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| OCC: "We will look into the way charts are compiled" |
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 30th March 2017, 06:50 PM
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#221
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 #38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,171 User: 7,561 
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Sorry- I'm totally lost. Yes there is a problem with streaming being double-counted (See my suggestion of DNQing tracks that register <10% paid-for sales), but that doesn't mean we should have had the entirety of Michael Ball and Alfie Boe's album in the Top 40 at Christmas just because a load of arthritic pensioners bought shovel loads of the 'thing' and the technophobes don't know how to stream on the interwebs.
This post has been edited by Doctor Blind: 30th March 2017, 06:50 PM |
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31st March 2017, 11:35 AM
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#222
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,833 User: 17,376
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well speaking on behalf of arthritic pensioners, who are spotify (and its fans) to decide that people who buy music should be excluded from charts because they dont like it? (Ie appeal to 15-year-olds). The charts represent popularity amongst all age groups, that's its function. Take That a core fan group of 100,000? Drake has a core fan group of not far off that. That's more than, say, the latest pop divas have. Can Chainsmokers sell out the O2 for a few nights?
There are all sorts of weays of guaging popularity, includign radio play. Older people listent to radio 2, younger people listent to Spotify Playlists. same thing, minus the chit chat, but with added annoying adverts. Its easy to record stuff of the radio and play it, it's easy to play free music on spotify. Neither are Sales. 10 million people listening to a track on Radio 2 (presumably liked by a good proportion) is as fair a way of judging popularity as a dull track stuck in the middle of a popular Playlist for months on end. Surely the main issue here is that younger music fans love Spotify cos it's free, and they are happy to get to have the charts reflect their music taste (above everyone else's). That's not inclusive, and unfair on music fans who DO spend a fortune on music. The chart system is broken, older are excluded from singles, younger from albums. At the end of the day, Spotify will still be there to use for free (at present), and it doesn't matter whether the listens count or not as far as your enjoyment of free music goes, the playlists will still be there. The artists now excluded from the charts, however, will not get the same amount of free publicity that Spotify-pushed acts get which is bad for new music. That's more important than recording how frequent Ed Sheeran, Drake and Bieber fans listen endlessly to the same tracks month after month. |
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31st March 2017, 12:30 PM
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#223
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 you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,738 User: 13,530 
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QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Mar 31 2017, 12:35 PM)  well speaking on behalf of arthritic pensioners, who are spotify (and its fans) to decide that people who buy music should be excluded from charts because they dont like it? (Ie appeal to 15-year-olds). The charts represent popularity amongst all age groups, that's its function. Take That a core fan group of 100,000? Drake has a core fan group of not far off that. That's more than, say, the latest pop divas have. Can Chainsmokers sell out the O2 for a few nights? People who buy music aren't excluded from the chart though and if you buy a CD, vinyl or download, your sale still counts for over double for what someone's maximum weekly streams can count for (70 maximum per week, divided by 150 is 0.4666...). Obviously Spotify works differently to sales in that you only buy a song once, but you can stream it for weeks on end, but the charts have always catered more towards the younger generation surely, the singles chart at least. It's not like Take That's most recent single has set the singles chart on fire. The Chainsmokers however probably won't sell loads of their album but can get hit single after hit single because that's the type of artist they are. They aren't even comparable as they're entirely different types of artists. QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Mar 31 2017, 12:35 PM) There are all sorts of weays of guaging popularity, includign radio play. Older people listent to radio 2, younger people listent to Spotify Playlists. same thing, minus the chit chat, but with added annoying adverts. Its easy to record stuff of the radio and play it, it's easy to play free music on spotify. Neither are Sales. 10 million people listening to a track on Radio 2 (presumably liked by a good proportion) is as fair a way of judging popularity as a dull track stuck in the middle of a popular Playlist for months on end. There is absolutely no good that can come of radio being included. You can choose to play songs on Spotify, you don't choose what's played on Radio 2, it's not the same at all. If you shuffle a popular playlist, you can still skip if you want, or turn the song off and it won't count. Even if you turn off the radio during a song you dislike, it will still count for the chart. They aren't similar at all. QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Mar 31 2017, 12:35 PM) Surely the main issue here is that younger music fans love Spotify cos it's free, and they are happy to get to have the charts reflect their music taste (above everyone else's). That's not inclusive, and unfair on music fans who DO spend a fortune on music. The chart system is broken, older are excluded from singles, younger from albums. At the end of the day, Spotify will still be there to use for free (at present), and it doesn't matter whether the listens count or not as far as your enjoyment of free music goes, the playlists will still be there. The artists now excluded from the charts, however, will not get the same amount of free publicity that Spotify-pushed acts get which is bad for new music. That's more important than recording how frequent Ed Sheeran, Drake and Bieber fans listen endlessly to the same tracks month after month. I really don't see how it's unfair when sales have a stronger weighting over streams. It just so happens that streaming is incredibly popular while sales are decreasing. I speak as someone who still downloads songs and buys CDs for the record, but I realise that these methods are less popular at the moment and the chart has to reflect that. Having said that, I don't think the chart is flawless right now because it isn't, but if we use Take That as an example, they're definitely more of an album artist than singles unlike Ed Sheeran who is able to capture both audiences with ease. |
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31st March 2017, 01:06 PM
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#224
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 Break the tension
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 88,979 User: 51
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QUOTE(JoséphStyles @ Mar 31 2017, 01:30 PM) You can choose to play songs on Spotify, you don't choose what's played on Radio 2, it's not the same at all. If you shuffle a popular playlist, you can still skip if you want, or turn the song off and it won't count. Even if you turn off the radio during a song you dislike, it will still count for the chart. They aren't similar at all. ... but only if you do that within the first 30 seconds. |
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31st March 2017, 02:18 PM
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#225
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 🔥🚀🔥
Joined: 30 August 2010
Posts: 74,573 User: 11,746
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If you don't like a song you're more likely than not to skip it within the first thirty seconds surely.
If you stream it for more than thirty seconds then you must at least think the song is okay. |
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4th April 2017, 11:49 AM
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#226
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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not if youre doing your homework, dishes, ironing, reading and are engrossed with Spotify playing along obliviously in the background (as my friends do - they don't change the track at all). So it still counts towards sales.
OK, so make Spotify (in their business guise) be made to limit "sales" to one per track and one per album (for every 100 plays) per person and the story ends. One sale one week. Users must have an account and accounts must be monitored as they count the plays. Chart distortion ends.... Re: radio listening - this has been done in the USA for decades. radio is very good at dropping unpopular tracks, so they tend to be geared towarsd big tracks for big audiences (Radio 1 and 2 apart, which are paid for directly by listeners via licence fees and have a mandate to feature non-chart stuff). Don't get me wrong, I dont like the idea of radio-influenced charts anymore than I like spotify-playlist charts, but it's naive to think (and the evidence kinda proves it every christmas) that people switch off tracks that annoy them within 30 seconds. Unless it's appalling, and is innoffensively meh they'll just let it run on to the next one.... Katy Perry is the most-popular track on radio, Sheeran is in decline now (having had a long-run). tens of millions of people heard it on radio last week, so it's still much more popular than it's official charts position would suggest (which is based on streaming-age bias, not sales, where it also popular). There isn't going to be a perfect system. sales have one week preference to streaming, but then it's an actual paid-for SALE. Advert-pushed weekly replays of a track don't bring the same revenue to an artist that sale does, so why should they count more and have a greater say? Sales hits (singles) are largely irrelevant now as far as charts are concerned, even though they aren't catastrophic in total sales (yet) - so the ratio must need adjusting until sales fall to negligable levels historically. |
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4th April 2017, 11:57 AM
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#227
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Break the tension
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 88,979 User: 51
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QUOTE(d♀nG @ Mar 31 2017, 03:18 PM) If you don't like a song you're more likely than not to skip it within the first thirty seconds surely. If you stream it for more than thirty seconds then you must at least think the song is okay. I've accidentally streamed stuff on playlists before because I was too engrossed in something else to change it within 30 seconds, so I can't say I agree with that. This post has been edited by mr_pmt: 4th April 2017, 11:57 AM |
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4th April 2017, 12:03 PM
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#228
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 November 2015
Posts: 33,259 User: 22,665
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I've noticed that Spotify does this thing, if you play some playlist that you made, once it finishes, it starts playing random songs, related to your playlist but not chosen by you...
so now I was listening to this singer-songwriter playlist and when it finished Spotify started playing James Arthur wtf!!! Took me a couple minutes to realise, so I accidentally gave a stream sale to James Arthur although I hate the guy and would never ever listed 
This post has been edited by Bjork: 4th April 2017, 12:04 PM |
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