads of Brexit supporters turning up for gold-plated pensions, and doing nothing for their areas as usual, when money is available to be claimed, and the marvellous site of Ress-Frogg's entitled sister getting voted in by former mining-areas is a delicious irony not lost on me. So lost in reasoning that they vote for rich toffs who only want to screw them further down and destroy all workers legislation, end the NHS (quote Farage himself) and make themselves richer. As always, with half of people, the bigger picture is totally lost on them as they get worked up over their own pet peeves believing it will make life better when it won't. |
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27th May 2019, 09:10 AM
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#247
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
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The results basically tell us the country is spilt and without Labour deciding what they want to do, there is no majority for anything. By their in/out policy they have really been given a kicking. I guess the next few days will tell us if they listen or not.
If we have a General Election right now, I don't think it will sort anything. The Tories (unless they get a Hard-Brexiteer) and Labour will take a hammering. Both will need coalition partners. Labour HAVE to come out now and support a 2nd referendum be it on the back of a general alection win or before. Lib Dems and ChUK will merge or form an alliance. I think if you looked at the data too, a lot of the lost Tory votes actually went to the Remain parties too. Which again, if you are a strategiest and have some foresight, pushing ahead with a Hard Brexit might win ahead the support of the Backbenchers, but it will cost them dearly in the long-run. |
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27th May 2019, 09:22 AM
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#248
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,166 User: 5,138
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On the one hand you say if ChUk had done a deal with the LDs they would have won more seats and been an even more gain to the bollocks to Brexit lot then you say they can sod off if 40% of 1/3 who voted for so called No deal parties. You can't interpret it both ways to fit your view.
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27th May 2019, 09:24 AM
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#249
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
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The BBC's coverage last night was shockingly bad. For the first time ever, I switched off and went to bed with several results still undeclared.
If you count the Farage Fanclub as the successor tio UKUP (which, effectively, they are), the big winners were the Lib Dems with the Greens also doing very well That was not reflected in the BBC's coverage. The panel at the beginning of the programme had nobody from an unequivocally Remain-supporting party, despite the fact that two of them looked like finishing second and third. The failure at any point to compare the Farage Fanclub with UKIP exaggerated their success and led to them ignoring the more significant shift in votes. |
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27th May 2019, 09:47 AM
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#250
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929 |
QUOTE(Steve201 @ May 27 2019, 09:22 AM) On the one hand you say if ChUk had done a deal with the LDs they would have won more seats and been an even more gain to the bollocks to Brexit lot then you say they can sod off if 40% of 1/3 who voted for so called No deal parties. You can't interpret it both ways to fit your view. European countries generally opt for political alliances in these situations. It is unusual because in most elections, even European parties like this wouldn't do that as they're all aiming for different blocs and power blocs within the European Parliament but none of this election focused at all on what the MEPs will do in their seats beyond surface level. The reason I bring it up is that there was no political savvy reason for Change UK not to form an alliance with the Lib Dems, newly formed, even if some of them weren't liberal, they shared a common goal for what this election was truly going to be about. Talking about that is a matter of effectiveness. I reckon, without doing the maths, that it would have landed the Lib Dems 3-4 more MEPs, putting them rather close in MEP share to the Farage Party. The take away from this is purely that the Eurosceptic lot who voted UKIP last time are still mostly extant and Eurosceptic just with a name-change. Basically everyone else with a strong opinion has deserted the two main parties to prop up smaller, Remain parties. I'm not sure why we can't interpret the popular vote like this: 38-40% (I'm not getting consistent numbers on this but it's around there) - Unambiguous pro-Remain parties (LDs, Greens, SNP, Plaid, CUK) 35% - Unambiguous pro-No-Deal parties (Brexit, UKIP) 22% - Traditional parties that represent voters voting on tribal loyalties/softer Brexit-people's vote stances, no hard conclusions to be drawn from this batch (Lab, Con) The low turnout muddies conclusions for future directions quite a lot but stances like strong No Deal and strong Remain are the sort that inspires turnout. Particularly the former is so insane that I reckon that most of the batch that actually want it did indeed vote for the Brexit Party on Thursday, which means that its total mandate is nowhere near enough that it should be seriously considered by the government. After all, 2014's UKIP vote ended up mattering not one bit on a GE level. |
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27th May 2019, 09:52 AM
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#251
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929 |
Mind, this goddamn interview with Anne Widdecombe is playing on my mind: imagine being from the electoral region that voted this idiot into first place... oh wait, shit. |
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27th May 2019, 09:56 AM
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#252
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WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,604 User: 88
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QUOTE(Iz~ @ May 27 2019, 10:52 AM) Mind, this goddamn interview with Anne Widdecombe is playing on my mind: imagine being from the electoral region that voted this idiot into first place... oh wait, shit. Just a pure populist movement. Say the things they want people to hear, but then have absolutely no idea how to implement ideas. Fortunately for them a large part of out country is stupid so they will lap it up. |
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27th May 2019, 10:09 AM
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#253
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,166 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(Iz~ @ May 27 2019, 10:47 AM) European countries generally opt for political alliances in these situations. It is unusual because in most elections, even European parties like this wouldn't do that as they're all aiming for different blocs and power blocs within the European Parliament but none of this election focused at all on what the MEPs will do in their seats beyond surface level. The reason I bring it up is that there was no political savvy reason for Change UK not to form an alliance with the Lib Dems, newly formed, even if some of them weren't liberal, they shared a common goal for what this election was truly going to be about. Talking about that is a matter of effectiveness. I reckon, without doing the maths, that it would have landed the Lib Dems 3-4 more MEPs, putting them rather close in MEP share to the Farage Party. The take away from this is purely that the Eurosceptic lot who voted UKIP last time are still mostly extant and Eurosceptic just with a name-change. Basically everyone else with a strong opinion has deserted the two main parties to prop up smaller, Remain parties. I'm not sure why we can't interpret the popular vote like this: 38-40% (I'm not getting consistent numbers on this but it's around there) - Unambiguous pro-Remain parties (LDs, Greens, SNP, Plaid, CUK) 35% - Unambiguous pro-No-Deal parties (Brexit, UKIP) 22% - Traditional parties that represent voters voting on tribal loyalties/softer Brexit-people's vote stances, no hard conclusions to be drawn from this batch (Lab, Con) The low turnout muddies conclusions for future directions quite a lot but stances like strong No Deal and strong Remain are the sort that inspires turnout. Particularly the former is so insane that I reckon that most of the batch that actually want it did indeed vote for the Brexit Party on Thursday, which means that its total mandate is nowhere near enough that it should be seriously considered by the government. After all, 2014's UKIP vote ended up mattering not one bit on a GE level. The last sentence is true but post referendum might turnout to be false is stalemate continues although it won't after this result. |
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27th May 2019, 10:29 AM
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#254
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,093 User: 3,474
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Results at the moment are being interpreted to bolster whatever that persons views already are. It’s the ultimate echo chamber election.
A few things are clear though in my opinion Wales is starting to wake up to Plaid and looks like a very polarised Farage vs Leanne future is on the cards England is still a leave country for the most part. Neither main party will recover while living standards are so low Still nobody exploring the narrative that Austerity = leave vote - when that is what appears to be a decisive factor Scotland still firmly a remain country In spite of Ruth’s mooth and the unequivocal backing of the Scottish MSM, the Tories have stood and lost an election on the same platform for 4 votes in a row, and yet they still remain unchallenged in their delusions After 12 years in power, the SNP is clearly not going anywhere. Another election where their vote share has increased vs last time. See also the last holyrood and council elections A green wave shows that at long last people are starting to wake up to environmental issues Labour sitting on the fence over Brexit will ultimately harm it in the GE it craves so badly, that it cannot see that is so frustrating |
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27th May 2019, 10:42 AM
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#255
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,093 User: 3,474
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SNP tweeting 30/32 so it looks like our fundamentalist friends out in the Islands off the northwest have finally got round to counting and have returned the expected SNP win. Should see confirmation shortly of that 3-1-1-1 seat allocation from Alba
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27th May 2019, 11:04 AM
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#256
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,166 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ May 27 2019, 11:29 AM) Results at the moment are being interpreted to bolster whatever that persons views already are. It’s the ultimate echo chamber election. A few things are clear though in my opinion Wales is starting to wake up to Plaid and looks like a very polarised Farage vs Leanne future is on the cards England is still a leave country for the most part. Neither main party will recover while living standards are so low Still nobody exploring the narrative that Austerity = leave vote - when that is what appears to be a decisive factor Scotland still firmly a remain country In spite of Ruth’s mooth and the unequivocal backing of the Scottish MSM, the Tories have stood and lost an election on the same platform for 4 votes in a row, and yet they still remain unchallenged in their delusions After 12 years in power, the SNP is clearly not going anywhere. Another election where their vote share has increased vs last time. See also the last holyrood and council elections A green wave shows that at long last people are starting to wake up to environmental issues Labour sitting on the fence over Brexit will ultimately harm it in the GE it craves so badly, that it cannot see that is so frustrating Leanne? Leanne Wood? Adam Price is the PC leader at present. Be interesting to see if SNP votes here turn into independence votes in a second referendum. I'm not 100% convinced. |
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27th May 2019, 11:07 AM
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#257
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,607 User: 177
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ May 27 2019, 11:29 AM) Results at the moment are being interpreted to bolster whatever that persons views already are. It’s the ultimate echo chamber election. A few things are clear though in my opinion Wales is starting to wake up to Plaid and looks like a very polarised Farage vs Leanne future is on the cards England is still a leave country for the most part. Neither main party will recover while living standards are so low Still nobody exploring the narrative that Austerity = leave vote - when that is what appears to be a decisive factor Scotland still firmly a remain country In spite of Ruth’s mooth and the unequivocal backing of the Scottish MSM, the Tories have stood and lost an election on the same platform for 4 votes in a row, and yet they still remain unchallenged in their delusions After 12 years in power, the SNP is clearly not going anywhere. Another election where their vote share has increased vs last time. See also the last holyrood and council elections A green wave shows that at long last people are starting to wake up to environmental issues Labour sitting on the fence over Brexit will ultimately harm it in the GE it craves so badly, that it cannot see that is so frustrating Leanne isn’t leading Plaid anymore, Adam Price is currently their leader. Leanne is still outspoken on Twitter though so remains an absolute icon. |
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27th May 2019, 11:26 AM
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#258
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
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In South East England Alexandra Phillips was elected twice. There is a Farage Fanclub MEP of that name as well as the newly -installed mayor of Brighton and Hove who was elected as a Green MEP.
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27th May 2019, 11:32 AM
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#259
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,093 User: 3,474
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Aware that Leanne isn’t leader anymore but farage isn’t the leader of the welsh faction that will go forwards at an assembly election either. Didn’t know the new PC guys name but let’s be honest that Plaid are only where they are because of Leanne. She started the journey. Wonder if like Salmond she’ll return for another go in the future
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27th May 2019, 11:43 AM
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#260
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is in hibernation
Joined: 24 August 2014
Posts: 11,385 User: 21,161
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Yeah, all this adding up parties to get a leave/remain vote is a bit...silly, and I’m surprised actual elected officials have been doing it. Where the labour (and to a lesser extent the tories) vote goes for example is just down to however you want to spin it.
QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ May 27 2019, 12:32 PM) Aware that Leanne isn’t leader anymore but farage isn’t the leader of the welsh faction that will go forwards at an assembly election either. Didn’t know the new PC guys name but let’s be honest that Plaid are only where they are because of Leanne. She started the journey. Wonder if like Salmond she’ll return for another go in the future I can’t say I completely agree. Leanne Wood was popular online, mostly with people who could never vote for her but in terms of success at elections Plaid utterly stagnated during her time, despite receiving more coverage and promenince than ever. In five years of leadership she got one good result which was gaining the Rhondda at the welsh assembly but apart from that I’m not sure. |
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